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U.S. Penalizes Ukraine for Abetting 'Piracy'
The Politech mailing list has a note and follow-up on new trade restrictions levied against Ukraine, since they haven't complied with the U.S.'s demand for 'an
optical media licensing regime.' John Gilmore's response puts the issue in perspective. Update: 01/03 23:08 GMT by M : The RIAA has a press release about the trade penalties and response to Gilmore.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
I'd like to see the U.S. implement something like this before they go shoving it down other people's throats.
If don't want something here in America, why should we want it for countries abroad?
Why aren't we told when editors moderate our posts?
Shouldn't the government be concerned about things other than piracy in these times? How is putting trade restrictions on the Ukraine going to help protect people from terrorism? It seems to be YAWT$ (Yet Another Waste of Tax Dollars)
D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
The US wants every replicating machine to put a tracking number on CDs showing what machine made it.
I don't see why a bootlegger couldn't just put a fake number anyway.
Will requiring some number to be added to CDs (not even a serialized number, just a number) really do anything? I don't see why it would.
The US had requested that the Ukraine implement the "optical media licensing regime" that would prevent piracy of things like DVDs. Ukraine didnt comply, so the US levied a tariff on important things like oil, shoes, and paper imported from the Ukraine to put pressure on the Ukraine to implement that "optical media licensing regime"
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
The US wants the Ukraine to help stop piracy of software, music, etc. That certainly seems reasonable to me.
It also seems reasonable to me that the Ukraine deals with it within the scopes of their law. The Ukraine may or may not have done this, I have no clue of law outside of the US. So why are we getting so upset about this?
Gilmore mentions that coding thing that they want to use with optical media. Granted I don't understand it, but if it's really as bad as he says it is, the coding idea will never fly. People will turn further towards piracy, and EVENTUALLY the industries will give up on the idea. Of course, we said that about copy-protection, and the RIAA is getting more and more worked up on that.
So again, what's the real issue here? Is it the overreaching of the RIAA to protect their works (that I'm not seeing anything TOO unreasonable, just little bit of), or the Ukrainians flying the bird at the RIAA?
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
Sayeth Gilmore...
Next thing we'll have telephone answering machines recording what phone numbers people are calling from....video libraries recording who
borrowed each book and when.....Internet ads that track and record who saw them...hotel room doors that record every time each person goes in or out...cellphones that report every move we make to the authorities...tollbooths that record every car that goes through them... guards in every airport demanding to see 'our papers' before we are permitted to travel in our own country...
Hmmm... Caller ID machines, Doubleclick.net, and Electronic, DB controlled locks at hotels and Post 9-11 'random checks' at airports.
Gilmore's being sarcastic, isn't he?
Remember that the U.S. stoped being 'Of the people, for the people a long time ago'. It's been 'Of the corporate interest for the corporate intrest for quite a while... at least since the Vietnam War, (The Johnsons had a significant stake in Bell Helicopter, which profited outrageously from the war) and probably before, but I'm not a good enough history student to tell you how far back.
I know a 'Sherman Act' would sure as hell never make it out of committee in today's congress.
Well, when it gets too repressive, now I know where I can go. They speak Russian in the Ukraine, right?
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
Is this just another example of the All Powerful United States flexing its mighty iron fist around smaller countries that have almost no means by which to fight back?
Or, is this a legitimate action? Why not protect people who work hard to make their intellectual products? Does information really want to be free, and, if it does, should it be? Who is to decide?
I often find myself torn between these two schools of thought, as I believe that the IP could be integral to the lives of those who do not have the resources to pay for it, but, then again, does that justify the essential theft of such IP? Chairity theft, perhaps?
It's all very complex. Any opinions? I'd hate it if the US hurt more innocent people, only because of something as seemingly insignificant as IP law.
Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains.
It seems as if the article has been slashdotted already. From what I get from the article blurb, and the reasoning from the US gummint's site, it looks as if the lobbyist bitch because the Ukraine won't protect IP (read: Arrest people like Dimitry Skyarlov for no reason). So what do we do? Don't let them trade with the Ukraine! I don't know whether that's to shut up the IP mongrels in the US, or punish the Ukraine. If it's to shut the IP mongrels up, it's a good thing. If it's meant to punish another country because it has different views and values of what is correct than our government is, then it is an outrage! As soon as I can view this article, I'll decide what to do. I will probably be writing my representatives.
"Reader, in case you didn't know, every color Xerox machine and color laser printer prints the serial number of the machine on every page they produce, covertly hidden in the output, under a long-standing private "arrangement" with the US Treasury Department. I have been unable to confirm whether this is also true of black-and-white xerox machines."
I'm as paranoid as the next PGP-using, hard-drive encrypting, tin-foil-hat-wearing guy. BUT... I have a really hard time buying this, and I cold not locate any creditble documentation on Google.
Anyone have any good links?
Method of processing duck feet
So your argument is that no one else in the U.S. government, besides military personel, should do their jobs until "the war on terror" is over?
That's ridicules! So the police should stop chasing thieves and rapists until all the murderers are caught? Every one that needs to be doing something about the war is doing it, all the rest have their jobs to do, too.
I don't agree with this policy, but I don't like using the terrorist attack to be a scape-goat for everything else, either.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
If they really wanted to attack copyright violation, they're take action against other, generally eastern, countries. But, no, the trade links there are too valuable so instead they've taken this token and paper tiger-esque action against a non-major country (as far as copyright violation is concerned).
Skipping to the bottom, we see the phrase "...in short, we'll be living in a POLICE STATE."
In short, that's the sign that you can pretty much disregard anything he says. His tin foil is strapped too tightly to his head.
Why am I not suprised that Michael thinks this guy's ravings are "putting things in perspective"? Yeah, that's a nice, unbiased analysis of the pros and cons of balancing the rights of the music industry with fair use rights.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
And here we (USA) go, getting right back into the swing of things, just like pre 9/11/01.
I find it fascinating that people like the Bush family can't figure out why America is globally hated.
"Sorry, you are not allowed to have strong encryption, supercomputers, nuclear weapons, shoes, food, oil, etc. Why? Because we are the USA, and we said so........"
(...a few years later...)
"Boo-hoo....I don't understand why these people are so mad at us...I don't understand why they would blow up our landmarks..."
"A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn't have an air force." -William Blum
Isn't is ironic that the one tactic that drew the American colonies to revolt against England, America reuses again and again to gain leverage over countries dependent on American trade?
The only thing that this will cause is Ukraine products being shipped somewhere else. This doesn't sound too good, since the former Soviet Union prevented OPEC from cutting production on oil, thereby giving us low gas prices ($.99 where i live)just one month ago!
Hope this doesn't mean that my gas prices will go up to subsidise software companies' "right to innovate"
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
We Love it!
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
Funny that we'll impose terriffs against the Ukraine at the whim of the RIAA to protect the profits of Time Warner, but we won't lift a finger against China in the trade department even when they go around torturing and shooting political dissidents.
I guess it shows what the U.S. is about, eh?
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
Does anyone have any facts on what type of effects on countries these types of actions have? How much money will this cost Ukraine, how many jobs will be lost in Ukraine. When people lose their jobs they obviously don't make money, and in some areas I can see this leading to starvation. Could the U.S. governments(or rather its lobbiest's demmands) now be responsible for the starvation and possible death of Ukranian workers, only so that they will put tiny little ID markings on their CD media?!
-sonicsft
Before I modded you off-topic I thought about how this post is unrelated to the article at hand. Thanks, though!
But you know, the Ukrainians could throw those out, and that could help.
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Phonographic Industry, the international version of the RIAA.
Its chair, Hilkari Rosenski, was quoted as saying "We ownz j00, Ukraine!"
Which reminds me, where's a good Yo Momma, Osama game for Hillary Rosen when you really need one? You can throw burnt CD-Rs at her while she tries to stamp your forehead with a fiery DCMA brand.
I know some people might say I'm overreacting, but this honestly scares me. Over the course of this week, we've given full trade access to China, despite the fact that it is a communist nation of the worst kind that openly hunts, tortures, and kills people for belonging to a religion that isn't sanctioned by the government or coming anywhere near defying the government's will, and we've punished Ukraine for abetting piracy.
For Americans, we are now living under a government that cares far more about the profits of groups like the RIAA and MPAA than it does about human lives and our country's base freedoms. This week, it has rewarded one country for cruelty, torture, murder, and oppression, while punishing another for having a potential small effect on industry groups that make large contributions to political campaigns. The DMCA is a stupid and dangerous peace of legislation, and the SSSCA might fully qualify as evil... but these trade decisions belong to a whole new level of sick that nothing else on Slashdot has ever brought up.
The most powerful government in the world openly caring more about profits than about human lives... welcome to the world of several of the dystopian future sci-fi novels you've read.
Well, now. The US is attempting to destablize a country. Or so it seems. Over what? Over some gibberish term? Over outdated copyright laws? The Ukraine is a nation of farming (last time I checked, could be different now), and this seems like a move to incite revolts and millitary governments. I wish we would wake up and smell the international coffee, which isn't "The Government Is Subservent To Corporations" Blend anymore. Please, for the love of god, don't destroy another country over something stupid.
Everything is mainstream now.
It is not "The Ukraine". It is "Ukraine", damn it. "The France"? "The Russia"?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
If you don't like how we play, leave our play ground, or stay and pay up! You're just jealous because you want to live in a country where the country can kick anyone's *ss.
Do companies operating under one countries legal structure gain the same amount of protection when operating (or having their goods sold) in another country?
I find an interesting correlation here between "lassaie faire" business practices and the anti-corporation/IP movement. The movement wants corporations to recieve no help from the government for their business practices (IP, relief from economic hardship, etc), which are essentially leftist ideals. However, the fairly right ideal of lassaise faire essentially espouses the same thing, no? By all means correct me if I'm off base here.
(btw: sorry for the poli-labeling, but it helps to illustrate the constrasts in my point.)
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
"[Summary: In response to the Ukraine government's "failure to enact an
optical media licensing regime that would preclude the piracy of such
products," the U.S. government has levied 100 percent tariffs on
Ukraine exports such as fuel oil, sneakers, paper, and diamonds. --Declan]"
Do we actually BUY that much stuff from them? It seems most of these exports can find ready markets elsewhere. It seems the loss in trade is greater than any piracy could be. Any comments?
Just the same as those fools that bash Microsoft about putting piracy protection in XP and Office. They are simply trying to prevent illegal trafficking of their products. I say, "Go USA!"
The fools that bash piracy prevention are the same reason piracy prevention had to be enacted in the first place.
"The schemes were invented by IFPI, the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry, the international version of the RIAA. " I pity the IFPI agent that has to go into Asia and slap people on the wrist for pirating CDs that aren't sold out there anyway.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
Massive loss of privacy != POLICE STATE.
In police states they throw you in jail for political speech, shoot you randomly, whip you with a rattan cane, cut off your hands, etc, usually in a highly arbitrary fashion. This is NOT what is happening here. Claiming that it is severely weakens your case.
sulli
RTFJ.
It becomes a matter of disrespect for national self rule. Also it is a matter of foreign policy being dictated by greed of business interests, morte than anything else.
I somehow like the old system where there always was a place on the planet that was outside the reach of the grasping hand of your local government. This is starting to go away now. Not yet, but soon.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
For whatever reason, your statement just reminded me of good ol' Monty Python...
"I'm not dead yet."
"I'll get better."
(mumble mumble) *THUMP*
Let us not have this happen to us.
We don't need no Net Explorer We don't need no Thought control
haha crazy yankee
"where are we going, and why am I in a handbasket"
> There is a similar tracking requirement imposed on CD recorders (by
:-)
> the patent licenses issued by Philips). It requires that each CD
> burner record on the CD the serial number of the recorder, so that
> every burned CD-R can be traced back to which individual CD-burner
> recorded it.
Now _this_ was news to me. I'd like to see this proven or debunked. Is this software driven, or done by drives' firmware when a burn is started? Is there any way to disable this?
I don't mind my drive containing an electronic copy of its serial number for the purposes of identifying an individual unit with the manufacturer if I happen to need service.
I sure as hell mind if my drive is disclosing that information without my knowledge or consent!
As an example: John Doe works in a government agency, and notices some truly heinous and illegal activities going on with regards of that agency towards citizens of that government. John wants to blow the whistle, but he isn't stupid either. He anonymizes the information as best he can, cites several sources within the agency for the information in question, and writes it to a series of 5 CD-R's that he then sends to major newspaper editors in the hopes that they'll print it. CD-R's are the write-once/read-many diskette of the day, after all, and you don't have to worry about accidental magnetic erasure, so John thought he was being smart.
The story gets printed, there's a huge public outcry, the agency gets investigated, and this goes all the way to charges being laid and a lot of very powerful people being made _very_ uncomfortable, and quietly swearing to find the mole and give unto him a share of the misery that they are going through.
Fine, it's fictional, it probably has holes in it, and I've probably not drafted the perfect hypothetical scenario, but the basic gist of it is there.
There's a lot of cases where accidental disclosure of any information that would allow the source to be accurately identified is a _bad_ thing. Admittedly in some cases it can be a good thing, but I'm leery of making it _too_ easy.
Is there any way to prevent this little function from working correctly?
1. Change the electronic serial number of the drive?
2. Disable the routine that spits out a serial number?
3. Disable the routine that writes the serial number to the drive?
Rom microcode disassembly anyone?
Ukraine has it worse with computers than does Russia. And back in Russia things are really bad with computers. Software piracy is not as big an issue in Ukraine because well... not too many people own computers, and those that do probably own old ones.
Not saying that piracy isn't wrong but come on! Ukraine? That's just rediculous!
------
Sig
Stop posting lameass "boy this sucks" complaints on Slashdot, and, if you don't like this, complain. Write your congressmen. Write your senator. Write the president. Heck, in the accouncement, there are three numbers you can call...
Kira Alvarez, Office of Services, Investment and Intellectual Property, Office of the United States Trade Representative (202) 395-6864
David Birdsey, Office of European Affairs, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3320
William Busis, Office of the General Counsel, Office of the United States Trade Representative, (202) 395-3150
(Me, I'd like to see some unbiased reports on this thing before making a decision, as neither Politech nor the RIAA seem like the best sources of information for something like this. But there's none of that being posted here, just loads of "me too!" posts. If you're certain its wrong, get off your "trying to be geeky cool" ass and do something...)
Offtopic my ass.
To all the people griping along the lines of "It is so horrible for us to do this when we don't do the same to China/India/Russia..."
If you really want to see the government do the right thing, call or write the politicians who did THIS, as well as their buddies, and commend them. Let them realize that the American people will support them when they do the right thing against smaller countries, and maybe they will start showing the courage to try pulling the stops against other nations guilty of human rights violations, which piss us off but do not hurt us economically. If all the politicians ever hear from people is "This sucks, these guys only do this to satisfy company X.," they sure as hell won't be willing to do something nasty just to protect the rights of some shmucks that they never deal with anyway.
Why don't we just send the Navy like we did with those Spanish pricks around 1900. The Barbory Pirates or some shit like that.
Oh, you mean copying software?
I'm all for America, I love being an American, but our country does some really dumb things sometimes. (DMCA, Social Security, just to name two)
federal register: january 2, 2002 volume 67, number 1
notices
page 120 121
from the federal register online via gpo access wais.access.gpo.gov
docid:fr02ja02 131
office of the united states trade representative
docket no. 301 121
determination of action to increase duties on certain products of
ukraine pursuant to section 301 b : intellectual property laws and
practices of the government of ukraine
agency: office of the united states trade representative.
action: notice
summary: the united states trade representative trade representative
has determined that appropriate action to obtain the elimination of the
acts, policies, and practices of the government of ukraine that result
in the inadequate protection of intellectual property rights includes
the imposition of prohibitive duties on the annexed list of ukrainian
products.
effective dates: a 100 percent ad valorem rate of duty is effective
with respect to the articles of ukraine described in the annex to this
notice that are entered, or withdrawn from warehouse, for consumption
on or after january 23, 2002. in addition, any merchandise subject to
this determination that is admitted to u.s. foreign trade zones on or
after january 23, 2002 must be admitted as "privileged foreign
status".
for further information contact: kira alvarez, office of services,
investment and intellectual property, office of the united states trade
representative 202 395 6864; david birdsey, office of european
affairs, office of the united states trade representative, 202 395
3320; or william busis, office of the general counsel, office of the
united states trade representative, 202 395 3150. for questions
concerning product classification, please contact the general
classification branch, office of regulations and rulings, u.s. customs
service, 202 927 2388, and for questions concerning entries, please
contact yvonne tomenga, program officer, office of trade compliance,
u.s. customs service, 202 927 0133.
supplementary information: in a notice published on april 6, 2001 66
fr 18,346 , the office of the united states trade representative
"ustr" announced the initiation of an investigation under sections
301 to 309 of the trade act of 1974, as amended the trade act ,
regarding the government of ukraine's intellectual property protection
laws and practices, including the government of ukraine's failure to
use existing law enforcement authority to stop the ongoing unauthorized
production of optical media products and failure to enact an optical
media licensing regime that would preclude the piracy of such products.
see 66 fr 18,346 april 6, 2001 . in a notice published on august 10,
2001, ustr announced that the trade representative had determined that
these acts, policies, and practices of ukraine with respect to the
protection of intellectual property rights are unreasonable and burden
or restrict united states commerce and are thus actionable under
section 301 b of the trade act. see 66 fr 42,246 aug. 10, 2001 . the
notice also announced that the trade representative had determined that
appropriate action to obtain the elimination of such acts, policies,
and practices included the suspension of duty free treatment accorded
to products of ukraine under the generalized system of preferences.
the august 10, 2001 notice announced that further action might
include the imposition of prohibitive duties on products of ukraine to
be drawn from a preliminary product list. ustr invited interested
persons to submit written comments and to participate in a public
hearing on september 11, 2001. because the development of the final
product list involved complex and complicated issues that required
additional time, the trade representative determined under section
304 a 3 b of the trade act to extend the investigation by 3 months,
or until december 12, 2001. the public hearing was postponed and held
on september 25, 2001. see 66 fr 48,898 sep. 24, 2001 .
on december 11, 2001, the trade representative determined under
section 304 a 1 b of the trade act that appropriate action under
section 301 b , in addition to the prior suspension of gsp benefits,
included the imposition of 100 percent ad valorem duties on ukrainian
products with an annual trade value of approximately $75 million. the
level of sanctions is based on the level of the burden or restriction
on u.s. commerce resulting from ukraine's inadequate protection of u.s.
intellectual property rights.
the ukrainian parliament was scheduled to vote on an optical disc
licensing odl law on december 20, 2001, and the government of ukraine
assured in writing that it would make best efforts to ensure passage of
the law. in light of these developments, the trade representative
determined under section 305 a 2 a of the trade act that substantial
progress was being made and that a delay was necessary or desirable to
obtain a satisfactory
page 121
solution, and postponed implementation of the action until december 20,
2001.
on december 20, 2001, however, the ukrainian parliament voted down
the odl law. consequently, on that same day the trade representative
announced that he was imposing prohibitive duties on ukrainian products
with an annual trade value of approximately $75 million, and announced
the final product list on the following day.
imposition of prohibitive duties
the trade representative has determined that appropriate action
under section 301 b of the trade act is to impose a 100% ad valorem
rate of duty on the articles of ukraine described in the annex to this
notice, effective with respect to goods entered, or withdrawn from
warehouse, for consumption on or after january 23, 2002. accordingly,
effective january 23, 2002, the harmonized tariff schedule of the
united states hts is hereby modified in accordance with the annex to
this notice. in addition, any merchandise subject to this determination
that is admitted to u.s. foreign trade zones on or after january 23,
2002 must be admitted as "privileged foreign status" as defined in 19
cfr 146.41.
the scope of this action under section 301 is governed by the hts
nomenclature for the preexisting hts subheadings identified in
parentheses for each of the new chapter 99 subheadings in the annex to
this notice. the verbal product descriptions for the new chapter 99
subheadings in the annex are not definitive. issues regarding the
classification of particular products would be decided by the u.s.
customs service under its usual rules and procedures for product
classification.
william l. busis,
chairman, section 301 committee.
annex
the harmonized tariff schedule of the united states hts is
modified by adding in numerical sequence the following superior text
and subheadings to subchapter iii of chapter 99 to the hts. the
subheadings and superior text are set forth in columnar format, and
material in such columns is inserted in the columns of the hts
designated "heading/subheading", "article description", and
"rates of duty 1 general", respectively.
As a Canadian citizen, I am fully used to taking it up the ass (I can see the Troll moderation already).
No, really. We Canadians are taxed around 55% of our total income. Our own government (my province anyways) allows companies the right to a monopoly in areas like Home/Auto Insurance, Transportation, local Telco etc... and even worse, grants those companies the right to levy citizens, even if those citizens don't use the service provided by the company (eg. Bus tax on Auto-Insurance).
I've always said that our governemt could not get away with, or even propose, the things they do here in any other country. The people wouldn't stand for it.
What I want to know, is what Americans do when their government does something that obviously by the replies to this post, the people don't agree with. Do you guys just sit by and bitch about it like us Canadians?
I've come to accept that nothing I do or say will change the vast scheme of the big-business take over in the world. I'm not rich enough to have a voice. I've written letters, petitioned my local office, even protested, nothing changes.
So I ask in this case of the world's self-proclaimed big-brother pushing around yet another perfectly content country. What are American Citizens going to do about it?
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
How about this: We'll stop pushing our IP laws and the like on everyone else the moment everyone else stops whining and crying for help/economic aid/military aid/etc. every time you have a flood/drought/revolution/crisis.
Deal?
The fact is that more and more the US is losing the manufacturing jobs that for more than a century have been it's backbone causing it to become the economic superpower it is. Now that many of these jobs are leaving and they must now on white collar jobs to support themselves, by far the most lucrative of these are the computer industry. Wether it is fair or not the fact is that the US is trying to scrap up more cash in a struggling economy by pushing laws that it is really only in the US's interest to enforce.
I stole this Sig
Don't wish the ring onto the finger of the E.U, lest it become like the dark US itself.
Ask yourself this... did Ukraine's refusal to agree to these standards come from principled opposition to the suppression of free speech by multinational corporations... or from internal pressure by Ukraine's homegrown media piracy industry?
I suspect the latter. Which sucks, because it's exactly what the corporate thieves are saying, and i'm not used to them telling the truth about anything.
Either way, ordinary Ukrainians lose, not to mention Americans.
Hand me that airplane glue and I'll tell you another story.
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
You'd think things like softwood lumber, elections in El Salvador, or CD copying were straightforward issues, right? Everyone talks about governments as though they're sane, rational individuals. But, things are never what they seem. The power game is the biggest game. Hence, Unocal will be piping oil through Afghanistan, and GW Bush will continue doing business with the Bin Ladens of the world....
. ht m
http://www.stratfor.com/home/giu/archive/122601
But it DOES suck!
-
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Before I offend anyone I just want to make clear that this truly is meant as a question and not an accusation.
Disclaimer stated, are the citizens of a country considered responsable for the country's actions?
Specifically should these sanctions be considered the fault of the average american who chooses not to prevent their own government from taking such actions?
I see lots of people complaining about America no longer being for the people, instead for corporations. Does anyone else out there wonder if these same people have done even so much as to write a letter to their representatives making these decisions?
Just some questions. Any one else have any thoughts?
You have to remember that it hasn't been that long since people in the Ukraine could be locked up, beaten, exiled, or even killed for things they said or wrote.
It's hard to imagine life under those conditions when you grew up somewhere where you can say practically anything you want without repercussions. But don't let your naivete cause you to disregard the opinions of those who have been there and back, because they can help us make sure we never go there with our government. Erosion of your civil rights is a slow, piecemeal process. It doesn't happen overnight, and that's why it has to be fought every step of the way. Otherwise you look up one day wondering how we fell so far without anyone doing anything to stop it.
Well, this kind of things suddenly become a horror to the US /.ers, just because the case has something to do with CDs, copyright, "piracy", RIAA, ... which are things that /.ers care most.
/.ers.
However, the US government has been using this kind of economic imperialism tactics in almost every domain and industry to bully other countries, big and small (not that everything always works the way the US government want to, though). Unfortunately, a lot of those are not interesting to the typical
Well, get out of the US, talk to the honest people who are trying to do business with the US (which shout out loud on every roof that they are pro-free-trade, human right protector and freedom figther), and you will get really nasty horror stories.
Maybe next time, you will think twice before electing (or letting the court appoint) a president. Or maybe you will get involved more too. And maybe, some days, the world might be better too.
since they haven't complied with the U.S.'s demand for 'an optical media licensing regime.'
I wonder how our USian friends would react to a demand that they create/alter some legislation to suit the needs of some non-US multinational? I guess things like national sovereignty only apply to superpowers, and the industries they represent.
And why is it that when the it is decided that some sort of multi-lateral standard is required, why is the US standard is the one that almost certainly adopted?
*** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
However, we do need to do something rather than getting all worked up about it on /. and calling GWB names. Call/email/write your congressman. Not that it would work that much. But if everyone on /. did that instead of whining, it could probably make a dent.
Jack Valenti and the MPAA are to technology as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone
While I'm at it, I should call my congressman and senators
even though I don't know they are.
Your sarcasm made me laugh out loud. Thank you.
Those within these corporations remind me of school bullies who tease anyone who dares to tell their parents, yet as soon as their classmates gang up on them they are the first to go crying to mommy.
I'm all down with that,
There should be some type of effort to reverse engineer some of the popular CD-RW type of drives and disable this "feature." If it's not explicitly illegal, let's start the effort.
The gov. has gotten away with these bully-boy tactics for some time. There are a lot of cases where something is not illegal, just "strongly" discouraged (read businesses are rewarded for compliance and punished for breaking ranks). The only way to stop this is to check these types of moves instance for instance.
You have the right idea, the voice of the people should be heard, but the wrong political system. The U.S. has long since been bought by corporations, with only their propaganda machines promising that the will of the people count any more.
Including it's own @$$.
I find this rather amusing. Wouldn't the logical solution to this problem be better security features in the currency?
Seriously, if colour copiers are that good, what's to stop somebody from just stealing one, or buying one with cash (and false ID if required)?
It's actually pretty nifty what security features the new Euro has, I bet the U.S. treasury could adopt some of those while still keeping the classic Slashdot theme for American dollars.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
You will suck onto my penis and fucking like it, you camel-fucking, wife-beating terrorist pig!
No need to repeat the quote or the googled links. What I want to see is a solid piece of proof that tracking codes are built into color copiers.
Then again, I suppose it is pointless to ask for such proof (further blurring the issue) since this is the internet and someone will likely fire up PhotoShop and make a few images as a joke.
------
Today's Top Deals
So where can I buy a "Made in the Ukraine" CDRW?
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
I lived in Kiev, Ukraine for a year (95-96). Piracy of music and software was/is common and not considered unethical by the populace. There are laws against it, but they aren't enforced.
While I am against market control to the extent that industry is trying with DVD's (region encoding controlling which discs you can play and from where you can purchase them), I do believe that protection of intellectual property is required to provide a more stable environment in which to do business. What is going on in Ukraine, and other countries such as Russia, China and the rest of Asia, is directly damaging to America's interests. We are providing the capital for the software development, and yet others are reaping the rewards, in effect stealing our labor and capital. This is wrong. If we were a rogue state that did not respect international intellectual property conventions/laws I would feel differently. However, we are one of the most strict enforcers of copyright/patent laws, and feel we deserve the same in return. (yeah, I know, our patent office is a joke, but this has nothing to do with enforcement of law). Difficult thing is, countries which do not respect international intellectual property laws tend to have little or no intellectual property themselves, thus it is to their immediate economic benefit to steal, and we can't do anything in return except impose tarrifs on their products.
I do think Ukraine is being unfairly singled out, and that the main thieves of intellectual property, Russia and China, should have been targeted first. I can only think that this is due to the fact that Ukraine is one of the main recipients of U.S. foreign aid.
Just to end on a personal note, I do find myself conflicted when it comes to punishing people for pirating Microsoft IP. It is a struggle between my love of country, and hatred of Microsoft's business practices, but in the end, love of country wins out.
..I couldn't agree more with the Anonymous Coward above. His or her post may be considered as flamebait, but really, it is in fact related to the subject. The US think they are the "world police" and can shape the world just like they want it. I know most Americans get really pissed off when I say this, but it is the truth.
And then my own disclamier to avoid the triggerhappy moderators..
In case you think I'm talking about what's happening in the mid-east: No, that's not what I'm talking about; I do not support mr.Laden nor mr.Bush. Why I don't is another story.
But - and you have obviously been lucky and privileged enough to have the luxury of ignorance on this point - in much of the world, people have had a bad history of actually being persecuted by actual police states. They often used a technique that is actually the main point of the article; licensed, traceable presses. In former East Bloc states (I know you weren't born before the fall of the Soviet Empire, so go ask your history teacher), typewriters were licensed. They had serial numbers, they were registered with the police, and they had sample pages stored on file to compare against any counter-revolutionary screeds. This way, if anyone criticised the state, it was possible to find and punish the misdoers.
The serial numbers discussed in the article are, in effect, Big Biz and the Gummint doing an end run around constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech. They are accomplishing what the East Bloc folks did with laws meant, allegedly, to PROTECT the interests of authors. They have put in place a massively intrusive mechanism for destroying privacy and created extremely effective tools for violating the rights of citizens. You don't know of any cases of these tools being used, but that's a poor guarantee of freedom. Don't throw away that mimeograph machine just yet.
And since you go for the ad hominem thing, I won't hold this last one back. Sure, he's paranoid, but you are a toady. Gimme a choice between a paranoid and a vicious whiner with his nose up the Man's ass, and guess which one I'll toss out of the lifeboat?
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I just got back from Ukraine where I lived for just over 2 years. Any CD you want, music or software is ~3 dollars! You can buy them at kiosk in all major cities and they have a crackdown in Kiev whenever delegates from the West come to discuss the issue.
Its MUCH more reminicant of an ornithocracy
Next we need open source instructions on producing CD recorders
:-)
Buttsex.
Next thing we'll have telephone answering machines recording what phone numbers people are calling from....
...in short, we'll be living in a POLICE STATE.
Caller ID
video libraries recording who borrowed each book and when.....
Library card
Internet ads that track and record who saw them...
Cross-site cookies
hotel room doors that record every time each person goes in or out...
Key cards
cellphones that report every move we make to the authorities...
Universal 911
tollbooths that record every car that goes through them...
E-ZPass
guards in every airport demanding to see 'our papers' before we are permitted to travel in our own country...
Flagged for search when paying cash
Shouldn't that be present tense?
Nope, no sig
Without getting too emoptional about the obvious issue, don't you think the comment made has some validity at least in the sense that the US always 'feels' it has to be the world leader?
The death of thousands of people like the WTC is a tragedy, the death of one person is bad enough.
But what the US needs to understand is that countries consist of communities, communities consist of people. People who are concerned about their life and prosperity.
Now your country doesn't comply with some US agreement. Exports are restricted, you lose your job at the paper mill and your family goes hungry. Maybe your daughter or son die of some disease because you can't afford surgery/medicine. You grow to hate the US.
Think about it. It's happened before. It's very easy to make these type of comments when you don't have to see the effect of US policies on other countries.
What did you expect them to do? Bush wasn't voted into office. I don't know if Gore would have made much of a difference (although I suspect he would not have been trying to let the country run on autopilot while catching up on naptimes) but did you think the citizens of the US were going to take to the streets or something?
US have big stick! You have little stick! Big stick crush little stick! Yaw!
They didn't destabilize the while economy, but this is a more far-reaching legislative act that it appears.
As a fledgling country with a not-very-stable economy, they are obviously investing in the technology to produce items such as CD Blanks and Recorders. This technology has, it would seem, already been invested in, since without the capability to create non-conforming CD's, there would be no reason for this legislation.
Were they able to produce such items cheap enough, it might have been to the US consumer's advantage to purchase them from the Ukraine, instead of Taiwan, or China, or wherever. If for no other reason than Ukraine wouldn't be as susceptible to regional economy scales. And multiple source markets are always good leveraging tools in our economy.
However, the RIAA has spurred this legislation into being, effectively shutting down the chance for the Ukraine to export their goods to the US. After they apparently invested in the technology. Which means any money spent is now pretty much wasted.
This space for rent. Call 1-800-STEAK4U
This could put manufacturers of raw materials to make computer equipment in Ukraine out of business. All of these decisions have a hidden objective to them (ok, so I'm paranoid). Maybe the US sees that Ukraine could soon be the Silicon Valley of the Eastern Bloc, and wants to nip it in the bud.
BTW, Russia pirates the bejeezus out of everything and the US hasn't made a fuss about it. Because of that, I don't think the US's gripe is legitamite.
Canada will fall in line with everything that the RIAA and other oppressive US corporations and corporate organizations demand. They'll just try to put a happy spin on it.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
The short answer to this is No...
I work for a large printer manufacturer and we produce color laser printers, and color laser printer/copiers.
The is an arrangemnet that all "Color Copies" carry a "Signature" of the machine that made the color copy. This signature reveals the serial number and model number of the copier that produced it. It was done in an effort to track conterfeiting.
For example... if you walk up to a Color LaserJet 8550 MFP and make a copy from the scanner, it will have a series of tiny yellow dots that the naked eye can not detect under normal lighting. If you look at the copy under magnification with a blue light you can see the dots. These dots are the signature...
However...
If you scan a $100 dollar bill on your desktop scanner... then print it on the Same Machine it will not have the signature... as it is a 'print' and not a 'copy'.
Hope this helps,
.:diatonic:.
Do you mean 'thousands' like in: "Thousands of people are starving every day because the US and Western Europe are so rich allready that poorer country's can never compete with them." ?
All the tracking devices and whatnot being embedded in paper, cds, copiers, etc etc, there is one simple and elegant solution to overcome this:
Steal.
That's right, don't buy the paper, cds, copiers, etc, so it can be traced back to you...steal it instead, perferably from out of state or out of country.
Then when the powers that be try to track down who did what, they hit the blank wall of "item stolen, thief unknown".
:-)
Who will we wage undeclared war on next?
We don't even know yet - that's what's so exciting!
I feel tingly all over
This is a bit of old news, but interesting new commentary provided in the original posting. Essentially metals and footware (good thing Nike's are manafactured in Viet Namese sweat shops and not Ukraine sweat shops, I would hate to see Michael Jordan battling with Hilary Rosen of RIAA)
The white house sent the following email to people on their trade/tech related listserv. Also see here for the Trade Office's (u.s. govt) press release.
TO: High Tech Leaders
US imposes sanctions on Ukraine in CD piracy row
WASHINGTON, Dec 20 (Reuters) - The United States will impose sanctions on $75
million worth of Ukrainian goods in retaliation for the continued piracy of U.S.
music compact disc and other optical media products, a spokesman for the U.S.
Trade Representative's office said on Thursday.
The action follows repeated warnings that the United States would impose
sanctions unless Ukraine stopped the illegal reproduction of the products within
its borders.
The U.S. industry estimates annual losses from Ukrainian piracy at more than
$200 million.
That's garbage. First of all, the French didn't do anything. Second of all, any defense the Brits put up would have fallen well short of being effective without the Lend-Lease Act. You should read some history. Third of all, the U.S. entered the war in Europe for a number of reasons - all of which fall under the category of it being our best interest. You probably don't know about the attempt by Nazi Germany to get Mexico to invade the U.S. because you are a moron. You shouldn't try to rewrite history in such a poor manner - it's in bad taste. And American bombs did not kill more people in Antwerp than any other. I'll clue you in to where you go wrong with this statement. HIROSHIMA. NAGASAKI. Think about it junior.
Or do we live comfortable with ourselves knowing we're hypocrites?
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
Yeah, those damn flapping things are all over the Capital these days. But what do you expect? They cost 0 to put out, they fly, they can take 2 damage, and with the right combination you can sacrifice them forever for mana. He who controls the ornithopters controls the country.
PS. Ever go to Ebay? There are a ton of Magic cards there. I just wish I had the extra cash to get that Acid Rain. But not this week. (And no this is not a plug, I am not a seller on Ebay, strictly a buyer and window-gazer.)
... "US Punishes self because Ukraine supports piracy".
After all, the Ukrainains aren't the ones with a huge surplus of productive capacity, the US is.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
I just travelled to the USA. I saw first hand a huge amount of blind ignorance and arrogance when it comes to anything beyond your borders. Sad thing is, is that these nice Americans didn't even realize how offensive they are being. I thought to myself "One of these days, they're going to upset some foreign country so bad, that the USA will get a collective punch in the nose right back."
Whups, that already happened... Very sad, and not excusable. If a kid insults enough jocks at school, he's gonna get beat up. Sad, unexcusable, but there definately are preventative measures that could be taken.
I hope you learn the correct lessons. Being the toughest kid on the block shouldn't mean it's ok to thoughtlessly offend anyone you care to. Americans do this far more than they understand. It's time to re-learn the age old skill of diplomacy, understanding, and consideration of others.
someone needs to invent a storage device that could store TB's (or more) of data. And license it under some sort of gpl-like thing to make sure the corporate pigs don't get their hands on it, for example, if someone incorporated a copy-protection or drm system onto it, they would have to make the modifications availiable, screw the dmca. Imagine what that would do to the RIAA and MPAA overnight, now thats what i _call_ terrorism lol :) those capitalist pigs must die :)
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I agree with you but with these moderators? Good luck.
>Over the course of this week, we've given full
>trade access to China, despite the fact that it
>is a communist nation of the worst kind that
>openly hunts, tortures, and kills people for
>belonging to a
> religion that isn't sanctioned by the government
>or coming anywhere near defying the government's
>will, and we've punished Ukraine for abetting
>piracy.
Yeah, dig that "communist nation" fellas! Isn't even this thoughtworthy post so clice all american it dripps? LOL!
To the point:
This is actually quite fitting, since the US are - alongside with China - amongst the 5 (in words: FIVE !) countrys worldwide that still have the death toll as a legal and operational means of punishment.
Figure that the other three are (don't know exactly) something like some country somewhere in Indonesia and 2 diktator-nations somewhere in some 3rd world jungle boondocs where humanity was abandoned long ago anyway.
Not to forget the 150 per 1000 people in jail the US has got. Like Chile in Pinochet times. Probably even more.
Checking on those details and some other concerning their foreing policy - especially with, but not limited to - 3rd world countries - it has allready long ago been objectively conclusive that the US are quite on par with crook nations like Lybia or China.
Think twice about it and note that this isn't just your standard foreign anti-americanism. I was an american citizen myself for more than 18 years, and am frightend by the rate im growing happy I ain't anymore.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Duh...to answer my own questions (and perhaps those of a few others) I found this blurb at cdrfaq.org...
Hacker Public Radio is our Friend
kinda makes the US look like microsoft, doesn't it? honestly, you can't expect microsoft to feel bad about what they're doing to other businesses when they live in a country that does the same to other entire countries.
-- Classism is the new racism
and interrupt all the (probably quite justified for many other reasons) hysteria against the RIAA and the gov't officials they own, but:
Stamped ID codes on the CD's are nothing new. Book, magazine, and newspaper publishers always identify themselves in their publications. Look down at the bottom of the table of contents in most magazines -- there's the publisher's name and address, among other information. A book will have the publisher's name on the title page, much more information on the reverse side of that page, and an ID # somewhere on the cover. This isn't some sinister plot to extend their monopoly on printed material, or for the gov't to control printing, but rather it's just good for business. You want more copies of that book or article -- here's where you go to buy them legally...
OTOH, the RIAA's belief that those ID codes will prevent piracy seems rather too naive for a business that routinely deals with rap singers and comes out of the deal with most of the money and no bullet holes. I'm sure the pirates will get the message from this Ukrainian action -- when you counterfeit CD's, also counterfeit some legitimate mfg's ID #...
[2] http://www.jj-johnson.com/copiers.htm
[3] http://www.c-prompt-dev.com/bulletin.0119.htm
[4] http://www.naqp.org/staging1/press/copier_fraud.h
[5] http://www.parascope.com/articles/0197/xerox.htm
Sheesh. Do you believe everything you read? You forgot this site.
-h-
Check out Company Flow's "America" if you want some music that will insight revolutionary thought while sending pleasant shivers down your spine.
Si
http://www.congress.gov Change will not come about until we are able to get the MPAA, General Electric, Wal-Mart, and a lot of other greedy corporations out of the pockets of our leaders. The first step in dooring this is letting your representative in congress know that you are on to them and that you are a registered voter who disapproves. Despite the best efforts of the RIAA , We the people are still in charge around here. http://www.congress.gov
Insert sig here (slashdot) Insert cig here (Lewinsky)
"And why is it that when the it is decided that some sort of multi-lateral standard is required, why is the US standard is the one that almost certainly adopted?"
Can you imagine if US standards of measurement would be applied to Science?
Instead of:
Meters you have Yards
Milimeters you have Inches
Centimeters you have eigths (and half the country can't do fractions..)
Where the hell did a foot come from?
Instead of Nanotechnology, you'd have pinkie toe technology.
Would anyone have a clue as to wafer size?
Sometimes when you see the U.S. coming, it IS best to just run for the hills, and it's NOT because of military might..
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
"Allah Akbar!"
-arfy
Interested readers seeking background information on this subject may enjoy this 30-page excerpt from Questioned Documents: A Lawyer's Handbook by Jay Levinson, from Academic Press.
However, there are some very strong interests that want Trade with China, and frankly Ukraine doesn't have very much. Therefore China continues with Govt endorsed counterfeiting (some plants are under military control) and the Ukraines gets hit.
See my journal, I write things there
... a good proportion of the rest of the world detests the USA, and why there's a smoking pile of rubble in lower Manhattan.
Extracted from this link.
You can find it in the spec for lots of copiers by searching the web for Counterfeit Deterrent Marking System.
Pablo honey? Come to Florida? Recount votes? I dunno...
Land of the free ?
Grrrrr,
Osama calls W:
O: Hello W, my friend.
W: Uhh, hello.
O: I have some good and some bad news.
W: Ohh, what are the good news ?
O: I surrender to the USA, I am giving myself up.
W: Great, what are the bad news ?
O: I am taking the plane
It really pisses me off that we will get tough on Ukraine for not genuflecting to the American IP cartel (RIAA/MPAA), yet just days ago, grant PERMANENT most favored nation trade status to China.
China, after all, is a country that murdered enough people in the 20th Century to make Hitler look like an amateur. It's a country that forces women to have abortions, that jails religious leaders and condems them to death, that wants to hide it's citizens from the Internet...
Not only that, but just last year, China forced down a US plane over international waters, KIDNAPPED airmen, and tried to ransom them.
China is FAR more deserving of 100% tariffs than is Ukraine. But then, Ukraine isn't home to American megacorp sweatshops, and doesn't willingly supply slave labor to man them.
When will it end? How do we fight a war against the corporate IP cartel? How far will our government let it go?
The way I see it, all the way to the world of "Demolition Man" or "Rollerball", so long as our sheepizens keep voting for the same old parties.
Bending over for corporations is a bi-partisan effort. Both parties do it almost equally.
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
It's going to come down to something akin to a Digital Boston Tea Party. The original BTP was an "enough-is-enough" protest against unjust taxes. Remember, those taxes were legal, but when enough people got pissed off about them, they staged a protest that made the Animal House parade mods seem pale by comparison.
In economic terms it's beginning to look like the recording industry, born in analog and transmogridifed into new digital clothes, is no longer a viable business model. Thus we have the spate of new laws to protect their interests and prolong their economic strength. The industry can no longer sustain its lifeblood without the help of artificial government laws and regulations. The atmosphere of legal bribery - political campaign donations and lobyists - has allowed them to pull off the DMCA, UCTIA and other patently absurd legislation.
The time is drawing near when nothing short of mass protest will suffice to throw off these usurpers of democracy and purveyors of digital tyrrany. I say COPY, COPY, COPY music. Then COPY some more. Don't be content with making backups for youself. Actively copy music and then MAKE AN EXTRA COPY AND GIVE IT TO A FRIEND. The music industry fears for their bottom line, despite numbers which suggest that casual copying and does not hurt their sales. Time to give them something to cry about.
About the only flaw I see in my plan is that there is way too much garbage out there that noone of moderately mature taste and sophistication would touch with a ten-foot pole. Time to show the bastards who's boss, and do it in ways that make their lawyers impotent and expose their paid whores in Washington for what they are. Strike a blow for freedom in America. When old business models can't stand up to modernization it's time for them to go.
Next thing we'll have telephone answering machines recording what
phone numbers people are calling from....video libraries recording who
borrowed each book and when.....Internet ads that track and record who
saw them...hotel room doors that record every time each person goes
in or out...cellphones that report every move we make to the
authorities...tollbooths that record every car that goes through them...
guards in every airport demanding to see 'our papers' before we are
permitted to travel in our own country...
Since it seems that most of the time, we do something technological because we can, not because we should, because these things can be done, they will eventually be done. In other words, technology is the biggest weapon in the Police State's hand. How can we wield it against the Police State? If we aren't allowed the firepower that the Police State has? Simple example: I am not allowed to own and fly a fully-armed F-16 (I am assuming this).
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
For whatever it is worth, I flew to the US less than 3 weeks after the bombing.
I met lots of nice people, but I never stopped being amazed about why it so seldomly were asked why the US were being . It was all about how to deal with the perpetrators.
But maybe it was the fear of the hoover commission all over again among the public, and that no sign of fear must be visible.
..if there should be any doubt, I didn't like the attack on sep. 11th either..yet understand that I as a small foreigner, are vulnerable to the actions of the mighty giant, nomatter if the giant notices or not..and I don't like this dependency more than an American would be of an Englishman..
I pledge allegiance,
to the trademark,
of the United Corporations of America,
and to the profits,
for which they stand,
one cartel,
under the board,
with copyrights,
and injustice for all
There's something that had a real chance of success...wait, I think it's working! Someone tell Mexico that Germany lost the war.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
On Declan's website, here is the RIAA response to Gilmore--Don't cheer piracy! (RIAA words, not mine).
Get in line and wait your turn.
Huxley was more prescient than Orwell. Orwell envisioned a police state where the State control was kept through fear. Huxley envisioned a police state where the State control was maintained simply because the people didn't care anymore; all they wanted was soma and the feelies. It's still a police state; not a brutal one, but a kind, gentle one. And we in the US, we just want our Cable TV and our fast food.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
See the homepage of The Iraqi Presidency and especially the HTML source:
meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage Express 2.0"
Originally I'm from Ukraine and have somehow mixed feelings about the piracy issue. Just some comments:
1) Yes, the piracy level is really insane there in Ukirane. The price of "a software" is $2 per CD. No matter what it is - Windows, Oracle, any games, etc. Just $2, and you can buy it in kiosks at any shopping mall, near almost every bus stop, etc. The situation with music and video is similar. Most of the music now is in MP3 format, so 1-2 disc set covers all the albums of an artist. The discs also contain an MP3 player (Winamp usually) plus album lyrics, pictures, etc. The same $2 per disc.
2) I talked to some people selling the pirated stuff. From what they told me, almost all the software CDs are made in China. The video and audio discs usually come from Russia, China and Bulgaria. Not Ukraine.
3) Average monthly salary there is about $50-100; individuals could not buy the licensed software anyway. It's not an excuse, of course; JFYI.
4) Ukrainian companies is different story. They do buy licensed software. I'd say, the piracy level in corporations there is on about the same level as here in the US.
>>"First of all, the French didn't do anything."
Give the French credit, where it is due! They built more tanks for Nazi Germany, than Germany ever did.
The Yugoslavian, Russian and Greek guerillas put up more of a fight for the Germans than the 'professional' French army ever did. The French were very cooperative in building weapons for das Fuhrer.
I recently visited a rape victim I know, but she never talked about how she could avoid these things in the future. I mean, if she would just learn that it's not a good thing to go to a guy's apartment in skimpy clothing, or act interested when he talks to her, she wouldn't have this problem. Instead, all she did was talk about helping the police catch the rapist! I mean, I didn't like the rape either, but she needs to learn, right?
Actually it was the US that couldn't do "shit right" at Normandy. They ignored the advice of the British to use specialised armour ("Hobo's funnies") to support beach assaults and as a result had to learn over again the hard way all the lessons the British and Canadians had learnt at Dieppe two years earlier. *That* is why the Omaha and Utah landings were such bloodbaths; incompetence and (yawn...) NIH syndrome on the part of the US commanders. This debacle delayed the break-out from the Normandy pocket and the pursuit of the German army.
Don't forget, however, that the Western Front was a mere sideshow to the REAL land war over in the East; it's Russia that overwhelmingly bore the brunt of the land fighting in WWII Europe.
By the way, by the time the US was involved in strength in France in WWI the liberation of the country was already under way. The German invasion of France, in case you didn't know, was halted by French and British troops way back in 1914. The contribution of US troops to the allied cause in that war was sweet FA (although it would have been greater had the war continued into 1919).
Yes, the US provided armaments to the allies before their official involvement in World War II... for cash (and let's not forget that swap of 50 obsolete destroyers for various British naval bases). It was only after France was invaded and Britain bled dry that Lend-Lease came in.
America did very well out of the war. It's real easy to look a hero when you stay on the sidelines for two years building up your industrial base without fear of attack while the other Western allies have been doing the fighting and dying...
(No, not European but Australian. We started fighting the same time Britain did in both wars).
Just so you know, it's only the auto insurance that's compulsory. Home insurance is an open market, but SGI happens to be a good deal. One of the few well-run government anythings that I've ever dealth with.
Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
Writing is completely useless. Your representative only listens to the people who give him/her money. Unless you are Coco-Cola you are wasting your time.
Malaysia is home to the VCD Business; most of the VCD market resides in that country. All the plants reside their as well. I don't see the US putting some boycotss on Malaysia.
On the other hand, Malaysia is home to child labor sweatshops. We need those $200 Nike's to be made by workers for $1.50 a day.
Stop posting lameass "boy this sucks" complaints on Slashdot, and, if you don't like this, complain.
This attitude is half the problem, it implies that any tenable solution comes via working thru the system - what a crock! The only way people are going to get real results is thru outright civil disobedience of intellectual property law.
When you just talk, that's all you're going to get back - bullshit. I am so sick and tired of self-proclaimed self-rightous clowns wanting me and others to direct our efforts to something so useless and so beholden to those who want to controll us. They would have Martin Luther King go on letter writing campaigns to klan funded congreeemen instead of gatherings and sit outs. No thank you.
Anybody who wants some real results will get far better milage by defying copyright laws, putting freenet servers on their systems, and doing the things you like doing for and with "free" (as in freedom) software as much as possible.
the measuring standards don't matter as long as they are a known standard.
its all in what you're used to.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"The other half just sat twiddling their thumbs".
I'm sure any Norwegians or Danes reading this will take umbrage; both had very well organised and heroic resistance movements that did far more than the better known French one.
If you're ever in Oslo or Copenhagen have a look at the resistance museums in both cities; they are inspiring places.
"US was also involved in the Asian front"
Gee, so were Britain, India, China, Australia, New Zealand and the Netherlands... (and, of course, at the very end of the war, the USSR).
May be, but you need an Orwell state to support a Huxley state. Huxley states are incredibly wasteful and over-consumptive, as we are in the US. So, we need to establish slave states in other parts of the world to keep our fresh supply of Nikes and cocaine. There's only room for so many fat lazy pigs at the world table. Somebody's got to starve.
Or at least stay within your AOL "Communities" and stop venturing out on to websites.
Seriously, they guy was being sarcastic. Pay attention.
Really? I'd say that's unusual. It is normal for rape victims to look to blame themselves and look for ways in which they brought on the attack, which doesn't mean that they are to blame of course just that that's a common reaction.
Focussing almost exclusively on the police investigation would be so unusual that I'm sure you just made this up.
As I recall when the Italians invaded Greece the Greeks pushed them out and started invading Italy and the Germans had to come in to save the Italians.
mod this up!
Personally I always find it amusing how American
view points of History differs so dramatically
with the rest of the world...
(not European, Canadian!)
I heard digital cameras actually place a similar watermark in all photos they produce, so the photo can be matched to the camera that made it. True, or another paranoid ranting?
It is nice that more people know of the fact that the Russian people bore the brunt of WWII. In my school, (I live in the United States), when I claimed that the French resistance was a joke(the only resistance taught in most US high schools). I further maintained that if you want to talk of resistance in WWII you should look in this order:
1.Russia
2.Yugoslavia
3.Greece
and that Russia fought most of the German army and my teacher failed me for it(she thought America fought most of the war, the bitch). In the United States we spend so much time teaching our children to learn an incorrect represtantion of that war.
I was right, teacher or grades be damned. It is a shame that the modern French should trumph up their forefathers resistance in that war and that our schools/media/government should go along with that illusion.
Once you have no right to privacy it becomes much easier to spot those with dissenting views.
Do you trust your government (or the corporations that own it) that much?
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
And this is going to do what? Help stop piracy? HAH. Think again. Get real. Don't people realize that the more they fight piracy the more it will happen? Thats just the way it is. People will crack the latest application weather or not it includes product activation.
Punishing a whole country because the fatcats in big business feel they need to 'get tough' is way out of line, and I sure hope that the Ukraine retaliates in some way... Maybe if enough bad things happen in response to this, it might make the US govt think twice.
Brielle
Well I am American and I agree with the parent, but what he said is not what I learned in school.
My grandpa fought in the Greek civil war and when he died I bought many books to learn about what it was like when he was growing up in occupied Greece. What I learned from school could not be harmonizied with what I learned about the Greek Civil War.
In high school, they only taught us about the French resistance, which was more like a group of social clubs talking about deeds, than an insurgency. It seems that the Greeks put up a much more fierce resistance than the French did and it seemed odd we should learn only of the French resistance, odder still when you consider that the Russian and Yugoslavians put up even fiercer resistance than the Greeks.
What we Americans learn in school and tv can not be called history. It is what we wish history was. I can not believe all these idiots who talk of the dastardly Japs attacking Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor was an illegally occupied colony.
When was the last time you were asked for proof of ID when buying a colour laser? If you are going to print out your own bank notes, just make sure you do not use the same printer to print anything that remains on-site, then junk the printer.
Of course, be sure you can trust your OS:
"No officer, I hve no idea how my MS Passport number ended up on this $100 bill... honest..."
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Who passes this legislation?; it wouldn't be the same folks who are trying to treat us to some new legislation here would it?
Of all the troubles we have had as of late this is the best thing our government can find to legislate?
Perhaps some oversight into the senate's commerce committee is in order.
Like my father always used to tell me, "I don't know what the hell is going on, alls i know is that someones getting paid."
I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. (Charles Manson)
No, the Greeks did not invade Italy... Also this was before Germany attacked Russia. I am sure the Germans may very well have attacked Greece anyway to secure their southern flank. I do not think the Greek army at that time could conquer possibly Italy, they moved supplies by donkies and horses mostly over poorly paved Balkan rodes.
The Italians had modern equipment, but the Italian people are not like the Germans or Japanese. They do not have a long colonial tradition and were not very enthusiastic to fight and conquer new lands. The Greek people on the other hand most certainly, did not want to be occupied and they fought bravely.
There is a good Greek movie made about the War, it has english subtitles and portrays things pretty accurately(especially when you compare it to Hollywood). They have a version with American subtitles, pretty good movie. If you are interested I can find out the name.
I once spent 6 years of my life fixing photocopiers (Thank god I write code now). I can say that the comment above is absolutly not true. The technology used in all black and white photocopiers, and in all color copiers that use toner rather than a photographic process, does not have a high enough resolution to accuratly embed a serial number into the "pixels" of a copy.
It's hard enough just to get the black areas dark enough and the white areas bright enough much less having to worry about modifying individual pixels.
Moreover, most photocopiers work by shining a bright light on the original and using the reflected light off the page to effect the static charge on a selenium covered drum. The original is not scanned, modified, and re-broadcast onto the drum.
The new digital copiers do scan the original one time and then use a laser to "print" the page on the drum from memory, but then you have to ask yourself:
It's unfortunate that Gilmore makes these outrageous claims in an otherwise well thought out article. It seems to push him from the "well-informed protector of our rights" to "crackpot". I wish he would write about what he understands instead of resulting to conspiracy theories. There is enough evil in the RIAA without having to make up conspiracies.
Gee, why do some many people around the world hate the US? Could be because we bully other countries into doing shit they don't want to?
Being a superpower comes with responsibility to the rest of the world. We should be acting better than this. We should be helping people that need help (by giving them food with no strings attached).
But more importantly we should stop acting like big dumb American assholes. Is it really impossible for the US to stop sticking their nose in everyone else's business?
ADVICE TO MY COUNTRY: Stop pissing all over the rest of the world or we will have even bigger problems then a few terrorists. We could actually see a country with a military telling us to go fuck ourselves with big guns and bombs.
How would like to have a billion Chinese or Indians(the one's from India) on your ass. That's going to take more then a few tomahawk's and marines to put away.
LoRider
umm, just so everyone knows, that really did happen. but it was during WWI (see: the Zimmerman note (or telegraph or whatever)). It was at a time where Mexico actually had enough power to be able to re-take (with German backing) the parts of the southern US it had lost.
and jazman, I laughed at your joke, no matter how racist it is. heh
Of course not! Loss of privacy is wrong, but it's just not the same as the Gulag. That's all.
> Focussing almost exclusively on the police
> investigation would be so unusual that I'm
> sure you just made this up
... or she did...
Is there any way to prevent this little function from working correctly?
1. Pay cash for the drive.
2. Don't register the product. Of course, if they get physical possession of the drive, this won't work, but short of that, it's foolproof.
As a Canadian citizen, I am fully used to taking it up the ass
So, that's what they mean by back bacon.
>the measuring standards don't matter as long as
>they are a known standard.
>its all in what you're used to.
You're saying there's no benefit to using a consistent decimal unit system, but you are quite mistaken. There are some subtle (and not-so-subtle) aspects to the use of the metric system
that makes it a better choice than classical measures. This should be apparent to anyone who
works with compound units.
Or one billion potential customers.
Best Slashdot Co
You know, some whiners have spent the last few months telling me we're starving the good people of Iraq. I've told them to bug off, that it wasn't our fault the Iraqi government wanted to destroy us and we couldn't afford to waste "aid" that would only wind up in the hands of a corrupt government instead of its people.
Now there's some room for disagreement over it, but I felt like it was reasonable to support the U.S. government's stance because of the way the government of Iraq is. To be blunt, they're evil and untrustworthy. I don't think it makes us evil to say we don't want to support Saddam Hussein.
But we're going to do the same thing to Ukraine --- because they're COPYING CD's?????
Again, as in the case of Sklyarov, I wonder why we feel people in other countries should obey our laws. I don't obey theirs.
Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
mod this up too!
This seems to be another good reason why Hitler invaded Greece:
"Meanwhile Hitler, who had been preoccupied with plans for "Operation Felix" to take Gibraltar, destined to come to nothing because Spain's General Franco refused to throw in his lot with the Axis, had decided that Germany could not stand by and watch Mussolini and his compatriots annihilated. If he allowed the Balkan campaign to go to the Allies, the Rumanian oil fields would be threatened. Something had to be done. A date of March 15th was therefore set for a German invasion of Greece."
"At 5.15am on the 6th, as Panzer Group Kleist entered Yugoslavia, Field-Marshal List crossed the border between Bulgaria and Greece with five divisions from the German XXX Corps in the East and the XVIII Mountain Corps in the West. Overhead, Stukas of the Luftwaffe attacked the fortified Metaxas line, receiving as they did so a nasty surprise, for alone among such fortifications in Europe, the Metaxas Line had 37mm guns, which did a great deal of harm to the Ju87 aircraft. The Greeks held out with enormous courage and no little success. The Germans suffered substantial losses at the Nevrokop Basin, and in the Rupel Pass, and at no point found their advance easy. The Greeks were a tougher opponent than most that Germany had encountered. Nonetheless, sheer force of numbers and armaments ensured that the Germans advanced towards their objective, and gradually the Greek units began to surrender when they could do nothing more."
The problem with WWII is that the nations that had modern weaponry were managed by an incompetent military. The nations that fought bravely and intelligently against the Germans, the Finns and Greeks to name a few, lacked the resources to compete with the German army.
I could find no mention of the Greeks invading Italy. The Italians pulled out and soon after the Germans pulled in.
"Recognition of the Greek contribution to the final defeat of the Axis
Some prominent personalities among Enemies and Friends have since then underestimated and doubted the substantial Greek contribution to the allied Victory in WW II. Indicatively is mentioned here the negative view expressed by the English historian Basil Liddell Heart, on page 162 of the first volume of his book "History of WW II" published in 1988 by the Hellenic Army General Staff, regarding the delay of the German attack on Russia: "However, the campaign against Greece was not the cause of the delay." It suffices to mention here just twounchallengeable sources, which recognize and prove manifestly the effective Greek contribution: The words of Hitler himself, spoken in 1944 to the famous German photographer and cinematographist Lenie Riffenstahl, as she relates in her memoirs:
"The entrance of Italy to the War was proven catastrophic for us. Had the Italians not attacked Greece and had they not needed our help, the War would have taken a different course. We would have had time to capture Leningrad and Moscow, before the Russian cold weather set in." The memoirs of the Russian Field Marshal Zukoff:
"If the Russian Peoples succeeded in raising their tired bodies in front of the gates of Moscow, to contain and set back the German torrent, they owe it to the Greek People, that delayed the German Divisions all the time needed. The gigantomachy of Crete, was the climax of the Greek contribution.""
Taken from: http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~u0dp/
I never thought of that aspect, that the invasion of Greece setback greatly the German timetable, it is a shame that some pedant British historian can not see this and would not rob them of their glory so he can satisify his British jingoism.
Isn't it embarrassing though the way she keeps walking down the street without underwear, bending over and saying "come on big boy" to every guy who passes?
Ah well, so long as they catch the guy this time, it'll never happen again.
One other factor why people outside the US are (slightly?) more knowledgeable about the rest of the world is that the rest of the world is more likely to have an impact on them: a war in Europe is within spitting distance of a whole lotta countries. Also, no other country has the enormous military might of the US, and so are more likely to be under threat from a war that might stray beyond country boundaries (which are much more flexible than, say, oceans). Ditto political and economic events.
Finally, the distance argument is fallacious: Australia is physically very big, albeit (theoretically) running under one Federal government.Texas is the size of our second smallest state (maybe third: size doesn't matter to me ;-), and there's several that are two or three times the size. But I don't think that horizontal distance == communication distance. Or how could y'all benefit from my doubtless inane opinions?
Finally finally, remember that any gross generalities are nothing more than statistical summaries, and *never* apply to the whole populace: I'm living in a country whose government (for which I did *not* vote) has earned itself the reputation for being narrow-minded, bigoted, regressive, repressive, and nostalgic for the glorious 50s. I do *not* support these ridiculous policies, just as I'm sure there are many well-informed citizens of the US. And /. is hardly a representative sample of any population, other than the geek one, is it?
It is unreasonable to expect them to adopt America's particular version of the system or draconian copyright laws. Quite frankly, stamping CDs with the manufacturer is not a reasonable measure we can force on other countries. Neither are software patents, DMCA-like anticircumvention laws, etc.
Until the RIAA can give examples of what else Ukraine has done/failed to do wrong, I fear I have to side against it.
Next we will hear on the new improved CNN
... software perfered by terrorists.
.. can u imagine having to pass a constitution test in highschool after learning the Fibbies are reading your email, your locker has just been searched, u had to pee in a bottle, and in order to get in the school u went through a metal detector? .... Now explain how the constitution provides u with the freedoms not to put up with this
News Flash, Computer captured from Al-Queda terrorists for to have sectet plans for (whatever devious act u choose) was using the Linux operating system
Is something wrong when the RIAA & Gates have the power to block trade with an emerging nation because they havent passed laws strict enough to satisfy their greed?
Is this the same USA i grew up in?
lastly
* Carthago Delenda Est *
I've rarely seen the US getting blamed for being not involved in something. In fact, the only time I remember is when they failed to deliver economic aid to Eastern Europe after the collapse of communism. They were blamed because they repeatidly promised to do so to the people who led to the collapse. That seems perfectly reasonable. Anyone know of any other examples?
Like if Ukraine will give a shit... After all, Europe is far closer and has a bigger market that is unencumbered by the silly prejudices americans harbor towards everything foreign...
We've been there a while. Compare the penalties for DMCA-infringement to those of rape and first time murder in most places. When we hit that copyright laws gave you several times more jail time than rape was, I believe, the falling point.
but not child labor labor laws?
Being American its hard for me to understand how so many other American's refuse to review our history. They refuse to dig for information about what our government has done that could ever possibly upset people to the point of attacking the US. They are simple minded folk that learn by watching TV and accept blindly what their false gods tell them.
America has killed so many innocent people with its foreign policy and world-police actions within the last couple decades that it isn't funny anymore. Well, ok, its a little funny. I find it hillarious, actually, that we can kill so many innocent people without anyone retaliating. I mean, they didn't really attack us on sep 11th because we killed innocent people. We have yet to see a retaliation. Since there's no concequences for our actions we should kill again and again and again and again and again. Hell, by the time they can stop us we'll have an unstoppable military. $350 billion a year! Mmmm, death.
I want peace. I'd chop off a hand or sell my soul for peace. But Americans don't want peace. They want revenge and money. Money comes at the cost of foreign lives, which is legal in America, or any capitalist nation for that matter... Well, if that's all it takes, then lets fucking get it over with. Just declare all foreigners are terrorists and nuke 'em all. Then give me my fucking mansion and ferrari so I can be happy. Heh, I hate being an American. I'm sorry, I'm ashamed of my people and my country.
The letters were well written and printed on standard MIT AI Lab letterheads. Quite frankly, I've come to the conclusion that there's absolutely nothing we can do politically. Civil disobedience may help. Voting third party to lend credibility to the fact that we _can_ get those jerks out of office may help. Voting between democrat and republican and writing letters won't help.
The major powers were not incompetent, but both the Americans and British were fighting away from home, against the 'bad' side, the real of the nazies was not realized until they were well into retreat.
This can also be found with the American heroics in the pacific, and the Russians on the eastern front.
I write letters. It's clear from the response I get that no one reads them.
Couldn't figure out why the RIAA's response sounded so familiar until I played with it a little bit with vi. The following is the result and is just satire, but shows how much things have changed over the last 10 years.....
Previous messages:
"capitalist lackey John Gilmore on Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine doing the right thing, fighting RIAA Workers Party"
"Peoples Republic of U.S. says Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine turns blind eye to piracy, levies tariffs"
---
From: General Secretary, RIAA
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 17:26:29 -0500
I just read capitalist lackey John Gilmore's e-mail concerning the imposition of US People's Republic sanctions on Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine for its failure to adequately protect state intellectual property, and thought that I would spend a few minutes to provide the real story for any peace loving person who is interested.
First of all, it is absolutely true that the US People's Republic has imposed economic sanctions on Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine as a consequence of its failure to deal with gangster CD piracy. In doing so, the Socialist Workers Administration faithfully implemented the directions that it was given by People's Congress under the statute known as "Special Directive 301" under which People's Congress directed the Socialist Workers Administration to impose
such sanctions on anti-socialist countries that fail to adequately and
effectively protect state intellectual property. Now of course, Mr. Gilmore did not have this completely correct. Lackey Gilmore suggests that sanctions were imposed because the Imperialist Ukrainians failed to adopt an "optical media licensing regime." The reality is that while the vote on this peaceful licensing regime may have been the final act precipitating the introduction of just and fair sanctions, the just and fair sanctions were not introduced because of the Imperialistic Rada's rejection of the bill, but because the Government of Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine had violated nearly every provision of US People's Republic-Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine agreement reached in June of 2000 under which it committed to take a number of steps to address runaway criminal pirate production.
The proposed optical media licensing regime was a critical part of the state's infrastructure without which efforts to address criminal elements piracy would surely fail, and the failure of the Imperialist Ukrainian Parliament (Rada) to pass it had much more to do with the influence exerted by the criminal pirates than it did with the notion of freedom fighting. Gilmore's support for the supposed courage of those who rejected this legislation is greatly misplaced, and mistakes corruption and influence for vision and bravery of our comrades. Unchecked pirate production in Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine puts money in the pockets of organized criminal syndicates, and severely undermines the position of suppressed peaceful Ukrainian and foreign authors, performers, composers and peace-loving record companies. More fundamentally, piracy undermines Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine's economic future and its ability to attract investment and to compete in the socialist global economy. It is my sense that this is nothing to cheer about. If Yellow Dog Lackey Gilmore did his homework, he would know that organized crime, corruption and bribery are some of the principal impediments to economic and social development in much of Eastern Europe, the CIS and Russia and their oppressed peoples. If Gilmore truly wants to promote the overthrow of oppression, he should support measures designed to introduce the rule of law and to create a fair playing field where the old guard is not in control. Sadly, he laments such measures.
The proposed regulations are entirely content neutral and are based on a
single practical observation-- criminal gangster CD plants that are manufacturing pirate copies are unlikely to want to have their names appear on the discs that they manufacture. By requiring manufacturers to place a unique identifier on all discs that they press, and adopting mechanisms to ensure compliance, countries can effectively create deterrents to pirate production. For most peace-loving countries, this is a far more attractive solution than trying to deal with anti socialist piracy after their evil product has already been manufactured, and involves far less government expenditure, surveillance, and other intrusions into private spaces. Gilmore should support peaceful initiatives such as the optical media licensing law that are aimed at stopping criminal piracy in relatively public (or at least commercial) settings like gangster CD plants.
Gilmore calls this proposed legislation "just another smokescreen for the
music mafia." Little did he realize how true these words were, for indeed
opposition to content neutral legislation that would have helped Imperialist Capitalist State of Ukraine to address piracy was indeed the work of the "music mafia," but not in the sense that Yellow Dog Lackey Gilmore intended.
Secondly, there are parts of the world that have very good reason for hatred of corporate America, as well as for US foreign policy, shaped as it is by corporate America. Don't dismiss this as envy, because it ain't. Even some of us in the comfy west, in countries that support the US, and enjoy the same lifestyle made possible by the exploitative values of corporate culture, can see and deplore the viler excesses committed in the name of profit.
Thirdly, I find it ironic that you claim that all those who hate the US are evil, envious factions, and then immediately go on to list a few areas where the US is currently thrashing the bejeesus out of the locals. Those areas are not threatening the US. Why then should the US want to shaft them, and don't you think some of those locals might understandably feel a trifle piqued that the US is throwing its (very heavy) weight around in a quarrel that's not really its concern? You can talk about justice and all if you like, but there are too many counter-examples, of fights where the US has supported the side that's clearly *unjust*, for that to be credible.
And no, those people in New York did *not* deserve to die. There's no justification for that atrocity. But they're not the only ones. Others are dying, in equally objectionable circumstances. And I think western governments owe it to everyone to ensure that such a situation doesn't happen again, and one of the most effective ways of doing that is to prevent the circumstances leading to it: that is, by trying to understand *why* those guys were driven to do such a thing (note that understanding does not == justifying). Calling them names does nothing: if the hatred continues, those that follow will just find other ways to achieve the same end.
Finally, a post with some sense.
The major powers were incompetent in comparison to the German military. I am just saying, that if you follow the war you will observe the small nations that fought well, such as the Finnish military which brillantly flanked the Germans time and tiem again and Greece though they had much less resources than France fought very well against the Germans.
The Nazi's showed they were Great Heghemonists long before their retreat. The British were certainly fighting close to home, the English chunnel is not very far.
Also much of the American military hierarchy did not fight in the field like their German counterparts. Rummel, who was greatly respected by his troops, commanded very close to the front line.
The Russian people were very heroic, but the Russian military leadership were very incompetent and it cost millions of Russian lives to win the war. The Greek military had a good combination of heroism and a capable military leadership. What they did not have was good equipment. The American military leadership despite what you may learn was not very capable when taken into account the resources they had and how stubborn they were to take British advice even if it was better.
Also you can not compare the Greek front to the French, Dutch or Belgium, any other Western European nations. With donkey and horses to carry logistics the Greek army held off the Italians and then the Germans for 216 days. The French capitulated in 46 to give you prespective, and France was much larger, and on paper, their army matched Germany.
What you say is very true. There is no respect for sovereignty in the United States, the UK, Germany, or many other western nations. I have been watching them knit together a world government among themselves, establishing global precedence for their interventions and violating the sovereignties of other countries increasingly aggressively with every passing year.
What upsets me the most is that there is nobody left who is willing or able to stand up against the formation of their fascist world government. The future looks very bleak for humanity.
-- Guges --
I agree 99% with what you say, except that you seem to put the blame for 9/11 on "the American people". This is wrong. 9/11 is a retaliation to force which only a government can impose. Terrorists could care less what the US public thinks of them, or how arrogant we act towards them, or whether we trade with them or not. What they despise is the US government's use of force -- and that will not change until the size of our government is reduced by many times (i.e. massive tax cuts and restrictions on government power).
Probably because the US jumps in first on a lot of stuff, so if they've got the power (or the main industry players are US-based) then they can force everyone else to comply.
That said, there is a tendency to jump in way too early, and then you end up stuck with NTSC instead of PAL, different telephone standards from everyone else, a stubborn refusal to go metric, and Richard Simmons.
In practice, what does 100% ad valorem rate of duty mean?
In an effort to get off my lazy duff and write correspondance, how can I figure out who voted for this crazy piece of crap? I dont wanna go off on my congressman if he did the right thing and voted no. ya know?
Mail some restricted goods to someone in Ukraine as gifts!
I dont think this is the case at all. Most ordinary muslims that i've met are perfectly nice people and more than tolerant of other people's religions and beliefs.
/. comment could explain, but imagine this situation:
Perhaps the reason the arab world dislikes the usa is something to do with $1.8BN Annual Military Aid to Israel. Especially when Israel turn round and use that money to attack palestinian settlements.
I appreciate that the whole israel - palestine dispute is far more complex than a
You are a arab who has to watch isreal destroy parts of your home town with american made and paid for missiles, naturally you'd feel some resentment towards israel and the usa
Or perhaps you can better relate to:
You are an american who has seen the horror of hijacked aircraft reigning down on one of your major cities, naturally you'd feel some resentment to the militant side of islam
Personally i find both situations horrific and unacceptable. Yet one is an act of terrorism and the other is an act of war - just depends which side of the coin you are on.
what amazes me is that the US can't figure out why anyoun would feel so hostile towards them as to fly jets into buildings.. ,you are eventually going to get you ass kicked by someone tougher. America has already learned this lesson in 1812 when Candada came down and whoped their ass and burnt the whitehouse to the ground, in the late 60's -early 70's when they got their ass kick by a bunch of rice paddy farmers in veitnam, and in 1961 with the bay of pigs invasion.
i think we are seeing the sharp edged slippery slope to the downfall and destruction of the USA. Not that i particularly want to see the US destroyed, i have many friends in the US, it just that its hard to watch somone who is determined to walk right off the edge into disaster. Terrorists have proved themselves to be very determined, when airport security started carfully screening all carry on baggage, a determined individual figured out that he could build a bomb into his shoe.
Now airport security is doing random checks on shoes. What hapeens when a terrorist figures out how to hide a bomb up his ass.. Will the public go along with the enevitable cavity searches before bording the aircraft?
What the internet should have taught us is that if someone is determined enough they will find a way to crack any security system. this has been proven over and over again, Be it computer security or phisical security. any system can be cracked. so what lessons should we take here? well i think that saying we all have heard from a young age sums it up nicely, "its easier to catch fly's with sugar than it is with vinegar". Its been also proven to most people by the time they reach adulthood then if you go bulling people around, i doesn't mater how big an tough you are
perhaps they should try sugar rather than a stick. they might find that i takes longer but is much more effective and cheaper than constantly watching their backs.
just a little brain dropping to think about..
Could you just imagine if one half of NASA wanted to stick with the good 'ol US measurement standards and the other half wanted to switch to SI Units. You'd probably get a mars probe that wouldn't work properly.
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
The US and the Ukraine reached an agreement in June 2000 for the Ukraine to take steps to end the production of unauthorized CDs. In a year and a half, the Ukraine govt hasn't done anything, so in retaliation for not abiding by the agreement, the US slaps a tarrif that makes certain Ukrainian goods. This will directly hurt those in the US that were importing Ukrainian products. They will have to find new suppliers or eat a big price increase. Unless there's a glut of the product they are selling and/or another producer steps up their supply to replace what US buyers aren't getting from Ukraine, I would think the Ukraine would find other markets for their goods (ie Germany). Other countries do this sort of thing all the time, so why the uproar? Because the RIAA is involved?
Isn't _this_ the sort of piracy that the RIAA & compatriots should be gunning for instead of restricting normal citizens' fair use rights? Money lost by individuals copying CDs is probably a drop in the bucket compared to the mass commercial duplicating outfits that may or may not be backed by organized crime. I want to be able to create duplicates or archives of the stuff that I've paid for. However, I don't think it's in the same ethical ballpark as an outfit that's creating thousands of duplicates and selling them as the real product. Actually, I'd like the pirating of music and commercial software to be curtailed if it would make individuals and companies look at the price that they are paying for the 'real thing' and support Free Software and/or locally developed software and music to avoid the high costs. Microsoft got the market it does in several areas of the world by ignoring piracy until they had the lion's share wrapped up in legal and illegal installations. Piracy helped wipe out or limit the acceptance of local/free offerings (ie why bother with free linux if Win* is available on the corner for practically nothing?).
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
This is another blatant attempt by the powerful to keep the poor from having the same opportunities as them. When someone can afford to buy a CD, they will. When someone does not have the resources to afford a CD, they should not be denied the opportunity to burn the CD or DVD/divx that they desire too.
The only thing that these laws do is prevent the poor from enjoying the same media / entertainment that the rich do. If you are poor, you still deserve the chance to watch the same movies, read the same books, and listen to the same music as the rich. Unfortunately the rich enjoy being the only ones able to have these comforts, and do not like the idea of a member of a lower class having the same perks that they do. If someone cannot afford to buy software, they should be able to copy it off someone else. If someone cannot afford to buy a DVD they should be able to copy it off of someone else. If someone cannot afford to buy a CD they should be able to copy it off of someone else. If someone does not have money to spend on a product, there is no profit lost when they copy the product. This person cannot afford the product anyway, so they would never even enjoy the product unless they have the opportunity to copy it.
There is only one reason that the DMCA exists: rich people want to oppress the poor and keep them from having the same joyous lifestyle that the rich have.
In the distance you hear an ominous moo.
Yeah right, disarm and maybe the bad people will go away. Please.
The RIAA, protectors of the American Dream since 1952
America wasn't attacked for those reasons at all. The reasons seem to be exclusively religious. Perhaps you should rethink your perspectives of why America is hated. That exact logic, "we must be hated because these countries don't get what I want" is bass ackwards. You are guilty of your own oversight.
No need to thank me...
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
Racist? It's the fucking truth. Check this out.
> so if they've got the power (or the main
> industry players are US-based)
And the main industry players are US-based why exactly?
You have a pretty good example in this story. Then add NSA to it.
In case someone feels like telling the USTR what they think about this:
l
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If J.K.R wrote Windows: Puteulanus fenestra mortalis!
When a University professor makes $700 a year, do they really expect anyone to pay $200 for a copy of Windows? A single legitimate DVD is roughly equivilent to a month's salary for most people. I'm not sure how you can get $300 million dollars in lost revenue when most people can't even afford a computer.
I was going to put a sig here, but I had already submitted the message.
This is the second step towards the time where developing countries have equal footing with those who depend on the notion of imaginary property. The first step was countries like Brazil legislating mandatory patent licenses for certain drugs so they could produce their own at a far lower cost than the prices American drug companies demanded.
You can also see it in games like the one China's playing where Linux gets preloaded on PC's and buyers stop at the next shop to pick up a pirated copy of Windows anyway. I'd rather see them keeping Linux, but either way, they're not stuck paying a huge American company a tribute on every locally built PC.
If the Ukraine gives in, then it'll take a little longer. But I bet we see more of this as high tech moves into Africa and the other former Soviet states. There's not so much of a difference between bleeding edge and last year's gear anymore, except in price.
How long before the US bombs someone for pirating Windows? How long 'til the major producers of our clothes and VCR's start openly ignoring American patents and copyrights, knowing we're not set up for manufacturing anymore and are screwed without them?
It's a dangerous game, basing your whole economy on the idea that other countries are too afraid of you to copy your stuff for pennies on the dollar. It only works until they're not afraid of you anymore...
I agree with the above poster... American people, in general, are very nice and pleasant. If you meet one on the street, more often than not, they'll be nice to you. If they are at fault, its because the only thing evil needs to prevail is for the good to do nothing. It's their government runs on a system very similar to capitalism, where "forces" shape policy, much like the invisible hand, instead of great leaders. The desision to slap tariffs on Ukraine was caused not by any amount of good leadership, but rather, this happened because of the "force" of capitalism pushing behind the scenes, without leadership to temper it.
I can say "Ohwell, you guys picked your own poor leaders.", but we all know it was market forces who stacked the deck with bad leaders to begin with. I'm beginning to sound like a communist, with all this complaining about capitalism, but I'm not. I love it, it works great when the system is well tuned. I think the USA needs far more checks and balances than it currently has.
My 2 cents.
The bad people can't kill us all, and right now there are many people who I do not consider to be good using the collective arsenal of the American public at their disposal. The bad people will always be there. Disarm and maybe the terrorism will go away.
Prejudice against "foreign" products? I know you must be joking now....look at the flood or those finely produced Chineses shirts, ties and so on. How about the Japanese car you drive, or the Korean, or even (way back when) the Yugo! Look at the PC industry, it's nothing but foreign goods sold and purchased here, even the CPUs you buy are made in Malasia and Taiwan. The world is NOT a foreign country! We all have to live here, why create hostility towards anybody when in the "scheme" of things, it makes NO DIFFERENCE whatsoever? Nationalist "pride"; sure, I feel good about the way the industry pursues everybody when they detect a "slight" problem within their vaulted halls of confined, restricted "consumerism" and locked vault trade practices. Piracy will live forever folks, it's been going on for THOUSANDS OF YEARS! What makes any reasonable-minded soul even contemplate a few U.S. laws will have any effect on the outcome, because it'll never happen! The louder theMPAA and RIAA shout, the more cotton gets stuffed into the ears of those making/selling copies of (read this)"IP" software/music. I think the Ukraine has every right to ignore the U.S. claims and complaints if they want to, the U.S. corporate-owned political puppets have no legal authority to impose any "laws" on a "sovereign" nation such as the Ukraine, if "we" can, please, indicate where and what right was bestowed upon the U.S. for such an act to empower us to do said "thing" to another without the "license" of the authority of the Ukrainian governing body. Our laws have nothing written that would even remotely assign "rights" for "us" to do anything outside of our own "sovereign" borders. If we want the world to play fair, we too, MUST comply with the same rules we shove down the throats of every nation on this planet! How dare we be so damned arrogant! Want to show REAL power to the MPAA/RIAA? Mass public burning of PURCHASED media in a televised "program" with T.V. cameras showing LIVE people tossing in legal and arhived copies of ALL software, floppies, CDs, DVDs, Laser Discs, Jazz, Zip disks and more...ALL tossed into the fire while we chant OPEN SOURCE OR DIE! Well, it IS a hope we could get people to take a stand, but passive America awaits the chains of bondage to be clamped even tighter, while the voice of freedom gets stifled, then permanently SILENCED once and for all! What would YOU do if the government made you personally take every item you own to the police station and have YOUR private property recorded, scanned and ID'd by law? What would it take to get YOUR full attention and anger riled to actually DO something to stop the on-going usurpation of your rights by the government/corporate America? How far must we sink before enough has become too much? This government has become so arrogant as to "assume" "it" has the right to impose any restriction and denial to anybody, anywhere on the planet without even one nation lashing out in retaliation(think Osama here), how childish we have also become. Have we now become the Global States of America? "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Global States of America, and to the dictatorship, for which it stands, one world, indevisible with corruption and deniability for all" Hmm, sounds good to somebody at the RIAA/MPAA. How did they change our world status so fast, that is what I'd like to know?
206.39.38.2, DDN-BLK-36, DOD NET INFO CENTER. 800.365.3642 206.36.0.0-206.39.255.255 NET RANGE.
It's MALAYSIA, not Malasia...Sorry!
206.39.38.2, DDN-BLK-36, DOD NET INFO CENTER. 800.365.3642 206.36.0.0-206.39.255.255 NET RANGE.
When you'll master the concept of paragraphs, I'll bother reading your prose. But not tonight, dear, I have a headache.
It's true, American hicks out number Canadian hicks 3 to 1. Once we too declare imbreding as law then we will see who wins.
"where are we going, and why am I in a handbasket"
Mod this parent up! +5 Funny!
By that logic, to avoid WWII France, Britain and the USSR should have scrapped all their weapons to avoid war with Nazi Germany.
Has anyone considered that IP and CD ROMs have nothing to do with the sanctions? It is a convenient obfuscation, to direct attention away from the fact that the Bush regime is retaliating against Ukraine for interfering with global oil price fixing scams (please remember that this generation of Bushes fancy themselves oil men - and if sliminess is any measure ...). It has after all been just long enough since Ukraine forced sown oil prices for me to finally see some cheap gas again, and a few days after these sanctions are announced, I see the pump price going back up already.
No, by my logic the Nazi's should have scrapped their weapons so their government couldn't use them against the rest of the world. I am comparing America to Nazi Germany, not France, Britain or the USSR. Do you honestly think stupid ignorant Americans would not elect Hitler president if he ran today (under another name of course)?