You gotta look at power/weight ratios if you want to have a reliable, fair comparison. I'm still searching for a gasoline car that has a similar weight (2,700 lbs) and output (288 hp) as the Roadster, but heavy sports cars with that little HP are fairly rare... The closest I've gotten so far is a MX5 Miata (similar HP, half the Tesla's weight) and a Z06 Corvette (similar weight, twice the HP).
Something definitely worth mentioning in the Tesla car's favor - ~3 second 0-60 time in a sub-300 HP, 1.5 ton auto is impressive. Damn impressive.
Again, I have no sympathy for Rand, but you can't force people into a system and then call them hypocrites because they want to recoup their losses.
I'm not calling her a hypocrite for using the system, I'm calling her a hypocrite for being such an unholy bitch to everyone who used said system other than herself. If that's not hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what is.
I have a lot of CFL's in my house, which isn't far off from your example save the addition of an extra bedroom and bathroom.
1) Not every room has a single light fixture, and not every light fixture uses a single bulb. I have 2 fixtures in my living room, each with 2 bulbs. That's 4 bulbs in one room alone.
2) Lamps. Back to my living room - 2x2 ceiling fixtures, + 2 single bulb lamps (needed to get the room close to as bright as it would be with incandescents. That's a total of 6 bulbs in one room.
So, let's see...
Living area = 6 bulbs
Kitchen/dining area = 7 bulbs (need good light in your kitchen, after all)
Hallway = 2 (single 2 bulb fixture)
bedroom 1 = 2 (1 fixture, 1 lamp)
Bedroom 2/office = 3 (1 fixture, 2 lamps)
Master Br = 6 (2 pot lights, 2 in center fixture, 2 lamps)
Master Ba = 4 ('vanity' lights over the sink)
other Ba = 2 (2 separate 1 bulb fixtures)
That's 32 bulbs in my house, and I'm probably leaving a lamp or two out.
According to the 2010 census, there are an estimated 114,825,428 households in the U.S. Assuming an average replacement rate of 2 bulbs a year, you're looking at 229,650,856 CFL's going to landfills annually. Each CFL contains about 5mg of mercury, which would mean that about 230 kilograms of mercury would end up in landfills each year.
230 kilos is not what I would consider a trivial amount.
They are not against energy efficiency, but the idea of government telling you what you should buy.
And they aren't telling you what to buy. They're imposing regulations on the market that, unsurprisingly, push inefficient bulbs out.
Yea, just like how, back in the day, they didn't tell people they weren't allowed to grow and possess marijuana anymore, they just created a regulation that said you have to have this special stamp to grow/possess the plant. Then the flat refused to give any out. See? We're not 'controlling your behavior,' we're "regulating the market!" Completely different.
And hey, it's not like the pot regulations are a complete farce wasting billions of tax dollars every year to do absolutely nothing, right? But, even in the absence of any evidence to support the idea, and plenty to the contrary, this time it will actually work out way better, right?
Why should it cost jobs? I'm pretty certain most of the CFC/LED bulb technology is western in origin, and the markups on such bulbs are probably bigger than the old filament bulbs, so why is there not a shiny US factory making these things?
Because the Chinese will make them for fractions-of-a-penny on the dollar, and there's no law stopping American corporations from shipping all their manufacturing overseas.
Beyond just the fact that up-front costs suck, if you're poor and your kid knocks over your lamp you're out $23. If you're poor and you move then unless you plan on bringing your bulbs with you, risking shattering them in the move, you're out the $23 each.
$23 is dinner for a week if you're poor. It's only a light bulb if you're rich.
Well, then, I guess we can roll 'electric lighting' in with cars and phones on the list of Things Poor People Need But Well-Off People Don't Think They Should Have.
In fairness,
2002 Pontiac Trans AM WS6 actual range = 224 mi/tank
2012 Tesla Roadster EPA estimated range (Per Wikipedia): 244 mi/charge
Yea, that's far from a fair comparison, which I assume was your point - putting a 2 door roadster and 4 door sedan side by side isn't really the best comparison to make, as they are different vehicle classes, just as your example is bad due to the extreme power/weight ratio differences.
However, if one were to compare the range of the Tesla S (265 mi/charge) with the TDI Jetta (493 mi/tank), you do get a fairly accurate summary of how far electrics need to go to catch up to internal combustion engines.
I'm still looking for a good car to compare with the Roadster, but it's proving a challenge - there aren't a lot of near 3,000 lb, 2 seat sports cars out there with less than 300 hp...
Depends what you're comparing with: 1995 Chevy Tracker...
I'm definitely not comparing a brand new, modern electric car with a near 20 year old beater. That would just be silly hyperbole, and I'll have no part of it.
You're still talking about 3 hours or so of driving. It's not unreasonable after that time to take a break.
See, I make a number of these 3-4 hour trips every year to see family, and yea, it's a good idea to take a break about halfway through - break as in, stop somewhere, maybe grab a quick bite to eat (10-15 min), have a smoke (5 min), then back on the road. 20 minute stop, tops.
With the Tesla car you're looking at a 30 minute minimum, which assumes the charging pod you pull up to is A) currenly unoccupied, and B) has enough charge left within to actually fill your batteries in that 30 minute time frame - $deity help you if someone else had filled up theirs right before you pulled up, or if there's any sort of line at the "pump."
Look, I'm not saying electric cars are a bad idea - much to the contrary, stick a handful of solar panels on the surfaces of the things, and you've got the perfect in-town commuter car; But to say that current electric car range is on par with that of a modern fossil fuel automobile is just plain dishonest.
I'm no fan of her ideology, but playing Devil's advocate, let's say a thief steals your car and leaves his bike behind. Is it hypocrisy to use the bike to get to work and still criticize the thief?
If you spent your entire life up to that point demonizing bikes and their riders, accusing them of being the number one social fault in the world, then yes, it's the definition of hypocrisy.
If some hacker came up with this thing in his garage, I'd cut 'im some slack, but... Toyota doesn't have the engineering knowhow to embed a damn webcam/screen combo, so they duct-tape an iPad to the thing? Really?
I used to think that all those instances of "unintended acceleration" could be chalked up to user error, but after seeing this, I'm not so sure anymore...
Anywhoodlidoodle, don't worry sir(or ma'am), you need not fear paying for check-ups, immunizations, and whatnot. You can simply wait and pay tons more for what could have been easily preventable emergency care. Just like Rand would have wanted.
Actually, ol' Ayn would have preferred they die in the street, assuming it's not a street she frequents.
Who pays to clear the bodies away?
Well, assuming we're still in the Rand-ian dystopic fantasy world - no one; somebody "smart" will find a way to turn all those corpses into profit, of course!
The only reason you can drive gasoline cars long distances is because "charging stations" (aka "Gas Stations") have been built on every corner.
The Tesla has about the same range as a gas car, but the infrastructure has yet to catch up
2012 Tesla Roadster EPA estimated range (Per Wikipedia): 244 mi/charge
Anywhoodlidoodle, don't worry sir(or ma'am), you need not fear paying for check-ups, immunizations, and whatnot. You can simply wait and pay tons more for what could have been easily preventable emergency care. Just like Rand would have wanted.
Actually, ol' Ayn would have preferred they die in the street, assuming it's not a street she frequents.
It can also wear a tablet atop its head, which would allow caregivers and family members to communicate with the robot's owner over Skype or other services.
Riiiight... 'cuz, you know, building in a webcam and LCD would just be... obtuse.
We must ban this weapons-grade steel for the good of our children. Bronze is good enough for knives for shaving, tanning hides, working the fields. We don't need steel. The steel industry tries to convince us that steel has peaceful uses but we know that steel weapons easily fall into the hands of bandits and brigands. Arsenic poisoning is simply a lie by big steel so that they can create their death tools. In reality, bronze is safe, reliable and fulfills our tool needs.
Uh-huh, that's exactly what a pro-bronze shill like yourself would want us to think!
Obviously, anything more advanced than rocks tied to sticks is far to dangerous to be allowed to fall into the 'wrong hands,' better go ahead and ban it all...
We can't have weapons grade material floating around, now can we?
Something I've always thought a stupid concept, honestly.
Maybe "weapons-grade" fissile materials wouldn't be such an issue, if our species were smart enough to find uses for said materials other than killing each other.
... in that it requires ever Muslim on the planet (all 2,500,000,000+ of them) share the exact same dogmatic view...
Muslims are not the problem.
Islam is the problem. The fact that most Muslims are not evil is entirely unrelated to the fact that they profess to follow Islam and completely related to the fact that most people have basic human decency regardless of the twisted belief systems they're force-fed as kids.
No; Islam, i.e. the religion itself, is an inanimate object - inanimate objects are incapable of good or evil. Rather, it is how the inanimate object is applied by people that is at issue. Might as well blame hammers for cracked skulls.
One could just as easily substitute "Muslim" and "Islam" in your statement with any dogmatic belief system and its followers and come to an equally flawed conclusion.
just because the republicans base their laws on religious doctrine(and ultimately fails to pass those laws) doesnt mean that the democrats have no reason to pass laws that infringe on our rights
In layman's terms - just because someone points out that Group A is a bunch of douchebags, does not necessarily imply they think Group B is not a bunch of douchebags.
Sad that I feel compelled to simplify it so, but some folks gotta make everything a pissing contest, you know?
Not only is it a reasonably good anti-malware tool, its the least intrusive one I've ever used, both as far as annoying popups and abusing system resources. My first download on any new Windows install.
Yup, I recently switched all my Windows boxes to MSE from AVG, as AVG started giving me fits after the v.11 update.
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You gotta look at power/weight ratios if you want to have a reliable, fair comparison. I'm still searching for a gasoline car that has a similar weight (2,700 lbs) and output (288 hp) as the Roadster, but heavy sports cars with that little HP are fairly rare... The closest I've gotten so far is a MX5 Miata (similar HP, half the Tesla's weight) and a Z06 Corvette (similar weight, twice the HP).
Something definitely worth mentioning in the Tesla car's favor - ~3 second 0-60 time in a sub-300 HP, 1.5 ton auto is impressive. Damn impressive.
Again, I have no sympathy for Rand, but you can't force people into a system and then call them hypocrites because they want to recoup their losses.
I'm not calling her a hypocrite for using the system, I'm calling her a hypocrite for being such an unholy bitch to everyone who used said system other than herself. If that's not hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what is.
It's a bit strange. Here in Holland we are not supposed to use light bulbs anymore...
So.. candles?
I have a lot of CFL's in my house, which isn't far off from your example save the addition of an extra bedroom and bathroom.
1) Not every room has a single light fixture, and not every light fixture uses a single bulb. I have 2 fixtures in my living room, each with 2 bulbs. That's 4 bulbs in one room alone.
2) Lamps. Back to my living room - 2x2 ceiling fixtures, + 2 single bulb lamps (needed to get the room close to as bright as it would be with incandescents. That's a total of 6 bulbs in one room.
So, let's see...
Living area = 6 bulbs
Kitchen/dining area = 7 bulbs (need good light in your kitchen, after all)
Hallway = 2 (single 2 bulb fixture)
bedroom 1 = 2 (1 fixture, 1 lamp)
Bedroom 2/office = 3 (1 fixture, 2 lamps)
Master Br = 6 (2 pot lights, 2 in center fixture, 2 lamps)
Master Ba = 4 ('vanity' lights over the sink)
other Ba = 2 (2 separate 1 bulb fixtures)
That's 32 bulbs in my house, and I'm probably leaving a lamp or two out.
According to the 2010 census, there are an estimated 114,825,428 households in the U.S. Assuming an average replacement rate of 2 bulbs a year, you're looking at 229,650,856 CFL's going to landfills annually. Each CFL contains about 5mg of mercury, which would mean that about 230 kilograms of mercury would end up in landfills each year.
230 kilos is not what I would consider a trivial amount.
So hey! how 'bout them corporate masters?
And they aren't telling you what to buy. They're imposing regulations on the market that, unsurprisingly, push inefficient bulbs out.
Yea, just like how, back in the day, they didn't tell people they weren't allowed to grow and possess marijuana anymore, they just created a regulation that said you have to have this special stamp to grow/possess the plant. Then the flat refused to give any out. See? We're not 'controlling your behavior,' we're "regulating the market!" Completely different.
And hey, it's not like the pot regulations are a complete farce wasting billions of tax dollars every year to do absolutely nothing, right? But, even in the absence of any evidence to support the idea, and plenty to the contrary, this time it will actually work out way better, right?
Right?
Why should it cost jobs? I'm pretty certain most of the CFC/LED bulb technology is western in origin, and the markups on such bulbs are probably bigger than the old filament bulbs, so why is there not a shiny US factory making these things?
Because the Chinese will make them for fractions-of-a-penny on the dollar, and there's no law stopping American corporations from shipping all their manufacturing overseas.
Beyond just the fact that up-front costs suck, if you're poor and your kid knocks over your lamp you're out $23. If you're poor and you move then unless you plan on bringing your bulbs with you, risking shattering them in the move, you're out the $23 each.
$23 is dinner for a week if you're poor. It's only a light bulb if you're rich.
Well, then, I guess we can roll 'electric lighting' in with cars and phones on the list of Things Poor People Need But Well-Off People Don't Think They Should Have.
In fairness, 2002 Pontiac Trans AM WS6 actual range = 224 mi/tank 2012 Tesla Roadster EPA estimated range (Per Wikipedia): 244 mi/charge
Yea, that's far from a fair comparison, which I assume was your point - putting a 2 door roadster and 4 door sedan side by side isn't really the best comparison to make, as they are different vehicle classes, just as your example is bad due to the extreme power/weight ratio differences.
However, if one were to compare the range of the Tesla S (265 mi/charge) with the TDI Jetta (493 mi/tank), you do get a fairly accurate summary of how far electrics need to go to catch up to internal combustion engines.
I'm still looking for a good car to compare with the Roadster, but it's proving a challenge - there aren't a lot of near 3,000 lb, 2 seat sports cars out there with less than 300 hp...
Depends what you're comparing with:
1995 Chevy Tracker...
I'm definitely not comparing a brand new, modern electric car with a near 20 year old beater. That would just be silly hyperbole, and I'll have no part of it.
You're still talking about 3 hours or so of driving. It's not unreasonable after that time to take a break.
See, I make a number of these 3-4 hour trips every year to see family, and yea, it's a good idea to take a break about halfway through - break as in, stop somewhere, maybe grab a quick bite to eat (10-15 min), have a smoke (5 min), then back on the road. 20 minute stop, tops.
With the Tesla car you're looking at a 30 minute minimum, which assumes the charging pod you pull up to is A) currenly unoccupied, and B) has enough charge left within to actually fill your batteries in that 30 minute time frame - $deity help you if someone else had filled up theirs right before you pulled up, or if there's any sort of line at the "pump."
Look, I'm not saying electric cars are a bad idea - much to the contrary, stick a handful of solar panels on the surfaces of the things, and you've got the perfect in-town commuter car; But to say that current electric car range is on par with that of a modern fossil fuel automobile is just plain dishonest.
He might be enjoying it - could be a masochist...
Nope, electro-sadist - I also flog the poor thing regularly with a Cat-o-Nine-Tails, just to keep it in line.
Question: Why is there more than 7000000000 people on earth? Answer: We are not as good at killing each other as our own dogma would have us believe.
Quick GN hangup - that should be "Why are there..." not "Why is there." Ah, I feel better, back on topic:
Disagree; my response: "We're not nearly as occupied with killing each other as we are with breeding."
I'm no fan of her ideology, but playing Devil's advocate, let's say a thief steals your car and leaves his bike behind. Is it hypocrisy to use the bike to get to work and still criticize the thief?
If you spent your entire life up to that point demonizing bikes and their riders, accusing them of being the number one social fault in the world, then yes, it's the definition of hypocrisy.
Because that is better than the tablet, how?
Meh, seems lazy.
If some hacker came up with this thing in his garage, I'd cut 'im some slack, but... Toyota doesn't have the engineering knowhow to embed a damn webcam/screen combo, so they duct-tape an iPad to the thing? Really?
I used to think that all those instances of "unintended acceleration" could be chalked up to user error, but after seeing this, I'm not so sure anymore...
Anywhoodlidoodle, don't worry sir(or ma'am), you need not fear paying for check-ups, immunizations, and whatnot. You can simply wait and pay tons more for what could have been easily preventable emergency care. Just like Rand would have wanted.
Actually, ol' Ayn would have preferred they die in the street, assuming it's not a street she frequents.
Who pays to clear the bodies away?
Well, assuming we're still in the Rand-ian dystopic fantasy world - no one; somebody "smart" will find a way to turn all those corpses into profit, of course!
Anybody care for some Soylent Cola?
In fairness:
2012 Tesla Model S EPA estimated range (Wikipedia again): 265 mi/charge.
The only reason you can drive gasoline cars long distances is because "charging stations" (aka "Gas Stations") have been built on every corner. The Tesla has about the same range as a gas car, but the infrastructure has yet to catch up
2012 Tesla Roadster EPA estimated range (Per Wikipedia): 244 mi/charge
2012 VW Jetta TDI EPA estimated range (Per MotorTrend): 493 mi/tank
Since when does "less than half" == "about the same range?"
Anywhoodlidoodle, don't worry sir(or ma'am), you need not fear paying for check-ups, immunizations, and whatnot. You can simply wait and pay tons more for what could have been easily preventable emergency care. Just like Rand would have wanted.
Actually, ol' Ayn would have preferred they die in the street, assuming it's not a street she frequents.
Riiiight... 'cuz, you know, building in a webcam and LCD would just be... obtuse.
We must ban this weapons-grade steel for the good of our children. Bronze is good enough for knives for shaving, tanning hides, working the fields. We don't need steel. The steel industry tries to convince us that steel has peaceful uses but we know that steel weapons easily fall into the hands of bandits and brigands. Arsenic poisoning is simply a lie by big steel so that they can create their death tools. In reality, bronze is safe, reliable and fulfills our tool needs.
Uh-huh, that's exactly what a pro-bronze shill like yourself would want us to think!
Obviously, anything more advanced than rocks tied to sticks is far to dangerous to be allowed to fall into the 'wrong hands,' better go ahead and ban it all...
We can't have weapons grade material floating around, now can we?
Something I've always thought a stupid concept, honestly.
Maybe "weapons-grade" fissile materials wouldn't be such an issue, if our species were smart enough to find uses for said materials other than killing each other.
Muslims are not the problem.
Islam is the problem. The fact that most Muslims are not evil is entirely unrelated to the fact that they profess to follow Islam and completely related to the fact that most people have basic human decency regardless of the twisted belief systems they're force-fed as kids.
No; Islam, i.e. the religion itself, is an inanimate object - inanimate objects are incapable of good or evil. Rather, it is how the inanimate object is applied by people that is at issue. Might as well blame hammers for cracked skulls.
One could just as easily substitute "Muslim" and "Islam" in your statement with any dogmatic belief system and its followers and come to an equally flawed conclusion.
just because the republicans base their laws on religious doctrine(and ultimately fails to pass those laws) doesnt mean that the democrats have no reason to pass laws that infringe on our rights
In layman's terms - just because someone points out that Group A is a bunch of douchebags, does not necessarily imply they think Group B is not a bunch of douchebags.
Sad that I feel compelled to simplify it so, but some folks gotta make everything a pissing contest, you know?
IPX/SPX FTW!
...
Half of me wants to punch you right now.
The other half want's to climb to the mountaintop and shout "APPLETALK!!!"
Not only is it a reasonably good anti-malware tool, its the least intrusive one I've ever used, both as far as annoying popups and abusing system resources. My first download on any new Windows install.
Yup, I recently switched all my Windows boxes to MSE from AVG, as AVG started giving me fits after the v.11 update.
Have yet to find a reason to switch again.