They don't a minute before they are born. Should abortions be allowed 1 minute before they are born?
There are other countries, would you mind every Chinese eat an egg for breakfast every morning?
It's called supply and demand. If there is a demand for eggs that exceed supply, prices rise. People eat them who can afford them.
Who talks about two year olds?
Please read the context.
You are not a woman and You never were pregnant.
Totally irrelevent. I don't have to be a black person or a slave owner to know slavery is wrong.
It is basically irrelevant for WOMEN if you listen, think or care.
For now, you are right, just as it was irrelevent from someone to believe slavery was wrong in the 17th century. That doesn't mean slavery was right, however.
They do with their body as they see fit.
No, they can't. Once they get pregnant, the body is jointly owned by the mother and child. That is simply biology. Since reproduction requires a host body, therefore, there is a natural right to the host body once pregnancy takes place.
Some people need assistance in commiting suicide. They need help, not necessarily on doctors.
Fine, if people want to create a completely different institution other than medical institutions for assisted suicide, I would be in favor. But the debate is never couched in those terms.
No, self-proclaimed "anarchists" typically try and find whatever political movement is opposite from whatever is in power so they can think of themselves as "underground cool".
But why at conception? Are the cells that join together to create this life at that point not alive until then?
Because that's where you get a unique human with potential to grow into a cognitively unique individual, which is why a sperm cell dying is not an "abortion".
You offer an explanation based on "Truth" while saying anything else is arbitrary, yet you offer no evidence of why your Truth is not arbitrary itself.
Because mine is the "least arbibitary". When is a cell cluster "self sustaining"? Should morality depend on technology? And what does "self sustaining" mean? Able to feed itself?
And yes, I admit I use religion as a weapon against the people who argue based on religion,
But you're the only one who's mentioned religion. Whoever brings up first is the one who has sacrificed logic in the argument.
Like I said, this is a difference of opinion that is really not resolvable.
One could have said that about slavery back in the 1700s. "You and I are just going to have to disagree on whether black people are really human or not. If you don't like slavery, that's fine, don't own slaves. But don't presume to tell me how I should think".
There is no "right to kill your children", as much as certain people want you to believe.
plus in case you haven't noticed we have a fucking population problem,
Uh, no we don't. And if you haven't noticed, birth rates are going down. It's estimated the world population will stabilize around 2050 or 2100.
who are you to tell a mother she has to keep a kid she didn't want/can't afford/will probably abuse.
Who are you to tell parents that they can't kill their two year old because it costs too much money?
If they don't want the kid, put it up for adoption. But it's pretty arrogant of you to presume to decide which children are better off dead.
don't forget that, you can preech birth control/absenece all you fucking want but teenagers are not going to listen, you remeber being a teen right???
It's irrelevent whether they listen or not. That's like saying, "You can preach all you want that teenagers aren't supposed to commit burglaries, but they're not going to listen". That doesn't mean we still don't put them in jail. Just like it's not the child's fault if a teenager gets pregnant. If she gets pregnant, she has the birth. A human life is worth more than her convenience.
again we have a population problem, letting people who are hopelessly ill and WANT TO DIE kill themselves would help.
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. Let me repeat that: THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. However, it's a HUGE mistake to give doctors a conflict of interest between saving lives and taking lives, particularly when we already have pressures to pull the plug in cases of organ donation.
All that matters to them is that when two cells come together suddenly you have a real, live, 100% human being, because they read it in some book somewhere and their god told them to.
Incidently, I'm an agnostic. Religion has nothing to do with this issue, although people (on both sides, such as yourself) use religion as a weapon.
I believe simply because it is the Truth. Life begins at conception, because it can begin no where else. Anywhere else is totally arbitrary. (And no, you can't use cognition as a measurement, because cognition does not begin at birth).
People get much more freedom in most european countries. Look at the Human Freedom Index [huppi.com] by the UN. Other Source here.
The UN is the last organization I would use to measure my freedom. That report is so overly simplistic as to be laughable. For example, they seem to think that fewer government demonstrations is better -- when the exact opposite is probably closer to the truth (how many demonstrations do you think they have in Iraq)?
The german highway system where you can drive your car without a speed limit ?
That's the one positive, but I was mostly referring to navigation.
Which is a bad idea, because it corrupts the medical community. If you want to commit suicide, go ahead and do it, but don't corrupt MY medical care.
legalized softdrugs
Extremely arguable as to whether the produces more freedom from the non-drug users who have to deal with the druggies.
legalized abortion
That doesn't produce all that much freedom for the child, now does it? If a country had a law that said you could terminate any child under five years old at the parent's discretion, would that make that country have more "freedom"?
They still manage to kill a foreigner or to destroy a jewish cemetary once month or so.
No one says that should be legal. However actions should be illegal. It's generally a mistake to make thoughts illegal. The US has its share of Nazis as well, but they are just laughed at rather than banned. Guess what would happen if they were suddenly banned? Right -- they would get power from the negative attention, and suddenly would become the "cool thing" for the amateur anarchists.
i think germania realized that in order to prevent anything resembling what happened with Hitler and the Nazis, the citizens must be free to think as they want, must be able to go on with their lives with the privacy and freedom that all humans deserve.
Ironically, you are free to think anything you want -- except if it has to do with Nazism. The Nazi party is banned in Germany. Understandable given the history, but German is hardly the home of free thinkers.
Although most younger Germans are very friendly to Americans, many of the older folks are downright hostile. If you start speaking to them in English, they walk away.
Maybe those folks didn't speak English? It is Germany, you know.:)
To tell you the truth, I didn't encounter any of that when I was there. The people seemed really friendly. Of course, I have blond-haired blue-eyed German genes in me, but my attitude still screams "American!" from a mile away.:)
What makes Germany less or more desireable for people who are concerned about their rights as they relate to technology, privacy, or otherwise?
For what it's worth, when I visited some relatives in Germany about 8 years ago (?), my uncle mentioned a couple of laws that I found absolutely astounding. First, it was illegal to leave your car (and house? Can't remember) unlocked for any period of time. If you are making multiple trips, you are required to lock the car between each trip. That's just the law (don't know if it was local or what).
I was also amazed to learn that you have to get permission from the government in order to start a business. You see, they feel that too much competition in a particular area is bad for those local businesses, so they restrict how many of a particular business type can be in an area. After all, they can't have a business go bankrupt! That might cause job loss (never mind the inefficiency that it breeds).
I've been to Europe a couple of times in a number of countries. There is no question that Europe is a great place to visit, but there's no way I would ever live there. They have absolutely no concept of freedom.
The US takes a lot of flack, but there's no doubt the US is the most free country in the world. Not to mention that it has by far the best highway system in the world.:) Europe SUCKS when it comes to having sufficient road signs to mark the highways. You really get spoiled in the US with 3 signs before every exit.
I've had a link to Raymond Scott's web site in my sig off-and-on. He's the guy who wrote so much of the music of looney tunes, although ironically he "probably" died not knowing that he was immortalized because of it! In particular, he wrote "powerhouse" which is the "mechanical, assembly line" music you would know right off if you heard it. He also wrote "The Toy Trumpet" and "Dinner Music for Cannibals".
But he's also an interesting guy in his own right. He probably developed the first music sequencer, and some of the first synthesizers. In fact, a young Bob Moog was inspired by visits to the his massive music laboratory.
I highly recommend checking out his site (although he died sometime in the 90s).
To tell you the truth, at first I thought the summaries were TOO good; I was suspicious that it wasn't really automated.
But after looking at a few more stories, it looks like it just pulls sentences out of the stories that seem to have a different point to make, and strings them together.
Sometimes you see some redundancy and some non-sequiturs, but I have to admit the illusion is pretty good.
Unless I'm totally off (which is usual), an odometer is really a tachometer, for it measures (sp?) a car's wheel rpms, perhaps with an added last stage to sum revolutions up until they make a mile and them zeroing them again.
Yes, you're totally off. A tachometer measures rotations per unit time. An odometer measures accumulated rotations. A tachometer is much more complex than an odometer (an odometer is just some gears and wheels).
I have a question to some air-flow engineer out there that I've always wondered about this issue.
Is it possible to use the temperature differential between the heat inside the case and the outside to create some passive cooling system? It seems like it should be possible to use the energy in the heat someway to move the air around.
Is there just not a good technique to do this, or is there some other problem that I'm not thinking of?
Laptops are a lot like bicycles: if you have a 50-pound laptop, it doesn't need a lock.
What the hell are you talking about? If I have a 50 pound bicycle, that's too heavy to ride away?
And 50 pounds of laptop is too heavy to lug away? Maybe 200 pounds, but sheesh I could carry 50 pounds under my arm (I am bigger and stronger than average, though). Not to mention a 50 pound laptop would probably have a handle.
Oh wait, it's michael posting the story. Never mind.
The site seems to be Slashdotted. But do they include themselves? Business 2.0 were the absolute leaders in breathless "new economy" stories, although I haven't read them lately to see if they've calmed down at all.
If you don't already know who I am, maybe you should question why you're posting here.
Sheesh, and I thought I was arrogant and conceited. Just for the record: Your name only sounds vaguely familiar to me, as a 20 year veteran programmer who has programmed in dozens of different operating systems, languages, and markets. Apparently you are the founder of OpenBSD. Well, I guess that's pretty cool and everything, but frankly BSD is below my radar.
Just a suggestion... you might want to get over yourself. You and the BSDs are just not that important.
Are there any hard-core Free Software advocates who are hard-core enough to boycott Google because they don't release the source to their search engine?
After all, isn't it your right to view the source code to any application you use?
And if your response is, "well, Google isn't an application, it's a service delivered over the web". Well then, does the freedom of an application depend on whether the processor is accessible to you or not?
...actually on the latest unreleased 5.6 sources, so MacPerl is the most advanced release of perl ever...
Good lord! The most advanced Perl EVER ?? I'm running out to buy a Mac RIGHT NOW.
I mean, come on guys... I know Mac people are used to being second class citizens as far as getting the latest releases of software, but this is just... embarrassing.
Every once in a while, the Mac community gets something first, and they start crowing like I can't believe. Have some self respect, for god's sake.
Slashdot Mirror
I'll agree with the fact that many who identify with Nazis are just trying to rebel against something... but how are they anarchists?
Anarchism doesn't necessarily only mean "a belief in no government at all".
Children BREATHE.
They don't a minute before they are born. Should abortions be allowed 1 minute before they are born?
There are other countries, would you mind every Chinese eat an egg for breakfast every morning?
It's called supply and demand. If there is a demand for eggs that exceed supply, prices rise. People eat them who can afford them.
Who talks about two year olds?
Please read the context.
You are not a woman and You never were pregnant.
Totally irrelevent. I don't have to be a black person or a slave owner to know slavery is wrong.
It is basically irrelevant for WOMEN if you listen, think or care.
For now, you are right, just as it was irrelevent from someone to believe slavery was wrong in the 17th century. That doesn't mean slavery was right, however.
They do with their body as they see fit.
No, they can't. Once they get pregnant, the body is jointly owned by the mother and child. That is simply biology. Since reproduction requires a host body, therefore, there is a natural right to the host body once pregnancy takes place.
Some people need assistance in commiting suicide. They need help, not necessarily on doctors.
Fine, if people want to create a completely different institution other than medical institutions for assisted suicide, I would be in favor. But the debate is never couched in those terms.
No, self-proclaimed "anarchists" typically try and find whatever political movement is opposite from whatever is in power so they can think of themselves as "underground cool".
But why at conception? Are the cells that join together to create this life at that point not alive until then?
Because that's where you get a unique human with potential to grow into a cognitively unique individual, which is why a sperm cell dying is not an "abortion".
You offer an explanation based on "Truth" while saying anything else is arbitrary, yet you offer no evidence of why your Truth is not arbitrary itself.
Because mine is the "least arbibitary". When is a cell cluster "self sustaining"? Should morality depend on technology? And what does "self sustaining" mean? Able to feed itself?
And yes, I admit I use religion as a weapon against the people who argue based on religion,
But you're the only one who's mentioned religion. Whoever brings up first is the one who has sacrificed logic in the argument.
Like I said, this is a difference of opinion that is really not resolvable.
One could have said that about slavery back in the 1700s. "You and I are just going to have to disagree on whether black people are really human or not. If you don't like slavery, that's fine, don't own slaves. But don't presume to tell me how I should think".
Well, you've managed to master all the cliches.
Legalized Abortion- woman's right to choose.
There is no "right to kill your children", as much as certain people want you to believe.
plus in case you haven't noticed we have a fucking population problem,
Uh, no we don't. And if you haven't noticed, birth rates are going down. It's estimated the world population will stabilize around 2050 or 2100.
who are you to tell a mother she has to keep a kid she didn't want/can't afford/will probably abuse.
Who are you to tell parents that they can't kill their two year old because it costs too much money?
If they don't want the kid, put it up for adoption. But it's pretty arrogant of you to presume to decide which children are better off dead.
don't forget that, you can preech birth control/absenece all you fucking want but teenagers are not going to listen, you remeber being a teen right???
It's irrelevent whether they listen or not. That's like saying, "You can preach all you want that teenagers aren't supposed to commit burglaries, but they're not going to listen". That doesn't mean we still don't put them in jail. Just like it's not the child's fault if a teenager gets pregnant. If she gets pregnant, she has the birth. A human life is worth more than her convenience.
again we have a population problem, letting people who are hopelessly ill and WANT TO DIE kill themselves would help.
THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. Let me repeat that: THERE IS NO LAW AGAINST SUICIDE. However, it's a HUGE mistake to give doctors a conflict of interest between saving lives and taking lives, particularly when we already have pressures to pull the plug in cases of organ donation.
All that matters to them is that when two cells come together suddenly you have a real, live, 100% human being, because they read it in some book somewhere and their god told them to.
Incidently, I'm an agnostic. Religion has nothing to do with this issue, although people (on both sides, such as yourself) use religion as a weapon.
I believe simply because it is the Truth. Life begins at conception, because it can begin no where else. Anywhere else is totally arbitrary. (And no, you can't use cognition as a measurement, because cognition does not begin at birth).
People get much more freedom in most european countries. Look at the Human Freedom Index [huppi.com] by the UN. Other Source here.
The UN is the last organization I would use to measure my freedom. That report is so overly simplistic as to be laughable. For example, they seem to think that fewer government demonstrations is better -- when the exact opposite is probably closer to the truth (how many demonstrations do you think they have in Iraq)?
The german highway system where you can drive your car without a speed limit ?
That's the one positive, but I was mostly referring to navigation.
legalized euthanasia
Which is a bad idea, because it corrupts the medical community. If you want to commit suicide, go ahead and do it, but don't corrupt MY medical care.
legalized softdrugs
Extremely arguable as to whether the produces more freedom from the non-drug users who have to deal with the druggies.
legalized abortion
That doesn't produce all that much freedom for the child, now does it? If a country had a law that said you could terminate any child under five years old at the parent's discretion, would that make that country have more "freedom"?
They still manage to kill a foreigner or to destroy a jewish cemetary once month or so.
No one says that should be legal. However actions should be illegal. It's generally a mistake to make thoughts illegal. The US has its share of Nazis as well, but they are just laughed at rather than banned. Guess what would happen if they were suddenly banned? Right -- they would get power from the negative attention, and suddenly would become the "cool thing" for the amateur anarchists.
i think germania realized that in order to prevent anything resembling what happened with Hitler and the Nazis, the citizens must be free to think as they want, must be able to go on with their lives with the privacy and freedom that all humans deserve.
Ironically, you are free to think anything you want -- except if it has to do with Nazism. The Nazi party is banned in Germany. Understandable given the history, but German is hardly the home of free thinkers.
Although most younger Germans are very friendly to Americans, many of the older folks are downright hostile. If you start speaking to them in English, they walk away.
Maybe those folks didn't speak English? It is Germany, you know. :)
To tell you the truth, I didn't encounter any of that when I was there. The people seemed really friendly. Of course, I have blond-haired blue-eyed German genes in me, but my attitude still screams "American!" from a mile away. :)
What makes Germany less or more desireable for people who are concerned about their rights as they relate to technology, privacy, or otherwise?
For what it's worth, when I visited some relatives in Germany about 8 years ago (?), my uncle mentioned a couple of laws that I found absolutely astounding. First, it was illegal to leave your car (and house? Can't remember) unlocked for any period of time. If you are making multiple trips, you are required to lock the car between each trip. That's just the law (don't know if it was local or what).
I was also amazed to learn that you have to get permission from the government in order to start a business. You see, they feel that too much competition in a particular area is bad for those local businesses, so they restrict how many of a particular business type can be in an area. After all, they can't have a business go bankrupt! That might cause job loss (never mind the inefficiency that it breeds).
I've been to Europe a couple of times in a number of countries. There is no question that Europe is a great place to visit, but there's no way I would ever live there. They have absolutely no concept of freedom.
The US takes a lot of flack, but there's no doubt the US is the most free country in the world. Not to mention that it has by far the best highway system in the world. :) Europe SUCKS when it comes to having sufficient road signs to mark the highways. You really get spoiled in the US with 3 signs before every exit.
I've had a link to Raymond Scott's web site in my sig off-and-on. He's the guy who wrote so much of the music of looney tunes, although ironically he "probably" died not knowing that he was immortalized because of it! In particular, he wrote "powerhouse" which is the "mechanical, assembly line" music you would know right off if you heard it. He also wrote "The Toy Trumpet" and "Dinner Music for Cannibals".
But he's also an interesting guy in his own right. He probably developed the first music sequencer, and some of the first synthesizers. In fact, a young Bob Moog was inspired by visits to the his massive music laboratory.
I highly recommend checking out his site (although he died sometime in the 90s).
Ad-Aware is what you're describing. This software rocks, by the way. Highly recommended.
To tell you the truth, at first I thought the summaries were TOO good; I was suspicious that it wasn't really automated.
But after looking at a few more stories, it looks like it just pulls sentences out of the stories that seem to have a different point to make, and strings them together.
Sometimes you see some redundancy and some non-sequiturs, but I have to admit the illusion is pretty good.
Unless I'm totally off (which is usual), an odometer is really a tachometer, for it measures (sp?) a car's wheel rpms, perhaps with an added last stage to sum revolutions up until they make a mile and them zeroing them again.
Yes, you're totally off. A tachometer measures rotations per unit time. An odometer measures accumulated rotations. A tachometer is much more complex than an odometer (an odometer is just some gears and wheels).
I have a question to some air-flow engineer out there that I've always wondered about this issue.
Is it possible to use the temperature differential between the heat inside the case and the outside to create some passive cooling system? It seems like it should be possible to use the energy in the heat someway to move the air around.
Is there just not a good technique to do this, or is there some other problem that I'm not thinking of?
Laptops are a lot like bicycles: if you have a 50-pound laptop, it doesn't need a lock.
What the hell are you talking about? If I have a 50 pound bicycle, that's too heavy to ride away?
And 50 pounds of laptop is too heavy to lug away? Maybe 200 pounds, but sheesh I could carry 50 pounds under my arm (I am bigger and stronger than average, though). Not to mention a 50 pound laptop would probably have a handle.
Oh wait, it's michael posting the story. Never mind.
The site seems to be Slashdotted. But do they include themselves? Business 2.0 were the absolute leaders in breathless "new economy" stories, although I haven't read them lately to see if they've calmed down at all.
From Theo DeRaadt's bio...
If you don't already know who I am, maybe you should question why you're posting here.
Sheesh, and I thought I was arrogant and conceited. Just for the record: Your name only sounds vaguely familiar to me, as a 20 year veteran programmer who has programmed in dozens of different operating systems, languages, and markets. Apparently you are the founder of OpenBSD. Well, I guess that's pretty cool and everything, but frankly BSD is below my radar.
Just a suggestion... you might want to get over yourself. You and the BSDs are just not that important.
Hmmm. I think this question would make a good new sig.
Are there any hard-core Free Software advocates who are hard-core enough to boycott Google because they don't release the source to their search engine?
After all, isn't it your right to view the source code to any application you use?
And if your response is, "well, Google isn't an application, it's a service delivered over the web". Well then, does the freedom of an application depend on whether the processor is accessible to you or not?
How about we keep the discussion mature, also?
Pick one:
a) Fat chance
b) Slim chance
And hey, our self-respect might be expensive, but our self-respect is of a much higher quality than yours!!*
*Except when our self-respect catches on fire and has to be recalled.
Good lord! The most advanced Perl EVER ?? I'm running out to buy a Mac RIGHT NOW.
I mean, come on guys... I know Mac people are used to being second class citizens as far as getting the latest releases of software, but this is just... embarrassing.
Every once in a while, the Mac community gets something first, and they start crowing like I can't believe. Have some self respect, for god's sake.