Ethics does not work that way. You can't say "this is a narrow case, therefore principles no longer apply"
the guy is basically a beligerent at war with the US.
If he's at war, then send in the military with official executive authorization signed by an accountable public official to make a specific assasination.
Understanding that his due process of law is being denied. He has a right to defend himself in court against the death penalty.
Don't send in law enforcement.
Otherwise, use targeted force that has potential to be deadly, but target to enforce the law and put a stop to the situation;
No throwing in bombs or tools of mass destruction with high risk to the public and high collateral damage.
In my opinion that is not law enforcement, that's assassination.
Kind of agree... this goes beyond the use of lethal force. This goes straight into Intentional targetted killing.
If there's another payload they could use besides an explosive that would have been likely to incapacitate the suspect, that's what should have been used.
The fact they didn't, in some way makes them Just as bad as the guy they were targetting.
I can easily find a way to transmit hidden messages.
But WILL you? With the knowledge that they have snoops looking for them, and if it eventually comes to light you sent even one hidden message, you're going to the Gulag for the rest of your days?
You need a parallel experiment, where you have a team of HUMANS who are given the task to introduce sneaky security bugs into the software that allow arbitrary code execution, encryption key exposure, Or accidentally leak other data over the network but are hard to detect and won't show up in unit tests.
You announce that there will be monetary compensation for the authors of the 10 bugs in each category that survive the largest number of code reviews.
If it's OK for an employer to lay someone off without 2 weeks notice, then it is automatically OK for that same person to leave (If they want) without 2 weeks notice.
If you are an employer and want notice from your employees, then sign a mutually-beneficial agreement that works both ways.
That's a rather tortured way of saying you don't think they should be obligated to pay taxes. Why not just come out and say it?
And "How dare the government demant FB pay its fair share..." is a rather tortured way of saying you think they should have to pay more taxes to the US for profits made overseas.
Those poor oppressed corporations! That mean nasty government! How dare the government demant FB pay its fair share...
There's nothing "fair" about what the ridiculously large mafia-style variable-rate kickbacks the IRS and US government is attempting to extract from enterprises and members of the public.
I say kudos to Facebook, and any company who manages to still exist in the US and provide jobs and valuable goods and services without being raped by the IRS.
Unfortunately, the mafiaaIRS is powerful, so some battles they are going to lose.....
What my insurance expects is me doing what can reasonably be expected from someone to mitigate damages. I'm expected to not drive while drunk.
Driving while drunk is not like a hurricane. There's nothing you can do about a hurricane, without unreasonable cost at least... You could build a concrete hurricane defense wall, But not in the 72 hours advance, And Insurance cannot require extra expenditures for coverage --- You are covered AS-IS.. Driving while drunk is Unlawful behavior that caused the damage; different ballgame.
Of course, in the case of drunk driving, your insurance should not repay you for damage that you willfully caused to your own property, and willfully and voluntarily engaging in illegal behavior that had that as a foreseeable consequence should be considered willful self-damage.
But yes, if you drive while drunk, then I still expect your insurance to pay for DAMAGE YOU DO TO OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE.
They should also pay (Both liability, And collission) if you spontaneously fall unconscious at the wheel and an accident results.
Also, the act of crashing into me was probably involuntary on your part, so your insurer should not expect you to fork over the money either for driving while drunk ---- this is part of the insured risk, But I guess it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, as long as the victim gets paid promptly.
If it's not part of the insured risk for liability insurance, then the Auto insurance companies sure are gouging us......
"we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"
What happens when the robocallers realize that we are whitelisting, and start using 'confirmed lists of valid phone numbers to call', then start a brute-force attack with caller IDs working on making 10 billion calls to each phone number: if we don't answer (Each time spoofing a different incremental Caller ID, in the hopes that they figure out one of the whitelisted CIDs and then suddenly get through) ?
if you choose to do so, not expect any kind of compensation from your insurance.
That is Grade A Horse shit right there. Insurance compensation is for a loss IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER contingent on the policyholder receiving advance notice about a hurricane warning.
Insurance is also In No Way Whatsoever dependent on the policyholder's behavior before the loss.
It's not as if a hurricane is more likely to strike when you ignore or don't receive the notice.
You're not even required to own a telephone or communications device, let alone be listening for alerts.
Anyways, there is no way to take a hurricane warning and wave a magic wand to prevent damage. The purpose of having hurricane warnings, is so that people in danger will know If and when they need to evacuate or stay inside. Thay way fewer people get killed by floodwaters, high winds, or impaled by debris or objects falling on them.
What fantasy world are you guys living in? The government does not spam people.
Yes, they do. Or rather, Politican candidates (Often incumbents re-running for office)
Generate a hell of a lot of spam, every time there is an election coming up, and there are also always at least 3 or 4 calls for some voter survey too.
Now, not all of these are done under the auspicies of the government, but often there will be at least 3 or 4 messages from the local incumbent regarding Town hall meeting, "reminder to vote", etc.
They are annoying...... we don't need the FCC saying the local government is exempt from the rules for such trivial contacts which are for Non-Emergency / Non-Essential purposes, Not even being used to make an announcement, other than to try and get someone currently in office re-elected, mostly.
low incentive (given how few fatal crashes there are with air travel)
Well, perhaps there are worthwhile security and convenience incentives.
First of all; You can eliminate "carry on" luggage, and there is no way you can have a hijacking.
Any attempt to release a poison into the air winds up getting contained to the perpetrators' pod.
Second, the screening of passengers can be further distributed to reduce wait times by on-boarding passengers for All destinations at remote sites,
so there's no massive long line at one place at the airport, while other gates are idle.....
Third, if you need a connecting flight and intermediary Bus/Train travel, your pod will automatically be transported through without you walking around, so you can sleep through your whole trip from source to destination.
Physical locks can be compromised, so we'll protect them with digital locks
No..... this is not really the reason cars are getting digital locks.
Physical locks can be made more secure too. Take a look at the Abloy disk locks.
(1) They are nicer for the customers. They look fancy, appealing. They have an appearance of technical sophistication
(2) The digital locks often provide additional convenience features, for example, opening your door with your keys in your pocket.
Automatic opening of the trunk. Auto starting for you.
(3) Digital locks generate additional revenue. Do you have any idea how much a replacement digital key costs?
I've seen dealers charging more than $500 to replace one, and they're easily lost.
(4) More complexity provides an APPEARANCE of more security, more peace of mind
legally allowed to sell a product that kills hundreds of thousands of humans every year.
They'll generally blame lack of healthcare and limitations of medicine for those early deaths.
The reaction is not "Ban Tobacco"; But: Pass Obamacare, which prohibits insurance companies from raising your rates because you are a smoker (Beyond a specified level), to reduce Health insurance costs for smokers (And lay make all the 20-year-old non-smokers take equal responsibility for your extra healthcare costs from smoking).
There's no proof that tobacco resulted in deaths of thousands.
Many of those are not untimely early demise. It's quite different with mass shooting deaths, where the dead often include young people.
Nobody died of Tobacco. People died of health conditions which Tobacco might have had a role in.
Also, this is viewed as 'free choice' by those who died; We have a culture that is currently in generally permissive of self-destructive behaviors,
such as smoking, alcohol, and casual drug usage.
Also, the Freedom to control your body is prioritized over the risk that you might kill yourself by abusing a product.
When the owner sets up their vehicle.... have them define a passcode; much like you do for a phone.
The vehicle should have sensors to detect unauthorized entry and unauthorized attempts to access diagnostic ports to plug-in a laptop.
If an unauthorized access attempt is detected when the vehicle is in secure mode, Or the user is ultra-paranoid and pushes a special "Lock" button before turning off their engine..... it should put all the vehicle computers in a "Passcode" lock status which can only be released by entering the password; Each intelligent component in the vehicle locking itself and not allowing an unlock without the correct passcode-derived hash being broadcast.
The passcode lock status should take actions to make sure the power systems cannot be taken out of Park/Neutral, Engine control and motors or fuel injection systems set themself into limp mode and not allow high speed operation.
There should be regular phone-home messages for tracking purposes.
Put security covers on each diagnostic access point with a lock which require a traditional physical key that the car owner has to access to; either to open the port or to enable the port.....
By comparison, assault rifles account for a "minuscule" fraction of lives taken every year
That's the difference between property and the value of a human life. Even a "miniscule" number of lives being taken in violence is considered not acceptable.
The number has to be gotten down to Zero, that's their goal, and that is what the public demands.
Until their demands are met, they are going to ask for more countermeasures and stricter and stricter laws in (possibly vain) effort to get that number down to zeor.
you can't get the new firmware, which means if there is a vulnerability in your version, you're screwed.
Cisco has a Free security updates policy for their equipment.
You don't need a support contract --- you just will not be able to download it directly without calling in TAC on the phone.
As long as the model is not end of life, you can call in TAC support for a free security update, and you'll get the version with security bugs patched.
You will not get other upgrades, bugfixes, or enhancements. They'll provide you the code based on your current version with only the security patches applied to it.
If your router's settings are fubar and won't let you go online, how do you connect to the cloud to change the router's settings so you can go online?
You call customer support. Usually they have a 'factory reset' button which will revert the device to grabbing its configuration from DHCP, so it can get back online.
They may have one of those 'diagnostic acoustic interfaces', where you do a button sequence, then hold your phone up to the device, and new settings are loaded onto it.
They may direct you to send it back, receive a replacement, Or get the software CD out, or plug a USB cable into the device which loads software on your PC to re-configure the WAN interface settings.
They may also direct you through a "technical support console" which requires connecting with telnet and then entering the response to a challenge code support will provide you.
Some of them may have a stripped-down webui available on the local LAN after factory reset, which will provide just enough configuration to connect to the cloud.
It's what you drive while you're accumulating enough money to buy a better car.
Over the next 10 years, I expect to spend a good 10% 20% of my time driving, so it is kind of important how much my car appeals to me, how comfortable it is to drive, etc. AND getting just a serviceable car is a sacrifice to standard of living assuming you can do better without risking going bust.... what did you think it was?
Just like i'm not going to cheap out on my mattress, or other heavily-used possessions. First of all, I need them to be robust and not break on me, or leave me in a bad situation. They should also be ergonomic and uplifting; they should not be things I would complain about every day.
I am still going to take out a loan if I want to buy a $40k car, of a model which I have an expectation to last 15 years, even if I have $250,000 in investments at the time, and my income is only $50k a year (The cost will only go down over time, especially after considering inflation); Of course, I will make sure it is properly protected by some insurance and warranty policies.
But it is kind of, my choice, you know..... no craziness......
Network vendors are doing this. So I get the update that this is not what TP-LINK is doing here.
That does not invalidate my point though..... Be VERY careful about other vendors requiring you to use an external link to configure local equipment or making Calls out to home.
I would check really thoroughly, and if there's not a way to turn it off, return the product to merchant before the return period runs out.
but they are now at the mercy of the vehicle pool - that is the "something important" which was exchanged for the lower cost.
Do you think, realistically, what was lost is going to be more valuable than what was gained? Assuming the subscription price is 'fair', and you are not being gouged.
Also, considering it's likely monthly subscription, then you can at any point turn around and change your mind, to decide you want out of the pool, and go buy one.
Meanwhile you have an investment that is growing every month instead of depreciating every month, and by the time you decide you want out of the pool, your compounded-investment might be worth several times as much as the cost of a car.
That is... if you buy $15,000 of stock at Year 1, and yields 10% a year, then buy the end of Year 7 it's worth $30,000.
If you had bought a car instead, then at the end of Year 7 it's worth less than $2000. I'll take a 100% gain over an 80% loss, any day.
If you want out after Year7, you can even possibly use dividend payments that came out of your financial investment to fund the purchase, AND you might have a huge chunk left over, which will continue to compound, and is extra $$$ you got to keep by delaying the vehicle purchase.
That was what you did PRE-CLOUD. Now all the vendors want you to go through their website.
That way, later, when they discontinue the product --- they can require you purchase an upgrade, next time you want to make changes....
Or even better, they can bill you a monthly fee, and turn your network off if you forget to renew the license; e.g. Meraki.
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Meh, in this narrow case, who cares?
Ethics does not work that way. You can't say "this is a narrow case, therefore principles no longer apply"
the guy is basically a beligerent at war with the US.
If he's at war, then send in the military with official executive authorization signed by an accountable public official to make a specific assasination. Understanding that his due process of law is being denied. He has a right to defend himself in court against the death penalty.
Don't send in law enforcement.
Otherwise, use targeted force that has potential to be deadly, but target to enforce the law and put a stop to the situation; No throwing in bombs or tools of mass destruction with high risk to the public and high collateral damage.
Plenty of such means exist.
In my opinion that is not law enforcement, that's assassination.
Kind of agree... this goes beyond the use of lethal force. This goes straight into Intentional targetted killing.
If there's another payload they could use besides an explosive that would have been likely to incapacitate the suspect, that's what should have been used.
The fact they didn't, in some way makes them Just as bad as the guy they were targetting.
I can easily find a way to transmit hidden messages.
But WILL you? With the knowledge that they have snoops looking for them, and if it eventually comes to light you sent even one hidden message, you're going to the Gulag for the rest of your days?
You need a parallel experiment, where you have a team of HUMANS who are given the task to introduce sneaky security bugs into the software that allow arbitrary code execution, encryption key exposure, Or accidentally leak other data over the network but are hard to detect and won't show up in unit tests.
You announce that there will be monetary compensation for the authors of the 10 bugs in each category that survive the largest number of code reviews.
If it's OK for an employer to lay someone off without 2 weeks notice, then it is automatically OK for that same person to leave (If they want) without 2 weeks notice.
If you are an employer and want notice from your employees, then sign a mutually-beneficial agreement that works both ways.
After they fail, their next step is to say "See, this cannot be done", And Ban all cryptography.
That's a rather tortured way of saying you don't think they should be obligated to pay taxes. Why not just come out and say it?
And "How dare the government demant FB pay its fair share..." is a rather tortured way of saying you think they should have to pay more taxes to the US for profits made overseas.
Those poor oppressed corporations! That mean nasty government! How dare the government demant FB pay its fair share...
There's nothing "fair" about what the ridiculously large mafia-style variable-rate kickbacks the IRS and US government is attempting to extract from enterprises and members of the public.
I say kudos to Facebook, and any company who manages to still exist in the US and provide jobs and valuable goods and services without being raped by the IRS.
Unfortunately, the mafiaaIRS is powerful, so some battles they are going to lose.....
What my insurance expects is me doing what can reasonably be expected from someone to mitigate damages. I'm expected to not drive while drunk.
Driving while drunk is not like a hurricane. There's nothing you can do about a hurricane, without unreasonable cost at least... You could build a concrete hurricane defense wall, But not in the 72 hours advance, And Insurance cannot require extra expenditures for coverage --- You are covered AS-IS.. Driving while drunk is Unlawful behavior that caused the damage; different ballgame.
Of course, in the case of drunk driving, your insurance should not repay you for damage that you willfully caused to your own property, and willfully and voluntarily engaging in illegal behavior that had that as a foreseeable consequence should be considered willful self-damage.
But yes, if you drive while drunk, then I still expect your insurance to pay for DAMAGE YOU DO TO OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE.
They should also pay (Both liability, And collission) if you spontaneously fall unconscious at the wheel and an accident results.
Also, the act of crashing into me was probably involuntary on your part, so your insurer should not expect you to fork over the money either for driving while drunk ---- this is part of the insured risk, But I guess it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, as long as the victim gets paid promptly.
If it's not part of the insured risk for liability insurance, then the Auto insurance companies sure are gouging us......
"we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"
What happens when the robocallers realize that we are whitelisting, and start using 'confirmed lists of valid phone numbers to call', then start a brute-force attack with caller IDs working on making 10 billion calls to each phone number: if we don't answer (Each time spoofing a different incremental Caller ID, in the hopes that they figure out one of the whitelisted CIDs and then suddenly get through) ?
if you choose to do so, not expect any kind of compensation from your insurance.
That is Grade A Horse shit right there. Insurance compensation is for a loss IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER contingent on the policyholder receiving advance notice about a hurricane warning.
Insurance is also In No Way Whatsoever dependent on the policyholder's behavior before the loss.
It's not as if a hurricane is more likely to strike when you ignore or don't receive the notice.
You're not even required to own a telephone or communications device, let alone be listening for alerts.
Anyways, there is no way to take a hurricane warning and wave a magic wand to prevent damage. The purpose of having hurricane warnings, is so that people in danger will know If and when they need to evacuate or stay inside. Thay way fewer people get killed by floodwaters, high winds, or impaled by debris or objects falling on them.
What fantasy world are you guys living in? The government does not spam people.
Yes, they do. Or rather, Politican candidates (Often incumbents re-running for office)
Generate a hell of a lot of spam, every time there is an election coming up, and there are also always at least 3 or 4 calls for some voter survey too.
Now, not all of these are done under the auspicies of the government, but often there will be at least 3 or 4 messages from the local incumbent regarding Town hall meeting, "reminder to vote", etc.
They are annoying...... we don't need the FCC saying the local government is exempt from the rules for such trivial contacts which are for Non-Emergency / Non-Essential purposes, Not even being used to make an announcement, other than to try and get someone currently in office re-elected, mostly.
most older, retired people (their chosen mark) still use telephones
Still use landlines.... why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?
low incentive (given how few fatal crashes there are with air travel)
Well, perhaps there are worthwhile security and convenience incentives.
First of all; You can eliminate "carry on" luggage, and there is no way you can have a hijacking.
Any attempt to release a poison into the air winds up getting contained to the perpetrators' pod.
Second, the screening of passengers can be further distributed to reduce wait times by on-boarding passengers for All destinations at remote sites, so there's no massive long line at one place at the airport, while other gates are idle.....
Third, if you need a connecting flight and intermediary Bus/Train travel, your pod will automatically be transported through without you walking around, so you can sleep through your whole trip from source to destination.
Nobody died of cars. People died of health conditions which cars might have had a role in.
If you die of blood loss or being crushed into a pancake, then there is an irrefutable causal chain that a 2-year-old can follow.
If a 70-year-old-smoker dies of cancer..... there is nothing that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that smoking killed that person.
Also, he/she was pretty close to the normal lifespan, so perhaps it is not that serious in the first place. Maybe just old age also.
Healthy people who never smoked get the same kinds of cancers. There's only statistical data, not absolute proof.
Physical locks can be compromised, so we'll protect them with digital locks
No..... this is not really the reason cars are getting digital locks. Physical locks can be made more secure too. Take a look at the Abloy disk locks.
(1) They are nicer for the customers. They look fancy, appealing. They have an appearance of technical sophistication
(2) The digital locks often provide additional convenience features, for example, opening your door with your keys in your pocket. Automatic opening of the trunk. Auto starting for you.
(3) Digital locks generate additional revenue. Do you have any idea how much a replacement digital key costs? I've seen dealers charging more than $500 to replace one, and they're easily lost.
(4) More complexity provides an APPEARANCE of more security, more peace of mind
legally allowed to sell a product that kills hundreds of thousands of humans every year.
They'll generally blame lack of healthcare and limitations of medicine for those early deaths.
The reaction is not "Ban Tobacco"; But: Pass Obamacare, which prohibits insurance companies from raising your rates because you are a smoker (Beyond a specified level), to reduce Health insurance costs for smokers (And lay make all the 20-year-old non-smokers take equal responsibility for your extra healthcare costs from smoking).
There's no proof that tobacco resulted in deaths of thousands. Many of those are not untimely early demise. It's quite different with mass shooting deaths, where the dead often include young people.
Nobody died of Tobacco. People died of health conditions which Tobacco might have had a role in.
Also, this is viewed as 'free choice' by those who died; We have a culture that is currently in generally permissive of self-destructive behaviors, such as smoking, alcohol, and casual drug usage.
Also, the Freedom to control your body is prioritized over the risk that you might kill yourself by abusing a product.
When the owner sets up their vehicle.... have them define a passcode; much like you do for a phone. The vehicle should have sensors to detect unauthorized entry and unauthorized attempts to access diagnostic ports to plug-in a laptop.
If an unauthorized access attempt is detected when the vehicle is in secure mode, Or the user is ultra-paranoid and pushes a special "Lock" button before turning off their engine..... it should put all the vehicle computers in a "Passcode" lock status which can only be released by entering the password; Each intelligent component in the vehicle locking itself and not allowing an unlock without the correct passcode-derived hash being broadcast.
The passcode lock status should take actions to make sure the power systems cannot be taken out of Park/Neutral, Engine control and motors or fuel injection systems set themself into limp mode and not allow high speed operation.
There should be regular phone-home messages for tracking purposes.
Put security covers on each diagnostic access point with a lock which require a traditional physical key that the car owner has to access to; either to open the port or to enable the port.....
By comparison, assault rifles account for a "minuscule" fraction of lives taken every year
That's the difference between property and the value of a human life. Even a "miniscule" number of lives being taken in violence is considered not acceptable. The number has to be gotten down to Zero, that's their goal, and that is what the public demands.
Until their demands are met, they are going to ask for more countermeasures and stricter and stricter laws in (possibly vain) effort to get that number down to zeor.
you can't get the new firmware, which means if there is a vulnerability in your version, you're screwed.
Cisco has a Free security updates policy for their equipment. You don't need a support contract --- you just will not be able to download it directly without calling in TAC on the phone.
As long as the model is not end of life, you can call in TAC support for a free security update, and you'll get the version with security bugs patched.
You will not get other upgrades, bugfixes, or enhancements. They'll provide you the code based on your current version with only the security patches applied to it.
If your router's settings are fubar and won't let you go online, how do you connect to the cloud to change the router's settings so you can go online?
You call customer support. Usually they have a 'factory reset' button which will revert the device to grabbing its configuration from DHCP, so it can get back online.
They may have one of those 'diagnostic acoustic interfaces', where you do a button sequence, then hold your phone up to the device, and new settings are loaded onto it.
They may direct you to send it back, receive a replacement, Or get the software CD out, or plug a USB cable into the device which loads software on your PC to re-configure the WAN interface settings.
They may also direct you through a "technical support console" which requires connecting with telnet and then entering the response to a challenge code support will provide you.
Some of them may have a stripped-down webui available on the local LAN after factory reset, which will provide just enough configuration to connect to the cloud.
It's what you drive while you're accumulating enough money to buy a better car.
Over the next 10 years, I expect to spend a good 10% 20% of my time driving, so it is kind of important how much my car appeals to me, how comfortable it is to drive, etc. AND getting just a serviceable car is a sacrifice to standard of living assuming you can do better without risking going bust.... what did you think it was?
Just like i'm not going to cheap out on my mattress, or other heavily-used possessions. First of all, I need them to be robust and not break on me, or leave me in a bad situation. They should also be ergonomic and uplifting; they should not be things I would complain about every day.
I am still going to take out a loan if I want to buy a $40k car, of a model which I have an expectation to last 15 years, even if I have $250,000 in investments at the time, and my income is only $50k a year (The cost will only go down over time, especially after considering inflation); Of course, I will make sure it is properly protected by some insurance and warranty policies. But it is kind of, my choice, you know..... no craziness......
Network vendors are doing this. So I get the update that this is not what TP-LINK is doing here. That does not invalidate my point though..... Be VERY careful about other vendors requiring you to use an external link to configure local equipment or making Calls out to home.
I would check really thoroughly, and if there's not a way to turn it off, return the product to merchant before the return period runs out.
but they are now at the mercy of the vehicle pool - that is the "something important" which was exchanged for the lower cost.
Do you think, realistically, what was lost is going to be more valuable than what was gained? Assuming the subscription price is 'fair', and you are not being gouged.
Also, considering it's likely monthly subscription, then you can at any point turn around and change your mind, to decide you want out of the pool, and go buy one.
Meanwhile you have an investment that is growing every month instead of depreciating every month, and by the time you decide you want out of the pool, your compounded-investment might be worth several times as much as the cost of a car.
That is... if you buy $15,000 of stock at Year 1, and yields 10% a year, then buy the end of Year 7 it's worth $30,000.
If you had bought a car instead, then at the end of Year 7 it's worth less than $2000. I'll take a 100% gain over an 80% loss, any day.
If you want out after Year7, you can even possibly use dividend payments that came out of your financial investment to fund the purchase, AND you might have a huge chunk left over, which will continue to compound, and is extra $$$ you got to keep by delaying the vehicle purchase.
That was what you did PRE-CLOUD. Now all the vendors want you to go through their website.
That way, later, when they discontinue the product --- they can require you purchase an upgrade, next time you want to make changes.... Or even better, they can bill you a monthly fee, and turn your network off if you forget to renew the license; e.g. Meraki.