The companies I have met with would rather spend the 1500 to get a pripriatory license then have to worry about a gpl thing. One place even expected me to spend 4K on devel software and wern't sure what to do when I didn't spend any of it.
I am sorry but I just have to argue. Compiling kde source on my own has never ever been a problem. I would get qt,./configure, make Grab any and all kde packages that I want and run./configure; make; make install. As long as you install kdelibs first that is the only problems I have ever had. Oh and it has worked with cvs co too. This compared to the times when I have tried to get gnome I have had to go all over the net and get a ton of packages who all seem to be unrelated only to find that package a requires b which requires a!!! I gave up on gnome with that. You can complain about gnome, but not kde. hehe and you can talk to my roomate who tried to compile gnucash hahaha!
My home page http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/ has been entirly copied unto virtuadub's site. If they has ssi on you could see all of it. They must have liked the layout of my site that quite a bit. A wierd sensation wakeing up and seeing my website on some other server.
trolling through the forest all day long...
on
The Superior Motif?
·
· Score: 3
Wow, um where to start. I can't believe this got on slashdot. On the question of Is Motif experiencing any kind of resurgence associated with the current Linux wave? he avoids it and talks about how linux people don't like licenses. From what I have been able to gather I don't know of where motif is being used now. gtk and qt have been put just about everywhere. With QT embedded running around why do you even need X any more let alone motiff!
Not to beat a dead horse and spit on it and drive over it with a druck, but motif is ugly. Always has been and always will be by default. Fountain talks about user interface, but he is such a hipocrit when the only thing gtk and qt people agree on is that the ui sucks for motif. If that isn't powerfull I don't know what is. While we are here, has he even done any research into the "No user design guides in linux" How about
(Sorry don't know of any gtk ones off the top of my head) I think I should write an article that says that motif sucks and has no support and is dieing. It may not be true, but then again I didn't do any research so I can't say it is false! NEXT!
Componants, companants componants. Hmm would I rather have 650 componants or 30 well thought out componants. They may have 650, but that just would confuse the user don't you think? I would rather see less that are more standard. Whiel I am at it sense they have had time to make all those componants why don't they spend time on there damm ui and make it better. heck just the file dialog, anything! Even gtk's is better (qt is still better, but KDE's tops the cake) I could rant on this for a while but you all get the point.
there is no commercial GUI builder for Qt What rock has he been under. Ok so you don't have to count glade as a commercial vendor, but what about QT's, Designer??? Last I checked that was made by qt, who is... wait for it... a commercial organization. There was also kde studio from the kompany, and that ptyhon qt linux/windows app who's name slips my mind.
OK Internationalization. I know that as of 1.3 gtk had the internationaliation stuff in and working. And way back as of qt 2 all the char's were 32bit so that is that argument. Heck wait a sec he has none. There are powerfull translation tools for qt and gtk and from what I know they both do layout. It is only with netscape 4 that I remember having translation issues, wait wasn't that done in Motif...
Bla why am I even wasting my time. I just shake my head when I see stuff like this.
I must say that I agree with everyone who talks about how good konq has become. I used to use Netscape 4.x all the time. Then when my GlibC libs didn't want to work with netscape I was forced to used konq. Two weeks later when I had everything sorted out I found konq to be so much more then netscape had been. Faster loading, less memory, faster rendering. I couldn't see myself going back. One of the best parts is that because I run kde the entire enviorment has 1 theme. The browser looks and acts the same as the rest of my desktop. And libs that are used in konq are used in other applications making the total memory usage of my system less. That in itself is worth quite a bit (common ui accross my desktop). I have tried Mozzilla a number of times over the past year, but each time it was less then what I needed. Who knows if this is better then my current konq (kde 2.1.1) , but at this point I havn't found a page (for me personally) that my current konq can't handle and konq looks the same as everything else. When I try out mozzilla I am sure that it will load 30 extra mb of xml, ui, and the backend portable libraries. I know that these are good and all, but I don't really care for all that. All I want it a simple clean browser and so far konq does that for me. I will await the.9 reviews. (and take a look at it myself)
What I am curius about and what probably many of you out there also want to know is if there will be a collectors box of all 1-6 dvd movies. (Just like the box set for the VHS) As each movie was released 6..5..4..3..2.. and now 1 I kept putting off buying them simply because they might make a box and I don't want to buy them twice. I know about the next gen box set that is out there, but there will be more next gen.:) So does anyone know if I didn't wait in vain and a box set will be released?
While we are at it does anyone know if there will be DVD box sets of the seasons of Original and Next gen when they are done being put out?
Granted the current American transformers (Beast Wars) are really bad I agree. Over in japan there is a new series called Car Transformers or as they have been dubed here transformers 2000. I special ordered a large number of them and had them sent to me here. They look like the origianl transformers in the good looking cars trucks, and trains. But When you transformer them it isn't as simple as flip them up on there back, they are MUCH much better in that regard. Heck it took me a good 20 minutes to figure one of them out the first time. I give them praise for that. Oh and for all you that love merge groups the train set is a just such a set. Lets hope that they bring it to america. You can find the vcd's of the episodes on e-bay.
To Top it off they have re-released a number of transformers. Optimus Prime, Ultra magnus, Hot Rod, and a repaint of Fort Max the transformer that is over 2 feet tall. Megatron will be re-released in June for all you that want him (me oh me!).
Oh and for those that don't know tranformers The Movie DVD was recently put out and you can grab it on amazon or your favorite place to grab those sort of things.
Just a note on one of those. In KDE 2.x it is as simple as browsing smb:\\ to do samba work. I think you can cross that one off your list. Every single smb app before this time has had you set up a million options before even browsing. apluase for the kde team.
Does anyone know what is happening with the linux standard base? Are the main distrobutions embarcing it? I havn't heard anything on websites. If not, why not or when?
No I am not just blowing smoke. Being a big multimedia application our application is quite huge and touches many areas. We have many kernal calls, X calls, asm, c, C++, and a number of different configurations to attempt to get the best performace on a machine. using 2.2.x we have to patch the kernel, but first we have to patch it or something (I didn't look into this aspect). The compiler was compleatly unable to compile the code. There were X files that were missing and or not what they should have been. It was just one thing after another that wouldn't work. We came to the conclution that it wasn't worth the time nor effort to get it to work on redhat 7.0. We will attempt again at 7.1, but who knows.
I have been developing an application these past 6 months under redhat 6.2 and looked forward to 7.0.
Unfortunettly becuase of the way that everything is cvs quality / hacked / part this part that we have concluded that there is really no was for us to use redhat 7.0. From the kernal files being messed up, X3 and 4 kludged together, and a compiler that never would have seen a real box if it wasn't for redhat we have been virtually unable to get any sort of a build made. This does not mention the other issues we encountered.
Even though companies all "standerdize" on redhat I can say that we now don't.
I've yet to hear reports of a working, let alone robust DVD player for this "desktop" operating system.
Well OMS isn't robust by any standard, but you have the three other comercial systems. They all demoed at LinuxExpo in Tiawan last month. I submitted this to slashdot before, but it wasn't posted. Intervideo, MGI and Cyberlink. They all seemed to have fully working systems up and running. Wonder when they will release?
When I started the prjoject Kaim (The Kaim website:http://www.csh.rit.edu/~be nja min/benjamin/works/kaim/.) we didn't create any formal docs on the design, but several weeks were spent deciding what features would go in and what would be left out for 1.0 This of course has changed a tiny bit, but for the most part it has stayed the same.
I would imagine that a lot of other open source applications work this way. They may not have design docs for everything, but they have a list of feature that are wanted for 1.0. The prolems arise when the developers start adding every feature under the sun when they think about them, rather then getting what they have in good shape.
To go along with that. I am working on the kaim client team (An TOC client for the record). There is currently a $50 reward for who ever can find this leak that continously eats away at the app. You can go here for me info:
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/benjamin/works/ kaim/
The reward has been up for a week and so far no one has been able to find it.
For those that did not know: KDevelop has has a design tool for quite some time. As far back as last year at.4 (can't remember farther). Granted it didn't do as many features as this did, but it was very good and I have used it (the designer and KDevelop) for over a dozen projects. I looked at Glade at the time to see how good it was and it seemed to be missing things that the KDevelop designer had. Granted that could be different now. For those that missed it TrollTech was deminstrating it at LinuxExpo. I had heard of it before, but didn't have a chance to test it out. I played around on it for a few mintues at the expo. I was quite surprised and when I start my next project will use it. I am sure that I will save quite a bit of time off of development using it. I also took a look at the code that it spits out the end. Formatted nicly even with comments so after I can go in and edit to my hearts content. Over all it is a nice addition to my toolbelt.
Just for those that might not know, Kaim recently was released. Still a developer release, but not bad. You can check it out at: http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/benjamin/works/ kaim/.
Back in the days I remember going to Tom's hardware. First it was just for overclocking. Then to every bit of hardware. I could allways count on the latest intel price roadmap. This is back in the day when Tom accually did the web site. Before it had a million adds and. I have known about this "car" thing for a long time. When I saw that Tom was going to do that and let others take over Toms Hardware (Don't get me started on the book...) I knew that the day of "Toms Hardware" had come and gone. Granted they still post articles, but they do nothing more then a million other little hardware sites do. Back in the day when it was only Anon and Tom. They were allways trying to up each other. And we all got more information because of it. This is one site that did not improve with popularity.
As I have moved to Linux development toolkits have been a primary thought. I have dabbeled in gtk and even tried my hand at motif once, but it was QT that I kept coming back to. I was not looking to sell my software under windows and so the qpl was more then fine for me. I found the qt toolkit suited me completly. I heard arguments that motif is better and gtk is better etc etc. Personally I never liked motif for one reason and one reason only. It is ugly. Ok, maybe it is a great toolkit, but it is still ugly. A funny as it is the original reason I got into Linux in the first place was that kde's toolbars could horizontal shade before win98 did(plug goes to a Chris I met randomly at the computer cafe for interducintg me to Linux). How ironic that I switch to Linux because it looks better? For that same reason I was first trying my coding hand at qt way back in the day. I recently took another look at motif now that I was beyond that "look isn't this cool" three year faze. Realizing that it cost money to develop for motif closed the door on that toolkit in my mind. I continued working on my qt projects. I have spoken to a number of people who ask the question, so what toolkit should I use? This gets asked in a lot of commercial places also. To my dismay they have all chossen motif simply because it is everywhere even if it is ugly. I a previus slashdot article someone commented that maybe motif would just die because of its closed sourse. We all knew that it wouldn't happend, but we also knew that in a small way was true. The motif toolkit wasn't progressing that fast and was quite closed source. With this anouncement it makes a lot of people take another look at motif, myself included. As sad of a statement as it is I hope some people go and pretty up motif. Along with everything else obscure bugs might be fixed. Even thought I am not the greatest coder by any means I can happily say that I found and reported two very obscure bugs in qt that I never would have found withouth the source. (and yes in the new release they are patched:) It should be an interesting watch to see what happens with motif. By no means will I stop working with qt and gtk, but I will be keeping a eye out for future motif releases. Who knows what might come of this.
I accually have a player in the works that will be done by the end of next week. It works to the LinuxDVD API specs, so as soon as this is converted into the standard the player will be able to work:) Read above for the two companies that are releasing DVD hardware cards in December. Yes other companies need to too. HOPEFULLY they will use the API that is allready in place. I player is allready skinable etc.:) If any of you patition them or even inquire ask them to follow the API that is allready in place. standards standars!
Slashdot Mirror
The companies I have met with would rather spend the 1500 to get a pripriatory license then have to worry about a gpl thing. One place even expected me to spend 4K on devel software and wern't sure what to do when I didn't spend any of it.
I am sorry but I just have to argue. Compiling kde source on my own has never ever been a problem. I would get qt, ./configure, make Grab any and all kde packages that I want and run ./configure; make; make install. As long as you install kdelibs first that is the only problems I have ever had. Oh and it has worked with cvs co too. This compared to the times when I have tried to get gnome I have had to go all over the net and get a ton of packages who all seem to be unrelated only to find that package a requires b which requires a!!! I gave up on gnome with that. You can complain about gnome, but not kde. hehe and you can talk to my roomate who tried to compile gnucash hahaha!
ooops my bad. Turns out some funky thing is happening to my router... Adding to my todo list to fix....
nope, I tried with ie, netscape and even wget and I am getting my web site!
My home page http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/ has been entirly copied unto virtuadub's site. If they has ssi on you could see all of it. They must have liked the layout of my site that quite a bit. A wierd sensation wakeing up and seeing my website on some other server.
Wow, um where to start. I can't believe this got on slashdot. On the question of Is Motif experiencing any kind of resurgence associated with the current Linux wave? he avoids it and talks about how linux people don't like licenses. From what I have been able to gather I don't know of where motif is being used now. gtk and qt have been put just about everywhere. With QT embedded running around why do you even need X any more let alone motiff!
s /k de/style/basics/index.html
i /i ndex.html
... wait for it... a commercial organization. There was also kde studio from the kompany, and that ptyhon qt linux/windows app who's name slips my mind.
Not to beat a dead horse and spit on it and drive over it with a druck, but motif is ugly. Always has been and always will be by default. Fountain talks about user interface, but he is such a hipocrit when the only thing gtk and qt people agree on is that the ui sucks for motif. If that isn't powerfull I don't know what is. While we are here, has he even done any research into the "No user design guides in linux" How about
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standard
or
http://developer.kde.org/documentation/design/u
(Sorry don't know of any gtk ones off the top of my head) I think I should write an article that says that motif sucks and has no support and is dieing. It may not be true, but then again I didn't do any research so I can't say it is false! NEXT!
Componants, companants componants. Hmm would I rather have 650 componants or 30 well thought out componants. They may have 650, but that just would confuse the user don't you think? I would rather see less that are more standard. Whiel I am at it sense they have had time to make all those componants why don't they spend time on there damm ui and make it better. heck just the file dialog, anything! Even gtk's is better (qt is still better, but KDE's tops the cake) I could rant on this for a while but you all get the point.
there is no commercial GUI builder for Qt What rock has he been under. Ok so you don't have to count glade as a commercial vendor, but what about QT's, Designer??? Last I checked that was made by qt, who is
OK Internationalization. I know that as of 1.3 gtk had the internationaliation stuff in and working. And way back as of qt 2 all the char's were 32bit so that is that argument. Heck wait a sec he has none. There are powerfull translation tools for qt and gtk and from what I know they both do layout. It is only with netscape 4 that I remember having translation issues, wait wasn't that done in Motif...
Bla why am I even wasting my time. I just shake my head when I see stuff like this.
I must say that I agree with everyone who talks about how good konq has become. I used to use Netscape 4.x all the time. Then when my GlibC libs didn't want to work with netscape I was forced to used konq. Two weeks later when I had everything sorted out I found konq to be so much more then netscape had been. Faster loading, less memory, faster rendering. I couldn't see myself going back. One of the best parts is that because I run kde the entire enviorment has 1 theme. The browser looks and acts the same as the rest of my desktop. And libs that are used in konq are used in other applications making the total memory usage of my system less. That in itself is worth quite a bit (common ui accross my desktop). I have tried Mozzilla a number of times over the past year, but each time it was less then what I needed. Who knows if this is better then my current konq (kde 2.1.1) , but at this point I havn't found a page (for me personally) that my current konq can't handle and konq looks the same as everything else. When I try out mozzilla I am sure that it will load 30 extra mb of xml, ui, and the backend portable libraries. I know that these are good and all, but I don't really care for all that. All I want it a simple clean browser and so far konq does that for me. I will await the .9 reviews. (and take a look at it myself)
What I am curius about and what probably many of you out there also want to know is if there will be a collectors box of all 1-6 dvd movies. (Just like the box set for the VHS) As each movie was released 6..5..4..3..2.. and now 1 I kept putting off buying them simply because they might make a box and I don't want to buy them twice. I know about the next gen box set that is out there, but there will be more next gen. :) So does anyone know if I didn't wait in vain and a box set will be released?
While we are at it does anyone know if there will be DVD box sets of the seasons of Original and Next gen when they are done being put out?
Granted the current American transformers (Beast Wars) are really bad I agree. Over in japan there is a new series called Car Transformers or as they have been dubed here transformers 2000. I special ordered a large number of them and had them sent to me here. They look like the origianl transformers in the good looking cars trucks, and trains. But When you transformer them it isn't as simple as flip them up on there back, they are MUCH much better in that regard. Heck it took me a good 20 minutes to figure one of them out the first time. I give them praise for that. Oh and for all you that love merge groups the train set is a just such a set. Lets hope that they bring it to america. You can find the vcd's of the episodes on e-bay.
To Top it off they have re-released a number of transformers. Optimus Prime, Ultra magnus, Hot Rod, and a repaint of Fort Max the transformer that is over 2 feet tall. Megatron will be re-released in June for all you that want him (me oh me!).
Oh and for those that don't know tranformers The Movie DVD was recently put out and you can grab it on amazon or your favorite place to grab those sort of things.
Just a note on one of those. In KDE 2.x it is as simple as browsing smb:\\ to do samba work. I think you can cross that one off your list. Every single smb app before this time has had you set up a million options before even browsing. apluase for the kde team.
Does anyone know what is happening with the linux standard base? Are the main distrobutions embarcing it? I havn't heard anything on websites. If not, why not or when?
No I am not just blowing smoke. Being a big multimedia application our application is quite huge and touches many areas. We have many kernal calls, X calls, asm, c, C++, and a number of different configurations to attempt to get the best performace on a machine. using 2.2.x we have to patch the kernel, but first we have to patch it or something (I didn't look into this aspect). The compiler was compleatly unable to compile the code. There were X files that were missing and or not what they should have been. It was just one thing after another that wouldn't work. We came to the conclution that it wasn't worth the time nor effort to get it to work on redhat 7.0. We will attempt again at 7.1, but who knows.
I have been developing an application these past 6 months under redhat 6.2 and looked forward to 7.0.
Unfortunettly becuase of the way that everything is cvs quality / hacked / part this part that we have concluded that there is really no was for us to use redhat 7.0. From the kernal files being messed up, X3 and 4 kludged together, and a compiler that never would have seen a real box if it wasn't for redhat we have been virtually unable to get any sort of a build made. This does not mention the other issues we encountered.
Even though companies all "standerdize" on redhat I can say that we now don't.
Well OMS isn't robust by any standard, but you have the three other comercial systems. They all demoed at LinuxExpo in Tiawan last month. I submitted this to slashdot before, but it wasn't posted. Intervideo, MGI and Cyberlink. They all seemed to have fully working systems up and running. Wonder when they will release?
http://www.intervideo.com/
http://www.mgisoft.com/
http://www.cyberlink.com.tw/
When I started the prjoject Kaim (The Kaim website:http://www.csh.rit.edu/~be nja min/benjamin/works/kaim/.) we didn't create any formal docs on the design, but several weeks were spent deciding what features would go in and what would be left out for 1.0 This of course has changed a tiny bit, but for the most part it has stayed the same.
I would imagine that a lot of other open source applications work this way. They may not have design docs for everything, but they have a list of feature that are wanted for 1.0. The prolems arise when the developers start adding every feature under the sun when they think about them, rather then getting what they have in good shape.
To go along with that. I am working on the kaim client team (An TOC client for the record). There is currently a $50 reward for who ever can find this leak that continously eats away at the app. You can go here for me info:
/ kaim/
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/benjamin/works
The reward has been up for a week and so far no one has been able to find it.
-Benjamin Meyer
For those that did not know: KDevelop has has a design tool for quite some time. As far back as last year at .4 (can't remember farther). Granted it didn't do as many features as this did, but it was very good and I have used it (the designer and KDevelop) for over a dozen projects. I looked at Glade at the time to see how good it was and it seemed to be missing things that the KDevelop designer had. Granted that could be different now. For those that missed it TrollTech was deminstrating it at LinuxExpo. I had heard of it before, but didn't have a chance to test it out. I played around on it for a few mintues at the expo. I was quite surprised and when I start my next project will use it. I am sure that I will save quite a bit of time off of development using it. I also took a look at the code that it spits out the end. Formatted nicly even with comments so after I can go in and edit to my hearts content. Over all it is a nice addition to my toolbelt.
Just for those that might not know, Kaim recently was released. Still a developer release, but not bad. You can check it out at:/ kaim/.
http://www.csh.rit.edu/~benjamin/benjamin/works
Back in the days I remember going to Tom's hardware. First it was just for overclocking. Then to every bit of hardware. I could allways count on the latest intel price roadmap. This is back in the day when Tom accually did the web site. Before it had a million adds and. I have known about this "car" thing for a long time. When I saw that Tom was going to do that and let others take over Toms Hardware (Don't get me started on the book...) I knew that the day of "Toms Hardware" had come and gone. Granted they still post articles, but they do nothing more then a million other little hardware sites do. Back in the day when it was only Anon and Tom. They were allways trying to up each other. And we all got more information because of it. This is one site that did not improve with popularity.
As I have moved to Linux development toolkits have been a primary thought. I have dabbeled in gtk and even tried my hand at motif once, but it was QT that I kept coming back to. I was not looking to sell my software under windows and so the qpl was more then fine for me. I found the qt toolkit suited me completly. :) It should be an interesting watch to see what happens with motif.
I heard arguments that motif is better and gtk is better etc etc. Personally I never liked motif for one reason and one reason only. It is ugly. Ok, maybe it is a great toolkit, but it is still ugly. A funny as it is the original reason I got into Linux in the first place was that kde's toolbars could horizontal shade before win98 did(plug goes to a Chris I met randomly at the computer cafe for interducintg me to Linux). How ironic that I switch to Linux because it looks better? For that same reason I was first trying my coding hand at qt way back in the day. I recently took another look at motif now that I was beyond that "look isn't this cool" three year faze. Realizing that it cost money to develop for motif closed the door on that toolkit in my mind. I continued working on my qt projects. I have spoken to a number of people who ask the question, so what toolkit should I use? This gets asked in a lot of commercial places also. To my dismay they have all chossen motif simply because it is everywhere even if it is ugly. I a previus slashdot article someone commented that maybe motif would just die because of its closed sourse. We all knew that it wouldn't happend, but we also knew that in a small way was true. The motif toolkit wasn't progressing that fast and was quite closed source.
With this anouncement it makes a lot of people take another look at motif, myself included. As sad of a statement as it is I hope some people go and pretty up motif. Along with everything else obscure bugs might be fixed. Even thought I am not the greatest coder by any means I can happily say that I found and reported two very obscure bugs in qt that I never would have found withouth the source. (and yes in the new release they are patched
By no means will I stop working with qt and gtk, but I will be keeping a eye out for future motif releases. Who knows what might come of this.
How is this offtopic???
The drivers were released and so I am going to install it and may have a problem. shesh Thus I ask it here.
recompile
yes it works with SCSI cd-roms
I accually have a player in the works that will be done by the end of next week. It works to the LinuxDVD API specs, so as soon as this is converted into the standard the player will be able to work :) Read above for the two companies that are releasing DVD hardware cards in December. Yes other companies need to too. HOPEFULLY they will use the API that is allready in place. I player is allready skinable etc. :) If any of you patition them or even inquire ask them to follow the API that is allready in place. standards standars!
same things here. I don't have any WB titles