Slashdot Mirror
OS X 10.1 Coming Today (Sorta)
usa35.com writes "News.com has a story detailing the release of Apple's 10.1 update. They say "unveiled" today, probably meaning actually disseminated to us general public folks sometime in the coming days." This is of course the release that regular users can actually use. Supposedly this is a free upgrade. Speed improvements, UI fixes, DVD stuffs. I can't wait to test it out a little. And those new iBooks are pretty reasonably priced (I figure that they can sell them cheap by cutting corners like most of the mouse buttons ;)
You're going to try it out a little? Better not say "a lot" or "I might even use it full time," or Linus will revoke your charter.
It will be fun hear about the much talked about interface speed-ups. Someone who has seen it in action and can confirm?
When I tried it, it was slower that X & Gnome...
:wq!
Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted
shut up about the mouse buttons already.
~jeff
The new version will be available from Mac dealers and Apple's own retail stores at no cost for existing OS X owners. Everyone else will pay $129 .
M$ could take a lesson from Apple. "Second edition" bug fix releases sure aren't free, and full versions aren't $129.00.
Oh yeah, Apple doesn't have a Monopoly to screw us with.
The Gardener
--
I'm sorry, but 10.0 was a very... incomplete release. It was sluggish, didn't have important things like DVD or CD-RW capabilities, plus it didn't always work correctly. 10.1, on the other hand, is just incredible. The speed increases are phenomenal (from 50-400%, depending on your CPU) and the added functionality and general GUI cleanup are much welcomed. 10.0 always had sort of a beta feel to it, but 10.1 feels like a sleek, finished OS. Kudos to Apple for the great job.
is there anyway to run this on intel x86 machine ?
that controlls the remote cameras that X10.com sells, right?
There is also talk of it finally fixing legacy appletalk support (not TCP/IP based). Yeah I know, move to NFS, be a real man, etc... But a lot of my co-workers are stuck in a MacOS less than 10. Makes it difficult. Not to mention that you can't communicate properly with a Linux server running netatalk. I can't wait!
Check out Althea for a stable IMAP email client for X. Now with SSL!
I've been using 5G64 since it was released to us ADC members, supposedly it's the GM. It's everything that Steve claims it to be,
'cause that's when Steve said we'd get DVD playback. :)
Paul
Sounds crazy, but it's Apple so nothing is ever out of the question.
Free as in "speech," free as in "beer," and now free as in "$20."
Yet another innovation from Apple.
have you used it?
have you used it on an officially supported machine?
have you used it on said machine with a reasonable (256 megs or more) amount of ram?
ibooks don't come with mice, so they've actually cut more corners than that when it comes to ibooks, eh?
Macslash has a thread going about the release and a lot of developers with Betas are reporting some significant improvements in speed - most notibly the time to load apps in native and classic modes.
Sound waves should be free!
I've been using OSX for a while, and it is a real dog on any chip other than a G4. It's always been usable, but the windows don't have the snap-into-action feel that they need to satisfy an old Win2k afficianado such as myself. Furthermore, the OS was missing a lot of essential features, DVD being the most prominent, that are coming in full effect. Also exciting is the movement of a couple of important indicators to the empty space on the apple bar...my dock quickly fills up and I can't wait to lose things like the battery indicator that don't really need to be so big. Here's hoping the developers of such great dock apps as LoadInDock, Memory Manager, TempInDock (immeasurably useful, so you don't put a 140 degree lappy onto your legs while wearing shorts) and so on. It seems most of the visibility "enhancements" are just the hidden options in OS 10.4, unlockable via tweak panels...but it'll be nice to have more efficient effects like the scale available from a System Preference.
Ahhh, 10.1...OSX is finally a real operating system. Thank you, blue fairy!
Hey freaks: now you're ju
Huh, I can upgrade a crappy old Win95 install to the equivelant of WinME by downloading only 500+Mb of files straight from Microsoft, assuming that their site hasn't been virused or DOS'd or DNS hacked or just switched off by mistake. That gives me an OS that's far more stable... not, wait... that looks totally different... no, hang on, that's not it. Something is different though... Ah! It needs twice the memory and runs half as fast. So it must be better, and it didn't cost me a penny to get there, other than the three days out of my life to download each patch one at a time then reboot.
Apple could learn a lesson from this.
Or maybe they already did. ;)
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Specifically, is it bearable on a new iBook? When I tried 10.04 on a new iBook it was like running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 133 (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!) If they have the windowing optimized enough to run on an iBook I may just part with $1500 this week!
Slashdot has gotten into the Apple rumor mongering! I'll start us off down the necessary path:
What else could Steve J be revealing today? I think that aren't quite right for the but I think that we're long over do for . I can't wait!
I can't spell or type, but that doesn't mean I'm unusually stupid.
Bite us, you coward.
Try making that Gateway POS handle professional quality digital video and playback in your lifetime.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
I see a pleonasm there. Shouldn't it be OS X.1?
I used to work for a company that had a mixed environment of Macs and PCs. The one thing we discovered was that some applications (notably Foxpro, etc.) worked far slower on the Macs. I'm not sure but I was guessing that this was an optimization issue... So is there a noticeable speed difference still between apps optimized on the PC and not for the Mac, and vice versa? In our office right now we mostly use PCs but have a couple of Macs for graphic design and audio work.
Nope. It's pretty damn speedy on my 400 MHz G3 and my iBook 2001. True, these machines have 512 MB and 256 MB of RAM, respectively, but RAM is so cheap these days....
This space unintentionally left unblank.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/
Tom.
Oh arse
However, one thing that worries me is whether or not they will include Dev Tools. I bought OSX 10.0 when if first came out, and it came with the disc. The Dev Tools include important things like a compiler for making other programs from the Terminal, and fun things like a Java browser, OpenGL stuff, etc. However, they were not included with my new computer. While I already owned them, so I just loaded them myself, I hope that people won't have to pay $129 just to get some tools that should come with new machines. Thanks Apple, you based the system on BSD, but don't forget the tools we need to really write with it!
Shouldn't it be OS X.1???
:^)
"Specifically, is it bearable on a new iBook? When I tried 10.04 on a new iBook it was like running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 133 (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS!) If they have the windowing optimized enough to run on an iBook I may just part with $1500 this week!"
Or you can get a decent PC for the exact same price and run something that dosn't match your sofa.
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic --Joseph Stalin
Darnit Taco, please join the present. I'm currently using an Intellimouse Explorer on my Mac, and I've got five mouse buttons plus a scroll wheel. They all work quite well, thank you. If you really want a multi-button mouse for your iBook, just plug one into the USB port. You don't even have to reboot.
I know you meant it as a joke, but statements like that smell a lot like a troll. Please try not to taunt your audience.
This
Ok the 10.0.4 boxes I ran at work and home were slow in the aqua gui, truely, but as far as I/O,
/. most here would be pleased to know that it is not BSD/Darwin that is slow, but the Aqua gui that ppl are bitching and moaning about (with good reason, IMO).
processing, task switching, serving web/ftp...they all kicked ass to say the least.
For all the unix'ey love fests that take place on
Lack of features, nope, not for what I used it for: Surfing, SETI, FTP, pr0n watching, vcd (mpg1, naturally), ssh, classic apps...it did it all with nary a hitch (just don't leave a DVD in the drive...kernel panic w/o fail on my box).
So, yeah 10.1 is a drool inducer ooo-ooo, shiney *blue* objects!!! (kiki the ferret voice) and dvd, speed tweaks and some needed + native cocoa apps are well and good, but I hope the OS's speed does not suffer, gui be damned.
(can you tell I'm a CLI type?)
Moose.
la la laaaaaa
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
the ibook ships with FAR too little ram. Pop 256 more or even a 512 into it, and you'll be golden, especially with the optomized 10.1
Sounds weird to me to here OS X 10.1.
Reminds me of ATM machines and FAT testing.
Which means you have to wait for the third release (10.2?) for it to be really useful.
Best Slashdot Co
But thank you for your input all the same. No, really.
I have 10.1 (5G64 - RC1) running on a ice-book with 256 megs of RAM, and it's yummy. The biggest problem I have found is that the subtitles/overlays in the DVD player are offset.
I wish I could afford to buy a brand new computer every time Apple made an improvement!
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
I guess if you think that $20 is a fair amount to pay for shipping then, yeah, it's free.
-Waldo
Performance feels on par or better than the Asus A7V/Duron/700/Mandrake 8.0/KDE that sits next to it.
I had been holding off using Mac OS X as my everyday OS until now. 10.1 will go on my TiBook as soon as it's released.
For those of us who also happen to own a multi-processor machine and have been unable to run Mozilla as a native OS X app, it looks like part of the problem was with 10.0.4's MP support and will be fixed in 10.1. For more info, check out this bugzilla bug.
Perhaps this could even mean an end to the dial-up disconnection woes, as those, too, were MP related. (For those of you blissfully unaware, MP machines with a dial-up modem connection had a tendency to randomly drop said connection.)
All in all, very good news, especially since Apple appears to have listened to its customers and will be making the upgrade free.
With 10.1 not only do I get dvd play back on a "Unix Based" os but MS is releasing a preview version of Word X. Now before you Anti-MS Dolts get your panties tied in a Knot. If you don't use Macs and haven't seen Microsoft's Mac software. You're missing out. MSIE:MAC Runs better than it does under windows. (There goes that whole its only "Faster" Cause its integrated into the OS Theory) And Microsoft Office for the Mac has consistently been the most useful Office Suite on the market. Star Office doesn't have anything on it. And Office:Mac has consistently blown the pants off of Office:windows For a long time.
But anyways. Check out the Microsoft mac stuff at www.microsoft.com/mac/ and just drool over screen shots of Office v X
And on a final Note. I love my TiPB I love OSX and I don't understand how I used anything other htan it for all those years.
--------========+++Dont Feed The Lab Techs+++========--------
I've been using a beta of Office X for about a month now, and i have to admit it's great.
I installed it on a G3/500 Blue and White over the weekend (build 5G64 - the GM) and it is wildly fast. Boots the computer from button-push to full in 45 seconds. Opens applications easily 15 times faster (I did a check against 10.0.4 on another partition). Makes my old G3 *feel* like a G4. All in all, I'd have to say they have outdone themselves in this release (or spoiled us by giving us a really slow one first). I invite all Linux-heads to give it a shot - you may be surprised!
I have used some of the earlier builds of OSX(though I haven't gotten the latest yet). It should be noted for build 5G64, which I have heard is the Golden Master, DVD playback will not work on Macs that use hardware DVD-decoding(ie. B&W G3 or Yikes G4/PCI with DVD piggyback card, Lombard G3/400 models and perhaps Wallstreet PB G3s with the DVD decoder PC Card). Since some of these computers are the very ones that would most benefit from an OS speed increase, potential owners should check with Apple, or they might have to be prepared to continue using OS9 a little bit longer. Newer macs that use software decoding work great.
I agree...where are the speedups? I was expecting major improvements out of 10.1.
On my Wallstreet G3/300 with 256MB of RAM:
- slightly faster, but not drastically so.
- Launching IS much faster, but this is due to
two-level namespace linkage, not due to any
innate optimization.
- OpenGL still is not implemented for Rage Pro.
- Skyline/Lucent wireless cards still do not work.
Skyline is Farallon's fault, but the Lucent *SHOULD* work, since it worked under OS 9 without
any 3rd party drivers.
- Still cannot eject PCMCIA cards without shutting down. Though it no longer kernel panics when you
manually remove one.
- PCMCIA-based hard drives still are not recognized.
- Still won't play DVD. Apparently they don't support the hardware DVD decoder cards (this IS an officially supported machine...where's the official support?)
- The compiler is godawful slow. I took a project
that built in 58 seconds under OSX Server 1.2, and it takes over 5 minutes to build on OS X 10.1 (on a G4/400 with 1.5GB of RAM!)
- On the plus side, sleep FINALLY works. It used
to turn on the fan when I put the machine to sleep, which would promply drain my batteries dry.
10.1 is finally USABLE, but it's still not what I wonder consider great.
But he is. If he was alone, Apple wouldn't be the #1 Unix retailer today..
10.1 was supposed to speed things up, Linux on the Mac is reportedly pretty fast, given the upgrade to 10.1, what' the "fastest" os for a new Mac?
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Wow, the mod points flow like water in crApple stories.
THERE's the problem. If it were a $5 POS, no big deal, but you've already paid $60 for a hobbled, less functional mouse that you're just going to trash.
I guess if you can afford one of their desktop systems, you can afford to throw out a $60 mouse and not blink.
It's probably more expensive to manufacture single-button assemblies than two+ buttons, due to simple volume. Generaly, higher volume = lower price, this would likely prove esspecialy true in this case.
That's right Taco! Leave them alone or all 5 of your Apple using Slashdot readers will leave and never come back. Hell, you'd be giving up 50% of the total Apple marketshare.
MSIE:MAC Runs better than it does under windows.
BFD. If you've got MacOS, then you don't need MSIE anyway, because you've got iCab.
...is the sound of 10,000 Slashdot moderators opening their dictionaries to learn what the word "pleonasm" means.
Or at least to see if there's a picture of it.
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Look, you can't put a notebook on your lap and use your 5 button usb mouse. NUFF SAID. What I can't understand is why they can't make a 2 button "upgrade" kit for it?
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
How's the state of Java on OS X? Can it run JBoss and other big Java apps "out of the box"? Tomcat?
And how about hotspot or other optimization techniques?
How much memory did it have? I've got 256MB in my iBook and 10.0.4 runs fine for me. Window resizing and app loading is slow, but everything else is fast. And app loading is slow under every OS thanks to those pokey laptop hard drives, so I don't expect that to improve all that much in 10.1.
If someone made all of the two-button mice, maybe. But since there's approximately 10^9-1 companies that make two-button mice, the major reason they're "cheaper" is that the cheap ones are really cheap. I have one-button Mac mice that are five years old and still working quite nicely. I have two-button mice that lasted six months before something went wrong. I also have a two-button scroll mouse from Logitech that I got for $30 that's very nice.
"Economies of scale" only works for single products, not all similar products...
iCab is a really good web browser. My favorite feature is the little happy face that tells you how standards compliant your web page is (happy face = compliant, sad face = no compliant). I use it all the time to fix my html mistakes that other browers will overlook.
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
B&** s&$%! IE 5.1 beta for OSX is as unstable as rollerblading on a sailboat.
It should really be written Mac OS X.I VGLXIV.
Are there any have hard facts about whether or not the 10.1 upgrade will be available for free in the brick & mortar Apple Stores?
The press release states that the "free" upgrade will cost $20 for S&H direct from Apple, but I've heard rumors that the stores would let you pick it up for nothing.
That is just a product page that has been up for weeks, if not months. The news about how it will be released today/friday/saturday morning is in fact, quite a recent development, and mentioned nowhere on the Apple site (except for maybe the support discussion boards :)).
You can send for a CD for $19.99, or you can go to an Apple retailer and get a free update there at no cost. Also, the CDs will be in stores this Saturday. I would list the URL of the site doing live coverage of the keynote today, but they are already swamped. /.-ing them would certainly bring them down for good. If you are Mac news savvy you can easily find it.
--- What?
Noon pacific or Noon eastern or Noon ??? I don't know, but that's the news at Seybold from the Man himself.
--- What?
My guess on why they are doing the announcement but releasing it a few days later (Friday seems to be the day most sites are quoting) is to avoid the fiasco they had back in March when some store pre-sold OS X before its launch date. This way they can show it off, then ship the CD's and give them 3 days to get to all the stores before letting them loose officially. If a few get out early before the date via the stores, at least they will still be out after the keynote preview.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Well it looks like we will be able to get a copy on Saturday.
Although I bet it will be longer for some of us who don't live close to the new store.
I hope it lives up to all the hype.
-S
It is said that a child learns wisdom from the parent,
but the truly wise parent learns joy from the child
Does anyone know if the update can be downloaded for free, or can it only be obtained on CD?
I'm using a USB Kensington 3 button mouse, with the wheel, on my TiPB without any special software loaded. All the buttons work fine, and support is even better in the X.1. Basically, the right button works the same as a control click, and the wheel scrolls the Finder windows and application windows. Functionality in Classic mode is dependent on software.
Oh, and the buttons work as intended in XFree86. Rootless X works really well.
X.1 is running great, as advertised. Even my G3 runs well. I have over 300Mb in each machine, so I'm sure that helps. My only complaint is that I need driver support for my older printers. I can use them from Classic, but that can be a pain since I'm pretty much using all OSX apps now.
- Don
--- Really important broken features ---
--- Ok haha, the actually important broken feature:
There are no new features since the 4.5.237 release, just fixes for 10.1.
AIM status page
http://dynamic.aol.com/cgi/redir?http://www.aol.c
binhex download link
http://ftp.newaol.com/aimgen/73010/InstallAIM4.5.
I added a 256 Mb chip to my "icebook"-- everything is much faster-- although I spend most of my time running gnu software (installed through fink, sort of an apt-get for MacOSX).
I'm running 10.0.4.
512 Megs would be nice, but a 512 mb chip sells for ~$235. 256 Mb chips are only ~$36.
(Of course, if you buy memory from Apple, the prices skyrocket).
from macslash:
"OS X 10.1 will be available in stores this Saturday and a free upgrade for 10.0.x owners will be available in stores at no charge. As expected you can also order a CD containing the update for $19.99."
OS 10.1 perhaps OS X.I suits it better. "OS X 10.1" seems redundant.
Does a 10,000 nodes Beowulf cluster contain 9,999 pleonasms?
Biotech posters, you've got your work cut out for you.
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.
Specifically, is it bearable on a new iBook? When I tried 10.04 on a new iBook it was like running Windows 2000 on a Pentium 133
Well, it wasn't that slow.. but it was slow.
The reason is very simple.
The finder sucked and they didn't use the graphic acceleration of the videochip.
They rewrote the finder and turned on the grpahic acceleration of the videochip.
Last weekend we had a local MUG meeting in which Apple showed both an iBook and a G4 with MacOS 10.1.
The speed difference was quitte noticable.
The speed was equal to a Pentium III 1 Ghz with windows 2000.
So, it could be a little bit better but it was quitte acceptable.
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/
...
Not yet compatible with Mac OS X.
> MSIE:MAC Runs better than it does under windows. (There goes that whole its only "Faster" Cause its integrated into the OS Theory)
Perhaps not - is MSIE:Mac leaving some stubs running in memory all the time? If so, there's the answer. That's how Mozilla's 'turbo' mode works (only it's not so 'turbo' with v0.9.4).
> laptop because of it's lack of mouse buttons.
Not the fastest snail on the leaf, is he?
I was hardly an early adopter, but I had two buttons on my mac in '92 or so (ok, hardly an early adopter of the second button. I had a 128k mac brand new . ,
They're availalbe all over the place, and come with the software to make that second button do whatever you want . . .
hawk, who gets a kick out of folks with the button-deprived windows mouse mocking those only slightly more deprived
Oh, be fair. Wintel users get their Office upgrades first, and it takes us a few months to catch up. By the time they catch up, they have a few refinements they've made. It's not like it's a completely different product.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
I am also a big fan of MSIE:Mac, but it has a really nasty SSL bug that prevents me from using it for anything other than basic browsing. Basically, most sites are unable to establish an SSL connection and respond with an error like "Decryption error". So for now, whenever I need to shop or do secure loggins, I use Netscape 6.1 for OS X.
$45 per U Colocation Special
For instance, the nearest one to me is over 90 miles away, and I'm in the middle of the East Coast. Hopefully the nearby college bookstore (they sell a lot of Macs) will stock this, and not care whether I am a student there :)
But jeez, lighten up a bit.
I've only been using OSX for about a month now (got my first mac then). And I love it. It's a recent Quicksilver model, so honestly, I don't know what people are talking about when they say it's slow, but I guess it probably is on less recent hardware. What I really would like it more customization for the GUI, there's really very little you can do to change the appearance. They have two sets of button colors, and you can change the magnification and size of the dock, as well as the size of icons. Gee, that's fantastic, but that's it! Also coming from X and Windows, it's hell of hard to keep track of applications (maybe just because I'm switching from a taskbar to a taskbar clone- dock). But I seem to get flustered when I have too many applications open. I really wish they'd incorporate multiple virtual desktops like in X.
As far as features and stuff, well honestly I haven't noticed any lack of them. The OS is the pinnacle of compatibility and versatility. I can open MacOS9 in classic mode to run Microsoft Office (ya ya, Microsoft sucks, but if you haven't tried their version of Office on a Mac shut up), Internet Explorer under OSX along with whatever else I need, and I with the click of a button I'm transported to a Gnome desktop running my *nix X programs (the ones I don't need to run from a terminal). Oh yeah, and it's got a terminal. Using Fink it's a snap to install Unix software (granted not all the ports I want, but more are coming). It's funny the way it works, Microsoft products are actually much better on Macs. Or of course I could just log out of Aqua all together and run pure Darwin alone, or with X.
I was going to install NetBSD or Linux on the computer, but now I don't think I'll need to.
LOL, join the club, it doesn't work on Windows either so you aren't missing much :)
...is the sound of 10,000 Slashdot moderators clicking this link because they're too lazy to go look at a real dictionary. :)
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Don't you mean the GNU/Asus A7V/Duron/700/Mandrake 8.0/KDE that sits next to it?
Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever
> Now before you Anti-MS Dolts
>get your panties tied in a Knot.
>And Office:Mac has
>consistently blown the pants off of Office:windows For a long time.
Well, I suppose that explains it. With her pants blown off, the poor gal is tieing the knot just to get some more coverage . . .
:)
hawk, afraid he's giving someone an idea for another porn site . . .
I bet that neat intelimouse with 5 buttons didn't come with your computer, you bought it because you wanted all those features. You can do the same with a mac. Stop complaining, if you want a mouse with 6 billion buttons go out and buy one. Remember, a majority of apple customers have never used a computer before, one button is just easier to learn. Anyone that has tried to teach someone who has never used a computer before knows that they get the buttons mixed up.
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!
macslash has some blurbs with more details too, including info about the installer.
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
Ooh, you're running on the dull, rusty edge of technology, huh. ;>
I haven't picked up 10.1 yet, but here's the rundown on a more 'reasonable' machine (to the non-Mac people: Wallstreets are the 'fat' black powerbook form factor, and are around 3-4 years old now.):
Apple Macintosh Powerbook Pismo (released in 2000, the Pismos are the last Powerbooks made in the black curvy form factor with the bronze keyboards).
G3 500Mhz
640MB RAM
AirPort card
various accouterments.
The only problem I've had with OS X is that I've gotten the occasional kernel panic when using my external VST FireWire drive, but after hunting down the problem, I'm fairly certain that that actually has to do with the way the FireWire stuff on the motherboard was duct taped on over the SCSI stuff from the previous model Powerbook (The Pismos are the first PB to have FireWire ports). However, I am unwilling to rule out that I've jarred something loose in the past year of owning this Powerbook because I am hopelessly brutal to it.
From reading the beta test reviews of 10.1, it looks awesome. Remember that OS X is just like any other OS; it takes the developers some time to trick out the system simply because they haven't figured out all the hacks they can throw into a system yet. The Apple programmers are great, but they're no Woz. Do note that this happens in OSes like, say, Linux and *BSD as well.
Flame on...
--soze
I really want to upgrade but the following stuff doesn't work inside OS X. I could go into classic, but if I'm in Classic all day, why upgrade. I speak for many, many people.
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Illustrator
Final Cut Pro
Adobe After Effects
A decent Newreading client (MT-Newswatcher)
And Hotline sucks. Of course they're going under so we'll never see a Hotline Client that's OS X worthy.
I'm sure I'll upgrade eventually, but please get Final Cut Pro X out.
is me highlighting pleonasm and using Services to define this word....in OSX.
As a Mac user i always wondered if MacOSX meant someone crossed a mac with unix OS. But to my dismay it Means Mac OS 10. Then you add the rev. no. 10.0.x, 10.1.
Yep its a pleonasm.
http://www.kensington.com/products/pro_mic_d1399.h tml
;)
I'm pretty sure your vendor didn't ship with that five button mouse. I too bought a non-Apple peripheral to have more than one button...so what? It's not as if the operating system can't use more buttons if you have them. The low-level APIs in Mac OS X actually allow you to use up to a 65,535 button mouse, so I'm not real worried here
"consumer-usable" Unix has been around since the first stable builds of UNIX itself (not access to systems that ran it, but usability). It's very easy to use. About 15 years of marketing from our friends at Microsoft, Apple and others have told us otherwise.
Being I new mac user I can tell you that the computers now longer have any mouse buttons... hows that for progress....
:-)
And if you go to the Mac OS X section on Apple's site, you can see the updated info. This discusses the $19.95 upgrade and the in-store free update.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
> Ooh, you're running on the dull, rusty edge of technology, huh. ;>
:-(
Necessary evil. Nothing newer was capable of running Mac OS X Server 1.2, and until 10.1, I was unable to migrate my code to Mac OS X, because they were lacking Objective-C++ support. As soon as Apple release a PowerBook without the crappy Rage 128 card, I'll upgrade in a heartbeat now that 10.1 is out. I was hoping for some hardware announcements today... oh well
I just got off the phone with the Apple Store in Peabody. The kid I talked to said he thought they would have 10.1 on Saturday at the earliest, and that it would be free at the store. He said it was possible that some stores were burning CDs, but, since there was an official part # for the upgrade CD, that it was unlikely that such behavior was endorsed by Apple.
However, I didn't get the impression that he knew all there was to know. He stressed that it was not official that the update would be free in the physical stores.
FWIW, I've successfully started up (but not pounded on) Forte 2, using the standard "generic" Java startup instructions. However, one big problem - the icon bar at the top (for the Swing widgets) did not load the icons successfully. They all showed up as generic question mark icons making the palette useless. Also, it wasn't the speediest app I've ever run (but I only have a G3/266, the second slowest supported machine for Mac OS X). I haven't yet tried Forte 3, which was recently released.
These people have looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
While I agree that the Finder is a real dog in 10.0, I can't say it's really impacted my work. I've been using OS X as my primary OS since March (450MHz G3, 256MB RAM) and I've been pretty happy with everything besides the Finder. Project Builder, Ant (a Java build system), OmniWeb, Mail, iTunes all run acceptably for me. I launch all my apps at login and leave them running, so i don't often deal with slow launch times. I recently upgrade to a total of 768MB of RAM and that helped a bit too.
:)
Of course I'm still looking forward to 10.1
Try www.m-w.com
Use Mirrors, people!
Keynote ends. [13:33 ET]
Alias|Wavefron's Maya for Mac OS X shown by Andrew Pearce, Director of Maya Technology Group Alias|Wavefront... [13:29 ET]
LightWave renderer optimized for Alivec and MP Macs... [13:25 ET]
LightWave demoed under Mac OS X... [13:25 ET]
Lamkin reinforces commitment for Mac OS X - pokes fun at Schiller for saying the Office for X is the poster child for Mac OS X. He commented by asking Jobs in the audience when the last time was he showed performance comparisons between a Pentium and a Macintosh using Microsoft Word... [13:24 ET]
Bryan Lamkin from Adobe onstage with GoLive product manager to demo what is coming with GoLive for X. These are upcoming features and are not being officially announced today... [13:18 ET]
Crowd impressed with Excel for X... [13:14 ET]
Ken Bereskin demos Office for X... [13:13 ET]
Schiller talks about Microsoft and shows Office for Mac OS X (available in November). A demo can be seen at Apple Stores now... [13:11 ET]
Soghoian gets loud applause when showing a publishing scenario scripted in Mac OS X... [13:09 ET]
AppleScript Studio offers extensive customization and ease-of-use... [13:08 ET]
Soghoian shows AppleScript Studio... [13:06 ET]
Crowd reaction to AppleScript running on Mac OS X is very favorable... [13:05 ET]
Soghoian demos AppleScript with Illustrator for Mac OS X... [13:04 ET]
AppleScript Studio is a professional-level application for AppleScript users... [13:03 ET]
Sal Soghoian (AppleScript product manager) talks about AppleScript... [12:59 ET]
AppleScript Studio will be available by the end of this year... [12:58 ET]
Schiller discuss scriptability of Mac OS X using AppleScript... [12:57 ET]
Zimmerer shows high level of color control under Mac OS X... [12:56 ET]
John Zimmerer (ColorSync product manager for Apple) comes onstage to talk about ColorSync... [12:51 ET]
Schiller shows ColorSync 4... [12:50 ET]
Schiller shows movie trailer for Monsters, Inc. from Pixar... [12:47 ET]
Crowd reaction to iDVD 2 is impressive... [12:43 ET]
Mike Evangelist shows iDVD 2 (due in October) -- pretty much the same demo we saw at Macworld Expo New York last July... [12:38 ET]
Schiller back onstage talking about Mac OS X as the Digital Hub... [12:37 ET]
Mac OS 10.1 will recognize blank DVD-Rs and allow you to write to the DVD (drag and drop) right from the desktop... [12:35 ET]
Bereskin shows DVD capabilities under Mac OS X -- plays Batman Movie (original)... [12:33 ET]
Bereskin shows beauty/range of fonts under Mac OS X... [12:32 ET]
Bereskin shows flexibility of keyboard shortcuts... [12:31 ET]
System Dock may now be placed at the bottom of the screen, or to the left or right... [12:28 ET]
Mac OS 10.1 offers new "Scale Effect" for minimizing windows... [12:26 ET]
Bereskin's Mac crashes when trying to access Internet -- crowd laughs... [12:24 ET]
Bereskin demos application launching speed enhancements... [12:22 ET]
Ken Bereskin (Mac OS X product manager) introduced... [12:22 ET]
Graphics Enhancements: PDF 1.3 with 128-bit encryption, Faster OpenGL, Automatic USB printing, LaserWriter 8 and over 200 printer definitions... [12:20 ET]
Aqua Enhancements: Moveable Dock, System status items, File extensions, Log-in user lists, Simpler System Preferences, Long file names, Universal Access additions, Mail enhancements... [12:19 ET]
Main focus of Mac OS 10.1 is performance: Application Launching, Aqua Menus, Windows resizing, File Copying, Boot and Login, Java, OpenGL... [12:17 ET]
Schiller gives a history of Mac OS X -- Open Standards, Power of Unix married with the simplicity of the Mac, Ultimate Engine for the Digital Hub, Stunning Graphics, Deep Internet Integration, Seemless Mobility, Global Language Support, Gentle Migration, Enable Killer Apps ... [12:15 ET]
Schiller to show Mac OS 10.1 in this keynote... [12:10 ET]
Jobs introduces Phil Schiller... [12:09 ET]
Jobs discusses Microsoft Office for X. Free download of Word for X Test Drive available at noon (PT) today... [12:08 ET]
Upgrade for Mac OS X owners is free (US$19.99 shipping for CD). Current owners of Mac OS X can upgrade for free at local Apple dealers... [12:07 ET]
Mac OS 10.1 will be in stores this Saturday [12:05 ET]
Four software updates shipped for Mac OS X. First major upgrade to Mac OS X (10.1) announced today... [12:05 ET]
Steve Jobs discusses Mac OS X in general... [12:04 ET]
Phil Schiller will present keynote. Jobs giving a brief introduction... [12:02 ET]
Steve Jobs comes on stage [12:00 ET]
Timeo idiotikOS et dona ferentes
Apparently, some Quake3-guy got 90 fps on a dual 800 ppc MacOSX and only 30 fps on Win98 on dual P3-800. Read it somewhere today at www.linuxgames.com.
So it looks like it is possible to capture DVD video under Mac OS X 10.1...does the MPAA know about this?
-jon
Remember Amalek.
It is a completely different product, developed by a completely different development team, based in a completely different state. It just happens to be able to read the same file format. Saying it takes the Mac version a few months to catch up doesn't really make any sense. Some features come to the Mac version first, some come to the Windows version first. New versions aren't supposed to be synchronized in any way.
This space unintentionally left unblank.
I just got off the phone with the Apple Store in Mall of America, MN, and they assured me that it is just a rumor, and they will not be distributing discs untill Saturday. Thats what we get for beta testing thier OS.
Noon Pacific. The Apple sites are already pointing to MS, but MS doesn't have anything up yet.
I've used OS X.x fulltime since the day it was released. 10.1 sure looks like it has been worth the minor irritations of early adoption.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
£?? the Upgrade PDF, and came across this juicy bit
Multiple Qualifying Products on a Single Invoice
If you purchase multiple qualifying products
on a single invoice, you can either
(1) purchase a Single-User CD Upgrade Kit for each qualifying product, at a cost of US$19.95 each plus appropriate sales tax;*
or
(2)purchase fewer Single-User CD Upgrade
Kits and request the Right to Copy for the remaining qualifying products.
I wonder if that one was jobs'd?
The new optical mouse has no buttons. the entire mouse is a button!
http://www.apple.com/mouse/
"Besides all that,there's no distinguishable mouse button. Instead, the entire Apple Pro Mouse is in effect a super-sensitive button -- the body pivots up and down to actuate the click mechanism.
. . . say Microsoftie or something else. I use PC's and I don't run Windows.
My OS came with CD ripping, mp3 encoding, web serving, P2P client, high quality image manipulation, and tons of other stuff all out of the box.
Just please don't Lump me with Windows because I like PC hardware.
I develop on Mac OSX on a daily basis (I work for a design house as their sole nerd - Macs only at our place), and I can't wait for 10.1.
But, in every discussion I've read about 10.1, everyobdy refers to ordering their CD, delivery times, getting it at BestBuy, Micro Anvika, or whatever.
WTF? Are Apple going to charge us for an update the same way they charged us for a public beta? If they're not going to charge us, will be able to download it? If I can download 1.5Gigs worth of Linux RedHat off the web, why the hell can't I download OS 10.1?
If they're really going to charge/disallow downloads, then my G4's going in the dumpster and the mp3 server is getting Linux on it for my workstation.
Yeah I can just imagine my mother trying to use vi. LOL!
1. If you have never bought OS X, it is $129.
;) -- you can get it for free from them, while supplies last.
:-)
2. If you own Mac OS X Retail now, it is a $19.95 upgrade (*including* manuals, developer CDs, the works).
3. If you have an Apple Store near you (not store.apple.com
Well worth it -- OS X is truly amazing (even for the biased- impared
The next comment I write will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
"On the other hand Mac users are spoiled... what Windows OS comes with CD burning and DVD playback out of the box? Or even CD ripping and mp3 encoding, movie making, DVD burning software, and web server software out of the box? Windows users have to settle for Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer, on the average..."
Because, ya know.. When Apple does it it's just great! Wow! You can do stuff right out of the box, without having to buy a bunch of software!
When Microsoft does it, it's: Microsoft is a monopoly power! Get rid of the preinstalled browser! Ditch the preinstalled media player! We like 3rd party, yes we do!
Microsoft gives people what they want, then people bitch an moan about how unfair it is... Then, when it's gone, people like Mac uses will go around touting how your OS has so many more "features" than Windows.
You know, I'm all for controls. I don't love Microsoft, but I use their software. And I don't think it should only be Mac users who get the privalege of their OS being able to have OS-included programs. It's just the stupid double-standard that makes me annoyed. If Windows had a full-featured DVD player, they'd be antitrust monopolist bastards...Apple puts it in OS X and it's a selling point--heck people even bitched that it wasn't in the first release.
What's even worse is that all the monopoly-bashers still love OS X, because it has something to do with UNIX. Heck, if it has something to do with UNIX, it must be better than Microsoft.
I'm sure I'll get modded down to the pits of "Troll" just for pointing this out... But I'm hoping people will actually read my post and realize the hypocritical stance that is being taken here.
-Jayde
What's a sig?
"...I had two buttons on my mac in '92...They're availalbe all over the place, and come with the software to make that second button do whatever you want . . ."
So, for the past 9 years Company A has been making what you consider an inferior product but you are still buying and patching it to do what you want. When there are superior products out there that do it correctly out of the box.
The joke here isn't "single button mice make macs hard to use" it is "the persistence of the single button mouse design error shows how little Apple really cares about usability".
324006
The argument is that if MS bundles DVD software out of the box, most users wouldn't bother to check out 3rd party versions.
While the Finder was slow, OS 10.0.0-4 most certainly does use the 2D acceleration of the ATI 128 chip in the new iBook. It's the older Rage Pro notebooks that weren't accelerated.
To get the upgrade, you have to fill out a form by hand and mail it in with Proof of Purchase. Then you get to wait 6-12 weeks for them to send it to you. Plus, they give no indications as to where you can get instant upgrades, nor does CompUSA's site have any info on it. Seems pretty unacceptable to me.
http://www.naildrivin5.com/davec
For the Windows and Linux bigots, relax. You don't have to get so tense. If you don't think OS X is worth your time, then just ignore it.
On the otherhand, if you have a bit of an open mind, you owe it to yourself to check it out. (Make sure you're checking out 10.1 and not 10.0.x)
It really is cool to have a mainstream commercial app like MS Word and say GIMP running rootless right next to it.
It really is cool to program with the Cocoa dev tools. (Yes, it requires you learn Obj C, but if you're a true geek, you love trying another language)
It really is cool to have a BSD-based system that even your grandmother could install and use.
It really is cool that the BSD-subsystem is available for anyone to hack on (Darwin).
It really is cool that there's a commercial company (Apple) guiding the OS and putting in all the most sophisticated plumbing (Aqua, IOKit, etc) that probably would never have gotten done or would have gotten done poorly otherwise.
It really is cool that all the major commercial app manufacturers have already pledged their support (many have already delivered) and that many apps which have never been on the Mac before are now coming over.
It really is cool that there's going to be a decent selection of games for this platform. Not Windows numbers by any stretch, but all the major titles and certainly more than Linux.
In short, if you take the time to look, it really is a very cool OS. Now, maybe you don't want to spend the extra money to buy a Mac. No problem. But that doesn't make it any less of a product.
Wade
Apple machines look nice and are well made, but they still cost a premium compared to Intel laptops. The other problem is that you don't get much of a choice: if you don't like Apple's choice of peripherals (like their awful touch pad), you are out of luck.
Its funny that such a huge issue has been made out of how slow OS X is. Yeah, it's slow.
The funny thing is people comparing it to Win 2000 or even Mac OS 9. How can you make an objective statement like "it's way slower"? After using OS X for a few weeks without booting into 9.1, I was shocked at how slow 9.1 can be. Sure it accomplishes tasks in a shorter amount of time, but you also have to sit and wait for those tasks to be completed.
The fact that something takes longer on OSX is a moot point since I can work in another app without losing responsiveness. The performance trade-off for pre-emptive multi-tasking is well worth it to me.
I'm glad there is so much feedback to Apple about how to make OS X better, and it sounds like they're listening. Certainly OS X has a long way to go before it can be considered a refined OS. For myself, however, OS X is everything I had hoped for and more (Photoshop+BBEdit+BSD=150% web design productivity). It's so perfect for me, that I no longer worry about Apple staying afloat. Ironically the OS is so good that I don't care if it attracts new customers. I am considering buying some Apple stock, however, as I can only see OS X gaining market share.
With OS X it should be trivial to offer 2 button functionality by making the button proper do the normal mouse button action, while having the trackpad tap perform a ctrl-click..
You can probably get a off-brand for less, but a Dell, Sony, IBM or other major brand is going to be pretty close for the same features.
But PC people always forget that Mac users don't make decisions by building a matrix of dollars versus features. They're attracted by the design and elegance of the platform, in addition to how well the hardware and software work together. They're willing to pay a bit more for that.
But, I've never yet been able to make a PC user understand that.
But anyways, if Windows floats your boat, then by all means, save a few hundred bucks and stick with Windows.
Wade
>one button is better
How about the people who INVENTED it? Jef Raskin, originator of the Macintosh product, was often a visiting academic and consultant at PARC and joined Apple. He had done useability studies which demonstrated that NORMAL people (the target market for the "for the rest of us" Macintosh) found a ONE button mouse easier to use than the original Xerox mice (which had THREE buttons. Remember, not EVERYONE in the world has a PhD in CS. Hell, even people at PARC (plenty of PhDs there.. and plenty of human interface experts as well) and Raskin HIMSELF had mouse button errors, as he describes here.
Myself, I don't have Raskin's expertise, nor have I done any "useability studies". But I worked tech support and helldesk jobs when I was in college. And *I* can sure tell you the anguish of getting a call from someone who didn't understand "left-click" vs. "right-click", and trying to explain the difference.
cya,
john
Imagine all the people...
A: The one mouse button was thought up by a guy named Jeff Raskin who is largely responsible for starting the Macintosh project at Apple. He thought that mouses with more than one mouse button would be confusing for new users. This might seem like an oversight, but when you consider how uncomplex graphical interfaces were back than and the fact that virtually no computers in mass production had mice as an essential navigational tool, it really isn't.
A: Because we can use the regular pull down menus to bring up a menu. If you take a look at *NIX & Windows UI's, you often see that not all menu items for the program are in the pull-down menus. Often, there are some commands that you can only access through right-clicking (i.e. the contextual menu). When this is the case, you're going to need a 2nd mouse button. Contrast this with the mac paradigm, where is it a cardinal sin to have commands that are not listed in the pull-down menus.
A: No and yes. Unlike other platforms, macs have the pull-down menubar at the top of the screen instead of on each window, like you usually find on Windows or GNOME or KDE (yes, KDE does have a mac menubar mode, but not by default). A menubar at the top border of the screen has been proven in usability labs to be far faster to access than menubar stuck on a window, because the user can ram the mouse pointer into the top of the screen to click on the inital menu item and they can't overshoot. This illustrates a principle of Fitt's Law, which states that things on the borders are faster to access than things that aren't because they are infinitely large . To learn more about Fitt's law, go here . This being said, contextual menu (i.e. right-clicking) is faster IF you can do it anywhere to bring up the same menu anywhere on the screen, because the mouse pointer can be anywhere and the menu will appear right under it. Unfortunately, bringing up a contextual menu in windows/GNOME/KDE almost always requires that you first land the mouse on a tiny visual target. If you have to click on a tiny 15x10 pixel icon in an e-mail program to bring up a contextual menu for it, any speed advantage of right clicking is negated.
A: The reason that mac users use those keyboard strokes is because Apple was smart enough to have the keyboard complement the mouse instead of replacing it. Just like right-cliking is supposed to do on windows. Notice that the command key most often used on macs for the keyboard combinations is located in a spot that is in the center of the keyboard, so a user doesn't have to stretch their fingers 3 miles to hit an out of the way key. Also notice that keyboard strokes using the command key make use of the two most dextrous fingers of the human hand: the index finger and the thumb. The result is that keyboard shortcuts on a mac are easy to do, and they can be done easily with one hand. Why don't Windows users use keyboard shortcuts as often as mac users? Because microsoft was stupid and tried to have the keyboard replace the mouse instead of complmenting it. They added those underline thingies on all the menus (technically, they're called mnemonics), which are far less efficient because you have to hit two sets of keys "Alt+firstletter Alt+secondletter" to use them. This added so much visual clutter and so jammed the users mental keyboard-menu associations that most Windows users also filtered out the keyboard shortcuts (i.e. Ctrl+letter). There is even less incentive to use keyboard shortcuts on windows because the ctrl key that makes use of them is far at one end of the keyboard, which makes keyboard combinations with keys in the center of the keyboard very hard to do with one hand and impossible to easily with the two most dextrous fingers of the human hand (the thumb and index finger). One final advantage of mac keyboard shorcuts is that the command key is represented in the menu system by a symbol that take up one character's worth of menu real-estate as opposed to "Alt" or "Ctrl", which take up 3-4 characters of menu real-estate.
A: Yes. I don't think you'll find many mac users who are against having more than one mouse button, but they are against some dumb windows/unix geek who knows nothing about macs and who refuses to learn anything about the way they are designed arrogantly assuming that the machine is unusable in some sort of way.
Historically (pre- System 7.1) MacOS was free (as in beer.) You yould go to any Apple reseller with a stack of floppies and copy the installation disks, while the salespeople showed off their latest gewgaws. So this really isn't a new thing for Apple.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
So, it seems fairly established that US Macheads will be able to walk into a Mac store/reseller and pick up a 10.1 CD on Saturday...
What about the UK? Will I be able to go into Micro Anvika in London with my G4 invoice on Saturday and pick it up?
Why doesnt apple.com/uk give any info about getting it in the UK? It just has a link to the US page.
You oughta try out 5G64, a little faster, a little less buggy.
I like my control key. It does me wonders. Except when I'm trying to play Quake.
Sorry. Monopolies are dangerous. I don't really care how good the software is, I don't want it.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
How easy will it be to circumvent -- anyone know?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
You write "OSX will be gone the minute the company loses interest" In my 31 years of being belly up to computo-techno-nerdish machines, I've observed ONLY ONE constant: Change. What this has taught me is to *NEVER* make absolute assertions. *GRIN* "It is not without reason that ... described him as a very dangerous man" *GRIMACE*
I really wish they'd incorporate multiple virtual desktops like in X
I believe what you want is Space.dock.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I am also a big fan of MSIE:Mac, but it has a really nasty SSL bug that prevents me from using it for anything other than basic browsing. Basically, most sites are unable to establish an SSL connection and respond with an error like "Decryption error"
I've never ever seen this. But the MacIE team has recently been made aware of an issue with mod_ssl.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I don't know how many graphic designers on the mac there are out there, but someone HAS to mention that MAYA (you know the extremely badass 3d system used in final fantasy, toy story, shrek, et al) was recently released for the mac for the first time just a couple days ago. This is a MAJOR advantage for the mac.. A real reason for me to switch from NT based systems. At least now I'll have a decent photoshop to work with maya on. (on my sgi, I have PS 3. blech.)
rJames.org - illustration
'When Microsoft does it, it's: Microsoft is a monopoly power!'
Not quite the same, actually. Yes, both demonstrate a monopoly hold on their respective markets, PCs and Macs, but Microsoft, in asserting their monopoly, use it to force out competitors and enter new markets.
So bundling a browser, or heck, integrating a browser into the OS, is fine, it's dandy. Heck, I use it to download Netscape. The problem isn't the bundling, it's using their aforementioned monopoly to force out competition; like Netscape. Not only did they bundle, which I think is fine, or integrate, which is still fine, they coerced OEMs with the threat of higher licensing fees if they shipped with Netscape as the default, or if they linked to Netscape on the desktop.
In similar veins, it's okay for XP to integrate with WMP, or offer CD burning, or whatever; it's not okay for them to use their monopoly on the desktop to coerce OEMs not to install, say, Real, or Quicktime, or Flash, as that might interfere with Microsoft's move into the media content and distribution arena.
GPL Deconstructed
I actually don't particularly care for either MacOS or Windows. The reason for me for getting a commercial system like that is that, between them, the Apple and Microsoft platforms have pretty much monopolized the digital media markets and banking software. It doesn't matter how good alternative software is, it just can't get into that market. So, to watch DVDs, web broadcasts, and do on-line banking, I want a small, unobtrusive, cheap machine. The question is really whether I want to pay $100 to Gates's empire, or whether I want to pay a premium of a few hundred dollars for a MacOS machine that I can at least telnet into.
The one thing we discovered was that some applications (notably Foxpro, etc.) worked far slower on the Macs. I'm not sure but I was guessing that this was an optimization issue..
This probably had a lot to do with the fact that Microsoft apps on the Mac were direct ports of the Windows versions for long time. Performance was horrible, and Word 6 was probably the epitome of this situation.
In 1997, Microsoft created the MacBU -- Macintosh Business Unit. It's run as a separate company. (I believe it's based in Mountain View, CA). They develop Office, IE and Outlook Express. All of these apps were written from the ground up for the Mac. They are seperate products from the Windows family (different features), but they are compatible. Office 2001 got rave reviews across the board, and many felt it was actually better than its Windows counterpart.
I suspect (though cannot guarantee) you will not see the performance problems you describe in Office X.
There is still Microsoft software for the Mac that is not developed by the MacBU. This includes Media Player, Outlook and Messenger. These applications are direct ports from Windows, and are generally considered, well... it can certainly be argued that there's room for improvement.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
I believe Mac OS X is the brand name, and 10.1 is the revision. The official name is:
Mac OS X 10.1
My guess is the X is to clearly distinguish this Mach/BSD platform from the earlier versions of Mac OS X. If it all seems strange, remember the whole Solaris/SunOS thing.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Instead of "Bond. James Bond", it's "OS Ten. Ten Point One"
The internet provides a great means for observing the progression of mental illness throughout the world regardless of race, religion and OS affiliation.
--- What?
I think it's a little more complicacted than that, now if they crippled other software, used 'hooks' in the OS to allow it to burn faster unfairly, and forced OEM's to not bundle any Roxio software, then you've got a problem.
If you're happy with one button, GOOD FOR YOU. Happy day. You're obviously not going to trash the mouse. Duuuuh.
If you're not, you just wasted $$$ on a bundled device that retails for $60. Ouch. I'm sure it doesn't quite cost the consumer that when they buy the whole system, but Apple has extremely healthy profit margins, so it's going to cost close to that. That really sucks when you can get a nice Logitech wheel/optical USB mouse for $25.
I have tried one-button mice and they suck (IMHO). Even worse (for me) is the lack of the wheel. There are others who feel the same way, just as you have other one-button devotees. It only starts to gall me that they would bundle such an expensive mouse, particularly without added functionality that a lot of us have come to expect and even rely upon.
X plays nice with two-button mice by default.
Also, since peecees require a "feature" (second mouse button) that over 75% of their userbase doesn't understand how to use makes it a "design flaw" and not a "feature".
Who did what now?
http://www.apple.com/macosx/whatyoucando/projectbu ilder.html
---
Information wants...you to shut your pie hole.
There's 2 ways to get this upgrade.
Option 1, the so called 'instant upgrade'. Starting on September 29th, Apple resellers(including the Apple store and other retail outlets. probably CompUSA, MicroCenter, etc) will get CDs that will upgrade from Mac OS X 10.0.4 -> 10.0
Cost: Gas to get to the store
Option 2: The Apple Mac Up To Date program. You print out a PDF form and mail it to Apple. They mail you back the OS X 10,1 CD, as well as the Mac OS 9.2.1 CD and Developer Tools CD, I believe.
Cost: $19.99, a 6-12 week wait(according to the PDF form)
I think I'll swing by a CompUSA saturday, which is when they hand out the CDs(yes, saturday is the release date. Saturday is always the day retail Apple OS's go on sale it seems...)
-Henry
"Useless organic meatbag" -HK-47
Heise says it's in the shelves here on saturday. And they say that in german, of course, so use the fish.
This sig is stolen from someone who had a much better idea than I had.
You wouldn't happen to be running one of the pre-release builds, would you?
Does it make you happy you're so strange?
A design flaw in 75% of windows users, or in windows itself?
Sorry, couldn't resist. But it seems like the former to me. Just because people aren't curious about anything beneath the immediately obvious is not a reason to call it a windows design flaw.
Apple did usability studies many many many years ago and blah blah blah and they know everything so if you don't get exactly and precisely what you intended to do it is YOUR FAULT. The user interface is perfect, you who wish to change it are uneducated, and you must learn PATIENCE to wait for the contextual menu, it will make you a better person.
How DARE you question Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This looks like a lot of fun
script menu Now a place to put my Perl scripts.
photosMy Photostream
Actually, MSIE/Mac does not run better on any version of Mac OS, including Mac OS X than it does on Windows. While it is faster in 10.1 that it was in 10.0, it is at least an order of magnitude slower on Mac OS X compared to Windows and the JavaScript support is not on parity with Windows.
The nicest thing about running MS apps on a Mac is that they are just applications like any other ... they don't run extra programs in the background or change the OS or crash Netscape. You drag an app from CD to hard disk to "install" it, and if you don't want to keep it, you Trash it and that's that. I always Trash Entourage because jazzy email is less important to me than suffering from MS email viruses (the most common Mac virus is an Outlook virus and the second most common is a Word virus). No installers or uninstallers, no files littered around the hard drive. Word is one icon, Excel is one icon, etc.
... perhaps it is much easier for new users, I don't know (templates and whatnot).
As for what's running at any one time, Mac OS X includes an app called ProcessViewer that will show you exactly what your system is doing. Word X seems to use only use process (in other words, no trickery and running when it shouldn't be or whatever). I don't know if that answers the question about stubs.
Word seems to work just fine. I don't know about the Aqua toolbars, though. Panels are just bearable in Aqua, but toolbars look fancy enough to decorate a stagecoach. Luckily, you can turn any toolbar into a panel, and the most common features are already on panels.
Word X also has new app and document icons, much better than the last version. (The app icon also has car keys hanging off it for the "test drive".)
This is a version of Word I could actually like, rather than just being forced to use it by a publisher. In some ways, though, it's a bit depressing to see how little change there is between Word 5 and Word 10. Geegaws come and go, but 90% of your actions in Word are about the same in 10 as in 5. Maybe that's just from the perspective of someone who knows how to work with text
I'm not seeing anything free here.. why is apple charging for a patch much needed to it's poorly written and feature crippled .0 version... personaly.. I thought of OS 10 as OS 0.10.. but.. I guess.. apple needs to gouge in order to make money..
I wonder if I can configure the startup "bong" on my iMac to softly wisper "w3 0wn j00"...
V Slightly off topic I know but... I have always been interested in why my Mac couldn't do something that my PC took for granted (don't get me wrong, I love my Mac). On my PC, I can use a CD-RW and burn a dozen files, the next day I can insert the same CD-RW, and add a dozen more to those already burnt on there, the next day I could add some more... ad infinitum until the disc is full, or you erase some of the files. Why on Mac's (and apparently in OS X 10.1 too)) do you have to erase the entire CD before writing new stuff? I have asked Apple, and that elicited the fantastic non-response "because". So I'm hoping you knowledgeable slashdotters can help me out, because as far as I can see, there doesn't seem to be any big problem involved here, and I was kinda hoping this feature would be in 10.1.
This sig has been deprecated.
...everything you said didn't apply to Windows as well. ;-P
"The 'monopoly' argument above doesn't apply to Apple, because Apple is in no position to stifle competition, whereas Microsoft has done so, and two court verdicts have affirmed this conclusion."
Apple can stifle the heck out of any software written for the Mac OS. In fact, they have a track record of doing so in the past. Apple has pushed 3rd party developers around just as much as any other company with a "platform" in order to promote their way of doing things.
"Apple is a HARDWARE company that makes software to enhance the value of their hardware. Think Nikon or Canon -- they write software to support the features of their digital cameras. If you don't like MacOS X, you can run some flavour of Linux or BSD instead. So much for 100% control, eh?"
Oh, right. OK. What was I thinking? Since all of Apple's software are just "enhancements", the same concepts no longer apply. Whatever. Nikon and Canon don't make Operating Systems. Trying to pawn Apple off as a hardware company is total bull. They are both a a hardware AND software company. I don't see Intel writing PentiumOS and bundling PentiumViewer, PentiumDVD, PentiumExplorer, and the almightly IntelTalk networking protocal.
And, as for your last comment... I believe that if you don't like Windows, you can run some flavour of Linux or BSD instead. So much for total control, eh? Heck, I think most Linux users run on Microsoft's supposed monopoly platform (IBM/Compat. computers) and not Mac's, last time I checked. Also, last time I checked, it has always been significatly harder to rid a Mac of the MacOS than it is to rid an IBM/Compat. of Windows.
"If a professional musician wants to concentrate on his or her craft (music), they want a system that has the features they need with the minimum fuss required to get it working. Same goes for video editors, digital imaging professionals, and other creative types who don't want to have to figure out which distro works with what. This market is a large percentage of Apple's customers, so from a business standpoint it makes good sense to bundle 'creative' apps with the OS -- just like MacOS included MacWrite and MacPaint in 1984, and it didn't prevent ISV's from writing alternatives."
And yet it doesn't make sense to bundle Media Player and INternet Explorer with Windows? Because, no no, the average home user REALLY wants to download the nightly build of Mozilla and contribute to the BugZilla project. And, shurly they want to go to real.com and click through 18 pages of ads, be asked to sign up for 50 newsletters, and click "No, I'm sure I don't want RealPlayer Plus" 7 times just to play some MP3s.
"Some people's stupidity is simply amazing."
Indeed it is. Those who cannot realize that they hold such a huge double-standard truly amaze me.
-Jayde
What's a sig?
Without MS's monopoly power, you wouldn't have Netscape and the likes trying to gain prominance in the MS ecosystem... and then falling to Microsoft itself.
Look at Id software for an example of someone who lives/thrives inside the Microsoft ecosystem but refuses to defer to the giant, by using OpenGL and releasing games on Mac OS and Linux.
On the other hand, Netscape, for all it's posturing, does support many more platforms, OSes, and architectures than Microsoft does.
GPL Deconstructed
To shut down an OS/2 machine, you had to right-click on the desktop. I would consider that a design flaw because 1) only 25% of the users *could* guess it and 2) Of those, they would still have to guess correctly (I failed at this).
I can't think of anything so egregious in Windows, except having to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to change your password (which might have been fixed).
On the other hand, it meant that most people who used OS/2 had a handle on right-clicking.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I can't think of anything so egregious in Windows, except having to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete to change your password (which might have been fixed).
... which is actually for security reasons, because it's a hardware interrupt which means that keyloggers etc. can't get between you and the password dialog box and sniff the password.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
1. It's the year 2001 now. UIs have moved on. The mouse should as well.
2. That's not the case in pretty much every app I've every used.
3. You don't have to do that. You just right click anywhere on the document window. ANYWHERE. That's not a tiny X by Y window; that's HUGE.
4. You obviously have never used a Windows system. Shortcut keys work the same way as the command key shortcuts. Mnemonics are mainly for ACCESSIBILITY/power user usage - they make the system easier to use by people with disabilities (eg. those who have difficulty using a mouse), and people who remember the keystroke combos. Usually a sequence will include both a mnemonic AND a control-key sequence. So there's actually more flexibility here than Apple provides.
Not only that, but your "Alt / Ctrl take up too much space on the menu" comment is insane. There's NO real-estate to take up - the menu is a separate window on both the Mac and Windows, and expands to fits its contents... ON BOTH SYSTEMS!
And no, most users remember the keyboard shortcuts and NOT the mnemonics. The mnemonics don't 'jam peoples minds' at all. Where have you been reading this claptrap?
As for your point 5:
5. [mac users are] against some dumb windows/unix geek who knows nothing about macs and who refuses to learn anything about the way they are designed arrogantly assuming that the machine is unusable in some sort of way.
Well, that's the pot calling the kettle black, because that's what you just did throughout your entire post, but against Windows.
Get a fricking clue.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Actually, these are most of the new features that will be included with Windows XP, included with their new Windows Media Player, etc.
The one mouse button was thought up by a guy named Jeff Raskin
Actually, that's Jef Raskin, author of an excellent book, The Human Interface: New directions for Designing Interactive Systems [powells.com].
nope, he's not alone. there are quite a few Dell/gateway/Compaq(we only do business apps) types defecting to the Apple side daily, once they discover that they don't have to hate the computing experience anymore, many find it quite liberating.
try it sometime. most apple users have suffered throught the peecee experience and moved on.
where the fuck is swaziland? Is it near naziland?
I think they could just ask the slashdot staff for some tips on how to aviod getting laid.
For the numerous posts stating that 5G64 (build number) is the final, it's not, 5G68 is. But 64, has most of the bugs tarnished out, and is very close and almost perfect, exep for few samll glitches that may not be that significant between 64 and 68, but are annoing and they will probably be whiped out by 68. And let's not forget that lat time, when os x (build 4K78) came out, there were numerous DIFERENT builds with the SAME number, to trow off pirates into not knowing which one is the "Good one" so if you are going to "Test drive os x before it's officially out, remember: it may not be the real thing.
so wahit till it's out, buy it, and be assured.
Pleonasm - A term that is usually defined as the use of many more words and/or phrases than it would seem a person might ever need or require to merely express in a written or oral manner whatever simple idea or thought that person might be thinking.
sorry... giggles took over... Steve Jobs makes a terrible James Bond in my imagination
circumambages, circumbendibus, circumlocution, periphrase, periphrasis, redundancy, roundabout, tautology, verbality
I shopped around for a laptop. I compared prices & features. I bought an iBook. First Apple I've ever owned.
OSX was a big selling point as I want to be able to run Apache, MySQL, PHP, etc. In short I wanted a portable Web server for demonstrating my work.
The displays great despite the size, it has Firewire, 2 USB ports, 10/100 ethernet, I can connect it to video, tv, projectors, etc. and Acqua totally rules. I have no speed complaints at all, an excellent Quake III frame rate, all my favourite GNU/Linux tools are pre-installed or easily compiled for OSX, it came with Project Builder and all manner of other fancy development tools and Objective C, despite my early scepticism, is proving to be a remarkably useful and powerful language.
I called the Store in Tyson's Corner this morning and talked to a tech who was very tired of people calling and asking if they could burn CDRs of the update. Here's what he told me:
1) No, you cannot burn 10.1 on CDR at the Apple Store
2) When I talked to him at around 11AM, he did not know of any plans to _sell_ the update in-store. He didn't rule it out completely; he just said that they had not received any of the update packages. However, I read an Apple press release later in the afternoon that indicated otherwise: updates (in limited quantities ) will be available at the stores.
Now, I did talk with one of my co-workers and found out the the CDR rumor had some truth to it originally but it was completely unofficial. Now that so many people have been calling the Apple Stores, I don't think this will be happening at all.
Context Clicking is to the UI what OO is to Procedural Programming. With no contextual menus, you have to browse through a slew of menus which may or may not have any applicability to the object you're interested in manipulating. With context clicking you're immediately presenting with a menu pertaining directly to the object you're interested in. That's fantastic.
I have a Titanium, which I'm very happy with except for the lack of a second mouse button. My god, there's a triple click for certain actions. How can you not have a second button, yet find triple clicking acceptable?
I might seem crazy about this stuff, but it is my pet peeve when geeks push geek stuff on non-geeks.
Ummm, maybe someone WANTS that other button or a scroll wheel? They could be a non-geek.
Now please resume your shoving down our throats of your ONE BUTTON IS ENOUGH FOR ANYONE WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT crap.
And $60 is still a chunk of change to throw out just to replace with a $25 Logitech optical wheel mouse. That's a whole lotta profit and not a lot of flexibility for those few mutant geeks that love to inflict their devious wishes on the rest of society.
I have a Titanium, and I enjoy context menus....
Where do you 'triple click'?
GPL Deconstructed
Incorrect on the Up To Date program. It states you get a 10.1 upgrade CD. The only way to get a 'full version' CD is to pony up the $130 for new retail box.
Yeah, that's a real sharp corner they cut; shaved a whole dollar off of the cost of making the iBook. What a savings! You do a lot of figuring, Rob. It's just too bad you don't ever do it with your brain.
In case you've never used a Mac, Apple's OSes are specifically designed with a single-button mouse in mind which means you don't lose any functionality from being 'hobbled' with only one mouse button. Even if you do opt for a polybuttoned mouse, most of them (like, say, Microsoft's fairly nice Intellimouse series) come with drivers that let you do Ctrl+Click and other actions with the extra mouse buttons.
Cut costs indeed. A very small laptop with a decently high resolution screen with built-in modem and ethernet, two USB ports, a firewire port, the option for wireless ethernet, and even does TV-out while only giving up a single mouse button (which you don't need) and the PCMCIA slot (which you'd likely only have used for a network card of some sort anyway) is cutting corners? Give me a break.
You can bitch about it if you wanted to run Linux on the iBook, but then you'd just have people telling you to use BenH's kernels or go buy yourself a mouse and shut up. :-)
The last Mac-oriented store in the area went bust a few months back, so this is probably more of an ego trip than a profit center. Steve Jobs lives nearby.
If you have to click on a tiny 15x10 pixel icon in an e-mail program to bring up a contextual menu for it, any speed advantage of right clicking is negated.
You're forgetting something about contextual menus: the "contextual" part.
Say there are 20 of some object on the screen (maybe hyperlinks or textboxes), I want to tell the program which one I want to perform an action on (perhaps "copy link location" or "paste"). It takes less time to right-click on the object than it does to left-click on it and then go to the menu at the top of the window/screen. And with hyperlinks, clicking the object performs a different action than the one I wanted (following the link), so I'm stuck if I only have one mouse button.
The shareholder is always right.
CONTROL CLICK! CHRIST.
asdfsdenrweoihj sf.;ajdfh;lasdhf wer wal;erjk
-0- lameness filter avoidance technology -0-
Apple is the Netscape of operating systems. It simply isn't good enough.
http://opax.swin.edu.au/137591/img/crapple.png
Apple - undrpowered, overprced.
'Nuff said.
I looked at my elder child trying to use a mouse. He was 2 years old at this time. It was a standard 3 buttons pc mouse. He did not get it. He always pushed the wrong button got irritated and usually gave up after a few minutes. I took an apple mouse and connected it to the pc. The difference was astounding.
Now he is 3 1/2 and uses mac os x pretty well. His brother, which is 2 years old, is also able to use the os x machine to launch games, play them and exit.
I use three button mouses, but the usability difference between one button and two button mouse is very real for novice users. Apple is right. They should ship only one button mouses, so developers make usable products. Power users can buy an extra mouse.
Cheers,
--fred
On the other hand, it meant that most people who used OS/2 had a handle on right-clicking.
having to drag things around on the desktop with the right mouse button took a lot of getting used to as well...or am i remembering the workplace shell incorrectly?
So the remaining 99% of Apple users get to suffer with a crippled product because somebody doesn't want their 2 year old to be confused? Get a grip!
If it's really that big a deal, map all 3 buttons to do the same thing.
No you don't get it. The two years old is just a real-world example. I bet that my dad would have the same kind of reaction. They key thing is that there is a real usability difference between one and three button mouses.
Apple target a market of computer illiterates. Having applications usable with a single mouse button render the whole system more usable. Shipping one button mouses with every mac is a way to ensure that all applications will keep this level of usability.
I use both mac and PCs, and I admit that the contextual menu is great. But as there are some PC applications that provide some functionality _only_ with the contextual menu, you end up clicking on every possible part of the screen, trying to discover is the context menu change. Not brillant.
Cheers,
--fred
The guy this reply is to gets modded up to +4 for getting it completely wrong, and this sits at zero.
> interface. No one really ever seems to know what it is, or how to use
> it, until they've seen it in action.
The answer: 26 minutes.
The question: How long doe it take from cracking the shipping case on a new mac to set it up and have your secretary's first memo printing. [I believe the figure is now substantiall longer0.
The early mac interface was intuitive; it lost a lot over times (and even more in windows).
>3) Because Jef Raskin simply decided to go with a single button by
> fiat. IIRC he did no user testing.
HUH??? No. bzzzt. etc.
Apple did extensive testing before determining that training time was significantly less for one button. istr that raskin fought for mre and lost.
the MS mouse has two for the simple reason that apple has one. Three is a minimum for my tastes
hawk, still amused that the comment was moderated insightful rather than funny . . .
In the 32 years since UNIX began it's existence, the "consumer" we speak of has changed. In 1969 when UNIX began, my mother would never have had a computer. My father-in-law wouldn't attempt to use a computer to alter his digital photography work.
In the 70's, IBM had a huge mainframe with terminals they sold to the Washinton Post to replace typesetting. The typesetters union revolted, struck, and made a general mess of the place with ink. The system failed, not due to this, but due to the fact that, by the time it was completed, millions invested, microcomputers were beginning to appear, not running UNIX, that had the power to set type. A few years later, and desktop publishing became possible. Aldus marketed Pagemaker, got bought by Adobe, and hit one out of the park.
As much as I like UNIX, and I do, it was never meant for tomorrow's consumer, who no longer has to tolerate a steep learning curve.
I don't have to fool with punch cards, or physically adding platters to the hard drive- I don't have to wait for my printout at the chain driven lineprinter. The consumer is an ever moving target, and the Next Big product always makes it easier for that consumer.
If it's so freely distributed why don't people start posting ISO's?
I have an ftp if anyone wants to post to it.
AIM: MWarren83
Food for thought:
The single easiest GUI to use I've ever encountered was on a Xerox Star, when I had a summer job at Xerox in college. In that system, every action was either available as a static button if it didn't apply to a specific on-screen object, or in a contextual menu if it did apply to a specific object. There was no static menu bar, no pulldown menus, and no confusion.
If Apple really wanted to make life easy for beginners, they would make all applications usable with a single type of click. Right now, a Mac may come with only one button, but a user is expected to learn several different ways to click with it. At a minimum there is single click, double click, click & drag, shift click, and command click. And beyond that there is control click, click & hold, and even triple click. You may have succeeded in keeping the mouse simple, but you haven't actually made anything easier, you've just moved the complexity somewhere else.
Instead of inventing a myriad of ways to click a single mouse button, how about standardizing on 3 simple mouse actions: single click to select and/or drag, double click to activate, and right click for a contextual menu. Put any possible actions you can perform on an object (except for select, move, and activate) in the menu instead of inventing different application specific ways to click on an object to invoke the other actions.
Thanks for the answer.
> At a minimum there is single click, double click, click & drag, shift click, and command click
Well, double click was supposed to be select + execute the default action on the selection. This mean that it is not needed to properly execute an application [of course, this is not true anymore. double-clicking is often required, and quite difficult to learn]. Shift-click and command click are supposed to be used to extend/modify a selection, which is not needed for novices.
Click/move is drag and drop. This one seems important to me.
In a quest for the ultimate GUI, I would like more predictability. What I truly hate in recent trend is that buttons don't look like buttons anymore, and that you have to move the mouse all over the screen, hoping to find is something can be activated. Then you can do it again with the right-button to find any hidden contextual menu, then you can try to drag things, and drop them randomly.
Every part of the screen that act like a button should have a certain look. Every "object" should have a certain look (an "object" beeing something that can be selected/moved/or that have a contextual menu attached). When clicking on a draggable object, all the drop sites should be lightly "hilited". You get the point.
> single click to select and/or drag, double click to activate, and right click for a contextual menu
The real question here is: should contextual menu be _required_ to use the app (ie: some action are _only_ present in contextual menus), or should contextual menus be _optional_ (ie: only _shortcuts_ for a select + menu operation).
Cheers,
--fred
decent PC is a perfectly good assesment whearas with Machintoy systems I can think of only bad things.
The death of one man is a tragedy; the death of a million is a statistic --Joseph Stalin
Good reason too (that I was aware of). Too bad XP-style logins and Ctrl+Alt+Del apparently don't mix, which sorta indicates that NT's SAK is going away.
I was referring more to the support issue because the option is in a non-obvious location. That could have been fixed easily with a "Password Control Panel" that did nothing other than tell users to press Ctrl+Alt+Delete.
--IH
Also, in Windows I can't Cut 'n' Paste using Ctrl-C and Ctrl-P when using I'm Telnetted into another (Unix) box - Ctrl-C obviously has a totally different context in this instance.
This is very inconsistent. Now, when I'm using the (oh-so-nice) Terminal program in Mac OS X I retain all my cut-copy-paste functionalty because of the Mac's use of an extra meta key for keyboard shortcuts - the Command key. The Control key retains it's expected Unix function.
A minor point with contextual menus too - these can be set to appear after a click-hold with a one-button mouse.
real men use the keyboard. Why use a mouse it's far slower than the keyboard
It's on University Avenue across from Borders, if anybody cares.
I'm now losing sleep. I have an old iBook - the original Tangerine "clamshell". I am awaiting the arrival of a 128MB RAM upgrade and the OS X 10.1 CD. Do I cancel the CD and live with 9.2? Naive me - I assumed all the press I was reading about OS X being faster, more stable, BSD-based, easier to code for, etc. was all true even on "older" machines. Apple web site said so - call me gullible. Has anyone out there tried running OS X on 128 MB iBook G3 300? Am I hosed? Thanks.