(insert huge frelling disclaimer here. - i did this all on my desktop NT 4 workstation at work...)
i tried both cocoon 1.8 and cocoon2 out on my tomcat 3.2.1 at work (java jdk1.3.1) and i got REALLY horrid performance from cocoon2. it sucked what life was left in my NT box. what kicked ass were the chock full o samples that cocoon2 has, and also the ease with which it installed. MUCH easier to install than cocoon1. cocoon1 has you converting your whole tomcat over to a cocoon enabled server, while cocoon2 is a simple drop in.war file which is just for that context.
anyone else have the same issues with performance on cocoon2 ? or was it just some funky situation i ran into on my box?
i think you will be hard pressed to find a trade show that is meaningful for developers. MOST trade shows are meant to push product, not technology per se.
the best bet is to go to those trade shows for ideas and attend the seminars trying to see a) how the technology could be helpful to your work b) how you could leverage it at your environment.
especially in the java world, you can mostly use the same techniques across differing Java Application Servers (aka Tomcat, Resin) the only time it gets harder is on the differing EJB servers. and even then you can still leverage the similar technologies, the deployment bits are the things that change, not the code.
another HUGE place to get java ideas is online. i use ibm's Developerworks and that has different sections on xml, java, web services. (as well as linux and open source) other good java sites include ONJava and the java publications like Javaworld or the java portal Javaskyline
CLR - whats the advantage?
on
J#
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
i find it strange that microsoft would choose to try and 'leverage' the bytecode concept that java has. i keep hearing from developers that CLR is cool, etc where i just keep thinking its the same concept as the java bytecode.
People already have written cross compilers to compile C/C++ into java bytecode. BUT, AFAIK, not that many people actually use it. most people just go ahead and make the jump to using java as their programming language, instead of trying to remain on their old language.
by the same token, if you're going to use.NET, then i would think you would want to learn C#. but if you are going to do that, why not learn java and then be platform independant? its not like learning java is that difficult for a proficient vb/c/c++ developer. C# keeps more of the c++ eccentricities. or as its been said "C# - it keeps all the worst bits of java AND c++"
and one that you call can go buy today at your local beast buy...
the Iomega HipZip MP3 player. - its a USB connectable mp3 player that uses the Iomega PocketZip (formerly known as the Clik!) disks which are 40 MB removable media (averaging about $10 for each disk)
it runs lineo and is pretty neat as removable media MP3 players go. rechargable battery which is nice (unless you're going on a 10+ hour flight)
the other really nice thing about this player is that if you are using pocketzips, the player plugs in and just becomes an external drive. so you can just copy the files onto the disk. no special programs needed!
just a thought... why not use a closed network in the classroom that has no access outside, and then use either restricted VPN to tunnel only specific things outside, (which i guess would still allow a port 80 proxy... oops)
or a closed network and then have the students only have access to a VNC session which the profs could then session view, and display on the big screen to show what that student is doing. in addition to the "oh look, josh is net-sexing beth" types of demonstrations, the prof could also let a student run the demo showing how they did something.
sort of a new way of "brad, why dont you stand up and read that section?"
the simple answer: Sort of.
the real answer: it all depends...
the explanation: if you can compile it, you can run it. if its a command line program, you're porting compile is considerably easier. if its Graphical, you've got a bit harder approach since OSX uses Aqua - a graphical display system which has bases in display PDF (some *nixes GUI systems used to be based on Display Postscript - see Solaris' OpenWindows v1.x)
however, since i've yet to see a linux/bsd / solaris / aix application that uses aqua, if its a gui program its probably doing Xwindows. to run X on X, you gotta do some tricks, theres a few methods, but Darwin has ported XFree86 to X. it runs pretty well too.
what i've found is that the quickest way to get an aqua app running is to find a java version of the application if possible since the awt/swing -> aqua stuff is abstracted by the osx implementation of java. but this doesnt solve all your woes.
from my testing, java on the mac under os X since 10.0.1 has been just as good as running java on a winnt 4 w/ hotspot.
it seems to run faster than some other things, but thats probably my perception.
also, java gave me immediate access to programs that i "lost" moving to 10.x from 9.x - things that i didnt want to run the whole classic environement for. for example, before the xfree86 port was available, i was running the java version of X windows... heres the java version of xwindows
why would i want to limit myself to hardware thats still kneecapped by the 8088 instruction set? RISC processing is where its at baybeee!
i just love hearing people who hate java go on and on about why CLR is the right way to go, when its all the same reasons that java was the right way to go 5 years ago, but without the ability to run cross platform.
i had heard that the java plug-in didnt work on ie6, that when microsoft removed the netscape plug-ins it also disabled sun's java plug-in. but looking at various pages on the plug-in, it appears that under IE, you actually load the plugin as a COM object. with the tag.
anyone try this yet? i suppose i can nuke a machine with ie6 and try it myself sometime... but i figure theres gotta be a few out there whove done this already.
theoretically, you could get a c/c++ compiler which compiles to java bytecode...
and as long as the same interfaces were exposed, aka the applet's run,init,start, etc; you could write an applet that would run in existing jvm applet space in c/c++.
of course right now i cant remember any of the bytecode c/c++ compilers.
i am really surprised that these graphics werent available earlier.
in this age of instant this and instant that, i had sorta expected to see this all tuesday night. not that i really wanted to.
i dont know about you, but my friends and i keep trying to use local buildings to imagine the enormity of what happened. aka, we have this 50 odd floor tower here in minneapolis, and it amazes us constantly that it would take about 10 of those to fit into the 3 major WTC buildings that fell. freaky stuff.
I think you can infer that Microsoft is really acknowledging that they have big ole security holes in their products. When they say they will open up the Hailstorm services (oops, i mean what Microsoft "meant to do all along") it really means, "well we know some hacker is going to break in and publish all the information anyways, so its not really a 'secure' means of keeping this information. oh and, can you find some other people to run it for us so we arent liable?"
Java Server Pages are the java version of the Microsoft ASP pages. (yes i know that P is redundant, but isnt Microsoft?)
in other words, you can write "code" in your HTML page, and then Tomcat will compile it on the fly into a servlet, which then runs nice and fast. (aka it wont try recompiling it each time) theres a LOT of similarities to ASP, but a lot of things fixed.
theres a bunch of zealots, i mean, bright people who arggue that JSP (and ASP) allow you to needlessly mix Presentation and Code Logic, which is true. the Jakarta Cocoon project might be a better fit in those scenarios - Cocoon uses all XML instead of HTML, and you dont use code snippets in the pages, but references via taglibs or objects.
because these types of applications are usually designed and planned over lots of meetings, and user requirements. and until the OS community gets some of those types of business people involved as participants, it wont happen.
also, these types of applications usually need some company specific requirements on the implementation. even if you go with a commercial product, the time spent customizing is immense.
The Apache group releases yet another world class product...
i'm glad to see that the Jakarta Project's latest release of Tomcat comes with more documentation and administrative tools than the earlier 3.x releases. Not that those were hard to install and configure, but when you're trying to get Management to let you use a product, it helps to have more warm fuzzy ways of doing things, than the old "well i can edit that config file and we'll be ready to go"
of course there are still some documentation pieces lacking, (like whats the WARP protocol?!?) but overall it seems a really good, well rounded release of the Tomcat product.
of course, i still havent found how i integrate tomcat into an existing web server other than Apache...
my question is now without a EJB J2EE server, what does enhydra bring to the table?
if i wanted to use a system that separated church (presentation) and state (coding) i'd go with Apache Jakarta's Cocoon XML based server. It's basically takes the concept of JSP, uses XML instead of HTML, and does not allow you to put code into the page.
from what i could tell from a curory reading, this is similar to the Enhydra XMLC component does - reads in your HTML, finds tags and creates stub java code for it. sorta the reverse of JSP - creating code from HTML, instead of inserting or calling code from your.JSP...
which is better? i would imagine it depends on your shop's bent - if you're more a bunch of Web Monkeys er... HTML coders, then you could just code up the page, and give it over to your java monkeys who could then use Enhydra to XMLC the html to get stubs of code to fill in.
on the other hand, you could have your two monkeys actually work together and plan and design out the system, and then use standard JSP or even Cocoon to work together to create JSP or XSP (cocoon) files which have all the pretty graphix and onMouseover javascripted stuff you want.
i dunno, i suppose enhydra is now yet another way of doing the job.
but on the other hand, it has nice pretty screens to manage the server... maybe someone on the Jakarta project teams can steal er... use that concept in their open stuff. cuz we all know that Apache needs a bit more GUI management for us to really sell its use in the Enterprise.
seriously, at $2649 this is way overpriced. i thought the idea behind linux was to reduce costs...
for the cost i would seriously look at an Apple iBook for $1299 and throw in the Airport card and Airport Base station. and with those added in, we're still only at $1600... and i'm running OSX which is pretty decent. or i could run linuxppc. and i'll still have $1000 to use to buy drinks for all those who say my new iBook looks gay.
an article pulled from the Phillipines Inquirer quotes a Microsoft rep (granted, hes just the phillipines head) as saying that "it is wrong to say that Microsoft software is inherently vulnerable to security threats"
Slashdot Mirror
nytimes killed that access. those bastards!
(insert huge frelling disclaimer here. - i did this all on my desktop NT 4 workstation at work...)
.war file which is just for that context.
i tried both cocoon 1.8 and cocoon2 out on my tomcat 3.2.1 at work (java jdk1.3.1) and i got REALLY horrid performance from cocoon2. it sucked what life was left in my NT box. what kicked ass were the chock full o samples that cocoon2 has, and also the ease with which it installed. MUCH easier to install than cocoon1. cocoon1 has you converting your whole tomcat over to a cocoon enabled server, while cocoon2 is a simple drop in
anyone else have the same issues with performance on cocoon2 ? or was it just some funky situation i ran into on my box?
i think you will be hard pressed to find a trade show that is meaningful for developers. MOST trade shows are meant to push product, not technology per se.
the best bet is to go to those trade shows for ideas and attend the seminars trying to see a) how the technology could be helpful to your work b) how you could leverage it at your environment.
especially in the java world, you can mostly use the same techniques across differing Java Application Servers (aka Tomcat, Resin) the only time it gets harder is on the differing EJB servers. and even then you can still leverage the similar technologies, the deployment bits are the things that change, not the code.
another HUGE place to get java ideas is online. i use ibm's Developerworks and that has different sections on xml, java, web services. (as well as linux and open source) other good java sites include ONJava and the java publications like Javaworld or the java portal Javaskyline
i find it strange that microsoft would choose to try and 'leverage' the bytecode concept that java has. i keep hearing from developers that CLR is cool, etc where i just keep thinking its the same concept as the java bytecode. .NET, then i would think you would want to learn C#. but if you are going to do that, why not learn java and then be platform independant? its not like learning java is that difficult for a proficient vb/c/c++ developer. C# keeps more of the c++ eccentricities. or as its been said "C# - it keeps all the worst bits of java AND c++"
People already have written cross compilers to compile C/C++ into java bytecode. BUT, AFAIK, not that many people actually use it. most people just go ahead and make the jump to using java as their programming language, instead of trying to remain on their old language.
by the same token, if you're going to use
and one that you call can go buy today at your local beast buy...
the Iomega HipZip MP3 player. - its a USB connectable mp3 player that uses the Iomega PocketZip (formerly known as the Clik!) disks which are 40 MB removable media (averaging about $10 for each disk)
it runs lineo and is pretty neat as removable media MP3 players go. rechargable battery which is nice (unless you're going on a 10+ hour flight)
the other really nice thing about this player is that if you are using pocketzips, the player plugs in and just becomes an external drive. so you can just copy the files onto the disk. no special programs needed!
thats not a PDA!
thats just someone's car rear view mirror !
its cuz they tend to commit suicide due to the extreme stress of running windows.
but with this new psion vaporware, it'll be able to withstand an attempt at drowning, or a ledge jump.
just a thought... why not use a closed network in the classroom that has no access outside, and then use either restricted VPN to tunnel only specific things outside, (which i guess would still allow a port 80 proxy... oops)
or a closed network and then have the students only have access to a VNC session which the profs could then session view, and display on the big screen to show what that student is doing. in addition to the "oh look, josh is net-sexing beth" types of demonstrations, the prof could also let a student run the demo showing how they did something.
sort of a new way of "brad, why dont you stand up and read that section?"
the simple answer: Sort of.
the real answer: it all depends...
the explanation: if you can compile it, you can run it. if its a command line program, you're porting compile is considerably easier. if its Graphical, you've got a bit harder approach since OSX uses Aqua - a graphical display system which has bases in display PDF (some *nixes GUI systems used to be based on Display Postscript - see Solaris' OpenWindows v1.x)
however, since i've yet to see a linux/bsd / solaris / aix application that uses aqua, if its a gui program its probably doing Xwindows. to run X on X, you gotta do some tricks, theres a few methods, but Darwin has ported XFree86 to X. it runs pretty well too.
what i've found is that the quickest way to get an aqua app running is to find a java version of the application if possible since the awt/swing -> aqua stuff is abstracted by the osx implementation of java. but this doesnt solve all your woes.
OSX has always had hotspot.
from my testing, java on the mac under os X since 10.0.1 has been just as good as running java on a winnt 4 w/ hotspot.
it seems to run faster than some other things, but thats probably my perception.
also, java gave me immediate access to programs that i "lost" moving to 10.x from 9.x - things that i didnt want to run the whole classic environement for. for example, before the xfree86 port was available, i was running the java version of X windows... heres the java version of xwindows
... Wanna Herman Miller Aeron Chair?
Cheap! only $400 and barely used... only the sweat of 3 dot com geeks on it...
because CLR only runs on WINTEL.
why would i want to limit myself to hardware thats still kneecapped by the 8088 instruction set? RISC processing is where its at baybeee!
i just love hearing people who hate java go on and on about why CLR is the right way to go, when its all the same reasons that java was the right way to go 5 years ago, but without the ability to run cross platform.
ahh yes. i wasnt sure about the client stuff.
.NET stuf which is the web services stuff... forgetting that you coudl still run the bytecode like java as an application
i was thinking the primary
this might be way off topic, but why isnt windows IE like mac IE?
on the mac, the jvm that executes is whatever jvm you have installed on the system. so if you had installed jvm1.3 you'd run that one.
i had heard that the java plug-in didnt work on ie6, that when microsoft removed the netscape plug-ins it also disabled sun's java plug-in. but looking at various pages on the plug-in, it appears that under IE, you actually load the plugin as a COM object. with the tag.
anyone try this yet? i suppose i can nuke a machine with ie6 and try it myself sometime... but i figure theres gotta be a few out there whove done this already.
wait a second... .NET is not a browser component. its a server component.
/activex virii
.NET on the client side. although it wouldnt surprise me to find it coming.
.NET ~ java servlets
.NET !~ java applets / plugins
(well its a virus for sure)
but i dont think theres much in the way of
theoretically, you could get a c/c++ compiler which compiles to java bytecode...
and as long as the same interfaces were exposed, aka the applet's run,init,start, etc; you could write an applet that would run in existing jvm applet space in c/c++.
of course right now i cant remember any of the bytecode c/c++ compilers.
i am really surprised that these graphics werent available earlier.
in this age of instant this and instant that, i had sorta expected to see this all tuesday night. not that i really wanted to.
i dont know about you, but my friends and i keep trying to use local buildings to imagine the enormity of what happened. aka, we have this 50 odd floor tower here in minneapolis, and it amazes us constantly that it would take about 10 of those to fit into the 3 major WTC buildings that fell. freaky stuff.
I think you can infer that Microsoft is really acknowledging that they have big ole security holes in their products. When they say they will open up the Hailstorm services (oops, i mean what Microsoft "meant to do all along") it really means, "well we know some hacker is going to break in and publish all the information anyways, so its not really a 'secure' means of keeping this information. oh and, can you find some other people to run it for us so we arent liable?"
.Net!"
spike
"help help! i'm all tangled up in the
Java Server Pages are the java version of the Microsoft ASP pages. (yes i know that P is redundant, but isnt Microsoft?)
in other words, you can write "code" in your HTML page, and then Tomcat will compile it on the fly into a servlet, which then runs nice and fast. (aka it wont try recompiling it each time) theres a LOT of similarities to ASP, but a lot of things fixed.
theres a bunch of zealots, i mean, bright people who arggue that JSP (and ASP) allow you to needlessly mix Presentation and Code Logic, which is true. the Jakarta Cocoon project might be a better fit in those scenarios - Cocoon uses all XML instead of HTML, and you dont use code snippets in the pages, but references via taglibs or objects.
because these types of applications are usually designed and planned over lots of meetings, and user requirements. and until the OS community gets some of those types of business people involved as participants, it wont happen.
also, these types of applications usually need some company specific requirements on the implementation. even if you go with a commercial product, the time spent customizing is immense.
The Apache group releases yet another world class product...
i'm glad to see that the Jakarta Project's latest release of Tomcat comes with more documentation and administrative tools than the earlier 3.x releases. Not that those were hard to install and configure, but when you're trying to get Management to let you use a product, it helps to have more warm fuzzy ways of doing things, than the old "well i can edit that config file and we'll be ready to go"
of course there are still some documentation pieces lacking, (like whats the WARP protocol?!?) but overall it seems a really good, well rounded release of the Tomcat product.
of course, i still havent found how i integrate tomcat into an existing web server other than Apache...
if i wanted to use a system that separated church (presentation) and state (coding) i'd go with Apache Jakarta's Cocoon XML based server. It's basically takes the concept of JSP, uses XML instead of HTML, and does not allow you to put code into the page. .JSP ...
from what i could tell from a curory reading, this is similar to the Enhydra XMLC component does - reads in your HTML, finds tags and creates stub java code for it. sorta the reverse of JSP - creating code from HTML, instead of inserting or calling code from your
which is better? i would imagine it depends on your shop's bent - if you're more a bunch of Web Monkeys er... HTML coders, then you could just code up the page, and give it over to your java monkeys who could then use Enhydra to XMLC the html to get stubs of code to fill in.
on the other hand, you could have your two monkeys actually work together and plan and design out the system, and then use standard JSP or even Cocoon to work together to create JSP or XSP (cocoon) files which have all the pretty graphix and onMouseover javascripted stuff you want.
i dunno, i suppose enhydra is now yet another way of doing the job.
but on the other hand, it has nice pretty screens to manage the server... maybe someone on the Jakarta project teams can steal er... use that concept in their open stuff. cuz we all know that Apache needs a bit more GUI management for us to really sell its use in the Enterprise.
spike
for the cost i would seriously look at an Apple iBook for $1299 and throw in the Airport card and Airport Base station. and with those added in, we're still only at $1600... and i'm running OSX which is pretty decent. or i could run linuxppc. and i'll still have $1000 to use to buy drinks for all those who say my new iBook looks gay.
the article is available on the Hoovernews website