Re:"SuSE is the worst..." - Eric Raymond
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SuSE 6.4 Announced
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· Score: 1
Yeah. We could all be using software that's about a year old. Sorry, I just don't buy that. I want CURRENT software and a CURRENT organization that stands up for me.. not one who has so many developer fights about who has the bigger "codebase" and how holy they can be.
And Debian, the one you leave out, last released a distribution One year and 8 days ago. That's 373 days. (Yes, I know about potato, but come on.. one release every 373 days, and counting?) Maybe these "Over commercializers" just want to keep things relatively current? BTW, the last Suse was released in December. This Suse is 4 months away from the last one. That is ~3 releases a year, pretty damn good considering that the Linux Toolkit from Infomagic at one time released 4 times a year (an still does). I think once every four months is a good turn around time, in this fast moving linux market.
Re:When it is finally out can I just download an I
on
SuSE 6.4 Announced
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· Score: 3
The ISO is good, yes. But I REALLY recommend buying the full. CompUSA sometimes has it for $19.99 , and hell, you get so much on those 6 CDs.. I mean.. it's incredible. ANd the MANUAL! It's the best one I've EVER seen. It doesn't explain how to do things like redhat's does. It explains WHY things work.
SUSE has the OpenSound System included as one of their PAY options on the 6CD set. I think it's on CD#4. Anyway, you just run oss-install.. and boom:) Done:)
First off, let me address the subject. I am out of touch with reality. Perhaps I am with the United States or "Democratic-centric" view of the world. What I am proposing is incredibly paranoid. I know that. But then I look at China's history. I look at their present. I look at the people from Falun Gong being sent to hard labor for 8 years+ for free thought. Then I look at the internet and how it promotes free thought. Face it. Look through the last ten - fifteen years. Everything China has done is outright Orwellian, from the One Family, One Child forced abortions, to Tiennamen square, to Falun Gong. They are controlling their people. Their TV is state run, their media is state run, their electric companies are state run. The people of China at this time get little say in what goes on. The fact is that while I say paranoid things for the US, those things are not so paranoid for China. We'll see what happens with Red Flag and what is true and not true. The fact is that I can't see the future, but I can predict based on the past. And the past for China isn't too clear.
Now, as for kernel recompiling.. I don't know of any such cases in China. I do know of massive censorship, though. I know of thought control and punishments of jail terms, hard labor, and death. I know that they are a major controling entity of their people. And now I see them doing this. The internet is a key source of free thought and information. It is silly to think that they would suddenly change horses in midstream and allow people to do whatever they want with the Linux OS on the net. We'll have to wait and see , though.
So.. call me paranoid and say I'm out of touch with reality. Now imagine if you were there and you got sentenced to 10 years hard labor because you meditated with Falun Gong. I'm glad it's not true and that I'm out of touch with reality. Tell that to those people who are working in mines or what not in Chinese labor camps.
Oh, and of course the chinese government will definatly allow the users to grab the clean source and recompile it all, right? Cause they're such an open government and they let people practice whatever religious and social beliefs they believe in, like Falun Gong. *chuckles* You are of course , assuming that they will LET people recompile stuff in and out.
Oooh.. this is REALLY neat:) My bet is that China will be using Red Flag Linux to monitor the access and email and other such things of all it's people. ANd why go through MSFT to get them to put these backdoors in when it's quite easy enough to take the linux code and hack the backdoors in there. Sure, the GPL says they have to release the code, but.. really now:) It's all just another form of big brother. China wants to watch their people. This is the easiest way and most cost effective way. Use the source:) Mags
How can anyone prove code is being stolen ANYWAY? If the product is closed, there's no way of telling WHAT code went into it. Doubly so if the theif is smart and changes function names to mask obscurely. The fact is that whether you choose GPL or BSD or whatever, if someone wants to steal your code, they will. License be damned. And proving that they stole it would probably cost you more time, money, and energy than writing it initially could have. Fact is, also, if people are going to make money off your product under the GPL or BSD, you aren't going to see it. And that's no matter WHAT license you use. We have two worlds meeting.. and ours doesn't have a capitalistic sense. Mags
I wonder.. another comment on this thread said this was "Marketed Hoop-la." When did ANYONE BUT SLASHDOT market this browser? I don't see Operasoftware doing jack out there.. I don't see the programmers bragging about it (except every so often on their "project magic" Page, but everyone knows where that is..) I am so sick of slashdot deciding that "THIS IS THE MECCA of ALL THINGS" and forcing people to believe it. Opera is quite clear that this is BUGGY. It's slashdot that lies, not the people producing this software. Magnwa
Does anybody really read EULA's? ALL EULA's are contracts (whether in US or Canada) and as such are only legally enforcable against people above the age of majority. As such, this makes it illegal for minors to enter into contracts, and to enter into EULA's. (Also, might it be noticed that minors in the US cannot own property either, it all belongs to their legal gaurdians.) Mags
What's so bad about this? We put anti-windows messages on our pages. We link to linux sites and say over and over how bad their product is and how good ours is. What's wrong with another company doing that? And all you need to do is click on their link after reading their pitch, and they'll take you directly to Yahoo. (Not the search for Yahoo, but the take me directly to their site link). I don't get how selling your product over a competitor's is bad. We do it all the time. Are we being hypocritical?
You don't need to use JUST patches. Hell, most windows people would only be interested in a binary version anyway.. it's not hard to make a patch.. you just change the entire source to your fitting, diff the original and the final, and offer them both for download. I can't see a windows person going for a source of a widgetset, though.. it's not how they operate. And why not? GTK was ported over to Windows in patches for a long time.. what's so bad about porting QT over?
Because if it gets tested, it will scare a LOT of potential supporters who are on the edge away. If it gets tested and fails, then Linux will spiral down and BSD will skyrocket. Why? Cause businesses will see the legal trouble, the same way they did with the BSD/AT&T stuff, and they'll jump ship as fast as they did with BSD. Once Linux gets more market penetration, maybe then it'd be a good time for a test. But in the middle of Microsoft's antitrust suit (They are the ones more than likely to try to subvert GPL), in an upswinging economy, with over valued Linux stock making everyone who jumps on it rich? Nuh-uh. That's not the business way. Once the Linux stocks begin to collapse, and the major computer companies buy out the floundering Linux companies.. then it'd be time to have the GPL tested.
True. Lemme correct some of the previous poster's errors. While Sun will remain the copyright holder either way, the GPL would give rise to the same problems that are causing Redhat and other Linux companies to lose money. How hard is it to grab a CDR and burn thirty copies of redhat's official distribution. (Which, for the most part, you can do.) That's what the GPL allows. It's great for free software, but it absolutely sucks if you wish to turn a buck. And that's good, since it was WRITTEN for free software. Read the 10-Q's and the other financials for the linux companies out there. Nobody's making a real profit from this GPL craze. Everyone's making tons in revnues with killer costs. I can't blame Sun for wanting to make money..
Umm.. isn't QT2.0 out there to fix that? I thought that it was released under the QPL and thus anyone can take it and just port it to windows on their own volition?
Wasn't this argument handled LONG ago? It's over. Even the big OSS magnates are saying KDE is freer now that QT 2 is on the way. And KOffice will use QT2 and KDE 2.
Who said BSD is dead? That's the current problem. At least the way I see it it is. Just because Linux is in the limelight right now doesn't mean it'll be there forever. And while it is nice that these companies are going IPO and their stock is going up, I've not seen an IPO'd linux company that's making more money than it's losing (If you wish to, let me see them). The point is that BSD isn't dead at all, and more and more people use it everyday:)
As for testing the GPL? Why? Why do we need to test it? I for one think it won't suceed in court because it forms a pseudo-trust, in which all entities work together against its' competitor (Closed source.) But that's my personal opinion.
Corel's on the ropes as is. Let's not ruin them.. their stock already took a beating for what we did a couple weeks ago (And what their CEO did.. that will affect their stock when it starts actively trading again.)
Well.. according to some, the MPL is a GPL'able license. Not to me, however, but your milage may vary. Since I believe Netscape will take features and code of Mozilla under the wings of the NPL, I do not believe it to be a free license. BUT! That's just my interpretation and speculation.. not the absolute truth:)
Now see? That's a good idea. The problem with UIs now is that they are being created by hackers and not by users. If we did some research, we'd discover that the users dictate the types of UI's that work best for them, and then we'd code to that. Not to some inane thought of what we think the UI should be. (Or worse, some bloated themeware that envelopes the entire widgetset.. ouch..some people don't care what's outside the HTML widget and care more about how damn usable it is. I'm not going for 3r33t surfing here, just useful surfing) Magnwa
Now I hope the MOzilla people read this.. I would REALLY like to see aliasable bookmarks. Hitting 'a' to get to altavista, 's' to get to slashdot. Does anyone know of a way to do this NOW in Linux? (Maybe KDE hotkeys?)
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah. We could all be using software that's about a year old. Sorry, I just don't buy that. I want CURRENT software and a CURRENT organization that stands up for me.. not one who has so many developer fights about who has the bigger "codebase" and how holy they can be.
It's called production. Try doing it.
And Debian, the one you leave out, last released a distribution One year and 8 days ago. That's 373 days. (Yes, I know about potato, but come on.. one release every 373 days, and counting?) Maybe these "Over commercializers" just want to keep things relatively current? BTW, the last Suse was released in December. This Suse is 4 months away from the last one. That is ~3 releases a year, pretty damn good considering that the Linux Toolkit from Infomagic at one time released 4 times a year (an still does). I think once every four months is a good turn around time, in this fast moving linux market.
The ISO is good, yes. But I REALLY recommend buying the full. CompUSA sometimes has it for $19.99 , and hell, you get so much on those 6 CDs.. I mean.. it's incredible. ANd the MANUAL! It's the best one I've EVER seen. It doesn't explain how to do things like redhat's does. It explains WHY things work.
SUSE has the OpenSound System included as one of their PAY options on the 6CD set. I think it's on CD#4. Anyway, you just run oss-install.. and boom :) Done :)
First off, let me address the subject. I am out of touch with reality. Perhaps I am with the United States or "Democratic-centric" view of the world. What I am proposing is incredibly paranoid. I know that. But then I look at China's history. I look at their present. I look at the people from Falun Gong being sent to hard labor for 8 years+ for free thought. Then I look at the internet and how it promotes free thought. Face it. Look through the last ten - fifteen years. Everything China has done is outright Orwellian, from the One Family, One Child forced abortions, to Tiennamen square, to Falun Gong. They are controlling their people. Their TV is state run, their media is state run, their electric companies are state run. The people of China at this time get little say in what goes on. The fact is that while I say paranoid things for the US, those things are not so paranoid for China. We'll see what happens with Red Flag and what is true and not true. The fact is that I can't see the future, but I can predict based on the past. And the past for China isn't too clear.
Now, as for kernel recompiling.. I don't know of any such cases in China. I do know of massive censorship, though. I know of thought control and punishments of jail terms, hard labor, and death. I know that they are a major controling entity of their people. And now I see them doing this. The internet is a key source of free thought and information. It is silly to think that they would suddenly change horses in midstream and allow people to do whatever they want with the Linux OS on the net. We'll have to wait and see , though.
So.. call me paranoid and say I'm out of touch with reality. Now imagine if you were there and you got sentenced to 10 years hard labor because you meditated with Falun Gong. I'm glad it's not true and that I'm out of touch with reality. Tell that to those people who are working in mines or what not in Chinese labor camps.
Magwna
Oh, and of course the chinese government will definatly allow the users to grab the clean source and recompile it all, right? Cause they're such an open government and they let people practice whatever religious and social beliefs they believe in, like Falun Gong. *chuckles* You are of course , assuming that they will LET people recompile stuff in and out.
Oooh.. this is REALLY neat :) My bet is that China will be using Red Flag Linux to monitor the access and email and other such things of all it's people. ANd why go through MSFT to get them to put these backdoors in when it's quite easy enough to take the linux code and hack the backdoors in there. Sure, the GPL says they have to release the code, but.. really now :) It's all just another form of big brother. China wants to watch their people. This is the easiest way and most cost effective way. Use the source :) Mags
How can anyone prove code is being stolen ANYWAY? If the product is closed, there's no way of telling WHAT code went into it. Doubly so if the theif is smart and changes function names to mask obscurely. The fact is that whether you choose GPL or BSD or whatever, if someone wants to steal your code, they will. License be damned. And proving that they stole it would probably cost you more time, money, and energy than writing it initially could have. Fact is, also, if people are going to make money off your product under the GPL or BSD, you aren't going to see it. And that's no matter WHAT license you use. We have two worlds meeting.. and ours doesn't have a capitalistic sense. Mags
I wonder.. another comment on this thread said this was "Marketed Hoop-la." When did ANYONE BUT SLASHDOT market this browser? I don't see Operasoftware doing jack out there.. I don't see the programmers bragging about it (except every so often on their "project magic" Page, but everyone knows where that is..) I am so sick of slashdot deciding that "THIS IS THE MECCA of ALL THINGS" and forcing people to believe it. Opera is quite clear that this is BUGGY. It's slashdot that lies, not the people producing this software.
Magnwa
Does anybody really read EULA's? ALL EULA's are contracts (whether in US or Canada) and as such are only legally enforcable against people above the age of majority. As such, this makes it illegal for minors to enter into contracts, and to enter into EULA's. (Also, might it be noticed that minors in the US cannot own property either, it all belongs to their legal gaurdians.) Mags
What's so bad about this? We put anti-windows messages on our pages. We link to linux sites and say over and over how bad their product is and how good ours is. What's wrong with another company doing that? And all you need to do is click on their link after reading their pitch, and they'll take you directly to Yahoo. (Not the search for Yahoo, but the take me directly to their site link). I don't get how selling your product over a competitor's is bad. We do it all the time. Are we being hypocritical?
Magnwa
Because if it gets tested, it will scare a LOT of potential supporters who are on the edge away. If it gets tested and fails, then Linux will spiral down and BSD will skyrocket. Why? Cause businesses will see the legal trouble, the same way they did with the BSD/AT&T stuff, and they'll jump ship as fast as they did with BSD. Once Linux gets more market penetration, maybe then it'd be a good time for a test. But in the middle of Microsoft's antitrust suit (They are the ones more than likely to try to subvert GPL), in an upswinging economy, with over valued Linux stock making everyone who jumps on it rich? Nuh-uh. That's not the business way. Once the Linux stocks begin to collapse, and the major computer companies buy out the floundering Linux companies.. then it'd be time to have the GPL tested.
Magnwa
So I wait for Koffice
Magnwa
Wasn't this argument handled LONG ago? It's over. Even the big OSS magnates are saying KDE is freer now that QT 2 is on the way. And KOffice will use QT2 and KDE 2.
magnwa
As for testing the GPL? Why? Why do we need to test it? I for one think it won't suceed in court because it forms a pseudo-trust, in which all entities work together against its' competitor (Closed source.) But that's my personal opinion.
Corel's on the ropes as is. Let's not ruin them.. their stock already took a beating for what we did a couple weeks ago (And what their CEO did.. that will affect their stock when it starts actively trading again.)
Magnwa
Well.. according to some, the MPL is a GPL'able license. Not to me, however, but your milage may vary. Since I believe Netscape will take features and code of Mozilla under the wings of the NPL, I do not believe it to be a free license. BUT! That's just my interpretation and speculation.. not the absolute truth :)
Now see? That's a good idea. The problem with UIs now is that they are being created by hackers and not by users. If we did some research, we'd discover that the users dictate the types of UI's that work best for them, and then we'd code to that. Not to some inane thought of what we think the UI should be. (Or worse, some bloated themeware that envelopes the entire widgetset.. ouch. .some people don't care what's outside the HTML widget and care more about how damn usable it is. I'm not going for 3r33t surfing here, just useful surfing) Magnwa
Now I hope the MOzilla people read this.. I would REALLY like to see aliasable bookmarks. Hitting 'a' to get to altavista, 's' to get to slashdot. Does anyone know of a way to do this NOW in Linux?
(Maybe KDE hotkeys?)