Ok... The short version of this is that if 100 tomahawk-D missles are deployed, about 2125 invidiual targets could be hit. (100 TLAM -D missles x 25 weapons packages (is max#, but hey..)x 0.85, which is the avg. success rate for the tomahawk during the gulf war
I know this figure from somewhere, but I can't find it. during the first "blitz" of the war, something like 1000 missles were in the air, headed toward Iraq. All were on their way to destroy air defence / communications facilities.
100 of these were tomahawks launched from US surface ships and submarines. The rest were launched by a crapload of aircraft, including the often ignored Apache helicopter
You'll find this link interesting I hope
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:WtaEEKhsSBk :w ww.history.navy.mil/wars/dstorm/ds5.htm+desert+sto rm+start&hl=en
Some high points of the article.
Two types of Tomahawk were used during DESERT STORM; . . . The TLAM-C accurately delivers a single 1,000 pound warhead. TLAM-D can dispense up to 166 bomblets in 24 packages. The submunitions can be armor-piercing, fragmentation or incendiary.
Each of the 24 packages can be independently targeted (within fuel constraints), and the tomahawk itself can be guided to hit a target.
288 tomahawks were fired during operation desert storm, obviously, not all had more than one mission objective, but if
If the initial barrage of one hundred tomahawks had each been assigned 24 targets, well 25 if you count the missile itself, a total of 2500 small, invididual targets could be hit.
Even in a high density city such as LA, 2500 cell sites is a majority. Besides, destruction of half that amount would be a major blow. FWI, 85% of Tomahawk missles fired, hit their targets...
More stuff... same site.
More than 1,000 Navy and Marine Corps aircraft joined the U.S. Air Force, Army and coalition partners to knock out the Iraqi military machine. The air campaign was conducted in four phases. Phase I was to gain air superiority by destroying Iraq's strategic capabilities. That phase was accomplished within the first seven days. Phase II required the suppression of air defenses in the Kuwaiti Theater of Operations. During Phase III, the coalition airmen continued to service Phase I and II targets as needed, but also shifted emphasis to the field army in Kuwait. Finally, Phase IV entailed air support of ground operations.
At around 0300 (Persian Gulf time) 17 January, along with a blitz by more than 100 TLAMs, wave after wave of coalition aircraft --including those flown by Navy and Marine pilots -- began hammering strategic targets inside both Iraq and Kuwait, signaling the start of offensive combat operations. Throughout the war, air strikes were conducted from six aircraft carriers operating in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. USS America (CV 66) and USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) departed Norfolk 28 December 1990, and arrived just in time for the beginning of DESERT STORM. They joined USS Midway (CV 41), USS Saratoga (CV 60), USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67) and USS Ranger (CV 61) who were already on station.
Oh, and why airpower kicks ass:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/0498storm.html
Before the ground battle began, the USAFled air campaign against Iraqi ground forces destroyed 1,688 battle tanks (39 percent of total), 929 armored personnel carriers (32 percent), and 1,452 artillery tubes (47 percent).
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Not necessairly. Even though the initial attack comes "as a suprise" (like the iraqui's didn't know we were coming...), stealth still affords an arial attack quite an advantage. The ability to reach deep within enemy teritory, at vital centers, is a big advantage.
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So we are supposed to tell our infra-red satelites to look for something that is less than a meter square, something that isn't much hotter than the air around it, and moves a 600+ mph.
Perhaps, but I imagine that it would be very difficult (expensive). Besides, not too many countries have satelites, and infrared isn't that great for long distances (which is why radar is used instead of infrared for detection of things at "long" distances.
Also anti-satelite missles launched by f-15's would have an "adverse" effect on the satelites.
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it wouldn't matter. these cell sites are centrally controlled somewhere, and not designed for fault tolerance. Take out the local CO, which is SOP anyways.
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You realize, that if there is a full-scale (i.e. ww3) war between the USA and China, it will go nuclear pretty fucking fast. I think Bush would have the balls to do that, I don't think Gore (or Clinton, for that matter) would. Whatever, lets forget politics for the time being.
Even though people claim that modern smart bombs, etc, will replace the role of atomic weapons, those claims are greatly overestimated - we will always have ICBM's, to go where no bomber will.
Given the lack of advances (well, when you have a nuke at the head, a rough area (100 meters/feet, which isn't enough to destroy most fortified buildings) is good enough, thus there is no incentive to design a much better one) in the guidance packages of the ICBM's, it is _very_ unlikely that they would be used in a non-nuclear way.
Besides, a rough area is good enough for something that has travelled 30,000 miles. (I'm not sure how high they actually travel, but I'm assuming 10k up, 10k down, some horizontal travel, whatever, if someone can correct me...)
We always have the "deep throat" bombs that we used in Iraq and in some "peacekeeping" missions in Europe, every single one of those situations were a turkey shoot. We lost how many people in the air attacks in central europe? Compared to the losses of life in some training excercises . . .
Also given the ease in which they are deployed, i.e. place nobody on your side in danger - especially considering that China's nuclear response would be limited at best - and if Bush pushes his missle plan into effect . . . you have a fun way to win a "war". China wouldn't dare cross the Pacific with shitloads of infantry either. E4, you sunk my troop transport (as opposed to battleship).
So either bomb some shit - in which case it's not really a war, but a conflict OR
Go nuclear, or send 18 year old kids to be cannon fodder on the Chinese mainland - which would also be doubtful because, quite frankly, there are a whole fuckload more of them than us, and it wouldn't be a "good idea".
As for biological weapons - they are, to some extent, greately over dramticized, and the means of creating them are also touted as something "hard".
Yes, we can make anthrax and do all this wonderful instantly lethal combinations, but even a hundred liters of bronchitis (made with 1000 chicken eggs, a syringe and one sick dude), deployed from a scud / whatever are enough to either incapacitate an division - or seriously hinder their ability to fight. You make a soldier sick, his/her performance will suffer. Shit, I've cultured bacteria in bio class, I have the brain-power to do so.
Couple bronchitis with the common cold, the flu, and a few other diseases, you create a wonderful "non-lethal" way of making the enemy feel like shit, and turn them into easy targets for your infantry / tanks / whatever, for a week or two. Moreover it creates a logistical nightmare - extra water has to be rationed out, medication, even contact with infected units would be avoided if possible.
Ironically, if non-lethal forms of bio-war are used, it might actually even out the numbers between China and the USA.
Either way, I wouldn't exactly want to be a marine landing on mainland China during a war. Or occupied Taiwan.
Hell, we'd just get (pay) the indians and pakistanis to fight the Chinese, throw a shitload of tomahawks and arial bombs, short range balistic missiles, do a lot of shit from sea and air.
As for nuclear weapons, well, how do we put this gently, several (dozen) have gone missing from Russian stores, and nobody is sure exactly where fuck they are.
Now. If Iraq tested a nuke (which is what they did if they had a nuclear program, to make sure they work), then the whole world would know about it, i.e. seismic detectors detect this sort of stuff, and people constantly "listen". Now, it would be more beneficial for them to secretly have a russian nuke ready to fire, and equally benefical if they "left hints" that they had one - in which case, the american generals would have to worry about massing their troops, not to mention the logistics pain in the ass of hauling radiation suits, etc... for every soldier, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.
Hell, even detonating a nuke where the prevailing winds go toward american soldiers would have a great effect.
Ok, if someone replies, most likely they will say something about the rules of war, which, especially if a "non-lethal alternative" was proposed to Congress / the President, would kind of be tossed away. Non-lethal is an awesome buzzword right now...
Oh well...
Does anyone do a newsgroup on this? Any info?
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they also used a shitload of apaches flying low, as well as pretty much everything they had. Supposedly, during the first few minutes, there were thousands of anti-radar station missles in the air. Kind of lik a blitzkreig.
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yeah, but my point was not that it is a better solution, but one that is a shitload cheaper. there a 900$ difference between the genica and the ipaq. I can live with flipping a few cd's every 20 hours or so, in exchange for saving enough $ to buy a nice laptop.
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I guess, but how much will it cost to add that functionality - he spent $986 for this - for that price, you can buy a lot of stuff, needless to say a mp3 player to mount in your car / made for it.
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If it was easy to compress and move a movie over the net I am sure we would see a rise in movie sharing.
It is it's called DIvX. Takes about 2x running length to rip and compress. You can make the movie pretty much any size, i.e. a DVD ripped to 350mb will be of fairly decent quality (i.e. output to TV, and you can't tell the difference). 350mb takes what? 3 hours to transfer over the net over your capped DSL/Cable connection?
As for a rise - check out some of the sites on hotline under the no2banners.dhs.org tracker, trust me, there's a rise.
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Umm...
United States did firebomb civilians, imprision the japs in concentration camp style camps and all that other good shit.
Inexcusable things happened on both sides, and yes, a lot of thing were way over the top - it seems that the japanese liked more "in person" action than the americans, who liked staying distant - i.e. firebombs, nukes.
Lives lost are lives lost - murder of civilians at nanking was just as bad as murdering japanese civilians with fire bombs in tokyo.
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Rules?
Rules, like, say "not firebomb civilians"?
Like Dresden and Tokyo in WW2? Or flechettes (sp?)in Vietnam?
Sorry to wake you up, but rules of war aren't worth much during one.
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I thought they gave up this idealistic bullshit when people had vcrs. At least with region-incorrect dvd's the movie companies get some $, as opposed to bootlegs.
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OR go on the net and download shitloads of divx rips, then distribute them.
It's unfortunate that most americans would shudder at the thought of even looking at something that was made by an amateur - or *gasp* is subtitled!
fuck 'em, more room for us.
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and why not; the electric/water companies will push for washing machines that run at night so they don't put as much stress on the electricity / water system.
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Slashdot Mirror
I know this figure from somewhere, but I can't find it. during the first "blitz" of the war, something like 1000 missles were in the air, headed toward Iraq. All were on their way to destroy air defence / communications facilities.
100 of these were tomahawks launched from US surface ships and submarines. The rest were launched by a crapload of aircraft, including the often ignored Apache helicopter
You'll find this link interesting I hope
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:WtaEEKhsSB
Some high points of the article.
Two types of Tomahawk were used during DESERT STORM; . . . The TLAM-C accurately delivers a single 1,000 pound warhead. TLAM-D can dispense up to 166 bomblets in 24 packages. The submunitions can be armor-piercing, fragmentation or incendiary.
Each of the 24 packages can be independently targeted (within fuel constraints), and the tomahawk itself can be guided to hit a target.
288 tomahawks were fired during operation desert storm, obviously, not all had more than one mission objective, but if
If the initial barrage of one hundred tomahawks had each been assigned 24 targets, well 25 if you count the missile itself, a total of 2500 small, invididual targets could be hit.
Even in a high density city such as LA, 2500 cell sites is a majority. Besides, destruction of half that amount would be a major blow. FWI, 85% of Tomahawk missles fired, hit their targets...
More stuff... same site.
More than 1,000 Navy and Marine Corps aircraft joined the U.S. Air Force, Army and coalition partners to knock out the Iraqi military machine. The air campaign was conducted in four phases. Phase I was to gain air superiority by destroying Iraq's strategic capabilities. That phase was accomplished within the first seven days. Phase II required the suppression of air defenses in the Kuwaiti Theater of Operations. During Phase III, the coalition airmen continued to service Phase I and II targets as needed, but also shifted emphasis to the field army in Kuwait. Finally, Phase IV entailed air support of ground operations.
At around 0300 (Persian Gulf time) 17 January, along with a blitz by more than 100 TLAMs, wave after wave of coalition aircraft --including those flown by Navy and Marine pilots -- began hammering strategic targets inside both Iraq and Kuwait, signaling the start of offensive combat operations. Throughout the war, air strikes were conducted from six aircraft carriers operating in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf. USS America (CV 66) and USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) departed Norfolk 28 December 1990, and arrived just in time for the beginning of DESERT STORM. They joined USS Midway (CV 41), USS Saratoga (CV 60), USS John F. Kennedy (CV 67) and USS Ranger (CV 61) who were already on station.
Oh, and why airpower kicks ass:
http://www.afa.org/magazine/0498storm.html
Before the ground battle began, the USAFled air campaign against Iraqi ground forces destroyed 1,688 battle tanks (39 percent of total), 929 armored personnel carriers (32 percent), and 1,452 artillery tubes (47 percent).
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Perhaps, but I imagine that it would be very difficult (expensive). Besides, not too many countries have satelites, and infrared isn't that great for long distances (which is why radar is used instead of infrared for detection of things at "long" distances.
Also anti-satelite missles launched by f-15's would have an "adverse" effect on the satelites.
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Even though people claim that modern smart bombs, etc, will replace the role of atomic weapons, those claims are greatly overestimated - we will always have ICBM's, to go where no bomber will.
Given the lack of advances (well, when you have a nuke at the head, a rough area (100 meters/feet, which isn't enough to destroy most fortified buildings) is good enough, thus there is no incentive to design a much better one) in the guidance packages of the ICBM's, it is _very_ unlikely that they would be used in a non-nuclear way.
Besides, a rough area is good enough for something that has travelled 30,000 miles. (I'm not sure how high they actually travel, but I'm assuming 10k up, 10k down, some horizontal travel, whatever, if someone can correct me...)
We always have the "deep throat" bombs that we used in Iraq and in some "peacekeeping" missions in Europe, every single one of those situations were a turkey shoot. We lost how many people in the air attacks in central europe? Compared to the losses of life in some training excercises . . .
Also given the ease in which they are deployed, i.e. place nobody on your side in danger - especially considering that China's nuclear response would be limited at best - and if Bush pushes his missle plan into effect . . . you have a fun way to win a "war". China wouldn't dare cross the Pacific with shitloads of infantry either. E4, you sunk my troop transport (as opposed to battleship).
So either bomb some shit - in which case it's not really a war, but a conflict OR
Go nuclear, or send 18 year old kids to be cannon fodder on the Chinese mainland - which would also be doubtful because, quite frankly, there are a whole fuckload more of them than us, and it wouldn't be a "good idea".
As for biological weapons - they are, to some extent, greately over dramticized, and the means of creating them are also touted as something "hard".
Yes, we can make anthrax and do all this wonderful instantly lethal combinations, but even a hundred liters of bronchitis (made with 1000 chicken eggs, a syringe and one sick dude), deployed from a scud / whatever are enough to either incapacitate an division - or seriously hinder their ability to fight. You make a soldier sick, his/her performance will suffer. Shit, I've cultured bacteria in bio class, I have the brain-power to do so.
Couple bronchitis with the common cold, the flu, and a few other diseases, you create a wonderful "non-lethal" way of making the enemy feel like shit, and turn them into easy targets for your infantry / tanks / whatever, for a week or two. Moreover it creates a logistical nightmare - extra water has to be rationed out, medication, even contact with infected units would be avoided if possible.
Ironically, if non-lethal forms of bio-war are used, it might actually even out the numbers between China and the USA.
Either way, I wouldn't exactly want to be a marine landing on mainland China during a war. Or occupied Taiwan.
Hell, we'd just get (pay) the indians and pakistanis to fight the Chinese, throw a shitload of tomahawks and arial bombs, short range balistic missiles, do a lot of shit from sea and air.
As for nuclear weapons, well, how do we put this gently, several (dozen) have gone missing from Russian stores, and nobody is sure exactly where fuck they are.
Now. If Iraq tested a nuke (which is what they did if they had a nuclear program, to make sure they work), then the whole world would know about it, i.e. seismic detectors detect this sort of stuff, and people constantly "listen". Now, it would be more beneficial for them to secretly have a russian nuke ready to fire, and equally benefical if they "left hints" that they had one - in which case, the american generals would have to worry about massing their troops, not to mention the logistics pain in the ass of hauling radiation suits, etc... for every soldier, as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.
Hell, even detonating a nuke where the prevailing winds go toward american soldiers would have a great effect.
Ok, if someone replies, most likely they will say something about the rules of war, which, especially if a "non-lethal alternative" was proposed to Congress / the President, would kind of be tossed away. Non-lethal is an awesome buzzword right now...
Oh well...
Does anyone do a newsgroup on this? Any info?
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If it was easy to compress and move a movie over the net I am sure we would see a rise in movie sharing.
It is it's called DIvX. Takes about 2x running length to rip and compress. You can make the movie pretty much any size, i.e. a DVD ripped to 350mb will be of fairly decent quality (i.e. output to TV, and you can't tell the difference). 350mb takes what? 3 hours to transfer over the net over your capped DSL/Cable connection?
As for a rise - check out some of the sites on hotline under the no2banners.dhs.org tracker, trust me, there's a rise.
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United States did firebomb civilians, imprision the japs in concentration camp style camps and all that other good shit.
Inexcusable things happened on both sides, and yes, a lot of thing were way over the top - it seems that the japanese liked more "in person" action than the americans, who liked staying distant - i.e. firebombs, nukes.
Lives lost are lives lost - murder of civilians at nanking was just as bad as murdering japanese civilians with fire bombs in tokyo.
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If knowledge is power, and power is sexy, then why am I still single??
Perhaps your vivid descriptions of your daily routine might have something to do with it.
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Hippocrites, all of them
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Rules, like, say "not firebomb civilians"?
Like Dresden and Tokyo in WW2? Or flechettes (sp?)in Vietnam?
Sorry to wake you up, but rules of war aren't worth much during one.
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Yeah, but that was a troll.
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It's unfortunate that most americans would shudder at the thought of even looking at something that was made by an amateur - or *gasp* is subtitled!
fuck 'em, more room for us.
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