Doesn't sound like he was proposing a default-deny network, just proposing actual consequences for breaking the law (which in most jurisdictions requires the disconnection of illegal servers upon notification)
Generally spammers are contracted out or just trying to earn referral commissions - they aren't doing the selling themselves. Also, the money will go international, often to countries that aren't just going to say "OK, here it is" when you ask for the bank info.
Except that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. Nice try changing it to a meta-topic though, since you've been proven so wrong on the main points.
You can stop trying now, you lost about 3 posts ago.
Well, you said that a degree was a necessary condition for you to hire someone.
No...I never said that. Go re-read it, you need to work on your reading comprehension.
That seems to translate to you being extremely impressed by a degree.
Even if that premise were true, the conclusion doesn't follow. I could require a degree and still heavily vet candidates (in fact, I do vet everyone that claims the required skills). After reading comprehension, try taking a logic course.
Let's say you DO ambush the local officers coming through the door. You'd just be firing at cops that don't even have their guns drawn, in which case training on either side doesn't matter, its fish in a barrel.
On the other hand, if they even think you're armed and likely to use it on them, they're not going to come unless they already have better shooters - and the best will be on the point. And if we're talking SWAT, they're going to have the blueprint to your house, and they're not going to come in the front door without a flash/pepperball grenade - they'll tear down a wall if its the only way they can get the jump on you. And that's not counting the marksmen you mentioned, covering all the exits from across the street.
Anything in between is where the cops' training comes in handy for them. And situational awareness is exactly not looking around to increase awareness, it doesn't distract you from your focus.
What you've done is constructed an elaborate fantasy world where both sides are magically already in conflict with no backstory, and then dropped them into an environment heavily favoring the defender.
So its the police's fault that you exceeded the speed limit you agreed to when you got your license?
It helps to not be ignorant when talking about things like road safety. Speed limits allow people to do things like merge onto the highway safely, not just travel in a straight line without regard for others. Things like light timing, sign placement, and the actual construction of the road itself also take speed limits into consideration. The safe speed is the marked speed.
Going to college makes a person no more educated than going to a garage makes them a car.
Speak for yourself.
One of my classmates literally paid his way through school...How does learning to cheat yourself factor into a successful career?
This is a straw man argument and I don't know why you think this is relevant to the discussion, do you think I just hire people based on the lies on their resume?
Are you saying I should hire people who have no experience and no education?
And you haven't been in the industry long enough to know that interviews aren't conducted by HR: I'm a hardcore software engineer. I'm just not sure why you brought this up as it wouldn't have made my points any less true even I was in HR.
Vetting candidates is always challenging, even if you factor out that resumes are complete fabrications. It takes good programmers to spot other good programmers, no amount of education or certification can change that.
Company's growing and getting lots of buyout offers, but thanks for the concern. I find it curious you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I prefer a degree instead of experience, as if somehow I spurn experienced programmers without degrees, despite having made no such implication.
I've met enough programmers to know which ones don't need a degree to be effective. There aren't many of them.
If two people were truly equal in all other terms, then yes, the degree gets the nod. But why is that objectionable in any way? To claim this should not be the case would be to grant that not having an education is somehow superior to having one. Which makes no sense.
It's much harder to quantify "experience" - that doesn't mean it should be discounted.
Your position has changed from claiming I proved a demonstrably false statement to claiming that I am "extremely impressed" by pieces of paper, which is also wrong. You are provably and factually incorrect.
There's this thing called "reality" where the state of things don't depend on how you understand them.
So you will hire people who are humble and have practical experience?
Yes. Which as you readily admitted, is already inferred by that statement.
I don't give two shits what you "seriously doubt" and I've already invalidated the rest of your argument, but nice try. And before you go making any more bullshit assumptions, I bet I code more than you in any given week of the year.
Individual officers quite frequently don't have a lot of firearms training.
Youre missing my point that officers have a variety of training not directly related to firing at the range that increases their effectiveness with them, even if they are holstered all the time. Such as situational awareness, and being able to read body movements and facial cues. Not to mention psychological advantages such as the fact that they are under pressure every single day.
It's the culmination of all those things that determines the outcome, not just the number of bullets you discharge. The OP was implying that visiting the range a few times was going to be sufficient to outgun a cop.
+1. I've met people in their 30s still working on their degrees who were excellent programmers, and people fresh out of tech school who couldn't tell a compiler from their ass. It's not about paying tribute, its about showing you're not stuck up enough to actually shut up and try to learn something.
A small minority can also learn everything they need to on the job, but they'd have to be exceptionally driven, humble, and intelligent to be able to reach their full potential that way.
Point being you don't often see private citizens shooting up cops because of their supposed ineptitude with guns, and granted that's for a lot of reasons, one of which is that it's not as trivial to outgun them as OP suggested.
The thing about guns is people play counter-strike and go to the range a few times and suddenly think they're rambo. The simpler truth is that its a lot like sex and race car driving: every guy thinks he's good at it.
So which is it, did I prove that no employer evaluates the merits of their candidates and only cares if they have a degree, or that learning does not happen at institutions of higher education in 2 paragraphs?
Yeah...I don't think you know what you're talking about.
That's not true, for every hour of range training they get, they probably get 5 on small squad tactics, disarmament and CQB, and situation defusal. While not exactly in the realm of live fire exercises one might encounter in say, the marines, they have a small but significant edge over the average citizen -- by design.
Are you asserting that the training given to cops is inadequate?
That depends. The fact that they aren't trained for war zones says a lot of good things about our society and government.
As someone who makes hiring decisions and interviews prospects, I'm going to call bullshit. There is still real value in education. I won't hire people who think they're hot shit but haven't gone to college to get the ignorance schooled out of them.
Before I went to college for computer science, I knew everything. Then I learned otherwise. Now I owe my success to the skills I gained in college. You can't prove that with a piece of paper like a diploma, but there's some pretty damn good correlation, and I'll keep playing the odds with my hiring decisions, but thanks.
Are large numbers of stupid people graduating who don't deserve their degrees? Yes. Has higher education, to some degree, become commoditized and devalued?
Yes, but it does not follow that no learning occurs at universities.
So, uh, you know, don't lie about committing a crime you didn't do. If this really happened, it wouldn't be anyone's fault but the idiot who made up the story in the first place. I mean, it's not illegal to be a lying prick, but if its going to cause you a boatload of trouble, then just don't do it. It's not like law enforcement is psychic, so please dont turn this on the cops like its their fault if the kid's life is ruined.
Paper targets differ in many ways from trading live fire with people shooting back at you. To say shooting at the range trains you for combat is like saying that you can learn to drive by practicing to step on a gas pedal.
+1. You can often only get a permit to do certain things if you have adequate security, which generally involves hiring an on-duty police officer from a local government. Shooting a movie on a crowded street with replica guns comes to mind. As for GP's "its not like they have anything better to do" - I find it surprising the number of people who deride the very institution that lets our society function.
The distinction doesn't matter, the legal speed limit applies to everyone regardless of ability. Paradoxically, the people who think they are the best drivers cause the most accidents precisely because they think the laws don't apply to them. And I've never met anyone who deserved a speeding ticket (according to them anyways).
If you need any proof people are both terrible at driving and completely delusional about their own abilities, look at the percentage of people who rate themselves as above average drivers, then look at the vehicular accident rates.
tl;dr - nobody is special, if you use a public road, the legal limit applies to you.
Slashdot Mirror
Mod parent up. US corporate taxes are among the highest in the world. I've owned or run a company.
Doesn't sound like he was proposing a default-deny network, just proposing actual consequences for breaking the law (which in most jurisdictions requires the disconnection of illegal servers upon notification)
Generally spammers are contracted out or just trying to earn referral commissions - they aren't doing the selling themselves. Also, the money will go international, often to countries that aren't just going to say "OK, here it is" when you ask for the bank info.
Except that doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. Nice try changing it to a meta-topic though, since you've been proven so wrong on the main points.
Well, you said that a degree was a necessary condition for you to hire someone.
No...I never said that. Go re-read it, you need to work on your reading comprehension.
That seems to translate to you being extremely impressed by a degree.
Even if that premise were true, the conclusion doesn't follow. I could require a degree and still heavily vet candidates (in fact, I do vet everyone that claims the required skills). After reading comprehension, try taking a logic course.
You know, maybe at a university?
Let's say you DO ambush the local officers coming through the door. You'd just be firing at cops that don't even have their guns drawn, in which case training on either side doesn't matter, its fish in a barrel.
On the other hand, if they even think you're armed and likely to use it on them, they're not going to come unless they already have better shooters - and the best will be on the point. And if we're talking SWAT, they're going to have the blueprint to your house, and they're not going to come in the front door without a flash/pepperball grenade - they'll tear down a wall if its the only way they can get the jump on you. And that's not counting the marksmen you mentioned, covering all the exits from across the street.
Anything in between is where the cops' training comes in handy for them. And situational awareness is exactly not looking around to increase awareness, it doesn't distract you from your focus.
What you've done is constructed an elaborate fantasy world where both sides are magically already in conflict with no backstory, and then dropped them into an environment heavily favoring the defender.
Which sounds a lot like a video game.
So its the police's fault that you exceeded the speed limit you agreed to when you got your license?
It helps to not be ignorant when talking about things like road safety. Speed limits allow people to do things like merge onto the highway safely, not just travel in a straight line without regard for others. Things like light timing, sign placement, and the actual construction of the road itself also take speed limits into consideration. The safe speed is the marked speed.
Going to college makes a person no more educated than going to a garage makes them a car.
Speak for yourself.
One of my classmates literally paid his way through school...How does learning to cheat yourself factor into a successful career?
This is a straw man argument and I don't know why you think this is relevant to the discussion, do you think I just hire people based on the lies on their resume?
Are you saying I should hire people who have no experience and no education?
And you haven't been in the industry long enough to know that interviews aren't conducted by HR: I'm a hardcore software engineer. I'm just not sure why you brought this up as it wouldn't have made my points any less true even I was in HR.
Vetting candidates is always challenging, even if you factor out that resumes are complete fabrications. It takes good programmers to spot other good programmers, no amount of education or certification can change that.
Company's growing and getting lots of buyout offers, but thanks for the concern. I find it curious you immediately jumped to the conclusion that I prefer a degree instead of experience, as if somehow I spurn experienced programmers without degrees, despite having made no such implication.
I've met enough programmers to know which ones don't need a degree to be effective. There aren't many of them.
If two people were truly equal in all other terms, then yes, the degree gets the nod. But why is that objectionable in any way? To claim this should not be the case would be to grant that not having an education is somehow superior to having one. Which makes no sense.
It's much harder to quantify "experience" - that doesn't mean it should be discounted.
Your statement is incorrect on so many levels I don't know where to start.
Claiming that education is not useless is now right-wing? Seriously? Your thought process is so fucked up that you clearly can't even articulate it.
By the way, I am pro gay marriage, pro strong government regulation, and pro legalization. So there goes that right-wing posit.
tl;dr: Shut the hell up.
Uhh...no. You convinced yourself that I did.
Your position has changed from claiming I proved a demonstrably false statement to claiming that I am "extremely impressed" by pieces of paper, which is also wrong. You are provably and factually incorrect.
There's this thing called "reality" where the state of things don't depend on how you understand them.
So you will hire people who are humble and have practical experience?
Yes. Which as you readily admitted, is already inferred by that statement.
I don't give two shits what you "seriously doubt" and I've already invalidated the rest of your argument, but nice try. And before you go making any more bullshit assumptions, I bet I code more than you in any given week of the year.
Individual officers quite frequently don't have a lot of firearms training.
Youre missing my point that officers have a variety of training not directly related to firing at the range that increases their effectiveness with them, even if they are holstered all the time. Such as situational awareness, and being able to read body movements and facial cues. Not to mention psychological advantages such as the fact that they are under pressure every single day.
It's the culmination of all those things that determines the outcome, not just the number of bullets you discharge. The OP was implying that visiting the range a few times was going to be sufficient to outgun a cop.
Sure, maybe at the range.
+1. I've met people in their 30s still working on their degrees who were excellent programmers, and people fresh out of tech school who couldn't tell a compiler from their ass. It's not about paying tribute, its about showing you're not stuck up enough to actually shut up and try to learn something.
A small minority can also learn everything they need to on the job, but they'd have to be exceptionally driven, humble, and intelligent to be able to reach their full potential that way.
Point being you don't often see private citizens shooting up cops because of their supposed ineptitude with guns, and granted that's for a lot of reasons, one of which is that it's not as trivial to outgun them as OP suggested.
The thing about guns is people play counter-strike and go to the range a few times and suddenly think they're rambo. The simpler truth is that its a lot like sex and race car driving: every guy thinks he's good at it.
So which is it, did I prove that no employer evaluates the merits of their candidates and only cares if they have a degree, or that learning does not happen at institutions of higher education in 2 paragraphs?
Yeah...I don't think you know what you're talking about.
That's all cops get.
That's not true, for every hour of range training they get, they probably get 5 on small squad tactics, disarmament and CQB, and situation defusal. While not exactly in the realm of live fire exercises one might encounter in say, the marines, they have a small but significant edge over the average citizen -- by design.
Are you asserting that the training given to cops is inadequate?
That depends. The fact that they aren't trained for war zones says a lot of good things about our society and government.
As someone who makes hiring decisions and interviews prospects, I'm going to call bullshit. There is still real value in education. I won't hire people who think they're hot shit but haven't gone to college to get the ignorance schooled out of them.
Before I went to college for computer science, I knew everything. Then I learned otherwise. Now I owe my success to the skills I gained in college. You can't prove that with a piece of paper like a diploma, but there's some pretty damn good correlation, and I'll keep playing the odds with my hiring decisions, but thanks.
Are large numbers of stupid people graduating who don't deserve their degrees? Yes. Has higher education, to some degree, become commoditized and devalued?
Yes, but it does not follow that no learning occurs at universities.
+1 and I wish law enforcement would be more willing to exercise this right, we need less psychos on our roads.
So, uh, you know, don't lie about committing a crime you didn't do. If this really happened, it wouldn't be anyone's fault but the idiot who made up the story in the first place. I mean, it's not illegal to be a lying prick, but if its going to cause you a boatload of trouble, then just don't do it. It's not like law enforcement is psychic, so please dont turn this on the cops like its their fault if the kid's life is ruined.
Paper targets differ in many ways from trading live fire with people shooting back at you. To say shooting at the range trains you for combat is like saying that you can learn to drive by practicing to step on a gas pedal.
+1. You can often only get a permit to do certain things if you have adequate security, which generally involves hiring an on-duty police officer from a local government. Shooting a movie on a crowded street with replica guns comes to mind. As for GP's "its not like they have anything better to do" - I find it surprising the number of people who deride the very institution that lets our society function.
The distinction doesn't matter, the legal speed limit applies to everyone regardless of ability. Paradoxically, the people who think they are the best drivers cause the most accidents precisely because they think the laws don't apply to them. And I've never met anyone who deserved a speeding ticket (according to them anyways).
If you need any proof people are both terrible at driving and completely delusional about their own abilities, look at the percentage of people who rate themselves as above average drivers, then look at the vehicular accident rates.
tl;dr - nobody is special, if you use a public road, the legal limit applies to you.