Again, I understood you perfectly. The obvious choice to compare is with the Android that you own or are considering buying.
But I don't own an Android device and I'm not considering buying one.
My point is that when people are trying to argue in favour of Android, they always pick a different "obvious model to compare", depending on what they are trying to argue.
I'm comparing it not based on the phone and I'm not arguing in favor of Android but on the fact that Google does the same thing with their phone with regard to updates as Apple does with their phone with regard to updates. If you own a phone from Google you care what LG does with updating their phones about as much as you do if you own an iPhone, the fact that they might both run Android is irrelevant.
Your part in this is only arguing for the model with the best updates.
No, which demonstrates that you do indeed fail to understand the context of the discussion, I'm comparing the workings of the companies with regard to updating their devices, not the features of the phone or the OS.
I understood it perfectly. It appears you didn't understand my answer.
Well no, you obviously didn't otherwise you wouldn't have posted such a nonsensical answer. There is no 'game', I'm not comparing phone specs, so you obviously did fail to comprehend the context of the discussion. Like I said, if you're going to compare Apple to an Android device maker the obvious choice is to compare them to Google, because Google - like Apple - controls OS development/updates as well as having a handset (even if though building of that handset is contracted out to someone else).
I don't blame Apple for suing to protect Jonathan Ive's design work, because if one of the knock-offs is low quality or problematic, it can end up hurting Apple's brand.
But it's ok for Apple to steal from other designers like they've done with the AppleTV? Who cares about this sort of stuff, they have logos and trademarks to differentiate their products.
Let's use a hypothetical. Let's say a Youtube app was based on the old Flash/mpeg4 model, and your app ran that way. Now let's say Youtube dropped flash/mpeg4 in support in favor of HTML5/OGG. App broken.
That would break all apps on all platforms that use Flash instead of HTML5, it's no different from any other platform. You really think people just buy new devices because Youtube changes? No, they write new apps or update existing ones, and since the platform is the same there's no reason to think Samsung wouldn't update the app because otherwise even their new TVs wouldn't work. Also it's open (in the sense that anyone can write for it) so there are going to be other apps anyway. Look at the iPhone 2G, years old but still working with all the services.
The web changes faster than software, software faster than hardware. If you are hardware based, you will break when you can't update software and the web or standards its based on changes.
But it isn't hardware-based, it's software running on that hardware that matters, not the hardware itself.
Also, as with Facebook, you get no new features if you can't update, ie- Facebook Timeline.
What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you be able to update? Of course you can update.
The problem with Google TV integrated is that once the hardware isn't capable anymore, that $8000 LG OLED TV needs a complete replacement, rather than replacing a $200 set top box.
Isn't capable of what? Even if it gets to the point where some feature is invented that the hardware for some reason cannot do that you really need and you don't want to buy a new TV then you can just buy a set-top box. But the original AppleTV has been going fine for around 5 years now and i certainly haven't found any issue with the hardware in my smart tvs despite them being years old.
And what makes me wonder is that companies capable of identifying and taking down audio and video tracks (censoring on copyright basis), claim they cannot block posts? (not that I agree with any, but I really wonder why. I'm guessing you're spot on with subjectivity)
It's not that they cannot block posts, it's that they cannot identify which posts to block.
Even if they are, that doesn't help many Android phone owners.
Of course, but if you're going to compare Apple to another company with respect to phones then compare them to Google, since both companies make and update the OS as well as hardware (well ok Google contracts Samsung to produce their Nexus but it's the closest thing comparison).
You really think Samsung is going to support your TV 2 years down the road? No, they want you to buy a new TV just like they want you to buy a new phone.
Why? Even though the xbox360 has gone through a number of hardware iterations and cosmetic changes the original models are still supported because they run the same platform as the newer ones.
With the speed at which apps and services are available, your TV will effectively be "broken".
How would it be 'broken'? All the apps from my C7000 and C6500 Samsung TVs still work fine, the most used ones are based on services like Youtube and Facebook, why would they suddenly 'break'? And assuming they stick with a common platform then app updates will be available to older TVs until the hardware isn't capable anymore, just like what happens with game consoles.
What I said was:"Apple does see the value in doing software updates for old models, for as long as the old model has the power to run the new software OK."
Isn't Google exactly the same with their Nexus line? Even the old Nexus One has had all the updates but the latest 4.0 is just too taxing on the hardware.
OS X comes on Apple hardware, which Apple manufactures, and you're free to not buy such Apple hardware.
So basically you're saying that if Microsoft contracted OEMs to build Windows devices rather than just licensing Windows to them - in essence creating the same vertical integration that Apple has - then it would be ok?
Though as it stands you're free not to buy WHQL-certified hardware just as you're free not to buy Apple hardware so I don't see the issue.
But I think that it is true generally that of the people using Windows products, more are doing it because there's something they have to do that requires it, (ex: Microsoft Office, Communicator, Outlook) and of people using Apple products, more are doing it because they like Apple products
Obviously not, given that all 3 of your examples have up-to-date Mac versions as well. If you require those 3 you are most definitely NOT tied to Windows.
What is a windows device exactly? Microsoft marketing dept have invented this concept that Windows is somehow hardware. Its not. Windows is an OS.
You know like 'Android tablets', whatever OS it is sold with, that the vast majority of people who buy them will never ever change.
I buy computers (not Windows devices, or apple devices). I need them to do the things I want. Its my property. I can and should be able to do what I like with it.
But that hasn't been the case for a very long time, the original Windows tablets (those that shipped with Windows) could have whatever you wanted installed on them, then the tablet game changed with Apple and if you buy a tablet from Apple you're locked to their policies and locked down hardware and software (not that i have a problem with that, i have an ipad and i don't mind Apple's policies).
If you don't want a locked device then don't buy a locked device, it's pretty simple.
Making it impossible to dual-boot your ARM device. Security for the boot sector is one thing, making it impossible to install another OS by choice is something else.
How is this any different from many of the existing devices out there? Look at the ipad for example, the most common tablet out there does exactly this, how is that any different? Why is that 'because it's an ipad' that makes it ok?
The point here is that MS is strongarming hardware manufacturers to develop devices that only work with Windows.
This is no different to vertical integration, if MS contracted those companies to build devices for them. But you've proclaimed many times that Windows 8 is going to be a failure, so i don't see what you're worried about anyway.
The reality here is that there almost certainly won't be tablets released with Android to go along side the ones that have Win 8 on them.
No, that's not the reality at all. Android is already well established in the market and has significant marketshare, manufacturers aren't going to be abandoning Android for Windows 8. And you've already proclaimed numerous times that Windows 8 will be a failure, so i don't know how you're coming to this conclusion.
What's more, if one is restricted to using Android only or Linux only devices if one wants to run something other than Windows, then one is going to have a substantially smaller number of devices from which to choose.
You can't run Android on an iPad, you can't run iOS on an Android tablet, you can't run Windows on an Android tablet (well AFAIK pretty much all of them) and you won't be able to run iOS or Android on a Windows 8 tablet...who really cares?
I have read the docs, maybe you should read my post, i said videos and photos, not iTMS videos and photos, and of course there's no match service for videos so any non-iTunes videos or anything you've captured on the iphones HD video camera is going to eat up that 5GB real fast. And photos in photostream expire after 30 days so that's no good for photo storage.
Name ONE program, just one mind you, that consumers use that is written in either.NET or JAVA.
A quick glance in my start menu: CDBurnerXP, which is written in.Net. But of course there are plenty of others and pretty much everything bundled in Windows 7 is.Net and naturally there are.Net/Java alternatives to many of the small utilities many people use. Add to it that many popular applications utilize cross-platform frameworks like Qt and will only need a recompile targeted at ARM to work straight away.
since AMD tossed.NET for Visual C++.
Since when did AMD get rid of.Net in favor of VC++?
You want to know what they ARE using I'll be happy to tell ya, they are using all the programs you get on CDs at Walmart, they are using some video editing app that came with their camera, some photo app that came with their printer (usually Roxio or EasyShare) and a ton of flash gaming like Farmville. notice that NONE of those run on ARM?
Actually Flash and Air run on ARM. As for the others how could i 'notice that none of them run on ARM' when you aren't telling me what they actually are or what they are written in, you're just saying they're 'some video editing app' or 'some photo app', you don't specify what they are, much less what language they are written in or what framework they use, which i doubt you even know. What is the Roxio and Easyshare software written in?
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Again, I understood you perfectly. The obvious choice to compare is with the Android that you own or are considering buying.
But I don't own an Android device and I'm not considering buying one.
My point is that when people are trying to argue in favour of Android, they always pick a different "obvious model to compare", depending on what they are trying to argue.
I'm comparing it not based on the phone and I'm not arguing in favor of Android but on the fact that Google does the same thing with their phone with regard to updates as Apple does with their phone with regard to updates. If you own a phone from Google you care what LG does with updating their phones about as much as you do if you own an iPhone, the fact that they might both run Android is irrelevant.
Your part in this is only arguing for the model with the best updates.
No, which demonstrates that you do indeed fail to understand the context of the discussion, I'm comparing the workings of the companies with regard to updating their devices, not the features of the phone or the OS.
I understood it perfectly. It appears you didn't understand my answer.
Well no, you obviously didn't otherwise you wouldn't have posted such a nonsensical answer. There is no 'game', I'm not comparing phone specs, so you obviously did fail to comprehend the context of the discussion. Like I said, if you're going to compare Apple to an Android device maker the obvious choice is to compare them to Google, because Google - like Apple - controls OS development/updates as well as having a handset (even if though building of that handset is contracted out to someone else).
I know this game.
wtf are you talking about? I think you need to go back and read the post again, you have obviously failed to comprehend it.
No we will live in 8.3 file names as long as FAT is the defacto standard for all portable drives.
Why? FAT LFN support has been commonplace for well over a decade. Where have you recently been restricted to 8.3 filenames?
I don't blame Apple for suing to protect Jonathan Ive's design work, because if one of the knock-offs is low quality or problematic, it can end up hurting Apple's brand.
But it's ok for Apple to steal from other designers like they've done with the AppleTV? Who cares about this sort of stuff, they have logos and trademarks to differentiate their products.
Let's use a hypothetical. Let's say a Youtube app was based on the old Flash/mpeg4 model, and your app ran that way. Now let's say Youtube dropped flash/mpeg4 in support in favor of HTML5/OGG. App broken.
That would break all apps on all platforms that use Flash instead of HTML5, it's no different from any other platform. You really think people just buy new devices because Youtube changes? No, they write new apps or update existing ones, and since the platform is the same there's no reason to think Samsung wouldn't update the app because otherwise even their new TVs wouldn't work. Also it's open (in the sense that anyone can write for it) so there are going to be other apps anyway. Look at the iPhone 2G, years old but still working with all the services.
The web changes faster than software, software faster than hardware. If you are hardware based, you will break when you can't update software and the web or standards its based on changes.
But it isn't hardware-based, it's software running on that hardware that matters, not the hardware itself.
Also, as with Facebook, you get no new features if you can't update, ie- Facebook Timeline.
What are you talking about? Why wouldn't you be able to update? Of course you can update.
The problem with Google TV integrated is that once the hardware isn't capable anymore, that $8000 LG OLED TV needs a complete replacement, rather than replacing a $200 set top box.
Isn't capable of what? Even if it gets to the point where some feature is invented that the hardware for some reason cannot do that you really need and you don't want to buy a new TV then you can just buy a set-top box. But the original AppleTV has been going fine for around 5 years now and i certainly haven't found any issue with the hardware in my smart tvs despite them being years old.
And what makes me wonder is that companies capable of identifying and taking down audio and video tracks (censoring on copyright basis), claim they cannot block posts? (not that I agree with any, but I really wonder why. I'm guessing you're spot on with subjectivity)
It's not that they cannot block posts, it's that they cannot identify which posts to block.
Even if they are, that doesn't help many Android phone owners.
Of course, but if you're going to compare Apple to another company with respect to phones then compare them to Google, since both companies make and update the OS as well as hardware (well ok Google contracts Samsung to produce their Nexus but it's the closest thing comparison).
What really makes me wonder what they are thinking is when they suggest blocking of 'offensive' content, as though that's not a subjective term.
You really think Samsung is going to support your TV 2 years down the road? No, they want you to buy a new TV just like they want you to buy a new phone.
Why? Even though the xbox360 has gone through a number of hardware iterations and cosmetic changes the original models are still supported because they run the same platform as the newer ones.
With the speed at which apps and services are available, your TV will effectively be "broken".
How would it be 'broken'? All the apps from my C7000 and C6500 Samsung TVs still work fine, the most used ones are based on services like Youtube and Facebook, why would they suddenly 'break'? And assuming they stick with a common platform then app updates will be available to older TVs until the hardware isn't capable anymore, just like what happens with game consoles.
Not that one HDMI port and one power cable is such a burden to begin with.
It is when the cable box occupies the TV's first HDMI port and the video game console occupies the TV's other HDMI port.
So get a TV with more than 2 HDMI ports or get a HDMI splitter.
What I said was:"Apple does see the value in doing software updates for old models, for as long as the old model has the power to run the new software OK."
Isn't Google exactly the same with their Nexus line? Even the old Nexus One has had all the updates but the latest 4.0 is just too taxing on the hardware.
None of this hits "abuse of monopoly", because they sell hardware and software as one.
Just like Acer, Asus, HP, etc... do with Windows and Android.
OS X comes on Apple hardware, which Apple manufactures, and you're free to not buy such Apple hardware.
So basically you're saying that if Microsoft contracted OEMs to build Windows devices rather than just licensing Windows to them - in essence creating the same vertical integration that Apple has - then it would be ok?
Though as it stands you're free not to buy WHQL-certified hardware just as you're free not to buy Apple hardware so I don't see the issue.
Most people? That's pretty lofty. Care to cite your sources?
From the people who brought you 'Year of the Linux Desktop'?
But I think that it is true generally that of the people using Windows products, more are doing it because there's something they have to do that requires it, (ex: Microsoft Office, Communicator, Outlook) and of people using Apple products, more are doing it because they like Apple products
Obviously not, given that all 3 of your examples have up-to-date Mac versions as well. If you require those 3 you are most definitely NOT tied to Windows.
No they cannot. When UEFI runs the MBR has not yet been read and executed, Get your facts straight.
You clearly have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, UEFI doesn't even have an MBR, Get your facts straight.
What is a windows device exactly? Microsoft marketing dept have invented this concept that Windows is somehow hardware. Its not. Windows is an OS.
You know like 'Android tablets', whatever OS it is sold with, that the vast majority of people who buy them will never ever change.
I buy computers (not Windows devices, or apple devices). I need them to do the things I want. Its my property. I can and should be able to do what I like with it.
But that hasn't been the case for a very long time, the original Windows tablets (those that shipped with Windows) could have whatever you wanted installed on them, then the tablet game changed with Apple and if you buy a tablet from Apple you're locked to their policies and locked down hardware and software (not that i have a problem with that, i have an ipad and i don't mind Apple's policies).
If you don't want a locked device then don't buy a locked device, it's pretty simple.
Making it impossible to dual-boot your ARM device. Security for the boot sector is one thing, making it impossible to install another OS by choice is something else.
How is this any different from many of the existing devices out there? Look at the ipad for example, the most common tablet out there does exactly this, how is that any different? Why is that 'because it's an ipad' that makes it ok?
The point here is that MS is strongarming hardware manufacturers to develop devices that only work with Windows.
This is no different to vertical integration, if MS contracted those companies to build devices for them. But you've proclaimed many times that Windows 8 is going to be a failure, so i don't see what you're worried about anyway.
The reality here is that there almost certainly won't be tablets released with Android to go along side the ones that have Win 8 on them.
No, that's not the reality at all. Android is already well established in the market and has significant marketshare, manufacturers aren't going to be abandoning Android for Windows 8. And you've already proclaimed numerous times that Windows 8 will be a failure, so i don't know how you're coming to this conclusion.
What's more, if one is restricted to using Android only or Linux only devices if one wants to run something other than Windows, then one is going to have a substantially smaller number of devices from which to choose.
You can't run Android on an iPad, you can't run iOS on an Android tablet, you can't run Windows on an Android tablet (well AFAIK pretty much all of them) and you won't be able to run iOS or Android on a Windows 8 tablet...who really cares?
Replace 'tablet' with 'ARM device' then, it's really not that complicated.
Huh, read the docs: http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/ iTMS stuff is free...
I have read the docs, maybe you should read my post, i said videos and photos, not iTMS videos and photos, and of course there's no match service for videos so any non-iTunes videos or anything you've captured on the iphones HD video camera is going to eat up that 5GB real fast. And photos in photostream expire after 30 days so that's no good for photo storage.
Name ONE program, just one mind you, that consumers use that is written in either .NET or JAVA.
A quick glance in my start menu: CDBurnerXP, which is written in .Net. But of course there are plenty of others and pretty much everything bundled in Windows 7 is .Net and naturally there are .Net/Java alternatives to many of the small utilities many people use. Add to it that many popular applications utilize cross-platform frameworks like Qt and will only need a recompile targeted at ARM to work straight away.
since AMD tossed .NET for Visual C++.
Since when did AMD get rid of .Net in favor of VC++?
You want to know what they ARE using I'll be happy to tell ya, they are using all the programs you get on CDs at Walmart, they are using some video editing app that came with their camera, some photo app that came with their printer (usually Roxio or EasyShare) and a ton of flash gaming like Farmville. notice that NONE of those run on ARM?
Actually Flash and Air run on ARM. As for the others how could i 'notice that none of them run on ARM' when you aren't telling me what they actually are or what they are written in, you're just saying they're 'some video editing app' or 'some photo app', you don't specify what they are, much less what language they are written in or what framework they use, which i doubt you even know. What is the Roxio and Easyshare software written in?
iCloud is free. You only pay for match ($25/yr) if you want it.
You only get 5GB for free, with some photos and a couple of videos you'll max that out pretty quick.
Good god, talk about moving goalposts.
--Jeremy
You can successfully argue just about any point if you keep moving goalposts like that ;)