Sorry, but I can't resist but point out that it's usually the case that you put on the tinfoil hat if you're paranoid (to keep out "their" radio waves) and take it off if you're trusting, unconcerned or otherwise "gullible" (in the opinion of the person with the tinfoil hat).
Of course, maybe you mean to take off the tinfoil hat so "they" can't find you in a crowd. Very sly.....
Well, until it's free, there's always textfiles.com.
Actually, a while ago I copied a lot of the Project Gutenberg library, along with some others, and created etext.textfiles.com.
In my experience, the reason a lot of people don't donate free time to transcription or other similar drudge work is because a lot of sites that encourage it steal it. Witness CDDB, and just wait to see how long before you pay for IMDB.
Well, not "ever" as it currently stands, but because they've extended the copyright several times in the past century to the point that it's pretty much beyond our lifetimes, and the Court has now said that such machinations are legal, we can expect never to see copyrights expire again.
Assumptively, the Supreme Court said "It's not unconstitutional for such a law to pass, and if you don't like it, go pass a different law." Which is entirely correct, we could always have legislation in the future to reverse this.... but don't hold your copy of Steamboat Willy at the duplicator anytime soon.
"these works... stand on their own. Obviously, you do not." Sounds like an insult.
Read it again. The actual two sentences were "Compressed by the same amount that all of computer history has been compressed, we are saying that yes, these works of "early" PC Demo days of a decade ago have transcended the amazing leaps they did to run and function on PCs of the time, and stand on their own. Obviously, you do not."
And as for the hilarious sentence "I never claimed that you paid Slashdot. Only that I wouldn't be surprised if you did. As clarified by my next reply, it's commentary on the state of this site, not accusation towards yourself."
Nope, that insults me. Telling me that by consorting with Slashdot (who have helped bring over 7,000 people to the Mind Candy DVD site in the last day) I'm automatically suspected of bribery, I don't care how you saw it in your mind, that's what came out.
But don't worry, I'll make sure the last line of this message is positive, so you don't feel like I'm being negative.
Trixter, you're very correct, it's one of the primary conflicts when a demo is doing something new or exciting with existing hardware, how much of it is "look at what's being accomplished here" versus "look how great it is". The sign of a solid demo is it does both; a number of Amiga demos hold that attraction for me personally, where I can still look at them and be impressed because I know what hardware they came from, but they also just absolutely rock.
To me, the example of Citizen Kane shows how an artistic piece stands on its own, but is even more amazing when you know all the stuff that went on behind the scenes. I won't fill the database with all this trivia about it, but you can show Citizen Kane to many people now and never tell them of Orson Welles' "Making Of" trivia and they'll enjoy the film.
I said you don't read messages properly, and that you shouldn't get this DVD and likely don't deserve it, if that wants to be classified as an insult.
Meanwhile, you basically implied that I (my name's on the story, right up there, first two words) paid Slashdot to put the story up because the story/work didn't stand on its own merits. That's an insult I find a few fathoms deeper.
Maybe there's some sort of Slashdot Payola system I'm not aware of. I'm sure the admins get accused of a stunning spectrum of crimes and misdemeanors, and their motives and personalities questioned constantly. But you drop that kind of accusation, you better back it up. It's obvious you can't, and it shines a light on anything else you say.
By the way, the DVD has a small featurette explaining the demoscene with interviews with a representative set of folks. You can't download that and run it on your 386 either. (Just wanted to mention so this post isn't completely devoid of information.)
It's like you didn't hear a word I said, and focused on the last line. Therefore, you are a human version of the comment 'tail -1'.
What's being said here, by me and by the work of the group who did the DVD, is that these demos DO transcend the medium for which they were on. A painting done 500 years ago could be easily reproduced so that you'd barely know it wasn't the same painting, using modern materials and methods. It would be quicker, too, considering how far they used to have to travel for just the right dyes, and the costs of making the right kinds of brushes. But as the centuries have passed, the amazing efforts to just have the materials ready to MAKE a great painting have fallen by the wayside except for a small percentage of scholars/viewers. What remains is what that artist was trying to say.... the "art" itself, so to speak.
Compressed by the same amount that all of computer history has been compressed, we are saying that yes, these works of "early" PC Demo days of a decade ago have transcended the amazing leaps they did to run and function on PCs of the time, and stand on their own. Obviously, you do not. You don't even listen. But there you have it, maybe I'll buy your copy for you.... and give it to a better suited person.
Well, as the person who sent the story to Slashdot, I can swear on whatever you think I need to swear on that there's no kickbacks for this posting of the MindCandy DVD.
This is answered elsewhere, but hey, the more answers the merrier:
What it comes down to, and what this DVD is for in the grand scheme of things, is a way to see some of the incredible demos of the past decade in a form and manner that's easily reproducable and dependable without dragging out old hardware. Fine, some people want to drag out the old hardware. That's why the original demos are on the mindcandy DVD site as well as at scene.org. Others, like yourself, buy into the newest gimgaws available for your specific machine and would rather view those than see these demos on DVD. Fine, excellent, it's not for you.
But the fact remains that myself, and many other people who heard about this project, have been amazed enough to not only buy copies, but evangelize the surrounding area into knowing about the project and buying it, to help the project leaders make back the money they dumped in (and it WAS thousands of dollars, and it WAS years of work).
Might as well not see those 1930s films on video, right? If you can't see them in the original theatre on the original film stock. Heck, get a match, save some time.
In a simple reply: They ARE available, MESS can NOT emulate all of these demos accurately, and the point of the DVD is to make it so people can see the demos without having to go through the basement or spend days on ebay to be able to view them. Not everyone wants to keep a 286 around in their apartment just in case they need to see an old demo. Emulators can only do so much.
Did they get permission to sell these movies of demos?
Yes, they did. That's why a couple are not on there. Some people didn't give permission. Most groups were very excited to be a part of this project, obviously.
Movies of demos suck, I want the originals.
Besides having copies on the Mind Candy site of all the demos, all of the demos exist in one way or another at scene.org. But be warned, a lot of the older ones won't work on your 2.5Ghz Windows XP box; that's why it was so difficult to get their hands on JUST the right hardware to get these demos in the first place. As time goes on, it will be more and more difficult, but now we have something to refer to. And man, is it tasty.
Here's some other questions people might have. I'll do my best to head them off:
What are you, Jason Scott, getting out of all this?
I am working on a Documentary about BBSes and run a site about 1980's BBSes and have a soft spot for anyone who dedicates so much time to bringing back computer history, as I'm doing myself. I know how much they spent in money on this (equipment, DVD pressing) and they went for tip-top quality in all of it, and I think this should be rewarded. Slashdot brings people to a site that might otherwise be overlooked.
What about the Amiga, C-64 and other machines?
I know they have plans to do those machines as well for the next in the series; that's why it's Volume 1. If this one sells well, they can afford to do another one. Therefore it's important that everyone who could want a DVD like this know about it. I know they're working on the technical issues of taking video output from these machines and making them look good.
Big deal, they hooked a VCR to a PC
No, that is not the case! When the site lightens up, and you read all they had to keep track of to make the demos look decent on a DVD, you will understand what a massive undertaking this is. Flicker, color-quality, even the problems of general radio interference across the video cables.... they had to handle all these problems, find solutions, and deal with them.
Who are these people?
If it means something to you, these folks are the driving forces behind the Hornet Archive and Mobygames. They care. They care a lot.
Here's a list of the demos that are on the disk, from their website (now slashdotted):
Side 1 - Transcendental Vistas
Wonder by Sunflower (1999) 604 by And/Sly/Synsun (2001) Kosmiset Avaruus Sienet by Haujobb (2001) Further by Moppi Productions (2000) Chrome by Damage (2000) Volatile by Addict (2000) Tesla by Sunflower (2000) Broadband by T-Rex (2000) Mikrostrange by Haujobb (2000) Moral Hard Candy by Blasphemy 1999) TE-2RB by TPOLM (1998) Le Petit Prince by Kolor (2001) Energia by Sunflower (2001) Gerbera by Moppi Productions (2001) Lapsus by Maturefurk (2000) Enlight the Surreal by Noice (2000) Experimental by Wipe (2000) Live Evil by Mandula (2000) The Nonstop Ibiza Experience by Orange (2000) Codename Chinadoll by Katastro.fi (1999) Art by Haujobb (2000) Kasparov by Elitegroup (1999)
1:42:05 Total Time
Side 2 - Kickin' It Oldschool
Second Reality by Future Crew (1993) Megademo by The Space Pigs (1990) Cronologia by Cascada (1991) Unreal by Future Crew (1992) Amnesia by Renaissance (1992) Panic by Future Crew (1992) Crystal Dream 2 by Triton (1993) Show by Majic 12 (1994) Verses by EMF (1994) Dope by Complex (1995) X14 by Orange (1995) Stars: Wonders of the World by Nooon (1995) Reve by Pulse (1995) Paimen by COMA (1996) Inside by CNCD (1996) Megablast by Orange (1996) 303 by Acme (1997) Saint by Halcyon & Da Jormas (1997) Square by Pulse (1997) Riprap by Exceed (1998)
....to post an incomplete, long forgotten URL to a site that hasn't gone ahead and added much in the way of content, when there are some truly excellent sites out there with really great and inspiring content, worked on by people who care.
Jason fuckface, you have a problem if I confront you with a 9mm pistol??? I would like to shoot one bullet through your brains. Perhaps I will do it. Watch out fucker!
Cool! Only here could I have my life threatened by an anonymous person for disagreeing about the impact of the release of source code upon a deceased programmer's legacy.
Hey! I could become the Alan Berg of Slashdot! I might get a "Your Rights Online" story for that!
I think you're among the only ones. Certainly one of those precious few minorities that Slashdot seems to encourage every once in a while.
Let's go over the facts, in case they escape you:
1. In the era of DOOM (First), Castle Wolfenstein 3D, Soundblaster cards being a novelty and 9600/14.4k modems being the standard, Apogee (working on a possible Castle Wolfenstein 3D II, but later changing the name and the approach) creates, via 4+ programmers and many others, a game called Rise of the Triad. (1994)
2. The game is sold, like any other game. It is somewhat overshadowed by ID's creations, and becomes an also-ran in the now-beginning First Person Shooter genre. Those of us who like the game a lot (and I'm one of them) think it's a fun time and enjoy it.
3. Years pass. Quake comes out and freaks everyone out at how cool it is. This causes a real gold rush of FPS, with literately dozens of titles making an appearance.
4. MORE years pass. Apogee is eventually bought out by 3D Realms, makers of (among other things) Duke Nukem, which is another "Doom Clone".
5. MORE years pass. Rise of The Triad (ROTT) to its friends is now 8 years old, a lifetime in an industry that doesn't normally support games past 6 months. The game has been sold on 3D Realms' site for years and years now (I bought a copy that way, and you can too) has garnered whatever it is likely to garner for the product, and is in danger of not even running on newer Windows OSs that are coming out. (I haven't tried it in XP).
6. So 3D Realms kindly offers to release the software's source code, while retaining rights (maybe they'll make a new version, who knows) and continuing to sell it for downloads.
Where is the injustice here? Are you saying that if a developer dies, the game shouldn't be sold? Maybe you also think a band's music shouldn't be sold if a member dies? Tough luck for the Beatles, Norvana, and a billion other bands.
Your thinking is faulty; but you fit right in here.
Uh, the game was owned by 3DRealms, not William Scarboro. Beyond that, they still own the game and sell it, they're just GPLing the source. You have a problem with that?
Remember that fast food place you worked at when you were a kid? They tore it down. Should they have destroyed your "life's work"?
Programming Mark Dochtermann, Jim Dose, Nolan Martin, William Scarboro
Graphics / 3D Programming Stephen A. Hornback, Chuck Jones, Tim Neveu, Susan Singer, James Storey
Level / Scenario Design Tom Hall, Joseph Selinske, Joe Siegler, Marianna Vayntrub
Music Lee Jackson, Robert Prince
Documentation Robert M. Atkins
Executive Producer George Broussard, Scott Miller
Director Tom Hall
Playtesting Mike Bartelt, Steven Blackburn, Neil Bonner, Glenn Brensinger, Douglas Brewer, David Butler, Daniel Creeron, Scott Darling, Jason Ewasiuk, Craig Hamilton, Ken Heckbert, Terry Herrin, Greg Hively, John Howard, Douglas Howell, Dennis Kurek, Hank Leukart, Jim Lietzan, Ken Mayer, Wayne Millard, Penny Plant, Brian Prinner, Jeff Rausch, Kelly Rogers, Neil Rubenking, Todd Rubin, Steven Salter, Chris White
Special Thanks To John Carmack, Gregor Punchatz, Ken Silverman, Pau Suet Ying
The release of the source code is dedicated to William Scarboro's memory, but it's not like the man singly-developed the game, and some group of people have pulled the source out of his frozen hands and given them for free, leaving his widow and children starving in a corner.
Rise of the Triad is over 8 years old, in an excellent game (still) but was the effort of many people, from a company that still sells it but wanted to let other people check out how it was done. Carmack does the same thing, god bless him.
For people who are concerned that I will never finish the film, I've created a page that hopefully addresses the concerns that people have. It might not satisfy everyone, but at the very least people will know that the issues are swimming somewhere in the back of my head.
By the way, I hope you don't think that an appearance on PBS represents the natural, meaningful end for a Documentary, with any other appearance not really representing completion or success.
Slashdot Mirror
I still read it, I appreciate it, I thank you for it.
- Jason Scott
BBS Documentary
Sorry, but I can't resist but point out that it's usually the case that you put on the tinfoil hat if you're paranoid (to keep out "their" radio waves) and take it off if you're trusting, unconcerned or otherwise "gullible" (in the opinion of the person with the tinfoil hat).
Of course, maybe you mean to take off the tinfoil hat so "they" can't find you in a crowd. Very sly.....
Well, until it's free, there's always textfiles.com.
Actually, a while ago I copied a lot of the Project Gutenberg library, along with some others, and created etext.textfiles.com.
In my experience, the reason a lot of people don't donate free time to transcription or other similar drudge work is because a lot of sites that encourage it steal it. Witness CDDB, and just wait to see how long before you pay for IMDB.
Well, not "ever" as it currently stands, but because they've extended the copyright several times in the past century to the point that it's pretty much beyond our lifetimes, and the Court has now said that such machinations are legal, we can expect never to see copyrights expire again.
Assumptively, the Supreme Court said "It's not unconstitutional for such a law to pass, and if you don't like it, go pass a different law." Which is entirely correct, we could always have legislation in the future to reverse this.... but don't hold your copy of Steamboat Willy at the duplicator anytime soon.
"these works ... stand on their own. Obviously, you do not." Sounds like an insult.
Read it again. The actual two sentences were "Compressed by the same amount that all of computer history has been compressed, we are saying that yes, these works of "early" PC Demo days of a decade ago have transcended the amazing leaps they did to run and function on PCs of the time, and stand on their own. Obviously, you do not."
And as for the hilarious sentence "I never claimed that you paid Slashdot. Only that I wouldn't be surprised if you did. As clarified by my next reply, it's commentary on the state of this site, not accusation towards yourself."
Nope, that insults me. Telling me that by consorting with Slashdot (who have helped bring over 7,000 people to the Mind Candy DVD site in the last day) I'm automatically suspected of bribery, I don't care how you saw it in your mind, that's what came out.
But don't worry, I'll make sure the last line of this message is positive, so you don't feel like I'm being negative.
Trixter, you're very correct, it's one of the primary conflicts when a demo is doing something new or exciting with existing hardware, how much of it is "look at what's being accomplished here" versus "look how great it is". The sign of a solid demo is it does both; a number of Amiga demos hold that attraction for me personally, where I can still look at them and be impressed because I know what hardware they came from, but they also just absolutely rock.
To me, the example of Citizen Kane shows how an artistic piece stands on its own, but is even more amazing when you know all the stuff that went on behind the scenes. I won't fill the database with all this trivia about it, but you can show Citizen Kane to many people now and never tell them of Orson Welles' "Making Of" trivia and they'll enjoy the film.
I said you don't read messages properly, and that you shouldn't get this DVD and likely don't deserve it, if that wants to be classified as an insult.
Meanwhile, you basically implied that I (my name's on the story, right up there, first two words) paid Slashdot to put the story up because the story/work didn't stand on its own merits. That's an insult I find a few fathoms deeper.
Maybe there's some sort of Slashdot Payola system I'm not aware of. I'm sure the admins get accused of a stunning spectrum of crimes and misdemeanors, and their motives and personalities questioned constantly. But you drop that kind of accusation, you better back it up. It's obvious you can't, and it shines a light on anything else you say.
By the way, the DVD has a small featurette explaining the demoscene with interviews with a representative set of folks. You can't download that and run it on your 386 either. (Just wanted to mention so this post isn't completely devoid of information.)
It's like you didn't hear a word I said, and focused on the last line. Therefore, you are a human version of the comment 'tail -1'.
What's being said here, by me and by the work of the group who did the DVD, is that these demos DO transcend the medium for which they were on. A painting done 500 years ago could be easily reproduced so that you'd barely know it wasn't the same painting, using modern materials and methods. It would be quicker, too, considering how far they used to have to travel for just the right dyes, and the costs of making the right kinds of brushes. But as the centuries have passed, the amazing efforts to just have the materials ready to MAKE a great painting have fallen by the wayside except for a small percentage of scholars/viewers. What remains is what that artist was trying to say.... the "art" itself, so to speak.
Compressed by the same amount that all of computer history has been compressed, we are saying that yes, these works of "early" PC Demo days of a decade ago have transcended the amazing leaps they did to run and function on PCs of the time, and stand on their own. Obviously, you do not. You don't even listen. But there you have it, maybe I'll buy your copy for you.... and give it to a better suited person.
Well, as the person who sent the story to Slashdot, I can swear on whatever you think I need to swear on that there's no kickbacks for this posting of the MindCandy DVD.
This is answered elsewhere, but hey, the more answers the merrier:
What it comes down to, and what this DVD is for in the grand scheme of things, is a way to see some of the incredible demos of the past decade in a form and manner that's easily reproducable and dependable without dragging out old hardware. Fine, some people want to drag out the old hardware. That's why the original demos are on the mindcandy DVD site as well as at scene.org. Others, like yourself, buy into the newest gimgaws available for your specific machine and would rather view those than see these demos on DVD. Fine, excellent, it's not for you.
But the fact remains that myself, and many other people who heard about this project, have been amazed enough to not only buy copies, but evangelize the surrounding area into knowing about the project and buying it, to help the project leaders make back the money they dumped in (and it WAS thousands of dollars, and it WAS years of work).
Might as well not see those 1930s films on video, right? If you can't see them in the original theatre on the original film stock. Heck, get a match, save some time.
Talk about abuse of karma...
You're right. I should have used that karma to feed a kitten. Although as people on fark will attest, I'm probably much better at killing kittens.
In a simple reply: They ARE available, MESS can NOT emulate all of these demos accurately, and the point of the DVD is to make it so people can see the demos without having to go through the basement or spend days on ebay to be able to view them. Not everyone wants to keep a 286 around in their apartment just in case they need to see an old demo. Emulators can only do so much.
Finally, here's some URLs for ordering the DVD:
Maz-Sound
Fusecon
and they have a Forum on the Fusecon site to post messages about them.
I've had this DVD for a couple weeks now and it hasn't left the player once.
Sorry, forgot a couple.
Did they get permission to sell these movies of demos?
Yes, they did. That's why a couple are not on there. Some people didn't give permission. Most groups were very excited to be a part of this project, obviously.
Movies of demos suck, I want the originals.
Besides having copies on the Mind Candy site of all the demos, all of the demos exist in one way or another at scene.org. But be warned, a lot of the older ones won't work on your 2.5Ghz Windows XP box; that's why it was so difficult to get their hands on JUST the right hardware to get these demos in the first place. As time goes on, it will be more and more difficult, but now we have something to refer to. And man, is it tasty.
Here's some other questions people might have. I'll do my best to head them off:
What are you, Jason Scott, getting out of all this?
I am working on a Documentary about BBSes and run a site about 1980's BBSes and have a soft spot for anyone who dedicates so much time to bringing back computer history, as I'm doing myself. I know how much they spent in money on this (equipment, DVD pressing) and they went for tip-top quality in all of it, and I think this should be rewarded. Slashdot brings people to a site that might otherwise be overlooked.
What about the Amiga, C-64 and other machines?
I know they have plans to do those machines as well for the next in the series; that's why it's Volume 1. If this one sells well, they can afford to do another one. Therefore it's important that everyone who could want a DVD like this know about it. I know they're working on the technical issues of taking video output from these machines and making them look good.
Big deal, they hooked a VCR to a PC
No, that is not the case! When the site lightens up, and you read all they had to keep track of to make the demos look decent on a DVD, you will understand what a massive undertaking this is. Flicker, color-quality, even the problems of general radio interference across the video cables.... they had to handle all these problems, find solutions, and deal with them.
Who are these people?
If it means something to you, these folks are the driving forces behind the Hornet Archive and Mobygames. They care. They care a lot.
Here's a list of the demos that are on the disk, from their website (now slashdotted):
Side 1 - Transcendental Vistas
Wonder by Sunflower (1999)
604 by And/Sly/Synsun (2001)
Kosmiset Avaruus Sienet by Haujobb (2001)
Further by Moppi Productions (2000)
Chrome by Damage (2000)
Volatile by Addict (2000)
Tesla by Sunflower (2000)
Broadband by T-Rex (2000)
Mikrostrange by Haujobb (2000)
Moral Hard Candy by Blasphemy 1999)
TE-2RB by TPOLM (1998)
Le Petit Prince by Kolor (2001)
Energia by Sunflower (2001)
Gerbera by Moppi Productions (2001)
Lapsus by Maturefurk (2000)
Enlight the Surreal by Noice (2000)
Experimental by Wipe (2000)
Live Evil by Mandula (2000)
The Nonstop Ibiza Experience by Orange (2000)
Codename Chinadoll by Katastro.fi (1999)
Art by Haujobb (2000)
Kasparov by Elitegroup (1999)
1:42:05 Total Time
Side 2 - Kickin' It Oldschool
Second Reality by Future Crew (1993)
Megademo by The Space Pigs (1990)
Cronologia by Cascada (1991)
Unreal by Future Crew (1992)
Amnesia by Renaissance (1992)
Panic by Future Crew (1992)
Crystal Dream 2 by Triton (1993)
Show by Majic 12 (1994)
Verses by EMF (1994)
Dope by Complex (1995)
X14 by Orange (1995)
Stars: Wonders of the World by Nooon (1995)
Reve by Pulse (1995)
Paimen by COMA (1996)
Inside by CNCD (1996)
Megablast by Orange (1996)
303 by Acme (1997)
Saint by Halcyon & Da Jormas (1997)
Square by Pulse (1997)
Riprap by Exceed (1998)
2:05:19 Total Time
Extras
Featurette: Demographics (2002)
4:39:00 Total disc time (approximate)
....to post an incomplete, long forgotten URL to a site that hasn't gone ahead and added much in the way of content, when there are some truly excellent sites out there with really great and inspiring content, worked on by people who care.
Yeah, let me throw some URL where my mouth is.
http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/
http://www.computer-museum.org/
http://www.homecomputer.de/
http://www.thelegacy.de/
http://www.mobygames.com/
And the list goes on, and on, and on.....
Jason fuckface, you have a problem if I confront you with a 9mm pistol??? I would like to shoot one bullet through your brains. Perhaps I will do it. Watch out fucker!
Cool! Only here could I have my life threatened by an anonymous person for disagreeing about the impact of the release of source code upon a deceased programmer's legacy.
Hey! I could become the Alan Berg of Slashdot! I might get a "Your Rights Online" story for that!
I think you're among the only ones. Certainly one of those precious few minorities that Slashdot seems to encourage every once in a while.
Let's go over the facts, in case they escape you:
1. In the era of DOOM (First), Castle Wolfenstein 3D, Soundblaster cards being a novelty and 9600/14.4k modems being the standard, Apogee (working on a possible Castle Wolfenstein 3D II, but later changing the name and the approach) creates, via 4+ programmers and many others, a game called Rise of the Triad. (1994)
2. The game is sold, like any other game. It is somewhat overshadowed by ID's creations, and becomes an also-ran in the now-beginning First Person Shooter genre. Those of us who like the game a lot (and I'm one of them) think it's a fun time and enjoy it.
3. Years pass. Quake comes out and freaks everyone out at how cool it is. This causes a real gold rush of FPS, with literately dozens of titles making an appearance.
4. MORE years pass. Apogee is eventually bought out by 3D Realms, makers of (among other things) Duke Nukem, which is another "Doom Clone".
5. MORE years pass. Rise of The Triad (ROTT) to its friends is now 8 years old, a lifetime in an industry that doesn't normally support games past 6 months. The game has been sold on 3D Realms' site for years and years now (I bought a copy that way, and you can too) has garnered whatever it is likely to garner for the product, and is in danger of not even running on newer Windows OSs that are coming out. (I haven't tried it in XP).
6. So 3D Realms kindly offers to release the software's source code, while retaining rights (maybe they'll make a new version, who knows) and continuing to sell it for downloads.
Where is the injustice here? Are you saying that if a developer dies, the game shouldn't be sold? Maybe you also think a band's music shouldn't be sold if a member dies? Tough luck for the Beatles, Norvana, and a billion other bands.
Your thinking is faulty; but you fit right in here.
Uh, the game was owned by 3DRealms, not William Scarboro. Beyond that, they still own the game and sell it, they're just GPLing the source. You have a problem with that?
Remember that fast food place you worked at when you were a kid? They tore it down. Should they have destroyed your "life's work"?
Credits for Rise of the Triad:
Programming
Mark Dochtermann, Jim Dose, Nolan Martin, William Scarboro
Graphics / 3D Programming
Stephen A. Hornback, Chuck Jones, Tim Neveu, Susan Singer, James Storey
Level / Scenario Design
Tom Hall, Joseph Selinske, Joe Siegler, Marianna Vayntrub
Music
Lee Jackson, Robert Prince
Documentation
Robert M. Atkins
Executive Producer
George Broussard, Scott Miller
Director
Tom Hall
Playtesting
Mike Bartelt, Steven Blackburn, Neil Bonner, Glenn Brensinger, Douglas Brewer, David Butler, Daniel Creeron, Scott Darling, Jason Ewasiuk, Craig Hamilton, Ken Heckbert, Terry Herrin, Greg Hively, John Howard, Douglas Howell, Dennis Kurek, Hank Leukart, Jim Lietzan, Ken Mayer, Wayne Millard, Penny Plant, Brian Prinner, Jeff Rausch, Kelly Rogers, Neil Rubenking, Todd Rubin, Steven Salter, Chris White
Special Thanks To
John Carmack, Gregor Punchatz, Ken Silverman, Pau Suet Ying
The release of the source code is dedicated to William Scarboro's memory, but it's not like the man singly-developed the game, and some group of people have pulled the source out of his frozen hands and given them for free, leaving his widow and children starving in a corner.
Rise of the Triad is over 8 years old, in an excellent game (still) but was the effort of many people, from a company that still sells it but wanted to let other people check out how it was done. Carmack does the same thing, god bless him.
So sit down.
The BBS Documentary is still chugging along at the usual place. Over 120 interviews so far!
I'm not listed on the BBS Links, but that's OK. I also maintain a historical BBS List and a few BBS-era textfiles.
"Linoleum Blownaparte"
"Heywood Jablome"
"Pikov Andropov"
"Marge N. O'Error"
"Chuck U. Farley"
"Hans Upperblauz"
And they need a good group name like "Hackers of Dark Chowder".
Your link has added probably 30-40 new BBS numbers or corrections to the list. Always appreciated.
The problem with making it a single textfile is that it tends to get a little big.
Oh, hey, while we're talking: Might as Well Mention the BBS Documentary Again.
For people who are concerned that I will never finish the film, I've created a page that hopefully addresses the concerns that people have. It might not satisfy everyone, but at the very least people will know that the issues are swimming somewhere in the back of my head.
Doom and Gloom: The Case Against the Documentary
By the way, I hope you don't think that an appearance on PBS represents the natural, meaningful end for a Documentary, with any other appearance not really representing completion or success.