Slashdot Mirror
Psion Chucks In The Towel For Consumer Devices
chuckT writes: "After a troubled few months, Psion, makers of the world's finest (if a little long in the tooth) handhelds, have finally withdrawn from the consumer market, and now appear to be concentrating on the corporate market. I switched to a 5mx a while ago, having used Palms, and loved the Psion. A beautifully thought out machine, I particularly liked OPL (the bundled BASIC-like language) and the fold-out keyboard. They had a real opportunity to be as successful as Palm, but somehow, being a British company, managed to cock it up. Bloody typical." Besides the loss of 250 jobs as Psion, this also sounds like a blow to Bluetooth, which Psion's CEO calls "late on the uptake and much smaller than anticipated" in the BBC piece.
> Psion connectivity is one of the reasons I have a Windows machine.
Bad karma for you. I exclusively use my palm Vx with a FreeBSD machine.
My 2 cents on the issue at hand. Psion are cool, but:
1/ They are more expensive than palm
2/ They are bigger
3/ They weight more
4/ Their applications seem overkill (do I need a spreadsheet ? Most of the time "no")
5/ Their features seems overkill. Do I need a keyboard everytime I use the beast ? Most of the time "no". Do I need such a big screen ? Most of the time "no"
Of course, this is dependant of the pattern of use of my handheld. But I suspect that most people would have the same kind of use that I have (ie: appointments, addresses, notes, map of town/subways, dictionary, repository of a few Kb of crypted info. Most of the content of the handheld is read-only. 99% of my use is consultation)
Sure, the palm is not the end of all. It could be a portable phone, a digital camera, a digital recorder, a gps, it should use bluetooth to magically sync, etc, etc. But does it needs a keyboard, a bigger screen, a more powerfull processor ? I don't think so.
Cheers,
--fred
To sell Shiny Toys to people, when no-one is actually going to starve if they don't have this week's newest and shiniest, you need a large population of stupid rich people with empty lives, who'll buy anything you point them at.
America is where that market is.
Bullshit. I lost count of the number of people who stopped that game/demo and saw some BASIC code, and assumed it was all written in BASIC.
The loader and title screen were in BASIC, the 3D parts were all hand-tuned asm.
Fucking archie bigots.... worst of the lot. Even worse than Amigans.
cos there is a port of linux to the psion 5 that is apparently getting quite useable.
I too have experienced hinge & screen problems with my Psion Series 3a. Although the software is good until 2040 (diary app, etc.), I feel anyone would be lucky for the hardware to last more than five years without trouble. When my Psion broke, I suddenly saw the one major advantage that a Palm had - no moving parts! Yes, the repair was expensive - and with Psion out of the market, the prospect of obtaining further repairs looks slim.
My biggest worry about any PDA now is not compatibility, keyboard, screen size or anything else so trivial - it's technological or corporate obsolescence. Once you're stuck with a bust PDA that can't be repaired or replaced, containing data in a format that nothing else will import, you'll wonder why you didn't use a filofax instead. I suppose at least Linux PDAs, once they reach consumer grade, are less likely to suffer from the latter issue.
On a positive note, the 3a is a lovely little machine with several features that Psion most unwisely abandoned or degraded in later models. I still haven't settled on a replacement; I hope I can before it gives up the ghost for good.
Ade_
/
Big Bubbles (no troubles) - what sucks, who sucks and you suck
There are rumors that HP Jornada will switch to PalmOS
---
WinCE 2.x and before was pretty bad, for sure. MS tried to duplicate the Windows desktop too closely and totally misfired. However, they totally rectified this with WinCE 3.0 (aka Pocket PC). 3.0 was built from scratch targeted for handheld devices and it hits right on the money. 2.x and before did have bloated memory usage, but I really don't think the same is true of 3.0. I can be playing MP3 files with Media Player, editing a spreadsheet with Pocket Excel, checking email, and even surfing the web with no noticeable slowdown between the apps. All on 32MB of ram. And considering half of that ram is used for storage, the device is really only using 16mb for actual ram. I know even at the high end, Palms only have 8mb, and this is typically more than enough. But try running more than one application. Or doing anything related to multimedia. Or a hundred other things that the Pocket PC handhelds can do that the Palms can't.
The Palms are just PDAs. The Pocket PCs are handheld computers. Big difference in capabilities, why shouldn't there be a noticeable difference in memory usage?
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
Targus recently started making fold-up keyboards, at least for the Compaq and HP Pocket PC machines. I wanna say that I saw one for a Palm as well. But regardless, these things are great. They fold up into the size of the PDA itself (well, a little thicker), and are quite easy to carry around with the PDA itself when folded (Targus even makes a case with a specific compartment for the keyboard). It takes less than 5 seconds to unfold and flip up the stand and connector. The Pocket PC connects at the top of the keyboard and then rests back at an angle against a little stand. This setup is *very* convenient for actual typing (as the keyboard folds out to the size of a typical laptop keyboard) and the stand makes actually viewing the thing while typing convenient. The *only* complaint about using this setup is that you have to run an app on the Pocket PC before the keyboard will be recognized and you have to run it each time you want to use the keyboard. I was pretty skeptical about buying a Pocket PC machine after the horrible WinCE 2.x devices, and I came close to buying a Psion 5mx for this reason. However, I am glad now that I chose the PocketPC/foldaway keyboard setup rather than the Psion 5mx. It has all the convenience of the keyboard (folding out to a laptop-size keyboard is a HUGE advantage), plus the better multimedia and Internet capabilities of the Pocket PC OS.
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
yes... PC based wacky digital radios for £200+.
Hmmm... oh and a really expensive universal modem.
and...
'S a shame, the Psion has the best agenda system I've ever used. The whole OS and bundled applications were absolutely superb. I've never used a machine I've loved and got as much out of as my Psion. Gone the same was as the Agenda, the chord-input british PDA of the 80s. That had some kickass features too.
Revo keyboards are a bit small and unresponsive for touch typing. On my 5mx I have no problems. The 5mx keyboard is a masterpiece of design, and if Psion aren't going to create any new devices with that style of keyboard I hope they release their patent and allow somebody else to create devices that use it.
~Cederic
Eek. Brain fracture. Nonsense spewing out as I type.
Sorry, I can only assume I mistyped when I was meant to be entering Series 3.
It was actually a Series 3C, and my father still uses it. My mother has the Revo I used to own..
~Cederic
However, you also have your fair share of good ideas, such as the Harrier and the Tornado. And the Apache that will be license-built in the UK is gonna go through a certain amount of upgrades also.
Heh, about tanks: The US M1 series are dependant upon the British Chobham armor for their survivability. Even the upgraded version for the M1A2's were made in the UK. The REALLY fun part is that the British more or less gave away the Chobham armor to the US(1 million dollars for armor like that is just peanuts) in the 70's, which shows pretty clearly that you have better stuff in the UK(For example the Challenger 2, which with it's upgrades has all the features of a fully tricked out M1A2, plus better range, better armor and a better cannon) For more information, read through the only objective sources about military hardware available to the public, the publications from Jane's, in this case 'Armored Fighting Vehicles of the World'.
Don't forget Pnuematic Tyre - John Dunlop (Scottish)
per mere, per terras
> as Palm, but somehow, being a British company,
> managed to cock it up.
I didn't know being a company that had a loss of $0.63/share, is at 8% of it's 52week high, and is being the target of nummerous shareholder is being lawsuits is a very sucessful company.
Palm is losing money hand over foot, so it's (sadly) no surprise that a company with less money/resources (palm has a $3B market cap) can't make money either, given the incredible economies of scale in the technology industry, not to mention palm also has the licensing fees on the PalmOS as revenue.
The ARM was originally a chip, not a company. The acronym definitely stood for Acorn RISC Machine, the processor designed for the successor to the Acorn BBC micro which was eventually named the Acorn Archimedes.
Just to let the younger kids know: the ARCHIE had a realtime 3D game written in interpreted BASIC. In 1987! It was absolutely awesome, probably at least five years ahead of everyone else, maybe ten years ahead of Microsoft.
dave
Almost every other country on the planet uses GSM. It's just the US has their own weird standards. Hell, I go from Oz to Hong Kong to Europe with the same phone. Go to the US and ... nothing.
dave
I eventually moved on to the series 5, which was also amazing at the time, the touch screen was a bonus with such an excellent keyboard, and the ability to run linux on it later on was a blessing. Just as I was really getting into using linux on the series 5 though my screen went...and I learned that the series 5 also had a problem with the hinge...but more serious.
Anyone who has ever had this problem and looked inside thier series 5 (or 5mx which has the EXACT same problem) will wonder how the Psion engineers could have ever expected the Series 5 to last after good use of the hinge, the lcd printed circuit cable is strechted and bent to it's limits every time the unit is opended/closed.
Unfortunatley due to the nature of the cable I could not repair it (though many have tried unsuccesfully see here). ON calling the psion repair centre for my area (Canada/Toronto) I told them of the cable but they would insist on replacing only the screen (the most expensive part) for around $250. This being this year and the psion 5 being outdated I could not dream of spending so much on it. I called other psion repair centres in the US and Canada (of which there are very few) but no one would replace just the cable.
And that is why now I have the iPaq, after swearing to myself I would never leave Epoc based handhelds and I would never buy a Windows CE based one. I bought the iPaq because I know Compaq deals with thier design defects, the only slightly serious one I know of being the screen dust problem (with which they will replace your ipaq if you are under warranty) and also for their amazing support of thier userbase (eg handhelds.org)
I contend that Psion has only itself to blame for losing the handheld war, despite having a huge group of dedicated followers, they did nothing to keep them (anybody remember the Series 5 promised ROM upgrade?), they do not support thier handhelds well and seem to ignore design defects as long as they will not cause trouble during the warranty period (All of the Series 3x, Series 5, Series 5mx have had a design defect related to the hinge), and finally due to their lack of product development (taking nearly 3 years to produce the Series 5mx from the Series 5 was NOT impressive).
To anyone thinking of buying a Psion, I think they sould be aware of the design defects before hand, and although Epoc is excellent, what use is it if your handheld dosn't work?
Uh oh, are the editors reading the articles again?
--
Is this the same PSION that was responsible for PSION Flight Simulator?
Cyan featureless sky, blue ground featureless except for three geometric lakes. Hills aren't drawn (you have to rely on the map to avoid crashing), and it's impossible to land. Also, the compass had 361 degrees.
Or PSION Chequered Flag?
While there were several race tracks, each had a featureless black track, green grass, and blue sky. There were no other cars. You could choose among 3 cars for yourself, but only one was good and the others sucked.
If they still have the same programmers today that they did then, no wonder their products aren't going anywhere.
Is there any possiblity of getting another company to recognise their wonderful products, patents etc., and buy them out? Otherwise I'll have to start stockpiling 5mxs for spares...
Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.
It's often called "The Morris Minor Syndrome". Back in the early 50's (and, boy, do I date myself) there was a British car called the Morris Minor which looked quite a bit like the post-war Volkswagens. Whereas the Germans gradually and incrementally improved the VW, the Morris was never updated and became so outdated it was finally euthanized by the public. (for instance, by the early 60's it still had semaphore flags to indicate an intention to turn rather than flashing indicators). British motorcycles suffered much the same fate. I don't believe it had anything to do with monopoly but, unfortunately, blinkered and incompetent management.
> Computers - Babbage, Turing (tho' Pascal, Aiken, Eckert & Mauchly et al all could be considered 'inventors of the computer')
Good grief, Pascal only invented a mechanical calculator; Babbage invented a proper mechanical programmable computer.
And the world's first two computers using the current stored-program architecture were British (Manchester and Cambridge).
Sad, but kinda expected. It seems people just don't want the extra bulk of a keyboard. I have to admit that when I replace my beloved 5MX it'll be with a palm-sized unit. I was hoping that when I did it'd be a choice between Palm and CE and EPOC6, which looked tasty, if a bit phone-based (see below).
Psion's engineers made great hardware, but the comapny had a couple of problems:
They saw the way forward as integrated phones inside PDAs and vice versa. I still think this is possibly an accurate picture of the future, but it took them too damn long to get anywhere. The phone companies they partnered with were genuine about EPOC's potential, I think, but diluted their focus by also partnering with the big boys, Palm and Microsoft. The new Nokia communicator is a sexy bit of kit, but it still looks like a big clunky 90's phone. Perhaps the true answer is a phone-sized phone and a Palm V- sized PDA with a PAN connection between them - i.e. Bluetooth.
Microsoft also got a kind of boost from the crapness of CE. TO make CE run well, you've got to make incredibly powerful handhelds, with big fast processors and oodles of RAM. This led them to a surprising market in the "worlds most powerful PDA" area - e.g. IpaQ.
And palm is palm; the best OS for a "connected organizer" if that's what you want, and not a full pocket sized computer - which is where the 5MX lived.
The Revo fell between market segments. Their aim was a product for people who - like me - found the 5MX too bulky. But it still wasn't as small as a Visor edge.
Psion will still make hardware I guess- their industrial hand-helds make a tidy living for them. But it is a little sad. Now the onus is on you open source people to go against CE as the people who make real pocket computers. Good luck!
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
o British company invents a product. They patent it and start selling it.
o American company steals idea, and patents it in the US...
o Infringment Court case opens in the US. Being a US Judge, with a US Company, and the congressman suitably "funded", the judge rules in the US Companies favour.
o Theft of the product is complete...
Please provide the best three recent examples of this occuring. Be specific, please, with company and product names and cites to the court cases.
The OS sucks to develop for, unless you're starting a brand-new EPOC-only application. It's heavily object-oriented to the point that you can't easily port anything written for any other OS without a hell of a lot of work.
That's (IMHO) why the platform died -- the OS is too difficult to develop for, in this cross-platform world.
Anywhere in the world *except* the US
GSM is amazing (being almost as pervasive as TCP/IP) - just last week I rang a friend. She was on safari in Kenya chasing an elephant in a Jeep. Phone still worked. Last time I was on vacation (in Australia) people could ring me as if I was still in the UK. And this isn't just some phones, basically any mobile sold in the last few years will work anywhere in the world. Except the US. Oh well
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
How about a Palm m505 and a GSM mobile w/infra red? Works for me.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
... but, according to The Register, you're something like 12th in broadband availability
According to the economist UK is actually 20th in terms of broadband connections per head. Mind you even the mighty US is only 3rd (South Korea 1st, followed by Canada).
Well it can be pretty emtertaining, unfortunately the journalism leaves an AWFUL lot to be desired
Well, I think you'll find that he's Scottish. You also seem to have missed some pretty important other ones out
Telephone - Alexander Graham Bell (Scottish)
Electro magnetism - James Clarke Maxwell (Scottish)
Anaesthesia - James Young Simpson (Scottish)
Steam Engine (sort og) - James Watt (Scottish)
Steralisation - Joseph Lister (Scottish)
Macintosh - Charles Macintosh (Scottish)
I've owned Psion handhelds since 1992. I first had a Series 3, then a 3a, a 3c and most recently a Revo. Psion has had the best software and the best hardware for handhelds for the last ten years. I've tried others, WinCE, Palm, and at one point Newton and none of them compared. The original Series 3 had a preemptive multitasking operating system. I remember they days when I was running multi-tasking apps on my Psion and Windows 3.1 on my PC. Hah!
... the Infocom text adventure interpreter. I've loved being able to play infocom games on the machine in my pocket. How cool is that!
To my mind having a keyboard has always been a huge advantage for the Psion over the Palm. Taking notes, even writing letters and documents on my Psion has never been a problem. Psions have always had crazy long battery lives and running out of memory has never been a problem because their data file formats are so compact. These are really important issues for a handheld, I think.
The Revo was in a lot of ways a big improvement over previous models. It was small and sleek (unlike the Series 5), had a touch sensitive screen, and a Palm like docking and charging cradle. However in other ways it was a step backwards. The keyboard shortcuts weren't as good as on the Series 3 machines, which meant that you had to use the stylus (or your thumb on the screen). That's not as fast as using they keyboard. Also they messed up the calculator app, trying to make it look like a pocket calculator. The 3 version was much more powerful, and easy to use -- a viewable, scrollable, editable back log of previous calculations *and* results. Plus user importable programmable functions. Really nice. Other complaints about the Revo/EPOC32 apps - the Contacts database doesn't let you define your own arbitrary fields, and doesn't automatically search the full content of all fields. Those were really nice features of the 3 series that they needn't have abandonned.
Finally the killer app for Psion was always
Just like Acorn before it Psion fucked up the US market and failed because of it. And weirdly enough they did it in basically the same way. There's really only 2 things you need to understand to succeed in selling technology in the US, and yet somehow no British company has yet been able to crack them, even though both Acorn and Psion had ample opportunity. Those two things are: (1) market presence (ie distribution & advertizing) and (2) price. You've got to be cheaper than the competition. That sounds basic, but somehow its hard to grasp. I think part of the problem is that in Britain you can get away with selling a better product at a higher price. So British companies export to America, which increases the price further, and then wonder why no one's buying. Well, the answer is because Americans buy the thing that works at the cheapest price. And if you're not the cheapest you won't succeed.
So there it is. Psion got creamed by Palm, even though for many people the Psions were better products, and even though (for a good time) Psion's were far more popular than Palms in the UK.
So what's left? Well I for one still want to own the best handheld computer. And my spec's are prety close to the Revo -- a small clamshell, with a great screen and keyboard (backlighting would be good, color not necessary, more responsive keys than the Revo, please), long, long battery life, reliable. Good software apps, including a real nice calculator & strong encryption. The most important interfaces are for tasks and to-do list management (a hierarchical to-do list would be great), agenda and contact management.
The killer app? Unmetered metropolitain area wireless internet. Of course.
In a similar vein, the series 3 went from 3a to 3c because of the negative connotations with having a b version.
i.e. b is perceived as second best by many people.
www.vurt.co.uk
(Re-badged Psion Revo+)
U.S market
it's in my head
Symbian makes an operating system, and has sofar released Epoc ER5, Quartz and Crystal versions. (See Nokia 9210 for a phone using the Crystal version). Symbian does not make devices ...
it's in my head
The Web - Tim Berners-Lee
"Hey! I have an idea! Since we found this great stuff that fights all kinds of bugs, lets not let anyone else make it unless they pay us! I mean, so what if thousands die or live in misery because they cant get it fast enough. If it's hard to get, we can jack the price up even more! Supply and demand, yaknow!"
Yeah, right. I guess what you're saying is that Britain lost out because they decided to basically give there knowledge away for the betterment of society rather then make millions at the expense of it.
Perhaps I should immigrate there.
Why is it so hot? Where am I going? What am I doing in this handbasket?
My setup is:
- Psion 5mx running Opera (for
/. and such)
- Ericsson SH888 for connectivity - will upgrade to an Ericsson R520M with GPRS RSN.
- HP 215 camera with Compact Flash cards that can be read by the 5mx. Yes, this is not the newest model that you can get - but it was cheap.
- TomTom GPS with Roadplanner for Europe. For use when travelling long distances by car. Otherwise, I use a map (hint: it doesn't run out of batteries)
Linux is not supported but I can still hack 'cause I've got the EPOC SDK. IM is not supported but I don't use IM anyway so that's not important to me.But being able to grab a photo, chuck the CF card into the 5mx and fire off an email with the picture attached, all within 15 minutes - that's cool!
And best of all: I have all this right now :-)
My opinion? See above.
How is it that noone has mentioned that psion devices make really tiny linux boxes?!?!
Linux for psion (PsiLinux)
Indeed, if the Psion did have a weakness in the connectivity area it was just the reverse, they were too tied to Windows. Psion connectivity is one of the reasons I have a Windows machine.
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
Psion were the only people seling worthwhile portable computers (as opposed to souped up PIMs). Now I have to decide whether to buy a 5mx or just give up (I was waiting hopeing for a new machine to replace the 5 series).
_O_
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
...unless you had a Mac, in which case you still had to shell out 50ukp (70 USD?) for an adapter to the adapter and some really lame software, that was very badly supported.
Meanwhile, Palm support was integrated into the Mac OS. I still love my Psion, but it really narks me that I had to pay nearly 450ukp for my Psion 5 at the time, and the desktop integration *still* wasn't there....
It's not a surprise....
M.
Then, a few paragraphs later, it states
And the Press Centre part of the Psion website is, perhaps unsurprisingly, a weenzy bit sloooow right now.
Looks like the cash-cow products will continue, but no new PDA hardware will be developed.
Then again, with Symbian partners like Nokia, why bother to make the hardware at all?
TomV
Designed by the British - exploited by no one.
And the patents have now expired so go make yourself one.
try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die
I own and use a Revo Plus, and I think it's the best handheld device. It's small, when folded it's maybe 2 cm bigger than a Paml. It has a real keyboard (I always use it for writing articles while commuting). Very good GUI (the omipresent zoom control on the left is a must!). Software and OS miles better than Palm, with good connectivity (PPP, serial, IR), printer support, sync software. It also had good software like drawing programs, Python (YES!), PDF reader and so on.
:)
Also the user base was something interesting: we can say that if we compare the user base of Palm to the one of Windows, the user base of Psion was like the user base from Linux. Surely of an higher level (at least on the technical side).
Shame on you Palm, with your horrible graffiti
I don't think I'll buy another one for a while, or do you know of a similar sized handheld with a full keyboard?
In case anyone is wondering, that's because the Chinese character for "4" is pronounced the same as the one for "death"...
And Slashdot illustrate this story with a picture of a Palm...
Oh the pain, the pain!
The reason I bought my Psion Revo over a Palm was because it had a keyboard. OK. It's too small to touchtype, but you can knock up quite a speed typing with two thumbs while resting the machine in your hands.
It's a shame. it really is.
Hacker: A criminal who breaks into computer systems
"Information wants to be paid"
-------
"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
I resent that remark. I am a (technically oriented) business type and would never use a CE device.
Why? Well, easy. In a business context I don't need umpteen colors or a look and feel of a slightly monopolistic desktop operating system. I couldn't care less for an integrated MP3 player and I gladly let more gadget-oriented people enjoy the ability to play videaos on their PDAs.
So what do I expect? applications, like Titrax, which is a very simple, very straight forward time tracking application. It lets me feed the attached note into a perl script, which cranks out a detailed invoice (conveniently rounded to half hours) at the end of the month. I need simplicity. Fuck dancing paperclips that fly into my face (You seem to be looking for an address, do you need assistance?) when I actually want to look up a datebook entry. Further, I never want to tap more then two buttons to get into an application. And most of all I need reliability. I yet have to experience any data loss on my Palm Vx.
No, the palm type thingies are primitive and rediculously archaic and they might not be for everybody, but please don't imply that everybody is dumb, clueless or limited, who's job is not to crank out code in 48 hour sessions, high on JOLT.
TYVM
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
First I buy a Newton. They go under.
Then I get a Psion. They go under.
Maybe I should get a PocketPC next.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
TigerDirect.com
There is a war going on for your mind.
Of course the company would stop making PDA's 2 days after I purchased a Diamond Mako (a relabled Revo Plus). Oh well, it was only $99, not bad for a first PDA.
Jaysyn
first post?
There is a war going on for your mind.
I shorted out my keyboard from drooling over those pics and specs! Ratface! You should have a disclaimer before linking to kewl pics like that!
*chuckles*
Dang, now I have to setup my /. account on another system.... /. password...
If I could only remember my
Hmm..
LFS. Have you built your system today?
Maybe I should open my eyes and take a second look...
Thanks for sharing your setup.
LFS. Have you built your system today?
The way I figured it, if they can make watches that can act as a GPS, remote control, phone, or camera. Why not wait for the really kewl tricked out PDA's. The way the competition is going, it's just a matter of time til they roll it all up into one sweet lil PDA!
BTW, I also want soap bars with disposable clocks in them to tell me just how late I am getting to work.
LFS. Have you built your system today?
Well, the Psions are slick devices, but they had an awfully small market niche:
Want a device that fits comfotably into your pocket? Take a palm.
Want near-PC functionality to go? WinCE for you, which is also backed by a ton of marketing money, looks flashy (those hires color screens...) and appeals to business types (Hey, this is windows, we can integrate it easily into our windows-running corporate network)(yeah i know this is wrong, but corporate buyers dont know it and are fooled by the name)
The psions are really cool, but the market for freaks (who value programmability, long battery life etc) just isn't that bit.
Besides, what has kept me from using a Revo or 5mx is that the keyboard is too small to touch-type and therefore quite useless for me.
an electric guitar is a great stress redirector: it pisses off my neighbours but relaxes me sooo fine...
Does anybody know what they are selling now that their handheld division is gone?
The future of Symbian (their joint venture with Motorola etc to produce EPOC-based smartphones) is very unclear, and they havent brought any products to market yet.
And "corporate networks" does sound like buzzword-inflated vaporware to me. (Don't want to flame here, I just havent heard of the thing that they want to base their business on yet)
BTW: Their stock dropped just a little bit after the announcement, although they just admitted that their core market is gone. The stock market is really weird sometimes...
(well, it could be that analysts dont understand tech, but it could also be a factor that their stock is at an all-time low already...)
On the other hand, maybe its time now to grab a cheap 5mx...
an electric guitar is a great stress redirector: it pisses off my neighbours but relaxes me sooo fine...
I set up a small horticultural business in the mid 90's, when x86 hardware was still relatively expensive. I purchased a Psion 3 to deal with all my mobile needs and perform office tasks.
As well as spreadsheets and word-processing, it handled email through a vt100 emulation program and a script for compuserve (who, along with cix, were the only isp to handle such a beast at the time).
The included software was pretty good and it could produce quite good output to an HP600. It even did the camera-ready artwork for my business cards.
Of course with a 16-bit processor it couldn't be persuaded to run Linux - I will pick up a second-hand psion 5 for that eventually - but what it did it did well, without ever falling over. The calender app was very good too.
Sadly my machine died a couple of months ago. What I shall miss most is the shareware cribbage app, which was a lot better than the bsd-games version. Guess I'll have to go out and find some real human beings to play with =o/
- Derwen
http://fsfeurope.org/
Whence your .sig? I laid some ancient lines once...
information is immaterial
In other words, what you want is a Microsoft "Stinger" Smartphone. It doesn't run Linux, but you can run PocketPC apps on it, meaning there's dev tools for it bloody everywhere.
Check it out for yourself.
While a seemingly awesome concept, handhelds have seem to come under pressure lately. Their sales are slipping, yet popularity is rising... What is keeping the handhelds from becoming what it was envisioned to be, a usefull device in the hand of every person that does "everything".... in short, why are handhelds f'ing up?
"Pussy: You spend 9 months trying to get out of it, and the rest of your life trying to get back in..."
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
Brits/Europeans drive cars like the Smart and Polo, which are quick, economical and aethetically pleasing. Neither of which will sell in America. Yanks drive LandYachts like Excursion and Suburban, which are slow, inefficient eyesores. With far too much chrome. Sound familiar?
Even if Psion falls in disgrace, Epoch must prevail.
Symbian is pushing harder and harder into the mobile phones market, and now I'm waiting for a phone with all the functionalities of a psion.
On the other hand we could also use a Psion with an incorporated mobile phone...
Nevertheless I'll never forget the day when Windows CE lost for Epoch, has the biggest mobile phone manufacters had chosen it to be the OS for their devices. I rememember celebrating has the day MS lost it's charm, and the biggest bill gates flop.
Long live TUX!
I have been doing initial development of a GIS app for CE devices, and it has been slow going. It is my first experience writing something for the Pocket PC, and I have to do a lot of learning.
I think that it will take a while for the devices to stabilize and some useful applications for business to take hold.
It's easy to write songs, you just sit down and write them.
The UK is full of inovative people and bright ideas. I think it also has a reasonable number of people willing to exploit those ideas.
The problem is that none of these people have the great chunks of wedge required to get such an initiative off the ground. The people who do want nothing to do with an unproven start-up.
In a 180 degree flip since Victorian times (when anything British was obviously and inately superior to anything foreign) British establishment and money-men are dazled by the green-ness of the other guys field.
(\/)atthew
I used to have a Psion Series5 and absolutely loved it. The keyboard felt great, there is excellent software for the platform (yes even Doom ;) and EPOC is a much better OS than PalmOS. The thing I found annoying was lack of free development tools. OPL was nice but I'd have loved to have a free C++ compiler for it.
My guess is in a market flooded with PalmOS devices and WindowsCE products they weren't doing very well? Does anyone know what market share Psion actually has?
Sorry couldn't resist :)
"(Z80 at 0.4 MHz with 48K RAM!)"
What a bunch it would have been at that speed, It's Z80 actually ran at a blazing 3.59Mhz IIRC.
C64's cpu did run at something around the Mhz.
I was relatively skeptical of the Psion units at first. Folks on comp.sys.palmtops wrote about its weaknesses, such as a mushy keyboard and weak screen hinges, which bothered me. One night, I stumbled onto Steve Litchfield's Psion site, and that's when I got an glimpse of the Psion organizer's potential. This guy wrote several interesting articles on how he used his Psion in his daily life, reviews of hardware and software for the Psion and on many other topics. The content on the site isn't 1/100 what it used to be (it looks like Steve subsequently went over to Palm's side).
Here's a link to a short history of Psion devices from his site.
http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/historyofpsion.htmThere was a vibrant Psion community on the web and in the newsgroups. Lots of Psion users were writing programs, trading tips, creating user groups. It seemed exciting. I got a second-hand 3A from a person off the newsgroups and for three months used it just about every hour. I liked the mushy keyboard. However, I wanted to do more with it, but the accessories were just too damn expensive. Psiwin, the windows based syncronization software was unreliable. Psion used propreitary hardware, which meant $$$ if you wanted to upgrade, like me.
I've used a Psion Series 3a for years. I've tried (and own) a Series 5, a WinCE palmtop, and a Palm IIIc. None of them were as easy to use and reliable as the Psion Series 3. 512k goes a long way on those machines.
I often wished someone would buy out that OS (SIBO?) and run with it like Symbian did with Epoc. Update it to run on newer processors, support Compact Flash, add a TCP/IP stack, etc. Build me a palmtop with that OS and a metal version of the Series 3 case and I'd even pay over $500 for it.
When you look at the OS inside the Palm platform you realise that people don't really care how well engineered the platform is, just how cool it looks.
The Palm V is slim and silver and sexy. The Psion 5mx is a bit big and bulky but can do so much more. However, when most people use their PDAs as simple diary/address books I guess that looks are more important than advanced functionality.
I still hope that the Symbian partnership can provide a viable alternative to M$ for embedded devices (Embedded Linux is also helping here).
If Psion sells the divisions making the PDA's, I would like to see Nokia buy it. They have the means to develop and market the devices agressively. I have always thought that PDA's is what Nokia misses. Sure, they have the communicators, but they still are niche-devices.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Would you like fries with that?
---
------
Sig
... I always liked the Apple Newton unit the best, it was very simple to use and had all the features I needed. The Psion was the natural sucessor for me when Apple stopped developing the Newton. - I guess I have to go with the Palm now, but one wounders how good it actually can go for palm with one of it's bigger competators out of the way. Beeing the biggest has shown not always to be the best...
"...but somehow, being a British company, managed to cock it up. Bloody typical." Is this generally thought to be a truism or just another myth? Why is it that the UK has a great reputation for innovating yet such a poor one for making any money at it?
Shoot some worms!
Go on, shoot some fish!
Umm i dont want to seem dumb but is this for real or is it a joke ? can you provide the link to the MS page (no im not trolling i am really interested)
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
I used to sell PSION handheld computers many years ago - still have an old one.
We recently saw a lot of people move from PalmPilots to the Psions and i have one on my desk (supporting them means i need one - thats what i say anyway) and have found it to be great.
The sad thing is this is another nail in the handheld marketplace, another palm competitor gone.
Cant we do a linux based or GPL handheld PC ? surely it cant be that hard can it?
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
The first spreadsheet I ever used was written by Psion. It was called VU-CALC and it ran on the Sinclair Spectrum. (Z80 at 0.4 MHz with 48K RAM!) They also had a 3D modelling package with wireframe and (sort of) ray-traced mode called VU-3D. Later on they wrote an office suite for the Sinclair QL/ ICL OPD. And the Psion Organiser was the first real PDA. And then there was EPOC32. And best of all, the revolutionary idea of a PDA with a good keyboard.
And now they will instead be "providing digital networks for businesses." Sigh.
I have an S5 and it absolutely blows the competition away in terms of usability.
Lovely keyboard, nice big screen, good battery life, fantastically useful applications; I basically don't need a desktop PC anymore.
The real problem is your typical British management incompetence.
Deleted
Penicilin - Alexander Fleming (Scottish)
Also:
The pneumatic tyre: Dunlop
The telephone: Alexander Graham Bell
The television: Baird
The thermos flask: Dewar
Anaesthesia: James Young Simpson
Kaleidosocpe: Brewster
Steam engine: James Watt
Vacuum cleaner: Hubert Booth
Radar: Watson-Watt
There's more but i'm getting bored. With TV, telephone, the steam engine and pneumatic tyres alone, Scotland should be one of the richest countries in the world, but, no.
Deleted
Including GIS applications.
Free GIS applications even.
Deleted
Let's be clear. Compaq's iPaq revenue was higher than Palm, but by no means does this mean that the iPaq is the sales leader. Here's a link to the sales numbers for May for instance:
Sales figures for May
Psion may be better then the iPaq. I would love to own a 5mx. But good luck trying to find one in North America. I have never seen a 5 or 5mx for sale. It has always been a special order item (ie expensive), or, more often then not, a no longer carried item.
... but, according to The Register, you're something like 12th in broadband availability, and Oftel (the UK's "winged watchdog" for telcoms regulation) is asleep at the switch.
:-(.
So you'll get a cool phone but no DSL connection
D
(The Register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/ - a sardonic take on IT news from the UK).
----
You will want to use PLPtools to transfer files from and to Linux (and perhaps other Unix-like systems). It can NFS-mount your Psion disk(s).
PSION have some nice patents
like that keyboard
they are perfect for connecting to RS232 ports and sitting in lectures despirately trying to deal with the slashdot effect on your webserver through your mobile phone and a terminal
but remeber that it was the wavefinder that killed them kerbango was a cock up and psion did not learn from them
psion make alot of things for the supermarkets like you see those guys holding when they do the stock take so they will not disapear
symbian seems to have its head screwed on right so its not all gloom and doom
regards
john jones
That's The Poseidon Adventure. You need a large cruise liner patch.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
It's on its way to the States, but not expected until beginning of 2002 acording to this Nokia page (with specs and some nice pics too!)
http://www.nokia.com/phones/9290/index.html
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
For anybody interested, Psion's RevoPlus, rebadged as Diamond Mako, is being sold all over the net for ~$100 a pop. Travel modem is another $60 or so, and of course these things can talk IR to GSM phones.
Try, e.g. www.outpost.com, www.sparco.com.
Kaa
Kaa
Kaa's Law: In any sufficiently large group of people most are idiots.
Somehow I think Symbian is getting closer to
be the Psion consumer branch. Look at the
Nokia 9210, this is just a Psion Series 5 +
phone + java +...
What do you think?
Y'know, I honestly can't see why so many people buy iPaqs. They're bigger and more expensive than Psion 5s, have a lower resolution screen and you're stuck with inputting the data by pen. On my Psion, I can type with almost the speed and accuracy I manage on a normal PC...
Are that many people really prepared to pay more to lose so much and only gain a colour screen?
This makes me really sad. I _love_ my Psion 5 - it's fast enough, light enough, runs for plenty of time on the batteries. Epoc Office is really rather good, that keyboard is amazing and I'll never understand how they've made something that small that good.
It's absolutely leagues ahead of my old Palm III and I can't see myself ever going back to a PalmOS machine. That thing really felt like a toy, wasn't as well made by a mile and had far more basic software. The screen was too small to use for anything intensive and Graffiti was just inaccurate.
Sadly, this leaves me without a decent alternative.
I _want_ a machine with a keyboard, it's just better. No, a Palm keyboard isn't good enough. If I get an HP Jornada it's bigger, heavier and ludicrously expensive. I mean, I could get a Psion Series 7 for less! Look at them and you see instantly why people think Palms are a good thing
I can't use Amigas (well, Amigas with another 7 years of development ideally...) at home, soon I won't be able to use Psions on the move. Why do the good ones die young?
Greg
(Inside a nuclear plant)
Aaaarrrggh! Run! The canary has mutated!
As the owner at one time or another of an Organiser 2, Series 3, 3a, 5 and 5mx (currently), and as someone who dabbled in programming them in OPL, Java and C++, I'm deeply moved by this news. Being a UK citizen makes it doubly galling.
To my mind, the current trend away from powerful machines, with keyboards, good quality mono screens and sensible build/design and towards chrome/changable facias/built-in MP3 player type nonsense is symptomatic of the dumbness of corporate-types and affluent consumers.
Just my brief half-pence worth.
Rob.
That's so obvious! The situation with PDA computers today is same as it was 10-15 years ago with Personal Computers. I mean, you know.. microsoft domination thing and all that..
I don't see why PDAs shouldn't do well on the consumer market soon...
I'm really considering getting a PDA, but my main concerns are: Can't be too expensive. It mustn't be too much of a loss if I loose it throw it off a cliff or something like that. Shit happens, you know. Also, it must be flexible and hackable.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
I'm not buying a PDA until it can act as a PIM, Instant Messenger, email client for all of my accounts, act as a phone with my choice of service provider, Allow me to hack da hell out of it (linux of course!) and allow for various plugins like GPS, camera and removable media.
Ops.
AND check my /.
LFS. Have you built your system today?
So what country am I going to? That phone rocks!
LFS. Have you built your system today?
So... if they're dumping the product, anyone know where we can get them for Dreamcast-like prices? Wholesale? Better than wholesale?
--
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
This is, of course, complete rubbish. Psion handhelds have shipped with Psiwin and a link cable for many years now, at no extra cost.
Yeah, well I don't suppose you owned a Psion Siena that, as this 1998 PC Magazine (UK) review clearly states, shipped without any kind of connectivity.
OK, so by 1998 Psion did bundle very basic PC connectivity with some of its models (also reviewed were the Psion 3C and the Psion 5) but this wasn't always the case - the Psiwin software and link cable started life as an optional extra.
But isn't it disgraceful enough that, only three years ago, Psion were happy to sell a £200/$300 (the prices in the review are exclusive of taxes) handheld device without PC connectivity in the box? And that cost of PC connectivity was for this device was a bargain-basement £80/$120?
Is this what you meant by "no extra cost"?
Meanwhile, a PalmPilot Professional cost £220/£330 and the (at that time) new Palm III cost £300/$450. Arguably finer products with unparalled connectivity at no extra cost.Next time, check your facts before you start commenting on the veracity of those provided by others.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
I have owned a Psion Series 4, Psion Revo and I currently own a Psion 5mx.
They are fantastic machines, albeit with limitations, but they fill a market niche that nobody has a sensible entrant in: Handheld devices with usable keyboards!
I hate palmtops that you need to write on (graffiti, normal handwriting, whatever). I have bad handwriting, I'm very slow at it. I hate having to write things by hand. Notes, diagrams, pictures, sure. Entering in a name and address, the details for a meeting, etc, I want to use a keyboard - it's quicker and more accurate.
Plus the psions were very capable machines - ok, the version of Doom was limited; the speccy emulator rocks, nethack is fantastic (and you have a keyboard so its playable) and there is a lot of other stuff out there.
I wont go into why Psion didn't get market domination - other people are making that point very well. I am just disappointed that they didn't get a sufficiently large market share to justify additional R&D and continue to bring out innovative and cutting edge technology that makes me feel good as a gadget freak and also prove useful in my daily life.
~Cederic
For a long time, Psion had the handheld market sewn-up. Sure, it had competitors like Casio and Atari (remember the Portfolio anyone?) but no one who really had a well-rounded, well-supported product with either a software- or user-base to match.
But the one area the Psion was weak in was connectivity. Out of the box, you could not connect a Psion to a PC or a Mac, which meant all those names, numbers and address had to be entered manually. Eventually, the company released connectivity kits that allowed users to exchange data between their devices and their PCs. But at £50/$80 or so, these weren't exactly great value for money.
Then US Robotics came along with the Pilot, which, after various model revisions and name changes, became the Palm. Now, fuctionwise, this new handheld didn't do anything that any other handheld could do - to-do list, calendar, calculator, contacts, notes. But what it did do was connect to and exchange data with PCs very easily. At the touch of a button no less, out of the box
Meanwhile, Psion happily trundled on ignoring the fact that the market had changed and that users now expected PC connectivity at no extra cost. Rather than bundling the necessary cable and software (cost to them perhaps £10/$15), they carried on with the same business model.
Now when you have a monopoly (or near monopoly) you can ignore the market like this and just do what you want. When you don't, you have to watch the rest of the herd and, sometimes, follow them.
Psion didn't, sales dropped, the Symbian alliance lifeboat sank, and the rest is history.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
He was so embarassed by the results that after the 3a owner showed him what he had typed, he wouldn't admit how he had done and refused to reveal his results.
Styluses are sexy - tiny keyboards aren't. The 3a could be folded up and put in your pocket despite the keyboard, and the Psion display form-factor facilitated really good spreadsheet work (which it came with). For businessmen and women on the go, it was an excellent tool for keeping track of your expenses, etc. As a consultant at the time, I actually used mine to generate invoices (it could be plugged directly into any HP printer).
As a pre-cursor to Palm, and containing all of this cool technology, why didn't it rule the PDA world? Same old story:
- Poor marketing in it's biggest potential market - the U.S. and Canada
- No manufacturing facilities in N.A. kept the price too high
- Poor distribution channels in N.A.
Lesson learned: If you have cool technology that you want to be successful, you have to build it in N.A., market it in N.A., and sell it in N.A.Q.E.D.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
This is a real shame for the handheld market. Psion were leaders in this industry (in the UK at least, where for ages they basically owned the market, without the need for StrongARM [ahem] tactics).
Psion machines exude quality at all levels, the clam-shell cases are masterpieces of engineering, the satisfying slide as they open really does have to be felt to be believed, and EPOC is without a doubt a killer OS. (It's my #2 favorite, closely followed by whatever the Spectrum ran was called). There is no better way to idle the time away while sat on a train or bus than a quick game of Cascade on my Revo (that's one of the original ones, not the RevoPlus) or rattling off a few thoughts in the jotter or word processor.
That leads nicely to the keyboard, I never cease to be impressed at how easy it is to type on such a small keyboard, and sitting in a coffee house with a huge cappucino that dwarfs the computer you're furtively typing away at results in the most amazing puzzled looks from other caffeine consumers.
I'm just very, very glad that EPOC will continue in the form of the Symbian partnership, and that Psion will no doubt emerge as leaders in whatever is the next big growth area. If they could make the jump from the producer of some of the greatest computer games of the early 80's to producer of the best handhelds, I am sure they will be one of the best at whatever they next turn their collective hands to.
250 jobs lost is always a tragedy, I just hope that the people concerned find that with the skills they have, they are able to find alternative employment very soon.
--
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
Now, I count on my Revo for the next 3 years (ouch, synchornization software might become hard to find! Damnit!), but after that? I hope there will be *good* alternatives then. I mean with build in spreadsheet (I use that all the time, and Palms do not have it *by default*), and preferably with a keyboard. I tried Palms, even tough grafitti is fun, it cannot be used to write a 3 page email. (Yes, I do that, and yes I check email with my Psion by using my cellphone)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
It's unfortunate, but thats reality.
Uninnovate - Only the finest in engineering.