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Microsoft Delays New Licensing Terms
Reader tempestdata indicates this CNN story, writing: "It appears Microsoft is facing quite a bit of opposition for its new licensing program." It looks like Redmond is granting a one-fiscal-year reprieve to the many companies who were caught off-guard by the announcement of new Microsoft licensing plans. Perhaps some of those companies would be interested in the new KDE 2.2.beta1 -- at least KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees.
Im sure the bean counters will like this. I hate to defend Microsoft, but this is some slick work actually. At work we considered not upgrading 100+ PCs next quarter because of this years budget and I know we werent alone. Im curious as to the reaction come Monday at work.
:/
Like them or not, Microsoft does know how to work the beancounters..something KDE and GNOME really cant do yet.
,
faeryman
"Wait.. we have to pay how much?!?!"
"Press any key to begin."
"Press any key to begin."
"AnyKey? Where's the AnyKey?" - Homer J. Simpson
If the threat of the DOJ and the possible British anti-trust trials aren't enough to make them stop the insanity, at least something they have showed signs of fearing should. Oh well, a guess a leopard really can't ever change his spots
Personally I would pay good money if Apple would come out with MacOS X for Intel. It wouldn't be that hard with Darwin already ported, and with Mac's ease of use, AND the power of UNIX, I imagine alot of companies and indeed average Joe Schmoes would choose MacOS over Windows.
Isn't the whole idea of Ximian based on charging subscription fees for software services?
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
The Gnome people are going to think slashdot is promoting KDE and are going to be bitching:)
The Microsoft Algorithm:
Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
Correction: they have stolen/borrowed/appropriated some really tight ideas... the only idea I know that was actually original to the boyz in Redmond was Bob... can anybody think of any others?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Outstanding. Public opinion does have at least a little power... the more crap they do that gets exposed, the more outcry, and the more they have to back off. Not only that, but now the average (Tom/Dick/Harry/insert a female name here too if it smokes your shorts) is starting to hear about the evil side of M$ as well. About time.
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Skivvy Niner? Email me!
HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
""Never in my career have I seen the customer base so angry at Microsoft," says Rob Enderle, an analyst with the Giga Information Group. "They were calling Microsoft things you wouldn't want your family to hear."
Obviously not a visitor of Slashdot, now is he?
There are many organizations who haven't yet fully deployed Win2k and have no plans to deploy XP. The 4 year cycle cited in the CNN story sounded typical. The outfit I work for probably won't be in a position to deploy XP for at least a couple more years. The developers despise using NT/2k. A skunkworks development environment already exists using non-MS OSes. If MS turns the thumb screws, things could get interesting.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
are they just allowing *ALL* companies (except those w/the obvious resources to handle the new licenses) to wait a year?
I honestly never thought that MS would go quite this psycho on licensing...
Did you?
Speaking of .NET, would you trust Microsoft with your data?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Unfortunately, I don't think that this really changes anything. Microsoft, for all we bash them here, is not stupid. Stupid companies go out of business. They may have shady business practices, they may not make the greatest software, but they are certainly not the imbeciles we often make them out to be.
My guess is that they are doing this in order to gauge the marketplace reaction to their subscription model. Many people don't feel the need to upgrade, and it's possible they've got something under their belt that will change that in the next year (or at least they hope it will change).
KDE is certainly nice, but for your average Joe Sixpack, it still isn't quite there, and corporations already have a huge installed workforce already trained and familiar with Windows. It will take Microsoft driving customers away (already begun) in combination with the maturation of one or both of Linux's desktop systems to really get things moving. Much of the software already exists, but the user base simply does not.
This creates an unfortunate Catch-22, because many pieces of software are useful, but are certainly not polished for the masses, because the user base isn't large - and the user base isn't large because the software is not polished.
One thing that Linux on the desktop needs more than anything else is a standard look and feel. Diversity is certainly a good thing, but it's hard to explain that to someone who has to learn a different set of menus for every single piece of software that they want to use.
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"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
It really does leave you looking for alternatives. At universities, often many labs are used for students to log into some web based instructional tools and to print up papers. It makes you seriously think about the viability of a lab with Linux, StarOffice, and Mozilla or Konqueror. I know in many states there have been budget cut backs and it leaves you wondering if it is best to completely avoid these types of Microsoft agreements. As all budgeting takes quite a bit of planning and red tape, this type of shifting of licensing agreements is a little scary. Does anyone know of any universities that actually use a set up like the one mentioned above?
bbh
Stolen or not, they've created for themselves the largest software user base ever. That is an incredibly difficult battle to fight. Linux as a desktop OS has a ways to go before it fully matures, and I fear that it will take something a monumentally stupid act on Microsoft's part to help this come about (I was hoping this subscription thing would start it. Who knows, maybe it still will...)
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"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Sounds like Slashdot might be forced to remove your message because it looks like a copyright violation from one of Microsoft's advertising brochures.
Except that it's true. This has always been Microsoft's strategy as long as I've been watching them and I've been watching them as long as they've been around. Back before it was Linux it was OS/2 and before OS/2 it was DR DOS. They have a similar strategy that goes "code something nasty" "Did we get caught" "OH SHIT! WE GOT CAUGHT!" "Deny Everything" "Repeat"
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Clearly Microsoft has been using the press to float trial balloons about controversial policies. Instead of discussing the policy with customers (like a company that doesn't have a monopoly has to), they formulate a Machiavellian policy, float it in the press, and watch the firestorm. If it looks politically manageable, they proceed. If not, they repeal it as a misunderstanding.
Ziff-Davis had a story that described how Microsoft had to back off of SmartTags and their upgrade policy. Remember when Microsoft spammed their users (Infoworld, 1999) to encourage them to write to congress to promote their "freedom to innovate"? On the other hand, they're policy to rent software was a miss in 1997, but they're doing it now with Office XP.
The result is that, these policies get postponed, but Microsoft just keeps trying. Either they're waiting for people not to notice an especially odious policy (or to be too jaded to care), or for their monopoly power to be so entrenched that it doesn't matter anyway.
I'd like to think that this is an example of the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. I suspect another expression will sadly become more appropriate; To paraphrase Mel Brooks, "It's good to be a monopoly."
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
well, I can tell you at my office we are seriously considering offering Linux desktops as a choice for our developers. We would never try to get everyone to switch, but people who use Linux at home and are already familiar with it would jump at the chance!
We are still testing W2K server options and the new licensing is really pissing off the money people.
Since our databse solution is probably going to move away from SQL anyway, these annoying license practices are just another nudge to start getting rid of as many new Windows (server and workstation) licenses as possible right from the start.
I wonder how many companies (small companies, most likely!) are considering the same thing?
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"It was people! People soiled our green!"
Eventually, yes. Microsoft appears to my naive eyes to be getting stupider by the minute (this brain-drain is to be expected; with stock price dropping, stock options are worthless, and the better employees are jumping ship in droves). Just because they haven't gone out of business yet doesn't mean they're not stupid...
Let's see here... Micrsoft stock plumented from $115 to to $40 during 2000... and that was before the economic slowdown. Seems like somebody must have been doing something stupid somewhere! Think Ballmer's so smart? Any CEO that would announce in public that their companies stock is massively overvalued SHOULD have been dismissed immediately by the board of directors. Only in a situation where his personal friend control most of the stock would he be allowed to stay on. Think Microsoft Bob and the talking paperclip were smart ideas?
Yes, the cost of training users on a new interface is expensive (~$2000/seat). That's why I keep insisting that Microsoft owns the desktop, but Linux will take over the server and embedded markets, where retraining is not an issue. On the desktop, KDE can still win if it keeps a consistent user interface while Microsoft completely changes their interface from one OS release to the next, making it cheaper to retrain employees on KDE once, rather than every time Redmond tries to shove a new OS down thier throats...
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
News from the front of the war for the future of computing is boring?
What business are you in?
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
at least KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees
KDE and Gnome? Are you suggesting business actually RUN KDE and Gnome? You are kidding, right? OK business world: Go install KDE on everybody's desk and watch your business crumble. Get real folks. KDE and Gnome are nice for the tech crowd but they ain't for the business crowd. The licensing is attractive, but whaddya expect for nothing. Mac OS X perhaps, assuming you can get the apps you need to run on that platform. But KDE and Gnome? I think not. For more businesses than not, Windows is still the only realistic option. Could Microsoft get away with this highway robbery if it weren't?
I have heard that Microsoft's original intentions were to only offer the liscensing scheme to the general business community in the initial Phase of the "Subscription" model.
/* Dammit Jim!!!! I'm a Doctor not a miracle worker! */
Does anyone out there know if there original plans also including the public masses from the get go? Or was that something that was supposed to happen down the road.
FYI...
I worked on a project recently that was for Puerto Rico. MS had offered them an unlimited ala cart of OSes (NT server and Workstation in fact) as a donation. The project was for the National Police dept. Would be nice to see MS offering those kinds of deals to the masses. (That is if you like working with MS products.)
Cal
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Sure, give me also 16 years to reach where they have reached, to work at their terms (exclusive licensing deals which are legally questionable), money, and good sales people - and I'll get there..
People always seems to forget how much Linux has been progressed.
Go ahead - search on your CD archive or get Redhat 4.2, SuSE 4.0, Slackware 2.0 - and install it, see what applications you got (without upgrading to today's libs) and you can see how much Linux has been progressed..
So sure, Linux won't get the desktop market tommorow - KDE and Gnome will get much more mature, and at the end, one of them will be dominant wether you like it or not, companies will get into one standard (as crappy as the standard will be), and there will be apps and Linux will get a bigger desktop market share.
I hardly think it will take MS share, but I belive it will get a good hold within 2-3 years, which is a long time to make Linux more mature and friendly to newbies...
Hetz (Heunique)
Yes, but Linux as a server OS and Linux as an embedded OS is already kicking Microsoft's ass... do desktops really have a future, or will 95% of PCs be replaced by embedded devices (e.g. web pads) ten years from now? Having a lock on the buggy whip industry doesn't do you very much good when everyone is buying cars... look at Novell, for example -- how much good is the fact that they used to control 75% of the NOS market doing them now?
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Last time somebody "granted" me a reprieve was when I paid my taxes late, and it was the government. Am I the only one who has the distinct feeling that Microsoft takes itself for a state within the state ?
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
I haven't delved much into the new licensing except for what is in the article. This sounds like mainframe software licensing where after the initial cost you pay a yearly maintenance fee. If you pay the maintenance fee then upgrades are no extra charge. Large IT (mainframe) shops are used to this. This actually helps them in allowing each user to keep current. In my group at work, different combinations (95/97/2000,etc.) of office are in use and sometimes there are problems when opening files. If we were on the same versions, then we wouldn't have the problems. The big cost in the upgrades will not actually be the software, it will be number of hours you pay someone to perform the upgrades. Upgrading a few mainframes is nothing compared to upgrading 5,000-10,000 PCs. Just my 2 cents.
The next time you sit down to your Windows PC at work, remember that these sorts of licensing fiascos cost your company real cash.
The company has to make up for the increase in expenses somehow, and we all know how most companies are doing that these days.
makes my business professors argument that Microsoft has in no way hurt business.
The protests over Software Assurance arose because the program and the 2001 deadline to enroll were announced after enterprises had set budgets for this year. That meant enterprises likely had to either raid existing budgets or trim workforce to enroll.
If companies are laying people off just so they can afford the new Microsoft license system it is a sure sign that companies are being hurt by Microsoft's monopoly.
I am sure this is an extreme example, but even still, it makes you think..
Granted they're offering individuals a free trial subscription, but RedHat Network is charging a subscription feefor their Software Manager service. Pricing starts at $19.95/month for individual systems, with volume discounts of $990/year for 10 systems. That's the sort of money Microsoft is asking, is it not?
And then ... the pitch: "Tired of being pushed around by your software? There's an alternative ..."
> "Microsoft is saying 'we made a mistake,'" says
> Chris LeTocq, principal analyst with Guernsey
> Research. "They listened to IT executives."
> Those executives were saying they could not
> afford the new licensing model this year.
Any IT manager out there worth his or her salt should ask Microsoft for an extension, begging and pleading for time. Then immediately put together a task force to reduce their company's dependance on Microsoft's products. Maybe not completely (they do have a monopoly, you know), but be able to put your company in a position where you have a second vendor for any product Microsoft makes. That way you have a second vendor to keep Microsoft honest. That means instigating policies such as "all company documents should be stored in an open format like RTF or even PDF, but not like DOC."
That way, the next time Microsoft floats a trial balloon, your company can have a credible alternative to give Microsoft in response.
Remember, your first responsibility is to honor your fiduciary duty to your company's shareholders, not to Microsoft. A simple concept, but something overlooked in all companies I've worked for.
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
Can this complexity be hidden from your average user, and if so, how well can this be done?
There have already been several important steps towards this goal, but we are still a long way off. Until your average user can boot up, scan a few pictures or plug in a USB digital camera and easily e-mail them to the kids or grandma or what have you, Linux will not have the strength for a head-to-head battle with Windows.
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"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
"...the forces of good gathered in silence and in might. The dark one never saw it coming. The small victories stroked his arrogance and he in turn let down his guard.
The forces of good came from all sides and vanquished the mighty dark lord called Microsoft..." -Snowbeam, 2001
Microsoft has had so much flak from us, that they've profitted from the bad press. Now that the criticism has slowed down, they are creating their own havoc with things like this licensing model that in the end they'll be the key to their own doom.
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I work for a DoD contractor. We build datawarehouses. We play with BETA's. We are a real company that makes a profit. You don't know what the hell you are talking about...
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"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
"Microsquish"
"...can shove it up Balmer's.."
"We need some ALTURNATIVES"
and most importanly:
"if only Linux was viable on the desktop"
I'm not making this up. Another concern was that the whole IT department would have to be re-trained for linux, in addition to a lot of other people, which would be very expensive. Someone quietly noted that it'd be cheaper than $10 to $20 MILLION in microsoft taxes. Someone else mentioned that the dep. of defence is moving over to linux (see, sometimes it's GOOD when people don't read the whole article). In case anyone had any doubts, there IS interest at the enterprise level.
I probably shouldn't be posting this, but if it gives a few developers the extra motivation to hurry up and produce a 'consumer' linux...
I'd put my money where my mouth is, and pitch in, except I'm working full time and working on an engineering degree at night...so no flames please.
> Microsoft has pushed back the deadlines for
> enrollment to its new licensing program by five
> months
You got an extension this time, but if you're late again, they're going to have to break your legs!
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
Perhaps some of those companies would be interested in the new KDE 2.2.beta1 -- at least KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees.
Yeah, I bet they are fighting with each other to make all of their investment in software and training worthless...
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
can anyone give me a good reason why anyone should upgrade to XP? win2k is ok
You forget, Taco will not remove posts at Microsoft's request. At the request of the Church of Scientology, on the other hand...
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
As funny as you think it is to post that, Windows 2000 IS EASILY the best OS I've ever seen on a laptop. Even most Linux fans I know of will agree to that.
But self-running where no user intervention is required? (aka KAK and BubbleBoy)
as long as they are not directly calling the hardware. am I correct?
Ah, how the heck can post #1 be redundant? Ok, in the overall picture, sure, it's stupid, but I thought each topic was supposed to be modded individually?
Minor quibble, feel free to fry me now.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I don't think that they planned on this, nor do I think that they realize how much this will hurt them. However, they don't really have a choice at this point. Microsoft has backed themselves into a corner (as far as business models go) and can't get out.
Open source would not be where it is without one very positive thing from Microsoft. They came into an industry which was dominated by players who were interested in selling a few copies of their software to businesses for several thousands of dollars per copy and realized that most of their expense was in development. So they undersold their competition in order to dramatically increase the market size and take advantage of this economy of scale. This tactic has helped to make the personal computer as affordable as it is today and such operating systems as Linux possible (the development of the internet has also helped this dramatically).
This model is only sustainable in a growing computer market. If the market ceases to grow, then it becomes harder and harder to maintain the revenue streams necessary to pay developers and still sell the software at insanely low prices. Microsoft executives know this and they know that their stock will tank or worse if they don't do something.
So here is their plan:
- Cut down on piracy. This helps with the immediate cash flow.
- Try to dominate the middleware market with
.NET (given that their plans to, in their words, "pollute" Java failed to some degree.
- Force people to pay them subsciptions for their software.
These strategies hinge on #2, dominating middleware, and I doubt that they will be able to pull it off because #1 will alienate them from some customers and induce a lack of trust and they will be facing competition from a variety of sources, both comercial and open source. So they will have trouble collecting royalties.Anyway, this indicates that Microsoft is becomming aware of the problems that it will face with these companies but still has yet to grasp its full impact.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Heh, well we need Microsoft too, without them people wouldn't be able to see the distinction between good and evil quite so clearly. Do you think there's any chance Linux would have grown at this rate without these guys being the way they are?
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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Under the program, enterprises don't need to actually deploy the software, but they must have the license.
It's a good thing that I'm licensed for Sid so that I can use my Potatoe!
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
listen guys, OSS is great, I use it for my all of my servers, and my database's... but, ya know what? Guess what is on my desktop?? Thats right, windows, 2000 pro to be exact. Ya know why? Because in general OSS on the desktop, is very badly implemented. Sure, there is KDE and GNOME, but think of what you have to do to maintain a working desktop... Sure, at first getting it up is easy, but maintaing it from the home users point of view- i dont think so. This may sound like a good/bad idea for you guys... but, get a central "company" (no, redhat doesnt cut it) that distributes a single distro of linux, get the KDE and GNOME guys together to create a SINGLE desktop environment, bind it to that version of linux, write *home* apps, that use a STANDARD interface, market it for the home consumer, and sell it for $20 a pop. If you want OSS to replace windows, and have true innovation, then do that.
Hmm, what would happen if M$ would treat their licences just as good as their latest software releases.
Life starts at the end of your comfort zone.
You have never run a MacOS, have you? (And not OS X, which is still getting its legs, but OS 9 or so).
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Nigga please!
at least KDE and GNOME don't seem likely to institute monthly subscription fees
But RedHat yes, and most software companies for that matter. Linux is now viewed as a commercial product and their's no going back.
It's not the subscription charges that the companies are upset about, nor is it about the cost of the subscription. Read the article again! The real problem the companies had was the fact that Microsoft changed the terms after they had fixed their budgets for the year and doing this sort of thing plays absolute hell with the bean counters.
These companys were already paying a subscription fee for their software (so they have the priviledge of upgrading whenever they want) at a fairly reasonable price (paying for the software about once every 6 years - a lot less than buying every 4 years costs).
This anger isn't about the new "subscription" model they are planning for consumer software. This is simply about changing their pricing structure without enough advance warning.
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
Clearly microsoft is in the phase of Deminishing Returns with its R&D effort. Linux is grabbing the low hanging fruit of Usable GUI environment, GUI development tools (Qt and kde designer, and Glade for gtk/gnome/python), and other things like basic office applications - word, excel, powerpoint clones (Just to name a few).
.NET is the glaring example of their new innovations. They want to suck web and back-office developers onto their windows desktop like a hoover vaccuum cleaner, and extend their developing experience with MS dev tools and servers for their High End OS line.
.NET, he's not joking. There's really nothing he can do to curtail the future cloning and pac-man like action of Free/OpenSource software. Microsoft has to innovate itself to future growth by locking developers into a development model which is best served by microsoft (despite being open). We will see if things like Mono and Java will offer competitive stakes on the noosphere, and I beleive they will.
.NET and shared source, with a happy smiley face attatched to it to stop the bleeding of MS developers to perl, apache, php, etc. It's not working, but I may not even be tracking their real strategy.
So how can microsoft innovate to sustain the lead it has over Free/OpenSource software?
When Bill Gates says he's betting the future of his company on
Using Marketing to slow down competition, or outright kill it, is a mainstay at Redmond headquarters. Is Microsoft trying to kill Open Source or slow it down permanently, or is this all a ruse, while MS is off in some other place staking out new markets and lock-ins? Open Source bad, GPL is virus, Linux steals intellectual property -- meanwhile they come along with
It seems to me that MS is in huddle mode, plotting future marketing thrusts, and product innovations, probably with the sole purpose of cutting off the Open Source airsupply (developers). It's a mind game from here on out, but once we fixate an image to MS's marketing ways, it will be hard for them to shake it off. Therefore, I encourage advocates to point out what subtle deceit and lies are contained in Microsoft propaganda and marketing campaigns, and for them to offer theories as to what their ulterior motives are. A Frank discussion of Microsoft's behavior and meddling is what's needed to exinguish their attacks. Big voices carry a larger impact. And the recent IBM call that Microsoft is exhibiting extraordinary arrogance is most welcome.
There is a long-running debate about Microsoft innovation among those of us who are active in the anti-Ms community. Check out BMS's Hall of Innovation for the ones we found. There are, not surprisingly, very few listed on the page. And yes, BoB is one of them.
== Paul Rickard, Editor of The Microsoft Boycott Campaign ====
Mod einhverfr's post up -- good stuff!
This is not bullsh*t. I've found myself lying and making up costs for the software libre work I've been doing. If you don't have costs you get two reactions: they either write it off as some unsupportable nerd nightmare that will require three PhDs to maintain or they hit pause and give you blank stares.
This in an environment of severe budget constraints. You would think they'd be falling over themselves to adopt this model, but the fear of the unknown is palpable. They tell themselves that no one ever got burned going with MS. Besides, with the beast setting the upgrade schedule, they've got more time to work on their swing.
illegitimii non ingravare
one O/S to find them.
One O/S to bring them all...
And in the darkness bind them.
In the land of Redmond where the shadows lie.
In any event it's going to get ug-ly...
You're using her as bait, Master!
This guy on aim is hilarious, mess with him. He thinks linux is based on dos, and threatened me with "ok fine, ill come over 2 ur house and beat ur ass in then cook omlets on ur proccesors after i take the heatsinks and fans off of em, u like that 1, huh, do ya punk!!!!"
</lame>
Thank you all for your time, mod me down as quickly as possible.
Pointing out opportunities for anal rape since nineteen 'aught six.
So with companies wanting to push to a three year cycle, and Microsoft wanting everyone on a two year cycle, there is a little truth to both sides of the argument.
But Microsoft's argument requires you overlook the facts for an awful lot of companies. How convenient.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
You must be joking
Ok...this *is* offtopic (-1). But I saw some posts telling that KDE is there but not yet blah, blah...
I work for a federally funded program to improve Math/Science skills in 10, 11 and 12 grade kids. We also have a computer lab (read win98 lab)for rudimentary work. I had installed KDE/Linux on one of the machines. The kids routinely come and chat on yahoo and browse the web and write reports etc., on the windows machines.
I thought none of the kids would use the linux machine as it was *wierd*. But recently I have seen a girl who had been branded as *dumb* use the linux machine. I was surprised to see that she was listening to real music, checking mails, chatting on yahoo and writing a report using StarOffice. I asked her how she was doing she said ok and gave me this look as though I was picking on her. She also printed her report and just walked. Now other kids routinely use that machine also. They have actually grown fond of some of the games on KDE and now and then a fight ensues. My guess is a KDE machine with pre-installed StarOffice and working sound should be able to replace a win98 machine in public labs.
But their only complaint is no AOL....now I can't help it can I ?
Slashdot: Tabloid for the nerds. Stuff that doesn't matter.
But Microsoft's software makes one think. It is neither so externally elegant as the least slime to have been quelled in the depths of Apple's R&D labs, nor so internally elegant as the least of the rejected patches to Linux, FreeBSD or any other Real OS. In many ways, one wonders if Microsoft is, indeed, the Absolute Evil without which Absolute Good is nothing.
But I believe that after further consideration one realises that M$ is, after all, not truly an absolute ill but merely a very nasty thing gone horribly wrong. It does have its very few saving graces, however few and far between. And even Unix is not the absolute good. Our permissions model is positively antediluvian, to give one simple example (true, honest-to-goodness capabilities would be so nice). But for all its warts, Unix (the idea) and Linux/BSD (the children)--even Solaris and HP-UX (the natural children)--are far far better than Microsoft's cruft.
One can see that, as Microsoft has failed horribly to reach OS decency, and Unix has failed far less horribly, that we are duty-bound to learn from the lessons and mistakes of Unix and progress along the path towards true OS perfection. On the one path, madness and misery. On the other, freedom and frolic. Which is the obvious, and correct, choice?
One can see that, as Microsoft has failed horribly to reach OS decency, and Unix has failed far less horribly, that we are duty-bound to learn from the lessons and mistakes of Unix and progress along the path towards true OS perfection. On the one path, madness and misery. On the other, freedom and frolic. Which is the obvious, and correct, choice?
Getting a life, turning off the computer, and enjoying vigorous recreational sex until 5am would be the obvious, correct choice.
Alcohol and gender are optional; pick what you want...
Si
Coming soon - pyrogyra
but then I noticed it was just MSBob again.
http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/images/cfin0004b.jp g
on this webpage, both of which are an interesting read.
Point being, the cartoon reminds me of Microsoft Marketing Practices.
Check out the Vinny the Vampire comic strip
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Ahem, that's Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson. Kaplan is the guy who heard DeCSS case.
2. In lower court, challenge findings of fact and re-visit the "is or is not a monopoly issue." Mission: pending.
The appeals court has upheld the findings of facts in full, and most of conclusions of law. They completely threw out only the remedies portion of the ruling. This is what the lower court will now hear -- remedies, not facts. The ruling is actually pretty devastating for MS, but with remedies being retried, MS has won time, and time is of the essence!
3. In the public spectrum, declare Linux/OSS the "number-one threat to Windows/MS in the future". Mission: complete.
They actually put an even beter spin on this. Open Source is the virus that threatens all businesses. As soon as you use OSS, it infects your business and forces all your code ever written to be released in public domain. So the Microsoft parrot claimed.
4. Related to number 3, reinvigorate claim from first trial that "MS faces significant competition from outsiders, for example, Linx". See Number 2. Mission: complete.
Yes! But I can't help but to recall Ghandi's words: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Just last year we were at the laughing stage. Now we have definitely entered the fighting stage.
5. Attempt to put into the claim that MS can control market prices. Create an unpopular licensing scheme and watch customers revolts. Be responsive to those demands. Force the question: "Why would MS, as a supposed monopoly, be responsive to customer demands/needs? Answer: we have to because we aren't a monopoly!". Mission: complete.
While this is plausable (and indeed an intriguing idea -- I hadn't thought of that before), I doubt this is what happened. It is more likely that Microsoft simply needs to find a better way to milk their customers now that there are fewer reasons than ever to "upgrade". Also, this trick wouldn't even accomplish what you claim, since the appeals court declared them a monopoly (see above). If anything, it would actually strengthen the argument.
6. Brow-beat friendlier-than-last-time-around DOJ into dropping Sherman claims, plead guilty to minor technical infractions of business laws. Settle with a relatively minor fine to the Federal Government. Mission: pending.
DOJ already won most of their claims. Nevertheless, that does not prevent a token settlement.
7. Settle with disheartened states, perhaps filing a motion to break the class due to lack of a favorable finding of fact. Pick-states off one by one, smallest first with paperwork/smallish settlements. Mission: pending.
See above. Findings of facts have been upheld in full.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Oh that so grand. Someone mod this up PLEASE!
Silly Rabbit...Sig's are for kids.
Speaking of Gnome vs. KDE - what the hell is going on with Gnome? KDE is releasing all of these cool things and very frequently at that. From my point of view (a gnome user that isn't subscribed to devel lists or anything), Gnome is just sitting there like a bump on a log. Foo!
Mike Roberto
- GAIM: MicroBerto
Berto
Show me some facts that linux is 'kicking Microsoft's ass' in the server and embedded market. Just because apache has like 60% market share doesn't mean they all run linux. Even apache.org develops with and uses FreeBSD. Show me a product thats sitting in stores now running embedded linux.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Installing software. Until you are at the point when a user can click the install icon, have it install flawlessly, make shortcuts and additions to the window manager. Hmmm are they using gnome, kde, blackbox, fvwm, twm? See the little problems we run into?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
It seems as if M$ is following its own circle of life. One issue after another untill they can get it right and keep it out of the Media.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
I work from home and keep in touch with the office using GAIM. I've never had one problem. GAIM
Yup - exactly right.
Fear: When you see B8 00 4C CD 21 and know what it means
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Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Min: It was a nice robber-man, Henry
Henry: Did you tell him we have no money, Min?
Min: Yes, Henry.
Henry: And what did he say to that, Min?
Min: He said he'd give us a year to save some up, Henry
Henry: What a nice chap! We'd better get started; get your suspenders on, Minnie, we're going to Amsterdam.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
I realize that since most can't code, many of the Slashdot Hive mind seem to think that the business men that run their businesses are morons.
Ya know something, not everybody can code, but I bet you they understand accounting and corporate strategy better than you.
With a separate managerial ranking instead of promoting within the company, we do have the unfortunate scenario where front-line managers don't knows what their subordinates are doing. This eliminated the Peter Principle, but created a management vs. employee mess.
However, they are not dumb. Most of them use the features of the Office suite that supplies their productivity.
Guess what, your deal-maker CEO may not know much beyond e-mail and word, but I bet that your CFO crunches out spreadsheets with a degree of complexity that you don't understand. Maybe your administrative assistances can't code, but they problem use Outlook's Exchange support to administer their bosses schedule. As everyone is pressed for time, freeing up 2-3 hours of scheduling and planning is a lifesaver to 80-hour a week managers.
Your analysts may not be able to run a Linux box, but they can problem use the Access databases that they had IT whip up for their data entry personel to enter information in, and export it into Excel for detailed analysis.
If you are a small firm, whoever does your accounting probably finds Quickbooks (Win32 only) a life saver.
These programs are extremely powerful with acceptable UIs.
Sure, your random family with a PC and no real need for one (a bit of web surfing, e-mail, and the kid's school reports) may not need Office, but a corporate environment can really take advantage of it.
Until spreadsheet designers actually TALK to the people that use them, they won't understand what is necessary. Merely trying to clone Microsoft's means that you won't overtake them. You may become good enough for home markets, but you offer no compelling reason to switch. If I am using version X of a program, and X+1 comes out, I'll decide if it is worth it. If your Free version is as good as X-1, no way I'll switch. It it is as good as X, no way I'll switch. If you are better than X+1, I'll likely switch. If you come between X and X+1, well, I'll have to decide if I want the new features.
Guys, the costs of MS software aren't that significant per employee. Given the cost of an employee (office space, salary, perks, payroll taxes, etc.), the cost of equipment (computer equipment, furniture, etc), the $1000-$2000 in software to get them productive is rather small. Sure saving $500/employee for 1000 employees is real money., it's half a million. But if it reduces my employee's productivity a fraction, I will likely lose FAR more money in lost productivity.
For company's with 10,000+ employees, sure MS costs a lot. But what is their revenue/employee. What reduction in productivity is necessary to wipe out the licensing gains?
The real interesting thing here is that IT staffs know that as users upgrade on their own, they get a disaster. They also know that MS has them in a bind. If they don't upgrade, it'll happen anyway as a disaster. If they do upgrade, they'll likely benefit, but corporate accounting isn't that simple. Their department has a budget, a large change is problematic.
The problem is NOT that it is not worthwhile to upgrade, these company's WANT to upgrade. The problem is that the budget process has made now a very bad time.
Look, I love my BSD boxes. I also love my OS X workstation. I also like my Win32 laptop that lets me run my Win32 only applications.
However, the sooner the community stops patting itself on the back and starts solving problems, the sooner Free Software will make a difference.
Why should we win? It's morally better to let people help their neighbors. If I have software, giving a copy to a friend to help him out is the RIGHT thing to do. We want to win NOT to beat MS. We want to win because it will make the world a better place.
Alex
IBM is a huge company, and has been around for a long time -- and an elephant never forgets. Trust me, they have never forgotten the burn that MS put on them five or six years ago. The hatred is more intense there than it's ever been here on Slashdot. It runs so deeply that only recently did they start using MS software in any real capacity, and certain applications are still generally banned. Believe me, they are waiting for the day they can push MS out of their buildings entirely. And, they know that day will come. Not today and not tomorrow, but one day.
IBM isn't the biggest company in the world, but they are still huge, they have more money than they know what to do with, they have been down this road before, and they are just waiting, biding their time until the iron is hot.
It might be Linux, if this is the right time, it might be something else if this isn't. When it happens, IBM will be prepared, and they will know what they are doing this time. The attack will fast, fierce, and devastating. I'm just waiting and watching. IBM is just waiting and biding time. They've got plenty of time, and plenty of money, and a burning hatred. Awakining a sleeping giant indeed.
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The only reason MS would hold off, it seems to me, is out of fear of reprisal from their customer base. They need people to upgrade constantly, to keep revenue steady.
I get the feeling that the number of 'unnecessary bloated forced upgrade uprchases' a-la office2000, winME, etc, are starting to annoy normal people as well as us geeks... I know the whole office upgraded to office 2000 due to 'compatability' with other offices and document formats.. but nobody really had a reason for actually switching to office 2000 based on features.
If MS pushes things too far, they might just cause people to seek more favorable licensing terms, considering the massive change in cost.
No mere employee of a company owes a fiduciary duty to the shareholders! This is flat out wrong. Only members of the Board of Directors of a corporation owe a fiduciary duty to the shareholders. Some employees may also be board members, but even then the responsibilities are clear cut and well-defined.
Fiduciary duties, as we know them today, are very important duties, yes, but even most management types do not labor under them.
In Israel, a lot of organizations (military, small businesses and some industrial orgs) don't upgrade as soon as a new windows version is available.
Some organizations don't even consider an upgrade in the near future at all.
For example, the military (IDF) still has a large number of computers running win95. Only nowadays new computers start to come with win2k, skipping win98 entirely. Who knows when they'll upgrade (if at all?) to winXP.
According to the article, MS makes sure that windows licenses keep generating revenues even if organizations don't upgrades every 2 years (which is usually the case for big organizations - MS main clients)
Have you noticed lately a lot of people (certainly all my friends) don't rush to buy the newest, fastest PC available every 2 years anymore? I had a 450MHz machine until last month, then I upgraded to a simple 766MHz machine, first time I upgraded not to the max (today's 1.7GHz) not even to the faster machines (800m, 1.3g) - who needs 'em?
The same thing goes for windows OSes, who needs 'em?
MS should freely innovate some revolutionary feature or a business productive feature or just an increadibly faster, more stable, cheaper, easily extendable OS before they demand subscription fees for their software.
I agree with you that there is no absolute evil in this world. Generally people strive to enjoy themselves, we don't chase pain and misery, except when we're fed up and sick in our heads. But that's not really evil either, even terrorists love, probably more than most of us, they just focus it in negative and misguided ways. Feelings of love can quickly turn into hate when we put conditions in it. New-nazists are often hurt and broken people, what better way to conceal it, especially to themselves, than to hate people? Our efforts can be so misguided sometimes because we're stuck in our small immediate world. We tend to favour short-time pleasure and long time misery over short-time pain and long time happiness. This is because we make too simple decisions sometimes, trying to escape ALL pain and misery. The result often makes us more miserable.
Which is the obvious, and correct, choice?
Any choice is correct, because it leads you forward in time. This means you don't really have to attach so much meaning into a meaningless thing - eg. what OS you run and how well it is configured. After you've chosen and configured, what's left for you to do? Do these activities make you happy? If not, don't switch OS or distribution. Step out of the situation. You cannot find perfection on the outside before you find it on the inside anyways.
So the obvious correct choice is to step out of what you define as yourself and make a new choice based on more facts and a bigger perspective. Enjoy life, even when it could be labeled as "bad". When you step out of yourself, you can watch yourself and those around you, laugh at the supposed "misery" you are in now and gain a better insight of what's going on. It's the same thing as looking back at a situation after 1 year, but accellerated. Why do we look back so fondly of past memories? Maybe things weren't so bad after all! Misery is only a state of mind, and so is happiness. Nothing can make you happy but yourself.
(If this is too OT, sorry. I just meditated and felt the need to say this when I read your post)
- Steeltoe
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/
Then the Japanese started to attack small businesses with cheap simple photocopies which you bought. Almost wiped Xerox out.
What a nice present for all those M$ pocket pissers. Whilst I use my SGI o2, SUN Blade 100 and Linux box, I will see those saps pay through the nose for that M$ crap. Revenge comes is all shapes and sizes, and this one is a doozie.
WARNING: This email was written on an OS using the viral 'GPL' as its license. Please check with Bill Gates before
Windows 9x will be complex, Windows NT or 2K will be able to handle it easily.
Nothing more complex than repeatedly hitting the enter key (or whatever key that was choosen for the moment, I think that there is C somewere)
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Two witches watched two watches.
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Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
I work for a DoD contractor. We build datawarehouses. We play with BETA's.
hey, that's great! you wouldn't happen to know where i could get another copy of "nintendo power gamer secrets 3" on beta, would you? i've been trying so hard to beat dizzy's adventure...
--saint----
Do you suppose the imagery from Monty Python's "Crimson Permanent Assurance" was tucked in the back of the head of whomever came up with "Software Assurance Program"? I don't think Janet Reno could have come up with a more emblematic name.
Full speed ahead, Mr. Cohen!
I'd like to thank Microsoft for all the help they've given us in this process:
- The Halloween documents, which gave us the heads up about that wonderfully flexible and open server platform, Linux.
- Attempting to use Java as a political tool, instead of focusing on providing customers with actual functionality. Of course, Sun used Java as a political tool too, but Sun provided value to customers at the same time, rather than treating their customers as expendable pawns.
- Sending out lawyer's letters to companies, including the one I'm referring to, demanding licensing audits for no apparent reason, and following this up with very threatening behavior when said audit was not performed instantly.
- Scaling up anti-competitive and anti-customer behavior to fever pitch in the past year or so, putting its business practices on the radar of top-level executives through critical articles in sources such as CNN and the Wall Street Journal. As a result, any mentioning in high-level meetings of reducing dependency on Microsoft, received approving nods without even needing to explain the reasons.
All in all, Microsoft, you've done a wonderful job. Your PR and customer relations efforts are as masterful as your software.Here are the details of the switchover I'm referring to, for anyone else out there who might want to do something similar.
Starting in early 1998, we began a redesign and rewrite of all in-house systems at a billion-dollar financial services company which I consult to on architecture and design issues. An important part of this redesign was to convert all in-house and customer applications to support web browsers as the primary user interface. At the time, the company was a 100% Microsoft shop, and IIS/ASP along with SQL Server was chosen as the primary server platform.
However, on my advice, this company used Javascript as their server-side scripting language, and Microsoft Java (J++) to implement business objects on the server. The justification for this was the potential for portability in future. VBScript and VB would have been too uncomfortably proprietary. In addition, I recommended that as far as possible, they avoid use of MS SQL extensions, and do their data processing in Java rather than in non-standard MS SQL stored procedures.
A year or so later, Microsoft effectively pulled the plug on their J++ product. Uh-oh, my recommendations suddenly didn't look so good. We now had two choices: bet the future on something called .NET, even today a proprietary vaporware product with an uncertain future. Or switch away from ASP and move to a more open solution, eliminating the pathological dependency on a single vendor.
We chose the latter. We evaluated alternatives and eventually settled on a Java Server Pages solution, using Javascript as the scripting language. This meant the existing pages required only minor tweaking and changes to wrappers to be ported. We switched the business objects from from Microsoft J++ to "100% Pure Java", which gives us a choice of compilers and VMs (Sun, IBM...), and as part of the deal gave us a whole lot of Java 2 functionality which Microsoft had been depriving us of, by lagging the Java standard by years.
Now, in July 2001, we have finally begun running one of our application servers on Linux, just as a proof of concept of the portability of our system. This has worked like a charm - a system that once seemed so reliant on Microsoft technologies - IIS, ASP, COM, J++, ADO, ODBC, MS SQL - will now run on most server operating systems, with any web server, with any Java compiler and VM (except Microsoft's!), and with any reasonably standard SQL database. A stunning turnaround!
I should point out that the applications I'm talking about aren't simple web apps. They handle the back-office processing for some of the most complex financial transactions I've ever been involved with, and I've been consulting in the financial services industry for 15 years.
This conversion has all been coming together over the past few months, so it's been wonderful to sit in meetings of company department heads and have questions raised about our dependence on Microsoft, and be able to answer by saying "we are no longer dependent on Microsoft for any of our servers."
The IT manager is even beginning to talk about Gnome and Staroffice, now...
Oh, I sure have. I've owned several Powerbooks, the last one ran OS 8.6 for several years. MacOS? It's a close second right now. The stability of Windows 2000 just destroys the classic MacOS though.
Three is the magical number.
KDE is almost there now.
When Kernel 3.0 and gcc 3.0 and QT 3.0 and
KDE 3.0 converge, you have critical mass.
Linux goes Nova and MS becomes mortal.
Just wondering what solution you found to run server -side JavaScript pages on Unix. I assume it's Chillisoft, but with Netscape's open source implementation, it would be cool if there was a more integrated solution with Apache.
Also want to plug JavaScript a bit -- it's a very nice OO scripting language for complex projects, even under ASP. Unfortunately it gets a bad rap due to it's client-side popup windows association.
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Reality: Bill Gates drops a fork in a restaurant.
Headline: "GATES THREATENS WAITRESS WITH KNIFE"
Global Planning (I get around in IBM, and worked there for a while) has not considered non-Microsoft platforms in years. Although you can get Linux inside the company and even a few Linux tools, the current platform is still very Windows-centric and will be for years, even if Global Planning acknowledges Linux as an acceptable strategic platform. The amount of corporate inertia IBM has to overcome is incredible and they started down the Windows-only road years ago, even though many of us run Linux, AIX or OS/2 in an unofficial capacity.
Though I use Linux as exclusively as possible, I have to admit that there are still a few things missing. There are a lot less things missing than there were a year ago though, and there will be a lot less things missing a year from now.
Oh, I'm not a zealot, by the way. I wasn't an OS/2 zealot either. I always told them I'd use anything better that came along. I jumped ship to Linux as soon as it came along. I don't hate Microsoft either. I just hate software that sucks and right now I consider Microsoft's software to suck more. If Microsoft were to come out with something substantially better than Linux, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat. Since "better" for me currently includes the flexibility of the open source license, I don't see that happening ("Shared Source" can blow me) but it could. But an open source Windows would suck as badly as the closed source one does. Fixing their stupid archetecture would break applications and dealing with the brain dead Win32* APIs is not my idea of a fun time. They'd need to come up with something completely new.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
If Microsoft dies, it will most likely be because of the new anti-piracy system that watches for changes in your hardware configuration and makes you call Microsoft for approval.
I think even the general public will get majorly pissed about this one. If anything has the potential for making customers flee, it's:
"We are sorry, but something has changed in your system that makes us feel you are stealing our software. If your use of the software is legitimate, please call Microsoft at (800) 555-1212 for instructions."
I know their language is smoother than that, but it's not that MUCH smoother, and people are going to realize this is what is meant.
Anyone who blew $500-odd on Office is going to be really angry at this one.
I just hope this won't make the next version of Office for the Mac, because I really want to pick up a MacOS X compatible version. Is there any comparable product being developed for MacOS X I should try instead? Mesa looks pretty nice, but that's just the spreadsheet component.
D
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I know of at least two woman who have wanted to introduce me to that show. Since I am incredibly lazy in TV terms, preferring to use it for watching my own productions, I have yet to see it - but it does appeal to the fair sex.
D
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Why do people still buy crap like M$? I'm not interested in BSD (even though it's more eligant) and well BeOS is nice but - just no wealth of support and development for it. Linux aint bad!
Uh, lets see Window95 - a beta for windows98 - a beta for windowsME - a beta for XP - a beta for Xp - a beta for .net. etc....
Or to be more direct. Launch program executable in Widows, program fails, Windows crashes-BSOD's, locks up = reboot = scandisk/norton scan disk for 5 - 10 minutes = pray the fs wasn't corrupt and no reinstall of previous registry (or the whole freakin' OS). KDE 2.2.beta1 - launch program from Xterm - watch script run - program fails - read start scripts - see problem where crash occurred - edit config - launch program - watch script - program runs, or if running program crash KDE then X restarts and back into KDE read error log - edit config - run program runs - no reboot (or if so Reiser fs starts up with no data loss/corruption). And I have absolutely no programing ability what so ever - I'm in medicine. Gee decisions, decisions - not really.
$350 for OXP plus $100+ for XP OS or $70 for professional version of a Linux distro - decisions, decisions? Decision made, Thank you.