There certainly are a lot of people that don't understand that these days not everyone buys Apple products in an effort to satisfy a superiority complex (in fact i'd say most of apple's customers these days don't given the ubiquity of iDevices).
For the purposes of this argument, Apple could in fact get in trouble if they allowed the sale knowing it would violate law. I'm not certain if they would, but the precident is there in other cases. Cases such as the sale of liquor or tobacco to someone after knowing they intend to provide it to a minor.
If it can be proven that you know, then yes, but in this case it isn't. But my point is this is in no way analogous to returning something to best buy.
If you walk into best buy and say "I'm gonna rip these people off with this bogus return" in Farsi, and the guy behind the counter hears that, you'll bet he will deny the return! That's basically what happened here...
That's nothing like what happened here, even if she did indeed say what you claim she said (but I can't find anything to back that) then that has no repercussions for Apple, unlike your attempt at an analogy would have on Best Buy.
If the incentive is there - as in the game is good enough - people aren't going to have an aversion to moving a PC to that room to play. It's about providing the incentive through a good experience, if the game sucks or it's just a 5minute affair then naturally people aren't going to bother.
Laptops not bought specifically for gaming are more likely to have an underpowered Intel "Graphics My Ass" IGP. But I'll admit that on an indie asset budget, a GMA is likely enough.
Well that's my thought, i know i could even play Diablo 3 on my mac, it works perfectly fine on medium detail with low shadows, but it looks so much nicer on my SLi gaming system. Integrated graphics are plenty for most titles these days, even AAA can usually be playable.
I think people without a gaming PC in the loungeroom are likely to just buy the console version of a multiplatform major-label game instead of hauling in a desktop PC.
Sure, if they have that console and the game is available on that console, but there are a lot of great PC exclusives that provide that incentive.
In short, console manufacturers aren't going to cater to an unprofitable niche and the majority of end-users aren't going to go to any significant effort without incentive. It's about making your product good enough that people really want to play it.
But then the Zune was an example of getting the hardware and software right but failing monumentally in marketing and timing (as well as lack of differentiation from competitors). All the pieces are there, it's just a matter of getting all the successful pieces into one product.
$1 billion/yr bribe towards Nokia use Windows Phone exclusively.
If i'm not mistaken Nokia don't use Windows Phone exclusively, they don't even use it exclusively on their smartphone range, even their new ones like the PureView.
It's just that people like CronoCloud keep telling me that no game developed by a family business will ever be "good enough" to get enough people to buy a gaming PC for the room with the TV.
Well you don't necessarily need to buy a gaming PC specifically for the loungeroom, you can just plug in your PC or laptop, which if the game is good enough (and it doesn't need to be an indie game, can be any PC game) people will do.
Probably, but really if people find themselves plugging their gaming PC into their TV often enough that might just entice them to getting a dedicated loungeroom system. There's always going to be a chicken and egg problem to some degree but the fact is most houses have a PC, now game makers just need to target that system with a quality product.
Should people expect to have to buy two devices, one for only indie games and one for only major label games?
You might even need more than that depending on what you want, if you want Xbox, Playstation and Wii exclusives you need all 3 of those, if you want PC games as well then you'll need one of them, if you want iOS, Android and Windows Phone exclusives you'll need another 3 devices there.
If so, why is this fair, and if not, how should they be run on the same device?
Supply and demand, people obviously don't want such a thing, it's a niche market. You really think the entire gaming market should be monopolized by one device? And if not then you end up with multiple devices with different configurations, like PCs, which leads to instability and incompatibility. Diablo 3 was the first PC game i've played in ages and although i enjoyed it, it was an unwelcome return to tweaking settings, video driver crashes and updating drivers, no-one wants to faff around with that shit.
If the game is popular enough people will plug their PCs into their TVs. I have a mac mini connected to my TV but i sure as hell wasn't going to play Diablo 3 on that so i plugged my gaming PC into the TV. There's no reason that if a game is good enough people will not go to a tiny amount of effort to experience it. Moreover i'm sure there's lots of anecdotal evidence about HTPCs but i haven't seen any real statistics.
...except it is no longer THEIR device once they sell it to ME.
Why did you buy something locked down then? Why didn't you buy something that was fit for purpose from the get-go? Companies can sell whatever they want, if you buy what they offer and then complain that what you bought - while exactly what they offered - isn't what you wanted then quite frankly you're an idiot.
This is the bit I don't understand. What makes ARM so inherrently different that it must be locked down? Why is MSFT pushing lockdown on ARM, with both software installation and UEFI restrictions? Why is it any different than x86/64?
Well they give you the choice of a walled-garden approach through ARM (which, given the success of iOS devices is extremely popular) and the usual free and open approach on traditional x86. It's not that they're inherently different but rather than lock down future versions of existing categories of devices they support they have taken the walled garden approach to the other category of devices that they previously didn't support.
Might do? You mean like mandate 3rd parties enforce UEFI Secure Boot to ensure nothing can modify the boot process? You knock out malware and alternative operating systems (arguably malware from Microsoft's perspective) in one blow.
On devices that don't yet exist, in fact if you want to run Linux why would you buy a tablet for Windows or an iPad? Wouldn't you buy one of the many Linux-capable tablets that already exists, unless of course you have some FUD that suggests that Microsoft can somehow stop OEMs from making Linux-capable tablets?
No, but you'll be pushed down the path of buying a multi-thousand dollar server of some sort.
I have. But there aren't a lot of PC games* in genres traditionally associated with consoles, and that's because not enough other people use a PC as a game console
You just moved the goalposts: I want a video game console on which I can run homemade video games (#40385947)
Say I want a video game console on which I can run homemade video games. Should I get a Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony console?
No, you shouldn't get any of them, because they aren't designed for that. Same as you don't buy a Wii to play Playstation games or an Android phone to run iOS apps.
My eyes have no problems seeing individual pixels on my iPad3.
Well, if i've got the math right then 1080p on a 7" screen is significantly higher than the iPad3. So what distance do you have between your eyes and the screen and what PPI do you want?
I read a lot of PDF data sheets, and retina quality display lets me view and read entire pages with pinching and zooming.
Retina display doesn't do anything for pinching and zooming, you can pinch and zoom on any kind of capacitive display, retina or not.
1080p not enough on a tablet with an edge-to-edge-to-edge display and no bezel, if the DPI is to match the ipad3.
Actually it will significantly exceed the iPad 3...so tell me what PPI do you need?
UEFI and a locked-down BIOS (yes, in violation of their own terms) will make this a Windows-only device. Just watch.
It likely won't have the 'Certified for Windows' sticker on it - since it has Windows branding on it already - and therefore will not need to abide by the terms laid out in the certification program. So no, it's not a violation of their own terms. And yes, i would expect their Microsoft Windows flagship device to be Windows-only, just as Apple's devices are iOS-only.
* 7 inch size, which fits nicely in my purse and eliminates the need to carry a separate tablet
* "retina" resolution, well beyond 1080p, Apple has shown this is needed
Why would you need something "well beyond" 1080p on a 7" tablet?
I would think the update process needs to be improved from a security perspective. My understanding is that it is solely tied to the device manufacturer, that if Google releases an update (of any kind) it's completely up to the OEM as to whether you get that? To me that sounds like a significant security concern, or am I incorrect on that? I know there is a large community around modding so there's always that route if your device is popular I suppose (and able to be boot loader unlocked).
So I guess the question is if updates are solely tied to the manufacturer then which one is best to go with? And if the community is a better option then which model(s) are best supported in the modding community?
Millions of unit sales suggest that this isn't as big a problem as you suggest.
Why is this the default response to any criticism? He said it's a 'shortcoming'. I mean why bother with a 'Retina Display', millions of unit sales suggest this isn't necessary.
Want a keyboard? Use bluetooth.
I agree with that, it's just easier.
Want to use a external storage? Use dropbox or any of the dozens of other online storage sites that allow you to access the same thing over wifi or 3g/4g data.
But i don't want to store this stuff on dropbox and if it's on a USB stick why use another system to upload it to dropbox and then have to download it on the iDevice just to get it there, that's an apologist solution.
Want to print? Print over the network using AirPrint.
Agree, very easy.
iPads back themselves up (either to iCloud, or local PC) as a routine part of their sync, and those backups can be both encrypted and copied elsewhere, since they're basically disk images.
That's a pain in the ass, i don't want to have to do an upload of my entire system to back it up only to have to download the whole thing again when i restore it, that's obviously inconvenient, it shouldn't require a PC just to back it up. The solution is obvious, use the same TimeMachine mechanism that Macs use.
Slashdot Mirror
Docked in this case means screen mirror to a 24" monitor on my desk via AppleTV and a bluetooth keyboard.
Excellent, that would be so much more practical in the classroom than a laptop!
We need to learn how to use them to teach with
Sounds like you're trying to jam a square peg in a round hole.
not force a desktop paradigm because its familiar.
It's not a desktop paradigm, it's a laptop paradigm...can you explain how a tablet is significantly better than a laptop for teaching?
and there is no valid excuse for any hardware manufacturer to withhold them.
They aren't withholding them, AFAIK the features are in the proprietary drivers AMD produced for Linux.
There certainly are a lot of people that don't understand that these days not everyone buys Apple products in an effort to satisfy a superiority complex (in fact i'd say most of apple's customers these days don't given the ubiquity of iDevices).
For the purposes of this argument, Apple could in fact get in trouble if they allowed the sale knowing it would violate law. I'm not certain if they would, but the precident is there in other cases. Cases such as the sale of liquor or tobacco to someone after knowing they intend to provide it to a minor.
If it can be proven that you know, then yes, but in this case it isn't. But my point is this is in no way analogous to returning something to best buy.
What's that got to do with returning something to Best Buy?
If you walk into best buy and say "I'm gonna rip these people off with this bogus return" in Farsi, and the guy behind the counter hears that, you'll bet he will deny the return! That's basically what happened here...
That's nothing like what happened here, even if she did indeed say what you claim she said (but I can't find anything to back that) then that has no repercussions for Apple, unlike your attempt at an analogy would have on Best Buy.
Not if it's in a different room.
If the incentive is there - as in the game is good enough - people aren't going to have an aversion to moving a PC to that room to play. It's about providing the incentive through a good experience, if the game sucks or it's just a 5minute affair then naturally people aren't going to bother.
Laptops not bought specifically for gaming are more likely to have an underpowered Intel "Graphics My Ass" IGP. But I'll admit that on an indie asset budget, a GMA is likely enough.
Well that's my thought, i know i could even play Diablo 3 on my mac, it works perfectly fine on medium detail with low shadows, but it looks so much nicer on my SLi gaming system. Integrated graphics are plenty for most titles these days, even AAA can usually be playable.
I think people without a gaming PC in the loungeroom are likely to just buy the console version of a multiplatform major-label game instead of hauling in a desktop PC.
Sure, if they have that console and the game is available on that console, but there are a lot of great PC exclusives that provide that incentive.
In short, console manufacturers aren't going to cater to an unprofitable niche and the majority of end-users aren't going to go to any significant effort without incentive. It's about making your product good enough that people really want to play it.
But then the Zune was an example of getting the hardware and software right but failing monumentally in marketing and timing (as well as lack of differentiation from competitors). All the pieces are there, it's just a matter of getting all the successful pieces into one product.
$1 billion/yr bribe towards Nokia use Windows Phone exclusively.
If i'm not mistaken Nokia don't use Windows Phone exclusively, they don't even use it exclusively on their smartphone range, even their new ones like the PureView.
It's just that people like CronoCloud keep telling me that no game developed by a family business will ever be "good enough" to get enough people to buy a gaming PC for the room with the TV.
Well you don't necessarily need to buy a gaming PC specifically for the loungeroom, you can just plug in your PC or laptop, which if the game is good enough (and it doesn't need to be an indie game, can be any PC game) people will do.
Two and a half years ago, FunkSoulBrother quoted me 166 Wii consoles for every HTPC, but that's probably among the >75% of statistics that are guesstimated on the spot.
Probably, but really if people find themselves plugging their gaming PC into their TV often enough that might just entice them to getting a dedicated loungeroom system. There's always going to be a chicken and egg problem to some degree but the fact is most houses have a PC, now game makers just need to target that system with a quality product.
I was going to suggest BAN ALL COMPUTERS! but you're probably right, RIAA will go after anything with 'mp3' or 'download' written on it.
Should people expect to have to buy two devices, one for only indie games and one for only major label games?
You might even need more than that depending on what you want, if you want Xbox, Playstation and Wii exclusives you need all 3 of those, if you want PC games as well then you'll need one of them, if you want iOS, Android and Windows Phone exclusives you'll need another 3 devices there.
If so, why is this fair, and if not, how should they be run on the same device?
Supply and demand, people obviously don't want such a thing, it's a niche market. You really think the entire gaming market should be monopolized by one device? And if not then you end up with multiple devices with different configurations, like PCs, which leads to instability and incompatibility. Diablo 3 was the first PC game i've played in ages and although i enjoyed it, it was an unwelcome return to tweaking settings, video driver crashes and updating drivers, no-one wants to faff around with that shit.
If the game is popular enough people will plug their PCs into their TVs. I have a mac mini connected to my TV but i sure as hell wasn't going to play Diablo 3 on that so i plugged my gaming PC into the TV. There's no reason that if a game is good enough people will not go to a tiny amount of effort to experience it. Moreover i'm sure there's lots of anecdotal evidence about HTPCs but i haven't seen any real statistics.
...except it is no longer THEIR device once they sell it to ME.
Why did you buy something locked down then? Why didn't you buy something that was fit for purpose from the get-go? Companies can sell whatever they want, if you buy what they offer and then complain that what you bought - while exactly what they offered - isn't what you wanted then quite frankly you're an idiot.
This is the bit I don't understand. What makes ARM so inherrently different that it must be locked down? Why is MSFT pushing lockdown on ARM, with both software installation and UEFI restrictions? Why is it any different than x86/64?
Well they give you the choice of a walled-garden approach through ARM (which, given the success of iOS devices is extremely popular) and the usual free and open approach on traditional x86. It's not that they're inherently different but rather than lock down future versions of existing categories of devices they support they have taken the walled garden approach to the other category of devices that they previously didn't support.
Might do? You mean like mandate 3rd parties enforce UEFI Secure Boot to ensure nothing can modify the boot process? You knock out malware and alternative operating systems (arguably malware from Microsoft's perspective) in one blow.
On devices that don't yet exist, in fact if you want to run Linux why would you buy a tablet for Windows or an iPad? Wouldn't you buy one of the many Linux-capable tablets that already exists, unless of course you have some FUD that suggests that Microsoft can somehow stop OEMs from making Linux-capable tablets?
No, but you'll be pushed down the path of buying a multi-thousand dollar server of some sort.
Why? What's wrong with Android?
I have. But there aren't a lot of PC games* in genres traditionally associated with consoles, and that's because not enough other people use a PC as a game console
You just moved the goalposts:
I want a video game console on which I can run homemade video games
(#40385947)
Say I want a video game console on which I can run homemade video games. Should I get a Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sony console?
No, you shouldn't get any of them, because they aren't designed for that. Same as you don't buy a Wii to play Playstation games or an Android phone to run iOS apps.
Not everyone is blind.
Thanks captain obvious.
My eyes have no problems seeing individual pixels on my iPad3.
Well, if i've got the math right then 1080p on a 7" screen is significantly higher than the iPad3. So what distance do you have between your eyes and the screen and what PPI do you want?
I read a lot of PDF data sheets, and retina quality display lets me view and read entire pages with pinching and zooming.
Retina display doesn't do anything for pinching and zooming, you can pinch and zoom on any kind of capacitive display, retina or not.
1080p not enough on a tablet with an edge-to-edge-to-edge display and no bezel, if the DPI is to match the ipad3.
Actually it will significantly exceed the iPad 3...so tell me what PPI do you need?
UEFI and a locked-down BIOS (yes, in violation of their own terms) will make this a Windows-only device. Just watch.
It likely won't have the 'Certified for Windows' sticker on it - since it has Windows branding on it already - and therefore will not need to abide by the terms laid out in the certification program. So no, it's not a violation of their own terms. And yes, i would expect their Microsoft Windows flagship device to be Windows-only, just as Apple's devices are iOS-only.
* 7 inch size, which fits nicely in my purse and eliminates the need to carry a separate tablet
* "retina" resolution, well beyond 1080p, Apple has shown this is needed
Why would you need something "well beyond" 1080p on a 7" tablet?
Oh come on, you know we can only trust leaks from anonymous sources close to google!
I would think the update process needs to be improved from a security perspective. My understanding is that it is solely tied to the device manufacturer, that if Google releases an update (of any kind) it's completely up to the OEM as to whether you get that? To me that sounds like a significant security concern, or am I incorrect on that?
I know there is a large community around modding so there's always that route if your device is popular I suppose (and able to be boot loader unlocked).
So I guess the question is if updates are solely tied to the manufacturer then which one is best to go with?
And if the community is a better option then which model(s) are best supported in the modding community?
Millions of unit sales suggest that this isn't as big a problem as you suggest.
Why is this the default response to any criticism? He said it's a 'shortcoming'. I mean why bother with a 'Retina Display', millions of unit sales suggest this isn't necessary.
Want a keyboard? Use bluetooth.
I agree with that, it's just easier.
Want to use a external storage? Use dropbox or any of the dozens of other online storage sites that allow you to access the same thing over wifi or 3g/4g data.
But i don't want to store this stuff on dropbox and if it's on a USB stick why use another system to upload it to dropbox and then have to download it on the iDevice just to get it there, that's an apologist solution.
Want to print? Print over the network using AirPrint.
Agree, very easy.
iPads back themselves up (either to iCloud, or local PC) as a routine part of their sync, and those backups can be both encrypted and copied elsewhere, since they're basically disk images.
That's a pain in the ass, i don't want to have to do an upload of my entire system to back it up only to have to download the whole thing again when i restore it, that's obviously inconvenient, it shouldn't require a PC just to back it up. The solution is obvious, use the same TimeMachine mechanism that Macs use.