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Will Microsoft Extend Surface Model And Manufacture Windows Phones?
Nerval's Lobster writes "A day after Microsoft unveiled Windows Phone 8, a company executive explained why the company never implemented native code in Windows Phone 7, declined to say whether Windows Phone 7.x would be upgraded beyond version 7.8, and said Microsoft has no plans to acquire an OEM to manufacture smartphones in-house. Of course, in theory that wouldn't stop Microsoft from building its own hardware in-house, similar to what Google did with the Nexus One. In any case, Microsoft's decision to construct its hardware and software in-house for the Surface tablet project has led to some chatter that it could do the same for smartphones."
HTC designed and manufactured it, Google just rebranded it.
Don't see why not. The dev tools are the same, the OS at least at the app layer is identical or nearly so. Assuming people like Surface I'm sure a Surface Phone version wouldn't be that hard to fire out.
isn't that what a Nokia branded Windows Phone is?
Say in a foreign country well-known for its mobile business which was teetering after having been dealt a big blow by the iPhone. It would need to somehow persuade them to ditch their current production runs and software stacks in favour of their own. It would have to install one of their own men at the top to oversee all this. Then it would have to ensure there is no chance of this business recovering by publicly announcing a new line of software which is totally incompatible with the line it promised to save them with, thus ensuring via the osborne effect none sell at all. Bankrupt, this mobile business could then be picked up for a song, and its patents would really come in handy too. The trouble is, everyone in the business would see this coming if they tried that. Wouldn't they?
I think a reference model is a good way to go. Works for many hardware vendors that also license their technology out(notably video card vendors, of course), works for showing what Android can do for Google, etc. No frills, no contract, just a piece of hardware that shines at showing what the base software can do without having all that other crap(Beats Audio, Dolby Surround, ginormous screen, etc) tacked on.
Given that they've just stiffed OEMs by announcing that literally EVERY unsold phone in the channel is now abandonware, they may NEED to start making their own. Who on earth would want to lose *more* money on phones that almost certainly won't sell?
Looks like they always have to talk, even if they don't have the vaguest idea if there is even the smallest element of truth to it.
they outsource manufacturing.. and in a lot of cases, even the design and development is outsourced... the "company" that sells whatever it is just slaps their name on it.
the largest electronics manufacturer in the world does not have a household name (except for when they make the news for employer-employee issues). it sells very few products at retail of its own. they are the lowest bidder that makes products for other companies.
apple is a software and design house. they outsource manufacturing. they basically exploit the cheap asian labor of foxconn. foxconn and apple have roughly the same gross revenues, but apple's net is over 10 times higher. foxconn has over a million employees while apple 'only' has about 60k. foxconn net revenue per employee is about $2,200.. apple's is over $425,000.
Microsoft is an excellent hardware manufacturer
Their keyboards an joysticks are the best (mid-range) hardware I've come across.
this falls under the "why buy the cow when the milk is on sale?" tab. Nokia is sliding down the chute, and they're still spending a billion bucks to buy an outfit they're partnering with for camera technology they can't use in their WinPhone.
you get better value by burning the billions of dollars on cable TV in a pay-per-view.
there are 30 phone makers in china nobody has heard about that are making unlicensed clones for pennies on the dollar. give any of them a chance to bid on a million WinPhones with Microsoft writing the check, and they can have 'em for ten bucks each.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
This is true. I think Microsoft realizes that they need to have a mobile OS that actually has some demand before they erect a manufacturing operation.
Part of their strategy is probably around this half tablet, half laptop supposedly driving demand toward the mobile OS - they think people who are largely using Android or iOS will be floored by the Surface, buy one, and then want to replace their other devices so they all work with Windows...?
Not bloody likely.
Ballmer's a cornered animal, with all the analysts gunning for him. he'll do anything at this point. that's what we're seeing in Surface and WinPhone8. just because big corporations got shook down for 10 years with "oh, it won't upgrade your existing machines well, but we won't support that old OS, you have to buy it all new" doesn't mean anybody is eating that crap any more. certainly corporations aren't. consumers want all the blingy new shiny without spending anything, just ask the MAFIAA.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
This is true. I think Microsoft realizes that they need to have a mobile OS that actually has some demand before they erect a manufacturing operation.
Part of their strategy is probably around this half tablet, half laptop supposedly driving demand toward the mobile OS - they think people who are largely using Android or iOS will be floored by the Surface, buy one, and then want to replace their other devices so they all work with Windows...?
Not bloody likely.
Further, iOS and Android are generations ahead of Microsoft -- they're settling down, with comfortably large app bases. Microsoft owners will have to go through all that terrain and waiting to see what works well and not well and what gets improved by MS, the same company which can take MONTHS to issue patches to known exploits. MS has to be far more quick to upgrade, patch and address issues because they're alreay starting at least two years behind, if not more.
As for an owner, you'll be attracted if the price is right (read: CHEAP), otherwise you'd much rather be using what everyone else is. Microsoft missed the boat and it'll be having a hell of a time attracting any real customer base. It's effectively the Zune all over again.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I knew they'd throw the Finn's under the bus, but I didn't know they would do it so soon. Microsoft really is a treacherous business partner.
I guess it's only taken this long for MS to pick clean all the IP they're after, and build a list of employees to poach.
I know a lot of people won't agree with what I have to say, but we've seen it before. This is Microsoft's SOP in these sorts of situations. (Plays for sure, anyone?)
Or Clippy Mobile as a competitor for Siri.
I do hope that Microsoft make's hardware for each area there Operating Systems run.
1 - Microsoft would actually "own" their brand and products. Microsoft would sell what actually works correctly for their OS and give their brand a positive reflection instead of relying on questionable PC manufacturers who have caused a lot of Microsoft's brand to decay over the years.
2 - Each sold unit comes with Microsoft's store to upgrade and purchase. This makes the Microsoft eco system viable to others and we all see more competition and probably more Applications as a result, developers engage again to do what they once did to make in building their brand.
3 - They have core OS running across multiple devices and a strategy to interconnect all of them into a healthy full featured "experience" within the corporation and at home e.g. tabletop, desktop, laptop, tablet, mobile device, "glass, pixelsense" or "surface" consumers at all levels get more and can do more seemlessly.
4 - If Microsoft competed on the hardware end, we might see hardware venders build better products, start to innovate instead of copy.
5- Perhaps just maybe a company like HP might do more to bolster their Operating System to compete against Microsoft and Apple. Heck hardware vendors upset with Microsoft might actually sit down and take a hard look at Linux, doing improvements like Apple did to Berkeley Standard Distribution and help Linux connect with end users through interface and usability. Not just selling pre installed Linux, but building on it like Apple did with BSD.
When I look Microsoft being in the hardware business, what comes to mind is how they might be enabling some healthy competition, whether that competition means hardware vendors stepping up and developing the types of products people want and can rely on using a Windows operating system or their going out and making their own operating system that competes head to head, we the consumers are all better off for it. So from my viewpoint, Microsoft please, be in the hardware business, make products to exemplify your brand positively and shake up the OEMs who have become complacent for so many years.
To whom? Magical manufacturing pixies?
The companies that do the outsourcing outsource to, guess what, companies that do manufacturing. It is true that very frequently the companies that specialize in branding products and marketing them to consumers aren't the same companies that specialize in manufacturing the products, but it is very much not the case that companies don't make stuff anymore.
Microsoft missed the boat and it'll be having a hell of a time attracting any real customer base.
They spent $400 million on marketing and reputation management of WP7. How much do you reckon they'll spend on W8?
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Decent tablets are starting to appear at about $100. Before this appears a nice 7" quad core tablet will be $200. An actual iPad starts at $350. I just don't see it priced to appeal to Windows users. And the pro? No way.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Maybe nothing. Nokia, assuming due dilligence was done, would not have blindly entered into a sole source relationship with Microsoft as software vendor without securing some sort of non-compete clause or at least a Most-favored-nation type deal for access to the software in the future. My guess is that Nokia will not find iiself competing against MS on phones.
On the other hand, maybe Nokia is just that stupid.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
"ust because big corporations got shook down for 10 years with "oh, it won't upgrade your existing machines well, but we won't support that old OS, you have to buy it all new" doesn't mean anybody is eating that crap any more."
I agree. That's why my company doesn't buy any Apple products. But, we're still happily using Windows XP that was released 11 years ago.
They could play off nostalgia and make the default screen color blue.
Some here bleat on about 'Google bought Motorola for the patents'. Nevertheless, Motorola is in the doldrums as far as stealing back market share from the likes of Samsung.
Either Google closes down Moto's manufacturing division or they start pumping out Nexus models to revive them.
It's cool how all of slashdot's IT lifers are arm chair executives. Tell us more visionary one!
"Finnish him!"
Help stamp out iliturcy.
There seems to be one thing worse than being Microsoft's enemy. That is being their partner.
1: Elop takes over, and Osbournes them by announcing the switch to Windows Phone with no Windows Phone actually coming anytime soon.
2: Microsoft announces that Win8 will have a new Kernel and that currently for sale phones (Nokia Phones) won't be upgrading to new kernel, thus killing desire for current Nokia phones.
3: Microsoft starts making it's own Windows phones.
Step 3 is hypothetical at this point, but looks like it might be enough to kill already weakened Nokia.
"First they laugh at you. Then you fail. Then they laugh at you again."
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
they think people who are largely using Android or iOS will be floored by the Surface, buy one, and then want to replace their other devices so they all work with Windows...? Not bloody likely.
It's more likely that Google will finally recognize the obvious, that is, Android needs to support standard X applications so the whole code base such as LibreOffice works on Android, allowing it to function effectively as a laptop replacement, whereas right now it only kinda sorta does. Without this push from Microsoft, a bad case of hubris in the executive suite over at the former SGI headquarters would allow the current stupidity to continue, so here is a heartfelt shoutout to Microsoft for that. Otherwise, Microsoft can fuck off and die.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
They spent $400 million on marketing and reputation management of WP7. How much do you reckon they'll spend on W8?
$4 billion and everybody will still hate it.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
because no one will buy them anyway.
I'm not sure this is true.
I'm not a fan of Microsoft, having watched their bad behavior over the decades. However, one thing I've noticed is that they are very stubborn. They will keep trying, and trying, and trying, and trying, in some markets, until they succeed. Also, they can throw massive resources at a problem for a very long period of time, until it succeeds, thanks to their Windows and Office cash cows. And those cash cows are still delivering the milk. Big time.
Also, I've typically been pretty confident about Google, but when it comes to Android, I'm not so sure anymore. Google is allowing the carriers to run amok with Android, giving Android a bad name. The fragmentation is a real problem. The OS updates (or lack thereof) to existing phones is a real problem. The carriers mangling the experience is a real problem. The spotty support for this feature or that feature is a real problem.
The crappy Android devices are a real problem, too. (I'm not saying they're all crappy, but a lot of them are.) Sure, having several price points is great, but it only takes one bad experience with a crappy Android phone to push someone to iPhone... or maybe, just maybe, a Windows Phone.
If Microsoft can avoid these problems plaguing Android devices, they might manage to get a foothold. And then gain a little market share. And a little more, and a little more. And then, oops, all of a sudden, Microsoft is a real contender in smartphones.
Again, I'm no Microsoft lover. Their anti-competitive practices in the past has left me cold. The fact that every time they dominate some niche, they usually stop innovating, has left me cold. The way they break up products into far too many versions has left me cold. Their nickle-and-dime dance has left me cold.
But there are plenty of examples of Microsoft not giving up, trying again and again, until they get it right (or close enough to right) and become a serious player in an area where they used to be a laughing stock.
Predictions of Microsoft's failure in smartphones is a never-ending echo right now, but if Google keeps stumbling with Android, there may be room for another competitor. Especially with how fickle consumers are. If they are replacing their smartphones every 2-3 years anyway, they might decide it's not such a big deal to try out a Windows Phone for a couple of years... and they might end up sticking with it.
the same company which can take MONTHS to issue patches to known exploits.
Oh come on, you can bag Microsoft for a lot of things but not for their patch updating, they are very quick with that, Apple are getting better but still take quite a while to roll out security updates and look at Android, many of those devices don't get security updates (well any updates for that matter) at all! Google really needs a strategy on getting OS updates to devices directly, at least Google-certified ones anyway.
No. They'll just get their ass handed to them by Apple and Google. They sell into an extremely price-conscious segment of the market. Apple sells premium products to people who have the cash (and even then, Microsoft can't compete with them on price because it doesn't benefit from being the largest component purchaser in the world like Apple). Google gives their products away to then in turn sell eyeballs to advertisers. When they buy Motorola, assuming they keep the hardware business, they can still sell their product subsidized with ad revenues.
What can Microsoft subsidize their product with? App sales? But their customers are cheapskates who don't like to pay for anything, there aren't actually any RT apps worth paying for, and there won't be for another year or so (good apps with native experience take time to build). Ads? But their ads business sucks ass. It's a tough spot they've painted themselves into, and their unwillingness to fully embrace the ARM "pure tablet" form factor, and insistence on calling everything "Windows" will hurt them pretty bad.
Android needs to support standard X applications so the whole code base such as LibreOffice works on Android, allowing it to function effectively as a laptop replacement
It looks like they're heading down a different path and trying to get the app stack running on Android. Buying QuickOffice suggests they won't be pushing too hard to get Libre on there. http://googleblog.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/google-quickoffice-get-more-done.html.
There's already third party X11 servers, so they may appear on the open source versions of Android soon, if there's enough demand.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theqvd.android.x&hl=en
http://my20percent.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/android-x-server/
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
It looks like they're heading down a different path and trying to get the app stack running on Android. Buying QuickOffice suggests they won't be pushing too hard to get Libre on there.
Wow, you could interpret that position in a highly negative light. I would hope I'm wrong about that. In any case, I only used LibreOffice as one example. There are thousands more.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Maybe?
Its tech - won't affect my career or salary so I don't care to speculate, or care about the product. Go learn something instead.
$4 billion and everybody will still hate it.
Yes they'll spend billions on marketing it, they'll pay OEMs to use it (and use it exclusively), they'll pay businesses to use their office suites, they'll pay government officials to use their software, they'll ignore piracy because it gets their software out there and after all that everyone will hate it and not want to use it yet in spite of widely available alternatives somehow hundreds of millions of people will still use it and that will make them money. I almost managed to type that whole thing without having to adjust my tinfoil hat!
If they are smart, they will subsidize it with Windows and Office. Last I checked Microsoft wasn't exactly broke...
I see a lot of crapware, but nothing decent. Even the Kindle Fire is crapware at $200. Only good as an e-reader and to purchase stuff from Amazon. For everything else, it is horrendous ... even streaming movies is a pain ... and the quality of the display is poor.
Updates are released months or even years after 1st reported. They still have unfixed bugs and vulnerabilities that were reported since Windows 2000.
The fact that you see a path a few days after a vulnerability is publicized does not mean that MS just learned about it. It only means that that is when it became publicly known.
Dalvik by itself is a resource hog and the response to user input is VISUALLY SLUGGISH (please don't deny it ... it is very visible even with a quad-core). Add X support and you will have the most unresponsive mobile device in history. X is not lightweight ....
Not the cheap "skin" (Samsung is actually worst) .... it is the piss poor battery life.
The RAZR had a decent battery life .... for about 6 months. Then it degraded rapidly to a point that by the end of the 1st year you need to replaced it.
Microsoft can 'subsidize' their product with Corporate data-center integration.
Do you seriously think businesses want to give their employees smartphones that they can download games onto from App Stores. If Microsoft finally does it right and integrates their business apps (Office, Exchange, etc.) it won't matter what other smartphone vendors offer. Corporate IT will tell people what they are getting. And when said people realize how well their Outlook works, they'll be satisfied.
No-one on Slashdot will buy them, but people with an insane, visceral hatred of Microsoft are a small minority.
I don't believe that Microsoft Extend Surface Model And Manufacture Windows Phones. They want to eat the cake?
I really love club dresses ,
The employees will want to carry two devices?
If email is the only thing the device will support, why bother with a smartphone at all? There are feature phones that have that, or at least there were in the past.
These days BYOD is huge, companies don't want to pay for, support and insure/replace all these devices.
I'm not a fan of Microsoft,
Google is allowing the carriers to run amok with Android
The spotty support for this feature or that feature is a real problem.
The crappy Android devices are a real problem, too.
Classic astroturfing; try to emphasize with audience and then attack the competition.
people with an insane, visceral hatred of Microsoft are a small minority.
Actually, I think these people are a majority, but only a minority are knowledgeable enough and willing to expend the effort to do anything about it.
Classic astroturfing; try to emphasize with audience and then attack the competition.
I can see where you might draw that conclusion, but no, I'm not astroturfing.
I don't have a horse in the race (I don't own a smartphone). Also, I have a Gmail (not Hotmail) email account. And I enjoy using Google Docs, they meet my needs wonderfully.
If anything, I'm a little bit of a Google fanboy. But that doesn't stop me from perceiving that Google is stumbling a bit with Android.
If you have a real counterargument instead of an Ad Hominem on my character, let me know.
Tizen
Don't see the bubbles on your feet, look at the tsunami on three years.
Microsoft making a very irregular public strategy, although I suppose very clever inside. ... well, Nokia.
Google making fog around with its Motorola acquisition.
Nokia
When Nokia trashed Meego and let Intel in the air, Intel made an alliance with Samsung, the only other manufacturer could define a tendency against Apple, revive Meego and defined the path for something. As open source project, won't be competitive for these days, but open source products work on the long term and and the end they catch the market. Samsung doesn't like to be alive only this year, as Nokia seems to work for, but for many years in the future, can't put all the coins in the same basket, so needs to develop a better one for their future.