You said nothing of anything except people using computers, and that there was enough for one ip address per connected internet user. I am arguing that even at that basic level you were (and are) wrong.
FTR, P2P is used (And always has been used) for more than Napster/Clones and IM. Anything that works without going via a server to find the end place is P2P.
Some mail clients still deliver mail this way by delivering directly to a domains MX instead of to their local sendmail daemon. Its not some new thing.
yessir it did. We pulled it down, and it rebooted back up just fine. The dept wouldnt fork out cash for a new product (To track a car fleet, of all things) so they just "turned the date back ten years". Yeah. That wont hurt, right?
No, seriously... your assumption that each person on the internet only needs one IP address is wrong. There are legitimate reasons why a person might need two IP addresses.
do you an internet connected PC at work?
Do you use only one OS, or two OS on one computer? Some people have two computers for that.
Do you use any applications that will not work under NAT without a server in the middle.
In my opinion, proposing that only individuals need IP addresses, and that they only need one is preposterous. There are more cases than I can think of or list here where a person might require more than one IP address.
Over Y2K the company I worked for insisted EVERYTHING be turned off and physically unplugged from any network point, power point and phone point.
The cause for their worry wasnt a Y2K glitch in any of those sub-systems. They were worried mostly about a power surge or spike when everyone who had turned off their equiptment over Y2K turned it back on again just after midnight.
Of concern to us was an old HPUX system. We just werent sure if we could reliably turn it off and then get it going again. The reason?
After considering this quandry, I have another to propose:
Granted: A large amount of code and documentation used in most distributions containing the linux kernel was created by the FSF GNU project.
Question: How many of the people who donated their time/code/effort did that because they used linux and were missing a vital utility? And so, how much was written for the linux kernel as part of their system rather than for GNU/FSF?
I think the results to that question would reveal quite a bit about the current argument.
I must admit, I'm slightly confused as to exactly how that replies to what I said... where are you drawing your information on my software licensing habits from? Where exactly did you see that I'm vocally against software licensing?
I'd love to agree with you, but I cant, so instead, I'm going to add a little... insight... to some of your points:
How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
Jobs arent just making copies. Jobs are research, jobs are faster releases, jobs are more stable releases, jobs are new programs completely, which equates to more money. etc. The list goes on. This all takes money in the first place.
Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
This is based on a false assumption. Does more car sales mean less software sales? I argue that it does not. Money doesnt always neccessarily get spent. Sometimes it is saved.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
More software sales means more jobs within that company as it expands to meet new markets. That isnt neccessarily a good thing all the time (read: microsoft) but its no reason to steal software.
I believe the "never existed at all" actually refers to the fact that these items were created by a bug in earlier versions of the software. These items never should have existed even online at all.
I enjoyed reading your conclusion. It was well stated, and had some valid points... I'll drink to your opinion if you drink to mine. (although I'll note we're both forceful people, as shown by our initial replies.) Just thought I'd let you know... its not often that people here concede that both points are good, valid, and are, in the end, just opinion, but respectably someones opinion.
Well done on a very well thought out post.
one small reply though. I do find that when you force a vote, there is a better quality of vote generally than a no-vote. I find that a lot more people "give a damn" (for want of a better expression to show the emotion). I was of the same opinion as you until I moved here to the USA (that voting should actually not be compulsory). But when I saw how many people voted here (or didnt, rather), and how many people just *didnt* care... it kind of hit home to me that if that is the only way you can get people to care, then it really is worth it... Its kind of commi in a way, but... I think it really is worth it.
Let me pick apart your (uninformed and unresearched) reply. Let me first state my qualifications. I lived in australia till I was just over 18. Thus, I voted there. I live in the USA, and pay a great deal of attention during the elections and voting periods.
Let me also start off by saying I have NEVER seen a more unorganised election than the last presidential election, where people waited so long to find out who their new leader was. So you just arguing that the USA system is superior is not going to cut it with me. So lets start this, shall we?
Well, that's stupid. People who don't have an opinion shouldn't have to vote. If you are just going to pick one because you don't have an opinion, you are helping no one. Those who have a strong opinion one way or another are going to vote and those who don't, well they'll just let things go.
Let me clarify (having lived there). You CAN "donkey" vote. Its still anonymous, and entries incorrectly marked (all ones), or using ticks and crosses etc etc will invalidate your vote. You *can* (in essence) vote for "nobody". HOWEVER, given that everyone HAS to vote, you have a whole lot more people who actually CARE about what it is they are voting about. Vastly more people have informed opinions, and smarter decsions (on the whole) are made.
This is also stupid. I hated Al Gore and Bush(the Environmentalist vs. the Asshole) but I really didn't want Nader in Power. Who am I going to choose. Probably the one who would do the least damage and I wouldn't even touch the one who would do the most damage or had an ideal against mine.
This is *not* a two party system, as such. There are MUCH more than two candidates! Stop thinking so US-Centric when you are talking about another countries voting system!!!
If normal people can't count it, it's too complex and too easily corrupted.
Bullshit. In 90% of situations, only number 1 and 2 votes are counted. The average of the populace can understand it, and even if they cant, there is STILL the news. Remember Decision2000? Why in the hell would you assume there wasnt soemthing like that there?
No system is perfect. I firmly believe that; so I am not saying the system in australia is better. But aimlessly saying "That's stupid" is HARDLY going to convince anyone. Not having researched your point of view or your source of information, or even the persons you were replying to is a bad move.
I lived there for 18 years. I know quite a bit about the system used there, and personally, I never had a problem understanding it. I always thought the outcome was fair in most cases. In a lot of ways, it quite similarly represents the model used in the USA, but in quite substantial ways, it differs. I like those differences. You might not. But that doesnt give me the right to call your system stupid, or you the right to call mine stupid.
Please sit in the corner and catch your breath before posting about subjects you dont anything about...
I dont know what sort of modeling you do, but in my line of scientific work we do HRA (High Resolution Analyzing - 320x200 in 256 colors). You cant do scientific work without detail; cutting the width of the DFM (Dynamic Fire Model) removes too much of this.
Quite frankly, I heard there were issues with the floating point on those 486s, so I will only trust my 386 + FPU. Besides, DARPA and NASA wont spring the cash for a new box, just for extra research time.
BTW, regarding your hypothesis about averaging pixels... please remember that I *do* hold the patent on the DFM technique, as well as any dirivatives. So if you get it into your head to compete with me, you better watch out. Any attempts to reverse engineer the final flame will be prosecuted under the DMCA.
Incidently, I find adding in more pixels just increases the error rate, since the average is an FLOAT, and has to be typecast to an INT due to limitations of the new VGA standard.
How much experience do you have with making that MultiZone, to work with the 6x DVD Encore drive? I cant seem to get them to play nicely... I installed the H+ drivers and all that stuff, it was a while ago though... I moved from Sydney, Australia to OK, USA and thus have two different zoned DVDs in my collection. Its rather annoying, actually. Any help would be great. (just interpret my email address)
I would, however, like to hear your take on backing up information to which you have purchased a license to use.
If I purchase a license to use data (or audio) then I want to be able to protect my right to use that data. And in the case of audio, *specifically* that data. Not a lower quality facsimile of it.
Granted, I havent seem the CPRM or DRM standards, and I am making a few assumptions about exactly what it will do and how it will affect me, but I honestly cant see any RM solution not stopping me from doing the afore mentioned things.
It seems to me that they are deeming a backup not fair use (and specifically a backup... we're not talking about freeloading pirates here. Co-incidently, my own music archive is purely ripped from my own CDs, stored in Ogg Vorbis format. It has to be, work would have a fit if I pirated music. (and rightly so)).
Either that, or they're throwing fair use out the proverbial window.
Just curious what you think, and how you justify it.
So exactly whom among you thought that Adobe should burn in hell for daring to ask kIllustrator to change its name? Who among those now think that MySQL.org ought to change ITS name?
It occurs to me that there are a lot of sheep wandering aimlessly; with no clue as to what is going on. Folks, you cant have it both ways.
Taco, how about it? Poll this, I'd love to see the results.
[1] [Post about how great CG is]
[2] Reply to [1] [Check out this face]
[3] Message to [2] [Where is said face]
[1] Reply to [2] [Here are the pictures he sent me to that you cannot find]
Where exactly in that is the karma whoring? Aside from the fact that karma is just karma (Read: who cares); There is a karma cap. This stops you from going higher. Note posts at 2 without moderation up. This is an indicator that the poster has at least a karma of 40. The cap is at 50.
If I was whoring... why would I bother if I already have status that is the very reason that drives most people whore?
[Just a little something for you to chew on in your (karma-[less|low]?) ignorance]
Generally speaking, the only people who care about karma are those who do not have it
I was at the movies the other day, and to say the least, this movie has me captivated.
Let me clarify, I am not, have not, and never will be a Final Fantasy game player/addict. It just isnt my kind of game. But the CG in this movie looks absolutely AMAZING. I dont think I have ever seen people rendered so realistically.
That said, I guess the question on all our minds is.... when can my boxen do that?!?!
Contestant number three thought balsa wood would be a better material to construct the rocket out of; as it is lighter.
Please excuse contestant number three; they were unaware that the heat on re-entry with higher altitude missions would actually burn it up well before the rocket boosters did on the way down. (not to mention the way up). They were also unaware that impact with the earth even with a parachute would completely destroy this new innovative wood product.
We realise that this lack of understanding is common to all of our contestants (and most of our viewers), and kindly thank you for your prompt notification of said incorrect response.
Regards,
CyberKnet
Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Spokesperson
ABC Personell
Ho humm. So I should have no right to say "Use this, as long as you allow everyone else to use this, and any additions you make to it"? It seems like you're trying to encroach upon my rights. (And no, I'm not encroaching on yours... you have the right to say yes or no to the terms and conditions). People have been saying yes to worse licenses for decades. What is so new about a condition? Personally it is a condition I *WANT*.
Slashdot Mirror
You said nothing of anything except people using computers, and that there was enough for one ip address per connected internet user. I am arguing that even at that basic level you were (and are) wrong.
FTR, P2P is used (And always has been used) for more than Napster/Clones and IM. Anything that works without going via a server to find the end place is P2P.
Some mail clients still deliver mail this way by delivering directly to a domains MX instead of to their local sendmail daemon. Its not some new thing.
yessir it did. We pulled it down, and it rebooted back up just fine. The dept wouldnt fork out cash for a new product (To track a car fleet, of all things) so they just "turned the date back ten years". Yeah. That wont hurt, right?
morons.
No, seriously... your assumption that each person on the internet only needs one IP address is wrong. There are legitimate reasons why a person might need two IP addresses.
do you an internet connected PC at work?
Do you use only one OS, or two OS on one computer? Some people have two computers for that.
Do you use any applications that will not work under NAT without a server in the middle.
In my opinion, proposing that only individuals need IP addresses, and that they only need one is preposterous. There are more cases than I can think of or list here where a person might require more than one IP address.
There is a world outside your box.
CyberKnet (the original poster)
"An online electronic device only needs one port!"
slashdot://buzban
Over Y2K the company I worked for insisted EVERYTHING be turned off and physically unplugged from any network point, power point and phone point.
The cause for their worry wasnt a Y2K glitch in any of those sub-systems. They were worried mostly about a power surge or spike when everyone who had turned off their equiptment over Y2K turned it back on again just after midnight.
Of concern to us was an old HPUX system. We just werent sure if we could reliably turn it off and then get it going again. The reason?
It hadnt been rebooted in 10 (TEN) YEARS.
After considering this quandry, I have another to propose:
Granted: A large amount of code and documentation used in most distributions containing the linux kernel was created by the FSF GNU project.
Question: How many of the people who donated their time/code/effort did that because they used linux and were missing a vital utility? And so, how much was written for the linux kernel as part of their system rather than for GNU/FSF?
I think the results to that question would reveal quite a bit about the current argument.
I must admit, I'm slightly confused as to exactly how that replies to what I said ... where are you drawing your information on my software licensing habits from? Where exactly did you see that I'm vocally against software licensing?
Just curious.
CyberKnet
---
How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
Jobs arent just making copies. Jobs are research, jobs are faster releases, jobs are more stable releases, jobs are new programs completely, which equates to more money. etc. The list goes on. This all takes money in the first place.
Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
This is based on a false assumption. Does more car sales mean less software sales? I argue that it does not. Money doesnt always neccessarily get spent. Sometimes it is saved.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
More software sales means more jobs within that company as it expands to meet new markets. That isnt neccessarily a good thing all the time (read: microsoft) but its no reason to steal software.
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or alternately, for the non-subscription based model, try alt.binaries.empeefree
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I believe the "never existed at all" actually refers to the fact that these items were created by a bug in earlier versions of the software. These items never should have existed even online at all.
---
I enjoyed reading your conclusion. It was well stated, and had some valid points... I'll drink to your opinion if you drink to mine. (although I'll note we're both forceful people, as shown by our initial replies.) Just thought I'd let you know... its not often that people here concede that both points are good, valid, and are, in the end, just opinion, but respectably someones opinion.
... I think it really is worth it.
Well done on a very well thought out post.
one small reply though. I do find that when you force a vote, there is a better quality of vote generally than a no-vote. I find that a lot more people "give a damn" (for want of a better expression to show the emotion). I was of the same opinion as you until I moved here to the USA (that voting should actually not be compulsory). But when I saw how many people voted here (or didnt, rather), and how many people just *didnt* care... it kind of hit home to me that if that is the only way you can get people to care, then it really is worth it... Its kind of commi in a way, but
Respectfully,
CyberKnet
---
Let me also start off by saying I have NEVER seen a more unorganised election than the last presidential election, where people waited so long to find out who their new leader was. So you just arguing that the USA system is superior is not going to cut it with me. So lets start this, shall we?
Well, that's stupid. People who don't have an opinion shouldn't have to vote. If you are just going to pick one because you don't have an opinion, you are helping no one. Those who have a strong opinion one way or another are going to vote and those who don't, well they'll just let things go.
Let me clarify (having lived there). You CAN "donkey" vote. Its still anonymous, and entries incorrectly marked (all ones), or using ticks and crosses etc etc will invalidate your vote. You *can* (in essence) vote for "nobody". HOWEVER, given that everyone HAS to vote, you have a whole lot more people who actually CARE about what it is they are voting about. Vastly more people have informed opinions, and smarter decsions (on the whole) are made.
This is also stupid. I hated Al Gore and Bush(the Environmentalist vs. the Asshole) but I really didn't want Nader in Power. Who am I going to choose. Probably the one who would do the least damage and I wouldn't even touch the one who would do the most damage or had an ideal against mine.
This is *not* a two party system, as such. There are MUCH more than two candidates! Stop thinking so US-Centric when you are talking about another countries voting system!!!
If normal people can't count it, it's too complex and too easily corrupted.
Bullshit. In 90% of situations, only number 1 and 2 votes are counted. The average of the populace can understand it, and even if they cant, there is STILL the news. Remember Decision2000? Why in the hell would you assume there wasnt soemthing like that there?
No system is perfect. I firmly believe that; so I am not saying the system in australia is better. But aimlessly saying "That's stupid" is HARDLY going to convince anyone. Not having researched your point of view or your source of information, or even the persons you were replying to is a bad move. I lived there for 18 years. I know quite a bit about the system used there, and personally, I never had a problem understanding it. I always thought the outcome was fair in most cases. In a lot of ways, it quite similarly represents the model used in the USA, but in quite substantial ways, it differs. I like those differences. You might not. But that doesnt give me the right to call your system stupid, or you the right to call mine stupid.
Please sit in the corner and catch your breath before posting about subjects you dont anything about...
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Let me educate you. There are three types of ... "Visual Basic" ... that you can find.
1) Visual Basic. This is fully fledged (be it as it may) visual basic... what Microsoft call Enterprise strength.
2) VBA. Visual Basic for Applications. Also known as Embedded Visual Basic.
3) VBScript. The ActiveX enabled scripting language.
VB != VBA != VBScript. They are separate animals. (Read: code bases). Take a closer look next time.
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new fangled do-whatsits.
I dont know what sort of modeling you do, but in my line of scientific work we do HRA (High Resolution Analyzing - 320x200 in 256 colors). You cant do scientific work without detail; cutting the width of the DFM (Dynamic Fire Model) removes too much of this.
Quite frankly, I heard there were issues with the floating point on those 486s, so I will only trust my 386 + FPU. Besides, DARPA and NASA wont spring the cash for a new box, just for extra research time.
BTW, regarding your hypothesis about averaging pixels... please remember that I *do* hold the patent on the DFM technique, as well as any dirivatives. So if you get it into your head to compete with me, you better watch out. Any attempts to reverse engineer the final flame will be prosecuted under the DMCA.
Incidently, I find adding in more pixels just increases the error rate, since the average is an FLOAT, and has to be typecast to an INT due to limitations of the new VGA standard.
Sincerely,
Scott Blomfield, BSA.
---
we didnt need supercomputers to model fire. ... and it ran on our little 386s.
We had a simple formula
Mem[x] = Mem[x - 1] + Mem[x + 1] + Mem[x - 320] / 3
Them there at NASA probably ought to experiment with this!
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Is it just me, or does it seem you'd still be limited to the speed of existing micro technology?
---
How much experience do you have with making that MultiZone, to work with the 6x DVD Encore drive? I cant seem to get them to play nicely... I installed the H+ drivers and all that stuff, it was a while ago though... I moved from Sydney, Australia to OK, USA and thus have two different zoned DVDs in my collection. Its rather annoying, actually. Any help would be great. (just interpret my email address)
---
I would, however, like to hear your take on backing up information to which you have purchased a license to use.
If I purchase a license to use data (or audio) then I want to be able to protect my right to use that data. And in the case of audio, *specifically* that data. Not a lower quality facsimile of it.
Granted, I havent seem the CPRM or DRM standards, and I am making a few assumptions about exactly what it will do and how it will affect me, but I honestly cant see any RM solution not stopping me from doing the afore mentioned things.
It seems to me that they are deeming a backup not fair use (and specifically a backup... we're not talking about freeloading pirates here. Co-incidently, my own music archive is purely ripped from my own CDs, stored in Ogg Vorbis format. It has to be, work would have a fit if I pirated music. (and rightly so)).
Either that, or they're throwing fair use out the proverbial window.
Just curious what you think, and how you justify it.
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So exactly whom among you thought that Adobe should burn in hell for daring to ask kIllustrator to change its name? Who among those now think that MySQL.org ought to change ITS name?
It occurs to me that there are a lot of sheep wandering aimlessly; with no clue as to what is going on. Folks, you cant have it both ways.
Taco, how about it? Poll this, I'd love to see the results.
---
Where exactly did you stand on the kIllustrator vs Adobe Illustrator case?
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[2] Reply to [1] [Check out this face]
[3] Message to [2] [Where is said face]
[1] Reply to [2] [Here are the pictures he sent me to that you cannot find]
Where exactly in that is the karma whoring? Aside from the fact that karma is just karma (Read: who cares); There is a karma cap. This stops you from going higher. Note posts at 2 without moderation up. This is an indicator that the poster has at least a karma of 40. The cap is at 50.
If I was whoring... why would I bother if I already have status that is the very reason that drives most people whore?
[Just a little something for you to chew on in your (karma-[less|low]?) ignorance]
Generally speaking, the only people who care about karma are those who do not have it
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WireFrame Mockup Here
Chromed Mockup Here
Rendered version Here
Aki Hand here
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I was at the movies the other day, and to say the least, this movie has me captivated.
.... when can my boxen do that?!?!
Let me clarify, I am not, have not, and never will be a Final Fantasy game player/addict. It just isnt my kind of game. But the CG in this movie looks absolutely AMAZING. I dont think I have ever seen people rendered so realistically.
That said, I guess the question on all our minds is
---
Contestant number three thought balsa wood would be a better material to construct the rocket out of; as it is lighter. Please excuse contestant number three; they were unaware that the heat on re-entry with higher altitude missions would actually burn it up well before the rocket boosters did on the way down. (not to mention the way up). They were also unaware that impact with the earth even with a parachute would completely destroy this new innovative wood product. We realise that this lack of understanding is common to all of our contestants (and most of our viewers), and kindly thank you for your prompt notification of said incorrect response. Regards, CyberKnet Who Wants To Be A Millionaire Spokesperson ABC Personell
---
Ho humm. So I should have no right to say "Use this, as long as you allow everyone else to use this, and any additions you make to it"? It seems like you're trying to encroach upon my rights. (And no, I'm not encroaching on yours ... you have the right to say yes or no to the terms and conditions). People have been saying yes to worse licenses for decades. What is so new about a condition? Personally it is a condition I *WANT*.
---