Since when is Macromedia even spamming? I mean, I'm on their "opt in" list, and they barely send me one piece of mail a month...that's hardly spam IMHO.
Because Macromedia doesn't confirm the alleged subscriptions, they started spamming as soon as their mailinglist was large enough to be considered bulk.
Now if only the Belgian police would be so effective at arresting pedophiles...
"But there are worse crimes" is a lame excuse, you can't blame it on the police, they didn't make the law, they are just enforcing it. Continuing to break a law after you have been notified that you are breaking it is rather stupid.
Right, and I don't know of any tier 1 ISP that would be actually implement this.
Teleglobe.net does: traceroute to marketingmasters.com (209.211.253.74), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 129.125.101.252 (129.125.101.252) 0.788 ms 0.618 ms 0.6 ms
2 AR1.Groningen.surf.net (145.41.81.133) 1.008 ms 2.312 ms 0.862 ms
3 BR2.Enschede.surf.net (145.41.7.241) 4.877 ms 3.87 ms 4.026 ms
4 BR7.Amsterdam.surf.net (145.41.7.169) 7.638 ms 7.382 ms 7.328 ms
5 BR2.NewYork.surf.net (145.41.0.90) 81.094 ms 82.464 ms 84.262 ms
6 if-1-9.core1.NewYork.Teleglobe.net (207.45.196.69) 81.191 ms 79.558 ms 80.556 ms
7 if-7-1.core1.Montreal.Teleglobe.net (64.86.80.29) 86.712 ms 87.256 ms 86.903 ms
8 if-1-0-0.bb1.Montreal.Teleglobe.net (207.45.221.163) 148.554 ms 96.395 ms 107.36 ms
9 * * *
10 * * *
snip: it goes on to 30 hops.
I am glad they do, it makes a big difference in the amount of spam. DUL, RSS and ORBS take care of the small spammers.
There are lots of dangerous people in the world. Spammers count, but really they're just vermin in need of some better legislation. The people you really have to watch out for are the ones who tell you "the ends justify the means," or "we just have to take a tiny bit of your freedom to make you safer."
MAPS doesn't take anything of your freedom, if you don't like their decisions, you just don't subscribe to the RBL. If you aren't an ISP, you can choose an ISP that doesn't subscribe to the RBL.
OTOH, if there would be a law against spam, it would probably tell that pr0n is forbidden, but that big companies could spam you as much as they wanted.
To summarize: if you don't like the decisions of MAPS, start a better list yourself. If it really would be better, more ISPs would subscribe to your list and you would be more influental than MAPS.
I am probably not the only person who found it interesting that maps, by banning an IP because of a company selling software to spam, is the moral equivalent to the MPAA suing and taking down sites that host DeCSS. Do we go after the tools to do "bad things" or do we go after those who do the "bad things".
The MPAA tries to forbid everyone to connect to a site hosting DeCSS, MAPS only advises providers not to connect to netblocks hosting spamware.
A provider can choose to ignore MAPSs advice, it would be forced by law to follow the "advice" of the MPAA.
Now, spamming software is sick messed up crap, but if we subscribe to maps, then are we as bad as Jack Valenti and his pals in the entertainment industry?
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
That is the same VA Linux that sent unsolicited email with an 1MB attachment to people that couldn't even accept the offer, that offered shares for $30, shares that are traded at $13 today? <g,d&r>
You don't need to. Just block the spammer's website. This still cuts off the money - the spammer will get less, since they've been RBL'd, and if the spammer goes elsewhere, then the ISP loses their money - but not at the (unnecessary) expense of other customers.
Ehrrm, it isn't a spammer, it is a seller of spamware. If MAPS blocked the website, spammers could still reach the website, buy the spamware and spam from dialups.
MAPS seems to want to have it both ways - to the public: "Oh, we're not censoring anyone", but to M3: "Shut this site down now, or we'll punish you by blocking lots of your sites". I'm sorry, but to me, that's just terrible.
MAPS is not censoring, subscribers to MAPS have chosen not to spend their money for the transport of packets send to or from Media3.
A newspaper that doesn't put your opinion on its frontpage isn't censoring either.
In fact, bust down the doors of all their neighbors, yank those folks off their couchs and their kids away from their game consoles, and lynch them too.
Noone is lynched, it is only IP packets that aren't accepted. Free speech also implies the
right not to listen.
They're living in same appartment complex (Class C IP address range), so let's crucify everyone in the surrounding area, so that the apt complex managers who tolerated the porographers will lose money and noone will move back in.
Why do want to force me to visit someone that chose to live in a slump? I don't deny them the right to live there, but I have no obligation to go there.
ORBS could stop. They do not have to test this system. The only argument they have for testing it is the belief that it could somehow magically turn into an open relay.
Er, that system crashes on certain headers, the admin is too clueless to upgrade the system. If a h4x0r would get a grudge against the admin (or the company that employs him), that box would crash every 5 minutes. What will our "genius" admin do? I guess he will install another mail server pretty fast. Knowing his past actions that new server will be an open relay, perhaps even an anonymizing open relay. No magic necessary.
Re:Additional Background and Perspectives
on
MAPS vs. ORBS
·
· Score: 1
As another post pointed out here the situation is clarified and apologies are given and accepted all around.
I am afraid an article posted on June 25 won't be relevant to the current situation. Unfortunately, both ORBS's homepage and the following quote from a recent article by Paul Vixie in news.admin.net-abuse.email show that the situation has not clarified.
Your continued defense of Alan's paranoid psychotic actions is just bizarre.
Please look closely at the headers before you assume that I was the "Anonymous" Coward to whom Paul responded.
Sometimes I need to pay higher prices in exchange for the ability to have that hard drive on my desk in 18 hours. If that larger company didn't want to be indexed by pricewatch, I would be screwed.
On the other hand, that larger company then wouldn't have you as a costumer.A company that offer special services will not mind to be compared to other companies, their price may be higher, but they offer that extra service.
Like about 50,000 legitimate, non-spamming businesses, one of the projects I work on uses Ibill.
Would you mind telling us the name of that "legitimate, non-spamming business"? As far as my mailbox is concerned all clients of iBill are pr0n sites that claim their e-mail isn't spam. You're like someone setting up a 5-star hotel in a slum and then complaining that the tourist office tells people that your hotel is located in a slum.
But going after third parties who do business with spammers is going too far.
I disagree, MAPS isn't going after them, MAPS just tells that they do business with spammers. That may (and does) mean that a lot of people don't want those businesses to use their equipment.
is there an alternative way to contact your domain, mr. net.nazi?
Sure, you can use snail-mail or the telephone system.
How about your users -
They have a postal address and a telephone too. You have a right to speak freely, but we are under no obligation to pay for listening to you, in fact we may choose to ignore you any time we wish.
did you give them a say?
Yes, and they like it, in fact I also use MAPS' DUL and ORBS to block even more spam.
That is not completely true, the Realtime Blackhole List doesn't focus on open relays, see their reasons for listing. Perhaps you are confusing them with the Relay Spam Stopper (also operated by the Mail Abuse Prevention System) or ORBS which is far more controversial because it will test mail servers even before they have been used to spam through (OTOH ORBS is more efficient in stopping spam). To complete the set of links, the Dial-up User List lists modem banks (and also machine that get their IP via DHCP).
Which came first, the spammer or the open relay with which the slimy bastard sent out 10,000 messages?
Once upon a time almost every mail server on the Internet was an open relay (for a good reason, e-mail was quite unreliable; giving one's e-mail to a well connected server if one could not connect to the recipient's server was very helpful).
The first spams were (depending on your point of view) chain letters or Usenet spam. Open relays were first mentioned as a problem in March 1997, years later. See Keith Lynch's spam timeline.
Spammers only started to use open relays because other methods of delivering their junk were stopped by means of UDP's (Usenet Death Penalty) and the blocking of spamhausen.
I'm not clear on why
[companies] should have less [rights than people].
While it may be reasonable to assume that most people will react with a sense of morality, one can not assume that in the case of companies. They are not immoral, but many of them are amoral, their main (or even only) goal is to maximize profit.
How do you propose to deny rights to corporations without denying rights to the individuals who comprise the corporation?
By allowing certain rights only when exercized as a private person. I wouldn't care if you would have cockroaches in your kitchen at home, yet I would mind if you had them in your restaurant kitchen. I wouldn't mind if you (as a private person) would store my e-mail address and send me an e-mail. I do care if you (as a company) would do it: I don't like spam.
Compliance with the standards is monitored by private organizations like the Bet ter Business Bureau Online, TRUSTe, or the American Arbitration Association, whi ch can then forward complaints to the Federal Trade Commission after their own i nvestigations. But will they? "In all practicality, that is never going to happe n," Reidenberg says. That is an extremely unlikely scenario." Having TRUSTe guard ones privacy would be ridiculous. If I see a TRUSTe logo on a site, I doublecheck I have cookies/javascript turned off.
Things like: personal information collected to complete a transaction shall not be sold or otherwise given away or used for any purpose other than to do the transaction in question unless specifically agreed to by the person giving such information. That is important if one does want to be informed about a delay in the shipment of (say) gizmo X, and one does not want to be subscribed to the mailing list announcing all those "wonderfull" gadgets the same company produces.
As much as you have a "right" not to have the government search your home without a warrant, big corps have a right to record the information that is generated when people use there servers. There is no law of nature that forces us to give companies more rights than people.
Freedom of speech and "Privacy rights" don't work together. You can have one, or you can have the other. But not both. One can, as soon as one recognizes that companies don't need to have the same rights as people.
Re:Why these combinations?
on
Linux Mergers?
·
· Score: 1
I suspect RedHat and SuSE will end up ruling the world, leaving also-rans like Slackware and LinuxOne in the dust.
According to the Linux counter Slackware is used by 28% of the Linux users. Slackware asks to register in one of start-up e-mails, but it is still a big market share.
It's nice to see the government is trying to take action against SPAM by empowering the citizens!
Please be carefull with your CapsLock key. SPAM is a trademark of Hormel Foods. They kindly allow the use of "spam" for unsolicited bulk e-mail and excessive multiposting to Usenet. Note:The website of Hormel seems to be down at the moment.
Slashdot Mirror
Ermm, that is how the Internet works, or do really think that backbone providers don't charge for bandwidth?
Peacefire wasn't caught in the cross fire, it moved into an IP range that was already blocked.
A quick glance at Steve Linfords www.spamhaus.org and Sapient Fridges Spamware vendor list gave me:
209.211.253.68 www.extractor-pro98.com
209.211.253.69 www.list-sorcerer.com
209.211.253.70 www.massmailer.com
209.211.253.71 www.bulkemailpeople.com
209.211.253.73 www.e-mailblaster.com
209.211.253.74 www.marketingmasters.com
209.211.253.84 www.bulkers.net
209.211.253.88 www.bulkbarn.com
209.211.253.89 www.web-promotions.com
209.211.253.139 www.firstlinesoft.com
209.211.253.169 www.peacefire.org
209.211.253.248 www.bulk-isp.com / www.bulk-isp.net etcetera.
Not really a nice region, is it?
Because Macromedia doesn't confirm the alleged subscriptions, they started spamming as soon as their mailinglist was large enough to be considered bulk.
I hope you do realize the Internet is bigger than the World Wide Wait.
"But there are worse crimes" is a lame excuse, you can't blame it on the police, they didn't make the law, they are just enforcing it. Continuing to break a law after you have been notified that you are breaking it is rather stupid.
By the way, I also didn't find the possibility to tell them not to drop garbage in my backyard, not to break into my house, or not to kill me.
Teleglobe.net does:
traceroute to marketingmasters.com (209.211.253.74), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 129.125.101.252 (129.125.101.252) 0.788 ms 0.618 ms 0.6 ms
2 AR1.Groningen.surf.net (145.41.81.133) 1.008 ms 2.312 ms 0.862 ms
3 BR2.Enschede.surf.net (145.41.7.241) 4.877 ms 3.87 ms 4.026 ms
4 BR7.Amsterdam.surf.net (145.41.7.169) 7.638 ms 7.382 ms 7.328 ms
5 BR2.NewYork.surf.net (145.41.0.90) 81.094 ms 82.464 ms 84.262 ms
6 if-1-9.core1.NewYork.Teleglobe.net (207.45.196.69) 81.191 ms 79.558 ms 80.556 ms
7 if-7-1.core1.Montreal.Teleglobe.net (64.86.80.29) 86.712 ms 87.256 ms 86.903 ms
8 if-1-0-0.bb1.Montreal.Teleglobe.net (207.45.221.163) 148.554 ms 96.395 ms 107.36 ms
9 * * *
10 * * *
snip: it goes on to 30 hops.
I am glad they do, it makes a big difference in the amount of spam. DUL, RSS and ORBS take care of the small spammers.
MAPS doesn't take anything of your freedom, if you don't like their decisions, you just don't subscribe to the RBL. If you aren't an ISP, you can choose an ISP that doesn't subscribe to the RBL.
OTOH, if there would be a law against spam, it would probably tell that pr0n is forbidden, but that big companies could spam you as much as they wanted.
To summarize: if you don't like the decisions of MAPS, start a better list yourself. If it really would be better, more ISPs would subscribe to your list and you would be more influental than MAPS.
The MPAA tries to forbid everyone to connect to a site hosting DeCSS, MAPS only advises providers not to connect to netblocks hosting spamware. A provider can choose to ignore MAPSs advice, it would be forced by law to follow the "advice" of the MPAA.
Now, spamming software is sick messed up crap, but if we subscribe to maps, then are we as bad as Jack Valenti and his pals in the entertainment industry?
Chris DiBona
VA Linux Systems
That is the same VA Linux that sent unsolicited email with an 1MB attachment to people that couldn't even accept the offer, that offered shares for $30, shares that are traded at $13 today? <g,d&r>
Ehrrm, it isn't a spammer, it is a seller of spamware. If MAPS blocked the website, spammers could still reach the website, buy the spamware and spam from dialups.
MAPS seems to want to have it both ways - to the public: "Oh, we're not censoring anyone", but to M3: "Shut this site down now, or we'll punish you by blocking lots of your sites". I'm sorry, but to me, that's just terrible.
MAPS is not censoring, subscribers to MAPS have chosen not to spend their money for the transport of packets send to or from Media3.
A newspaper that doesn't put your opinion on its frontpage isn't censoring either.
Noone is lynched, it is only IP packets that aren't accepted. Free speech also implies the right not to listen.
They're living in same appartment complex (Class C IP address range), so let's crucify everyone in the surrounding area, so that the apt complex managers who tolerated the porographers will lose money and noone will move back in.
Why do want to force me to visit someone that chose to live in a slump? I don't deny them the right to live there, but I have no obligation to go there.
Er, that system crashes on certain headers, the admin is too clueless to upgrade the system. If a h4x0r would get a grudge against the admin (or the company that employs him), that box would crash every 5 minutes. What will our "genius" admin do? I guess he will install another mail server pretty fast. Knowing his past actions that new server will be an open relay, perhaps even an anonymizing open relay. No magic necessary.
I am afraid an article posted on June 25 won't be relevant to the current situation. Unfortunately, both ORBS's homepage and the following quote from a recent article by Paul Vixie in news.admin.net-abuse.email show that the situation has not clarified.
Please look closely at the headers before you assume that I was the "Anonymous" Coward to whom Paul responded.
You're like someone setting up a 5-star hotel in a slum and then complaining that the tourist office tells people that your hotel is located in a slum. I disagree, MAPS isn't going after them, MAPS just tells that they do business with spammers. That may (and does) mean that a lot of people don't want those businesses to use their equipment.
The first spams were (depending on your point of view) chain letters or Usenet spam. Open relays were first mentioned as a problem in March 1997, years later. See Keith Lynch's spam timeline.
Spammers only started to use open relays because other methods of delivering their junk were stopped by means of UDP's (Usenet Death Penalty) and the blocking of spamhausen.
I wouldn't care if you would have cockroaches in your kitchen at home, yet I would mind if you had them in your restaurant kitchen.
I wouldn't mind if you (as a private person) would store my e-mail address and send me an e-mail. I do care if you (as a company) would do it: I don't like spam.
Compliance with the standards is monitored by private organizations like the Bet ter Business Bureau Online, TRUSTe, or the American Arbitration Association, whi ch can then forward complaints to the Federal Trade Commission after their own i nvestigations. But will they? "In all practicality, that is never going to happe n," Reidenberg says. That is an extremely unlikely scenario."
Having TRUSTe guard ones privacy would be ridiculous. If I see a TRUSTe logo on a site, I doublecheck I have cookies/javascript turned off.
Things like: personal information collected to complete a transaction shall not be sold or otherwise given away or used for any purpose other than to do the transaction in question unless specifically agreed to by the person giving such information.
That is important if one does want to be informed about a delay in the shipment of (say) gizmo X, and one does not want to be subscribed to the mailing list announcing all those "wonderfull" gadgets the same company produces.
There is no law of nature that forces us to give companies more rights than people.
Freedom of speech and "Privacy rights" don't work together. You can have one, or you can have the other. But not both.
One can, as soon as one recognizes that companies don't need to have the same rights as people.
According to the Linux counter Slackware is used by 28% of the Linux users.
Slackware asks to register in one of start-up e-mails, but it is still a big market share.
Please be carefull with your CapsLock key. SPAM is a trademark of Hormel Foods. They kindly allow the use of "spam" for unsolicited bulk e-mail and excessive multiposting to Usenet.
Note:The website of Hormel seems to be down at the moment.