Ah, finally someone gets it. In the US, it seems to me that freedom of speech is taken a little too serious. Belgian law considers freedom of speech to end where the freedom of fear (or any other freedom for that matter) ends for someone else - racism is one of those. Now, the problem with this racist podcast is that it is hard to fight since it was on a foreign server, which is why Belgian anti-racist law does not apply directly to it. So, justice had to take a little detour. It's a bit like nailing Al Capone for not paying taxes.
Although I do not really agree with the way that our government deals with this racist party in general, we have to keep in mind that racism is still a big social problem. The riots in France have shown us that in a painful way.
So, freedom of speech? Hell yes, but not at any cost.
What you are describing looks a lot like the Turing Test Setup. This test, defined by Alan Turing has been setup to determine the amount of intelligence of an AI system by determining how many people the bot could convince of being human itself.
Most of the posts above however ignore the essentials of AI, which are:
efficient searching in knowledge spaces
efficient knowledge representation
inference and learning techniques
application of both in AI systems
Up 'till now, there was only one system that could effectively learn without being fed new data. That system used its database for extrapolation of new knowledge (AM, D. Lenat). All other AI systems in use today (mostly expert sytems like Cyc, Mycin,...) use their database for inference only. They can only make up new conclusions by applying inference techniques on the (logic-)databases. But they cannot come up with new information. That is a critical problem in intelligent systems (also in Cyc):
If the knowledge grows, the database must grow to (problem of data storage)
How is the new knowledge being fed to the system (knowledge representation problem)
How do we efficiently search throug this database (search problem)
And most of all: how do we get to make it work fast??? Billions of rules to apply to a query makes hard work for determining the best rules for applying resolution (another search problem).
I think you are slightly underestimating the economical position of China. In a few decades (and this may hurt a bit to your patriottic American heart), the US will no more be the most mighty super power in the world. Watch my words....
<An important factor in Linux' cost is its <maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of <maintenance, work doable only by the <relatively few high-paid Linux <administrators that put themselves - of <course willingly - at a great place in the <market. Linux seems to be needing <maintenance continuously, to keep it from <breaking down.
You should try and read the howto's before getting to it....
<Add to this the cost of loss of data. <Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known <to lose data like a firehose spouts water <when the file system isn't unmounted <properly. Other unix file systems are much <more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. <An example is the FreeBSD file system, <which with soft updates enabled, <performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the <water, and doesn't have the negative <drawback of extreme data loss in case of a <system breakdown.
I have seen entire partitions disappear under windoze, not Linux
<blablabla...
<Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the <fact that crashes happen much more often on <Linux than on other unices. On other <unices, crashes usually are caused by <external sources like power outages. <Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and <nobody seems to know what causes them, <internally. Linux advocates try to hide <this fact by denying crashes ever happen. <Instead, they have frequent "hardware <problems".
Nope, no crashes here, and my box is running for months without ever having to reboot (not even after installing services, drivers,...). I never keep my windows 2000 running for more then 24 hrs. You know: memory leaks, masses of temp files,... just because it is 'windows'. By the way: windows doesn't even install on my linux box because it's such a bloatware bunch of crap. It runs Linux smoothly... and keeps me happy.
<The steep learning curve compared to about <any other operating system out there is a <major factor in Linux' cost. The system is <a mix of features from all kinds of unices, <but not one of them is implemented right. A <Linux user has to live with badly coded <tools which have low performance, mangle <data seemingly at random and are not in <line with their specification. On top of <that a lot of them spit out the most <childish and unprofessional messages, <indicating that they were created by <14-year olds with too much time, no talent <and a bad attitude.
Oh-my-god, I just HATE this stupid argument. Ok, I am talking servers here... Don't tell me you don't have to READ stuff to get a GOOD (sounds silly) windows server running. I bet you even have to read MORE to make such a display! I'm about to quit my email provider. Why? The are running on NT servers and have downtimes DAILY. They even managed to make it crash and stay down for six days!! If it's all so easy on windows, go and explain them !!!
<I could go on and on and on, but the <conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option <for any one who seeks a professional OS <with high performance, scalability, <stability, adherence to standards, etc.
Yeah, just keep going , you're actually a bit funny to me.
True but, like the Dutch article says:
The Kazaa network (not talking about the filtering server) does not rely on a central server for sharing files. This makes that even just shutting down Kazaa will be hard. So don't worry too much...
After all, if they shut down Kazaa tomorrow, there will be three others yesterday.
I thought we were talking about LEARNING how to program. The fact that Oberon in practice is unusable is irrelevant. Not all of the Math subjects I took at Highschool are of any use to me. Should we kick those subjects out then ?
I'm a student CS at the Antwerp University (Belgium) and the way OO programming has been brought to me, may inspire many other's...
I think, learning the OO prgramming concept in Java can be done, but is far from ideal. There are too many very relevant concepts in java that are kept hidden (especially pointers). The arguments of java being slow or ugly don't make any sense to me, but that's not what this discussion is about.
We have learned OO programming in... Oberon. Ik can hear many of you think Oberon, what the... ? Well Oberon is an educational language, developped by Wirth (yes, the one from Pascal) and which runs in a specially designed environment (also called Oberon) which can be run inside any OS (win-linux-unix) or stand-alone.
the idea of choosing Oberon as language to teach us how to program comes from many reasons:
The first is that (almost) no one knows Oberon, which makes every student start from the same level (from an Oberon point-of-view).
However, Oberon has many concepts from Pascal and Modula, it is far more modern. Like in C++/Java, objects can have methods and members, being private or public. There is possibility for data abstraction, encapsulation, inheritence...
It's simple syntax allows you to focus more on design and programming concepts, which can be quite important when running a programming course.
However, not all is in favor of Oberon. It's environment is special and may lead to friction with the user (especially in the beginning) and Oberon programs are not portable to other platforms than Oberon.
Anyway, I think that having learned the OO-Programming concepts in a neutral language like Oberon makes it easy to make the step to C++ and Java.
Philippe
Slashdot Mirror
Hmmm, I sense more EU fines coming up soon. It smells like a violation of some EU laws.
Ah, finally someone gets it. In the US, it seems to me that freedom of speech is taken a little too serious. Belgian law considers freedom of speech to end where the freedom of fear (or any other freedom for that matter) ends for someone else - racism is one of those. Now, the problem with this racist podcast is that it is hard to fight since it was on a foreign server, which is why Belgian anti-racist law does not apply directly to it. So, justice had to take a little detour. It's a bit like nailing Al Capone for not paying taxes.
Although I do not really agree with the way that our government deals with this racist party in general, we have to keep in mind that racism is still a big social problem. The riots in France have shown us that in a painful way.
So, freedom of speech? Hell yes, but not at any cost.
Actually, some HP scanners not allow one to copy Euro's based on this technolgy. So that's no news at all.
What you are describing looks a lot like the Turing Test Setup. This test, defined by Alan Turing has been setup to determine the amount of intelligence of an AI system by determining how many people the bot could convince of being human itself.
Most of the posts above however ignore the essentials of AI, which are :
Up 'till now, there was only one system that could effectively learn without being fed new data. That system used its database for extrapolation of new knowledge (AM, D. Lenat). All other AI systems in use today (mostly expert sytems like Cyc, Mycin, ...) use their database for inference only. They can only make up new conclusions by applying inference techniques on the (logic-)databases. But they cannot come up with new information. That is a critical problem in intelligent systems (also in Cyc):
And most of all: how do we get to make it work fast??? Billions of rules to apply to a query makes hard work for determining the best rules for applying resolution (another search problem).
There is more to AI than most people think ...
I think you are slightly underestimating the economical position of China. In a few decades (and this may hurt a bit to your patriottic American heart), the US will no more be the most mighty super power in the world. Watch my words ....
<An important factor in Linux' cost is its
<maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of
<maintenance, work doable only by the
<relatively few high-paid Linux
<administrators that put themselves - of
<course willingly - at a great place in the
<market. Linux seems to be needing
<maintenance continuously, to keep it from
<breaking down.
You should try and read the howto's before getting to it
<Add to this the cost of loss of data.
<Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known
<to lose data like a firehose spouts water
<when the file system isn't unmounted
<properly. Other unix file systems are much
<more tolerant towards unexpected crashes.
<An example is the FreeBSD file system,
<which with soft updates enabled,
<performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the
<water, and doesn't have the negative
<drawback of extreme data loss in case of a
<system breakdown.
I have seen entire partitions disappear under windoze, not Linux
<blablabla...
<Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the
<fact that crashes happen much more often on
<Linux than on other unices. On other
<unices, crashes usually are caused by
<external sources like power outages.
<Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and
<nobody seems to know what causes them,
<internally. Linux advocates try to hide
<this fact by denying crashes ever happen.
<Instead, they have frequent "hardware
<problems".
Nope, no crashes here, and my box is running for months without ever having to reboot (not even after installing services, drivers,
<The steep learning curve compared to about
<any other operating system out there is a
<major factor in Linux' cost. The system is
<a mix of features from all kinds of unices,
<but not one of them is implemented right. A
<Linux user has to live with badly coded
<tools which have low performance, mangle
<data seemingly at random and are not in
<line with their specification. On top of
<that a lot of them spit out the most
<childish and unprofessional messages,
<indicating that they were created by
<14-year olds with too much time, no talent
<and a bad attitude.
Oh-my-god, I just HATE this stupid argument. Ok, I am talking servers here
<I could go on and on and on, but the
<conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option
<for any one who seeks a professional OS
<with high performance, scalability,
<stability, adherence to standards, etc.
Yeah, just keep going , you're actually a bit funny to me.
I'm sorry but the scenario you describe here WILL NOT HAPPEN. I know, because I've tested it. I dialog box (open-save) will ALWAYS appear ...
True but, like the Dutch article says: The Kazaa network (not talking about the filtering server) does not rely on a central server for sharing files. This makes that even just shutting down Kazaa will be hard. So don't worry too much ...
After all, if they shut down Kazaa tomorrow, there will be three others yesterday.
I thought we were talking about LEARNING how to program. The fact that Oberon in practice is unusable is irrelevant. Not all of the Math subjects I took at Highschool are of any use to me. Should we kick those subjects out then ?
I'm a student CS at the Antwerp University (Belgium) and the way OO programming has been brought to me, may inspire many other's ...
I think, learning the OO prgramming concept in Java can be done, but is far from ideal. There are too many very relevant concepts in java that are kept hidden (especially pointers). The arguments of java being slow or ugly don't make any sense to me, but that's not what this discussion is about.
We have learned OO programming in ... Oberon. Ik can hear many of you think Oberon, what the ... ? Well Oberon is an educational language, developped by Wirth (yes, the one from Pascal) and which runs in a specially designed environment (also called Oberon) which can be run inside any OS (win-linux-unix) or stand-alone.
the idea of choosing Oberon as language to teach us how to program comes from many reasons:
However, not all is in favor of Oberon. It's environment is special and may lead to friction with the user (especially in the beginning) and Oberon programs are not portable to other platforms than Oberon.
Anyway, I think that having learned the OO-Programming concepts in a neutral language like Oberon makes it easy to make the step to C++ and Java. Philippe