yeah. that's the main argument against giving candidates tests... that some people don't do well in a stressed situation like an interview. All I can say to that is you have to -try- to evaluate them.
Remember it's stressful for the interviewer as well as the candidate. The situation is unatural for both parties. In the end, the interviewer is trying to get a read on reality. That read is affected by the skills of both the interviewer and the candidate. It's also affected by whatever handicap each side incurs by virtue of the interview situation itself. So I guess there are 4 factors at play: skill of candidate, skill of interviewer, situational handicap of candidate, situational handicap of interviewer.
A simple programming exercise shouldn't cause someone to crumble. In an interview without a programming test, where you're only conducting probative discussions, a misread of the candidate could result from any of the 4 factors above. In an interview with a programming test, you get a reading where 2 of the four factors are not present. If a candidate can't complete the test (a properly designed/conducted test), then you're faced with 2 conclusions; either this guy can't code his way out of a paper bag or the interview setting itself occasioned a near total collapse of his faculties. In the first instance, the interview has worked as a filter with a bias toward exclusion. In the second, it's very difficult to pursue any further. There may be some way to overlook the result and make a case that he will nevertheless do well in some capacity at the company. Perhaps there's some undeniable track record of technological successes that he can offer. All I know is I have 3 more candidates coming in, and probably 10 more in the hopper for the rest of the week.
yeah that sucks. IF you get someone who solves your problem in a way you weren't expecting, that's -good-. Having a follow on informal discussion about other ways to solve it is even better as you're getting into the candidate's mind, personality etc.
because it's a dirt simple CS 101 exercise. You need a loop, array indexing, swapping values. If a candidate can't bang that out on the whiteboard with his eyes closed, there should be major red flags in hiring him. And trust me, people with nice looking resumes will actually have trouble with it.
That's why as part of the interview team you need to set up some programming tests that constitute basic pass or fail. Like: do basic CRUD in a pseudo language of your choice. Reverse a string of characters in a pseudo code. You'd be surprised at the proportion of "MS" degreed people who can -barely- get through the string reversal. But when you get someone who's a true coder, it's a breeze and a joy watching him do it and talk about it. And he will not suck as a full time coworker.
right. But how long would it be until the special election, a year? In the meantime, there's a republican incumbent in there, the democrats don't have 60 seats, and by the time the special election happens, the environment may be better for him to keep the seat.
A) bush is going to pardon himself, his whole administration and probably tubes too. B) Bush is still the prez after the election up until jan 20th. So mr. tubes's hope for a pardon has northing to do with the timing of the election. It may have something to do with the timing of the inauguration if he thought his trial would still be going by then. C) mr tubes f'd up royally by selfishly pushing to finish the trial before the election. Now that he's convicted, he's going to lose to the democrat. If he had let the trial go past the election he would've won reelection (his number were high especially with palin on the ticket). Then if he had been convicted, palin could have appointed another republican to take his place.
So to wrap up: he didn't need to win the trial to win the election; if he lost the trial before the election, the democrat would win and he'd go to jail; if he lost the trial after the election, there would still be a republican in there and he'd go to jail.
So now he gets to go to jail AND give the senate seat to the opposing party.
When we've hired programmers before, we get candidates with all kinds of degrees and background that can't write psuedo code to reverse a string of characters or sort a linked list. But then we get one who bangs it out. A good resume doesn't look so good anymore after the person can't do something simple on a whiteboard or paper.
Rights of people in US society continually expand and refine over the history of the nation. What no one questioned 20,30,50,100 years ago becomes widely accepted as a befitting and necessary component to a modern society. Black children obtained the right to go to schools with white children. Women have the right to vote which "requires time and resources". Everyone has a right to education which "requires time and resources". The right to be seen in an emergency room. The right to social security. These may not be "inalienable" rights, but by virtue of the fact that we're trying to have a society here, we can decide what everyone members' practical rights are.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people
like the right to marry whoever you want and the right to health care and the right to privacy which is the first line of defense pursuant to "the security of a free state"
Wow even a slashdot user 137 can post racist articles.
Quotes from the first article...
"being a Negro in America" "uppity Negro" "upstart Negro" "Magic Negro" "Negro clown Alan Keyes" "Negro libido and psyche" "and â" especially â" a Negro"
Is 3% too much? Considering what my realtor paid out of her pocket to help me try to sell mine, no, it's not. That out of pocket shit is nice, but it doesn't come out of their commission. they (the ones I've used) want that back at closing, separately.
And 3%? fuck 3%. How about $5,000 to help me sell a house, not $30,000.
In both cases, their expertise can add or subtract thousands from the closing price. My realtor just led me to a fantastic house for which I signed an offer letter just this past weekend. He's going to get $4500 out of the deal, and I consider that a reasonable fee for an expert consultant.
I'm fine with a few K$ for such expert consulting. But 20k$ for largely the same advice for a bigger house is too much.
wow. a 2nd agent jumping on. I guess my point is that the whole 6% commission thing seems artificial. Why not 8%? Why not 4%? Is there really any fluctuation in commissions in the market that you can point to to indicate the 6% number is based on competition? Why don't we see agents advertising that they will list your house for 5% or 4.5% instead of 6?
a) get it on MLS, the defacto system for communicating listings to all local agents without being extorted 15k$ (3% promise to buyer agent) Call around. In my market, you can get a local Realtor to list your property in MLS for ~$200. Are you saying that I can list my house on MLS without having to promise to pay multiple percentage points of the sales amount to the buyer agent? ie, list it for ~$200 without any other obligations?
b) not get blacklisted by every agent in town for offering -only- 3k$ (0.6%) to a buyer agent Realtors are required to show properties that are in their client's best interest. It's hard for me to see how your listing would be in the client's best interest to show. After all, you'd be leaving the client to come with remaining $12k to pay the agent. If I were that client, I'm not sure I'd want to see your property. Are you saying the buyer's agent would first find out the seller will only pay him 3k$ instead of the 15k$ (3%) he'd rather have and then refuse to represent his client in that transaction if his client didn't pay him more? And that's in the best interest of the client?
I own a house and want to do the following when I sell it:
a) list it on MLS for 500k$ b) do it for sale by owner c) only pay 3k$ to a buyer's agent who is doing little more than bringing a buyer to me
How do I:
a) get it on MLS, the defacto system for communicating listings to all local agents without being extorted 15k$ (3% promise to buyer agent) b) not get blacklisted by every agent in town for offering -only- 3k$ (0.6%) to a buyer agent
How do we stop MLS from being a Multiple blackListing Service?
Don't believe a goddamn word anyone in the govt says about security and fighting crime if it involves changing the current status quo. They're full. of. shit.
Slashdot Mirror
yeah. that's the main argument against giving candidates tests... that some people don't do well in a stressed situation like an interview. All I can say to that is you have to -try- to evaluate them.
Remember it's stressful for the interviewer as well as the candidate. The situation is unatural for both parties. In the end, the interviewer is trying to get a read on reality. That read is affected by the skills of both the interviewer and the candidate. It's also affected by whatever handicap each side incurs by virtue of the interview situation itself. So I guess there are 4 factors at play: skill of candidate, skill of interviewer, situational handicap of candidate, situational handicap of interviewer.
A simple programming exercise shouldn't cause someone to crumble. In an interview without a programming test, where you're only conducting probative discussions, a misread of the candidate could result from any of the 4 factors above. In an interview with a programming test, you get a reading where 2 of the four factors are not present. If a candidate can't complete the test (a properly designed/conducted test), then you're faced with 2 conclusions; either this guy can't code his way out of a paper bag or the interview setting itself occasioned a near total collapse of his faculties. In the first instance, the interview has worked as a filter with a bias toward exclusion. In the second, it's very difficult to pursue any further. There may be some way to overlook the result and make a case that he will nevertheless do well in some capacity at the company. Perhaps there's some undeniable track record of technological successes that he can offer. All I know is I have 3 more candidates coming in, and probably 10 more in the hopper for the rest of the week.
yeah that sucks. IF you get someone who solves your problem in a way you weren't expecting, that's -good-. Having a follow on informal discussion about other ways to solve it is even better as you're getting into the candidate's mind, personality etc.
because it's a dirt simple CS 101 exercise. You need a loop, array indexing, swapping values. If a candidate can't bang that out on the whiteboard with his eyes closed, there should be major red flags in hiring him. And trust me, people with nice looking resumes will actually have trouble with it.
That's why as part of the interview team you need to set up some programming tests that constitute basic pass or fail. Like: do basic CRUD in a pseudo language of your choice. Reverse a string of characters in a pseudo code. You'd be surprised at the proportion of "MS" degreed people who can -barely- get through the string reversal. But when you get someone who's a true coder, it's a breeze and a joy watching him do it and talk about it. And he will not suck as a full time coworker.
nuf said
IANAGPS
I am not goth, per se?
i learn karate so i don't have to fight
lawyer-san, you all wet behind ear
right. But how long would it be until the special election, a year? In the meantime, there's a republican incumbent in there, the democrats don't have 60 seats, and by the time the special election happens, the environment may be better for him to keep the seat.
I want to hear a reporter ask him (probably yell to him as he walks past) "senator, are you sorry for your crimes?"
A) bush is going to pardon himself, his whole administration and probably tubes too.
B) Bush is still the prez after the election up until jan 20th. So mr. tubes's hope for a pardon has northing to do with the timing of the election. It may have something to do with the timing of the inauguration if he thought his trial would still be going by then.
C) mr tubes f'd up royally by selfishly pushing to finish the trial before the election. Now that he's convicted, he's going to lose to the democrat. If he had let the trial go past the election he would've won reelection (his number were high especially with palin on the ticket). Then if he had been convicted, palin could have appointed another republican to take his place.
So to wrap up: he didn't need to win the trial to win the election; if he lost the trial before the election, the democrat would win and he'd go to jail; if he lost the trial after the election, there would still be a republican in there and he'd go to jail.
So now he gets to go to jail AND give the senate seat to the opposing party.
FAIL
oh yeah. that's another story. asking a candidate to essentially solve your most pressing problem for you sucks.
When we've hired programmers before, we get candidates with all kinds of degrees and background that can't write psuedo code to reverse a string of characters or sort a linked list. But then we get one who bangs it out. A good resume doesn't look so good anymore after the person can't do something simple on a whiteboard or paper.
Rights of people in US society continually expand and refine over the history of the nation. What no one questioned 20,30,50,100 years ago becomes widely accepted as a befitting and necessary component to a modern society. Black children obtained the right to go to schools with white children. Women have the right to vote which "requires time and resources". Everyone has a right to education which "requires time and resources". The right to be seen in an emergency room. The right to social security. These may not be "inalienable" rights, but by virtue of the fact that we're trying to have a society here, we can decide what everyone members' practical rights are.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people
like the right to marry whoever you want and the right to health care and the right to privacy which is the first line of defense pursuant to "the security of a free state"hey that's what happens when people who fundamentally believe government is bad and doesn't work are put in charge of government.
Wow even a slashdot user 137 can post racist articles.
Quotes from the first article...
"being a Negro in America"
"uppity Negro"
"upstart Negro"
"Magic Negro"
"Negro clown Alan Keyes"
"Negro libido and psyche"
"and â" especially â" a Negro"
And 3%? fuck 3%. How about $5,000 to help me sell a house, not $30,000.
wow. a 2nd agent jumping on. I guess my point is that the whole 6% commission thing seems artificial. Why not 8%? Why not 4%? Is there really any fluctuation in commissions in the market that you can point to to indicate the 6% number is based on competition? Why don't we see agents advertising that they will list your house for 5% or 4.5% instead of 6?
I own a house and want to do the following when I sell it:
a) list it on MLS for 500k$
b) do it for sale by owner
c) only pay 3k$ to a buyer's agent who is doing little more than bringing a buyer to me
How do I:
a) get it on MLS, the defacto system for communicating listings to all local agents without being extorted 15k$ (3% promise to buyer agent)
b) not get blacklisted by every agent in town for offering -only- 3k$ (0.6%) to a buyer agent
How do we stop MLS from being a Multiple blackListing Service?
>>Please don't bring up the Open Source argument. A water purification plant isn't a fun software project...
Huh? The water plant probably uses open source software to run its security system, yet I can't bring up "the open source argument" ?
>>would you really want a law that said nobody could tell them to take down the information?
I'd want the same result that you want (the information comes down), but through a law that said nobody could post that information.
I'd still want a law that said nobody can tell me to take down information... provided the first law wasn't being broken.
Anyone claiming that Ed Felten is unable to responsibly execute such a review should have her head REVIEWED
Don't believe a goddamn word anyone in the govt says about security and fighting crime if it involves changing the current status quo. They're full. of. shit.