Everyone knows that the biggest obstacle to getting Windows onto the desktop is application support. Being able to run the plethora of Linux applications on Windows is a step in the right direction.
Soon Windows users will be able to stop using Linux forever. World domination!
The main thing is to get important applications like OpenOffice working under Windows, to allow people to make the switch, then develop proprietary replacements to forever release the user from the tyrany of open/free software!!!
Yes, yes, yes... Microsoft is wonderful, isn't it?
But why do I get the following error when I visit http://www.ihateapple.com?
Server Application Error The server has reached the maximum recovery limit for the application during the processing of your request. Please contact the server administrator for assistance. HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:59:57 GMT
Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 93 The remote procedure call failed.
The cows in Salzburg are awesome. There's about 150 of them scattered around everywhere. --
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
For someone who writes security articles and, of all things, the Linux Administrators Security Guide, you are rather misinformed.
It's obvious that you are not aware of the meaning of the words "stable" and "unstable" as they relate to Debian. Slink is "stable" because it's packages do not change much (Slink has been updated for security reasons and Y2K stuff, that's about it). Woody is "unstable" because it's packages get updated frequently (like, every day).
Yes, it does look like Potato will be released just before 2.4, so it will miss out on it initially. However, it will probably contain 2.4 in a future minor release (like when 2.4 actually gets released). There shouldn't be much to it -- I'm running 2.3.99 pre8 (okay so it's a little old) on a stock Potato system with no upgrades required from when I was running 2.2.
It's interesting that you make a comment here about the services that are active in a default install ("OpenBSD, secure by default, requires the admin to do things to make it less secure"). Your article did not touch on that issue at all.
You'd get to sleep all of your 8 hours if only you installed Debian on all 6 of your linux servers. apt-get - the greatest system administration tool ever.
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Debian is not a tragic victim of the pace of OSS development by a long shot.
Yes, Debian has not had a stable release for some time.
If you want cutting edge, you use the unstable branch. More than 'probably very useable' - it's more up-to-date than say RedHat because it's continually being updated (hence the name "unstable")
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Some of us on the SLUG (Sydney Linux Users Group) have had words with the author of this review, mostly about his treatment towards Debian.
Here is a section of the mail header of one of the author's messages:
Reply-To: "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com> From: "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com> To: [slug address removed] References: [removed to protect the innocent] Subject: Re: [SLUG] A comment on Linux Security Reviews Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:36:25 -0600 Organization: SecurityPortal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
The way some people complain about certain window managers/desktops "looking like Windows", you'd think the average Slashdotter's definition of 'innovation' was 'doesn't look like anything MS'.
There are certainly more areas for innovation on a desktop than just the 'look' of it.
For example, I thought the symbols used for non-readable (glasses with red cross) and non-writable (broken pencil) were quite intuitive -- and certainly not MS-like.
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
1) The user's need reduces. For instance, as free packages replace non-free ones (Mozilla for Netscape, let's say). If the user wants the non-free alternative, let them get it themselves.
This is fair enough -- when good free alternatives exist. I don't consider Mozilla to be a complete replacement for Netscape quite yet. I don't know about the other non-free packages.
2) If the task of providing becomes too onerous. For instance, disk space. There must be GIGABYTES of non-free Linux software out there, even if you only count the items that have debian packages.
Someone on the debian-devel list said that non-free takes up approximately 10% of the debian ftp site size. The way debian main is growing, this percentage is very likely to decrease. Disk space was not a common 'pro' choice for this proposal on debian-devel, although the against crowd were saying that it should not warrant carrying out this proposal.
Also, non-free does not get updated nearly as often as main does, so there is much less work required for the mirror sites to remain in sync with non-free as there is for main.
Remember, Debian IS running a charity here. Why should a charity promote (in the money-making sense) other people's software?
Firstly, non-free does not mean 'costs money'. It generally means 'free beer, not free speech'. Secondly, Debian's Social Contract states that the interests of the user are first priority. Clearly the maintenence of the non-free section is for the benefit of the end user.
Do yourself a big favour and check out what is actually in non-free before you pass judgement on it.
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
I've been lurking on the debian-devel list for a few months now, and I followed this thread pretty much from the beginning.
The proposal is basically to remove non-free from the debian archives, and remove references to 'non-free' in the Debian Social Contract.
The main points for the proposal are:
non-free isn't free, so Debian shouldn't support it in any way
there are alternatives to non-free software in main
non-free packages would still exist, but would be maintained by a 3rd party
Against:
Contrib section would be or would become broken because the non-free packages they depend on would no longer be under the control of the Debian bug tracking system
New users would find it more difficult to install useful non-free applications (Netscape, JDK etc) because they would have to find the 3rd party archive, add a line to their sources.list etc.
While alternatives to non-free software do exist in main (ie Mozilla for Netscape), these alternatives are not all fully stable/functional/complete.
My opinion is that non-free and the social contract should remain as is. Free software will continue to be developed - one day it will not be necessary to debate this decision because all of the non-free software will have a better free alternative. It isn't the right time for this proposal at the moment.
In the meantime, it doesn't make sense to carry out this proposal because it only harms the users of Debian.
ObDisclaimer: I'm not a Debian developer, just a lowly Debian user.
-- "You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!" - CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Slashdot Mirror
blah blah blah Trustworthy Computing, blah blah, Trustworthy Computing, blah blah blah blah, Trustworthy Computing...
Did you ever notice how you never see Tim Berners-Lee and CowboyNeal in the same room together???
Pretty freaky stuff...
--
"Chiswick! Fresh horses!"
You can find the Midpoint algorithm, a fast variant of Bresenham's algorithm here.
--
"Chiswick! Fresh horses!"
Everyone knows that the biggest obstacle to getting Windows onto the desktop is application support. Being able to run the plethora of Linux applications on Windows is a step in the right direction.
Soon Windows users will be able to stop using Linux forever. World domination!
The main thing is to get important applications like OpenOffice working under Windows, to allow people to make the switch, then develop proprietary replacements to forever release the user from the tyrany of open/free software!!!
Long live Bill Gates!
--
"Chiswick! Fresh horses!"
Hey, go easy on the guy! He's probably an Alanis Morriset fan ;)
--
"Chiswick! Fresh horses!"
But why do I get the following error when I visit http://www.ihateapple.com?
Server Application Error
The server has reached the maximum recovery limit for the application during the processing of your request. Please contact the server administrator for assistance. HTTP/1.1 500 Server Error Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 06:59:57 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 93 The remote procedure call failed.
--
"Chiswick! Fresh horses!"
CmdrTaco... what have you done this time????
--
CmdrTaco broke my sig.
So here it is!
--
CmdrTaco broke my sig.
Cygnus - one of the very first open source companies, and the maintainer of gcc - was profitable for many years. Of course, now it's owned by RedHat.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
The cows in Salzburg are awesome. There's about 150 of them scattered around everywhere.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Yeah, he's an expert, which is why he uses Microsoft Outlook.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
It's obvious that you are not aware of the meaning of the words "stable" and "unstable" as they relate to Debian. Slink is "stable" because it's packages do not change much (Slink has been updated for security reasons and Y2K stuff, that's about it). Woody is "unstable" because it's packages get updated frequently (like, every day).
Yes, it does look like Potato will be released just before 2.4, so it will miss out on it initially. However, it will probably contain 2.4 in a future minor release (like when 2.4 actually gets released). There shouldn't be much to it -- I'm running 2.3.99 pre8 (okay so it's a little old) on a stock Potato system with no upgrades required from when I was running 2.2.
It's interesting that you make a comment here about the services that are active in a default install ("OpenBSD, secure by default, requires the admin to do things to make it less secure"). Your article did not touch on that issue at all.
You'd get to sleep all of your 8 hours if only you installed Debian on all 6 of your linux servers. apt-get - the greatest system administration tool ever.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Yes, Debian has not had a stable release for some time.
If you want cutting edge, you use the unstable branch. More than 'probably very useable' - it's more up-to-date than say RedHat because it's continually being updated (hence the name "unstable")
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Some of us on the SLUG (Sydney Linux Users Group) have had words with the author of this review, mostly about his treatment towards Debian.
Here is a section of the mail header of one of the author's messages:
Reply-To: "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com>
From: "Kurt Seifried" <seifried@securityportal.com>
To: [slug address removed]
References: [removed to protect the innocent]
Subject: Re: [SLUG] A comment on Linux Security Reviews
Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 01:36:25 -0600
Organization: SecurityPortal
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
I think that's where this comes in?
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
A good profiling build and a run under a profiler would go a long way towards fixing your problem...
Try submitting it as a bug to the gnome team. It'd probably be fixed in the next version.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
It's German for 'Day'. It's in Stuttgart, after all.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
IMO, life's too short not to switch operating systems! There's no point banging your head against the wall for the rest of your life...
I'm suspicious of any engineer with an attitude like that. I'm an engineer myself. Part of our job is to keep up with current technologies.
What if the designers of computers way back when said "Life's too short to switch from valves to transistors"???
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
There are certainly more areas for innovation on a desktop than just the 'look' of it.
For example, I thought the symbols used for non-readable (glasses with red cross) and non-writable (broken pencil) were quite intuitive -- and certainly not MS-like.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
I am king of plow
I should write no more Haikus
'cause they are real bad
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
Windows API
Is what we would like from them
Microsoft sucks rocks
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
This is fair enough -- when good free alternatives exist. I don't consider Mozilla to be a complete replacement for Netscape quite yet. I don't know about the other non-free packages.
2) If the task of providing becomes too onerous. For instance, disk space. There must be GIGABYTES of non-free Linux software out there, even if you only count the items that have debian packages.
Someone on the debian-devel list said that non-free takes up approximately 10% of the debian ftp site size. The way debian main is growing, this percentage is very likely to decrease. Disk space was not a common 'pro' choice for this proposal on debian-devel, although the against crowd were saying that it should not warrant carrying out this proposal.
Also, non-free does not get updated nearly as often as main does, so there is much less work required for the mirror sites to remain in sync with non-free as there is for main.
Remember, Debian IS running a charity here. Why should a charity promote (in the money-making sense) other people's software?
Firstly, non-free does not mean 'costs money'. It generally means 'free beer, not free speech'.
Secondly, Debian's Social Contract states that the interests of the user are first priority. Clearly the maintenence of the non-free section is for the benefit of the end user.
Do yourself a big favour and check out what is actually in non-free before you pass judgement on it.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.
The proposal is basically to remove non-free from the debian archives, and remove references to 'non-free' in the Debian Social Contract.
The main points for the proposal are:
Against:
My opinion is that non-free and the social contract should remain as is. Free software will continue to be developed - one day it will not be necessary to debate this decision because all of the non-free software will have a better free alternative. It isn't the right time for this proposal at the moment.
In the meantime, it doesn't make sense to carry out this proposal because it only harms the users of Debian.
ObDisclaimer: I'm not a Debian developer, just a lowly Debian user.
--
"You take a distribution! Rename! Stamp CD's! IPO!"
- CmdrTaco, Geeks in Space, Episode 2 from 6:18 to 6:23.