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Under The Surface Of The BSA Anti-Piracy Campaign
cloudscout writes: "The Business Software Alliance has been sending out threatening letters to companies across the US hinting that they may be audited for licensing compliance. This article on Yahoo, tells the complete story. First, the letters are really just a marketing tool to sell more software. The BSA has no intention of following through with their threats. Second, and possibly even more importantly, the tactics are often resulting in a switch to open source software. It seems that nobody likes a bully. Play hardball and people will start taking their business elsewhere." My mom was genuinely frightened when she got The Letter, precisely because of the threatening tone this article discusses.
If anyone in the Linux or OSS community was savvy, they would go to the radio stations and buy commercial spots directly after the BSA. "Never worry about a BSA or Microsoft audit ever again. Solve all your licensing worries!" Even better would be to find out where the BSA is getting it's mailing lists and buy that for yourself too. Mr. CEO will then get a threatening letter from the BSA, then a letter from an enterprising OSS company promising to get rid of licensing headaches. Of course, I'm assuming there is someone out there in the OSS community that a) Has some business savvy and b) is looking to run a profitable business.
"This, for the Pirana Brothers, was the turning point..."
They get threatened and pickup free software out of fear, or do you want them to do it on their own accord without proprietary bullying?
Where I am, this option already has management's attention. The letter generated a minor hystericane, to borrow a phrase from the vmyths website, and we did a serious test using metaframe to access a Win2k terminal server (for those services that we cannot immediately migrate off Windows). I am trying to get smbmount and smbumount running right now. Not as a serious option for deployment next month, but more as a back-pocket kind of thing.
Note to the BSA and Microsoft: Asking for more cash during a recession is guaranteed to send your customers packing. Revenues are flat for most people right now. You cannot draw blood from a stone.
Well, if you chose A you pay after getting shafted. If you chose B, you pay to get shafted.
I think if more people had the guts to give a "backwater response" like that, we wouldn't have to worry about the DMCA.
My dad got one of those, he's a self-employed contracter. We sat around laughing at it for 10 minutes. ;)
Needless to say, I called their bluff.
-KD
Pay us and we'll stop fucking with you... for a while.
7. Illegal software is more likely to fail, leaving your company's computers and their information useless.
Does that mean all copies of windows are illegal?
Here's a quarter....go for it!
1-800-RU-LEGIT
CEO:"Ever have to deal with the BSA?"
Boss:"Yup..."
CEO:"Complete F***'ing Bastards eh. God, they'll ruin your day"
Boss:"Yup.....how'd you like to tell them to go f*** themselves if they ever show up here?"
CEO:"Go on...."
The BSA is not a police force. They have no power to audit. Even if they convince a court to issue a search warrant for stolen software, the BSA does not get to do the search. The gov'ts own agents do.
As operations manager at a business, individually setting up each PC woth a unique CD key is an unreasonable burden. There are thousands of PCs here. I install one machine with windows and office and whatever and CLONE it for new staff that needs it or when a machine is upgraded.
I have all the other licenses in a box in the office, but absolutely do not have time to put separate keys on each installed machine. And if the BSA thinks I'm violating the law they can go fuck themselves.
The BSA cannot even do this, because thanks to software piracy now having status as a CRIMINAL LAW and not civil law, the accused is now protected by the "innocent until proved guilty" statutes. They don't have to prove their innocence, nor can they be forced to testify against themselves (you "required audit").
For Christs sake, that's the single most backwater response I've ever heard. "I'll shoot them if they dont get off my land."
Try forcing your way into someone's home claiming that your stolen [whatever] in in there. You bet you can be legally shot by the landowner. Deal with it. This isn't a socialist owned state.
Now what would be more fun is to have the BSA audit you and then be able to prove compliance. You can then sue the BSA for a variety of penalties, and you can have them reveal who ratted you out and sue them. Of course, the BSA knows this which is why they say in the article that they do not seek court orders frivolously. A couple lawsuits against the BSA from companies that were compliant and audited could bring them to ruin.
BSA may already have more than that to worry about. Seems that down in Dallas Texas, they are right now under criminal investigation for the threatening tone of a letter they sent to someone who is a favorite systems vendor to the Dallas police department. Something about the letter may constitute a 'terroristic threat'.
These so-called "losses" are themselves fraudulent. First of all, they don't know how much piracy has gone on, they estimate. Second, they assume that everyone using pirated software would have gone out and bought the software (at full retail) if they hadn't pirated it. It is much more likely that the "pirates" would have sought out alternative, cheaper software.
He who accuses must prove guilt. Note that "silence of the accused" cannot be used to infer guilt.
"Legal Piracy will prevent people from creating IP". Nope. Taiwan has many LOCAL cool bands, many of them quite wealthy. So much for the theory that they aren't making money because of a lack of IP protections.
Now if someone puts Office 2000 on a Tqiwanese ftp server, what law is being violated?
Get over the idea that that "IP" is a universal concept and quit foisting your own believed "right think" onto others. Copyright is your religious beleif and it is not universally right. Other concepts on IP are equally valid.
Yankee go home.
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.bsa. org
Yousa think *BSD gonna DIE?!
You miss some of the targeted audience of the BSA campain. this is intended to scare small-midsized companies who purchase one copy of MS office, and just install it a dozen times. MS has never really gone after individuals, using cracked, or warez-group sourced software. calling them on the phone and saying "give us money" costs more than just ignoring a single person. but if you can hit a mid-sized business with 50 licenses for NT4 and Office 2k. you're gonna make a nice profit.
this also has less effect on large companies, who for ease of administration, just buy site wide licenses for all the software, based on the number of users they have. and also have big support contracts to MS anyway.. so it's no big deal for them to just write $100,000 checks to MS every year.
I believe I saw this poster as well... Even better: Right under "The BSA Is Targeting NYC" is the image of the back of a man's shaved head with a bullseye painted on it. How long until using Linux is a thoughtcrime?
Sounds good, but microsoft hasn't sold site licenses in a while. That causes major friction here. IS refuses to touch an pc with windows 98 on it (we have a site license for 95, which is valid forever), but many laptops do no support 95. Thus IS is becoming irrelavent for PC support, since they can't support what we need.
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"Hot lesbian witches! It's fucking genius!"
"He used ... sarcasm."
That's part of the reason that RMS chose to call it "Free" Software, it's all about Freedom from tyranny. In fact, RMS still believes that the primary reason that one should switch to Free Software is because of the freedoms that it provides. He believes that you should even use Free Software if it is vastly inferior to its commercial software rivals. BSA strong-arming, and anti-consumer features in the new versions of Windows XP will simply bring this type of freedom to the forefront.
I was just thinking about it, and I suspect that I lack licenses for many of the programs I use, since I tend to delete the source trees eventually and the license doesn't generally get installed anywhere. Of course, the BSA probably doesn't have the necessary power-of-attorney to begin doing anything about it, but it would be somewhat awkward searching the web for licenses for all of the software you have.
"Yes, I want a CD with 300 copies of the GPL and a number of assorted other licenses. Wait, can I use the BSD option on this one? What changes have I made to it?"
In any case, I think Red Hat (or IBM?) should run a "Have you found you need more licenses? Come to our web site and download a couple." ad campaign.
"NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to Bill Gates.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... Anyway, register your software or we will be forced to torture you!"
You just wish your ID was as low as mine! I used to be proud to have such a low id, but not so much now. Slashdot most
This immideatly reminded me of all the "Big Brother is Watching" posters plastered everywhere in the Orwellian society. You can never be sure when you are being watched. So you live in constant fear and anticipate the thought police to come after you any moment.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
You can't possibly suggest that the number of jobs would grow anywhere near proportional to the number of copies sold. While what you are saying is partially true, what do you think would create more jobs: an increase in the number of copies of Windows sold or an increase in the number of cars sold?
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
Ah, good thing you asked. GDP = Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + Net Export. Also, Investment = Savings (this is non-obvious and I'm not going to try to prove it here, but basically, the money you save banks use to give loans to other people, which they, in turn, use to purchase capital goods). Thus, consumption affects the economy in the short-term, while savings stimulates long-term growth. More on that in Economics 102.
But anyway, the companies' budgets are always stretched thin, and even more so now that there is a recession. Any increase in the operating costs would cause them to lay off workers.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
No argument there, but I didn't even get into that discussion. I concentrated only on the economic aspects of piracy. The legal/moral side of the story is a totally different debate altogether.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
Apparently BSA deliberately ignores the simple laws of economics. The difference between the number of copies sold and the number of copies installed does not equal to the number of lost sales. Furthermore, both numbers are estimated, so there is lots of room for creative accounting.
Let's analyze this further. Another claim I often hear is that pirated software causes the loss of jobs: the loss of X revenue due to piracy causes the loss of Y jobs. I really wonder where they got the Y number from. Did they just divide X by the average wage or something? If a software company employs 1000 people and sells 100,000 copies of their software per year, does that mean they'd employ 2000 people if they sold 200,000 copies? How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
And here is the kicker: pirated software hurts the economy. Surely X dollars lost due to piracy means X dollars less in the GDP (in fact more than X due to the multiplier effect). Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things. Therefore, if all the piracy was ever erradicated, the software industry would benefit at the expense of all other industries.
Now, let's analyze the last point further. As I showed above, more copies of software sold do not translate into more jobs, since the marginal cost of making another copy of software is virtually zero. However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
I just love debunkning the BSA propaganda.
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If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
> The BSA got to treat the LAUSD as if it had found widespread felonious behavior rather than a few years worth of a few people deliberately or mistakenly making copies
Or even a few years of failing to keep adequate records of perfectly legitimate purchased copies.
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rant
Already posted: Microsoft's Land War in Asia
Should be worth a chuckle...
-soup (GNUrd, Speaker to Machines) "Laugh at yourself- Why should everyone else have all the fun?" -Romanchek's 6th Ru
There is only one restriction
Something nice they do whenever closing a website
Wondering if Attest Systems is promoting BSA
And some info about GASP:
The BSA version of GASP® is provided to you through the cooperation of the Business Software
Alliance and Attest Systems, Inc. The version you are about to download includes most of the
features and functions of the full release of GASP. It is, however, restricted to the audit (and
processing) of no more than 100 systems (desktops, laptops, servers) and will cease functioning
60 days after installation. To use GASP on more than 100 systems or for continued use you will
need to purchase the fully licensed version. Companies with 100 or fewer systems can easily
purchase a fully licensed version of GASP online at http://www.attest.com. Companies with over
100 systems are encouraged to contact Attest Systems, Inc. for purchase information. Phone
numbers for Attest are as follows: US/Canada 800-471-4277, Other countries: 415-209-1700.
Freaker / TuC
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've created.
The power to destroy an company is insignificant next to the power of the source.
-==-
... but also (surprise surprise!) Microsoft itself has sent letters to similar effect. While not directly threatening a raid, the letters preach on about companies who aren't legal having to face the consequences, and even includes a 'request' to audit your own company... presumably before they (or the BSA) do.
As for the BSA's letter, I say keep them coming... the more companies who are scared into running linux the better. And when the other companies find that linux isnt so bad after all, more and more will begin using open source/free software, not just because of a scare tactic, but because of its features.
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If my mod points that were awarded on Friday hadn't expired already, I'd have given you some.
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I can see the fnords!
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Here in Minneapolis, they have radio ads that warn employers that a disgruntled employee could call the BSA and report the use of unlicensed software.
...when the BSA annoucned it was riding into town.
I work at a local computer/software store, and I've been hearing the ads (I live near one of the cities mentioned in the article).
And all last week, we've had people buying multiple copies of Office XP (now with new anti-consumer^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hpiracy features!) and Windows. All thanks to Der Gestapo at the BSA.
Interstingly enough, we got a huge shipment of Office XP and the Windows trinity (98/ME/100), enough to cover our recent spike in sales. Lucky us, huh?
Fortunately, as the *koff*koff*"Linux expert" at the store, I was able to do my part to make sure a few people walked away with some penguin-themed boxes...
Jay (=
They have an MP3 of the New York radio ad online here.
Like another comment said, this is almost like Joseph Stalin telling kids to turn their parents in.
The problem is the costs involved. For example, suppose I go, as someone else said, and buy a copy of Exchange Server and a bunch of client licenses. I don't bother buying any Windows licenses because I'll be using the copies of Outlook Express that came with the computers I bought. But if the BSA comes along at Microsoft's behest and audits me, how do I prove I own those licenses? The paperwork's probably long gone, or at least buried deep in wherever I store company paperwork. I probably threw most of the original CDs away, if I even got them, because how many copies of the same CD do you really need? Can you find the license document for the copy of Windows you're probably running right now?
"The BSA is targeting NYC".
If I know my typical, jaded NYC dwellers, I sincerely doubt that they'd be cowed into software subservience by the Boy Scouts of America.
Silly boy, don't you know its really the "Boy Sprouts of America".
They could demand through discovery process a full auditing of your software usage. But that would be a process wherein they have filed a lawsuit already, and it would be under court supervision.
Without such authority, you should be able to just tell them to go away. But you better make sure you are clean, because that might just tempt them to file the lawsuit.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Actually, an Exchage CAL is an Outlook License, at least with Exchage 5.5 & Outlook 97-2000.
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I find your lack of receipts disturbing.
.NET and Passport.
The bugs you refer to will soon be propagated via
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
until this becomes just another "All your base"?
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That should be $WHOMEVER.
:)
Just being a grammar nazi.
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Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again
Open Source is software that doesn't suck. Sending out threatening letters sucks. Ergo...
p.s. How come no one ever sees a threatening letter from the BSA saying that they will come over and audit your compliance in registering shareware?
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
If you don't like the license,
don't accept the click-thru EULA
don't install the software.
That would seem to be the most simple solution.
Have an *un*-installfest, followed by an Installfest.
a simpleton response.
.
Yeah, I just spent the last 5 minutes looking for a link with pictures of those SCARY SCARY ads. ;) Does anyone have a link? They don't appear to be on the bsa or MS sites....
Find out when the BSA/MS marketing circus is coming to your town and sponsor an anti-circus.
What wouldn't be a better time to hear about free software then right when you are preparing to shell out thousands of dollars to become "compliant"??? (gosh I love that word, why don't they just say "submissive").
People from the Linux Distro's and the UserGroups should orgainze install-fests and whatnot to coincide with these "events".
Point and Grunt
Point and Grunt
I saw an ad in the local Yellow Pages from the BSA that states: It's illegal to copy software. I had no idea, you'd think that FreeBSD, Debian, et. al. would warn you that you are committing an illegal act when you install as so-called "free" OS! Can I just give MS my credit card number, or sign up for direct debit?
Why is BSA doing this? I would be much happier if they would just bring back the Gold Star. Heck, even an A10 would be better. I'm sure that selling motorbikes is not as profitable as being an industry shill, but it sure is a lot more fun for the customers.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Once that starts, bad things are sure to follow. Any company that treats its customers as enemies will not last long.
right arm, i'd mod you up if i had points.
Good point - the BSA has no authority or business entering private property unless in the company of police exercizing a search warrant - and perhaps not even then.
This is actually a very good opportunity for free software to demonstrate its benefits. People who are perfectly happy with their situation rarely do anything to change it. People who seek out freedom are usually fleeing from opression. This is the way of the world. And when they land on this new shore, full of unimaginable opportunities, they'll never look back again.
Don't fret that Free Software picks up rejects from the other software models. At least this way they have a dedicated interest in giving Free software a chance instead of taking one look at the command line and running back crying to their windows.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
On the surface, the BSA has a purpose for existing. Piracy does happen. Some businesses do cheat on licenses. More software is being used than companies are being compensated for. To investigate cases where piracy is occuring is more than likely justified. However, that is where the line is drawn.
To harrass or accuse anyone of a crime when there is no evidence that such a crime ever committed is a very BAD idea from a service point of view. You don't harrass your customers to make sure that they're not cheating you out of a few pennies. In a large corporation, even one that spends a lot of time making sure they're 100% compliant, there probably is 1-2% of noncompliant software installed, including software that was installed more times than the licenses allow for, or software for which the licenses were purchased but no supporting documentation exists.
So the BSA threatens this huge corporation. Even at 1%, there is a lot of money to be lost even if the only fees the company will be levied with are the cost of the licenses. Its worth their effort not so much to get thier licenses up to date, but to reorganize their systems so that extra installation of photoshop that nobody uses is uninstalled. If they'll have to spend the money anyways, they don't necessarily have to send it in to the software company that is harrassing them.
It makes perfect sense to move to open source in light of these events. At least you will know that no matter how many times you reinstall that one copy you purchased, nobody will ever bother you about it.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
People who are whining about how they don't want open source to gain ground because of something the BSA is doing remind me of people in the military who didn't want the US to have snipers. In both world wars and in Korea we had to throw together a sniper training program when we realized that the enemy had snipers and that they were highly effective. The reason we had to throw a program together each time is that the brass would do away with the sniper schools as soon as the wars were over. It wasn't until Vietnam that our armed forces finally got it through their thick heads that any advantage you can get over the enemy by any means is a good thing. Moral victories don't mean shit. If you see an opening, you go for it. If you have an advantage, you press it. Playing "fair" is fine for sports and other competitive activities. When it comes to combative activities however, you don't play around and you leave your sentimentalism at the door.
Muslim community leaders warn of backlash from tomorrow morning's terrorist attack.
Someone needs to add "Install Linux" to those posters
MrCreosote Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump!Meow!Thump! "You're right! There isn't enough room to swing a cat in here!"
Independant developers mean that you're getting software from someone other than Microsoft.
Tell us more, darnit!
Best Slashdot Co
I had a special license that excludes Unisys. They don't care and are still in violation of my copyright but I can't do a thing about it.
... Red Hat should do it for them. Great marketing scheme. :-)
There is a similar campaign starting up here in Europe, in time for the XP launch.
I heard a M$ lawyer comment that the biggest problem with the call centre handling "disgruntled employees" is that close to 99% of the calls are really one company trying to get competitors audited. Sometimes its a few rogue salesmen in one company trying to tie up the competition, other times its a well funded campaign to derail a deal with the wrong supplier. Since the last grass campaign netted very few violations for the large number of calls, they have been developing a whole scripting system for the front line call handlers to filtre as many bogus calls as possible.
They are now requiring face to face meetings with the grassers, before committing any resources to pursuing an audit. Even with more training for the call centre staff and about 20 dedicated auditing teams across Europe, they still expect only a few cases per year. Its not a revenue centre.
Most of the increase in income will come from the scare campaign, along with pressure from the channel on every company who gets a letter. They have been trying to set up a new training program for companies who want to be certified Auditors. The feeling is that a regular scare mail campaign with demands to produce a yearly system audit will create a large Audit Company market. The plan was that the channel would share in the money earned by an audit, about 10,000 euros minimum, up to several million euros for a large corp, by asking for a certified audit report at the beginning of contract negotiations.
With some more press coverage like this Yahoo article, I think I'll let customers know there is no teeth to the audit demands, and to just say no.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
This campaign is targeted to small and mid-sized businesses. That is where the most institutionalized piracy occurs.
I think there's a much more important reason that the BSA wouldn't dare go after a Fortune 500 company - those are the folks that are lining Bill's pockets the most. Piss off the CIO with one of these "audit" threats, and he's likely to get B. Gates on the phone and threaten to cancel that 50,000 seat license to SQL Server.
They also tend to have big legal departments that would just love to smack the BSA around like a red-haired stepchild.
Naw, bullies always pick easy targets.
I send you this letter in order to have your revenues!
What the hell, I just graduated, so here's my shot at it. (Besides, I gotta do something to make up for my shameless "Hi! How Are You?" posts!)
In the spirit of fairness, I'll address these to a Windoze audience. Obviously, going open source is the solution that allows you to avoid BSA harassment and remain legal. But since the BSA lives in a non-Open world, for purposes of this argument, I'll fight their arguments on their turf.
> 9. Proper software management saves time, money and makes employees more productive.
Arguably true. If you have processes in place for this, you've probably got decent process in place elsewhere in your organization. But that's a benefit to process, not to legal software :)
> 8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
ROFLMAO. Those goddamn "Elf Bowling" games are a prime source of viral infection. Warez aren't. Any warez group with sufficiently poor QA that they release warez with viruses will be hax0red into oblivion by their fellow pirates within seconds ;-)
> 7. Illegal software is more likely to fail, leaving your company?s computers and their information useless.
Not. See #8. I pay for my games, and then I apply the cracks/patches. Why? Because they're often more functional when cracked - for instance, I can use my CD-ROM drive to play background music, rather than having the disk in the drive.
(And back to the more likely case -- in what way does installing the OEM version of Windoze from CD onto a freshly-FDISK'ed drive, compared with Joe Sixpack, who gets his installs from D3LL with an extra 100 megabytes of vendor-supplied bloatware, half of which doubles as spyware, decrease the reliability of a system?
Indeed, I've seen far more data loss from "legal" vendor installation practices, such as "recovery CDs" that really mean "reformat and start over". Ghosted drive images (combined with partitioning strategies, such as a 1-2G partition for the OS, and the rest of the drive for data) provide real recovery, licensing be damned.
In this case, being legal (i.e. owning a license for a Windoze install and Norton Ghost, rather than pirating both products), could be every bit as good (from a data loss perspective) as piracy, but the BSA types have chosen that the default way to "be legal" (i.e. "recovery CDs" keyed to BIOS and/or PSNs) is the less-reliable option.
In their infinite wisdom, BSA has encouraged OEMs to make "piracy" (remember the controversy over Ghosting images being a violation of the EULA?) the better option from a reliability/reproducibility point of view. (Or as one sysadmin put it: "Yeah, right, like fuck I'm gonna install the same damn OS from the same fuckin' CD 10 times on 10 identical machines, especially since I just paid for 10 fuckin' OS licenses!!!")
> 6. You can expect no warranties or support for illegal software and won?t have access to inexpensive upgrades.
Hands up, anyone who's actually gotten support for products like M$Word or Windows.
And to the both of you who raised your hands, keep your hands up if you think you got better support through the vendor than you would have if you'd called the Psychic Friends Hotline.
Unless your work for a company that produces computer games, I don't see this as a problem. The BSA is targeting businesses.
As to the learning curve, when people realize that they can loose their business or their jobs because of this, they pay attention.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Actually, I think this is a great way for people to be brought to open source. If you try to explain the benefits of free (as in speech) software to most people, you get blank stares. When companies start threatening their own customers, people start to understand. Nothing speeds up the learning process like a good real-life example.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This isn't meant as a troll, I'm seriously asking this and hoping someone will reply.
I live in the US. The BSA shows up at my door. Why do I have to let them in said door? Why can't I just tell them to piss up a rope? I was under the impression that in the US the only people you have to let inside are police officers with a proper warrent. And if the BullShitters of America show up with cops with a warrent, why can't I just say "cops enter, BSA go screw yourselves?"
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
An exchange CAL = the right to use Outlook.
You clearly are an amateur at criticizing MS licensing tactics. If you were an experienced MS licensing guy (read=VICTIM) like me, you would criticize things like MSDN. Having attempted to activate 45 MSDN Universal licenses over the past month, I have come to the conclusion that MS is trying to become a services company partially by attempting to completely alienate their most hardcore developers.
ostiguy
Dear Mr. Kruger,
Thank you for bringing to my attention my possible thievery. Enclosed you will find a VHS tape of me wiping my Windows partition, as well as removing all Adobe and Macromedia software from my Linux partition. You will also see that I have burned all of my commercial software discs so that they do not fall into the hands of evil, Nazi-loving software pirates. Since I am no longer a licensee of any of your softare cartel's member companies, I will assume that this matter is closed and any further action on your part will be taken as harrassment and will be dealt with accordingly.
Again, thank you for bringing this urgent matter to my attention.
Sincerely,
$ENDUSER
< voice accent="italian" style="rough>
Dear Mr. Luigi:
It has come to my attention that you might be using software that, shall we say, fell off the back of a truck. The very thought wounds me deeply, as I know you would never show such disrespect to a friend.
I am therefore going to give you a chance to make... amends. I do this out of respect for you, as you have been a loyal customer of ours. I am sure you will want our protection in future, and I am sure that you will do the right thing.
Sincerely,
Godfather Gates.
P.S. I am sure I do not need to remind you of the unfortunate accident that befell Mr. Mario, when he unfortunately allowed our insurance to lapse.
</voice>
www.eFax.com are spammers
In this 1998 report entitled "Overseas Invasion", they report how the BSA offices in other countries are often run solely by a Microsoft employee, and act as if they are just an arm of Microsoft marketing.
This included cases where companies were actually investigated and found to be non-compliant on a variety of products from different vendors, but BSA "wiped the slate clean" if the company bought a big site license for Microsoft Office! Quite insidious.
In the interest of full disclosure, I must point out that Microsoft and the BSA responded in a later issue of the magazine.
Well yeah - if you pay the BSA then they put you on that other mailing list and their sister organization comes and shakes you down for cookies ....
Yeah right. So that it is within easy reach of any disgruntled employee for trashing just before he leaves (...and turns his employer in, two weeks later...)
Say no to software patents.
There is a big difference between intellectual propery and physical good. Let's take your example, lamps:
- You don't see lamp manufacturers actively encouraging disgruntled employees to break their desk lamps. Sure, it might boost sales, but lamp manufacturers are above such sleezy tactics.
- Lamps are actually useful, and if broken, it gets noticed pretty quickly. Whereas a missing license sticker on a PC might not get noticed for months... You'll never know for sure whether it was Joe who tore off the license of his computer when before he left, or whether that computer was part of a batch which happened to have no sticker, or whether it was Paul who did it 3 months ago, before he left!
- Motivation is difficult to prove. Somebody might have torn off the sticker, not because he wanted to get his boss into trouble, but just because he considered it an eyesore. However, smashing a lamp is somewhat harder to justify. If the fluorescent lights in the office annoy you, you just leave them off. But you don't smash them.
- And most important: people never leave or get fired over their taste in desk lamps (well not usually, at least). You get that distinct "they slept with the dragon; they got eaten by the dragon" mentality that fosters poetic justice.
> And we'd better not accumulate any intellectual property, as it may be disclosed.If this is company-owned IP, it will in most cases be only known by a handful of people. And if it tend to get leaked, it will thus be pretty easy to find out who did it (Who had access to it? Who had a motivation to do it? Where did the leaked info first turn up?). Of course, the raise of the Sircam and Magistr virii has changed the outlook on this issue (pun intended...) by providing enough plausible deniability, but this is a quite new phenomenon.
Say no to software patents.
This is the main reason I like Linux. No stupid licensing restrictions!! I feel it a way underhyped benifit of open source applications. It is an absolute pain to keep track of licenses.
Yes, but working, free software has an incredible ROI.
To quote my boss, "This is free, right? And what was the cost of the other solution." The other solution's cost was over $12,000.
And it works like a charm.
That's why I'm looking for another distro. I won't be using Caldera anymore.
That's one of the major points of free software, freedom!
Then there is the fact that everyone can look at the code to, learn, improve the code, simple enjoyment, security reasons...
This is definately a good thing.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
You are correct that the State of Texas does not like people who shoot law enforcement officers. They also do not care for people who claim law enforcement authority and do not have it. I remember a West Texas policeman, who declared himself the town boss, being shot on the courthouse steps at noon Saturday in a farm town. The investigating Texas Rangers, best police in the state, could not find a single witness. They provided police services until a replacement was hired. I also remember El Paso policemen losing cases and prisoners for illegal search and seizure. These same policemen gunned down several holdup men foolish enough to fight them. Nothing is as simple as it appears, and a snap decision, made without sound advice, could ruin your whole life. When in doubt, get a lawyer.
barratry
n. creating legal business by stirring up disputes and quarrels, generally for the benefit of the lawyer who sees fees in the matter. Barratry is illegal in all states and subject to criminal punishment and/or discipline by the state bar, but there must be a showing that the resulting lawsuit was totally groundless. There is a lot of border-line barratry in which attorneys, in the name of being tough or protecting the client, fail to seek avenues for settlement of disputes or will not tell the client he/she has no legitimate claim.
This is a 150,000% fine negotiated down to a 1,000% fine. (or 1,500x down to 10x) How does the BSA get to levy fines so out of proportion to actual damages? Is software piracy that much worse than discharging toxic substances into waterways (max fine $125,000)? Misbranding a drug in interstate commerce (max fine $100,000)? Violating the Sherman Antitrust Act (the fine listed in Section 3571 (d) is "not more than the greater of twice the gross gain or twice the gross loss" caused by the conduct...)?
Assuming that "hundreds" = 500 copies found, then the LAUSD had found roughly 1 copy per school, or 1 copy per 120 employees ( it has 60k employees total). The BSA got to treat the LAUSD as if it had found widespread felonious behavior rather than a few years worth of a few people deliberately or mistakenly making copies. That is too much power for one relatively small group (sure, $3 billion sounds like a lot, but per capita that's only $30/ working adult). Extraordinary fines should require extraordinary proof, but instead the BSA has you do all the work, and unless you are completely clean, you're faced with that 1,000x fine.
Put another way: if local traffic courts had $100,000 tickets for speeding, you'd feel grateful if the court "reduced" the fine to $666. But should the original ticket be so high? Most people would have to accept whatever the court says, because the original penalty makes it almost impossible to fight- you'll fight a ticket if you can accept the possibility of failure- with the original penalty so high, that risk cannot be taken. Not to mention if *you* had to show that you didn't speed, even a little bit, and lack of evidence = proof of guilt.
The BSA's power fails the Categorical Imperative test (i.e. only set rules for yourself that you'd be willing to accept as rules for everyone). Imagine if every association had the BSA's power. Failure to pay overtime can be worth hundreds to an employee. So lets have unions get the power to force self-audits for overtime, with $400k fines per violation. Or not paying a consultant on time... I think $200k is an appropriate fine, and half should go to that consultant, of course.
You would have to watch the terms on the software licenses that you sign. I'm sure that MS and others have put in language that says you must cooperate with any efforts to verify complience with the license.
FYI - if you've pirated some company's software, you are not a customer.
--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Whenever the BSA conducts a raid, they always have search warrants.
--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
I would love to have a job that consisted soley of installing Linux on desktops at corporations that have decided that licensed software is too much of a legal exposure. I could make a good living doing that...
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Still, Kruger insists: "We don't visit any of these companies. The ones getting the letters are not under investigation."
(My italics.)
So the BSA is sending out thousands of letters deliberately worded to promote Fear'n'Doubt, to people who are not under suspicion?
Sounds like grounds for a cease and desist order, or even a class action suit.
There was this pretty famous ad from the 50's that I have on my wall in small poster form. It's got a very angry and evil looking guy drying his hands. At the top in large red letters it says "Are your bathrooms breeding Bolsheviks?" It goes on to talk about how rough paper towls can breed discontentment in the workplace, and that discontentment can lead to Bolshevism in the American corporation. Needless to say, the ad was from a paper towl company.
This whole thing reminds me of that ad, like a repeat of history. Disgruntled employees undermining The American Way, pirating software in a communist fashion that destroys good corporate, American values. The communist domino effect that Americans were so worried about is the same idea as the Free Software cancer effect that Microsoft is throwing about now. It's all very absurd, and in addition to being a scare tactic, it places 100% of the blame on the companies themselves. "You have these rough paper towels, creating disgruntled Bolshevik employee software pirates!" No surer way to tick off a good customer than to blame them for doing something wrong and then telling them to run their business better.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
-
Someone was kind enough to scan one in, I got hold of it and put it on my website at http://fantasticstories.8m.com - you'll have to read down through the text on the page to find the links, I didn't take the trouble to make it very obvious. Actually I got a copy myself, addressed to my "virtual" consulting company (me and a few sheets of letterhead paper), but I don't have a scanner.
Why is this marked as a Troll? I spend about 15 seconds on his web site and I found the link he mentioned.I would post it here for those of you to lazy to find it on your own - but maybe he doesn't want to get slashdotted.
Next time look before you moderate people.
Jeeze...
-----
All your license are belong to us
saw this silly poster in the subway... It's bright yellow, and it says,
If I know my typical, jaded NYC dwellers, I sincerely doubt that they'd be cowed into software subservience by the Boy Scouts of America.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
Standard disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer--but I play one on /.
-Legion
This story is very US-specific. In my country, the BSA is not only sending the letters, they're also the Gestapo visiting companies. In my opinion I think corps can refuse them entrance of the office building, and ask for a police warrant. But as ever - everybody fears the consequences of "bad attitude", perhaps it's a cultural problem here because everybody here believes that co-operation proves half of your innocence.
--
Bizar technology?
Every copy of Windows I've ever installed was pirated, so they don't have my address. Phew!
____________________
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Why not have the FBI and state police investigate the BSA for full compliance. Seems fair to me.
Exchange mp3s at will, errr, wait media and content are someone else's job, though the freedom to manipulate your own content is a benifit of free software.
Exchange MS Warez all day... Oh no, wait a minute that would just fortify the depenence on their "standards". And that's what the BSA is all about isn't it?
Do you really think there's some kind of plot to make the BSA dumber than it is? Nope, this kind of extortion is not a means, it's a prime cause.
The free software movement is very much a product of a free society. It's adption by comercial institutions, government and individuals will occur by free market principles or not at all. Volunteerism relies on freedom. The tyrants are in Redmond.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Yeah, yeah, keep it honest. Sell people what they want, be careful of store policy... but tell the truth to your cusotmers policy or none! Good luck.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I don't understand how these "audits" can possibly work. How can they prove that I have notpaid for the copy I am using, even if I can not be bothered to find any documentation? Isn't one of the main principles of western law that I am not guilty unless and until prven beyond reasonable doubt?
In Murphy We Turst
see above.
You're using her as bait, Master!
If you have a company with 25 computers it is easy to know that you have all of your licenses (or are running some other OS but we all know that no true company would ever do that or something) stored in a nice easy access place. Now when you have 10k PCs in different locations and some at people's houses for dialup access etc. It gets real hard to ensure your site licenses cover all of those then whether or not you can use the bundled license. So if you are a medium to large corp the audit to find out if you are compliant can easily run more than just buying a bigger site license. But then you have to worry if that made some of your other licenses out of compliance. Either way you throw money at Microsoft. Anyway just my rant since I got stuck counting PCs at my last job to ensure we had enough MS licenses.
I am 31337 or something.
My father runs his own business. He got one of these threatening letters, and called me over. Windows 98 came with his machine, and he purchased Word 2000. He wanted me to make cure that he had no illegal software on his machine, so I brought a copy of StarOffice 5.2 just in case he needed any replacement software. There was some software we were unsure of, that we removed. I installed StarOffice and showed him how it worked, and now he uses it in place of the corresponding MS software. He obviously still uses Windows 98, but good luck trying to get him to pay for another version of Word in the future. With StarOffice, he doesn't need it, or even want it anymore.
Sig free since 2/6/2002
2905.11 Extortion.
(A) No person, with purpose to obtain any valuable thing or valuable benefit or to induce another to do an unlawful act, shall do any of the following:
[snip]
(5) Expose or threaten to expose any matter tending to subject any person to hatred, contempt, or ridicule, or to damage any person's personal or business repute, or to impair any person's credit.
of FUD and an attempt to sell an audit by the idiots in cahoots with them, Zones, or whatever/whoever they are. Infect the business owner's mind with the idea that they could be out of compliance with licensing and could be audited and sued out of existence and soon enough, they go ahead and have Zones audit them to take their mind off it.
Personally, I could care less. It's not like the BSA, FBI and US Marshalls are going to storm in and start rifling through anything without a search warrant.
It honestly boggles my mind that, for a very small company with no cash to spare, he refuses to even consider open source options.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
There are at least three problems. 1) Until recently manufacturers didn't stick the licenses on the cases (many or most still do not. Personally, I don't like the practice; it makes licenses difficult to centrally track). What about all the machines in your corporation that don't have the stickers? 2) What about OS upgrades? Suddenly, I've got machines corporate-wide with Win3x stickers running 98 or NT. Now THAT's a licensing mess. 3) License transfers. If I purchase a machine preloaded with 98 (and with a 98 sticker on the case), but install OS/2 on the machine instead, can I transfer that license to a different machine instead? Do I have to physically move the sticker to the new machine? Of course, since every machine shipped comes with a preinstalled Microsoft OS, the mere presence of that machine on a company desk ought to be sufficient proof-of-OS-purchase, whether or not we had a certificate of authenticity in hand (or on the case). In other words, we should have been able to subtract the number of PCs the company owned from the number of licenses MS said we had to produce. If only life were that simple.
See my reply here.
I installed hundreds of OEM machines in the aforementioned organization; not a single one came with a license on the case. Usually, they came with a CD and a shrink-wrapped user's manual with a certificate of authenticity pasted to the cover.
But the whole preload question is moot. In not a single case did we ever use the preinstalled OS. The company had standardized software loads and configurations for each department, which meant that the first thing we did with any new machine was to wipe the hard drive and dump the company's configuration image onto it. Problem was, when Microsoft rode into town, they insisted licenses were non-transferrable; which meant that if we installed NT onto a machine that had been preloaded with 95 we had to purchase a new NT license; unused NT licenses were not applicable. After much arguing back and forth, it was eventually agreed that licenses were transferrable to machines with the same OS. But if a machine came preloaded with 95, and we dumped NT onto it, we ended up paying the difference in licensing price, any unused NT licenses we had lying around notwithstanding.
Of course, when we then requested refunds on all those unused licenses MS wouldn't let us transfer, I understand the Microsoft representative assigned to our case insisted that was the manufacturer's responsibility.
suppose you never ... have any warranty work done, because you're too damned lazy to save the receipt.
Wrong analogy. This is more like the store accusing me of stealing the item and insisting I repurchase it simply because I didn't keep the receipt.
Not necessarily true. In the Microsoft anti-piracy campaign, the burden is on the customer to prove his software is legal. A couple of years back I worked at a rather large organization (5000+ seats) which was largely a Microsoft house (with scattered pockets of OS/2 users). All PCs company-wide were replaced on a three-year cycle; new purchases were from established companies (IBM, Toshiba or Dell) and came preinstalled with Windows OSes.
One day, Microsoft came knocking, and politely requested us to produce a license not just for each current seat, but retroactively for the past five years stretching back to Win3x days. In that period of time something like 25,000 PCs had moved through the company. As you can imagine, it was impossible for us to locate licenses for even half of them.
The result was that the company was forced to pay several hundred thousand dollars to Microsoft to repurchase licenses on machines that had been legal all along; this included something like 3500 Windows 3.1 licenses for machines that had been depreciated out of the organization years ago.
In addition, each new machine that came in was wiped clean and reconfigured with the company's standard configuration. In some cases, machines that preshipped with Windows 95 were reconfigured with NT, and vice-versa. In other cases, machines that had been upgraded over the years (from, say Win3x to Win95). In many of these cases, we were forced to pay for multiple licenses, often on machines that no longer existed, one for the original installed OS, despite that fact that it was A) already legal and B) never even used, and one for the upgrade or target OS.
In sum, despite the fact that, to my knowledge, there wasn't a single unlicensed OS in the entire organization, we ended up dumping hundreds of thousands of bucks into MS's coffers simply because we couldn't prove that we were innocent. So much for American justice.
Woohoo! You're new here, aren't you?
Here's a hint: adjust your thresholds.
Also, try to have some basic understanding of why the code is the way it is. Fail to be so completely inane when you whine.
Any sufficiently well-organized community is indistinguishable from Government.
The great part is that the mere attempt to get into compliancy draws ire from Microsoft. "We note with interest that you recently purchased Exchange 2000 and X amount of CALs, and yet we do not have X amount of Office/Outlook licenses. Please prepare for an audit, as we cannot concieve of you using anything but Outlook, the premiere groupware collaberation tool, with Exchange 2000."
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
In case you were wondering how the BSA calculates these piracy statistics, it's very simple:
Notice anything particulary fishy about this? But, yeah, that's really how they calculate it. No wonder their figures are so inflated?
I got this information from an [AP? I think] article in my local newspaper. I have a scanned copy somewhere, if anyone's interested. Can't find another source online though, so if anyone could oblige ...
Dlugar
Computer Go: Writing Software to Play the Ancient Game of Go
Now if someone puts Office 2000 on a Tqiwanese ftp server, what law is being violated?
Import regulations. Unless the FTP server is firewalled off from the rest of the world, a counterfeit electronic copy of Microsoft Office 2000 is being imported every time somebody in a WIPO country downloads the software. If that isn't illegal now, wait until the BSA catches on to offshore servers in non-WIPO countries, pressures ISPs at the edge of the U.S. to firewall off Taiwan's IP blocks, and then lobbies for legislation making it unlawful to use a public computer network to communicate with non-WIPO countries.
Will I retire or break 10K?
How does the BSA get to levy fines so out of proportion to actual damages?
17 USC 504(c)(2) provides for statutory damages: "In a case where the copyright owner sustains the burden of proving, and the court finds, that infringement was committed willfully, the court in its discretion may increase the award of statutory damages to a sum of not more than $150,000."
Will I retire or break 10K?
It sounded like they just buy regular business mailing lists to find people to harass. But the BSA members have a decent list of their own...the people who send in registration cards. :>
I'm glad I never sent in one of those, even if I did miss out on important update news.
Watching the BSA in action reminds me of gangsters looking for "protection money" from local businesses to make sure that "unfortunate circumstances" do not befall the company.
Microsoft...er...the BSA will only get away with it as long as The Majority lets them.
There's a great and classic quote from Star Wars that summarizes the situation well:
--
Karma down to 50 again. Thanks Karma Kap.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
I can't disagree more strongly. This is essentially why RMS came up with the GPL in the first place. His immediate motivation wasn't to find a better way of squashing bugs or higher security. It was to avoid the obnoxious behavior of the companies that were selling proprietary software (though most of them were primarily hardware vendors at that time). He felt that their licensing practices were draconian and treated users as enemies. That's why placed so much emphasis on licensing issues; because licensing issues were what got him started down that path in the first place.
--
Karma down to 50 again. Thanks Karma Kap.
There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.
... but what's wrong with MS trying to get its revenue for software that they paid to develop?
If you're not pirating software, don't worry about it. In fact, tell them so. If you're not sure, shame on you. Keep better records. And if you're pirating, stop using that software. The rest of us had to pay for it.
(Note that this only applies to businesses. I have my own opinions about consumer software pricing and licensing, and rather like the way Oracle does it, i.e. free for non-commercial use.)
There's nothing wrong with free alternatives. But if you're running a business off of an MS solution, you owe them for as long as you've been doing so. If you don't like it, get away from it - no one's twisting your arm, and there are alternatives available.
Does Outlook Express even support connecting to an Exchange server?
well, having worked in an architectural firm, i can tell you that AutoDesk is a pretty major proponent of the BSA. They make a lot of money off of catching people who pirate AutoCAD, etc. Especially in Florida, Texas and California(iirc). The company I worked for never received a letter from the BSA while I was there, but one of the partnering architectural firms did, and ended up settling with AutoDesk for around 75,000 dollars(it might've been more, but that number is sticking in my head for some reason).
-Aaron
Don't try to frighten us with your closed-source ways, Lord Gates. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up more internet server market share, or given you clairvoyance enough to find all of the bugs in Win--
*cough*
*gag*
How come it hurted when I read that? :)
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
Anyone have a clue whether the BSA is actually asking an audit of companies who've made some purchases or are they simply going after anyone who's recently filed the appropriate paperwork to start or continue running a business? Reason I'm curious is that ever since I filed my paperwork I've gotten a huge amount of junk mail, much of which has dire warnings about this and that. So, is getting the BSA letter merely a matter of time, or do you have make some purchases to get their attention?
Fight Spammers!
Well, the first benefit that I think someone from the coporate/business arena would take notice of is the free factor. A healthy bottom line will be the most attractive thing to companies who aren't very pleased with the BSA's current tactics. I'm sure that's not the way you or I or lots of folks reading this would like to see companies come around to open source and free software, but it's probably a reality we need to face
--Kylus
--Kylus
Idiot-proof something, and Life will build a better Idiot.
Forget Open, remember Free.
It IS a good enough reason -- good enough for RMS. Free Software aint always better, but is IS always free-er.
"Excuse me? You're here to investigate? And who the fsck are you?"
Somehow I'm not shocked at the idea that this whole thing is little more than a shakedown. And I rather hope those who are dumping MSware number more than a few...
/Brian
You wouldn't want anything to happen to your nice shiny new company, would you? My associates Doug and Dinsdale Piranha don't generally *like* the idea of nailing your head to the floor for using software that isn't legally licensed to you. It's just not fun for us (and when I say not fun, I mean a whole hell of a bloody lot of fun). So give us money.
Signed, Spiny Norman the Hedgehog
You're accusing Microsoft of being clueful about things like that. They may be very good at sharking out a market, but they're also so arrogant that they actually believe the world at large wants a completely wired house, a cell phone that they can drive their car from, whatever.
They sure as hell weren't expecting the US Court of Appeals to give them the stay of execution and then say "Hold on, boys, we haven't disconnected the switch just yet..."
What they do understand is intimidation. If they lose that they lose the battle.
/Brian
Naw, not shotguns. Black ice (viruses, worms, etc.).
/Brian
The Business Software Alliance has been sending out threatening letters to companies across the US hinting that they may be audited for licensing compliance.
If the BSA shows up at your door, just don't let them in. If they force their way in anyway, that's called burglary. Sure, they can use legal force to get in by bringing US Marshals and/or FBI agents with them, but they would then need a search warrant.
---
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
Myself and our operations guy just got done doing a three week audit. our ceo was even hounding us for no reason.. I tried to tell them but no.. they wont listen to there sysadmin.. so now a few projects are way behind schedule. do they care that it was *them* who caused this? no of course not.
When I first saw this piece I thought I was about to read an article about The Boy Scouts of America becoming sailors.
I think that this is a load of BS 'eh
Is this how you want people to go to OpenSource?
They get threatened and pickup free software out of fear, or do you want them to do it on their own accord without proprietary bullying?
I guess anyway is a good way in most respects. At least more people will try it....
--
Fnord is that feeling you get when you reach for a Snickers and come back with a Slurpee.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
> It's another ideology, starting with 'C'. - Communism? ;)
and if it wasnt bad enough, they are giving bad press to another group (of which i am a member) with the same acronym which is already taking enought heat for their stance on some issues.
too bad there's no kind of accountability for this kind of $#!+
Shouldn't the quote be: "The tighter you squeeze the more systems will slip through your fingers"?
Between the "gestapo"-like tactics of the BSA sending letters out to every business owner this side of the hemisphere and Microsoft implementing their "new" XP Licensing scheme, it seems as though more and more people are going to be heading to open source. We, as a community, have to make sure that we welcome these people with open arms and help them beat the Windows bug that has plagued them for more than a decade now.
... ) ???
A side note: How long before there is a BSA sending letters to consumers? (Large businesses already have licensing checks and balances, now small/medium businesses are being cracked open
timothy, I hope she is okay and recovering nicely with new linux box...
Microsoft has bought advertising here in huge amounts and they're doing an interesting thing, which is that they have like 5 different posters, and 4 of them mention, casually, that disgruntled employees are the ones that turn in 80% of businesses for software piracy.
Now, if you've ever commuted on the NYC subway, you know that EVERY ONE of the people on the subway in the morning are disgruntled, and on the ride home, those that aren't have become suicidal. I wonder at Microsoft's not-too-subtle play to get people to turn in their own workplaces. It feels (and I hesitate because of this) like a similar idea to violence in the media, but I wonder whether people (80% of the BSA's business, in fact) would know how to tell Microsoft or the BSA about software piracy without the handy URLs provided on every poster.
thoughts?
8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
Since that vast majority of illegal software is microsoft, does this mean that microsoft software is more likely to fail, have viruses, and have other defects?
;-)
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Once done and BSA finds out how many copies of everything you have installed, they must then prove that you have not purchased licenses for all of them. They'll usually do this by issuing a discovery subpoena for all your software purchase receipts. If you cannot show all your receipts, all is not lost... In a protracted court case you may be able to show that based on the preponderance of the evidence BSA has not shown that you were not in compliance. The court case would probably cost a couple million in time and lawyer's fees. However, it would cost BSA just as much... What they will really be looking for is a settlement.
Now what would be more fun is to have the BSA audit you and then be able to prove compliance. You can then sue the BSA for a variety of penalties, and you can have them reveal who ratted you out and sue them. Of course, the BSA knows this which is why they say in the article that they do not seek court orders frivolously. A couple lawsuits against the BSA from companies that were compliant and audited could bring them to ruin.
Education is a better safeguard of liberty than a standing army.
Edward Everett (1794 - 1865)
Just want to make me move sooner. Somebody should put together a site of "fair-use friendly" countries with decent Internet access...maybe we should all move there.
B
Flamebait
Serious inquiries only.
I must admit, I'm slightly confused as to exactly how that replies to what I said ... where are you drawing your information on my software licensing habits from? Where exactly did you see that I'm vocally against software licensing?
Just curious.
CyberKnet
---
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
How many man-hours does it take to produce another copy of said software? (To be fair, they'd probably need more assembly line workers if the software was packaged in boxes and sold retail, but you get the idea.)
Jobs arent just making copies. Jobs are research, jobs are faster releases, jobs are more stable releases, jobs are new programs completely, which equates to more money. etc. The list goes on. This all takes money in the first place.
Here is a newsflash: money does not appear out of thin air. X more dollars spent on software means X less dollars spent on other things
Possibly, but not neccessarily, that money could end up in a savings account, accruing interest for a company, or individiual. I'm not sure how this effects the GDP, but it seems reasonable to think it probably does somehow.
However, less units of other goods and services sold would mean less jobs in other industries (example: if people start buyin fewer cars, Ford, GM, et. al. will have to fire workers). Therefore, elimination of piracy would result in a loss of jobs and would make the economy weaker.
This is based on a false assumption. Does more car sales mean less software sales? I argue that it does not. Money doesnt always neccessarily get spent. Sometimes it is saved.
I'm not barking for the BSA. Wait, I am. Kind of. If you use it, you should buy it. If you cant buy it, you shouldnt use it. But an unauthorised copy doesnt equate to a lost sale. But it still does equate to a broken law (copyright) and still is prosecutable.
More software sales means more jobs within that company as it expands to meet new markets. That isnt neccessarily a good thing all the time (read: microsoft) but its no reason to steal software.
---
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius
That would make it a non DFSG-free license, Debian requires that the license will have no discriminatory terms, not even against such bastards.
Yeah, that or they won't hear about it and will go out and buy huge numbers of M$ licenses (you know that w/ that child protection act and the fact that noting else works for Intel good enough for you that you must now be at least 13 and have one of these licenses to operate a car^H^H^Hcomputer - good marketing campaign?). They have an upper hand here because they have marketing. BsA ('cause BSA means boy scouts) and M$ can get together and plan a FUD campaign. We can't plan shit. See problem? See their idea working? See us doing shit - which we didn't plan? Strike 3, that strat's out.
People stick w/ what they have unless they see something that is more cost and time effective. Windows fit that bill when NT came out (enterprise ready out of the box - BULL!), and now it still fits the bill 'cause it's easier to stick w/ the norm. Linux has the cost down, short and long term if you get admins who know what they're doing, but people need to see that. They don't yet.
This space reserved for future uselessness
SIG: HUP
and nothing ever firmed in my mind more that I would no longer do business with Microsoft than a letter that started off with the following checkbox choices:
A. Big fines from the BSA, or B. Big savings from Microsoft.
(paraphrased)
And they sent it to the mailing label name/address combo I get all kinds of small-business related junkmail at-- which contains a serious typo so I already recognize it.
I do not have a signature
Yeah, but it's really the endodust you have to look out for.
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
In my hometown (San Luis Potosí, México), several cibercafès's managers have been receiving some letters from a national sister of the BSA. Now they are in contact with the local Linux User Group, hoping to move all their software to their free counterparts. The letters just gave them enough reason for get the free software.
I think the BSA knows that there will be mass exidust to free software if they start cracking heads over licences...
Once they do the first crack down, that is big, it will be all over the national news.. people will get pissed/scared/confused on what to do.. and will really start looking around for other options. But! only if free software capatilizes on it.. and gets word of mouth going so that people know its out there.
From what I've seen, the BSA doesn't go after corporations with big money to defend themselves. They just threaten the little-medium guys who would take a beating on legal fees should they turn down the BSA. Same strategy as the IRS.
Please remember, yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered the *BSA community when last month IDC confirmed that IIS accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on top of of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that the *BSA companies have lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. The *BSA is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
Oh, wait...sorry, wrong troll...
Kill, Tux, kill!
No, I won't be hosting it on my crappy geocities page :)
Bryon
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Actually, I got that account before Microsoft owned hotmail, and furthermore I see no contradiction in using up Microsft's mailserver space in an effort to counter their dominance- quite the contrary, why not use their resources to end their dirty practices? It's not like I click on their ads and create revenue for them.
Bryguy
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
I have heard that in some places, software companies are placing advertisements with the message "use pirated software/go to jail for 10 years". A well documented collection of these sorts of threats would be a great resource for those trying to promote free software and related services.
If no such archive exists, I would be willing to host such an archive. Email me at db8coach@hotnospampleasemail.com if you have a url or related anecdote. Pictures of ads, scans of letters, whatever.
Bryon
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
--
What's an EBNF?!?
I also really doubt that they are terribly interested in the small fry home computer user with a copied version of Win 98. This campaign is targeted to small and mid-sized businesses. That is where the most institutionalized piracy occurs.
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
Does anoyone out there have a copy of said letter, so we can see just how "threatening" it really is?
I think the people above me are having sex - or they're sleeping restlessly and agreeing with each other a lot.
Since when are the Boy Scouts of America so worried about software piracy? I thought they just ran around tying knots and playing with fire...
I think the people above me are having sex - or they're sleeping restlessly and agreeing with each other a lot.
<voice accent="italian" style="rough>
You forgot your closing quote... My VSML (voice synthesis markup language) parser just sat there and said nothing.
I mean it: read what the article says:
BSA use unsolicited e-mails as a marketing tool. Isn't it a spam?
the poor boyscouts of america (aka BSA) dont have enough people harping on them about not letting homosexuals into their organization, now angry mobs of IT workers will be assaulting 12 yr olds and tearing down summer camps all across the country ....
"Pussy: You spend 9 months trying to get out of it, and the rest of your life trying to get back in..."
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
Yeah 1-800-AUDITME Anyone who complains will be the first targeted for audit.
Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
Hmmm.... Can we rat on all those people who have one license for their Linux distributions and running on multiple computers? This is masterful. No sale == no receipt ;)
Sig: Tell all your friends NOT to download the Advanced Ebook Processor:
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
In slightly smaller type near the bottom it says, "License your software now, before the BSA licenses it for you" or something very much along those lines.
Sheesh!
--
Ask me if I'm a carrot.
Are you a carrot?
No.
Git dem dare gubbamint ay-jents offa yer land before dey find yer stills!
For Christs sake, that's the single most backwater response I've ever heard. "I'll shoot them if they dont get off my land."
How about this scenario? Pay attention, pappy, mmmmkay?
The BSA asks a federal court to require you to perform a software audit as part of their impending civil/criminal lawsuit against you. If you do not comply, you are held in contempt of court.
Better?
Better put that shotgun down, the state of Texas doesnt like people who shoot law enforcement personnel.
You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door.
This space for rent.
Unfortunately, based on the stories that I've heard, the BSA comes with police escort most of the time.
Gentoo Sucks
Wasn't that funny or what?
Make It Secret . Free JavaScript implementation of AES for your browser
The BSA letters went right where the MS "upgrade now or pay full price later" letters went. Right into the trash.
Next upgrade: Linux and Star Office!
OK, I admit...i'm getting lazy in my old age. I download RPMS; click; install. Sounds almost as difficult as getting a self-extracting zip.
-ted
All your money are belong to us.
The article's primary focus isn't that the BSA is playing hardball or that Microsoft is bad. The article is just talking about how the BSA doesn't follow up on these cases because THERE ARE NO CASES. The ad campaign is just being used as a scare tactic, and they're not going around bullying people like some victims claim (They may very well be, but not as a result of failing to agree to a Truce). Still, it is very unethical for the BSA to mass-market fear and propaganda like this. Should my company ever receive a letter like this, I'll probably end up calling the BSA to order them to take me off their mailing list unless they really ARE going to do an audit.
"Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
Er, that would seem to be the problem, yes?
It's not socialism that is to blame for the BSA's excesses. It's another ideology, starting with 'C'.
This is not to mention the nasty radio ads they've been running in major cities. If I owned a business I'd be having some pretty serious thoughts about where I could make use of Free Software.
I remember reading somewhere that since the BSA is not a government entity nor federal authority they do not have permisson to just walk onto a business property and conduct an audit without prior permission. If they do show up with out a warrant and federal authority you can just tell them to go away. Can anyone confirm this??
On Halloween I received a letter from the Business Software Alliance (BSA) which at first blush appears to accuse my company of using unlicensed software. They do not specify that the company is under investigation but say BSA is "cracking down on organizations in the {city} area that use unlicensed software". They go on to say that by registering with them you can take advantage of a 'Software Truce' and they "will not seek to impose penalties". This ticked me off quite a bit. After a careful reading I realized what it was, a scare tactic being snail-mail spammed at companies in my area.
If that were all that happened then it would not have been an issue.
The next day a brochure arrives from Microsoft, bright yellow with huge lettering:
(Please choose one.)
A. Big Penalties from the BSA
B. Big Savings from Microsoft
So first they have BSA threaten my company, then they offer to sell me software?
I am not an Open Source partisan. Most of my business is in dealing with Microsoft products and I myself hold a number of MS certifications. I am OS neutral whenever possible but this is making me reconsider that. I can't be anything but anonymous as I can't afford to get crushed just now. But what Microsoft is doing here is just wrong.
I am including the full text of the letter the BSA sent below. Following that letter is the brochure from Microsoft. Items enclosed in curly brackets are where I have removed identifying information:
Business Software Alliance
www.bsa.org Are you using unlicensed software?
1150 18th Street NW
Suite 700 If so, the Business Software Alliance
Washington, DC 20036 is giving you 30 days to get legal.
October 30, 2000 Your BSA Truce Participation #: {######}
{Company President}
President
{Company Name}
{Street Address}
{City}, {State} {Zip}
Dear {Company President}:
You may have heard that the Business Software Alliance is cracking down on organizations in the
{City} area that use unlicensed software. If your software is not licensed, you could be the
target of a BSA investigation
The BSA -- an association comprised of Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley Systems, CNC Software/
Mastercam, Corel, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates and Symantec -- works to educate
the public, and enforce intellectual property rights.
The BSA is calling a Truce. You have one month to get legal.
The BSA is offering a Software Truce in {City} between November 1 and December 1.
Take tins time to review your software installations and usage and, if necessary, acquire the licenses
you need. If your organization becomes fully licensed during the Truce, BSA will not seek to impose
penalties for any unauthorized copying that occurred before December 1 (unless your organization
has been informed it is already under investigation). If you are contacted by the BSA, just show your
Truce Participation Number and software purchase receipts to the BSA, to take advantage of the
Truce. [Please see the reverse for terms.]
Unauthorized copying is the same as stealing. If you're caught, your organization could face penalties
totaling hundreds of thousands of dollars. The enclosed document contains -news clips from
organizations that learned their lesson the hard way.
Not sure if you're fully licensed? We can help you find out.
Trying to determine whether your organization is using illegal software? Visit our website at
www.bsatruce.com for more information and to download our free Software Audit tool, or call our
special Truce hotline at l-877-536-4BSA (1-877-536-4272). If you find that you aren't 100%
licensed, contact your software vendor immediately and buy the software licenses you need before the
Truce ends on December 1, 2000.
Sincerely,
Bob Kruger
Vice President
Business Software Alliance
Back of letter:
Truce Participation Terms
The BSA is declaring a 30-day Truce between November 1, 2000 and December 1,2000.
1. For your organization to qualify for the Truce program:
o it must obtain a Participation # either through receipt of a BSA
letter or from the Truce website - www.bsatruce.com;
o its headquarters must be located within the following zipcode:
{City}: {Zip}
o it must not have previously received notice that the BSA or its
members (listed below) have received a report of infringement
and are investigating it; and
o prior to or during the Truce period (November 1, 2000 through
December 1, 2000), it must have acquired sufficient software
licenses to ensure that all software published by BSA members
installed on its computers is properly licensed.
2. After the Truce period ends, if your organization is notified by the BSA or its
members listed below that your organization is under investigation for copyright
infringement, simply produce your Truce Participation # and the dated proofs of
purchase showing that your organization acquired sufficient licenses for its software
installations during or before the Truce period. No penalty will be sought for
infringement that occurred prior to the Truce period.
3. For the purpose of the Truce, BSA members are: Adobe, Apple, Autodesk, Bentley,
Corel, CNC/Mastercam, Macromedia, Microsoft, Network Associates and Symantec.
Microsoft Brochure:
The choice is clear
Take control of your business' software assets
and save up to 20%!
The Business Software Alliance -- an
association of leading software developers
-- is cracking down on organizations nation-
wide that use unlicensed software. The
BSA is giving companies that aren't 100%
compliant two choices: get compliant with
copyright law or pay the price.
Take advantage of the BSA's 30-day Truce.
If you're fully licensed, we'd like to commend you for having
a sound software asset management policy in place.
If you're not sure, we encourage you to take part in the
Truce that The BSA is offering during the month of November.
During the Truce, the BSA. will hold off on software investi-
gations. This gives you time to check your software inventory
and if necessary, get the licenses you need before investi-
gations resume on December 1, 2000.
Check your compliance. And save up to
20%! We understand business is hectic. Thats why we've
teamed up with SoftChoice to provide you with a simple way
to double-check your software licenses. Put SoftChoice to
work for you, and here's what you'll get:
1. A free, confidential software consultation.
2. Up to 20% off on Microsoft Windows@ and
Microsoft Office products.
3. Expert advice on how to set up a solid
asset management plan for the future.
So take a proactive approach to protecting your software
assets. Call SoftChoice at 1-877-545-7638 and schedule
your free, confidential software consultation today.
It's the right choice.
Visit www.softchoice.com/truce
Not only that, but what is the license document? The certificate of authenticity? To prove your copy of software is legit I've seen things suggesting you need (a) the certificate of authenticity (b) a sales receipt (c) original disks/manual or (d) all of the above. When we went through an internal audit I went crazy trying to figure out exactly what the BSA wanted to prove our copies were legit. I never did find out.
Does anyone out there know? Have a link? Anything more substantial than, "I heard you needed..."
Dan
You are encouraged, and in fact demanded, to follow through on your threatening letter by the close of business on 01-Dec-2001. Failure to do so may result in the continued use of illegal software /* deletes deCSS archive and mirrors of Touretzsky's server from our quaint little dental office */ and other actions at our discretion. As you may know /* I think I read this somewhere */, it is against the law to knowingly threaten legal actions with no intent on following through on them. /* Barratry? In terrorem? Something... */ Please be sure to come out and investigate us as soon as possible.
Have fun!
Rgds,
Office of Dr. BillX, Family Dentistry
PS. Please ignore guard dog and electrified doorhandle.
(Enc: Cream cheese dildo and helpful usage suggestions.)
--
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
"If you're contacted by the BSA and doing the right thing, you have nothing to worry about. So, why respond? You can and be a good corporate citizen. [But] there's no reason why you'd have to react to a letter like this." You can and be a good corporate citizen. Excuse me I'm not a corporate citizen. I am a (insert country here) citizen. If the BSA contacts you ignore them. Don't even respond, especially if the letter is send via normal mail. If it is send via registered mail (which I doubt they do), then leave the country quickly. I heard Canada is nice this time of year.
What is pirate software? Software for inventory of stolen treasure?
There is another side to this though. Most of the CEO's I have met dislike extortion and threats every bit as much as you or I. I have known some who would make this decision just so they never have to worry about the BSA again. Then there is the "how dare some corporation that I spend purchase products from threaten me" attitude. CEO's are almost all control freaks. They are entirely likely to change software models if they are aware of the alternatives. The problem is that people high up in IT have too much vested in the current model to present the alternatives in a positive light.
"If there is nothing you are willing to die for, then you are not really alive." Myself
Get your lawyer in there immediately. The BSA is an interested party in any court case and should not be allowed in on the audit. The police will say that the BSA is there in their capacity as experts but legally that doesn't hold water. The police have the right to get an expert to conduct the audit but you have the right to insist on it being someone independent of the case.
"If there is nothing you are willing to die for, then you are not really alive." Myself
Here are 10 reasons why companies should participate in BSA's Software Truce Campaign today:
9. Proper software management saves time, money and makes employees more productive.
8. Illegal software is one of the prime sources of computer viruses that can destroy your company's valuable data.
7. Illegal software is more likely to fail, leaving your company's computers and their information useless.
6. You can expect no warranties or support for illegal software and won't have access to inexpensive upgrades.
Now, I agree that if you're going to use software that's licenced, you should pay for it, but these reasons are just asinine! I won't even bother tearing most of these apart, I leave that to a kindergarden class.
90% of software 'copying' (I will not stoop to their level by calling it 'piracy') is using the same CD to install on multiple machines. Who are they trying to kid? Don't they realize it just makes their argument weaker?
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
Has anyone wondered whether this "goat sex" guy is a good reason to get rid of the ability to post anonymously?
Or modify the software to continue to allow anonymous posting, but restrict anonymous posts from containing working hypertext links.
They should be required to provide an opt-out number...
Next time you see one of these BSA ads, or even better, the Microsoft ones, be sure to have a nice permanent marker ready, and make a small but visible note to educate the public about some alternatives that come for Free. Free as in "no cops busting down your door."
:)
If you see any FreeBSD graffiti on the 1-9 trains' ads, well, that wasn't me
--
Just because a few of us can read write and do a little math, doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the universe
None of these reasons hold any water. What's cheaper than free?
From the company's perspective, you get what you pay for. And a free (as in beer) up front cost doesn't always mean a lower total cost of ownership. In a company full of good people, maybe it does. While I agree that linux is easily superior, it's also harder to use. So if you have to train/hire people to use linux, or if the people you have can't deal with it, that costs you money.
Either you have a fairly new company that started off with Win95 or you've been down the training road before. Remember training your people to go to Word from Wordperfect? If you don't then you're a new company. I remember working for a firm switching from WP to Word and the transition was easy enough although not popular among the clerical staff. WP is a far more superior product
I agree.
More people write apps for Linux than MS.
So where are the apps? Do they exist? I don't see them, so they must not exist. I'm playing the devil's advocate. But really, it's hard to be heard through the huge MS marketing budget.
MS buys apps and loads faulty code into it and that's why it's soooo unstable. Those writing apps for Linux are real coders.
I've been an IT consultant for 11 years. I've seen microsoft produce some very good code and I've seem them produce a lot of junk. Some of it they bought, some they wrote. Some a little of both. The unstable windows code is unstable because of the way microsoft does business. Products are bought or written based on marketing hype and what sells, not what's good or needed. And the marketeers dictate the deliveralbe dates. This has produced a huge, complicated, difficult to maintain mess. Unix is clean because it's been around a lot longer. It's understood well by a lot of good people. And while not open-source, it was far more open than any microsoft operating system ever was. All this contributed to a good stable operating system.
When's the last time you checked out the apps available on Linux? Did you ever?
The point is marketing, the status quo, and covering your ass. If you're a CIO or director of IT, and it's your decision which software to go with, what are you going to choose? The clearly superior technical choice? Hardly. Most of those types of people Don't Get It (tm). And probably never will. But they do get company politics. And they're going to want someone to point at when things go wrong. It's the same reason people (stupidly) choose andersen/accenture for projects. Walgreens happily paid andersen $15 million dollars for their shelf space management system. I and three other consultants mentioned to them that we could write a far better system, in less time, for $1.5 million. They declined. Why? Because if the shit hits the fan, the executives wanted their decisions to be water-tight in the eyes of the people who would be examining their decisions. That system makes walgreens $100 million a year, and extra $13.5 million meant nothing to them. So when a large company has to decide which operating system to put on 1000 PCs, They go with the industry standard because no one will question that decision later, no matter how bad it was.
Hardware comes installed with MS? Funny, I thought MS only sold software. Oh you mean the PCs? You don't need to buy new PCs to install Linux ... it's so versatile that it works on even older PCs.
You're right, you don't need to buy new PCs to install linux. Have you ever tried to install a new operating system on 1000 PCs? You need an army of people. But if you tell the people above you to wait 6 to 12 months until they replace the hardware anyway, they'll get the latest version of windows installed "for free" at the factory. So which is cheaper? True, there are manufacturers who preinstall linux. But that's a bigger deal. Now you're changing operating systems and applications. Support issues change, which mean support people change. And there's training issues. It's all very expensive. And for what? (in the eyes of the executives remember) To have a cool new operating system? To be free of the evil microsoft menace? How much is Microsoft really costing us? What if they audit? What do we need to do to keep track of the licenses so that we can make the BSA go away? How much would that tracking system cost to write? Ok, so $50,000 for a license tracking system I (the CEO) don't have to think about vs. several hundred thousand or more in training costs, down time, support headaches, attrition, consulting fees, and more importantly, bad politics. While I don't like the answer, it's often an easy one to make. And add to that the fact that many executives are resistant to change, especially when it comes to things that are complicated or they don't understand. Windows has always worked, why change?
If business takes in entire picture into consideration when considering the costs then Linux would win hands down. IMHO business either take in the entire marketing BS spewed out by MS or they stick with the "old boys" business practices. My guess is the latter.
There are millions of people in this country who have worked very hard, taken courses and such, to gain "computer skills". To most people, this is not software development, this is keyboarding, microsoft word, microsoft excel. When people ask my wife what I do for a living, she tells them I'm a software developer. When they respond with "what's that", she says that it's computer related. Nearly always, they respond with, "oh I can do that! I send e-mail! I surf! I can use ms word!" They havn't a clue. And you're going to suddenly switch every one of these people to star office? In all things business-related, it's the cost of people that matters most. Getting people up to speed in a company can take six months or more. So every one of those people you lose costs you money. Some people would welcome the system not really caring that it's different. But others will leave because they want their "computer skills" to stay current. People quit over less stressful situations. And another thing, most executives are not stupid people. They know when something is marketing BS and when it isn't. And in all fairness, MS it taking a beating on the server side by Sun, HP, and IBM. But on the desktop, MS is king. And until Red Hat or someone like them reaches that critical mass of market share, that's not likely to change.
PS ... if you have that little confidence in the adaptability of your staff then it's time to sack them and hire people with more flexibility. Of course you may have to pay them more than min. wage. :P.
Let's pick on walgreens for an example. There are people working for walgreens who have been there 10, 15, 20 or more years. They're getting up there. You want those people's computer skills to turn on a dime? These are people with vast walgreens-related experience. These people may have good relationships with vendors, advertisers, regional managers. Hell, maybe the VP likes them. Maybe the VP is their brother. It all comes down to money. Losing people costs money. Training costs money. Lost productivity costs money. All of these things together contribute to the total cost of ownership which means that free linux isn't always free. Maybe that will change, but not for now.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
I really hope companies will change to Open Source for its quality and stability and not because of BSAs tactics.
Why is that so bad? Companies don't make software decisions based on coolness or justice. They make decisions based on the bottom line. How difficult software is to use equates to lost money in terms of man-hours and attrition. Difficulty in finding applications also equates to lost money in terms of man-hours in searching and/or consulting fees/salaries for writing their own. Companies choose microsoft software because it's cheap. It's cheap because you don't have to train people (very much) how to use it. Everyone writes applications for it. Hardware comes with it already installed, saving time. And businesses take the entire picture into consideration when considering the costs.
But believe me, as soon as there's a perception that simply having microsoft software will create a bottom-line-related nightmare and possible litigation, companies will abandon it. Partially because it's free (beer), but mainly because it's free (liberty).
That gives total cost of ownership a whole new meaning.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
People are never as simple as their stereotypes. This applies equally to Christians, Muslims, and Emacs-lovers.
(hahha- groannn-haha-groan... :-))
Aye, Bill Gates shall be me cabin-boy!
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Wipe your ass with it.
Literally. Wipe your ass with the warning letter, put it in an envelope, and mail it back to the BSA.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
The most sensible response I've received to this question is:
Buy a games console.
I've NEVER owned one, and I never even thought to purchase one, but it kinda makes sense. Initially you tend to think of the PC games you're going to miss out on. But there are a lot of console games that you can't play on your PC, right? Just like the MS operating system and MS Office apps, it's a matter of exposure.
Think of it - with the $$ you save on Office and Windows, you could afford a good console system. And your spouse / kids / roomie could play games without kicking you off your Linux system. Or vice versa :-)
That said, that answer may become obsolete as the Linux games market grows. MS's boorish behavior via its BSA proxy will only accelerate Linux adoption, so that markey may grow, which in turn may grow the Linux games market.
But the other, more important thing, is the learning curve of Linux.... in windows everyone's used to downloading a zip or exe file, and uncompressing/running it with no problems.
Yeah, this is a problem. But automated download/install systems are starting to shape up (Red Carpet).
Also, as regards the install difficulties, even that is getting better. And, as MS loosens its nut-snatch on OEM's maybe we'll see dual-boot PC's becoming an option? And once it's installed you gotta install a Linux OS A LOT LESS FREQUENTLY than a Windows OS.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Yeah, no kidding. They should have started out the letter with:
"AVAST, YE SCURVY DOGS:"
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
It would be more fun to waste the BSA's legal and investigative resources by "snitching" on completely legit companies. Wrongfully hassling honest folks would be extremely embarassing and expensive. If enough of this happened it would definitely make them more cautious about using strong-arm tactics. Most of their investigations originate from disgruntled ex-employees in the first place, so its already a messy affair.
I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full frontal lobotomy.
Be Legal, use Free-Software
Note: in portuguese Legal means Legal and cool.
Don't worry, I run linux EVERYday.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
My boss insisted after getting a letter from the BSA that I make sure "all software was compliant". Needless to say my boss has no idea how these things work, so I ended up being able to let him buy very expensive applications like photoshop.
The fines the BSA threatens are ridiculous, like in the hundreds of thousands. That would be our entire company's monthly income. My boss made sure that I made sure that we had all legit software.
I tried making a movement to open source apps here at work, because everyone kept opening VBscript viruses and such and making a whole lot more work for me that I wanted. However, My boss refused. It took our secretary, my boss, and a few others months just to learn windows, and they can't escape the idea that files on the desktop actually exist in a folder called "desktop" in the windows directory. So, it's free software but everyone knows learning curves aren't cheap.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
time to get the shotguns out me thinks... As soon as they appear hostile i shoot and then its self defence so its 100% legitimate ;-)
Here's the thing -- they're throwing propaganda at you. Misinformation and deceptive little claims wrapped around a few vague truths. They can not audit you, they must take you to court and the court must order the audit. And to do that they'll need some real evidence that an audit is nessecary, I'd think. They might be /insinuating/ that they have all the power of the IRS and law enforcement, but they do not. Don't trust big corporations to tell you the truth!
Ironic is how the Linux public was better off NOT knowing this story. (Just think of the extra customers they could have driven over to Linux...)
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Did anyone else see the irony of an anti-piracy campaign going around and scaring people and threating them with suprise raids unless given money? We live in a strange world, methinks.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
"Second, and possibly even more importantly, the tactics are often resulting in a switch to open source software."
Gee... i hope not. I really hope companies will change to Open Source for its quality and stability and not because of BSAs tactics.If the BSA and Microsoft are behind these letters, and they're threatening people with no intention of carrying out their threats ...
Remove the caps and hold to a mirror.
> 6. You can expect no warranties or support for illegal software and won't have access to inexpensive upgrades.
What inexpensive upgrades? I know some companies can afford to pay $80-200 to upgrade from Microsoft Frobozz v2.5.1 to Microsoft Frobozz v2.5.2, but most people I know can't.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
It's almost funny. Especially where the MS spokesperson says that Microsoft is commited to help their custumers achieve compliance(The ultimate happiness!). That one sounds a bit like the chinese cultural revoution. The BSA will help you achieve compliance and happiness for your own good. You'll hate us today, but with enough time and schooling you will become a good chinese. When we let you out of the camp, you will be new person and you will love us.
Well, Hitler and Stalin are out, the chinese got rid of the gang of 4. The way BSA are forging ahead, they won't last much longer either.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Anyone get the feeling that some exec got their feelings hurt by the OEM refund decision?
"What do you mean I can't charge you without your consent? Do you know who I am?!"
Gotta respect the tenacity, though. If not with a wimper than with a Tony Soprano bat to the head freaking bang.
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I remember something from my freshman English professor. She told us to avoid using the phrase "To be sure," in an article, because that meant you might as well say, "I'm full of bullshit, please believe me."
Piracy does not result in a loss of revenue, because many of those people aren't going to buy the product anyways. I know a lot of people who would switch to StarOffice if it wasn't so easy to get Office for nothing. It's the same problem that comes up every time there is an article in the newsmedia about the RIAA or the MPAA. I'm not sure what a better term for it would be, perhaps unrealized potential revenues? It's not a loss though. Check their income statement, no item for "Losses due to piracy."
Forgive me for not trusting the BSA for the stats on that either. That's like getting your lung cancer stats from Philip Morris.
"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom. Keep that in mind at all times." Bill Hicks
"Excuse me? You're here to investigate? And who the fsck are you?"
Exactly? Who the fsck are the BSA or any other corporate interest to act as law enforcement authorities? Did they attend a police acedemy or are they part of the National Guard? Are they Sheriffs? Are we turning over law enforcement to corporations now?
When a person is evicted for not paying the rent, does the landlord come in and evict the tennants? NO! It's the sheriff's office. This is a very disturbing trend of late. What with this bogus BSA having powers of attorney granted by Microsquish, Adobecrataics, et al. What the hell is WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? What the hell happened to due process? Shouldn't it be up to the BSA to sue a company for non-compliance and bring them into court? Have corporations gotten so powerful that they dictate how due process works now? Christ they have the same powers as IRS don't they? Correct me if I'm wrong here PLEASE!
That won't work because at the recent G8 summit in Genoa, Italy, matters like this were discussed the crux of which follows:
The interests that were included in these high level talks included
- OECD Dubai Emerging Market Economy Forum on E-Commerce, 16-18 January 2001
- Berlin,
DSE Policy Forum on "Digital Inclusion", 23-24 January 2001
- Davos, World Economic Forum Annual Meeting, 29 January 2001
- Cairo, IDSC/Egyptian Cabinet Conference on E-Business and Development, 12-15 February, 2001
- Naples, Third Global Forum, March 14-17, 2001.
Full text available: herethe BSA comes with police escort most of the time.
Yea I know, the police were too busy holding the BSA's hand while entering our company to notice this hooded guy in the parking lot picking car locks.
Don't steal. The government hates competition.
Fear and ignorance. Ignorance and fear. The computer is your friend. Maximum zeal, citizen!
UNIX *is* user-friendly. Its just more selective on who its friends are. --Scott Adams
I'm seeing a lot of responses from people who are NOT happy about the potential impact that this could have on the Open Source movement. I must ask...HOW COULD THIS POSSIBLY BE A BAD THING?
This is the best thing that could possibly happen for Linux and the rest of the open-source software packages available today...for many reasons. First, if businesses are actually "scared" into jumping off the M$ bandwagon, and picking up Linux, then a very important event occurs...Open Source gets a good, swift kick in its developmental ass, because there will finally be a solid financially-backed demand for driver and software development. This is a HUGE benefit for all of us Linux users, as the OS will finally get the development support it truly needs. Once this happens, Linux could finally make its way onto the home desktop in a decent manner! And on top of all this, we get the pleasure of knowing that MicroSoft bit themselves in the ass by pushing away their own customers!
So WHO CARES if it's not the most "honorable" way of gaining support? It's SUPPORT, plain and simple. And badly needed support, i might add.
How about this: BSA attacks a company supposedly because a disgruntled employee reports the company. But it wouldn't be illegal for a person n this company to make this report incorrectly, would it? If BSA receives loads of reports that turn out to be unfounded, that might break their terror strategy.
- Users that dutifully pay for their software (music, etc.)
- Those that blatantly pirate software (music, etc.) without regard for laws or companies
- Finally, and most relevant here, is the users that pirate software (music, etc.) if it's not too difficult.
It's this third kind of user that the BSA may scare, shame, or whatever, into paying for the software.Think of it like the death penalty. There are people that wouldn't murder others no matter what--the death penalty won't affect them. There are people that kill without a second thought--the death penalty won't stop them. Finally, there are people that won't kill only because there's a deterrant, the death penalty, keeping them from it. (Note: This is just an analogy; I'm not claiming the death penalty is an effective detterant.)
--
Aaron J. Shaver
http://aaronshaver.com/
MS has always been known for its brilliant marketing tactics, but recently they haven't seemed so smart somehow. This whole BSA thing seems like a desperate attempt to squeeze the market for every penny it can get in the short term at the expense of longterm PR. Are they hoping that once the tech economy bounces back they won't have to worry about negative fallout from past blood-sucking tactics? They look scared to me...
"ARRRR you fully licenced?"
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You'd be surprised at the broadband connection available to things crawling around in your hair.
Ouch - touche. I'd like to retract any support I may have implied for the BSA.
Last post!
BSA is a just a front for Microsoft.. basically, Microsoft is the ones behind this.. search the net, you'll see.. here is one sample.. http://www.inet-ne.com/cypherpunks/dir.1997.12.18- 1997.12.24/msg00319.html
>For Release:
>December 22, 1997
>Contacts:
>Richard Reynolds 415/665-6637 x240
>Kerry Lauerman 415/665-6637 x215>>Microsoft Blackmails Foreign Companies
>Switch To Microsoft, and Your Legal Problems Will Disappear
>
>Microsoft appears to be using the Business Software Alliance (BSA) to
>blackmail foreign companies into making exclusive deals with Microsoft, ...etc
There's a lot of talk about moving to Linux or rather any other open sourced O/S, and saying f* MS. I'm all for it, but I think there's a couple major things that need to be done before anyone but the hackers/coders/similar geeks (used in a loving way =) ditch Windoze. For most "regular" users, they use either office type apps (which do exist on Linux), or...they play games. Games especially. You can play way more cooler games in Windows than in Linux. Yes, some are ported to Linux, and I suppose there's a handful of cool Linux only games, but in reality, there's a short supply of bad ass games like we see in windows.
The reason is obvious, there's not nearly as much market share to release a Linux game over a windows game. Currently, the only thing I use my windows box for is to play Alice, Diablo 2, and Dune Emperor. And to recompile OpenGL apps that I develop in Linux, just to make sure they work in windows too.
But the other, more important thing, is the learning curve of Linux. Just installing it is difficult for most users. Admittedly, things are getting better, like SuSE's YAST2 and SAX2, which make plug and play and auto configuration way better. But for even such simple things like downloading a program...in windows everyone's used to downloading a zip or exe file, and uncompressing/running it with no problems. Most aren't used to downloading a tarball and compiling the source. I think the first thing that would need to be done is to ease the installation process and come up with some apps or different mechanisms for doing such simple things like downloading and installing a program, or doing some basic system maintenance. debs and rpms do a pretty good job, but there's still quite a bit of source only tarballs out there. But I think that if Linux, or any other open sourced O/S for that matter, is *really* interested in truly competing with windows for market share, these are 2 major things that need to be addressed. Don't ask me how, I'm just an intern =) But I think things start with lowering the learning curve. That doesn't mean dumbing it down, or changing the things about it that power users like. You can add stuff on top of it or just write applications to help out with this.
http://dark-techno.org