Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean it isn't uninformed. I have valid reasons for flaming Red Hat (read my second post in this thread). Someone shits on my head and tells me it's shampoo and I'm gonna get pretty damned upset. Then, if I tell someone else about it and the peanut gallery jumps up to tell me what a fuckwad I am for it, I can betcha that it's going to strike me as more than just a *bit-o-bullshit*.
I'm glad there's always someone like you around to tell me what a worthless piece of shit I am. It keeps me from thinking too highly of myself.
This combined with some other really bad experiences with Red Hat (both the company and the software)
Such as? We aren't perfect, but we're trying.;)
I've posted this story before, and since I am now posting in the 'company' of a Red Hat employee will probably end up with a lawsuit on my hands to boot, but here goes.
I 'purchased' a copy of Applixware back when Red Hat first started selling it from their web store. I didn't receive it for a long time (~month or so) so I called and asked. I was told that it had been shipped to the wrong address (because of a bad number entered in the zip code by the person writing the shipping label or some such) and that they would re-ship it. Another few weeks pass and I get my credit card bill. I'm billed twice for the product I have yet to recieve. I call again. I'm told it got shipped to the same place again and when they recieved it back as a bad address (just like the first time) they just put it back and figured "You'll call us when you don't get it!" So, I ask about the second charge on my credit card and am told that it will be taken care of and the product shipped overnight to me. The product is shipped to the right address (finally), but is in fact the Red Hat OS 5.1 (or 5.2, can't remember) which was (at that time) a lot cheaper than the product I had purchased. I called my credit card to check if I had been reimbursed for the second shipment, and I hadn't. But I had been charged a third time for the same thing. I finally called Red Hat and said, forget it, and reimburse me (and told them I would send the OS back unopened). I was told I could keep the OS (the one positive thing that happened through the entire thing), but I had to accept that product that I purchased from them from a 'legal' standpoint. I said that would be fine if I ever actually *got* the product.
Anyway, I fought it for another month or so and finally gave up completely. I then called my credit card to stop all payments to Red Hat (as they were still charging me over and over for Applix which I never recieved) and I was able to recover all but the first two payments (it had been too long for me to 'stop payment' on those charges by the time my frustration had boiled to that point).
That's my problems with the company. Now for the software...
Red Hat is the only distro that I have ever seen where network services would just fail after a random amount of time. I used to run Red Hat on a 'headless' server in my room used for network testing/file serving/print serving and other network functions. About once every two weeks (more or less sometimes) I would not be able to log in over the network, I would not be able to do anything to the system other than hit the 'reset' button. I was told by Red Hat supporters that it had to be a hardware problem. I guess that explains why I've been able to use SuSE, Debian, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD on that same box with absolutely no problems at all. In fact, the reason I finally gave up on the reboot/restart situation (I didn't know better at the time, I was used to Windows) was that Red Hat ate it so bad that I could not boot the system up to a usuable state at all. And it was not cracked. It was not attached to any outside networks (I used a system seperated from my network for browsing and such). I slipped a vid card in it before reloading and tried to boot. It came up OK (supposedly) but refused to accept any form of input. Then I reloaded with another distro and it was fine.
I've also had problems with Red Hat desktop systems. I don't know what it is, but it just seems to steadily deteriorate (kind of like Windows does under heavy use). You can say it's all my own fault, that's what I've been told over and over again by Red Hat supporters and employees. But the fact remains that I don't run into this problem with *any* other distro (other than Corel) or any other OS except for Windows.
From the above examples I hope you understand that I have valid reasons for feeling that Red Hat wants to be the next MS. I got burned by customer-service/sales. I got burned by the software repeatedly (the desktop system I tried running just continuously had problems), and I see no reason other than spite for the attacks I saw Red Hat slinging towards KDE when they first attached themselves to GNOME. Red Hat appears to me to operate on the same principles that drive Microsoft. Make crappy software, blame the user when it doesn't work, screw the user if you can make a buck, and slign mud when you have no facts.
I realize by posting this I've opened myself up to a huge liability. Online postings are now fodder for lawsuits. And I'm quite sure Red Hat is not above that. As long as you realize that the only things I have of monetary value (in my own name) are my computers and my guitars (and I doubt Red Hat could justify legal fees for the monetary value of those) then you can understand why I don't really care if I get sued over it. I was hosed, and feel I have the right to complain. Normally I just say *really bad experiences* as I said before. But you asked...
Well, not all of those Tri-Teal boxes are in a landfill (yet). I bought one back in the day (Red Hat 4.2 I think, or was it early 5.x series). Anyway, it was pretty much worthless at the time I purchased it, and when I heard about KDE I dumped it in a hurry.
This combined with some other *really bad* experiences with Red Hat (both the company and the software) lead me to the conclusion that Red Hat is indeed out to become the next MS of the software world. When I heard about GNOME (and the fact that it was 'sponsored' by Red Hat) it just reinforced what I already figured. Red Hat will not be happy until it 'owns' the Linux market. Not just in the sense of 'most' market share, but they want 'all' market share.
I still think they would have been better off to try to create some great Windows rip off. Then they could make it proprietary. I know they make their token efforts here and there, but it seems more of a 'scouting mission' when I see some news of Red Hat putting out 'free' software than any real effort. Maybe it's just me.
Please, mark me as a troll. God knows I deserve it for speaking the truth
The really nice thing about 'going insane' is that it's always a short trip, and you are pretty much assured of having plenty of company along for the ride. Of course, they are all insane, but....
OTP, but this entire thread has given me a wicked case of deja-vu. I know that I have seen these posts before, in this order. I even remember seeing the spelling error in the last post.
Maybe they like machines that sound like a fricken jetliner when you turn them on. I've got one of those in my 'server room' at home. Something like 8 3 inch fans and 4 2 inch fans. Turn it on and it just starts screaming. You almost have to set it in a seperate room just to concentrate while it's running.
I haven't seen them for a while, but at one time there was a company selling 'strange and exotic' computer cases. One was a fancy cherry wood case in a dark stain (that you could place components into and pull them out of with ease). Another was an arm-chair/recliner with a built in keyboard (split between the arms) and a LCD monitor that you could swing in front of you when you sat down and pivoted to match whatever level you set the recliner at. I think the components in that one fit in the side of the chair, or the base, or something. I always wished I'd had the money for one of those, but couldn't afford it. Now I can't find them! I hope they didn't go out of business.
Hey! I'm 26 and like all the cartoons under discussion.
My wife last night, after leaving the room to use the restroom, came back to find me watching Jonny Bravo. Her response: "I can't leave the room for a second! Can I?"
Realizing this is a troll, (and we aren't supposed to feed them) this is the common misconception that is so common it has in fact pervaded even some Unix advocates. We don't need to make a system 'more like Windows'. I remember MS saying that NT was a 'better Unix than Unix'. Should we now repeat that mistake by saying we are going to create a 'better Windows than Windows'?
The fact is that at some point we have to drop the idea that only what 'is' is all that will be in operating systems. Unix isn't the only system that sucks. And I defy you to give me a system that doesn't suck at the moment. Sure, there are ideas out there that address some of the suckage (TUNES tries, but again seems to 'not get it'), but for the most part, even the best ideas get dragged down in the 'backwards compatibility is all that matters' symbolic idealism.
Bring me a new system. Bring me a fresh start. Bring me a system that doesn't suck. Then I'll start pointing out why that system too sucks:-).
Seriously, we use the tool that works best for us at the moment, but don't let that hold back your imagination from something else. There are a lot of problems in the *nix world. In fact, there are so many that we may be at the point where it would be best to drop it all and start over (in a *better* language than C even?). It's going to take a long time before enough people/developers realize this to actually make progress on a system that *won't suck*. And at the moment, that is what we need to consider.
Actually I think that if there is *ever* anything worth watching on TV it will just be scheduled. The end of the world will be at some point in the thirty seconds leading up to the start of the show, when all of America is sitting on the edge of their seats, preparing to finally enjoy something....
BTW, if I see a shadow creature moving around on my LCD screen does that mean that I should walk away from the computer for a while?
I've heard it said recently that journalist are not so much news reporters anymore, but artists.
There was a time when it was important (or was considered important) to impart news as quickly and as accurately as possible. Now it is far more important to take the time to 'paint' the appropriate picture to generate the most revenue you possibly can for any given piece of journalism. Thus it is not important that they get the facts straight, or that they give an impartial account. It is important that you get as many people as possible as riled up as you possibly can get them and hope that they will keep coming back for more. After all, if there is anything that history has taught us it is that people will lap up anything that pisses them off.
You don't believe me? Then why did you read this article?
While journalists have become artists (in a fashion), they are much like pop-rock artists. They want to make as much cash as possible, by whatever means necissary. Sell your soul if you have to, but make that bottom line climb.
It would be neat if it were that easy. Perhaps if you order hundreds of machines it is, but if you are ordering small amounts (as our 16 machine order was) you are not dealt with the same. The point is that I agree we 'should' be able to get machines without paying for Windows, but that is not allowed by the salespeople I have talked to.
The nice thing is that any Linux installing company will charge a shitload more for the same computer. I have yet to fully figure that one out, but it may be worth it the next time we need systems.
Here's the deal:
Microsoft is saying your case # 4 is not legitimate and that you would need to purcahse a seperate license for those last 10 machines. I don't think it's right, but they claim that the 10 machines you bought with W2K already on them (supposedly with legal licenses) does not entitle you to run your Select licensed 'ghost' image onto the system until you also purchase a Select license for each machine you do that with. So, while you do already own a license, in Microsoft's opinion, it isn't a legal one because they changed the rules.
In the article they said it's like purchasing a steerage ticket for an airplane. That ticket allows you to have a steerage seat, but it doesn't allow you to use a first class seat. In Microsoft's opinion, if you chose to install from your Select images, you will need to purchase the Select license. Even though the software is exactly the same, MS's rules say it is a different scenario that you haven't paid for the right to have.
Of course, what MS manages to somehow avoid telling you is that even if you buy the first class ticket and sit in the first class seat, they are also forcing you to purchase a steerage ticket so that you can be rest assured that you have purchased the 'correct' seat for you. So if you decide halfway through the flight that you would rather switch to the other seat, you already have it reserved for you.
So, whichever license you own legally, it doesn't entitle you to install using the other version (even though in reality it is exactly the same software and only in Microsoft's mind do the two licenses constitute two completely different products).
In other words: In typical Microsoft fashion, they have managed to make it seem that the world appears completely different to them than to any other person alive on the planet. And unless we agree that only their vision is correct, we are fsckers, and shall pay the price for it.
It's not like MS forces OEMs to sell you boxes with windows preinstalled.
Get a grip people.
While that is true (to some small extent with the big-ass OEMs), you still will have a hugely difficult time getting a system from a large OEM without Windows installed.
Take Dell for example. We ordered sixteen workstations well after their pathetic "Linux Initiative" was under way and were told that we had to purchase Windows NT for each system no matter what we wanted to run on it. The reason was that, according to Dell, "Linux only supports SCSI hard drives and if you do not want to pay for SCSI, then we have to install Windows NT in order to test the hardware before sending it out to you."
Whether this line of bullshit (other than the blatant lie that Linux only supports SCSI) is prompted by MS to force a Windows install ("We have to test the hardware" is a common chant among OEMs, it happens at Gateway and Micron too), or it is seriously something they believe cannot be accomplished by popping in a hard drive for test purposes then popping in a formatted hard drive for the customer (formatted to test that it is a working hard drive) I do not know. I do know that at Gateway (when I still worked there) they absolutely refused to believe you could do the old pop in, pop out routine unless you knew the right people when you ordered. Because, "We have to test the hardware!"
While they say you can order without software, this usually means that you will not get a hard drive installed. Somehow they feel that having a hard drive in the system will prompt you to 'pirate' a copy of Windows instead of installing 'legal' software. I went through this rigamaroll with management at Gateway, and they just couldn't fathom installing something other than Windows. This was a couple of years ago though.
I had a little respect for Apple when I started hearing about OS X. It sounded truly inspired and interesting. A Unix based OS for the common man, which is something we have all been wanting to see (at least I have).
However, like you I see the latest lawyering blitz by Apple as only disheartening Apple fans. It has made me lose the little respect I was feeling towards them. While I was considering purchasing a Mac once OS X comes out, I'm not so sure anymore. I don't feel the suing frenzy lately is entirely Jobs's fault. After all, most companies have a terribly difficult time keeping their lawyers on a leash. But I will say that Jobs doesn't always do the right thing, and his ego may prevent him from seeing that these rumors are in fact probably good for business in the end. What better way to stir interest in a product than to have months of rumors circulate about it before hand?
Apple has the right to sue if they truly believe that is the proper way to handle the situation, but I do believe if they continue to sue, they will only alienate more and more people as they are giving credence to those that say Apple is just a one time tech company that is now an advertising department melded with a legal department, and a press whore is in the lead. I'm sorry, but it's beginning to look like this is true.
While you are correct about the price of getting to space, I think that is something (like most technologies) where the price will eventually drop dramatically. Especially once we get a 'permanent' or semi-permanent space station above the earth to launch inter-planetary missions from.
Remember, in the Star Trek series (plural), very rarely does an inter-planetary mission involve a space ship that touches down on a planet on either end. It launches from a space station, and they either use drop ships, or teleportation (don't know about that for real though) to reach the end planet's surface. That's a realistic view (except for the teleportation), and probably the way it will actually happen if we ever get to that stage.
As it sits, I'm getting tired of people saying we need to 'slow down' on space exploration because of cost. When you 'slow down' you increase costs of each mission. As you increase the number of missions, and make creation of space craft more of a mass-production sort of thing, costs will decrease (as technology is refined and re-used) and we will actually have a shot at going somewhere we have yet to reach.
You are assuming that Microsoft would do what makes sense instead of what could make Windows look good (but instead made it look bad). I can definitely see a reason why MS would try an instant migration to NT. Billy G. is famous (infamous?) for saying "Do it, do it now!" without bothering to listen to rational explainations as to why it would be better to wait.
Of course, having said that, I still think they would have to have been completely insane to do it that quickly unless it was something that was in the works before they 'aquired' Hotmail, which is entirely possible as well.
Well, since I got it sitting on the shelf right beside me I guess I must be in fairy land then, right?
I own a copy of each of the versions I listed, in the box, with manuals, retail versions. Since I looked at the pile before posting, I'm pretty sure I know what's sitting in front of me. Perhaps you missed the 5.4 release?
There is another catch-22 that I'm also getting sick of hearing about. You know, that whole "Linux won't catch on until there are applications, and applications won't be written until it catches on" thing is a bunch of crap. Now, I see the same non-sense coming up here.
You were right in your first statement. You are just one person. And yes, there are a lot of others that think like you. But I would love to go to Mars (or any other planet) if I could be promised that it would be possible to stay alive and well, to work, to eat, and to live a full life. And I'll betcha that there are a lot of people that are like me. While it's true that you are in the majority (just like in the Linux situation with the 'I don't want to leave Windows crowd') of not wanting to go, the people like me that would be willing to go would pave the way for what would eventually become 'just another place to live'.
It won't be an instant transition, but it could happen slowly. Now, why do so many people insist that it can never happen just because it hasn't yet? I find that a very narrow view. Thank god technology doesn't revolve around those that believe only what is already known is all there is to know. Otherwise we would all still believe the world was flat and we would still be sailing from Europe around Africa to China for our spices. On the other hand, if the techno-elite were truly in charge of every society (and we were keeping pace from Egyptian times) we would have already populated every star-system visible to the naked eye (at least, this is the theory I have heard repeatedly).
It is the fact the everyone has a different opinion on what to do in this (and every other) case and the fact the we must find the balance that keeps us moving forward slowly. We will, eventually, populate other planets. The naysayers will torment the first 'off-worlders' for being too experimental, but it will happen. Maybe not tomorrow, but someday.
Re:cutting through the PRspeak, should I buy it?
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SuSE 7.0
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That's a very realistic take on it. Especially since SuSE releases x.0 releases with a lot of "beta" and "test" software. I believe the 7.0 release is to get KDE 2.0 integrated with the distro, and to also begin the integration of SuSE's version of the 2.4 kernel and XF86 4.0. Since KDE 2.0 and the 2.4 kernel are not out of beta and test stages, these will obviously not be stable. And XF86 4.0 hasn't really hit the fully stable and supported stage yet either (there are quite a few cards, especially laptop, that aren't supported by 4.x yet).
I would agree that unless you are a guru, or a SuSE-holic(as I have been since the 5.x days) there isn't any need to purchase 7.0, but 7.1 will probably be very worthy of a purchase even from casual users.
You may or may not be serious here, but I figured WTF?
SuSE has always (at least as long as I've been using it) gone to the next major version after 4 'dot' releases. In the time that I've been using them I've seen 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, and now 7.0. I don't think this had anything to do with Red Hat's releases. In fact, up until this release, SuSE was always (number wise) quite a bit ahead of Red Hat. As far as releases go, SuSE seems to have quite a few more than Red Hat in a comparable period of time. It appears about twice as many 'official' releases each year.
Anyway, it seems that SuSE's release numbers are dictated partly by major software revisions (6.0 was for the new libraries, KDE 1.0 release, and kernel 2.2, and I believe the new release will include KDE 2.0 betas and XFree 4.0) and partly on some internal orginization that determines the next cycle. But as far as I know they release 4 dot releases after a x.0 release and then move to the next full number.
Societies lack of respect for ...
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Selfish Society
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I had a recent conversation about a topic very similar to this on usenet. It is the lack of respect given to the technological elite. It started when a Windows user told a Linux/Unix person he was a geek because he understood some random bit of shell script. And it quickly degenerated....
Why does society insist that all people with technical knowledge are 'geeks', 'nerds', and other undersirable names. Society is quick to point the finger at the techno-elite when something goes wrong, yet they don't hesitate to grab up every last bit of new technology developed by the same techno-elite people. And this whole attitude that technology is driven by testosterone overdosed males is absurd. Technology is driven forward by people asking questions. We ask questions and go out of our way to find an answer. For this, we are frowned upon by the rest of society. We are labeled geeks, and told to lock ourselves in our server-rooms, network rooms, labs, etc. and to leave alone the 'normal people' unless we have something they can use.
What Katz seems to be saying here is that it is completely justified. That being someone that can understand technology is all the reason anyone would need to label us outcasts. That we should all just give up on being 'geeks' and normalize ourselves.
Frankly, I'm sick of it. Society frowns on me because of my knowledge. Yet this same society looks up to strippers and the morally depraved. And somehow we are considered 'beneath' them because we spend our time learning things that aren't considered 'normal'. Yeah, thanks everyone. It's great you consider me an ass for having some knowledge you don't consider necissary. It's necissary to me. And I'm sick of being told I'm a worthless bastard because of it.
At some point we will have to face the fact that the techno-elite of society are not always the most depraved and selfish of society. And the trend of the techno-elite becoming more selfish is simply a reflection of society at large. We are not so different from the rest. And some of us are different from eachother.
Sorry, another worthless rant to counter a worthless story about a worthless topic about us worthless geeks....
Slashdot Mirror
Never post angry. That first sentence should be:
...isn't informed
Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean it isn't uninformed. I have valid reasons for flaming Red Hat (read my second post in this thread). Someone shits on my head and tells me it's shampoo and I'm gonna get pretty damned upset. Then, if I tell someone else about it and the peanut gallery jumps up to tell me what a fuckwad I am for it, I can betcha that it's going to strike me as more than just a *bit-o-bullshit*.
I'm glad there's always someone like you around to tell me what a worthless piece of shit I am. It keeps me from thinking too highly of myself.
I've posted this story before, and since I am now posting in the 'company' of a Red Hat employee will probably end up with a lawsuit on my hands to boot, but here goes.
I 'purchased' a copy of Applixware back when Red Hat first started selling it from their web store. I didn't receive it for a long time (~month or so) so I called and asked. I was told that it had been shipped to the wrong address (because of a bad number entered in the zip code by the person writing the shipping label or some such) and that they would re-ship it. Another few weeks pass and I get my credit card bill. I'm billed twice for the product I have yet to recieve. I call again. I'm told it got shipped to the same place again and when they recieved it back as a bad address (just like the first time) they just put it back and figured "You'll call us when you don't get it!" So, I ask about the second charge on my credit card and am told that it will be taken care of and the product shipped overnight to me. The product is shipped to the right address (finally), but is in fact the Red Hat OS 5.1 (or 5.2, can't remember) which was (at that time) a lot cheaper than the product I had purchased. I called my credit card to check if I had been reimbursed for the second shipment, and I hadn't. But I had been charged a third time for the same thing. I finally called Red Hat and said, forget it, and reimburse me (and told them I would send the OS back unopened). I was told I could keep the OS (the one positive thing that happened through the entire thing), but I had to accept that product that I purchased from them from a 'legal' standpoint. I said that would be fine if I ever actually *got* the product.
Anyway, I fought it for another month or so and finally gave up completely. I then called my credit card to stop all payments to Red Hat (as they were still charging me over and over for Applix which I never recieved) and I was able to recover all but the first two payments (it had been too long for me to 'stop payment' on those charges by the time my frustration had boiled to that point).
That's my problems with the company. Now for the software...
Red Hat is the only distro that I have ever seen where network services would just fail after a random amount of time. I used to run Red Hat on a 'headless' server in my room used for network testing/file serving/print serving and other network functions. About once every two weeks (more or less sometimes) I would not be able to log in over the network, I would not be able to do anything to the system other than hit the 'reset' button. I was told by Red Hat supporters that it had to be a hardware problem. I guess that explains why I've been able to use SuSE, Debian, FreeBSD, and OpenBSD on that same box with absolutely no problems at all. In fact, the reason I finally gave up on the reboot/restart situation (I didn't know better at the time, I was used to Windows) was that Red Hat ate it so bad that I could not boot the system up to a usuable state at all. And it was not cracked. It was not attached to any outside networks (I used a system seperated from my network for browsing and such). I slipped a vid card in it before reloading and tried to boot. It came up OK (supposedly) but refused to accept any form of input. Then I reloaded with another distro and it was fine.
I've also had problems with Red Hat desktop systems. I don't know what it is, but it just seems to steadily deteriorate (kind of like Windows does under heavy use). You can say it's all my own fault, that's what I've been told over and over again by Red Hat supporters and employees. But the fact remains that I don't run into this problem with *any* other distro (other than Corel) or any other OS except for Windows.
From the above examples I hope you understand that I have valid reasons for feeling that Red Hat wants to be the next MS. I got burned by customer-service/sales. I got burned by the software repeatedly (the desktop system I tried running just continuously had problems), and I see no reason other than spite for the attacks I saw Red Hat slinging towards KDE when they first attached themselves to GNOME. Red Hat appears to me to operate on the same principles that drive Microsoft. Make crappy software, blame the user when it doesn't work, screw the user if you can make a buck, and slign mud when you have no facts.
I realize by posting this I've opened myself up to a huge liability. Online postings are now fodder for lawsuits. And I'm quite sure Red Hat is not above that. As long as you realize that the only things I have of monetary value (in my own name) are my computers and my guitars (and I doubt Red Hat could justify legal fees for the monetary value of those) then you can understand why I don't really care if I get sued over it. I was hosed, and feel I have the right to complain. Normally I just say *really bad experiences* as I said before. But you asked...
Well, not all of those Tri-Teal boxes are in a landfill (yet). I bought one back in the day (Red Hat 4.2 I think, or was it early 5.x series). Anyway, it was pretty much worthless at the time I purchased it, and when I heard about KDE I dumped it in a hurry.
This combined with some other *really bad* experiences with Red Hat (both the company and the software) lead me to the conclusion that Red Hat is indeed out to become the next MS of the software world. When I heard about GNOME (and the fact that it was 'sponsored' by Red Hat) it just reinforced what I already figured. Red Hat will not be happy until it 'owns' the Linux market. Not just in the sense of 'most' market share, but they want 'all' market share.
I still think they would have been better off to try to create some great Windows rip off. Then they could make it proprietary. I know they make their token efforts here and there, but it seems more of a 'scouting mission' when I see some news of Red Hat putting out 'free' software than any real effort. Maybe it's just me.
Please, mark me as a troll. God knows I deserve it for speaking the truth
The really nice thing about 'going insane' is that it's always a short trip, and you are pretty much assured of having plenty of company along for the ride. Of course, they are all insane, but....
OTP, but this entire thread has given me a wicked case of deja-vu. I know that I have seen these posts before, in this order. I even remember seeing the spelling error in the last post.
Maybe I'm just freaking out!
Maybe they like machines that sound like a fricken jetliner when you turn them on. I've got one of those in my 'server room' at home. Something like 8 3 inch fans and 4 2 inch fans. Turn it on and it just starts screaming. You almost have to set it in a seperate room just to concentrate while it's running.
I haven't seen them for a while, but at one time there was a company selling 'strange and exotic' computer cases. One was a fancy cherry wood case in a dark stain (that you could place components into and pull them out of with ease). Another was an arm-chair/recliner with a built in keyboard (split between the arms) and a LCD monitor that you could swing in front of you when you sat down and pivoted to match whatever level you set the recliner at. I think the components in that one fit in the side of the chair, or the base, or something. I always wished I'd had the money for one of those, but couldn't afford it. Now I can't find them! I hope they didn't go out of business.
Hey! I'm 26 and like all the cartoons under discussion.
My wife last night, after leaving the room to use the restroom, came back to find me watching Jonny Bravo. Her response: "I can't leave the room for a second! Can I?"
Never grow up, it's not any fun.
Powerpuff Girls are OK, but I'd take a good Jonny Bravo cartoon any day:
"Uh, ha, huh, oh mamma!"
Jonny ROCKS!
Realizing this is a troll, (and we aren't supposed to feed them) this is the common misconception that is so common it has in fact pervaded even some Unix advocates. We don't need to make a system 'more like Windows'. I remember MS saying that NT was a 'better Unix than Unix'. Should we now repeat that mistake by saying we are going to create a 'better Windows than Windows'?
:-).
The fact is that at some point we have to drop the idea that only what 'is' is all that will be in operating systems. Unix isn't the only system that sucks. And I defy you to give me a system that doesn't suck at the moment. Sure, there are ideas out there that address some of the suckage (TUNES tries, but again seems to 'not get it'), but for the most part, even the best ideas get dragged down in the 'backwards compatibility is all that matters' symbolic idealism.
Bring me a new system. Bring me a fresh start. Bring me a system that doesn't suck. Then I'll start pointing out why that system too sucks
Seriously, we use the tool that works best for us at the moment, but don't let that hold back your imagination from something else. There are a lot of problems in the *nix world. In fact, there are so many that we may be at the point where it would be best to drop it all and start over (in a *better* language than C even?). It's going to take a long time before enough people/developers realize this to actually make progress on a system that *won't suck*. And at the moment, that is what we need to consider.
Actually I think that if there is *ever* anything worth watching on TV it will just be scheduled. The end of the world will be at some point in the thirty seconds leading up to the start of the show, when all of America is sitting on the edge of their seats, preparing to finally enjoy something....
BTW, if I see a shadow creature moving around on my LCD screen does that mean that I should walk away from the computer for a while?
I've heard it said recently that journalist are not so much news reporters anymore, but artists.
There was a time when it was important (or was considered important) to impart news as quickly and as accurately as possible. Now it is far more important to take the time to 'paint' the appropriate picture to generate the most revenue you possibly can for any given piece of journalism. Thus it is not important that they get the facts straight, or that they give an impartial account. It is important that you get as many people as possible as riled up as you possibly can get them and hope that they will keep coming back for more. After all, if there is anything that history has taught us it is that people will lap up anything that pisses them off.
You don't believe me? Then why did you read this article?
While journalists have become artists (in a fashion), they are much like pop-rock artists. They want to make as much cash as possible, by whatever means necissary. Sell your soul if you have to, but make that bottom line climb.
Damn that humor!
./. About three times a day I spew Mountain Dew all over my monitor and keyboard when I read some non-sense joke.
I've got to quit reading
Firewall, toaster, hehe, oh boy.
It would be neat if it were that easy. Perhaps if you order hundreds of machines it is, but if you are ordering small amounts (as our 16 machine order was) you are not dealt with the same. The point is that I agree we 'should' be able to get machines without paying for Windows, but that is not allowed by the salespeople I have talked to.
The nice thing is that any Linux installing company will charge a shitload more for the same computer. I have yet to fully figure that one out, but it may be worth it the next time we need systems.
Here's the deal:
Microsoft is saying your case # 4 is not legitimate and that you would need to purcahse a seperate license for those last 10 machines. I don't think it's right, but they claim that the 10 machines you bought with W2K already on them (supposedly with legal licenses) does not entitle you to run your Select licensed 'ghost' image onto the system until you also purchase a Select license for each machine you do that with. So, while you do already own a license, in Microsoft's opinion, it isn't a legal one because they changed the rules.
In the article they said it's like purchasing a steerage ticket for an airplane. That ticket allows you to have a steerage seat, but it doesn't allow you to use a first class seat. In Microsoft's opinion, if you chose to install from your Select images, you will need to purchase the Select license. Even though the software is exactly the same, MS's rules say it is a different scenario that you haven't paid for the right to have.
Of course, what MS manages to somehow avoid telling you is that even if you buy the first class ticket and sit in the first class seat, they are also forcing you to purchase a steerage ticket so that you can be rest assured that you have purchased the 'correct' seat for you. So if you decide halfway through the flight that you would rather switch to the other seat, you already have it reserved for you.
So, whichever license you own legally, it doesn't entitle you to install using the other version (even though in reality it is exactly the same software and only in Microsoft's mind do the two licenses constitute two completely different products).
In other words: In typical Microsoft fashion, they have managed to make it seem that the world appears completely different to them than to any other person alive on the planet. And unless we agree that only their vision is correct, we are fsckers, and shall pay the price for it.
While that is true (to some small extent with the big-ass OEMs), you still will have a hugely difficult time getting a system from a large OEM without Windows installed.
Take Dell for example. We ordered sixteen workstations well after their pathetic "Linux Initiative" was under way and were told that we had to purchase Windows NT for each system no matter what we wanted to run on it. The reason was that, according to Dell, "Linux only supports SCSI hard drives and if you do not want to pay for SCSI, then we have to install Windows NT in order to test the hardware before sending it out to you."
Whether this line of bullshit (other than the blatant lie that Linux only supports SCSI) is prompted by MS to force a Windows install ("We have to test the hardware" is a common chant among OEMs, it happens at Gateway and Micron too), or it is seriously something they believe cannot be accomplished by popping in a hard drive for test purposes then popping in a formatted hard drive for the customer (formatted to test that it is a working hard drive) I do not know. I do know that at Gateway (when I still worked there) they absolutely refused to believe you could do the old pop in, pop out routine unless you knew the right people when you ordered. Because, "We have to test the hardware!"
While they say you can order without software, this usually means that you will not get a hard drive installed. Somehow they feel that having a hard drive in the system will prompt you to 'pirate' a copy of Windows instead of installing 'legal' software. I went through this rigamaroll with management at Gateway, and they just couldn't fathom installing something other than Windows. This was a couple of years ago though.
I had a little respect for Apple when I started hearing about OS X. It sounded truly inspired and interesting. A Unix based OS for the common man, which is something we have all been wanting to see (at least I have).
However, like you I see the latest lawyering blitz by Apple as only disheartening Apple fans. It has made me lose the little respect I was feeling towards them. While I was considering purchasing a Mac once OS X comes out, I'm not so sure anymore. I don't feel the suing frenzy lately is entirely Jobs's fault. After all, most companies have a terribly difficult time keeping their lawyers on a leash. But I will say that Jobs doesn't always do the right thing, and his ego may prevent him from seeing that these rumors are in fact probably good for business in the end. What better way to stir interest in a product than to have months of rumors circulate about it before hand?
Apple has the right to sue if they truly believe that is the proper way to handle the situation, but I do believe if they continue to sue, they will only alienate more and more people as they are giving credence to those that say Apple is just a one time tech company that is now an advertising department melded with a legal department, and a press whore is in the lead. I'm sorry, but it's beginning to look like this is true.
While you are correct about the price of getting to space, I think that is something (like most technologies) where the price will eventually drop dramatically. Especially once we get a 'permanent' or semi-permanent space station above the earth to launch inter-planetary missions from.
Remember, in the Star Trek series (plural), very rarely does an inter-planetary mission involve a space ship that touches down on a planet on either end. It launches from a space station, and they either use drop ships, or teleportation (don't know about that for real though) to reach the end planet's surface. That's a realistic view (except for the teleportation), and probably the way it will actually happen if we ever get to that stage.
As it sits, I'm getting tired of people saying we need to 'slow down' on space exploration because of cost. When you 'slow down' you increase costs of each mission. As you increase the number of missions, and make creation of space craft more of a mass-production sort of thing, costs will decrease (as technology is refined and re-used) and we will actually have a shot at going somewhere we have yet to reach.
You are assuming that Microsoft would do what makes sense instead of what could make Windows look good (but instead made it look bad). I can definitely see a reason why MS would try an instant migration to NT. Billy G. is famous (infamous?) for saying "Do it, do it now!" without bothering to listen to rational explainations as to why it would be better to wait.
Of course, having said that, I still think they would have to have been completely insane to do it that quickly unless it was something that was in the works before they 'aquired' Hotmail, which is entirely possible as well.
Well, since I got it sitting on the shelf right beside me I guess I must be in fairy land then, right?
I own a copy of each of the versions I listed, in the box, with manuals, retail versions. Since I looked at the pile before posting, I'm pretty sure I know what's sitting in front of me. Perhaps you missed the 5.4 release?
I'm sure I'll be labeled a troll but...
There is another catch-22 that I'm also getting sick of hearing about. You know, that whole "Linux won't catch on until there are applications, and applications won't be written until it catches on" thing is a bunch of crap. Now, I see the same non-sense coming up here.
You were right in your first statement. You are just one person. And yes, there are a lot of others that think like you. But I would love to go to Mars (or any other planet) if I could be promised that it would be possible to stay alive and well, to work, to eat, and to live a full life. And I'll betcha that there are a lot of people that are like me. While it's true that you are in the majority (just like in the Linux situation with the 'I don't want to leave Windows crowd') of not wanting to go, the people like me that would be willing to go would pave the way for what would eventually become 'just another place to live'.
It won't be an instant transition, but it could happen slowly. Now, why do so many people insist that it can never happen just because it hasn't yet? I find that a very narrow view. Thank god technology doesn't revolve around those that believe only what is already known is all there is to know. Otherwise we would all still believe the world was flat and we would still be sailing from Europe around Africa to China for our spices. On the other hand, if the techno-elite were truly in charge of every society (and we were keeping pace from Egyptian times) we would have already populated every star-system visible to the naked eye (at least, this is the theory I have heard repeatedly).
It is the fact the everyone has a different opinion on what to do in this (and every other) case and the fact the we must find the balance that keeps us moving forward slowly. We will, eventually, populate other planets. The naysayers will torment the first 'off-worlders' for being too experimental, but it will happen. Maybe not tomorrow, but someday.
That's a very realistic take on it. Especially since SuSE releases x.0 releases with a lot of "beta" and "test" software. I believe the 7.0 release is to get KDE 2.0 integrated with the distro, and to also begin the integration of SuSE's version of the 2.4 kernel and XF86 4.0. Since KDE 2.0 and the 2.4 kernel are not out of beta and test stages, these will obviously not be stable. And XF86 4.0 hasn't really hit the fully stable and supported stage yet either (there are quite a few cards, especially laptop, that aren't supported by 4.x yet).
I would agree that unless you are a guru, or a SuSE-holic(as I have been since the 5.x days) there isn't any need to purchase 7.0, but 7.1 will probably be very worthy of a purchase even from casual users.
You may or may not be serious here, but I figured WTF?
SuSE has always (at least as long as I've been using it) gone to the next major version after 4 'dot' releases. In the time that I've been using them I've seen 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4, and now 7.0. I don't think this had anything to do with Red Hat's releases. In fact, up until this release, SuSE was always (number wise) quite a bit ahead of Red Hat. As far as releases go, SuSE seems to have quite a few more than Red Hat in a comparable period of time. It appears about twice as many 'official' releases each year.
Anyway, it seems that SuSE's release numbers are dictated partly by major software revisions (6.0 was for the new libraries, KDE 1.0 release, and kernel 2.2, and I believe the new release will include KDE 2.0 betas and XFree 4.0) and partly on some internal orginization that determines the next cycle. But as far as I know they release 4 dot releases after a x.0 release and then move to the next full number.
I had a recent conversation about a topic very similar to this on usenet. It is the lack of respect given to the technological elite. It started when a Windows user told a Linux/Unix person he was a geek because he understood some random bit of shell script. And it quickly degenerated....
Why does society insist that all people with technical knowledge are 'geeks', 'nerds', and other undersirable names. Society is quick to point the finger at the techno-elite when something goes wrong, yet they don't hesitate to grab up every last bit of new technology developed by the same techno-elite people. And this whole attitude that technology is driven by testosterone overdosed males is absurd. Technology is driven forward by people asking questions. We ask questions and go out of our way to find an answer. For this, we are frowned upon by the rest of society. We are labeled geeks, and told to lock ourselves in our server-rooms, network rooms, labs, etc. and to leave alone the 'normal people' unless we have something they can use.
What Katz seems to be saying here is that it is completely justified. That being someone that can understand technology is all the reason anyone would need to label us outcasts. That we should all just give up on being 'geeks' and normalize ourselves.
Frankly, I'm sick of it. Society frowns on me because of my knowledge. Yet this same society looks up to strippers and the morally depraved. And somehow we are considered 'beneath' them because we spend our time learning things that aren't considered 'normal'. Yeah, thanks everyone. It's great you consider me an ass for having some knowledge you don't consider necissary. It's necissary to me. And I'm sick of being told I'm a worthless bastard because of it.
At some point we will have to face the fact that the techno-elite of society are not always the most depraved and selfish of society. And the trend of the techno-elite becoming more selfish is simply a reflection of society at large. We are not so different from the rest. And some of us are different from eachother.
Sorry, another worthless rant to counter a worthless story about a worthless topic about us worthless geeks....