Nope, sorry apparently there's only one view and that's the view taken by GPL advocates, question that - you know like suggest that some people might view things differently and that's why they choose say the BSD license - and you get moderated down.
He considers them 'exploiters' because they exploit him.
who exploits him? what are they exploiting? and if he is using the GPL they can't 'exploit' (in the context of his world view) him because such a thing is prevented by the license. if he considers such a thing to be 'exploitation' that's his own perspective (clearly not shared by everyone) and there is a license to prevent such a thing.
Worldview is irrelevant.
No, in fact his whole argument is based on his world view, which is:
people who would take my work and disregard my goals while distributing it
That's an interesting way of saying "people who would take my work and disregard my goals while distributing it".
No, it's quite clear, when i distribute code under a permissive license that is purely alturistic, do what you will, you don't have to conform to my world view if you don't want to, you're not an 'exploiter'. You only consider them 'exploiters' because they don't have the same world view as you do.
BSD freedoms ARE lossy. There is BSD code in use by Microsoft and Apple that has been extended, closed and made unavailable to the community.
Wrong again, that BSD code is not closed or unavailable.
That sort of makes BSD code long-term unsustainable.
Yes clearly Apache, Webkit, the BSD kernel, etc... aren't sustainable.
I mean people who would violate the spirit and intent of the shared software that I and others have developed
So it clearly is just people who have a different world view to yours. It's not black and white, it's not just open vs closed, you might like to believe that it's one or the other but the simple fact is that it is not. Look at Apple for a clear example, they may have a lot of closed proprietary technology but they also contribute a lot back to open source and not because they have to.
by closing it and making it unavailable.
Wrong, the ability to close it and make it unavailable is absolutely not a characteristic of permissive OSS licenses, that's just disingenuous fear-mongering, don't lower yourself to such obviously baseless arguments.
If it were actually a problem with the OS then it would happen to everyone.
Oh gees...you're not serious are you? Look at the update changelogs and you'll see entries for improving WiFi connectivity, now what are these a modification to? The Operating System...but hang on, not everyone had problems with WiFi connectivity so why, if it is as you say, would they put out a fix for the operating system? That's a bit strange isn't it.
No, it won't. That's not a problem with the OS, I can assure you 110%.
Apple disagrees with you. I had WiFi connectivity problems on one of my MacBooks but it was fixed after 10.7.1, in fact you can see in the about pages for the updates that WiFi connectivity was most definitely an OS issue:
Macs are ten times easier to set up wireless than Windows.
My Mac has Windows and OSX installed on it, they don't seem any different in terms of ease of connection to wireless networks...do you care to explain what you mean?
So i'm sorry Win 8 fanbois, Win 8 isn't just bad with a keyboard and mouse, although it sucks the big wet titty on those, no Windows 8 is just a bad design PERIOD. Its not intuitive, its not discoverable, it doesn't follow either desktop or cellphone UI conventions, doesn't give the user jack shit in the way of help or guidance which is shocking as hell as MSFT ALWAYS has little tooltips and guides to help new users, in a word its a sloppily thrown together mess that simply doesn't belong on the desktop or laptop and gives the user nothing that Win 7 doesn't give with a much better experience.
I think it's only bad on a desktop/laptop, i don't see any reason it would be objectively bad on a tablet and it's worth remembering it's not the final version, so there's no how-to intro or tooltips or helpers built into it yet. This is just like the transition from Windows 3.x to Windows 95, all the same complaints, but the world's changed since then too, if you want simple, easy-to-use basic computing then many people get a tablet (and add a keyboard for word processing/long emails if necessary), naturally i understand you will fight that to the bitter end given that your business has a reliance on PCs so i don't blame you for that.
The tablet market barely existed a little over 2 years ago and now it is doing phenomenally well, desktop/laptops won't die, i don't even think they'll fall into a niche market, they will likely be the workhorse but not the primary computing device. There is clear logic to Microsoft's strategy based on what i assume is their view of the future of computing, they seem to see it as a tablet-first world (right or wrong), so if you've had experience with a Windows tablet then the knowledge translates directly to the desktop for those times when you might need to use one, they don't want the PC to become the device no one will use because it is unfamiliar with their normal computing environment (which they seem to see as being the tablet) but they've already proven you can't shoehorn the traditional desktop OS onto a tablet and already i would say most smartphone owners do more of their personal computing on their smartphones than they do on their desktops/laptops.
Please bear in mind this is just why i think they are taking this path, i'm not about to abandon my macbook air as my primary computing device in favor of a tablet or dump my gaming desktop and just use my xbox or ps3 but i certainly do a lot on my iphone that i used to do on those devices. Also FWIW i would prefer a 'Launchpad' style optional approach to the Start Screen than the mandatory way;)
Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.
To be specific, the 'Start Screen' on a desktop just doesn't make sense. Through using the RC it is, IMO, a far better OS than 7, it certainly seems more responsive and i like the replacement of that glitzy 'glass' effect. I actually really like Windows 8 on the desktop, the only problem is that damn start screen, especially how silly it is on multiple monitors...if they had made the start screen and Metro apps more of an optional thing on the desktop (like Launchpad on OSX) then it would be great.
The problem is no-one really makes high-spec phones below a 4" screen size any more. (Except Apple, but the iPhone 5 is rumoured to be bigger). if you want a high-end phone with a 3" screen...you're screwed. You have no choice.
No one really makes a high-spec phone with a 4.65" touchscreen in a clamshell with a physical keyboard either, I'm sure there's a lot of products that aren't made but that's generally because there is no market for them - or the market is not large enough to be profitable to address.
I can strip OSX off of a computer and sell it. You could then install OSX yourself or go with Linux or BSD (or L4, whatever you like).
So? You can't do that here (or with any iOS for that matter) and no one cares. And why strip OSX off the computer anyway? Just leave it on there.
You just admitted that doing that to a Windows tablet would violate the DMCA (in other words, a CRIMINAL offense, not just a license violation).
Wrong, again you don't seem to know what the DMCA is otherwise you wouldn't continue to misunderstand comments relating to it. Stripping Windows off the system is no problem. Modifying the Windows software such that it boots without SecureBoot is a license violation, not a DMCA violation. You can do whatever you want to the device you purchase.
I'd like to see how popular Photoshop would be if you couldn't pirate it? Well it wouldn't...
Why not? It's only really home users that are going to pirate it (and that's only if they don't have a license from work that they can use at home), businesses pay and students & educational institutions get dramatically discounted licenses. What would people be using instead? GIMP?
So it's illegal as hell but that's OK because who wants to do that anyway?
It's simply a contravention of the license agreement, if you don't like the license agreement then don't use the software, very simple. This is not depriving you of any rights.
So what if doing that is exactly the topic at hand!
Well that should be pretty obvious, you can't do it, same as the way you can't sell PCs with OSX pre-installed, and same as you can't make modifications to the linux kernel and distribute it without the source changes. Your argument has now just boiled down to a complaint that you can't just do whatever you want.
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Nope, sorry apparently there's only one view and that's the view taken by GPL advocates, question that - you know like suggest that some people might view things differently and that's why they choose say the BSD license - and you get moderated down.
That's a world view?
Read the thread and you'll see he explicitly stated it's anyone who would violate the spirit and intent of the shared software that I and others have developed, by closing it and making it unavailable. The simple face is not everyone has that same 'spirit and intent', which is why there's both permissive and restrictive licenses to satisfy both views, some people have too much of a totalitarian perspective to be able to accept that and label anyone who doesn't have the same view as things like 'exploiters'.
I'll be charitable and assume english isn't your primary language.
I'll be charitable and assume you didn't read the whole thread, which would explain your inability to address the questions i posed.
He considers them 'exploiters' because they exploit him.
who exploits him? what are they exploiting? and if he is using the GPL they can't 'exploit' (in the context of his world view) him because such a thing is prevented by the license. if he considers such a thing to be 'exploitation' that's his own perspective (clearly not shared by everyone) and there is a license to prevent such a thing.
Worldview is irrelevant.
No, in fact his whole argument is based on his world view, which is: people who would take my work and disregard my goals while distributing it
That's an interesting way of saying "people who would take my work and disregard my goals while distributing it".
No, it's quite clear, when i distribute code under a permissive license that is purely alturistic, do what you will, you don't have to conform to my world view if you don't want to, you're not an 'exploiter'. You only consider them 'exploiters' because they don't have the same world view as you do.
BSD freedoms ARE lossy. There is BSD code in use by Microsoft and Apple that has been extended, closed and made unavailable to the community.
Wrong again, that BSD code is not closed or unavailable.
That sort of makes BSD code long-term unsustainable.
Yes clearly Apache, Webkit, the BSD kernel, etc... aren't sustainable.
I mean people who would violate the spirit and intent of the shared software that I and others have developed
So it clearly is just people who have a different world view to yours. It's not black and white, it's not just open vs closed, you might like to believe that it's one or the other but the simple fact is that it is not. Look at Apple for a clear example, they may have a lot of closed proprietary technology but they also contribute a lot back to open source and not because they have to.
by closing it and making it unavailable.
Wrong, the ability to close it and make it unavailable is absolutely not a characteristic of permissive OSS licenses, that's just disingenuous fear-mongering, don't lower yourself to such obviously baseless arguments.
Ok, so BSD protects software authors from lawyers while GPL protects software users from exploiters?
By 'exploiters' you just mean people who don't share your world view.
Yea, you are right. I was in a hurry so do I still have to turn in my geek card?
Nah, perhaps you were the victim of subliminal lucassing.
Except there is no evidence that developers are "leaving in drones"
If i were leaving i don't think a drone would be my preferred conveyance.
alter, alter! not 'change'...on the other hand maybe George Lucas changed that line in Empire Strikes Back 're-imagined' special edition 2.
If it were actually a problem with the OS then it would happen to everyone.
Oh gees...you're not serious are you? Look at the update changelogs and you'll see entries for improving WiFi connectivity, now what are these a modification to? The Operating System...but hang on, not everyone had problems with WiFi connectivity so why, if it is as you say, would they put out a fix for the operating system? That's a bit strange isn't it.
No, it won't. That's not a problem with the OS, I can assure you 110%.
Apple disagrees with you. I had WiFi connectivity problems on one of my MacBooks but it was fixed after 10.7.1, in fact you can see in the about pages for the updates that WiFi connectivity was most definitely an OS issue:
Improve the reliability of Wi-Fi connections. OS X Lion Update 10.7.1
And later there was another OS update addressing WiFi connectivity issues:
Resolve a Wi-Fi connection issue when waking from sleep. OS X Lion Update 10.7.3
Macs are ten times easier to set up wireless than Windows.
My Mac has Windows and OSX installed on it, they don't seem any different in terms of ease of connection to wireless networks...do you care to explain what you mean?
Fair enough, agreed.
So i'm sorry Win 8 fanbois, Win 8 isn't just bad with a keyboard and mouse, although it sucks the big wet titty on those, no Windows 8 is just a bad design PERIOD. Its not intuitive, its not discoverable, it doesn't follow either desktop or cellphone UI conventions, doesn't give the user jack shit in the way of help or guidance which is shocking as hell as MSFT ALWAYS has little tooltips and guides to help new users, in a word its a sloppily thrown together mess that simply doesn't belong on the desktop or laptop and gives the user nothing that Win 7 doesn't give with a much better experience.
I think it's only bad on a desktop/laptop, i don't see any reason it would be objectively bad on a tablet and it's worth remembering it's not the final version, so there's no how-to intro or tooltips or helpers built into it yet. This is just like the transition from Windows 3.x to Windows 95, all the same complaints, but the world's changed since then too, if you want simple, easy-to-use basic computing then many people get a tablet (and add a keyboard for word processing/long emails if necessary), naturally i understand you will fight that to the bitter end given that your business has a reliance on PCs so i don't blame you for that.
The tablet market barely existed a little over 2 years ago and now it is doing phenomenally well, desktop/laptops won't die, i don't even think they'll fall into a niche market, they will likely be the workhorse but not the primary computing device. There is clear logic to Microsoft's strategy based on what i assume is their view of the future of computing, they seem to see it as a tablet-first world (right or wrong), so if you've had experience with a Windows tablet then the knowledge translates directly to the desktop for those times when you might need to use one, they don't want the PC to become the device no one will use because it is unfamiliar with their normal computing environment (which they seem to see as being the tablet) but they've already proven you can't shoehorn the traditional desktop OS onto a tablet and already i would say most smartphone owners do more of their personal computing on their smartphones than they do on their desktops/laptops.
Please bear in mind this is just why i think they are taking this path, i'm not about to abandon my macbook air as my primary computing device in favor of a tablet or dump my gaming desktop and just use my xbox or ps3 but i certainly do a lot on my iphone that i used to do on those devices. Also FWIW i would prefer a 'Launchpad' style optional approach to the Start Screen than the mandatory way ;)
Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.
To be specific, the 'Start Screen' on a desktop just doesn't make sense. Through using the RC it is, IMO, a far better OS than 7, it certainly seems more responsive and i like the replacement of that glitzy 'glass' effect. I actually really like Windows 8 on the desktop, the only problem is that damn start screen, especially how silly it is on multiple monitors...if they had made the start screen and Metro apps more of an optional thing on the desktop (like Launchpad on OSX) then it would be great.
yep well done, that pretty much sums up your argument.
The problem is no-one really makes high-spec phones below a 4" screen size any more. (Except Apple, but the iPhone 5 is rumoured to be bigger). if you want a high-end phone with a 3" screen...you're screwed. You have no choice.
No one really makes a high-spec phone with a 4.65" touchscreen in a clamshell with a physical keyboard either, I'm sure there's a lot of products that aren't made but that's generally because there is no market for them - or the market is not large enough to be profitable to address.
I can strip OSX off of a computer and sell it. You could then install OSX yourself or go with Linux or BSD (or L4, whatever you like).
So? You can't do that here (or with any iOS for that matter) and no one cares. And why strip OSX off the computer anyway? Just leave it on there.
You just admitted that doing that to a Windows tablet would violate the DMCA (in other words, a CRIMINAL offense, not just a license violation).
Wrong, again you don't seem to know what the DMCA is otherwise you wouldn't continue to misunderstand comments relating to it. Stripping Windows off the system is no problem. Modifying the Windows software such that it boots without SecureBoot is a license violation, not a DMCA violation. You can do whatever you want to the device you purchase.
I'd like to see how popular Photoshop would be if you couldn't pirate it? Well it wouldn't...
Why not? It's only really home users that are going to pirate it (and that's only if they don't have a license from work that they can use at home), businesses pay and students & educational institutions get dramatically discounted licenses. What would people be using instead? GIMP?
The article mentions the piracy rate for iOS, the rate is orders of magnitude smaller.
Where? I didn't see that in the article anywhere.
So it's illegal as hell but that's OK because who wants to do that anyway?
It's simply a contravention of the license agreement, if you don't like the license agreement then don't use the software, very simple. This is not depriving you of any rights.
So what if doing that is exactly the topic at hand!
Well that should be pretty obvious, you can't do it, same as the way you can't sell PCs with OSX pre-installed, and same as you can't make modifications to the linux kernel and distribute it without the source changes. Your argument has now just boiled down to a complaint that you can't just do whatever you want.
Windows Phone has TouchDevelop from MS Research, not sure how comprehensive it is but it does give you on-device scripting of functionality.
But still, SRSLY? You'd think Apple could get font scaling correct, especially since they've been selling big desktop displays for years.
That still annoys me about OSX, you can't set the system font size.
How many times did your C64 get a virus and drain your bank account?
How many times has that happened to you on other platforms?
Then your computer is a piece of junk. Go and buy one built in the 21st century.
Yes even though the hardware is clearly capable you should buy new hardware to compensate for software inefficiencies!