pardon me replying so much, but I work on Ciscos all day and am interested in any other players in the market. A couple of the issues I see are:
-- express/optimum switching. Here, we are using the first packet headed toward a destination over a certain port to evaluate through the router's access lists, and then allowing the remaining packets toward that destination over that port to flow through the switching hardware without being evaluated by the processor? Is a BSD or Linux-based gated able to handle the logical concept of flows to optimize access lists and route processing?
-- nifty features: yes, they're standards based, but does the gated gsr support soft inbound and outbound soft reconfigs on bgp? What about nifty things like HDLC, which beats the hell out of PPP. ISL trunking between your switches and routers? Fast Etherchannel? Fast drops on access lists, which saves immense amounts of processor time when you are writing a smurf filter. Easy disabling of directed-broadcast, while we're talking smurfs. Rate limits on circuits?
What I'm saying here is that a BSD or Linux based router is going to have to sell itself to a lot of people who maintain internet backbones for a living. It is going to have to have a feature set that meets or exceeds our current vendor's. While I can see the applicibility of a BSD or Linux based router on the low end, I have yet to see an entry that I would trust a nationwide backbone to.
You were led to believe correctly. The deeper question that yours leads to is whether or not any operating system's IP stack is up to speed with a custom-designed solution. Juniper, I know, is making some gigabit-class routers based on the BSD kernel, but nobody has been able to take away Cisco's IOS market share yet... is it worth our time to try to route with OS-based systems? Is a hacked version of routed or gated robust enough to pass 20 or 30 gig across a switching and routing backplane? More power to them if they can, but i have doubts.
Maybe we can use it to convince Cisco to hand out the source code for their 12.X IOS. That is some code I would like to get my hands on.
Unfortunately, the product doesn't seem to be up to snuff yet. No talk of OC-48 Packet over Sonet, or even OC-12 POS, no talk of GigE, no mention of BGP??? Looks like one to keep your eyes on and watch how it develops... exciting, but not ready for primetime.
Bah! I don't remember any floating dolphins in the book, there was no molly millions in the movie, and if I recall correctly he was trying to save his ass from the Yakuza, not save the world.
Since when did the perspective of commercial IT people make a difference in a price/performance analysis of OSs? The last company I [net]worked at was running an almost complete linux backend production setup on low-end (133-200 mhz/64-128M ram) systems.
Price/performance comparisons of the linux and NT hardware and software in this shop were at least 10 to 1 in favor of linux systems. We didn't have to pay massive licenses for the software, and it would run on hardware that NT would choke before it managed to boot. We didn't have to drive in in the middle of the night to reboot the linux boxes. We could accomplish four or five times as much on half the hardware with linux. Seems like a fucking cheap os to me.
lay off the crackpipe
on
Linux on CNN
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· Score: 1
"Add up the costs of installation, testing, support, training and the political infighting that comes with any new technology in an IT shop, and your total cost of running Linux is about the same as NT, Unix or anything else."
Excuse me? Maybe add up all the support costs and the SUPPORT COSTS are the same as anything else, but I didn't see any $600 copies of server software or absurd licensing costs in Linux. When was the last time somebody rolled out 200 copies of NT for $40?
You use the term us far too liberally. I personally don't give a damn whether or not Katz has done anything for OSS, Linux, or anything else... he's a writer, and if you like or dislike what he writes that is your opinion.
What has Katz done for us lately? He wrote a book, something which the barely-literate haxors and irc twits would have a difficult time doing. He wrote several books, which contributed to the literary environment of the US in one way or another. He wrote (peripherally, maybe) about technology, and issues surrounding technology, which is a subject rarely broached by anyone who doesn't have SCI-FI stamped on their books. Whether or not you like his writing, I don't see how you can discount the contributions of any writer who will try to publish "geek-friendly" material.
Oh, yeah, and maybe take a little less holier-than-thou attitude in your posts... as long as we're slinging advice all over each other.
Agreed it is a pain in the ass, but not impossible to cope with. What can you do?
Tell them you have an imac. Tape over the mac logo. Tell them you have a pc. Tell them you sleep with Bill Gates' picture under your pillow and burn incense offerings to the gods of intel and go on holy crusades to wipe out users of non-wintel hard/software, if that's what they want to hear. They don't need to know what os you run. Before they come out to set up your machine, they have to install a DSLAM at the central office closest to you, and wire your house/apartment. Let them do that, and then tell the software installer (i work with telcos, and can guarantee that the software installer won't be the same guy that wires your house) that you did it yourself... or that your computer is jealous and won't let anyone but you touch it. Get creative. Fight the power. F**k the man. Don't take no for an answer.
but if you're going to run something other than Gates' crap, you should be prepared for encounters with people who don't understand it. Why not just pull the MAC address off of your ethernet card, order the DSL, and configure the system yourself?
I ordered ISDN from US West, they asked what os I ran, I told them Red Hat, told them I would wire my house and install my network card, and have never had a problem with the service. You want DSL in Bell Atlantic's turf, do it yourself!
Underground optics are good, as are the thick concrete buildings that COs reside in.
What about the buildings that Mae West and East, AADS, and PAIX reside in? I have heard that Mae East is well underground and protected from this sort of RF attack, but what about the rest? Taking out Mae West would be enough to effectively grind the internet to a halt.
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A little more than processing OSPF maps is taken care of in software:
-Processing of access lists
-Managing switching path logical connections
-Maintaining all processing for your Interior Gateway protocol(s) of choice
-Maintaining all BGP route maps, route tables from upstream neighbors, route reflection client or server processes, metric processing, etc.
-Maintaining the master route table, where BGP and IGP routes are held and routing decisions are made
-Any and all network management
-Any and all console diagnostics, line card monitoring, environment monitoring, power monitoring, etc.
-Handles any high-level encapsulation, especially tunnels and encapsulation of Appletalk, DECnet, IPX, X.25, etc.
That strikes me as a little more than a configuration front end.
pardon me replying so much, but I work on Ciscos all day and am interested in any other players in the market. A couple of the issues I see are:
-- express/optimum switching. Here, we are using the first packet headed toward a destination over a certain port to evaluate through the router's access lists, and then allowing the remaining packets toward that destination over that port to flow through the switching hardware without being evaluated by the processor? Is a BSD or Linux-based gated able to handle the logical concept of flows to optimize access lists and route processing?
-- nifty features: yes, they're standards based, but does the gated gsr support soft inbound and outbound soft reconfigs on bgp? What about nifty things like HDLC, which beats the hell out of PPP. ISL trunking between your switches and routers? Fast Etherchannel? Fast drops on access lists, which saves immense amounts of processor time when you are writing a smurf filter. Easy disabling of directed-broadcast, while we're talking smurfs. Rate limits on circuits?
What I'm saying here is that a BSD or Linux based router is going to have to sell itself to a lot of people who maintain internet backbones for a living. It is going to have to have a feature set that meets or exceeds our current vendor's. While I can see the applicibility of a BSD or Linux based router on the low end, I have yet to see an entry that I would trust a nationwide backbone to.
the short answer is no. I don't think that linux would like trying to manage the cbus, pos cards, vip-2s, route switch processors, etc.
You were led to believe correctly. The deeper question that yours leads to is whether or not any operating system's IP stack is up to speed with a custom-designed solution. Juniper, I know, is making some gigabit-class routers based on the BSD kernel, but nobody has been able to take away Cisco's IOS market share yet ... is it worth our time to try to route with OS-based systems? Is a hacked version of routed or gated robust enough to pass 20 or 30 gig across a switching and routing backplane? More power to them if they can, but i have doubts.
Maybe we can use it to convince Cisco to hand out the source code for their 12.X IOS. That is some code I would like to get my hands on.
... exciting, but not ready for primetime.
Unfortunately, the product doesn't seem to be up to snuff yet. No talk of OC-48 Packet over Sonet, or even OC-12 POS, no talk of GigE, no mention of BGP??? Looks like one to keep your eyes on and watch how it develops
Must have read a different version, as the one in Burning Chrome had no dolphin, and he got whacked by a Yakuza hitman at the end.
Bah! I don't remember any floating dolphins in the book, there was no molly millions in the movie, and if I recall correctly he was trying to save his ass from the Yakuza, not save the world.
As long as it makes up for the massacre done to Johnny Mnemonic by Reeves and cohorts, I'm happy.
Since when did the perspective of commercial IT people make a difference in a price/performance analysis of OSs? The last company I [net]worked at was running an almost complete linux backend production setup on low-end (133-200 mhz/64-128M ram) systems.
Price/performance comparisons of the linux and NT hardware and software in this shop were at least 10 to 1 in favor of linux systems. We didn't have to pay massive licenses for the software, and it would run on hardware that NT would choke before it managed to boot. We didn't have to drive in in the middle of the night to reboot the linux boxes. We could accomplish four or five times as much on half the hardware with linux. Seems like a fucking cheap os to me.
"Add up the costs of installation, testing, support, training and the political infighting that comes with any new technology in an IT shop, and your total cost of running Linux is about the same as NT, Unix or anything else."
Excuse me? Maybe add up all the support costs and the SUPPORT COSTS are the same as anything else, but I didn't see any $600 copies of server software or absurd licensing costs in Linux. When was the last time somebody rolled out 200 copies of NT for $40?
You use the term us far too liberally. I personally don't give a damn whether or not Katz has done anything for OSS, Linux, or anything else ... he's a writer, and if you like or dislike what he writes that is your opinion.
... as long as we're slinging advice all over each other.
What has Katz done for us lately? He wrote a book, something which the barely-literate haxors and irc twits would have a difficult time doing. He wrote several books, which contributed to the literary environment of the US in one way or another. He wrote (peripherally, maybe) about technology, and issues surrounding technology, which is a subject rarely broached by anyone who doesn't have SCI-FI stamped on their books. Whether or not you like his writing, I don't see how you can discount the contributions of any writer who will try to publish "geek-friendly" material.
Oh, yeah, and maybe take a little less holier-than-thou attitude in your posts
Yeah, but he can spell
Agreed it is a pain in the ass, but not impossible to cope with. What can you do?
... or that your computer is jealous and won't let anyone but you touch it. Get creative. Fight the power. F**k the man. Don't take no for an answer.
Tell them you have an imac. Tape over the mac logo. Tell them you have a pc. Tell them you sleep with Bill Gates' picture under your pillow and burn incense offerings to the gods of intel and go on holy crusades to wipe out users of non-wintel hard/software, if that's what they want to hear. They don't need to know what os you run. Before they come out to set up your machine, they have to install a DSLAM at the central office closest to you, and wire your house/apartment. Let them do that, and then tell the software installer (i work with telcos, and can guarantee that the software installer won't be the same guy that wires your house) that you did it yourself
but if you're going to run something other than Gates' crap, you should be prepared for encounters with people who don't understand it. Why not just pull the MAC address off of your ethernet card, order the DSL, and configure the system yourself?
I ordered ISDN from US West, they asked what os I ran, I told them Red Hat, told them I would wire my house and install my network card, and have never had a problem with the service. You want DSL in Bell Atlantic's turf, do it yourself!
Underground optics are good, as are the thick concrete buildings that COs reside in.
What about the buildings that Mae West and East, AADS, and PAIX reside in? I have heard that Mae East is well underground and protected from this sort of RF attack, but what about the rest? Taking out Mae West would be enough to effectively grind the internet to a halt.