But by using your logic we could lock up just about every suit from Lamborghini, Ferrari, De Tomaso, and Pagani because A. Every single car they make is created with first and foremost with breaking every known speed limit in mind and B. Their cars are responsible for more deaths than all the guns Beretta as manufactured.
Wrong example: Lord only knows how many people is killed by *any kind* of cars. Speed limit is breaked even by the cheapest car nowadays;-). And no, I don't want to remove videos of these cars. I want to remove (using your analogy) those that, for instance as occurred in Italy, has filmed a race in the freeway driving at 160mph. Only those, not *all*. Can you understand that?
So, in your logic, if as blogadmin of InfiniteInjury.org I meet you in the street and smash my hand on your face while filming you, and publish such "act", you don't post a complaint to youtube because you are against censorship?
This is ridiculous: it's not censorship. It's something *wrong*, like filming someone that is hit by a car in the street. Or you are telling me that it's in your right to use the car to hit people, and so it's censorship to take away the video? It's insane.
Since kids were underage, italian laws, for this kind of activity, prescribes that they have to work for some non-profit organizations for a limited period of time. That's it. Thst was part of a different legal process from Google's one.
Problem with the two monts period is that many people in italy is not so "computer oriented" and they were believing to have notified properly the request, when instead was not.
I am italian, and I live in Italy. And I personally know the president of the association who has opened the warrant against google, vividown (http://www.vividown.org/), and more than anyone else here I know the case, as I can read (I am not a vividown affilate though, but I am friend of some Down's people).
Vividown is an association that takes cares of people affected by Down's syndrome, for anything starting from medical care to relatives support and also legal counseling in various issues.
Vividown has sued Google for only one very basic reason: Google video (at the time, 2006, YouTube was not part of Google Inc) has retained the infamous video of childs that beats up a Down's for *two months*, even if Vividown and other people, mostly relatives of Down's child, has specifically requested to delete it from the Google database multiple times.
THIS IS THE ONLY REASON. That video was seen by tens of thousands people, thanks to the attention of local newspapers, like http://www.corriere.it. And for sure, many of those viewers laugh at that and they dream to beat up them too a Down's child. Many people was outraged of that, and vividown has taken the legal action for this reason. NO internet censorship or whatsoever.
You can read (in italian) the official word from vividown (sorry, in italian) here: http://www.vividown.org/news/Cominicato%20Stampa%20Vivi%20Down%20CI.pdf.
Also, no arrest were made. In Italy, thanks God, not all criminal charges results automatically in jail time. Not only that: even if the case will close in a negative way for Google, the interested people will *not* going to jail anyway, since the resulting (if any) jail time will fall below the minimum required for actual liberty restriction indictement.
And also, vividown do *not want* that Google people go to jail. This has to be understood clearly: IT IS NOT the association desire to censor Google or put a blanket on internet. Vividown want only to avoid that such abuse is repeated again, and that any people/organization has the needed attention to these issues.
In Italy, but I assume in many other places, Down's people is considered inferior, and openly discriminated. Please don't do in internet also!
Yes, the original post was basically vaporware, and "questionable" in origin in the sense that who has written it (http://www.beppegrillo.it/) has a personal interest to make things worse then they are.
But it is true that the law text was extremely generic, and so prone to every kind of interpretation, pessimistic or optimistic.
The basic problem is that italian laws are often very badly written (in the sense that are basically and fundamentally unclear). And in the confusion, everyone can say everything...
No, from a Joint Venture they are not (only) bean counters to be laid off, but also pretty valid people.
I work for Siemens COM, wich is part of the JV, and the result if I or I am not part of 10% is "will my work useful (i.e. not redundant with other company product) after merge?".
As you may note, if I am a monkey or not is totally irrilevant. In a JV one product of the two parallel force will survive. If it will be the one that I work for, OK. Otherwise, well, I am off.
That's it.
If RNC (network entity for UMTS stuff) will be valued more of Nokia one, then I'll survive. If not, well, I will have problems to survive, since in Italy IT sector is near collapse (part of UMTS network is developed in Italy).
I am italian and I work in the R&D team of a cellular network/phone manufecturer, so I can tell you exactly why: people is different, not economy/other. Mothers want to keep in contact with childs, childs want to keep in contact themselves, elders want to be sure that in case of help they can contact someone, and on... As a side story, the #1 cell network operator in Italy pays for the renting of the top floor of a building block for cell antenna 10,000 US$ EVERY YEAR. You can figure how high the traffic is....
You are saying that you are interested to both the ends of the ladder, the Good and the Bad. It is very easy to find the Bad, so it's not worth the effort, since it is much easier to be lazy than overzeolus. What you don't expect though is *where* you can find the Bad. Bad code lies everywhere, even toghether with the Good. Even made by the same person....I whish to be deliberatly provocative: Linux. Try to see the code of floppy disk driver inside the kernel, floppy.c. From my point of view, it's an ugly mess of good hacks and sloppy coding. Try to see the source of much-abused ls command. Beware, it's so convoluted that I think non one touches it anymore.
Of course, the Good and the Bad can be swapped, i.e. some people will say exactly the opposite, but code is like people: sometimes is bad, sometimes is good, depending on the way you woke up. Even for wizards like Linus.
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But by using your logic we could lock up just about every suit from Lamborghini, Ferrari, De Tomaso, and Pagani because A. Every single car they make is created with first and foremost with breaking every known speed limit in mind and B. Their cars are responsible for more deaths than all the guns Beretta as manufactured.
Wrong example: Lord only knows how many people is killed by *any kind* of cars. Speed limit is breaked even by the cheapest car nowadays ;-). And no, I don't want to remove videos of these cars. I want to remove (using your analogy) those that, for instance as occurred in Italy, has filmed a race in the freeway driving at 160mph. Only those, not *all*. Can you understand that?
Or maybe it's your problem ;)
So, in your logic, if as blogadmin of InfiniteInjury.org I meet you in the street and smash my hand on your face while filming you, and publish such "act", you don't post a complaint to youtube because you are against censorship?
This is ridiculous: it's not censorship. It's something *wrong*, like filming someone that is hit by a car in the street. Or you are telling me that it's in your right to use the car to hit people, and so it's censorship to take away the video? It's insane.
Since kids were underage, italian laws, for this kind of activity, prescribes that they have to work for some non-profit organizations for a limited period of time. That's it. Thst was part of a different legal process from Google's one.
Problem with the two monts period is that many people in italy is not so "computer oriented" and they were believing to have notified properly the request, when instead was not.
I am italian, and I live in Italy. And I personally know the president of the association who has opened the warrant against google, vividown (http://www.vividown.org/), and more than anyone else here I know the case, as I can read (I am not a vividown affilate though, but I am friend of some Down's people).
Vividown is an association that takes cares of people affected by Down's syndrome, for anything starting from medical care to relatives support and also legal counseling in various issues.
Vividown has sued Google for only one very basic reason: Google video (at the time, 2006, YouTube was not part of Google Inc) has retained the infamous video of childs that beats up a Down's for *two months*, even if Vividown and other people, mostly relatives of Down's child, has specifically requested to delete it from the Google database multiple times.
THIS IS THE ONLY REASON. That video was seen by tens of thousands people, thanks to the attention of local newspapers, like http://www.corriere.it. And for sure, many of those viewers laugh at that and they dream to beat up them too a Down's child. Many people was outraged of that, and vividown has taken the legal action for this reason. NO internet censorship or whatsoever.
You can read (in italian) the official word from vividown (sorry, in italian) here: http://www.vividown.org/news/Cominicato%20Stampa%20Vivi%20Down%20CI.pdf.
Also, no arrest were made. In Italy, thanks God, not all criminal charges results automatically in jail time. Not only that: even if the case will close in a negative way for Google, the interested people will *not* going to jail anyway, since the resulting (if any) jail time will fall below the minimum required for actual liberty restriction indictement.
And also, vividown do *not want* that Google people go to jail. This has to be understood clearly: IT IS NOT the association desire to censor Google or put a blanket on internet. Vividown want only to avoid that such abuse is repeated again, and that any people/organization has the needed attention to these issues.
In Italy, but I assume in many other places, Down's people is considered inferior, and openly discriminated. Please don't do in internet also!
Yes, the original post was basically vaporware, and "questionable" in origin in the sense that who has written it (http://www.beppegrillo.it/) has a personal interest to make things worse then they are.
But it is true that the law text was extremely generic, and so prone to every kind of interpretation, pessimistic or optimistic.
The basic problem is that italian laws are often very badly written (in the sense that are basically and fundamentally unclear). And in the confusion, everyone can say everything...
No, from a Joint Venture they are not (only) bean counters to be laid off, but also pretty valid people.
I work for Siemens COM, wich is part of the JV, and the result if I or I am not part of 10% is "will my work useful (i.e. not redundant with other company product) after merge?".
As you may note, if I am a monkey or not is totally irrilevant. In a JV one product of the two parallel force will survive. If it will be the one that I work for, OK.
Otherwise, well, I am off.
That's it.
If RNC (network entity for UMTS stuff) will be valued more of Nokia one, then I'll survive. If not, well, I will have problems to survive, since in Italy IT sector is near collapse (part of UMTS network is developed in Italy).
I am italian and I work in the R&D team of a cellular network/phone manufecturer, so I can tell you exactly why: people is different, not economy/other.
Mothers want to keep in contact with childs, childs want to keep in contact themselves, elders want to be sure that in case of help they can contact someone, and on...
As a side story, the #1 cell network operator in Italy pays for the renting of the top floor of a building block for cell antenna 10,000 US$ EVERY YEAR. You can figure how high the traffic is....
You are saying that you are interested to both the ends of the ladder, the Good and the Bad. It is very easy to find the Bad, so it's not worth the effort, since it is much easier to be lazy than overzeolus. What you don't expect though is *where* you can find the Bad. Bad code lies everywhere, even toghether with the Good. Even made by the same person....I whish to be deliberatly provocative: Linux. Try to see the code of floppy disk driver inside the kernel, floppy.c. From my point of view, it's an ugly mess of good hacks and sloppy coding. Try to see the source of much-abused ls command. Beware, it's so convoluted that I think non one touches it anymore. Of course, the Good and the Bad can be swapped, i.e. some people will say exactly the opposite, but code is like people: sometimes is bad, sometimes is good, depending on the way you woke up. Even for wizards like Linus.