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Linux Mergers?
flupke asks: "In
this article at ZDNet
one can read about Linux consolidations. They provide several possible schemes such as: Caldera & SuSE, LinuxCare and O'Reilly, SCO and Turbo Linux, Compaq and MandrakeSoft. I don't think it's very accurate, but I'd like to have Slashdot readers on this subject because one day, it will happen ..."
I don't want to start a flame ware here, but how come Debian never gets any credit. They run a tight ship over there, and one could put up an argument that as far as server configurations go they are one of the best. Besides doing the initial install, keeping updated with dselect is as easy as a couple commands.
Now apply that to the mergers, you have Company A who wants to sell servers with linux. Get Debian worked out and after that point the cost to keep everything updated and security up to snuff is relativly low. Compaq would be much better off with such a company, or IBM or whoever else ZDNet wants to make up a story about.
If Mandrake were to merge with Compaq, a major laptop company, we could finally see some good features in Linux for laptops (hibernation is a nice thought, as is USB). This is of course all speculation, but it's a nice thought. With IBM making a Linux thinkpad recently, things may be moving forward in portable computing at last :)
One distro to rule them all, and in the darkenss bind them.
Yes, he will buy them all. He will buy them all.
Resistance is futile. Innovation is inevitable. You will be embraced and extended.
Matthew Miller,
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
...there'll be just one Linux distribution... "CalSEdrakehatbianel".
__
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
I remember hearing about the drifting of the Linux's(sp?) and how software will soon no longer be compatable with all flavors. This could help cure that. But I doubt it.
This is just a rant.
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If my facts are wrong then tell me. I don't mind.
Does anyone really think they would invoke questioning of their integrity by aligning themselves with a particular OS?
O'reilly: the religious texts of agnostic geeks the wolrd over
Predicting this stuff requires the kind of black voodoo magic normally found only in SCSI drivers, and I don't think economists, financial analysts or journalists have that sort of magic. Some of them will consolidate, sure, but we certainly can't tell now!
But specifics aside, my personal theory says none of them will be primarily in the distribution business in a few years time, having pared back operations to support and VAR. Several well-informed people happen to think they will just die off, seeing all of them as an intermediary step to a more idealistic system.
But what happens when and if they do consolidate? Do we get the 'one-size-fits-all' distribution that is good for nothing? Do we get competing, mutually 'incompatible' distributions from the few remaining players? Or does everybody still play reasonably nicely as they have in the past?
.sig: Now legally binding!
...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Debian a non-profit org? Non-profits aren't bought out by corporations too often, heh!
Remember, Linus has a Vaio :)
I'm sure the market will consolidate -- that's inevitable -- but probably not like this. Why, for instance, Caldera and SuSE? SuSE is way too cool for a bunch of ex-Novell losers like Caldera. I suspect RedHat and SuSE will end up ruling the world, leaving also-rans like Slackware and LinuxOne in the dust. And I hope one of them doesn't buy the other, because I'd rather have them competing. RedHat as the sole dominant commercial distro would be just as bad as Micros~1.
Let's start with Corel, R.I.P. 2000 AD.
Good thing Borland/Inprise cast off the lead weight of that yoke before being dragged down by them - we corporate developers, we lucky few, shall shout and pray that we were here on Corel's Death Day, to sally forth with our new IDE and crank out those apps to fight back the Wintel who would take them from us.
Will in Seattle
Before you post something, go and search linuxtoday and lwn.net/daily for it. And if it was at either one two weeks ago maybe you shouldn't post it... /. for fresh news... this is about as stale as I've ever seen...)
~luge(I come to
IAAL,BIANLY
To paraphrase the immortal Glorius Meept:
All the divided Linux factions should combine to create one big divided Linux faction !!!
-- You see, there would be these conclusions that you could jump to
I heard a rumor on ZDNet that Linux Thorvaldees, author of Red Hat Linux 6.1 and Richard Strawlmann, designer of the eMacs word-processor were teaming up to develop a new e-commerce platform using the popular Linux operating system. No word yet on whether it will run on Windows 2000, but the buzz in the IT industry is hot.
:)" Another industry luminary, Leary Wall, designer of PEARL, a method for translating programs written in one language to another, offered the comment that "I think it's a great oppert..." before he was surrounded by a hoarde of frothing, raving madmen chanting shouts of "[~A-z**~^38937][!A _$]-o~!" and "There's more than one way to do it!". At this point, a decision was made to end the interview.
Rob Milda, creator of the popular SlashDot.com web site, offering "News for Nerds" was quoted as saying "itll bee SWEET!
"Patience is a virtue, afforded those with nothing better to do." - I don't remember
I'm running Mandrake 7 on a Compaq Presario as I type this. This sounds like a good idea, this box in its original Win95 state was easy to use and helped me learn about Linux, even though now it's Linux only. If Compaq made laptops or web appliances with Mandrake's help they could compete with AOL/Gateway and help new users learn about computers w/o having to pay the Microsoft tax. I still wish Compaq shipped real windows cd's with this thing instead of the stupid quick restore disk, but that's not a problem anymore.
I'm curious why Red Hat doesn't look at Corel. Instant office suite, and one less competitor.
They're strong enough by themselves. Note that eg. IBM officially supports RedHat Linux and certifies hardware for RedHat compliance.
Note that there is the big thing called package management: there is RPM, deb, and "anything else". It's unlikely that marriages over package management lines can be successfull, because any company that has invested in some distribution has developed process for building some type of package, and there are some very real differences between those.
Marriages of hardware vendor, VAR, distro builder, software company, etc. are a different thing, of course. Eg. CompaQ probably hasn't invested much into any one package management system or knowhow in one of those, so they're free to choose which distro builder to buy, and so on. Still note that IBM doesn't support and doesn't have any plans to support any distribution using deb packages. They can send You RPMs but not debs. And they have Lotus. So perhaps CompaQ will go for Corel to get a distro that is incompatible with anything IBM supports, and office software in the bundle. But then there would be Debian ties in the package, which would make some things harder.
They're strong enough by themselves. Note that eg. IBM officially supports RedHat Linux and certifies hardware for RedHat compliance
......
Given the history of IBM in the PC market during the last two decades, why doesn't Red Hat swallow up the OS owning runt Microsoft division ? (MICROS~1 or MICROS~2 ?). It will serve to tie up a lot of loose ends, and give IBM some ersatz revenge into the bargain. they can make Windoze Open Source, and publish it in paper form so we can all burn a copy each.
We can always dream
Stephen Hawking has written another book. It's about time as well.
As soon as we have hardware and system vendors who start telling the community the course x distro will take in regards to hardware support and development, we will have lost the true value of an Open Source operating system. Aa fas as I'm concerned, they get their value from the outstanding configurability not their cookie-cutter "compatibility" as Compaq, ect.. would like us to swallow.
Vendors (both distro and hardware) should work in support of each other but not for each other.
This is a serious question. A linux distro doesn't exactly own a lot of IP. The value is in:
1) the reputation in the community.
2) the qa work done in the distro.
3) the big names associated with the distro.
So if Compaq were to hire Alan Cox and several other big names, plus a solid QA team, then GPL parts of Tru64Unix and announce a coherent linux plan - they would have a better deal than if they bought mandrake or red hat.
Am I wrong here?
--Shoeboy
(former microserf)
The article makes some very good points, but doesn't go into detail about the fundamentals of M&A, and how they would apply in this case. No doubt there will be consolidation in the Linux market.
Here are four key points for mergers:
1 Size Matters
The hardest mergers are those of companies of equal size. These mergers require both companies to grow by 100%, and usually outgrow lots of internal processes. In addition, there's a lot of duplication of functionality within the new company that needs to be resolved (and that's painful).
How does this apply to Linux companies?
Some of the companies out there are very much home grown, and use home grown processes meant to get them through startup phase without large expenditures (read: they hacked something together). If two such companies merge, they are in trouble, and they will be absorbed by a third company later.
2 Physical locality matters
The article points this out. If you have two units that have their engineering staffs in the same location that's a lot easier to get them to work together and communicate. On the other hand, two former competitors separated by a continent could end up continuing their competition internally, especially if management doesn't lead (this is commonplace).
3 Nitch Functionality/Coverage
Again, the article mentioned this, and it's most easily understood- the smaller the duplication the easier the merger. The Red Hat/Cygnus deal looks good from this perpsective. This means, however, that two linux companies that have divergent source code bases are going to have a hard time. Watch for this as the deals come together.
4 Cultural Fit
On the surface, people who work in the OS world have some basic philosophies in common. But that's not enough by itself. Other issues include coding and reviewing style, customer support paths, patch philosophy, functionality vs. reliability (when do you release?). How many *nixes are out there because of disagreements amongst smart people?
Anyway, just some thoughts...
A merger like the ones suggested would create a company with twice the commercial linux market potential.
What's two times zero again?
I hope Turbo Linux and Red Hat never merge.
I'd be too embarrassed to run anything called Turbo Hat.
Answer: Canadian Tax Law
This article reminds me of a game that my friends and I used to play in highschool: match the actor to the X-man character for the movie that's been brewing since (at least) '84. All meaningless speculation with no real substance.
It is nice to say that two companies have complementary talents. This says nothing about their holdings, culture, and philosophy. What's this big reliance on geographical location? For instance:
Caldera & SuSE: Severely different philosophies about how money should be earned, otherwise SuSE would be a bigger money-maker. Caldera would absorb SuSE, rip the pieces the wanted out of it and ditch the rest, and all of SuSE's core talent would probably walk.
LinuxCare & O'Reilly: If O'Reilly wanted to go into the Technical Service industry, why LinuxCare? That would be a waste of a grand majority of their knowledge base. Better to hit someone like Teletech with a partnership. This sounds like "pick a big-name TechServ company, hey, this one looks good..."
Hooking both SCO and Compaq up with a Linux company makes very little sense since both of them have gone out of their way to come up with something pointedly different from the standard Unix. I can't imagine them creating a Linux that is that similar to (or compatible with) other's offerings.
I can't claim to be an expert on this mostly because I'm just guessing. Then again, so is Mr. Leibovitch.
Mythological Beast
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
Very easy for the author to come up with a couple of "potential mergers", however, nothing new and interesting.
One of the most interesting companies will be Trolltech. With the success of KDE and a probable success of a Qt-powered Kylix, commercial use of Qt will boom in a way that no one yet can imagine. This beeing good or bad, who knows, but it will be a fact.
Debian will probably stay.. well. debian (open, free). It will probably also stay the base for people using linux to power web servers and developement.
Caldera will probbaly get bought out by a hardware company (i.e. compaq, ibm. or anyone else)
Between SuSE, Mandrake, Redhat, two will probably merge and try to do everything, while one will will become a dominate desktop distro.
yea, its speculation, yea im probably wronge, but then..... lets just wait and see.
what ever happpens, lets hope that theres always at least three distros to compete against each other.
"I mean, All you can definately say about a fellow who thinks he's a poached egg, is; He's in the minority." James Burke
one day, it will happen ...
What do you mean, "one day"? Red Hat and Cygnus, arguably the epitomes of free software companies, have already merged. Why ask about something in the hypothetical when you have a particular example? Or is the submitter baiting for "evil capitalist" responses?
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
M&A activity in the United States and elsewhere is pitting competition against efficiency. Only a perfectly competitive market is perfectly efficient. And yet competition requires duplication which is inefficient. Which is more important, competition or efficiency?
If we compare the "open source companies" we find a fundamental difference between two types of companies: The ones, like Red Hat, that were there at the very beginning of the Linux thing and the others, like Corel, which came later on. A look at Corel Linux is very interesting in this context: they try to supply a distribution for J. Random User. The interesting part is, that they do this with their old-style marketing tactics applied. They use the advantage of a technically excellent OS and hide it under their Windows-like modified KDE. What they are trying to do is establishing a brand name. They are selling a better Windows from Corel based on Linux. That's how the commercial software world works, but I don't think that works for Linux. The result is the thing with the stocks (I'm really not an expert with that stock things; I prefer stacks :-).
So what are these companies now trying to do? Well, as you might have already guessed, they once more try to apply their old-style marketing tactics. And that brings us to the topic. Consolidation is good for getting big, for making more money in less time, for branding and so on. But I don't think that consolidation is *that* good. Even in traditional, non-open-source economics. I think it fails in the long run.
The real question here is: What does it bring us hackers, geeks and users? Does this provide us with new Linux-preinstalled toys or is it just a big bloating up of open source companies? I think it won't really help them. It didn't work that well in closed source world, why should it work in a new world with "open source" stamped on a retail package of a commercial Linux distribution? Companies are trying to get big in open source world. One example is the RHCE of Red Hat. There are better ways of (unified) certification programmes. So, RHCE is nothing more than a business strategy, a method to establish a "brand name".
So, what is left if they all fail? Well, Linux will be there. Free software will be there. And we. Let them play their marketing games. Use their products if you just need one of them and don't care about all the other things. Just keep an open eye, so that they don't walk away with all our free software.
In the meantime, let's concentrate on real things, use Debian and all the other *real* free things and have a good time hacking. Companies come and go. What lasts is freedom. Raffael Stocker
I personally can not wait for the Mandrake Infomagic Caldera Redhat Openbsd Slackware Openlinux Freebsd Transmetta merger... heh.. that'll be a good one.. yup.. the MICROSOFT linux distro will 0wn j00! ;) Bah.. Are free software groups turning into the very corporate image that they have shuned from the beginning? FSF people don't merge... we think of a GNU way and code-share... bah.. flame on..
Price, Quality, Time. Pick none. What, you thought you had a choice?
That could lead to a large class action law suit. Members of the wine development team would auctually read the source code which in all probality cause there brains to explode.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
I really don't see what Mandrake has to offer as a laptop company. All the distros have laptop issues, although you can get most distros on most laptops. The two biggest issues are X and sound. pcmcia works fine, the only issue is people compiling there first kernel might not realize that pcmcia has to be recompiled. For supported hardware it is plug and play. Any propietary pcmcia upgrade cards like dvd players just need to have drivers written for them, which isn't that hard for a development team with specs. You can easily tune any distros install for a particular line of laptops. Honestly I think Slackware would be perfect if Compaq or IMB gave the boys at linuxmafia.com a hand with libslacktool and some pretty X utils for the newbies. And contrary to popular belief X is great in Slack.
Any distro would be good, and with the market elovling I can definatly see multi distro and even FreeBSD laptops. People want choices, the current and emerging linux laptop market will definatly want choices.
--- Justin Dearing http://www.justaprogrammer.net/ We're just programmers.
There is another company out there who buys up software companies and integrates them into their own...
Go you Huskies.
I don't really mind what the company calls itself. I'm mostly concerned with what they are going to do with my money to support Linux. I've been getting mailings from weasel companies trying to sell me Linux stuff. I can't tell what these companies are doing for the code. And won't buy from them.
The important thing is companies keep working to make Linux better as well as profit from it. If they are not supporting GNU software then they are just making money off other peoples work rather than contributing to it.
My money is going to the companies that further free software. That's the service I want and will continue to pay for regardless of mergers.
--
Cheers Andrew
Realy, what is the value of choosing beetwen a RedHat, a Mandrake, a debian or a slackware?
What does the user get in a certain distro that linux doesn't offer anyway. A magic bash script that will get his wonder soundcard beeping right out of the box ? Are there any relevant innovation beetween them ?
For how long does a linux user stay faithful to his choosen type of distribution, pkg, tgz,rpm or whatever he feels better ?
He will corrupt it anyaway sooner or later, by upgrading or evenn compiling source code, fixing the init scripts for the oerfect suite of their particular needs
I think the desirable linux user doesn't know much about what's the distro of his needs, but he feels free to modifying, mixing and overlapping different visions of what linux should be.
Don't get me wrong, a good distro is a kick in the ass to start the designing of our own system, responding to one's specific needs, but is not the end of the story. Linux installs are more permanent than windows, meaning that one can keep a linux install working for more than a year, while a windows install will such a load of problems that most of people will prefer reinstallin it.
By the that time a regular desktop linux system will be os transfigurated thar hardly will correspond to his origin, leaving the question of what system are you running unanswered, except an humble and true reply that it's linux, somekind of it anyway,
So will those entities merge with one another, creating mainstream liunxes ? Probably they will, but a new load of independent distros will follow, for reasons such as "I don't like this default window manager"
Debian and slackware will stay, there will be a distro focusing in the US, another one on Europe, and a lot of them targeting all the other countries adn languages. Guess what, they all be linux after all
Maybe because Red Hat is open source only, and Corel doesn't really do open source, and who knows how Corel's products might be encumbered.
I, too, usually balk when I see the Compaq logo on a product. I must admit, though, the Armada 1700 kicks a good chunk of arse. Good battery life (6-8 hours on two batteries), CD-ROM was built in so it was still available even with two batteries in the machine, piece-of-cake X and sound setup, PCMCIA is easy, supports the framebuffer stuff, moderately fast (it's older stuff, P2-266 and up), big beautiful screen (14.1" I think :), flawless APM handling (suspend and hiberation worked perfectly, even *gasp* in 'doze in most cases ;), and a trackpad (matter of taste on that though). I didn't find it *too* ugly, either. There's that damned taste again. Mine have certainly never been used as a reference :)
Read my stuff.
With a hardware vendor, more specifically Compaq. Word Perfect for Linux already runs on RedHat, but with Compaq's acquisition of Digital, this would be perfect for Alpha hardware:
"Come to Compaq for your small business/legal/research/government needs! Get a super-fast Alpha server and Compaq PCs, all running the same OS, customized, configured and supported by a company you trust! It's your total small business/legal/research/government solution!"
By developing Corel Office (it's more than just Word Perfect) as a "total solution," Compaq would have the opportunity to compete with the IBM/Lotus setup. Think how easy the support would be at the IT end: everything looks shiny and bright (KDE, WordPerfect 9, Netscape 6), but underneath that, the IT people know it's really just Linux, GNU, XFree86, Mozilla and probably IMAP/SMTP.
We've all tested WP 8 for Linux (used to be a free download), you know it's no different than fscking Word or StarOffice, really. Tons of legal, government and research (like mine) offices still use the MS version, so what ties them to Windows once Compaq slaps their seal of approval on it? The other IT people where I work LOVE Compaq, and they'd jump at it.
-jpowers
-jpowers
bbspot is a fake news site, kinda like The Onion. Check your sources.
Karma: Dyn-o-mite!(mostly affected by Jimmy Walker reading your comments)
Well.. Letz look at it this way... Every linux distro has its own ups and downs.. such as Redhat is incomplete bloatware.... but can still do somthing becuz of the amout of manuals made for it. Suse.. probly being the best doesnt have very much support directly for it. Frankly myself I cant see everybody merging into one could being a good idea. Ppl generally chose a specific linux distro for its qualities that they PERSONALLY like. Not due to demand or whatever ppl say is better. If everybody merges togeather.. well then.. that could be very bad. Cuz then there could be arguments.. and the basic fundementals of the way the linux commmunity should be could change. They could then all decided togeather to become a microsoft type corperation with only a better o/s. Frankly.. I hate microsoft... and I think I would rather run the Mac Platform.
Umm...redhat is as opensource as corel linux, if you want true free go get Debian...
This is facinating. Moderators are being fooled by these signal 11 impostors into moderating up posts that, had they been from the real signal 11, would be just as lame and off-topic -- but would be moderated up just the same because of signal 11. When they realize the post is by one of the signal 11 copycats, they moderate it down.
Hmm... wouldn't have thought moderation points should be awarded or subtracted based on who the poster is?
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
Off the top of my head, the only really non-free package that is distributed by Redhat is Netscape, but a case can be made for it being more free than any piece in Corel's suite. I would tend to agree with you that Debian is more free than Redhat, but that doesn't mean Redhat isn't free enough for those who care about freedom.
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
Yes, that would be an infringement of trademark, since I just copyrighted it. You can go for SmellyCat Linux, though. That is, if the authors of "Friends" haven't trademarked that as well...
Information wants to be beer, or something like that.
bbspot is a fake news site, kinda like The Onion. Check your sources.
Duh! You mean stories like "AMD introduces Moron processor" and "Overclocking causes rift in space-time" are not true?
From my viewpoint, the Inprise/Borland share prices have been slowly creeping up, faster than the rest of the tech sector has. One just has to be patient.
And they have some really cool IDE stuff for Linux which was posted on recently. I know no serious Linux Guru will use it, but those of us in the corporate mudpit are really looking forward to it.
It's either code in Windows or code in Linux - which would you prefer?
Will in Seattle
IBM is always buying other companies and with them jumping into Linux, I really expected them to buyout some one. Of course, I don't see any Linux company in particular that would make sense for IBM to purchase. Of course, making sense to me isn't a requirement for IBM....
SCO may be a good target for IBM. IBM has already bought their other Monterey partnet (Sequent) and IBM has track record of buying their partners.
The day that Alan Cox goes to work for Compaq is the day I suck out my own beard with a straw.
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j