Are you really trying to suppose that Tesla is not only withholding evidence, but they're withholding evidence that would prove their product innocent?
No, I figure that the evidence is either not really decisive(at least not as much as the logs), irrelevant, or not listed because, well, these things get edited for length and article writers tend to drop stuff.
Musk probably figures what he's released is good enough - faulty socket, not faulty Tesla Product.
Yea, well, Elon Musk isn't a trained fire investigator, so please excuse me for not taking him at his word.
No one can get to the Moon and no one has the resources to do so. Realistically this is something we'll have to figure out in a hundred years, not every time someone lands a rover on the moon.
We went from the Wright brothers flight to landing a couple dudes on the Moon in less than 60 years. Because we had a reason.
Never underestimate the drive and ability of human beings with a purpose.
It's not like the Moon has native wildlife that we might disrupt. It's an airless lifeless rock right now. Why would we want to bother trying to preserve it in that state?
Um, because humans have a tendency to royally fuck up every environmental factor we can get our grubby little meathooks on, and the Moon plays a vital role in the tidal flow of our oceans?
If we mine a shitload of material out of the moon, won't that affect it's gravitational effect on the planet?
HUGE difference between observing a vehicle's location and searching the vehicle.
HUGE difference between the statement "no expectation of privacy when driving a vehicle on public roads" and reality.
BTW, police do not need a warrant to search your car if they observe an illegal item on the dashboard or passenger seat. If the item is in plain site they can stop you and then search the rest of your vehicle without any warrant.
Plain 'sight,' and yea, that's called "being in the commission of a crime," and when you're in that state you forfeit a lot of rights. But that has nothing to do with OP claiming that there's "no expectation of privacy when driving a vehicle on public roads," unless you add the addendum, "while you're blatantly breaking the law."
That would be a piece of evidence, not the whole body of it.
How do we know that Musk(and his failure-analysis team) didn't review more evidence than just the logs?
Because his personality type doesn't allow for not talking about himself at every given opportunity?
Are you really trying to suppose that Tesla is not only withholding evidence, but they're withholding evidence that would prove their product innocent?
As much as I obviously do not care for the man, I'm pretty sure neither he, nor the people that run his company, are that stupid.
There are 17 vehicle fires every hour. Or 150,000/yr. There aren't enough front pages.
Yup, which is why the only ones that are considered newsworthy by the MSM are the oddball ones. Like when 5 or 6 models of a brand new type of car that's only existed for 2 years mysteriously (or less-than-mysteriously) burst into flames in the course of 12 months.
But that's not to say that "normal" car fires, and even the potential for car fires, doesn't make national news on a regular basis.
Is this enough to get the Tesla fanboys to shut the fuck up and stop acting like some sort of singled-out pariahs? How about this? Are six hundred ninety six million hits good enough for them? Probably not.
Boston police apparently "abandoned" their license-plate reading program after reporters found out they weren't using it for the stated purpose of finding stolen vehicles.
They would not have recalled 3.4 million vehicles if none of them caught fire. Your contention is wrong.
No, you just don't understand how automotive recalls work.
In this example, once Ford found out about the problem (I won't speculate as to how, because it doesn't matter), they called in the lawyers and had a little pow-wow:
"Which is going to be cheaper for us: recalling 3.4 million vehicles and fixing them, or paying out settlements to the handful of people who will be injured AND sue?"
Obviously in this case, the lawyers recommended a recall.
Inhuman? Hell yea, but nobody ever accused a corporation of having human qualities, amirite?
Teslas are receiving a disproportionate amount of coverage over this. This may be because they are electric, but claiming the coverage is not disproportionate is silly. We did not see weekly articles concerning every ford fire in 2007 but we get them for the Teslas.
Two words: Ford. Pinto.
You damn near couldn't turn on a news report in the 1980's without hearing about Ford's Amazing, Flaming Pinto-mobile. Plus, that's not the first, nor only time an auto manufacturer has been run through the ringer for selling (or potentially selling) fucked-up cars. You are letting your Musk-rat love blind you to reality.
Because if the answer is anything other than "you, the person who owns the device, and nobody else," then you can go ahead and shove that kill-switch up your corn-shooter.
Ford Motor Co. is recalling as many as 3.6 million cars, truck, and vans because a switch that deactivates the speed control can overheat and catch fire according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The agency warns in its recall notice that the switch problem can cause a fire under the hood.
The latest recall covers 16 brands of cars, sport utility vehicles and trucks from model years 1992 to 2004.
The models include the Ford Ranger, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Lincoln Mark VIII, Ford Taurus SHO, Mercury Capri, Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, Ford Explorer Sport and Explorer Sport Trac, Ford E-150-350, Ford E-450, Ford Bronco, Ford F-150 Lightning, some models of F-Series trucks and Ford F53 Motor Home chassis.
Well sir I expect you to eat some crow. You may proceed immediately.
Why? That doesn't disprove my contention, you know.
I guarantee you that at least one modern generation Mustang has been destroyed in a garage fire.
Sure, but was it one of the first 20,000 units out the door, and less than 2 years old when that happened? Because those are important factors to consider.
I'm normally one of the first people to bust his balls, but this time around I'll give Elon a little credit: Denying any wrongdoing right out of the gate is SOP with American corporations.
Of course fire investigators will point to a piece of new technology as the cause of the fire. It's easy and they are lazy. Just like videogames are the cause of all school shootings.
And before that, it was cell phones causing brain cancer, And before that it was rock and roll music causing children to misbehave.
How, considering the complete lack of evidence at this point, is that any different than Musk claiming that it had to have been anything but his products?
The correct answer, BTW, is that it's not different at all.
Slashdot Mirror
Not an imminent problem to solve!
Thought that but wasn't sure, so figured it was worth asking.
Are you really trying to suppose that Tesla is not only withholding evidence, but they're withholding evidence that would prove their product innocent?
No, I figure that the evidence is either not really decisive(at least not as much as the logs), irrelevant, or not listed because, well, these things get edited for length and article writers tend to drop stuff.
Musk probably figures what he's released is good enough - faulty socket, not faulty Tesla Product.
Yea, well, Elon Musk isn't a trained fire investigator, so please excuse me for not taking him at his word.
What, exactly, is obsolete about the 1911? It's still one of the best, most reliable guns you can buy.
Some people measure obsolescence in actual years, as opposed to years of usefulness.
I'm guessing OP isn't a big fan of rulers, either.
Just buy yourself a CNC mill and print your own real guns.
FTFY.
The AK's I saw at the last gun show ranged from $650 up to $2000. Where are you getting them for $30?
Crazy Achmed's Firearm and Shovel Emporium
Sure, if you REALLY want to risk engraving shit on to live rounds.
Done it a million times.
Don't be such a chickenshit.
Fortunately, you can still buy a factory-made .45 for a few hundred dollars. 3D printing has a long way to go.
I think the point is not everywhere in the world....
Now can they print ammunition.
... which is still going to be orders of magnitude cheaper and easier to do the good ol' fashioned way.
No one can get to the Moon and no one has the resources to do so. Realistically this is something we'll have to figure out in a hundred years, not every time someone lands a rover on the moon.
We went from the Wright brothers flight to landing a couple dudes on the Moon in less than 60 years. Because we had a reason.
Never underestimate the drive and ability of human beings with a purpose.
It's not like the Moon has native wildlife that we might disrupt. It's an airless lifeless rock right now. Why would we want to bother trying to preserve it in that state?
Um, because humans have a tendency to royally fuck up every environmental factor we can get our grubby little meathooks on, and the Moon plays a vital role in the tidal flow of our oceans?
If we mine a shitload of material out of the moon, won't that affect it's gravitational effect on the planet?
HUGE difference between observing a vehicle's location and searching the vehicle.
HUGE difference between the statement "no expectation of privacy when driving a vehicle on public roads" and reality.
BTW, police do not need a warrant to search your car if they observe an illegal item on the dashboard or passenger seat. If the item is in plain site they can stop you and then search the rest of your vehicle without any warrant.
Plain 'sight,' and yea, that's called "being in the commission of a crime," and when you're in that state you forfeit a lot of rights. But that has nothing to do with OP claiming that there's "no expectation of privacy when driving a vehicle on public roads," unless you add the addendum, "while you're blatantly breaking the law."
That 'warrant' thing has been watered down to probable cause with regard to the search of an auto where we reside.
Probable cause has been watered down to the eye-of-the-beholder method, often adjudicated by a 20 year old with a marine haircut.
23 year old (minimum age requirement).
Otherwise, yea.
That would be a piece of evidence, not the whole body of it.
How do we know that Musk(and his failure-analysis team) didn't review more evidence than just the logs?
Because his personality type doesn't allow for not talking about himself at every given opportunity?
Are you really trying to suppose that Tesla is not only withholding evidence, but they're withholding evidence that would prove their product innocent?
As much as I obviously do not care for the man, I'm pretty sure neither he, nor the people that run his company, are that stupid.
There are 17 vehicle fires every hour. Or 150,000/yr. There aren't enough front pages.
Yup, which is why the only ones that are considered newsworthy by the MSM are the oddball ones. Like when 5 or 6 models of a brand new type of car that's only existed for 2 years mysteriously (or less-than-mysteriously) burst into flames in the course of 12 months.
But that's not to say that "normal" car fires, and even the potential for car fires, doesn't make national news on a regular basis.
Here is an article from just last year, about how Ford Explorers are infamous for catching fire.
Is this enough to get the Tesla fanboys to shut the fuck up and stop acting like some sort of singled-out pariahs? How about this? Are six hundred ninety six million hits good enough for them? Probably not.
I calls em like I sees em.
And what I see is an American corporation doing what American corporations do: denying fault.
Me, I'm gonna wait till all the cards hit the table before I start placing bets on who or what is to blame.
There is no expectation of privacy when driving a vehicle on public roads.
Bullshit.
If that were true, they wouldn't need a warrant to search your car.
Boston police apparently "abandoned" their license-plate reading program after reporters found out they weren't using it for the stated purpose of finding stolen vehicles.
FTFY - you forgot the scare quotes.
Actually, Musk has the charging logs from the car, showing that it was charging normally when the fire started.
(That would be evidence.)
That would be a piece of evidence, not the whole body of it.
If it was stolen from you, then how is it that you have it to sell?
Big ol' Whoo-
Hey! That fucker stole the rest of my whoosh!
Damn you, Princeofcups!
They would not have recalled 3.4 million vehicles if none of them caught fire. Your contention is wrong.
No, you just don't understand how automotive recalls work.
In this example, once Ford found out about the problem (I won't speculate as to how, because it doesn't matter), they called in the lawyers and had a little pow-wow:
"Which is going to be cheaper for us: recalling 3.4 million vehicles and fixing them, or paying out settlements to the handful of people who will be injured AND sue?"
Obviously in this case, the lawyers recommended a recall.
Inhuman? Hell yea, but nobody ever accused a corporation of having human qualities, amirite?
Teslas are receiving a disproportionate amount of coverage over this. This may be because they are electric, but claiming the coverage is not disproportionate is silly. We did not see weekly articles concerning every ford fire in 2007 but we get them for the Teslas.
Two words: Ford. Pinto.
You damn near couldn't turn on a news report in the 1980's without hearing about Ford's Amazing, Flaming Pinto-mobile. Plus, that's not the first, nor only time an auto manufacturer has been run through the ringer for selling (or potentially selling) fucked-up cars. You are letting your Musk-rat love blind you to reality.
So, who has control over this "kill switch?"
Because if the answer is anything other than "you, the person who owns the device, and nobody else," then you can go ahead and shove that kill-switch up your corn-shooter.
Date of article: 08/04/2007
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/ford_massive_recall.html
Ford Motor Co. is recalling as many as 3.6 million cars, truck, and vans because a switch that deactivates the speed control can overheat and catch fire according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
The agency warns in its recall notice that the switch problem can cause a fire under the hood.
The latest recall covers 16 brands of cars, sport utility vehicles and trucks from model years 1992 to 2004.
The models include the Ford Ranger, Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, Lincoln Mark VIII, Ford Taurus SHO, Mercury Capri, Ford Explorer, Mercury Mountaineer, Ford Explorer Sport and Explorer Sport Trac, Ford E-150-350, Ford E-450, Ford Bronco, Ford F-150 Lightning, some models of F-Series trucks and Ford F53 Motor Home chassis.
Well sir I expect you to eat some crow. You may proceed immediately.
Why? That doesn't disprove my contention, you know.
"Might catch fire" != "caught fire"
It's statistics. Garage fires are not uncommon, and Ford has manufactured a lot of Mustangs since 2007.
Whereas Tesla has only sold about 20,000 Model S'. Since 2012.
Which is why the Model S fires are considered newsworthy, and Mustang fires are not.
I guarantee you that at least one modern generation Mustang has been destroyed in a garage fire.
Sure, but was it one of the first 20,000 units out the door, and less than 2 years old when that happened? Because those are important factors to consider.
I'm normally one of the first people to bust his balls, but this time around I'll give Elon a little credit: Denying any wrongdoing right out of the gate is SOP with American corporations.
Of course fire investigators will point to a piece of new technology as the cause of the fire. It's easy and they are lazy. Just like videogames are the cause of all school shootings.
And before that, it was cell phones causing brain cancer,
And before that it was rock and roll music causing children to misbehave.
How, considering the complete lack of evidence at this point, is that any different than Musk claiming that it had to have been anything but his products?
The correct answer, BTW, is that it's not different at all.