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Nautilus 1.0 Released Unto The World
Revista do Linux writes "The final (1.0) version of Nautilus was released this morning. Binaries are available for RedHat 6.x and 7.x, everyone else should try the source code. This version includes a "preview" of the Eazel Services, which includes, among other things, a virtual disk. Grab your copy at the Eazel homepage." The download page has RPMs for RH 6.1/2, and 7. They've also got source that you can download as well If you want to check it out before downloading the demo page is pretty cool - but it looks like the server might be a wee bit overtaxed.
You don't get it. The point of online storage is not to be able to use it as a remote drive but as an automated backup system. If I could make a backup of all my configuration files, preferences, source code from the projects I'm working on, personal files, address book, etc. on a daily basis, I'd feel much more at ease if my hard drive dies or something orible happens to my setup.
Mozilla 1.0? I posted that too quick. I meant Eazel 1.0.
"Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design
"Konqueror can do pretty much everything Nautilus does" -- Really? Because Nautilus does everything from ID3 tag reading to folder wallpaper to mind-numbingly watered down (IMHO) newbie settings..
I think a more general and useful thing would be to modify the copy/cut/paste to add an two new features: copy and append to clipboard/cut and append to clipboard (maybe ctrl-shift-c and x?).
The clipboard should be a stack. Every time you cut or copy, it pushes your choice onto the stack. When you paste, it should pop it off, leaving your clipboard as it was before.
This allows: move to A, select files, copy, move to B, select files, copy, move to C, paste, paste.
If you think about it, you realize there is an operation missing: cut is to copy as paste is to ?? (ie you should be able to push something on and either pop it off or copy it off).
To bring linux onto the desktop requires making things simple for first time users, but also giving power users the ability to "get funky".
I haven't used eazel, but as long as it will provide a useable (read visually appealing and easy) default, and still allow power users to use the power of linux, it will be a winner.
Think of the most popular/successful games:
Monopoly
Chess
Simcity
Most card games.
The rules are simple enough to get you started after a few minutes, but if you really want to get into it, the possibilities are endless.
Think of the command line.... dir will work, but dir *.exe
This is where linux will win over windows. At the moment, the possibilities with linux are endless, but the learning curve to get you to where you can really do stuff is steep.
If you can click on the NEXT button, you can do a pretty decent windows default install. Not much you can do with it afterwards, but
Live today. Tomorrow will cost a lot more!
And this group supposedly included a couple of genuises from the original Macintosh development team? Maybe they should have gotten Tog on that team, too.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
I'll save you some time then, galeon is dependent on the gnome libs not just GTK. If you get a chance, check out gnome and galeon, not to mention Red Carpet and evolution.
As hard as you are finding it to believe, I am running (For the second time now) Mozilla 0.8 on an Athlon 750 w/ 128Mb. It is a Redhat 7 box with 2.4.1, XFree86 3.x and KDE 1.
I moved to 0.8 from Netscape 6.0 after the 6.01 "upgrade" disgusted me so much that I felt like setting fire to Netscape project managers.
The User Interface is slow (I frequently see 1 second delays between clicking the mouse and the menu appearing). Yes the HTML engine is fast, and it doesn't reload on window resizing, but the interface is slow and clunky.
When I get the time, I intend to attempt building Galeon (again), however I have no idea how much luck i'll have given that I run KDE and not Gnome.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Whatever anyone else tells you, this is actually an interface to a Network User Environment, according to Nautilus' site.
They plan to use the client as a service point for system administration, by the looks of it.
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
"Damn I can't believe I just said that."
But you are right now that I think about it a bit more. Once you get over the I don't know and can't learn it stage you start to understand just how wrong the winders GUI is but unless you are exposed to something better you never will learn or understand just how bad it is. I think the reason most people fear and avoid the command line is that they have never been exposed to a real shell before. Here at work many people get their first taste of bash and within a week many of them hate the damn winders GUI and command line (or lack of) as much as I do. Once you take the time to learn and use the power I don't think anyone will ever go back.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
Thanks man, right back at ya.
This worked for me thanks!
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
This is a bigger issue. How does the linux community get more windows users to switch? Do we give them a windows-type interface? Look at 1995. Everyone used a mac, OS/2 and win 3.1. Looked nothing like win95. Was it the hype that made people jump on it? Probably. I still found 3.1 more useful, and didn't switch for a year. Many users I know still are not comfortable with windows. So, I guess the only way to get people to switch, is to force them. Then they adjust. Linux needs the PC OEMs. Damn I can't believe I just said that.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
"They can never find the file because it is not very intuitive to start finding in the Windows directory" Huh? Virtually all application programs and recent versions of windows default to the user's "My Documents" directory -- which is essentially a home directory.
Although the general lack of security is kind of annoying (e.g. the whole drive being world writeable), this isn't really a factor in ease-of-use for users who don't know what files and directories are.
I agree 100%. It is my contention that the command line is more intuitive than any GUI. As a program launcher and a file manager it is tough to beat a little xterm window.
Even though I have access to several GUI file managers I don't bother with them. They suck, they are barely functional in my opinion. File management under *nix is infinitely superior to Windows anyway. Users have much less to do as the files are managed right from the start. As opposed to the helter skelter Windows arrangement. Everytime I've had to help users find their lost 'document' reminds me of how poorly arranged Windows is. They can never find the file because it is not very intuitive to start finding in the Windows directory and the whole user paradigm presented by Windows means that many don't even know what a file is let alone having to change the path on the find program. People with this level of knowledge should not have access to a file manager at all. In *nix they will find their 'lost' document right there in their home directory.
The keyboard is the primary input device why not use it?
Imagine an OS without grep. Sad isn't it.
I think a more general and useful thing would be to modify the copy/cut/paste to add an two new features: copy and append to clipboard/cut and append to clipboard (maybe ctrl-shift-c and x?). This would extend the model beyond just file systems, and be very useful in text editing. There are too many times that I paste, just to append to what I copy (then delete what I pasted).
-no broken link
If I need to use something which is either not available for Linux or that it's not good enough on Linux - then either I reboot or I run VMWare with Windows as a guest (I preffer the latter)...
When I use Windows, I never feel the need to switch to Linux to do something I find that I can't do properly in Window. The reverse isn't true. So the question is, why use Linux in the first place?
It's spinning round and round in my head.
apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get... apt-get...
Yours Sincerely, Michael.
Another general comment. I would not call myself one who know much about UNIX shells. I know what BASH is, and know ls, ps -ef | grep whatever, cd, vi, and some other command. My mother on the other hand complains to me when the printer runs out of paper. Similar to the saying "script Kiddy" what is some guys is 53? is he still a script kiddy?
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
this is all fine and dandy. however, i couldn't find any info about debian availability. what's the story, red hat glory?
Stop the brainwash
"Database"? You're being hopelessly generic. Any tree-based filesystem (for instance) is already a database. What do you mean?
But I'm running Mandrake 7.2 which is glibc-2.1. Sadly all the cooker RPMs are for glibc-2.2 and the upgrade comes out with about 50 dependencies. I'm a patient man, I can wait for 8.0.
- Download the installer
- Run it
- Click next
- Read the messge that your distro isn't supported
- Click "finish" after nothing has been installed
- Go to the RPM download section
- Click on each link
- Save each file
- Notice that some of the links are broken
- Give up for now and wait until they provide a plain FTP directory for their stuff instead of a nifty inoperative set of links
Guess it's back to kindergarten for me. I thought that after 7 or 8 years of Linux I'd be able to setup an application. Guess not...May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
Or you could use Red Hat... ;-)
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Conversely, I think one reason some people are GUI-averse is that they have not used Macs.
Windows never caught up and has only been getting worse since Windows 95, while the Linux GUIs before Eazel have been absurdly bad. If that's the basis for judgment, no wonder the judgment is negative. But if you really want to know GUI, go back to the source, the Macintosh.
Tim
PS. And just in case you're wondering, I used csh for years before the Mac even came out. I've never looked back.
OH OH OH!! Microsoft's file manager will browse the web and ftp! We can clone that! We already cloned all the other microsoft applications, why not explorer too? Sometimes I think the only thing that keeps linux afloat is a deep-seated hatred of Microsoft. It's just a software company out to make money... they're not "big brother" or "the software mafia" or anything out to get you.
Prevent linux based DDOS's!
http://linux.denialofservice.org/
Okay, great. But KDE has all that since 2.0:
File browsing & full access on local/ftp/nfs/
SMB browsing w/o write, separate client for that
Previewing of files in window, or edit in repective app
Web browsing (guess where I'm writing this)
they call it konqueror. The look depends on the UI skin... can be as pretty as Eazel.
Greets
Anno
Heck, you should even throw in file revisioning on user-selected files. If something like CVS is already set up on the machine, people are more likely to use it every day.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
...I'm getting more and more suspicious about this tendency of Ximian and Eazel to be so Redhat centric, and especially careless of Mandrake.
Oh, sure Ximian does some support for Debian. Maybe even for Suse. Maybe because Debian and Suse don't really bother Redhat in the long run. Suse is on a declining path (probably not in absolute numbers, but in relative share). Debian is Debian, most of its users will stick with it, but, for the moment, it's not likely to get a market share that can compare with Redhat or Mandrake.
But, how strange, Mandrake is amazingly neglected. That is, the distro that IS a danger for Redhat, which also happens to be by far the easiest to support once you already support Redhat, is, well, "isolated". Since Mandrake is the only distro whose popularity is comparable to Redhat's, it makes no sense. Except that...
All I see on the download page are x86 builds. Where are the builds for Linux on other hardware, such as PowerPC?
Tsk
All I know is I've got 100+ user complaining about the windows OS. To the Linux-guru community these are all John Doe's. I care about those, because I'm being paid to care about them. And what Alternative can I give them? At the moment Win95 *is* the only userfriendly OS. My life would be easier if they all move to Linux. But at the moment this would only be more work for me than less. If the Linux community only aims for people that can use shell scripting and C++, I think we are doing something wrong here.
Didn't someone just post that Nautilus was sluggish? On a 600MHz? I though one of the main concerns of Win95 was that it was to damn slow. I know how fast Win95 is on my 400MHz. Not sluggish.
If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
Come on.. your being irrational about the browser part. Konqueror and eazel both sport fine browsers that are as good as IE. Jason
--------- The 'gui' in 'penguin' is pronounced K-D-E .
You know... in the time you spent typing this post, you could have simply clicked on the link and learned for yourself what Nautilus is.
Do you always need someone to hold your hand?
If you know how something works, you're less likely to screw it up.
Don't make such stupid assumptions in the future. You'll be better for it.
However, if you read my first post - I'm talking about the future of GNOME with Sun/Solaris. If you think that little investment Red Hat made to Eazel was the cat's meow - I think the bottom line with Sun (and HP I think it was, too) will be worth a lot more in the long run.
The Sun/HP news also brings a great deal of visibility to these Open Source projects. I'm sure a lot of people are anxious to see what the deal is.
Mozilla can be found at http://www.mozilla.org.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
One of the biggest misconceptions going around about Linux is that it needs to be easy to install for people to use it. As stated below, the majority of end users aren't even aware that their OS is installed like any other program. More realistically, they believe that elves descended from the magical kingdom of Euripides and installed Windows on their machine :)
I have found Windows to be much more difficult to install than Linux, furthermore most people who want to e-mail a photo of their cat to a relative have never installed Windows before in their life. They simply had it preinstalled for them at the factory where the computer was built, or the store from which they bought it.
And so for the clueless, it does need to be easy to install, because they have Windows pre-installed already.
Linux can be as pretty as and even more pretty than Windows (Checked themes.org recently?) and a majority of the themes cater to the Windows-style button layout, which means people used to Windows can effectively navigate it.
mum and dad need to know about themes.org
Also, if all people want to do is use e-mail, then Linux is a perfect solution. I have a Linux box set up for my mother who is totally ignorant when it comes to computers, but she knows how to use apps like Word and such. She has a Slackware box running a Windows-like theme for Icewm, and uses Netscape, Netscape Mail and WordPerfect without any problems what-so-ever, and without having to come and ask me questions about the interface or about Linux in general. When Evolution is finally released, this gap will be bridged even more so.
I know so many people who've set up boxes for others. Is this doing Linux a favour or not?
On the one hand it increases users, on the other it removes them from the actual process.
It's faster, but still has some oddities (I didn't wake up early enough to join in with the Nautilus Bug Day...bummer).
So far, I have problems with the helper applications; mouse over on sound/music files does nothing, double click yeilds an error message though the 'View as Music' option works like a charm.
Since my system is a frankenstein grouping of parts, I've set up a seperate computer to do a 'clean' install of this on. Till then, the problems I've encountered might be caused by something I've done and not the Gnome/Nautilus folks.
This message was posted using Nautilus (Mozilla web page view) while listening to Bruce Hornsby.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
KDE uses .xvpics as well and is compatable with XV, the best and fastest image viewer that I have used.
-- Remember: Wherever you go, there you are!
What is needed to create a usable system is a usability culture. The primary component of a usability culture is a set of user experience standards to which a set of developers subscribe. The Mac would have gotten nowhere if it had just been the Finder on top of a bunch of command line utilities. All the software for the platform had to adopt the new standard for it to be a friendly platform. Windows 3.1 was a nightmare, even though the file browser was not too bad, until the Windows 95 release created a set of usability standards and developers began to live up to them.
In the case of Eazel, a Linux system with Nautilus installed is a command line system with a nice file browser. That does no one much good. What Eazel needs to do to revolutionize the Linux environment is not just to create some well-designed software (although that's important, just as the Finder, MacPaint and MacWrite were important), but to create a set of standards which other developers adopt to create a solid base of well-designed software for Linux.
I don't see anything to that effect mentioned on their web site, and so I can't help feeling that an opportunity is being lost. Nautilus is an island. We need a continent.
Tim
Take a look at http://www.us.rasterman.com/pages/e.html for some reason it seems that this is where you need to go now for news. I for one love Enlightenment and would never use anything else.
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
I agree. I never understood why my grandma couldn't figure out how to just flip 32 switches into the right position and hit the "store" button like everyone else... I had to get rid of my poor PDP just 'cause she wanted something pointy and clicky...
*sniff*
-Chris
If you need Mozilla 0.8 packages you can find them at: http://people.redhat.com/blizzard/software/
I got the same conflict. After installing 0.8 the installer at least started to download...
Sounds like you want Clippy...that (annoying) paperclip from MSWord, who's always saying "It looks like you're writing a letter! Let me interrupt you and try to get you to use our special "tools" to make your life easier" - when all you've typed is :
Shopping list:
ham
eggs
cheese
bread
While I agree that it would be *nice* if this kind of fuzzy-logic analysis actually worked, the fact of the matter is that it doesn't. "Usability tools" like Clippy just get in the way, and prevent both new users and old hardened veterans from completing their tasks in a timely manner.
Of primary concern is how HORRIBLY tough it is to get RID of the damn thing. Sure, you can "disable" it - but is it just me, or the thing comes back five minutes later? If I don't want to use something, don't shove it down my throat.
I'll take Emacs/Vim/Jed/Joe any day -- If they don't work the way I want them to, I can MAKE them work the way I want them to. (And I don't care if you're a programmer or not...if you WANT something to work differently badly enough, you'll do what it takes to make it work - the learning curve is steep at first, but the rewards are many)
Customizability is more important than "newbie wizard/helpers". If you need a "newbie helper", ask the guy next to you, or go on IRC, or do a search for *** tutorial on google.
Wow- This is a great idea... add a command prompt somewhere on the directory window and get the best of both worlds! It is so simple and "obviously good" that it seems like it should be already a standard feature of all windowing managers today! Leverage the command prompt without losing the graphical interface... It is a merging of "the best of both worlds". Why has this not been widely done? And if someone has done it, where can I find this file manager?
I miss the Karma Whores.
So what if we run FreeBSD (and let's for a moment assume there isn't Linux binary compatibility) or Solaris? For instance, in my lab at school, we've got a room chock full of Sparcs and Ultra Sparcs with Solaris 2.5.1 and 2.7. There are a ton of newbies who have a hell of a time figuring out Sun File Manager and there are also a few people like me who like the occasional eye candy.
So, my question. Is there any chance the source could be built to run stable on Solaris? And I'm assuming here that at least the core Gnome 1.2 libraries are available.
--
Ohhhhhh, pretty!
poing - poing - poing
Heh... Have you run a search on freshmeat recently? =)
Although, while there's much more software available for windows, a whole lot more of it costs more than $0 (and doesn't have open source code, if you care about such things).
However the Linux-kernel-based distribution world (or "Linux", for all of you non-RMS-friendly people =) ) need (1) more documentation and (2) some kind of extremely-context-sensitve help system, where informational and how-to type "documents" run scripts to automagically tune their instructions to the system.
I hate to say so, but I still prefer Windows over Linux because Windows has 18 gazillion pieces of software to use that cover nearly all of my wants and needs. Linux, therefore, is only a hassle to run right now. (Of course it works much better than Windows as a server, but that's another story that we've all read, right?)
All other things being equal, in fact, on MacOS there are fewer keystrokes and less chance of making an error. Command-N to make a folder, then type in the folder name and hit return. No chance of mistyping the "mkdir" command, a class of error that even skilled UNIX users frequently commit, and four fewer keystrokes.
The keystroke delta and reduced error potential are even more significant in the case where you want to -- gasp! -- give the folder an English-like name, which will very likely involve two or three words. This involves the radical concept of spaces in file names, which requires quoting on UNIX, creating extra keystrokes for the quotation marks and the risk of an unbalanced quotation error.
Finally, assuming that you do need to navigate to the folder, the error potential is much higher in the command line case, since people frequently commit typographical and mnemonic errors when typing in directory names in a "cd" command. This just doesn't happen in a GUI environment. You can still type the leading part of a folder name to navigate as a shortcut if you want, but the visible results of doing so guarantee that you won't wind up in the wrong place -- or going nowhere at all, the usual consequence of an error in a "cd" command.
But that's what it takes to get an "insightful" rating here -- command line advocacy at the expense of basic honesty and of a moment's consideration about the realities of the situation. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for your gentle correction to get a moderation point, since you're not in line with the dominant /. ideology.
Tim
Can anyone tell me why you can't actually manage files with a file manager? For example, at work I need to compare two large directory structures to see which files are different between the two. Or which directories have recently updated files. Short of a bash script or a diff on two different ls commands (all commandline things) I can't do it. In other words, I can't manage files with a file manager!
Keeping
I had the same problem, but the hourly installer (the same installer with an extra option) seems to behave nicely. However, I can't tell for sure until the installation is finished, and at this download rate it seems to take forever.
--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
The helpful comment above (all-in-one-file-browser) notwithstanding, (no, I'm not being sarcastic... it was helpful), I think the fellow left out the most important part.
If it were just another gui, perhaps there would have been a single line of explanation.
It's not just another gui, though, it's a gui with pedigree.
The original macintosh designers founded the company. That simple fact has given the company tsunamis worth of free publicity. (I know it got my attention.) The sky-high buzz factor probably accounts for the assumption we all know what it is by now.
Myself, I recognize the mac influence in the labels, (I forget the eazel term, but they are categorization tags for files), which is something I always missed from those mac days of yore.
Hype or not, good work and power to 'em I say.
http://www.eazel.com/screenshots/
you're right. no way. someone else took that dubious honor. go find something constructive to do.
I say this over and over, but when we're playing Freshmeat, could we at least get a single line explaining what the software does?
Really, folks, I'm not trolling. I just don't have the time to stay up on this stuff, and it would help immensely if I knew what it was. I know, some kharma whore is going to come on after me and reply with a ten line description, complete with the author's birthdate, but all we really need is a single quick line in the news headline.
If it's not a distro, it needs an explanation. (And even some distros need a note!!)
What's your damage, Heather?
...only binaries for RH62 and 70. This can't be a final release. I dont like compiler errors and prefer waiting for a 'real' end-user release.
It says they have redhat 7 rpms, but before you can install them, you have to upgrade half the existing packages on your system! I'll wait until I upgrade...
You have a valid point saying becaues Windows is preinstalled that Linux should be easier to install, my point is that majority of users don't even know how to install Windows. Because of this they will be reluctant to install any operating system no matter how easy people say it is. I tell all my friends Windows is so easy to install, they say "well, you know computers! of course it's easy for you, but I'm a dummy when it comes to them."
:)
/'s permissions, making the system unusable to anyone but root, and also messed up the permissions of everyone. also "when kernel compile goes wrong because of <insert very abstract problem here>" .. Also due to the fact that the kernel even needs recompiling.
Majority of end users who just casually use a computer here and there want to go out and buy something that works out of the box. No installing an OS, they don't even want to be encumbered by having to know what an OS is.
For Linux to be a viable desktop this has to happen: It needs to be prepackaged with computers.
If my mom were to use a machine running Windows, nothing would change. I would still have to be the one who installs Windows, and does all the settings and configuration
I don't think Linux is 100% ready to replace Windows on the desktop, due to many small issues which have to be seen through the eyes of an end user. It's not just the installation process, but, also the configuration process.
I used Linuxconf (no flames please) to configure a user account on my server, and it fouled up
The majority of these issues, and other hardware problems with Linux are very easy for us techies to fix, but very difficult for people that don't even know what an OS is. I've had as much of a hard time, if even more of a hard time getting hardware to work under Linux than under Windows, sometimes the hardware even worked in Linux but failed in Windows, but if the computer comes from the store working right and configured properly for all the hardware, then it's no problem.
Then the user could cause all kinds of stuff to go wrong, but the same is true in Windows. As a PC Tech, I'm constantly fixing problems caused by end users.
I don't believe any end users that aren't at least 5% techie will ever install an operating system. It's just not gonna happen.
- Alex
I still don't get why people think the win 9X GUI is so great. yea it is what everybody knows but it just plain sucks. But this is of course a limit of all GUIs Basically for really working with files *nothing* beats xterm and bash. :) Having said that the wind 9x GUI is just plain wrong. Everything useful is buried and you either have way too many ways to do things or they can't be done at all. And have you ever tried to really customize the look and feel of a winders box? Yech. I have a couple of "John Doe" types begging me to install Linux for them now that they have seen my desktop (E + Gnome with all the Gnome stuff turned off :) and the Irix theme from e.themes.org) So please tell me just what is it that win 95's GUI does better? I have so far *never* gotten an answer to that question. :)
Cypherpunks: Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics. Those who live by the sword die by the arrow.
As cold and "elitist" as this sounds, I don't think slashdot should have to explain this stuff.
The issue that arises is "where do you draw the line?". Should slashdot post an explanation everytime the Gimp is mentioned? Or Gnome/KDE? I would hope that the average slashdot reader already knows what Nautilus is -- and if he/she doesn't, that they take the time to figure it out on their own.
Personally, if Slashdot explained what Nautilus is I'd feel turned off. Seeing "Nautilus, the next-generation desktop shell for the Gnome environment" has a real ZDnet feel to it (ever notice how so many Linux articles from other sources give the 1 paragraph explanation about Linux and how Linus Torvalds started it in 1992 blah blah blah). It's not like this is the first article on Nautilus at slashdot. You have no excuse for not taking 5 seconds to research, sorry.
Perhaps a better solution is for Slashdot to automatically append one of those Everything2 links to these words. This way it doesn't insult regulars with the ZDnet feel to it, and it makes explanations simple for others.
Whoa! A filemanager, nicely packaged in a 10MB tarball. Ah yes, technologial progress at its best. Im sure there are millions of reasons for why this is such a Good Thing(tm) (its "features" *cough*bloat*cough*), but come on!
What exactly are we aiming at here? Gnome 2.0, Nautilus, Mozilla, Star Office. Hell, even Code Commander and Xchat are sluggish because of the zxcv#"%RWEARg "canvas" or whatever the name of what theyre using. I seem to remember Linux being praised as really slim and fast. Thats still true as long as you dont try to start X!
The Ximian monkey shouldve been a fat gorilla to symbolise their goal of absolute bloat.
Moderate me down as flamebait, reduntant and troll all together if you want, but I just had to whine some. I -do not- understand why everyone keeps swallowing this crap!
Linux is great, but the so called "GUIs" suck ass. Why oh why cant someone write a from-scratch GUI for Linux? Fuck the bloat. My AMIGA was quite usable thank you! There should be plenty of headroom for USABLE "features" considering todays computers are about a gazillion times faster.
I have to say I agree - again, like you, I am no command line freak. The GUI definitely has it's uses, and I do like GUIs. In the end, I also like command lines (didn't used to, but then I got to know it all a bit better).
I use cygwin and BASH (I'm stuck on NT at work) for most of my file management, because it's just, well, easier and faster. mkdir is a perfect example. Let's see... open up explorer, open up the tree to the directory I want then go through lots of "new folder" operations, or open up BASH to where I want to be (which is faster than waiting for explorer to load) and do a "mkdir -p some/long/series/of/directories" to create the heirarchy I need?
Yes there are operations that are just plain easier in a graphical file manager, and I wish someone would actually combine the two _properly_ (some of the versions of EFM were getting there, graphical file management, but while in EFM you could type a variety of bash style commands and get desired results).
Jedidiah
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
This may work for what I would use it for or it may not. I do a lot of copy and pasting and the pasting is usually pasted multiple times. I know that you don't alway pop, that isn't my problem. Thinking about what I was talking about, I could copy two things, and then paste them over and over again. With the stackboard, I can't. Also, I would have to copy in reverse order that I wanted to paste in, because the cursor will inevitably be at the end of my paste. I think doing that would be a little cumbersome (not unusable, but I would prefer to copy in the order I'm reading my code, not in the reverse order). I still feel that appending would suit me better, but not having used a stackboard system, I don't know how much I would run up against it's limitations. I do know that XCV good enough, but can be better.
-no broken link
Eazel Services look very similar to Red Hat's Network service - see www.redhat.com/network/
Anyone care to explain to me what the difference is?
There is a piece of software that at one time had the potential to capture the lions share of the desktop - all those users who would use KDE or GNOME (with Sawmill) instead. The reason it didn't was because the principle authors were more concerned with writing kewl features to exploit their sound and image libraries than on producing a straightforward, light and consistent window manager.
Consequently everyone now uses Sawmill with GNOME or KDE with its builtin WM. Enlightenment has been pushed out onto the fringe.
This must be a strange and marvelous definition of "userfriendly". When did the complete and total loss of all data on the computer when something gets slightly out-of-whack and the whole damn system has to be reinstalled from scratch, or having to be rebooted several times a day, or having a pathetic notion of security, become "friendly"?
The Linux and BSD boxes I've used over the years have been my friends. It took some work to forge those friendships, but that's the way friendship is.
Even the Solaris, AIX, and HP-UXes, yes, even the Ultrix machines, have been allies, frustrating at times but still on my side. (Don't ask about that SCO CWM+ one, though...)
But the Windows machines, and even Macs, I find I just can't trust. And trust is the basis of friendship.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | http://www.infamous.net/
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Finally, assuming that you do need to navigate to the folder, the error potential is much higher in the command line case, since people frequently commit typographical and mnemonic errors when typing in directory names in a "cd" command.
There's a neat little trick in bash called Command Line Completion. Just type the beginning of the file / directory and hit tab. If you didn't type enough to get a unique match, just tap tab again and it will show you all the matching file / dirs.
Auto-completion not only decreases the chance for typos greatly, it speeds things up to the point where I *can* navigate through a dir structure faster than with a GUI. I haven't had to type an existing file / dir name in years.
Umm, because a file manager is the dinosaur of information managers.
...) it.
/mill
I want to manage information and the only obsticle I should bother myself is authorization. The location of the information is not something that should stop me from managing (viewing, changing,
So a file manager is therefore not adequate for managing information because it limits you to where the information is located. Of course there are distributed file systems and similar to get around this, but still it is far easier to provide a common interface to all different kinds of information spaces (WWW, digital cameras, etc).
Skins is not something I am interested in, but being able to access any information anywhere is a great feature. In fact this was the vision and goal of the WWW that has yet to be fulfilled. Giving end-users these tools is a step in the right direction.
You can say it's an investment to learn Linux, but some of these people can't program their VCR.
If you want Linux to replace Windows, it has to cater for those who don't know how to program, who can't program their VCR and just want to email their grandkids a photo of the cat.
As a dummy myself I know I couldn't install Linux without help from techie friends. It needs to be simple, just point and click.
It also has to be at least as pretty as Windows, because when you don't know anything about something, you tend to choose the most "professional" looking thing.
So while you run this down for it's pretty colours, and cite examples of programs that do exactly the same thing, remember you could be looking at the future of Linux.
Has anyone successfully upgraded from 0.8? The installer tells me that I already have the most current software.
This means Redhat 6.1 or Redhat 6.2.
It may sound weird, but /. announced it, a brazilian magazine annouced it, but you don't see anything about this on Gnotices...
well, the brazilian distribution Conectiva has added the apt-get to their rpm system. I never used it, but I guess all you need to do is something like apt-get nautilus-1.0...
But I still prefer the old and good source tarballs. It works on *every* distribution :) (just remember to add the --prefix=/usr when compiling)...
Frankly, I am totally unimpressed. I suppose it is good for a 1.0 release. As for being beautifull. I don't think so. Beautifull is Apple's Aqua. That is what we should be comparing it too.
Cheers,
Tomas
===========
freenet:KSK@nautilus-redhat7-i386-rpms.txt
Here are the direct key links:
ammonite-1.0.0-1_eazel_1.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@fpU7z4lSAFjTURdT8rXrtaFZqG8OAwE,pmcahK Q7zl0aCgpI8h5x-g
control-center-1.3.90-0_plain_0.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@RgbVw1SmnWDvcpn~cl-btTtO6VMOAwE,W5qYPv khGmpHroAqw~TMPA
control-center-devel-1.3.90-0_plain_0.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@cKPcQ8QvwSH2E5xhYqBnU-lUbQYOAwE,e~8RpI kDbO8cJVyoI-vScg
freetype-2.0.1-4.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@TcWNe-Yr41giV7~ff5K4XAzv8jYOAwE,8u8JQD wpYc3x7vGJzbnOkg
gdk-pixbuf-0.10.0-0_plain_0.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@ADveeR7JRz8iiTIqEhtncRp-HOwOAwE,CazfdL eTbJlZDa0Akqj-ew
gdk-pixbuf-devel-0.10.0-0_plain_0.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@8Qhxjke~3mFlwDPi4O-DKPEqMI8OAwE,isdFBt SKUkuuq1GN1r30hQ
gnome-user-docs-1.3.0-1.noarch.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@BwUcfEOeDQpmphuJQHPPxBMd21gOAwE,6vcjYz XsEWvhBPhIcKJHSg
gnome-vfs-1.0-1_eazel_1.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@m6MjzR8euUazO6gDSDoP5mrKbg4OAwE,jNhZsc xH9Lrs10ocM2ux5A
medusa-0.5.0-1_eazel_1.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@qTOt6PBsiZjZdShnNcqd~WfNGVwOAwE,mj38w3 ZzMF7c9c3~VninMw
mozilla-0.8-2.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@~99Yq7pv7Cp8MCOTGnPYowWc7cwQAwE,H3x0h2 bn43oJXRXjnrodjw
mozilla-mail-0.8-2.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@9UxOWz571QiotsV6oKaX3wkQNQIOAwE,aaYGfB A-RICKwFyiJ1RrVQ
mozilla-psm-0.8-2.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@IioO3cW1kS94D2qUC9~b81t2V20OAwE,NbhXq8 I5~BFT7WGGhqHZYQ
nautilus-1.0-1_eazel_3.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@~CqJgQmUt4OI5OCZLU2qPo~QaasQAwE,y06WhI wVJ~72UWbLzEE2sA
nautilus-extras-1.0-1_eazel_3.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@aPPc4S-ErW5LDbERMf770TB2HNILAwE,O5qFTT fQ7UMHC7uWREDZQQ
nautilus-mozilla-1.0-1_eazel_3.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@LOPsj50fV7dfvtqG1~lxFnz4H1MOAwE,f5a4iD W5v~G6mz9bXFJTbg
nautilus-suggested-1.0-1_eazel_3.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@skiCs4KUgLCcguK1K0G1NZc-BG4MAwE,U2lZoC r0Krdrp6rVh38nXA
nautilus-trilobite-1.0-1_eazel_3.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@JNYyTVlKeAc2jVNTzIy4KsckIO8OAwE,60RKk7 Gf6nd2qBw0y6W-Mg
oaf-0.6.5-0_plain_0.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@lnr4XdTJFXupmrEmNigaAfIMBHgOAwE,NCR-WE AU8sykC~dvUdiMMw
scrollkeeper-0.1.4-1.i386.rpm Inserted Key : freenet:CHK@s4PbJL4iZPGkJPeygluVVYMt-dUOAwE,-VyyY8 CKJpuQp5CYvESaRQ
Got friends?
More to the point, this is going directly against Helix Code / Ximian's plans with Red Carpet. It's going to be interesting to see how this one comes out: Eazel's piles of money and its supercharged hype machine (As Seen In Newsweek!) versus Ximian's smaller (IIRC) piles of money and Miguel's status as the object of adoration of the North American Linux world. I'd bet on Ximian (ask Raster and Mandrake about trying to challenge Miguel for leadership of the Gnome world) but I'm skeptical that anyone is ever going to get Linux desktop users to ever pay for anything except hardware, and maybe distros.
Eazel Online Storage: been there, done that.
To me, it's obvious why free diskspace has little appeal. Commonly available bandwidth is simply too slow to make use of a reasonable amount of available storage. Let's say I'm offered 50 free megs. It's a trivial addition to my 12 gig hard drive and yet copying that data, even over a T1, would still take forever. If technology had progressed at a different rate and 35 meg hard drives were common on new computers today, it would be a different story.
Unsettling MOTD at my ISP.
See, when I incorporated my company somewhat over a year ago, I took the chance to run it as a (almost) Linux only shop.
The learning curve was (sometimes still is) steep. Wasting a day on hooking up a modem, only to find out it's defective, is no fun. Wading through an initially slightly incomprehensible documentation until you reach the point, where you find it's very well documented can be frustrating at times, but...
I use computers since 83 (ZX81, anyone ?). I really loved Macs at the end of the 80s, I could arrange myself with the somewhat flimsy DOS.
Things went straight to hell, when the evil empire introduced Windows, and even more so with the 9x incarnations.
Sure, you have a huge amount of software to chose from and pay the price of DL(hel)L, just for your attempt to try something and install it. FAT is a joke and virtually useless when you tinker with databases and every 6 month your best option is an installation from scratch; that's an isolated machine, I'm not even getting into networks.
Then there is the fact, that you're notoriously ripped off. I overall paid 600$ in licensing and upgrade fees for Win2k for a Dell notebook, for which I licensed and paid for the very same software, because the gangsters in Redmond decide that I'm only entitled to my Recovery Disk of the software.
Linux at this stage ist the OS that lets me work fairly painless since almost a year now.
Is it 100% perfect ? No, of course not. But if things break down, if software doesn't run or compile, it's either not vital or I can get around it. Usually by spending a fairly small amount of time.
Oh, yeah: And if M$ really goes through with their mandatory registration scheme. This W2K partition on my Latitude is the very last piece of M$ software I purchased and installed. EVER!!!
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
The pure stack suggested here is probably not good because it disallows multiple copies. But something like Emacs M-Y would be good: it indicates that you wanted an earlier cut and replaces the one you just did with another.
Before you can compile for different OS's/processors you have to have that OS or processor. You just need to be patient if your running anyting but x86 RedHat.
People only think they are too stupid to use powerful command line tools, but in fact with a little help almost everyone can use it and can be more productive with it. Most are too lazy though, and thus because they don't want to spend the initial 30 minutes, they loose 30 minutes each day.
For some people, yes this is the case, but I've always found the CLI versus GUI argument to be pointless. In my experience, for some things the CLI is faster and in some things it isn't. I kind of like the old analogy that when you want to dig a ditch, the shovel is your tool. If you want to dig a canal, then you'd better get a steam shovel.
I love the CLI, but sometimes it can't quite do the job that a particular GUI can quite as easily. And, Nautilus looks like it could be a pretty good shovel.
"The words of the prophets are written on the Slashdot walls."
I can't believe that I'm apparently the first to point this out, but Nautilus 1.0 isn't officially released yet. There's supposed to be an official rollout announcement later this month.
With any luck, you'll be able to get it for your distro and/or platform at that time.
Till then, envy.
Tim
What, no birthdate? ;)
Alex Bischoff
---
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
MacOS 1.0?
:D )
"Maybe 1984 won't be so much like 1984..."
Ok, granted, it wasn't just the software, but the hardware as well. But it was mainly the OS on that hardware.
(heh...sorry, couldn't resist.)
As for Nautilus, it's definitely not for me.It seems that I can get the functionality like that that I need from Mac OS X (currently PB, but soon 1.0...only 11 days
To each his own, tho.
BTW, I have heard that xFree can now run rootless on OS X. Anyone know anything about this?
my $.02US.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Lets hope Linux doesn't go the way of windows. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the next version of photoshop had a built in stock ticker. My webbrowser plays mp3s and my mp3 player can browse the web. Why? We just need components. If you write and mp3 player make it play MP3s. Period. Make it play mp3s faster and make stable. Repeat (or move on). Let every component do their one task and let the user put the pieces together. As a good example the miribilis version of ICQ got the axe on my machine. It can take phone calls, serve files, SMS message, and unfortunately cram ads down my throat. But all i want to do is message. So goodbye to ICQ's 8 meg footprint and its adds, I now run Miranda. It messages...and...thats it! Woo! (only 300k of memory too!)
Actually, I work on a similar concept which would allow one to either copy or paste the standard way or to push/pop(or peek) from the "stackboard". ;-)
It just seems that clipboards have become obsolete.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Well, contrary to popular belief, they actually ARE still developing it, and it's starting to show some real promise. Although there is no release, you can check it out of CVS. See http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/enlightenment/
Also, you can read all about E 0.17 (upcoming release) on Raster's site http://www.rasterman.com/
Something that Windows has long had (well, since 95, anyway) is an integrated feel; stuff can be hooked into explorer
Well, since you pointed that out, let me point out the fact that it is nearly impossible to lock down a desktop workstation running windows. This is due primarily to the integration that is found in all of these wonderful M$ apps. You can launch any application from within Word? WHAT? Why on earth would I want to launch an application from the open dialogue of a word processor? All this mamsy-pamsy-feel-good integration is a big pain and a thorn in the side of any computer lab admins/security. Who was it that decided that integration and lack of control was a Good Thing(TM)? I'd like to know.
Not it isn't. QNX, BeOS, MacOS 9, Windows 2000 and KDE 2.1 on Linux are just as friendly. Windows is just better known than the above. Your average corporate IT user isn't going to have any trouble using any of these, especially since they'll have an IT helpdesk if they get stuck. Home users should stick to Windows for the time being, but the way to get Linux on the desktop is to get it into somewhere like Ford or Citibank first and then this will drive home adoption.
I don't hear anyone warring over Norton File Manager anymore and how it can't be purchased because Win 9x/NT/2k comes with one, so that horse is dead and beaten and has long since mouldered away.
There's a few of us die-hards left that have taken up the use of Windows Commander. It's a really spiffy Norton Commander clone that has a lot of addons, like FTP and serial file transfer. Everybody that I've shown it to has hated it at first, but after watching me use it for five minutes, has been converted. It's the bomb.
Of course, I know it'll never take over any serious market hold, but I don't care. I use it because it's simultaneously more powerful and yet more easy to use than Windows Explorer.
What's your damage, Heather?
I've really gotta agree with you. Everyone considers GUIs "easy to use", and dismisses the command line as antiquated, meaningless gibberish. Now, I'm not one of those "I refuse to run X" people, but I prefer to use the command line for a lot of tasks.
For example... Try creating a directory. To a complete newbie, "mkdir" is some cryptic command. But with the slightest knowledge of the command line, it becomes evident that it's better. "mkdir foo" is a *lot* easier than starting Windows Explorer, navigating to the folder you want, and then right clicking, and renaming "New Folder".
I'm not advocating that people stop work on GUIs, but I think that if more people would take the time to learn the basics of the command line, people would be more proficient with computers. In some cases, a GUI is a lot better -- if you're searching for something, you might fire up a quick GUI to click a few boxes, and have it run grep for you. But if you spend tons of time every day doing that, why not just learn grep? There really is a reason I generally have multiple terminal windows open...
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
suwain_2
I run Mozilla 0.8 on an Athlon 750 w/ 128Mb, it doesn't make the user interface any less slow.
Just because it's currently the best, doesn't mean it's any good. In fact, Mozilla is a good example of the failings of current software. The current GUI toolkits wern't good enough for them or something? Oh look, skins YAWN, oh look, more layers to slow my computer down.
If you like Mozilla, fine, great, whoopy. I still think it's slow and unresponsive. Hey, maybe they'll get it right for 1.0, who knows?
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Forgot to mention my hardware; PII-465, 128mb RAM, Voodoo 3 2000 (never peppy on 2D).
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
The idea is that if you make the web browser ubiquitous, no one will care about the browser wars and MS anymore. I don't hear anyone warring over Norton File Manager anymore and how it can't be purchased because Win 9x/NT/2k comes with one, so that horse is dead and beaten and has long since mouldered away.
Everyone's writing browsers for Linux and I have yet to see a good web browser for Linux (sorry, Netscrape), so the race is still on for something decent that those moms and dads can use while I'm hacking away at the commandline.
My solution is not for 100% of the population, just like the other solution is also not for 100% of everyone, but if it works, let them have their alternate file manager.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I think this step in the Linux evolution process is a necessary one. It's all about flexibility and choice. If you don't care about a fancy looking file manager and/or you think it's too limiting in features, you can in fact go "back to basics" with your command line. I know I do.
Even though I most likely won't use a graphic file manager, I welcome the addition so that more people can feel comfortable with using Linux while still enjoying its stability.
I never understood how people can comment on something before even trying it. The pre-releases from a couple days ago aren't as good as what is available now.
The installer works like a charm for RH6/7 users, so that should cover many folks. Source is available for everyone else, with packages showing up over the next few days.
Eazel services are damn nice.
The browser integration works well, though it will make some folks cringe in parts (right clicking on links does nothing for me).
Throughout the whole program are nice touches that are well thought out; side panel tabs, icon stretching, text-in-icon, multiple data-specific views, ...
Is it 'too simple'? YES! Is that a bad thing? Gripe gripe gripe...but can you code? Do you have alternate tools? If so, what's so satisfying about complaining?
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
Yep, I do; it seems to be the fashion in the last few years to include all sorts of functionality in every application (modular design isn't an option anymore). I always thought that the one big advantage of a multitasking operating system was that you could run a few applications, and 'mix' the output of those applications. I like to use a drawing program for drawing, and paste the result in my wordprocessor; I don't have a need for drawing capabilities in my wordprocessor. And that's just *one* example!
The trouble with X-windows has been that there is no standard for this; an app vendor would have to create a hook for WindowMaker, fvwm, KDE and GNOME; if a user had a different file manager, the plugin would have to be created for that as well. I'm guessing the Nautilus authors hope to bypass this and make a standard so that the "average user" (whatever the hell that is) can work with linux as easily as Windows/MacOS.
Those of us who want to use linux for servers simply don't install it, much like we'd probably like to remove the GUI from NT...
--
- Eazel Software Catalog. Hmm, looks like apt-get with a nice front end to me. Basically they want to create the Debian-style repository, but for RPM. By concentrating on RPM based distributions (RedHat) from the start Eazel might have discovered a problem: "automatic software upgrades". However a solution already existed in Linux space, Debian!
- Eazel Online Storage: been there, done that. Unless Eazel can provide high speed access to my data 24 hours a day it's not interesting at all. Personal experience with other such (free) services have been disappointing so far. And storage space becomes cheaper and broadband more pervasive peer-to-peer communication will become that more interesting for (Linux) consumers. I.e. talk directly to your home computer from anywhere! Instead of through Eazel. That said, uploading/downloading is quite fast. Let's hope it stays that way once all gnomes store their MP3's^H^H^H^H^H family pictures on Eazel.
Interesting to see how they're planning on making cash.Much of Nautilus will probably need to be rewritten once GNOME 2.0 comes out. As it is now, Nautilus is THE SLOWEST GNOME/Linux applications I've used ever. I do like my anti-alisased fonts hardware accellerated with RENDER, thank you very much! (yeah, already spoiled
-adnans
"In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people." --Linus Torvalds
For example... Try creating a directory. To a complete newbie, "mkdir" is some cryptic command. But with the slightest knowledge of the command line, it becomes evident that it's better. "mkdir foo" is a *lot* easier than starting Windows Explorer, navigating to the folder you want, and then right clicking, and renaming "New Folder".
But I never need to make a directory unless I'm already doing some file operations. Thus, I already have Explorer open and in the right spot. And if it's during a save file, the common dialog boxes also let you create, remove, etc. in the cute little file box. I think this is an example of poor use of the GUI and not a problem with GUIs in general.
Whatever the qualities are of windows 9x/NT/2000, one thing is for sure: The windows GUI has been pretty much the same since 95 and most applications written for it integrate nicely with it. Some projects under linux have gone to great length to duplicate and even improve on the features offered by the windows GUI. However, none have come to the point yet where most linux apps integrate nicely. Up until KDE 2.0, the linux desktop lacked a decent filebrowser (which is why everybody chooses to use the commandline). Now with Nautilus, there are two, reasonably fully featured file browsers (the other is konqueror).
So what makes Windows better? Consistency and standardized behavior (industry standard of course, but then, are there any other?). Theming is a nice gimmick, and yes there are ways to do it on win32. However, more advanced users usually refrain from using such features. Better of course is entirely subjective. However to me it is clear that under windows people actually use the GUI whereas under linux you almost have to use the commandline to get anything non trivial done. As long as this is the case windows/apple will be the superior desktop for many users (including me).
Don't get me wrong, I have the latest Gnome and KDE running on the Debian PC next to me and I love them both. But surfing, reading mail and doing serious stuff like writing a presentation or a paper is much more comfortable under windows 2000 at this point in time.
Jilles
Their site is still speedy, despite the frontpage's comments.
-- mikeDOTd
Sure the thing looks great, but I want to be able to write a program that does this:
FILE* f = fopen("http://www.slashdot.org","r");
And it should work! I should not have to create objects or link with some huge GUI/Corba/COM monster. And I should get FULL SPEED if I open a local file, without using if statements to decide what library I want to use to read it. In fact I think this functionality should be built into the system (as fs drivers, of course), this would match the Unix design where you write to serial ports using the same code as for files. In a lot of ways these new giant shared libraries are introducing the bad designs that K&R threw out 30 years ago!
Does anybody have documentation on that image format xv uses? Or is it considered standard to put any image format there now?
Assume we have a user, named Bob. Bob wants to do three things today:
- Download some images from his digital camera and save them
- View his favourite web page
- Make a copy of the document he was working on yesterday and put it on a floppy for his neo-ludite boss
These are fairly common tasks, I would have thought. Now, Bob is in Gnome, so he launches his wizz bang integrated "information managment" application, where he spends half an hour and completes all three tasks. He closes the program, and then logs out of Gnome, and switches the computer off. That was easy wasn't it Bob?If you were paying attention though, there was a peice of software that Bob never used when doing these three tasks. Gnome. That is, his desktop software. All he did was launch his wizz bang integrated application.
The point of this ramble? Well i'm all for ease of use, but i have always been led to believe that "information management" was the roll of the desktop interface. Why do you need to layer an integrated do-it-all application over your desktop?
I know someone is going to say that Gnome will integrate their "information manager" into Gnome 2.0, but it will still be a seperate application as far as the user is concerned. Not only that, but it's a single, large application; that's a lot of memory to use just to copy a file, and the user interface is going to be confused with all the extra buttons and menus that are not needed to copy that file.
I'm calling for developers to step back and slow down from their headlong rush into integrating everything, and ask themselves and their users a few things;
- Is this easy to use?
- Does this user interface make sense conceptually?
- How much duplication is there?
- Is there a better way to do this?
At the end of it, they may find it makes more sense to encapsulate common components into libraries, and to make use of Bonobo or other COM style systems. They may reduce the number of layers of software on my computer, and hopefully gain some speed in the process. They may realise that users do not neccesarily want to use their web browser as a file manager.In the end, I just want developers to stop copying everyone else, and try some of their own ideas for once.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
__________________
I don't know of any mirrors, but here are instructions for building and links to the tarballs.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
One of the things users were to do was find a certain file and copy it. Guess what, they just typed the path in the Nautilus location bar rather than using the tree even though they found that already.
Another question was to go to a certain (MIT) site. Most people IIRC typed it in the location bar also.
And I think this makes a lot of sense. Certainly when combined with the inline viewing that Nautilus offers with Bonobo.
Further, I think it makes a lot of sense too to integrate the help system into Nautilus (which seems to be happening somewhat) because Nautilus is a tool for managing and viewing files.
Monkey sense
I concur. While Slashdot readers are most willing to help clarify certain things in the comment boards, some of us have neither the time nor the inclination to spend half an hour researching something like this just so we can "ooo" and "aah" at some widget that not everyone can use. Yes, I'm a Windows user, you may flog me later.
-----------
-----------
POiT!
I've played with I don't know how many GUI file managers over the last ten or so years, and I still haven't found anything to touch the Amiga's DirectoryOpus.
I promise this isn't a case of rose-tinted specs, because I still use DOpus now and again (I still keep the Amigas around for Bars and Pipes and Sensible World Of Soccer) and it's so light and responsive that there isn't much speedup on my (once mighty) A4000 from the bog-standard A1200. It's also ridiculously simple to configure in just the way you like it, and building up new macros is completely trivial.
Okay, so we all know Workbench smokes X for speed and code size, but the last time I tried Nautilus (admittedly a while ago) it was unusable on a 500MHz PIII. (And IIRC it took *months* to build.) And for all its bloat I can't imagine that from a file management point of view Nautilus offers anything DOpus doesn't. (Okay - so it's a browser to, but hell - who needs another one of those?)
For me DOpus took the right approach - make a lightweight, rock solid framework which a user can easily adapt to suit their needs. Nautilus seems to go more for the Mozilla approach.
I also have a question. Do Unix folk really use GUI file managers? I know I don't. And don't give me the "friendly for the desktop user" argument either, because most of the Windows users I know never do file management any more involved than double clicking "My Documents". It's nearly all done from dialog boxes within Word and friends.
Maybe your concerns are because its too hard to "mix" the work done in different apps under x... I think what is keeping people like me from using Gnome and other X desktops on a regular basis is that they don't help me focus on a fluid workflow. I agree that apps have gotten too bloated, but not being able to exchange work done between different apps in X in any intuitive way makes these bloated apps necessary.
There weren't even any alpha or beta releases for Solaris SPARC/x86 either... Let alone other platforms like *BSD. ;>
Has anyone even tried building this on something other than linux?
Because i have, and it has some serious issues. It's a pile of extremely NON portable code.
It's sad, but true, that those that get opressed, always become opressors. This could have been a true piece of a unix desktop, but intead they focused ONLY on linux and recently solaris.
THis is one reason why i'll be switching to Kde 2.1 and maybe latter, to the upcoming enlightenment desktop.
I enjoy my freedom.
It's more than that, it also has OpenOffice a mp3 player and more. I think that this is partialy because Eazel wanted Natilus to be a huge part of GNOME. More or less the make natilus the GNOME UI and more people will see the Eazel services stuff.
Does anyone have any information on Nautilus' compliance with HTML 4, CSS-1 and -2, and other W3C recommendations?
Justin Miller
Associate Editor and Geek at Large,
MacSlash.com
What is the big deal? It's a file manager!!! When is someone actually going to come up with an interface for Linux that doesn't just make it look like a prettier version of Windows? I've had just about enough desktop icons and file managers. Is this it? Is this all there is? Is this the future of desktop computing--more of the same, but prettier? But it does themes!!! OOooohhhh, I'm impressed now! I don't give a shit about file managers. I'm sick of having to track every file I create. Why can't the computer do that for me? Why do I have to give a name and location to every single document I create? Why can't the computer do that? Isn't it smart enough to see what I'm typing, tell what sort of document I'm creating, and act accordingly? Here is my idea, and keep in mind, I'm not a programmer. Why not have the OS, or at least something very low level, actually be a database, but present the user with several different front-ends. For instance, when I want to do word processing, I launch a program that looks like Word, or Wordperfect, but is actually a database, with all of the attendant functionality. As I'm creating my document, the database is indexing it and figuring out what it is. When I'm done, it saves it for me. When I want it back, I type in a few search terms, or perhaps I get a menu of some sort, and I can re-open it, along with any other documents related to it, e.g., a spreadsheet. I could even have a microphone that I just speak into and ask for something, e.g., "show me the memo I was working on yesterday about the new operating system." Does this make sense, or am I just full of it?
Why do you need to customize the hell out of these window managers? Don't you realize you are getting ZERO work done? Get doing something useful with that window manager by actually running programs on it instead of being one of the "eternal tweakers".
All your Skins are belong to us.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
Has anyone looked at the services offered in Nautilus?
They include:
- Remote storage. Great, but it's integrated only within Nautilus; which means (a) no command-line access, (b) not even access from other desktop apps (esp. KDE ones!)
- An installer. Haven't I seen something like that before? (Hint: Ximian...) Yes! We also have Red Carpet!
So, frankly, what do we get from these services?I'd say that the continued separation of these functions is better than any attempts to merge them. Even the overlap between navigation in browsers and file managers is just a visual kludge.
You've missed my point though. Why does the file manager have to be a web browser? Why can't the file manager concentrate on managing my files, and the web browser worry about browsing the web?
A web browser can be just as ubiquitous to the desktop system you use without it having to be the same thing as my file manager, and vice versa.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
To me, that seems like one hell of a leap of logic to come to the conclusion that a set of web pages are conceptually the same as a bunch of files on my computer?
If they are conceptually the same, why do these integrated file manager / web browsers not use the same user interface to display files to the user as it does to display a web page to the user?
They don't; files still appear as files, directories as directories, and they all have icons. Web pages are not displayed in a hierachical view in the file manager with a little icon you double click to open it.
They are not the same thing, and there doesn't seem to be any good reason to combine the two.
One last note. As much as integrated file managers / web browsers annoy me, that is not my only problem with modern software. It's the whole loss of direction and re-inventing of the wheel that gets me too.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
I'm getting an error about a conflict between mozilla v0.8 and mozilla-mail v0.8. I don't have any mozilla things installed on my machine already.
Any ideas? Their support section was no help.
The limit with this feature is that you can't just gather files from several directories views so each time you want to add a new file to your selection you have to paste all the previous somewhere and just copy paste the new with them.
I remember a NeXTstep feature which was the handful : The first time you selected more than one file in a view, you then had an icon showing a hand which appeared. You could preserve this icon by putting it on the filer window shelf. Once there, you could use as a temporary directory and drag subsequently chosen files so that at the end you could copy/move/delete, etc. all the selected files at once.
I'd like to see this feature in modern filers.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
They should be deprogrammed and reeducated instead. But indeed, a Filemanager might help them to take the first step towards UNIX. Second step would be re-education and take away the Filemanager :). So UNIX should have a fake filemanager which looks very nice but in fact is crap.
People only think they are too stupid to use powerful command line tools, but in fact with a little help almost everyone can use it and can be more productive with it. Most are too lazy though, and thus because they don't want to spend the initial 30 minutes, they loose 30 minutes each day.
People only think they are too stupid to use powerful command line tools, but in fact with a little help almost everyone can use it and can be more productive with it. Most are too lazy though, and thus because they don't want to spend the initial 30 minutes, they loose 30 minutes each day.
Oh, I know I'm not too stupid to use the command line. I just have no need at home. At work, I do lots of wacky things with find and grep and ls and mix them in unnatural combinations. At home, I copy files. Sometimes I delete them. Every now and then I have to search for files, but that's pretty rare.
When I try to install it, it just craps out with
* Conflict between mozilla vM18 (required by nautilus-suggest v1.0) and mozilla v0.8
* Conflict between mozilla-mail v0.8 (required by nautilus-suggest v1.0) and mozilla vM18
I don't have mozilla M18 installed on my system
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
For the little I know about 'component technology' (DCOM or Bonobo or Kparts ), the code is not duplicated. A word-processor can edit drawings because it is 'borrowing' from the drawings editor program not only its funcions but also part of its GUI, wich gets 'embedded' in the word processor.
Said so, I still prefers the old way of sharing code with libraries and starting different processes to perform different activities ...
Ciao
----
FB
OK, it's great that Windows supports open-on-hover (or whatever you want to call it). Just out of curiosity, since when? I'm pretty sure not since '95... :)
However, Ctrl-X/C/V sounds wrong. Let me repeat my question: can you paste a list of filenames to a text entry box? Can you accidentally stop the operation by copying something else to the clipboard (what happens if you cut the files to move them, and then copy something else to the clipboard? oops)? I haven't got a Windows system available on which to test this, but if it doesn't do both, it does it wrong. OS/2, incidentally, has had a superior form of this feature(1) for some time.
There's also the problem of Windows having no idea whether it wants Ctrl-X,C,V or Shift-Insert,Ctrl-Insert, and Ctrl-Delete, and this feature only reenforces that.
1. It doesn't purport to use the clipboard, it gives you visual feedback (the pointer changes) when something is 'picked up,' and it doesn't interfere with other operations (like regular cut and paste).
--Matthew
I had problems with the files depending on themselves good to see that they updated their mozilla to 8.2
it rocks on my machine
lets see some speed improvements though
anyone want to run a contest for the greatest speed improvement ?
also openoffice builds are going well on my machine and the corba bridge allows eazel to use it
regards
john jones
lets get some slackpacks built so that i can check it out ;) .
... why the hell is everything compiled and build with RH ? what about debs ?what about slackpacks ? is it really that hard to build another binary package?
but seriously
we really need to decide on a universal package format. not rpm. something with a nice apt-get command would be nice. I'm voting for slackpacks with a centralized server and an apt-like utility.
thanks for a link :)
-- http://electronicintifada.net --
And could someone put up the 1.0 sources for those of us not running RedHat or Debian?
Miri it is whil Linux ilast...
Not entirely true. Nautilus makes heavy use of the Bonobo component system, and also provides lots of pointers for viewing the files in alternate applications. In fact, there are rather few built-in viewers specific for Nautilus. All this makes a user use a good deal of "the rest of Gnome" even from inside Nautilus.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
I'm posting this using Nautilus 1.0 right now and I have to say that I'm very impressed. I knew that it would have nice eye candy and such but I'm really supprised at how fast it is. I do have a fairly fast machine (600MHz Athlon, 256M RAM) but I still figured that Nautilus would be slugish but I'm happily corrected. It's only been a few minutes of use but I think that I will use this thing all the time. Now if eazel could figure out how to make $ from it...
And that's *my* point. You use what's important for *you*. If granny needs to use a web browser to manage files instead of something else, then more power to the guys making it and may they make a decent living off of it.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
Even in Windows, I make sure I have the coolbars from IE4.0 loaded so that I can have the Address bar on my toolbar to use as a commandline. If I know the path, it's so much quicker if I just type it.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I tried a couple of the pre-releases and it was utterly gorgeous, but hellishly slow (as everyone seemed to agree). Can anyone confirm that the final release is faster than the previews, otherwise it makes nice screen-candy, but not really a usable environment?
Also (the website appears to be slashdotted) can anyone tell me whether it still needs Mozilla 0.7 to install - there's no way I'm going to downgrade, especially with 0.81 due out in a few days?
It doesn't *have* to be, just like someone's browser skin doesn't have to be blue. If they like it that way, and it makes them more productive, then viva la difference! If they're spending all their time being "eternal tweakers" instead of getting their job done, then slap them. Hard.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
I like nautilus - I have been using it for a little while at home. While trying to install it at work on a RH6.2 machine without success (there seem to be major RPM conflicts with Ximian stuff) I went to their support site (http://support.eazel.com) which is running windows 2000?? That's almost as ambarassing as microsoft running bsd for their hotmail servers (they used to anyway)...
Umm, no...
a mp3 player
It uses mpg123 for that. Nice, eh?
and more.
My point being that it re-uses a lot of code. So it's not so much of a "huge part of Gnome" as it is a "wide portal to Gnome".
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
The biggest reason is that its simpler for the majority of people, specifically those raised on Windows and Mac like interfaces.
The process you describe as being needed is performed by different programs in the "other" world. Usually there are programs which sync directories among different computers.
Your "need" as described simply doesn't apply to 90+% of the users out there. (besides I can find the recently updated files on my windoze system very easily...)
I think a FM for Linux is a step in the right direction, however it won't make me switch yet.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
If you run Gnome, you really shoud check out Galeon. It embeds the mozilla gecko engine, _but_ the rest is full on gnome.
http://galeon.sourceforge.net/info.html
In an ideal world you are right; however in this universe things are looking rather different. An application will needs all sorts of 'handles' and code to embed GUI parts & functionality. I personally don't want IE to embed Word when I download a document, just smack it on the disk and I'll deal with it later; I also don't want in-document Excel editing, but the functionality is there and hogs the application. But I think it has all got to do with the average Joe being able to use his computer without too much of a hassle, so we will have to put up with it :(
- Put yourself in intermediate or advanced mode, and go to your preferences. In there, you can disable some items in the "speed tradeoffs" category.
- Also in the preferences, under "Appearance", you can unclick the "Use smoother (but slower) graphics". That will speed up most graphical operations.
- You can try going to the Edit menu, and choose icon captions. Try telling it that you don't want any info
There may be more ways to improve speed, but these are the ones that I know of. I'm pretty sure that the final Nautilus uses MozillaGood luck.
The download pages for Redhat 6.x and Redhat 7 currently link to PR3 RPMs. I'm sure this will change soon. But until then, use the Redhat 6.x Installer or the Redhat 7 Installer. Or you can grab hourly builds.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
... a web browser and the local file browser are the same damn thing, except that the web is generally read-only. There needs to be an interchange between the two concepts, or each will be crippled.
Course, I have absolutely no interest in Nautilus, but to each her own.
i've been waiting for that one too for a long time.
i dont even know if e is still alive, i mean they havent released new version of it for months, www.enlightment.org havent been updated for since october 2000 and you dont hear anything about e anymore. If they dont release new version soon, i'll probably switch to kde 2.1, it seems to be really good wm/desktop
-- http://electronicintifada.net --
The /. naysayers can tell/shout/yell/cry everything.
But it's a great day for Linux. Not only because Nautilus is made by veterans that shaped the world once and can shape the world again, but also a Linux program will be see far beyond Linux (on Solaris, for instance).
Go Eazel!
Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
It's a file manager! Oh, wait....
Someone care to explain to me what is so pant wetingly good about a file manager? Hasn't Gnome and KDE both had file managers since the day they started?
As someone else has already pointed out, why can't you manage your files with a file manager any more? They run around adding all these fancy options (Oh look, skins. YAWN) and trying to turn file managers into web browsers. Why? I want to manage files, not browse the web. My web browser does that.
Doesn't anyone else feel it's time for a back to basics aproach with computers? There are so many layers and stupid features in products today that computers are just slower and harder to use then they were only five years ago. Less eye-candy, more functionality, please.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Konqueror can do pretty much everything Nautilus does, plus quite a few extras. It's much faster (which we all know, to be honest). I like & use GNOME a lot, but I think I'll stick with konqueror instead of using this dog slow thing. The idea of the Eazel services is quite interesting. I hope they'll make enough money to keep afloat for a while, so they can spend some time on optimizing nautilus ;)
But I do Know. I've been working with various UNIX versions over the past few years. I tried BeOs, heck I even had a commodore 64 once. Trust me I've seen quite a few GUIs and UIs. While things have improved over the years, Unix never really caught up. Both Gnome, KDE and even enlightenment can be visually very nice. However, it's just a facade over a commandline interface. In fact the latest Gnome and KDE incarnations can hardly be considered as moderately more than a facade. Windows dropped the commandline interface long time ago (well it is still there but you rarely need it), apple probably never had one (I wouldn't know really since I don't use apples). Unix however has one and even more, requires one. The whole UNIX paradigm is based on pipes & filters, small tools, powerfull scripting and so on. In the hands of a trained professional like a programmer or system administrator it is a powerfull tool, specifically designed to make their job easier. However, making such a system usable for non pros requires more than a facade. I have to admit I like both Gnome and KDE. I see a lot of potential, but it's not finished yet.
Now I have seen a lot of Unix people like you. So stuck in the Unix paradigm that they are no longer even capable of using a windows UI. A colleague of mine has programmed C on solaris for years. You should see the poor bastard struggling with windows to accomplish even the most simplest tasks. However it is not windows that is the problem, it is is strong Unix bias. The problem Linux currently has is that the people designing the GUI are this type of persons. They try to understand but they just don't get it.
Jilles
Here is some basic info
http://www.eazel.com/press/release_00_12_18
Intresting to note that Sun will include it with Solaris.
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
Brilliant. Just as RH Fisher and Mandrake 8 are in Beta this is released. Why do I get the feeling that we will have to wait another 6 months before this is integrated in the distro'? Oh sure you can just compile it yourself. But to be honest compiling software is not my hobby, and we all know it takes ages to do (wrong libs dependencies etc). And then still: even if Nautilus is twice as good as the old Gnome, it still won't have the functionality of the Old Win95 GUI. Sure it is more stable, and you get the source code. And it can't be con/con-ed. But John Doe doesn't care anbout that. He just wants something really simple to use. Something which hedoes not have to compile himself. Untill we reach that point, Linux will not be the first choice on the consumer desktop. Which of course is the thing it should be.
If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
While your comments may be true for Suse, I don't think they still hold on for Mandrake. Mandrake was indeed KDE-centric a while ago, but it's not true anymore. Several things to illustrate:
1- All the Mandrake tools, including the installing program, are Gtk-based, not Qt-based.
2- Mandrakesoft is part of both the Gnome foundation and the KDE league.
3- There is absolutely no difference of quality of support between Gnome and KDE within the Mandrake distro. Indeed, I think the default login manager is kdm instead of gdm when you have both installed, but basically, that's it (and it's understantable since gdm still has major troubleshootings, as Gnome folks reckon themselves).
4- There are many Gnome contributors working at Mandrakesoft. The difference is that there is no Mandrakesoft employee who is officially dedicated to this, while there are one or two KDE-dedicated employees. It is supposed to change.
5- I know many of MandrakeSoft folks, and basically, with the important exception of Gael Duval (the founder) and David Faure (the KDE-dedicated employee), their sympathy seems to lean on the Gnome side, or more accurately on the Gtk side.
6- In the Mandrake distro, a window manager such as Icewm is specifically compiled with Imlib and other goodies in order to be fully Gnome-compliant. This is not the case for most other distros, and this is different from the default distribution of Icewm (however, it recently changed with Icewm 1.0.6).
Back to Ximian and Eazel. Ximian still has no support for Mandrake 7.2, while is has been out for more than 4 months now. It is very surprising, since the platforms of libraries on Mandrake 7.2 is almost the same as in 7.1, and has actually been very stable since 6.0. This is not the same with Redhat, especially considering thei recent wacky upgrade to immature versions of gcc/glibc. Still, Redhat 6.1 and Redhat 7.0, are both perfectly supported. Same thing with Eazel. Really, this is very frustrating.
Last, you may want to have a look at a recent interview of Gael Ducal on these issues (not Redaht, but KDE/Gnome policy within Mandrake soft):
http://www.linuxpower.org/display.php?id=206
This "What about Sun? What about BSD?" comment has appeared quite often in this thread.
I have to ask one thing, "Where is it written that all Open Source software must be instantly available for all platforms?" Eazel is in this for money (with their services). Maybe they've decided that there won't be a sufficient return on investment for the time it would take to make Solaris or BSD versions of Nautilus.
Tim
Hi,
Nautilus is a all-in-one explorer (files, web, etc.).
It requires Gnome 1.2.
The closest linux alternative is Konqueror which requires at least kde 2.0.
Go to Eazel's web site for some screenshots.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
-Omar
It's not perfect, but anyone who claims that it's too difficult to use should consider going back to Kindergarten where they belong...
--
Your Servant, B. Baggins
What about Sun Solaris? The *BSDs? I'm kind of surprised by the former (Solaris) as Sun will be using GNOME in the next release. Shouldn't there be more visibility of these projects in that case, and certainly a binary?
Compiling these programs from source is still a nightmare, as differing library versions and such make things difficult at best.
If you want publicity, make sure that people can run this stuff. Not just the Red Hat people.
If there's one thing I would like from the gnome suite of programs, it would be one single thumbnail directory. Nautilus uses the .thumbnail directory, while Gimp uses .xvpics. Can we just agree on one directory and image type (png vs jpg) so we don't clutter up my hard drive with redundant information?
http://www.talknerdy.org
I really hate to have to agree with a comment from someone dissing Linux, but.. here goes.
.. a n y w h e r e :) The downsides to Opera then? Well.. The user interface is quite different from the majority of browsers, including some things I flat out don't like, and you can't change them, like it opens new windows inside its main window, and you can't have it do otherwise, but at least it loads pretty quickly and is SUPER FAST. and for those who care maybe another downside is that it's not GPL'd.
First off, I will say that Mozilla is heaps better than IE in just about everything except for speed. It is far too slow IMO for people who are used to the instant-loading of IE5, and when using IE5, webpages don't take a year to come up.
If you ask me, they should get rid of that cross-platform GUI and make something that's F-A-S-T.. but anyway..
Browser alternatives for Linux:
Konqueror suffers from the same.. In fact, when I used it, it was even *slower* than Mozilla. but at least it doesn't take forever to load.
Galeon: I couldn't even get it to install (from source or RPM (due to RPM saying moz is not installed when it was (by rpm)))
Netscape: This is probably the best over-all solution for right now unfortunately, unless you are not bothered by the shortcomings of Opera (see below).. It is fast, has good, but not extraordinary plugin support, but has broken if any CSS support, crashes often, and has been left behind by the Netscape developers, and it takes forever to load.
Opera: This is what I'm using right now to type this comment. It's what I use whenever I'm viewing pages that don't require Flash, Java, or other plugins, because the Linux version of this browser has absolutely no Java or Plugin support (yet), however, it is lightning fast, rock-solid stable, and conforms to standards, eg. pushing for a world where "best viewed with XXXX browser" is not ever seen
Unfortunately the truth is that there is no browser solution that is equivalent to the ones offered in the Windows environment.
There's been numerous articles in Freshmeat about us losing the browser war. I don't think we're losing it, we're just playing catch up, like we do with certain other things like usb support.
Now, I believe the future of Linux browsing is Mozilla, IF they can speed it up to where it runs as fast as browsers in Windows and doesn't take an eternity to load. Mozilla has excellent HTML and CSS implementations, better than IE5. Mozilla also has plugins for Java and Flash among other things.
Me personally I prefer Linux. The only thing I use Windows for is games and music production. I do everything else (programming, graphics, Net, etc.) on Linux coz I prefer to actually be able to *use* my machine on a non-stop basis instead of having to *wait* to use it.
I will comment on Nautilus, although since v1.0 is finally out, and I was unable to install as of yet (because it requires control-center 1.3 (wtf?)), this might be a little unfair, so keep in mind the latest version I've used is PR3 !
Nautilus uses the libmozembed library to use Mozilla as the base of its web browser, similar to the way Konqueror and Galeon do, and similar to the way the WinAmp browser embeds IE5 in Windows. However, Nautilus took up to 30 seconds to fully load on my Athlon 850 w/128MB of RAM. While for those using Nautilus as a file manager (starting it from Gnome's session management) this may not be a serious problem, those who would use it strictly as a browser will find it is a serious issue. Now again, I was using PR3 and there's been a lot of development in Bonobo and all the other libs, including Nautilus itself since then, and I haven't used 1.0, so.. I can't comment on its current status. When upgrading the Bonobo, OAF, and other libs earlier, Nautilus actually appeared to be faster, which is a good sign.
- Alex
The filemanager for KDE 2.x embeds a terminal window, and it stays in lockstep with main konqueror view. So, when you type "cd..", the file manager backs up a directory, and vice versa. VERY handy, especially if you put the "embed terminal" button right on your toolbar for instant access and bind it to a handy keystroke. You can also always use "kfmclient" to control konqueror from the prompt, like "kfmclient copy COPYURLLIST". Sounds like a long-winded replacement for "cp"? Well, try something like "kfmclient copy http://www.slashdot.org ./slash.html" and behold the power of the kioslave. . .
--JRZ
Nautilus, as with a number of GNOME related projects, does not install at all on my Slackware system. I go to the GNOME Installer homepage, and they list Debian, Red Hat, SuSE, YellowDog... everything BUT Slackware. I get the manual installer, and it won't even run.
This is a disturbing trend -- I find a significant number of prominent open source projects that refuse to run (or run, but not well) on all but a few distros. Is this because of laziness? RPMs are easier for the developers to deal with, sure, but you're cutting off a very large portion of the community. Does NOBODY test things on non-RPM or non-DEB distros?
Last time I checked, Slackware was still a very significant part of the Linux community. I choose to use a system that's been around for years, is incredibly stable, and is as much Linux as any other distribution. Yet I can't even try out a lot of these new and interesting software packages. This recent trend of "Red Hat is Linux" and similar approaches to development doesn't strike me as being in line with the whole freedom of choice bit that our community flaunts so much.
Since when do we care about this 'John Doe' character? Honestly, if this displeases you go use /bin/sh. Or maybe even WindowMaker, or Midnight Commander, or...who cares what you use, not me!
It sounds like people like you really don't know what they need to do what they're doing because they don't know what they're doing...
:wq
I started reading "Hyperion" yesterday ...
noticed that name today ... small universe ...
Fry for Who.
Even better (for us Aussies) is the fact that Handspring will now be in Australia. Read this article from Australian IT.
EFM (enlightenment file manager). I have been waiting for that for a while. I'd like to see how E's stuff stack up against the two big FMs. Just my two cents
"I have great faith in fools: Self confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allan Poe