I have been in IT for an embarrassingly long 28 years. I have seen shortages, and gluts, of IT workers. I have seen strong economies and recessions, I have seen technologies and products come and go.
But one thing never changes, those with a clear agenda: dice, msft, ibm, robert half, tech schools, etc. always claim that IT is great field, and now is a great time to get into IT. These claims are often backed up with some sort of dubious numbers. Speaking as somebody with a degree in math, who has worked on credit scoring systems, and the like, I can assure you that there are people who can make the numbers say whatever somebody wants the numbers to say. Did you know that every time a company requests an h1b, another 5 US jobs are created? It's true, it was in a think-tank report, and bill gates quoted those statistics before the US congress. But, you never seem to see these "happy happy joy joy" surveys from those who don't have an obvious agenda.
Often the claim is that there is some new technology, that will take over the world, and in the near future there will be desperate shortages of people who are qualified to support that technology.
IMO: unless something unforeseen, and unforeseeable, happens, stick a fork in the US IT job market - it's done.
You can probably find a dozen of these types of optimistic articles on any given day. Here is another one from exec at dice.com:
"These products offer real-time interface solutions preferred by travel companies world-wide for reservations, ticketing, check-in and a multitude of other business functions."
A commercial service will probably do a better job of filtering spam than any in-house solution. Commercial services use very high-level processes, techniques, and software. Commercial services constantly update virus filters and the like. Such services are not that expensive.
Notice all the application for the construction industry, property management, inventory management, point of sale, and so on? All of those apps integrate with QB. Now tell me there is something similar in gnucash.
GNUCash may be okay for an individual, or a mom-and-pop operation, but I don't see where it is adequate for complicated medium business.
> Cost advantage, at some time you will need the Quickbooks Pro $199 version and that Amazon.com coupon expired.
I see QB 2008 Pro at Amazon for $125. There is still a free version of QB 2008. And even $199 is not prohibitively expensive.
> Ease of use, both Quickbooks and GNUCash have a user friendly GUI. Have you actually ever used GNUCash?
There is more to ease of use than that.
> Payroll, RTFM about Payroll [gnucash.org] obviously you never read the manual, n00b!
Okay this is directly from TFM: "GnuCash does not (yet) have an integrated payroll system. What this means is that while you can track payroll expenses in GnuCash, the actual calculation of taxes and deductions will have to be done outside of GnuCash."
> Taxes, GNUCash uses the EU term VAT [gnucash.org] and the FAQ covers accounting questions including tax questions [gnucash.org] and GNUCash supports taxes.
Does gnucash make anything like turbotax that directly plugs into the accounting system?
> Major company, hah Slashdot you are using it is built with open source software and it isn't a major company
WTF does that have to do with anything? When companies buy accounting software, they often want a major company behind the software. That has nothing to with what website I visit.
> Support, yes tons of it if you know how to read manuals and FAQS, which obviously you don't.
There is much more to support than that. Besides, it's not about what *I* want, it is what SMBs want.
> Training availability and costs, most GNUCash training is free over the Internet in Wiki sites and PDF files. Books are written on it as well.
There is more to "training" than documentation.
> Accountants recommendation, accountants recommended and gave support to X-Accountant which GNUCash is based on and existed before Quickbooks.
From what I have read, and seen, accountants over-whelming recommend QB.
> 3rd Party integration, if you read the FAQs and Manual, you'll know it integrates with OfficeOffice.org very well as Excel and other software, as well as has an API that programmers can follow to write plugins.
How about my ecomm web-site? How about hundreds, maybe thousands, of applications like MRP systems, property management, inventory management, job costing, and so on?
> Next time do your own homework before you dis a FOSS software.
I am not dis'ing anything. Would I be dis'ing Linux if I stated that Linux has less than 2% of the desktop market, and Linux does not run many applications that many people consider important?
Very few people consider Linux a viable alternative on the desktop, it's a fact, live with it. Similarly very few people consider GNUCash a viable alternative to QB.
What is the point of that post? What is it supposed to prove?
Are you trying to say that MYOB, or whatever, is more popular that QB? If so, I would love to see your source. I don't mean wikipedia, I mean the primary source that made such a determination.
> I don't think he really knows what GNUCash really is
Do you really know what an SMB really is? An SMB is not necessarily a mom-and-pop operation. An SMB might have 250 employees, and have 250 million a year in revenue. An SMB might need a multi-level MRP system, or job costing, or payroll, or sophisticated inventory management, or integration with an ecommerce system, or any of great number of other things that are not provided by gnucash.
> Besides what other Accounting software exists for Linux?
That is my point. Accounting software is vital to any SMB, and there seems to be no viable accounting software for SMBs that is not msft based. In the USA, intuit has about 80% of the market, the other 20% belongs to sage and msft. Linux SMB accounting software includes: SQL-Ledger, LedgerSMB, Compiere, and TinyERP. None of them will do what QB will do.
I desperately wish there was an alternative to Intuit for SMBs. I especially wish there was an alternative for Linux.
Unfortunately, even msft can not put a dent in intuit's strangle-hold on that market. As I understand it, intuit controls well over 80% of the SMB market for accounting software, the rest of the market is split between sage and msft. If I am wrong about that, please set me straight - and provide your source.
If there is a f/oss alternative, what is it? Please make sure that alternative has:
- an extensive network of consultants - an extensive network of developers - add-ons for practically everything any SMB might want - payroll, taxes, etc. - can match all of QB's features, reporting, check printing, connecting with banks, etc.
BTW: I use debian as home desktop. I have a Linux certification, and use Linux professionally. Also, if you look at my other posts here, and on desktoplinux, linuxquestions, and elsewhere, you will see that I have been a f/oss supporter for many years.
Again, I wish there was an alternative to intuit, but I just don't see it.
I suppose I should have phrased my original post differently. But, the point still remains: until there is some alternative to the dominate SMB financial software, then mac and Linux have no chance in the SMB market.
* Ease of use: Somewhat debatable. But some people site this as a primary reason for Intuit's amazing success with QuickBooks - supposedly 87% of small businesses use QuickBooks. Although, I have to wonder how the number of foss users can be accurately counted?
* Integration with online banking: my understanding is that only intuit or msft products can easily integrate with online banking. Not absolutely sure about that.
* Payroll: very regional, and changes often == not well suited for foss.
* Taxes: somewhat regional, and changes often == not well suited for foss.
* Wide acceptance: I think most businesses are much more comfortable using products that are accepted standards.
* Wealth of available add-ons: Intuit has a very active community of 3rd party developers. You can buy practically any kind of an add-on you can imagine. These add-ons cost money, but at least they are available.
* Major company: I think a lot of businesses are not comfortable with a product unless there is a major company behind that product. I have to admit, even I am not comfortable with software products that are essentially one man operations.
* Support: I can always hire somebody who knows quickbooks, or find a "ProAdvisor" consultant, or I can get support from the company, and there are hundreds - if not thousands - of developers who specialize in developing for quickbooks. I can not see where that is true for any project.
* Training availability and costs. I can hire people who already know quickbooks. If I hire somebody to work on some foss alternative, then there will be a significant training expense. Of course, there is also the issue of training availability.
* Documentation: If I had to pick one thing that kills the usefulness of more foss projects than anything else, this would win in a slam-dunk. Of course, this varies among projects, some foss projects have great documentation. But, I can always find plenty of books, or other documentation for popular proprietary financial apps.
* Many accountants, maybe as many as 200,000, use QB and recommend it to their clients. Some accountants will charge much more for files that are not in QB format.
* QB has much better 3rd party integration. For example, ecommerce packages like oscommerce, and magento, work with quickbooks, not foss alternatives. Msft accounting works with ebay. I can not find that sort of integration with foss software.
If Mac, or Linux, is to succeed in the SMB market, an alternative to Intuit is needed.
Somewhat surprisingly, Intuit is very hostile to anything non-microsoft. The Mac version of quickbooks does not work very well. The online version of QB was specifically designed to not work with Linux. The enterprise version of QB is certified to run on certain linux distros, but that starts at $3000 USD, whereas the standard version of QB is $130 USD.
I am aware of the f/oss accounting apps, like gnucash, or ledgersmb, but none of those are adaquate for most SMBs. I think a viable alternative to QB would need a good sized company behind it.
Stability? Other Linux distros are just as stable, many have run for years without a hiccup.
Learning? Learn what? If you want to work professionally with Linux, you will find that most businesses want you to know redhat.
I use debian because I think it has the best package management in the business, among other things. If you going to do a better job of manually managing your packages, you are going to have to really fight to stay on top of your system.
>>Without the progress of MS apps we would still be using that same apps that we were using in the early 90s.
I am not sure it's fair to assume that. Msft has cleverly used one monopoly to create another. Msft systematically used it's OS monopoly to drive application competitors out of business.
If not for msft, other business would have created other applications..
Billy Gate: What's this? What this? Documentury? Man right here, this is my business, you know? Sueing, scamming, whatever . . It's slow, you know? Business is off, sales are down. Seems like half my customers . . they don't even need me anymore. They;re getting software free, off the web. How am I supposed to compete with that? Got IT? Well next time something works, don't blame Microsoft! We didn't do it! I wish we did . . .
I thought the idea behind the fast-track was a have less-fussy way of ratifying standards, when those standards were already widely used.
If that is correct, then how does the MSOOXML standard qualify? This is a "standard" that is used by absolutely nobody, not even the creator of the standard uses this standard.
Do I not understand the idea behind the fast-track process?
One the one hand, proprietary companies scoff at F/OSS, claiming that F/OSS market share is insignificant. On the other hand, proprietary companies claim F/OSS is killing their revenue stream.
> What is needed to make your case is a statistical analysis that says C.S. majors earn less and are unable to find work.
Actually no, becuase that was not my case. A BSCS may be employable, but he or she would have been better off to have chosen a different major.
BSCSs may earn more than IT workers who have no degrees, in some cases. But, often there is little, in any, difference. Employers want experience, not degrees, look at the job ads.
Unlike doctors, lawyers, engineers, CPAs, nurses, or many other professions; a BSCS is not a hard requirement for most IT jobs. The degree has very little value relative to it's cost and difficulty. Add that to the aggressive offshoring of IT professionals, and it seems to me that a students time, effort, and money, would be better spent elsewhere.
And here is some data to back that up:
> "According to the AeA Cyberstates yearly reports, "High Tech" employment experienced job losses of 945,000 in the 2001 recession. Since this drop in employment, the "High Tech" sector has recovered about *300,000* jobs, but during the period in question, a probable *669,681* H-1B and L-1 computer-related workers were added to the workforce."
> "Job security for IT professionals plummeted more than 10% from January to February of this year, far surpassing the average job security declines seen nationwide in a rigorous analysis of U.S. employment patterns."
> "Gates claims that Microsoft needs more H-1b to hire new foreign graduates. But there are many U.S. graduates with several years of experience trying to find work at Microsoft and other employers - but Gates does not open these "entry level" positions to these Americans. Why? Experienced Americans are only considered for the positions that require an arbitrary 3 to 7 years of experience in several specific skills - then the Americans are summarily rejected for not meeting all of those arbitrary qualifications."
A BSCS is nearly as difficult as an engineering degree, but as worthless as a liberal arts degree.
At best, a BSCS is a feather in your cap. It is almost never a job requirement. Look at the job ads, employers want tons of very specialized experience. If a BSCS is mentioned at all, it's practically always "or equivalent degree, or equivalent experience. "
Besides, IT is being devastated by cheap offshore labor. Even if you can get a job, can you count on having that job in five years?
Take a look at the dice forums. I could not help but notice how many posts from seeker.dice.com forums are of the same nature. And the situation is just getting worse. Below are just a few recent examples:
"I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT) back in January 2005. After I graduated, I was unable to find a job . . . so in order to pay bills and student loans, I had to get a temp job doing customer service, making $12 an hour"
"I have bachelors degree in computer science. I have 10yrs of experience in software and 5yrs in.net. But now i have been laid of and out of job for past 4 months."
"I graduated with a B.S in Computer Science last year May 2007. Though after applying to hundreds of places I've only gotten a handful of interviews and no IT job as of yet! All my other friends who majored in business or accounting managed to get jobs fairly easily."
Slashdot Mirror
I don't think the article mentions where the survey was conducted.
BTW: here is quick photo of India - you know the place with all "best and brightest" computer geniuses?
http://techtoil.org/
I have been in IT for an embarrassingly long 28 years. I have seen shortages, and gluts, of IT workers. I have seen strong economies and recessions, I have seen technologies and products come and go.
But one thing never changes, those with a clear agenda: dice, msft, ibm, robert half, tech schools, etc. always claim that IT is great field, and now is a great time to get into IT. These claims are often backed up with some sort of dubious numbers. Speaking as somebody with a degree in math, who has worked on credit scoring systems, and the like, I can assure you that there are people who can make the numbers say whatever somebody wants the numbers to say. Did you know that every time a company requests an h1b, another 5 US jobs are created? It's true, it was in a think-tank report, and bill gates quoted those statistics before the US congress. But, you never seem to see these "happy happy joy joy" surveys from those who don't have an obvious agenda.
Often the claim is that there is some new technology, that will take over the world, and in the near future there will be desperate shortages of people who are qualified to support that technology.
IMO: unless something unforeseen, and unforeseeable, happens, stick a fork in the US IT job market - it's done.
You can probably find a dozen of these types of optimistic articles on any given day. Here is another one from exec at dice.com:
http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid183_gci1313503,00.html?track=NL-973&ad=639083&asrc=EM_NLN_3643525&uid=1339323
I think.
"From the SABRE airline reservation system, the first major civilian software project (one that is still running, albeit in a different form)"
http://www.techsoc.com/histsoft.htm
"These products offer real-time interface solutions preferred by travel companies world-wide for reservations, ticketing, check-in and a multitude of other business functions."
http://www.sabreairlinesolutions.com/products/serve/qik.htm
A commercial service will probably do a better job of filtering spam than any in-house solution. Commercial services use very high-level processes, techniques, and software. Commercial services constantly update virus filters and the like. Such services are not that expensive.
Don't be an idiot. Those are the *opinions* of one person. Google quickbooks market share - read it and weep.
Take a look at these sites:
http://marketplace.intuit.com/
http://quickbooks-add-ons.com/
Notice all the application for the construction industry, property management, inventory management, point of sale, and so on? All of those apps integrate with QB. Now tell me there is something similar in gnucash.
GNUCash may be okay for an individual, or a mom-and-pop operation, but I don't see where it is adequate for complicated medium business.
> Cost advantage, at some time you will need the Quickbooks Pro $199 version and that Amazon.com coupon expired.
I see QB 2008 Pro at Amazon for $125. There is still a free version of QB 2008. And even $199 is not prohibitively expensive.
> Ease of use, both Quickbooks and GNUCash have a user friendly GUI. Have you actually ever used GNUCash?
There is more to ease of use than that.
> Payroll, RTFM about Payroll [gnucash.org] obviously you never read the manual, n00b!
Okay this is directly from TFM: "GnuCash does not (yet) have an integrated payroll system. What this means is that while you can track payroll expenses in GnuCash, the actual calculation of taxes and deductions will have to be done outside of GnuCash."
> Taxes, GNUCash uses the EU term VAT [gnucash.org] and the FAQ covers accounting questions including tax questions [gnucash.org] and GNUCash supports taxes.
Does gnucash make anything like turbotax that directly plugs into the accounting system?
> Major company, hah Slashdot you are using it is built with open source software and it isn't a major company
WTF does that have to do with anything? When companies buy accounting software, they often want a major company behind the software. That has nothing to with what website I visit.
> Support, yes tons of it if you know how to read manuals and FAQS, which obviously you don't.
There is much more to support than that. Besides, it's not about what *I* want, it is what SMBs want.
> Training availability and costs, most GNUCash training is free over the Internet in Wiki sites and PDF files. Books are written on it as well.
There is more to "training" than documentation.
> Accountants recommendation, accountants recommended and gave support to X-Accountant which GNUCash is based on and existed before Quickbooks.
From what I have read, and seen, accountants over-whelming recommend QB.
> 3rd Party integration, if you read the FAQs and Manual, you'll know it integrates with OfficeOffice.org very well as Excel and other software, as well as has an API that programmers can follow to write plugins.
How about my ecomm web-site? How about hundreds, maybe thousands, of applications like MRP systems, property management, inventory management, job costing, and so on?
> Next time do your own homework before you dis a FOSS software.
I am not dis'ing anything. Would I be dis'ing Linux if I stated that Linux has less than 2% of the desktop market, and Linux does not run many applications that many people consider important?
Very few people consider Linux a viable alternative on the desktop, it's a fact, live with it. Similarly very few people consider GNUCash a viable alternative to QB.
What is the point of that post? What is it supposed to prove?
Are you trying to say that MYOB, or whatever, is more popular that QB? If so, I would love to see your source. I don't mean wikipedia, I mean the primary source that made such a determination.
> I don't think he really knows what GNUCash really is
Do you really know what an SMB really is? An SMB is not necessarily a mom-and-pop operation. An SMB might have 250 employees, and have 250 million a year in revenue. An SMB might need a multi-level MRP system, or job costing, or payroll, or sophisticated inventory management, or integration with an ecommerce system, or any of great number of other things that are not provided by gnucash.
> Besides what other Accounting software exists for Linux?
That is my point. Accounting software is vital to any SMB, and there seems to be no viable accounting software for SMBs that is not msft based. In the USA, intuit has about 80% of the market, the other 20% belongs to sage and msft. Linux SMB accounting software includes: SQL-Ledger, LedgerSMB, Compiere, and TinyERP. None of them will do what QB will do.
> If the bank uses CSV, QIF, or OFX formated file uploads, it does support online banking. You really need to RTFM before you bash FOSS.
Thank you for correcting me on that. Now what all all the other points I made?
* Cost advantage.
* Ease of use.
* Payroll.
* Taxes.
* Wide acceptance.
* Wealth of available add-ons.
* Major company.
* Support.
* Training availability and costs.
* Accountants recomendation.
* 3rd party integration.
I desperately wish there was an alternative to Intuit for SMBs. I especially wish there was an alternative for Linux.
Unfortunately, even msft can not put a dent in intuit's strangle-hold on that market. As I understand it, intuit controls well over 80% of the SMB market for accounting software, the rest of the market is split between sage and msft. If I am wrong about that, please set me straight - and provide your source.
If there is a f/oss alternative, what is it? Please make sure that alternative has:
- an extensive network of consultants
- an extensive network of developers
- add-ons for practically everything any SMB might want - payroll, taxes, etc.
- can match all of QB's features, reporting, check printing, connecting with banks, etc.
BTW: I use debian as home desktop. I have a Linux certification, and use Linux professionally. Also, if you look at my other posts here, and on desktoplinux, linuxquestions, and elsewhere, you will see that I have been a f/oss supporter for many years.
Again, I wish there was an alternative to intuit, but I just don't see it.
I suppose I should have phrased my original post differently. But, the point still remains: until there is some alternative to the dominate SMB financial software, then mac and Linux have no chance in the SMB market.
What foss financial software seems to be missing:
All of the following is based my limited understanding, and my opinions. Please correct me if I am wrong about any of this.
* Cost advantage: QuickBooks simple start is free:
http://quickbooks.intuit.com/product/accounting-software/free-accounting-software.jhtml
Or I can buy the full version of QuickBooks in only $128:
http://www.qbpro2008.com/quickbooks-2008-coupons-for-amazon/
Seems to me that any cost advantage of using a foss alternative is negligible.
* Ease of use: Somewhat debatable. But some people site this as a primary reason for Intuit's amazing success with QuickBooks - supposedly 87% of small businesses use QuickBooks. Although, I have to wonder how the number of foss users can be accurately counted?
* Integration with online banking: my understanding is that only intuit or msft products can easily integrate with online banking. Not absolutely sure about that.
* Payroll: very regional, and changes often == not well suited for foss.
* Taxes: somewhat regional, and changes often == not well suited for foss.
* Wide acceptance: I think most businesses are much more comfortable using products that are accepted standards.
* Wealth of available add-ons: Intuit has a very active community of 3rd party developers. You can buy practically any kind of an add-on you can imagine. These add-ons cost money, but at least they are available.
* Major company: I think a lot of businesses are not comfortable with a product unless there is a major company behind that product. I have to admit, even I am not comfortable with software products that are essentially one man operations.
* Support: I can always hire somebody who knows quickbooks, or find a "ProAdvisor" consultant, or I can get support from the company, and there are hundreds - if not thousands - of developers who specialize in developing for quickbooks. I can not see where that is true for any project.
* Training availability and costs. I can hire people who already know quickbooks. If I hire somebody to work on some foss alternative, then there will be a significant training expense. Of course, there is also the issue of training availability.
* Documentation: If I had to pick one thing that kills the usefulness of more foss projects than anything else, this would win in a slam-dunk. Of course, this varies among projects, some foss projects have great documentation. But, I can always find plenty of books, or other documentation for popular proprietary financial apps.
* Many accountants, maybe as many as 200,000, use QB and recommend it to their clients. Some accountants will charge much more for files that are not in QB format.
* QB has much better 3rd party integration. For example, ecommerce packages like oscommerce, and magento, work with quickbooks, not foss alternatives. Msft accounting works with ebay. I can not find that sort of integration with foss software.
If Mac, or Linux, is to succeed in the SMB market, an alternative to Intuit is needed.
Somewhat surprisingly, Intuit is very hostile to anything non-microsoft. The Mac version of quickbooks does not work very well. The online version of QB was specifically designed to not work with Linux. The enterprise version of QB is certified to run on certain linux distros, but that starts at $3000 USD, whereas the standard version of QB is $130 USD.
I am aware of the f/oss accounting apps, like gnucash, or ledgersmb, but none of those are adaquate for most SMBs. I think a viable alternative to QB would need a good sized company behind it.
Stability? Other Linux distros are just as stable, many have run for years without a hiccup.
Learning? Learn what? If you want to work professionally with Linux, you will find that most businesses want you to know redhat.
I use debian because I think it has the best package management in the business, among other things. If you going to do a better job of manually managing your packages, you are going to have to really fight to stay on top of your system.
>>Without the progress of MS apps we would still be using that same apps that we were using in the early 90s.
I am not sure it's fair to assume that. Msft has cleverly used one monopoly to create another. Msft systematically used it's OS monopoly to drive application competitors out of business.
If not for msft, other business would have created other applications..
Billy Gate:
What's this? What this? Documentury?
Man right here, this is my business, you know? Sueing, scamming, whatever . .
It's slow, you know? Business is off, sales are down.
Seems like half my customers . . they don't even need me anymore.
They;re getting software free, off the web.
How am I supposed to compete with that?
Got IT? Well next time something works, don't blame Microsoft!
We didn't do it!
I wish we did . . .
WTF does the acid3 test have to do with any of this?
However firefox does with the acid3 has nothing to do with ISO corruption, does it?
My, my, aren't we touchy? Tell me, when was the approved standard widely used? Ever?
Was the original standard widely used?
And why did they change the spec during the BRM?
So please explain how OOXML qualified for the fast-track process?
I thought the idea behind the fast-track was a have less-fussy way of ratifying standards, when those standards were already widely used.
If that is correct, then how does the MSOOXML standard qualify? This is a "standard" that is used by absolutely nobody, not even the creator of the standard uses this standard.
Do I not understand the idea behind the fast-track process?
One the one hand, proprietary companies scoff at F/OSS, claiming that F/OSS market share is insignificant. On the other hand, proprietary companies claim F/OSS is killing their revenue stream.
Which is it?
> What is needed to make your case is a statistical analysis that says C.S. majors earn less and are unable to find work.
Actually no, becuase that was not my case. A BSCS may be employable, but he or she would have been better off to have chosen a different major.
BSCSs may earn more than IT workers who have no degrees, in some cases. But, often there is little, in any, difference. Employers want experience, not degrees, look at the job ads.
Unlike doctors, lawyers, engineers, CPAs, nurses, or many other professions; a BSCS is not a hard requirement for most IT jobs. The degree has very little value relative to it's cost and difficulty. Add that to the aggressive offshoring of IT professionals, and it seems to me that a students time, effort, and money, would be better spent elsewhere.
And here is some data to back that up:
> "According to the AeA Cyberstates yearly reports, "High Tech" employment experienced job losses of 945,000 in the 2001 recession. Since this drop in employment, the "High Tech" sector has recovered about *300,000* jobs, but during the period in question, a probable *669,681* H-1B and L-1 computer-related workers were added to the workforce."
http://tinyurl.com/3pj2c3
> "Job security for IT professionals plummeted more than 10% from January to February of this year, far surpassing the average job security declines seen nationwide in a rigorous analysis of U.S. employment patterns."
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/edu/2008/033108ed1.html
> "Gates claims that Microsoft needs more H-1b to hire new foreign graduates. But there are many U.S. graduates with several years of experience trying to find work at Microsoft and other employers - but Gates does not open these "entry level" positions to these Americans. Why? Experienced Americans are only considered for the positions that require an arbitrary 3 to 7 years of experience in several specific skills - then the Americans are summarily rejected for not meeting all of those arbitrary qualifications."
http://tinyurl.com/358alw
> "Dell Job Cuts to Top 8,800 as U.S. Spending Slows"
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aEO1GX_CC.8U&refer=us
> "Motorola to lay off 2,600 workers"
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-fri-motorola-8k-jobcuts-motapr04,0,4870738.story
> "Chrysler Slashing Tech Jobs - The latest cutbacks affect 400 technology workers"
http://www.thecarconnection.com/blog/?p=1095
> "AMD axes 10% of its staff"
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36823/167/
> "Yahoo Profits Slip; To Cut 1,000 Jobs"
http://blog.wired.com/business/2008/01/yahoo-profits-s.html
> "Google lays off about 300 at DoubleClick"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/03/BUA2VUNAO.DTL&tsp=1
> "EBay Cuts 125 Jobs in Europe, North America"
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080320/ebay_jobs.html?.v=4
> "CNET to Lay Off 120"
http://www.redherring.com/Home/24032
> "At least 160 employees at CBS Corp. . . were let go"
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-stations9apr09,1,7495348.story
> Applied
It only takes one chip. Maybe not even that.
A BSCS is nearly as difficult as an engineering degree, but as worthless as a liberal arts degree.
.net. But now i have been laid of and out of job for past 4 months."
At best, a BSCS is a feather in your cap. It is almost never a job requirement. Look at the job ads, employers want tons of very specialized experience. If a BSCS is mentioned at all, it's practically always "or equivalent degree, or equivalent experience. "
Besides, IT is being devastated by cheap offshore labor. Even if you can get a job, can you count on having that job in five years?
Take a look at the dice forums. I could not help but notice how many posts from seeker.dice.com forums are of the same nature. And the situation is just getting worse. Below are just a few recent examples:
"I graduated with a B.S. in Computer Science from New Jersey Institute of Technology (NJIT) back in January 2005. After I graduated, I was unable to find a job . . . so in order to pay bills and student loans, I had to get a temp job doing customer service, making $12 an hour"
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=6562&tstart=0
"I have bachelors degree in computer science. I have 10yrs of experience in software and 5yrs in
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=7151&tstart=0
"I am a cliche . . . I am 24 year old, B.Sc. Computer Science grad from an above average state school, and I'm unemployed."
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=4896&start=0&tstart=0
"I graduated with a B.S in Computer Science last year May 2007. Though after applying to hundreds of places I've only gotten a handful of interviews and no IT job as of yet! All my other friends who majored in business or accounting managed to get jobs fairly easily."
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=6875&tstart=0
"Soooo. I graduate May of 07, with a 3.3 and a BSIT but no experience in IT Security . . . And I am $#*7 out of luck"
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=42472ꗨ
"I finished my Associates degree in IT back in December and I still haven't found employment in the IT field."
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?messageID=42320ꕐ
"In 2004, took the school Valedictorian of my college class-- 1 year to find a job in IT. "
http://seeker.dice.com/olc/thread.jspa?threadID=6923&tstart=0
Even if the patents are not enforcable, I'll be Apple could you up in court for the next 5 years, and cost you over $10 million in legal fees.