I was just wondering, what would you ever need this for?
I would imagine that you would use these in any devices that required an integrated solution; Linux is great for embedded devices because of its (potentially) small footprint. Many, many devices have such chips in them... even things you wouldn't think of as having a "computer" inside.
Hmm... I don't see USB or SCSI in the design diagram of the chip... the actual IC contains an Ethernet Transceiver, 2MB flash chip, 8 MB of SDRAM and the actual processor itself. I believe that the $75 is for this package. Additional controllers such as SCSI, USB, etc. probably cost more...
Ok, in that case I can agree with you. It's not usually such a great idea to break out the ol' assembly code. However, it is certainly a very good idea to understand assembly code, and to know how it works on various machines.
The good news is a lot of this seems documented. There are pin and bus specs for the Micronas chip, and the i2c and i2s buses are documented as well by Philips.
In this day and age, this is a miracle! It seems like it's becoming harder and harder to get companies to disclose enough information to actually write proper hardware drivers. For Linux, this is obviously an issue, because hardly any hardware developers supply their own drivers.
So far, it looks like Apple hasn't been all talk in their support of the community, and this may bode well.
The problem I have with your statement is... well, I could care less about assembler code! The fact of the matter is that the only people that should care about it, or need it are the people that are writing the compilers, assemblers, linkers and loaders.
Alas, I despair for the world of technology. Understanding assembler goes hand in hand with understanding computer architecture. If you do not have at least a basic understanding of computer architecture, then I find it very scary that you could even graduate from a B.S. in CS program.
I agree that you probably will never need to write assembly code, but understanding how assembly works on different platforms allows you to optimize your code for a variety of architectures.
Hmm... if you had actually read and understood the post you are replying to, then you should be ashamed of yourself. The poster even said that part of the design philosophy behind the P4 was so that it will reach higher clock speeds, and thus the Intel engineers figured that the benefits in clock speed outweighed the performance hits. Personally, I think that the more elegant chips are nicer, although perhaps not always faster. Sometimes, people can't realize that brute force is not always the way to go...
Are American's today really so uneducated that they can't find the square root of 144, or the value of 2^10 without using a calculator?
God, I hope not. I'm an American, and I sure as hell know how to do stuff like that in my head. Unfortunately, I know many people that probably could not. Hell, before July 4, a bunch of high school age kids were asked what the Fourth of July was celebrating, and they either didn't know, or thought that it was our independence from France...
I had a professor in college who used to challenge students to contests doing calculations. He used a slide rule, and they could use whatever tool they wanted (they always used a calculator as far as I know).
Now, I had never even seen, let alone used, a slide rule before. However, this guy's fingers would fly over that thing. I can't remember him ever losing while I was there, but he said that he had been bested a few times. The funniest thing was that he was usually done by the time the poor kid had found the ln button on the calculator...
Really? I would think that the better Linux gets the more attractive it will be. Not to most users, but to developers
Ok, but who will the developers be developing for?I don't mean to be confrontational, but unless the user base grows, few companies will port their apps to Linux. And the user base won't grow until more apps are ported. There must be a solution to this problem somewhere...
hardly think it will take MS share, but I belive it will get a good hold within 2-3 years, which is a long time to make Linux more mature and friendly to newbies...
That is precisely what I am saying. The maturation of Linux is not complete, but the longer it takes to mature, the more entrenched the Microsoft/Windows mindset becomes in the minds of Corporate America. The longer it takes, the harder it will be to make people look at alternatives.
Yes, but Linux as a server OS and Linux as an embedded OS is already kicking Microsoft's ass... do desktops really have a future, or will 95% of PCs be replaced by embedded devices (e.g. web pads) ten years from now?
I wholeheartedly agree... many people feel that Linux does not need to be on the desktop, nor should it be on the desktop. Obviously, the developers of KDE/GNOME/etc feel that Linux has a future as a workstation OS. Fortunately, due to the open nature of the system, it can be scaled down to run on embedded devices, and scaled up to run on big iron. This complexity obviously comes at a cost, and the question that is important when looking at Linux as a desktop OS is:
Can this complexity be hidden from your average user, and if so, how well can this be done?
There have already been several important steps towards this goal, but we are still a long way off. Until your average user can boot up, scan a few pictures or plug in a USB digital camera and easily e-mail them to the kids or grandma or what have you, Linux will not have the strength for a head-to-head battle with Windows.
Which is my point... standard look and feel doesn't matter jack jelly beans, unless the application is well designed.
That's just it. This is not meant as a slight against the Open Source community, but the best programmers are not always the best interface designers. Some pieces of software have really great interfaces, and others are incomprehensible; there is not standard at the moment.
I realize that there's no standard for Windows apps either, and some of those also have really poor interfaces (look at Lotus Notes for a great example of the worst possible interface ever created).
I think that the confusion comes from the plethora of graphical toolkits that are available, as well as the lack of standard menu options. At the moment, in Windows, I can find most settings very quickly because at least the top level menus are standardized (after that they tend to go to shit pretty quickly). The one other huge benefit is the clipboard, which I have yet to see successfully emulated under Linux...
Please correct me if I am wrong, because I'd love to get clipboard-like functionality on my Linux box.
I wonder how many companies (small companies, most likely!) are considering the same thing?
I think that small companies are where Linux is going to have to make inroads into the market. They are more nimble and able to adapt to changing conditions, and are thus more easily able to adopt a different development and/or desktop platform. It is the larger corporations that will find it the most difficult to change over. We can hope that a sort of domino effect will occur, but it will take a lot of effort, and a lot of luck.
Stolen or not, they've created for themselves the largest software user base ever. That is an incredibly difficult battle to fight. Linux as a desktop OS has a ways to go before it fully matures, and I fear that it will take something a monumentally stupid act on Microsoft's part to help this come about (I was hoping this subscription thing would start it. Who knows, maybe it still will...)
Unfortunately, I don't think that this really changes anything. Microsoft, for all we bash them here, is not stupid. Stupid companies go out of business. They may have shady business practices, they may not make the greatest software, but they are certainly not the imbeciles we often make them out to be.
My guess is that they are doing this in order to gauge the marketplace reaction to their subscription model. Many people don't feel the need to upgrade, and it's possible they've got something under their belt that will change that in the next year (or at least they hope it will change).
KDE is certainly nice, but for your average Joe Sixpack, it still isn't quite there, and corporations already have a huge installed workforce already trained and familiar with Windows. It will take Microsoft driving customers away (already begun) in combination with the maturation of one or both of Linux's desktop systems to really get things moving. Much of the software already exists, but the user base simply does not.
This creates an unfortunate Catch-22, because many pieces of software are useful, but are certainly not polished for the masses, because the user base isn't large - and the user base isn't large because the software is not polished.
One thing that Linux on the desktop needs more than anything else is a standard look and feel. Diversity is certainly a good thing, but it's hard to explain that to someone who has to learn a different set of menus for every single piece of software that they want to use.
That, my friend, is something that makes sense. A decent CD-ROM encyclopedia, along with some other reference materials, coupled with an older x86 books, makes far more sense than distrbuting a bunch of Playstations...
For the record, I was bashing no one. As someone who has experienced what we are all sitting around and babbling about, I'm sure you're in a much better position than I to understand the situation.
If you really feel that this will be helpful, then that's great. However, some of your points just don't make sense. First, you say things aren't as bad as we make them out to be. You then say that it's in "poor taste" because the society is desparately in need. Since when does having access to the Web count as "desparately in need"? You say things aren't that bad, and then attempt to prey on people's emotions by telling them how bad the situation is. Just out of curiosity, which is it?
I didn't say that nobody would benefit from this, I just said that it seems like there are more pressing needs that are not being met. However, like I said in a previous post, I've never been to a Third World country. If what you say is indeed true, then perhaps this could be a decent way of getting some of the populace connected. The only problem I have with this is that it seems so "gimmicky". It would make more sense to send over some of the older machines that nobody uses anymore (of which there are many). A P-200 or P-166 with a slimmed down Linux install and a decent web browser would probably fit their needs nicely, and I'm sure that are even faster systems sitting around doing nothing (I've got a PII-350 and dual Cel 366 parts just sitting around, and I'm sure many others are in a similar situation). The only benefit that I see from the PS distribution is that you don't need a computer monitor. If the people getting these systems already have a television, then this could work.
The reason is EDUCATION, not about getting them on the net so they can watch webcams.
I'm all for education. That is one of the major stumbling blocks for developing countries. I just would like to reiterate my point that I don't feel that handing out Playstations with Linux on 'em is exactly the best answer to a general lack of education in a populace.
More Slashdot posts from the third-world would lead to a more whole understanding of things here.
I can see how getting knowledge to them is a Good Thing. However, and let's be honest here folks, how is posting to Slashdot going to help the average citizen of a Third World country? I'm sure that they have more pressing things on their minds...
Yes, I agree. Knowledge is most definitely a requirement. However, distributing Playstations with Linux is hardly a step in the right direction. At best, this is a cruel joke. I don't live in a third world country, and I haven't ever been to one. From what I have read and learned about their cultures, what I think they need is a basic educational system before we start handing out high-tech toys. If only we could find educators that would help their governments develop educational systems that actually worked; I doubt that a Western-style school system would be effective, because the cultures are so different. I think it would be great for something to be put in place, though.
Well, if you follow the thinking of these companies, then apparently a Playstation with Linux will solve all of those problems. C'mon, folks... I enjoy Playstation and Linux as much as the next guy, but even I know that it can't cure my bleeding bowels...:)
Slashdot Mirror
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Hmm... I don't see USB or SCSI in the design diagram of the chip... the actual IC contains an Ethernet Transceiver, 2MB flash chip, 8 MB of SDRAM and the actual processor itself. I believe that the $75 is for this package. Additional controllers such as SCSI, USB, etc. probably cost more...
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Ok, in that case I can agree with you. It's not usually such a great idea to break out the ol' assembly code. However, it is certainly a very good idea to understand assembly code, and to know how it works on various machines.
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So far, it looks like Apple hasn't been all talk in their support of the community, and this may bode well.
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I agree that you probably will never need to write assembly code, but understanding how assembly works on different platforms allows you to optimize your code for a variety of architectures.
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Hmm... if you had actually read and understood the post you are replying to, then you should be ashamed of yourself. The poster even said that part of the design philosophy behind the P4 was so that it will reach higher clock speeds, and thus the Intel engineers figured that the benefits in clock speed outweighed the performance hits. Personally, I think that the more elegant chips are nicer, although perhaps not always faster. Sometimes, people can't realize that brute force is not always the way to go...
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I had a professor in college who used to challenge students to contests doing calculations. He used a slide rule, and they could use whatever tool they wanted (they always used a calculator as far as I know).
Now, I had never even seen, let alone used, a slide rule before. However, this guy's fingers would fly over that thing. I can't remember him ever losing while I was there, but he said that he had been bested a few times. The funniest thing was that he was usually done by the time the poor kid had found the ln button on the calculator...
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Can this complexity be hidden from your average user, and if so, how well can this be done?
There have already been several important steps towards this goal, but we are still a long way off. Until your average user can boot up, scan a few pictures or plug in a USB digital camera and easily e-mail them to the kids or grandma or what have you, Linux will not have the strength for a head-to-head battle with Windows.
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I realize that there's no standard for Windows apps either, and some of those also have really poor interfaces (look at Lotus Notes for a great example of the worst possible interface ever created).
I think that the confusion comes from the plethora of graphical toolkits that are available, as well as the lack of standard menu options. At the moment, in Windows, I can find most settings very quickly because at least the top level menus are standardized (after that they tend to go to shit pretty quickly). The one other huge benefit is the clipboard, which I have yet to see successfully emulated under Linux...
Please correct me if I am wrong, because I'd love to get clipboard-like functionality on my Linux box.
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Stolen or not, they've created for themselves the largest software user base ever. That is an incredibly difficult battle to fight. Linux as a desktop OS has a ways to go before it fully matures, and I fear that it will take something a monumentally stupid act on Microsoft's part to help this come about (I was hoping this subscription thing would start it. Who knows, maybe it still will...)
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Unfortunately, I don't think that this really changes anything. Microsoft, for all we bash them here, is not stupid. Stupid companies go out of business. They may have shady business practices, they may not make the greatest software, but they are certainly not the imbeciles we often make them out to be.
My guess is that they are doing this in order to gauge the marketplace reaction to their subscription model. Many people don't feel the need to upgrade, and it's possible they've got something under their belt that will change that in the next year (or at least they hope it will change).
KDE is certainly nice, but for your average Joe Sixpack, it still isn't quite there, and corporations already have a huge installed workforce already trained and familiar with Windows. It will take Microsoft driving customers away (already begun) in combination with the maturation of one or both of Linux's desktop systems to really get things moving. Much of the software already exists, but the user base simply does not.
This creates an unfortunate Catch-22, because many pieces of software are useful, but are certainly not polished for the masses, because the user base isn't large - and the user base isn't large because the software is not polished.
One thing that Linux on the desktop needs more than anything else is a standard look and feel. Diversity is certainly a good thing, but it's hard to explain that to someone who has to learn a different set of menus for every single piece of software that they want to use.
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Whoops... that should read "older x86 box". Christ, the one time I don't preview I have a typo...
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That, my friend, is something that makes sense. A decent CD-ROM encyclopedia, along with some other reference materials, coupled with an older x86 books, makes far more sense than distrbuting a bunch of Playstations...
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For the record, I was bashing no one. As someone who has experienced what we are all sitting around and babbling about, I'm sure you're in a much better position than I to understand the situation.
If you really feel that this will be helpful, then that's great. However, some of your points just don't make sense. First, you say things aren't as bad as we make them out to be. You then say that it's in "poor taste" because the society is desparately in need. Since when does having access to the Web count as "desparately in need"? You say things aren't that bad, and then attempt to prey on people's emotions by telling them how bad the situation is. Just out of curiosity, which is it?
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I didn't say that nobody would benefit from this, I just said that it seems like there are more pressing needs that are not being met. However, like I said in a previous post, I've never been to a Third World country. If what you say is indeed true, then perhaps this could be a decent way of getting some of the populace connected. The only problem I have with this is that it seems so "gimmicky". It would make more sense to send over some of the older machines that nobody uses anymore (of which there are many). A P-200 or P-166 with a slimmed down Linux install and a decent web browser would probably fit their needs nicely, and I'm sure that are even faster systems sitting around doing nothing (I've got a PII-350 and dual Cel 366 parts just sitting around, and I'm sure many others are in a similar situation). The only benefit that I see from the PS distribution is that you don't need a computer monitor. If the people getting these systems already have a television, then this could work.
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I can see how getting knowledge to them is a Good Thing. However, and let's be honest here folks, how is posting to Slashdot going to help the average citizen of a Third World country? I'm sure that they have more pressing things on their minds...
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Yes, I agree. Knowledge is most definitely a requirement. However, distributing Playstations with Linux is hardly a step in the right direction. At best, this is a cruel joke. I don't live in a third world country, and I haven't ever been to one. From what I have read and learned about their cultures, what I think they need is a basic educational system before we start handing out high-tech toys. If only we could find educators that would help their governments develop educational systems that actually worked; I doubt that a Western-style school system would be effective, because the cultures are so different. I think it would be great for something to be put in place, though.
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Well, if you follow the thinking of these companies, then apparently a Playstation with Linux will solve all of those problems. C'mon, folks... I enjoy Playstation and Linux as much as the next guy, but even I know that it can't cure my bleeding bowels... :)
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Heh, this reminds me of a "Very Special" Dilbert about friends.
"Boyfiend and Girlfriend, traditional view" - Sitting on a couch together, girlfriend is thinking "Love", boyfriend is thinking "Lust".
"Boyfriend and Girlfriend, modern view" - Sitting on couch, girlfriend is thinking "Lust", boyfriend is thinking "Television".
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