Assuming all the "may be cut" features are cut, you're pretty much right. In that case, it's a pure move against piracy and a money-grab. If those features are added in, it may be worth it to some people. Also, it's a way for the single-user to get good support. You're right that that should be available for the current prices, but for most of the world, it's just going to look like a new feature/offering, which of course would come with a price-hike.
*shrug* it basically all depends on the final featureset and the actual level of support you get with Ultimate. Heck, though, I might pick up a copy of Ultimate just to tie up their support lines with questions I already know the answers to:)
Considering it's all opinions anyway, you're apparently pretty stupid to say I'm "in the wrong".
And you've forgotten the point you already conceded. That you use the right tool for the job. One might, in theory, want to promote Windows on the desktop without suggesting or thinking that it's good as a server. They're two completely different uses and require completely different sets of capabilities.
It's also going to be interesting when people "upgrade" from the home edition to say Vista "starter Edition" - Hmm, where did all my functionality go???
Probably won't ever happen. Starter edition shouldn't be offered outside of a few countries where Windows is heavily pirated. In those countries, pirates will use a pirated version of Vista, retaining all capabilities. Those few legitimate users might be affected, but they'll probably understand what "starter" is because it's a bigger deal in their country.
Tech: What edition are you running Caller: Windows
You must not be in tech support. We already have this problem.
Tech: What operating system are you running? Caller: Windows Tech: Which version? Caller: Uh, I dunno, it came on the computer. Tech: How old is the computer Caller: Uh, I really don't know. Tech: *bangs head on desk, then walks user through finding the system properties*
I said: Perhaps the guy doesn't think previous Windows OSs were server class?
You said: Windows Server 2003 exists, and is a very real product used by many hosting firms. They can and should be running their pro-Windows forums on such servers.
I say (using a little logic): Hmm, isn't Windows Server 2003 a "previous" version to Vista?
My statement stands. Your reply does not counter it.
Everyone keeps saying this will confuse the ordinary user--why? They'll just get whatever the OEM slaps on there. The people who actually need to buy an off-the-shelf copy will be people who have the knowledge and ability to actually make an informed decision on what they need.
Yup. Like I said, for support purposes, it's like a completely new Windows OS. Sure, it shares a lot of similarities with pre-SP2, but so did SP share similarities with 2000/Me, and 2000/Me with 98. But there are always enough subtle differences that it extends helpdesk calls.
Have we been complaining about the differences between XP Home and Pro? What are they again? (bonus points if you can do it without referring to any websites or brochures. You're on the honor system here)
I didn't see them touting anything. It's a forum. It's for discussion. The site also has forums for Win98--which no one in their right mind would consider as a server OS. Should they be forced to run on Windows 98?
That really makes another point. The site is primarily about Windows Vista, which isn't even out yet. Are you actually advocating software piracy so they can run the site on the OS they're talking about? Perhaps the guy doesn't think previous Windows OSs were server class?
*shrug* I'm mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but I do think you're being a little overzealous in your suggestions.
You missed the Tablet edition and Media Center edition. And honestly, supporting SP(0|1) and SP2 are two completely different worlds, too. That makes it just as difficult for tech support as the multiple versions.
That's absurd. Should PalmOS be hosted on a PalmOS server?
We use the operating system that is the best for the job. I use Windows at home for some things. My notebook (which goes with me just about everywhere, including work) runs Linux. Maybe this guy just doesn't think that Windows is that hot for servers, but is more than capable as a workstation? Life isn't black and white, you know.
First of all, knock off the "starter edition" altogether in most parts of the world. Even the countries where it exists, it's not used significantly. I'm socked Microsoft is even maintaining that idea at all.
Then, most people will only ever have to worry about the two home versions. The niches they fill are pretty much pre-established: most OEMs will deliver the watered down version, whereas most do-it-yourselfers will probably get the more advanced version. Same as XP Home vs Pro.
The biggest fragmentation seems to be in the business-oriented versions, but even current businesses have some fragmentation (2003 server vs. XP Pro.) Adding one "distro" and separating the "home pros" from the "work pros" isn't all that unreasonable. In fact, companies might welcome the default removal of the media player. Lastly, you get the Windows with Everything, including the kitchen sink--something that's necessary in case you want the business features coupled with multimedia features.
Truth is, 99% of the people will use whatever's handed to them. The only people who will have any sort of decision to make will be the power users and corporations, who can just run down the feature list and choose whatever meets their needs. Assuming the prices scale (and assuming/hoping that they are more-or-less bounded by the current pricing scheme) what this actually does is add more choice for how to spend your money, and add more gradations of money to spend. Really, it's a step towards the right direction in Windows, which would be allowing you to custom build the components you want and getting a price based on what you asked for.
I definitely agree with your comments on ClamAV. I do think it's a useful utility, though. I'd definitely prefer to run native Windows utilties because they'll be better tested and probably updated more frequently.
I'm surprised with your captive-ntfs experiences. I've used it a fair amount and never seen any data or filesystem corruption except once, when the disk itself was going bad.
I think people see a difference because acting out violence in video games might be different than passively watching them. Even then, many stores (around here, at least) restrict the sale of rated R movies. The problem is that it's a voluntary restriction, of course.
RFID implants would solve this. You could program what your child is allowed to do into the chip in his or her hand and then stores could be required to adhere to that. Honestly, that's the only way your solution would work.
The reason? Ok, let's say I don't want my kids playing violent video games, which is probably a fair thing to say of the majority of parents in the US, given who they voted into Office (the "moral" candidate). There are 8 hours a day during which I have absolutely zero control over my kid's life, period. If I'm going to give them any freedom whatsoever, they'll have a little more than that. That's a good chunk of their lives that they could use to acquire these video games without my knowledge.
It'd be nice to think that all our kids could be home-schooled and that we could all be deeply involved in their lives, but that's not the way our culture works. Most parents in the US rely on strangers to raise their kids. They rely on movie theaters enforcing movie ratings, laws restricting the sale of other items to their kids. It's pretty deeply ingrained in our society, given the pressures to reproduce along with the pressure to own many things and have creature-comforts. The combination doesn't allow for most families to have a single income-earner.
Now I think the above is crap. If you can't have time for your kids, you shouldn't have them. But that's not the culture around here.
(For anyone who will claim that you can just raise a child to obey you, I'll call bunk. I've seen kids "raised right" that were right little shits as soon as they were out of their parents' sight. Sometimes it's hard to "raise them right", and it's not like the gov't requires a license to become a parent or anything)
Although you could clean viruses this way (if you have Captive-NTFS, of course) you'll likely have a harder time uninstalling spyware, fixing registry entries, etc. Even cleaning viruses will be faster in PE because of the native drivers, as Captive's emulation is still just that--emulation. It's slow as heck.
It's just a case of "right tool for the job." Linux is great at recovering files, dumping filesystems, etc. when trying to repair Windows. Windows itself is better at most of the rest of the necessary operations.
I dunno. What else can you do in Linux that you can't do in WindowsPE relating to repairing a Windows installation?
You're welcome to think that. As it is, older versions of BarPE/did/ require files from WinPE in order to get some functionality. Furthermore, it would be really, really easy to assume that BartPE is a hacked/modified version of WinPE and would, thus, be unlicensed. Particularly if you didn't read much or any of the site itself and were only shown a demo of the unit ir something. It's reasonable to assume that this guy didn't know what he was talking about. Don't assume he's a liar just because he's connected to Microsoft.
Oh, and violating the terms of your license revokes your license. BartPE itself may not be an "unlicenced" copy of Windows, but if performing the operations on it violates the EULA, then the manager was closer to truth in his statement than you might think.
It's entirely possible, nay likely, that neither he nor anyone in his group checked BartPE for violations. You can be sure that Microsoft's lawyers have done their research into it, but this man himself probably did not. As such, he may assume that it's using components illegally.
It's incredibly irresponsible to go spouting claims when you don't know if they're accurate, but it does not make him a liar--only inaccurate.
Of course, if he/does/ know the truth, and if the truth is that BartPE violates no EULA nor is unlicensed in any way, then yes, he's a liar. Now we have to question whether he's fucking. I don't really want to go there.
I'm not sure a normal notebook is a good idea in the desert, and certainly not one capable of playing anything resembling a modern game.
The main problem will be heat. Ok, you're in a desert. That's one strike. Now you need to keep the thing sealed. That's going to include intake and exhaust. That's a very serious strike. We have to almost completely discount any notebook which is going to require a fan and which doesn't have any measures already in place to seal the inside of the intake/exhaust. That's going to be most of them, because that sort of thing just isn't necessary unless you're looking at ruggedized notebooks. Low power/heat notebooks might be okay with sealing, but it's going to be important to do some serious testing to make sure, and I certainly don't think modern video cards are going to be a possibility.
1. PayPal, or whatever micro-money-management service everyone agrees to use. And I don't think a spammer in Korea would pay them either, but they'd be blacklisted if they didn't.
2. This would almost have to start out on the client with un-paid e-mails being either dumped in the bit-bucket or used as another factor in a Spamassassin-like filter. As more people began using it, it could theorhetically be an authentication on the server so that the bad mail is never delivered to the end user in the first place, which would, of course, cause a problem for mailing lists unless the whitelists were server-side as well.
You're right.. Now if only there was a way to capture pre-generated energy from an already self-sustaining nuclear reaction with a large enough gravity to hold it together... like getting power from the fusion reaction in a star.. perhaps some sort of solar energy, if you will.
Did you intentionally cut out the part of my post that said (unless your plan has "free mobile-to-mobile" minutes) so that you could sound informative?
Also, mobile to mobile only counts if you're calling someone in the same company, so in a town like mine (which is serviced by all three major networks) you only get about 1/3 of your calls "free".
Anyway, I don't know about it being the default "for years". I just switched plans 1 year ago this month, and the base plan did not have mobile-to-mobile by default. Since we decided to use our cells almost exclusively, we decided to get the next plan up to get m2m. I see now on Cingular's website that m2m is on all listed plans, but exactly one year ago, it was not.
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Assuming all the "may be cut" features are cut, you're pretty much right. In that case, it's a pure move against piracy and a money-grab. If those features are added in, it may be worth it to some people. Also, it's a way for the single-user to get good support. You're right that that should be available for the current prices, but for most of the world, it's just going to look like a new feature/offering, which of course would come with a price-hike.
:)
*shrug* it basically all depends on the final featureset and the actual level of support you get with Ultimate. Heck, though, I might pick up a copy of Ultimate just to tie up their support lines with questions I already know the answers to
Considering it's all opinions anyway, you're apparently pretty stupid to say I'm "in the wrong".
And you've forgotten the point you already conceded. That you use the right tool for the job. One might, in theory, want to promote Windows on the desktop without suggesting or thinking that it's good as a server. They're two completely different uses and require completely different sets of capabilities.
It's also going to be interesting when people "upgrade" from the home edition to say Vista "starter Edition" - Hmm, where did all my functionality go???
Probably won't ever happen. Starter edition shouldn't be offered outside of a few countries where Windows is heavily pirated. In those countries, pirates will use a pirated version of Vista, retaining all capabilities. Those few legitimate users might be affected, but they'll probably understand what "starter" is because it's a bigger deal in their country.
Tech: What edition are you running
Caller: Windows
You must not be in tech support. We already have this problem.
Tech: What operating system are you running?
Caller: Windows
Tech: Which version?
Caller: Uh, I dunno, it came on the computer.
Tech: How old is the computer
Caller: Uh, I really don't know.
Tech: *bangs head on desk, then walks user through finding the system properties*
I said: Perhaps the guy doesn't think previous Windows OSs were server class?
You said: Windows Server 2003 exists, and is a very real product used by many hosting firms. They can and should be running their pro-Windows forums on such servers.
I say (using a little logic): Hmm, isn't Windows Server 2003 a "previous" version to Vista?
My statement stands. Your reply does not counter it.
Everyone keeps saying this will confuse the ordinary user--why? They'll just get whatever the OEM slaps on there. The people who actually need to buy an off-the-shelf copy will be people who have the knowledge and ability to actually make an informed decision on what they need.
Yup. Like I said, for support purposes, it's like a completely new Windows OS. Sure, it shares a lot of similarities with pre-SP2, but so did SP share similarities with 2000/Me, and 2000/Me with 98. But there are always enough subtle differences that it extends helpdesk calls.
Have we been complaining about the differences between XP Home and Pro? What are they again? (bonus points if you can do it without referring to any websites or brochures. You're on the honor system here)
I didn't see them touting anything. It's a forum. It's for discussion. The site also has forums for Win98--which no one in their right mind would consider as a server OS. Should they be forced to run on Windows 98?
That really makes another point. The site is primarily about Windows Vista, which isn't even out yet. Are you actually advocating software piracy so they can run the site on the OS they're talking about? Perhaps the guy doesn't think previous Windows OSs were server class?
*shrug* I'm mostly playing the devil's advocate here, but I do think you're being a little overzealous in your suggestions.
You missed the Tablet edition and Media Center edition. And honestly, supporting SP(0|1) and SP2 are two completely different worlds, too. That makes it just as difficult for tech support as the multiple versions.
That's absurd. Should PalmOS be hosted on a PalmOS server?
We use the operating system that is the best for the job. I use Windows at home for some things. My notebook (which goes with me just about everywhere, including work) runs Linux. Maybe this guy just doesn't think that Windows is that hot for servers, but is more than capable as a workstation? Life isn't black and white, you know.
I don't think this is that far out of line.
First of all, knock off the "starter edition" altogether in most parts of the world. Even the countries where it exists, it's not used significantly. I'm socked Microsoft is even maintaining that idea at all.
Then, most people will only ever have to worry about the two home versions. The niches they fill are pretty much pre-established: most OEMs will deliver the watered down version, whereas most do-it-yourselfers will probably get the more advanced version. Same as XP Home vs Pro.
The biggest fragmentation seems to be in the business-oriented versions, but even current businesses have some fragmentation (2003 server vs. XP Pro.) Adding one "distro" and separating the "home pros" from the "work pros" isn't all that unreasonable. In fact, companies might welcome the default removal of the media player. Lastly, you get the Windows with Everything, including the kitchen sink--something that's necessary in case you want the business features coupled with multimedia features.
Truth is, 99% of the people will use whatever's handed to them. The only people who will have any sort of decision to make will be the power users and corporations, who can just run down the feature list and choose whatever meets their needs. Assuming the prices scale (and assuming/hoping that they are more-or-less bounded by the current pricing scheme) what this actually does is add more choice for how to spend your money, and add more gradations of money to spend. Really, it's a step towards the right direction in Windows, which would be allowing you to custom build the components you want and getting a price based on what you asked for.
I definitely agree with your comments on ClamAV. I do think it's a useful utility, though. I'd definitely prefer to run native Windows utilties because they'll be better tested and probably updated more frequently.
I'm surprised with your captive-ntfs experiences. I've used it a fair amount and never seen any data or filesystem corruption except once, when the disk itself was going bad.
I think people see a difference because acting out violence in video games might be different than passively watching them. Even then, many stores (around here, at least) restrict the sale of rated R movies. The problem is that it's a voluntary restriction, of course.
RFID implants would solve this. You could program what your child is allowed to do into the chip in his or her hand and then stores could be required to adhere to that. Honestly, that's the only way your solution would work.
The reason? Ok, let's say I don't want my kids playing violent video games, which is probably a fair thing to say of the majority of parents in the US, given who they voted into Office (the "moral" candidate). There are 8 hours a day during which I have absolutely zero control over my kid's life, period. If I'm going to give them any freedom whatsoever, they'll have a little more than that. That's a good chunk of their lives that they could use to acquire these video games without my knowledge.
It'd be nice to think that all our kids could be home-schooled and that we could all be deeply involved in their lives, but that's not the way our culture works. Most parents in the US rely on strangers to raise their kids. They rely on movie theaters enforcing movie ratings, laws restricting the sale of other items to their kids. It's pretty deeply ingrained in our society, given the pressures to reproduce along with the pressure to own many things and have creature-comforts. The combination doesn't allow for most families to have a single income-earner.
Now I think the above is crap. If you can't have time for your kids, you shouldn't have them. But that's not the culture around here.
(For anyone who will claim that you can just raise a child to obey you, I'll call bunk. I've seen kids "raised right" that were right little shits as soon as they were out of their parents' sight. Sometimes it's hard to "raise them right", and it's not like the gov't requires a license to become a parent or anything)
Although you could clean viruses this way (if you have Captive-NTFS, of course) you'll likely have a harder time uninstalling spyware, fixing registry entries, etc. Even cleaning viruses will be faster in PE because of the native drivers, as Captive's emulation is still just that--emulation. It's slow as heck.
It's just a case of "right tool for the job." Linux is great at recovering files, dumping filesystems, etc. when trying to repair Windows. Windows itself is better at most of the rest of the necessary operations.
I dunno. What else can you do in Linux that you can't do in WindowsPE relating to repairing a Windows installation?
You're welcome to think that. As it is, older versions of BarPE /did/ require files from WinPE in order to get some functionality. Furthermore, it would be really, really easy to assume that BartPE is a hacked/modified version of WinPE and would, thus, be unlicensed. Particularly if you didn't read much or any of the site itself and were only shown a demo of the unit ir something. It's reasonable to assume that this guy didn't know what he was talking about. Don't assume he's a liar just because he's connected to Microsoft.
Oh, and violating the terms of your license revokes your license. BartPE itself may not be an "unlicenced" copy of Windows, but if performing the operations on it violates the EULA, then the manager was closer to truth in his statement than you might think.
You must be Catholic.
Seems like with ClamAV and Captive-NTFS, you could do the same thing.
Actually, he might just be mistaken.
/does/ know the truth, and if the truth is that BartPE violates no EULA nor is unlicensed in any way, then yes, he's a liar. Now we have to question whether he's fucking. I don't really want to go there.
It's entirely possible, nay likely, that neither he nor anyone in his group checked BartPE for violations. You can be sure that Microsoft's lawyers have done their research into it, but this man himself probably did not. As such, he may assume that it's using components illegally.
It's incredibly irresponsible to go spouting claims when you don't know if they're accurate, but it does not make him a liar--only inaccurate.
Of course, if he
I'm not sure a normal notebook is a good idea in the desert, and certainly not one capable of playing anything resembling a modern game.
The main problem will be heat. Ok, you're in a desert. That's one strike. Now you need to keep the thing sealed. That's going to include intake and exhaust. That's a very serious strike. We have to almost completely discount any notebook which is going to require a fan and which doesn't have any measures already in place to seal the inside of the intake/exhaust. That's going to be most of them, because that sort of thing just isn't necessary unless you're looking at ruggedized notebooks. Low power/heat notebooks might be okay with sealing, but it's going to be important to do some serious testing to make sure, and I certainly don't think modern video cards are going to be a possibility.
I think it's less likely that they'll upgrade and more likely that they'll stop visiting your site, thinking it broken.
Remember, most IE users don't realize that there are other options and probably don't care.
The best use of micropayments would be to make people pay an actual 2 cents whenever they use that phrase.
1. PayPal, or whatever micro-money-management service everyone agrees to use. And I don't think a spammer in Korea would pay them either, but they'd be blacklisted if they didn't.
2. This would almost have to start out on the client with un-paid e-mails being either dumped in the bit-bucket or used as another factor in a Spamassassin-like filter. As more people began using it, it could theorhetically be an authentication on the server so that the bad mail is never delivered to the end user in the first place, which would, of course, cause a problem for mailing lists unless the whitelists were server-side as well.
You're right.. Now if only there was a way to capture pre-generated energy from an already self-sustaining nuclear reaction with a large enough gravity to hold it together... like getting power from the fusion reaction in a star.. perhaps some sort of solar energy, if you will.
Did you intentionally cut out the part of my post that said (unless your plan has "free mobile-to-mobile" minutes) so that you could sound informative?
Also, mobile to mobile only counts if you're calling someone in the same company, so in a town like mine (which is serviced by all three major networks) you only get about 1/3 of your calls "free".
Anyway, I don't know about it being the default "for years". I just switched plans 1 year ago this month, and the base plan did not have mobile-to-mobile by default. Since we decided to use our cells almost exclusively, we decided to get the next plan up to get m2m. I see now on Cingular's website that m2m is on all listed plans, but exactly one year ago, it was not.