Entire Federal Government Exempt From Robocall Laws, FCC Rules (thehill.com)

An anonymous reader writes from a report via The Hill: Late Tuesday night, the Federal Communications Commission ruled that the entire federal government is exempt from consumer protection laws that limit unwanted robocalls. They ruled that the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991 doesn't apply to the federal government, while the law does bar businesses from making numerous autodialed or prerecorded calls to a person's cellphone. The FCC did also make contractors working on behalf of the government exempt from the law as well. Earlier this year, a Supreme Court case found that the law does not apply to the government because of sovereign immunity. However, the FCC ruled that the government falls outside the law's definition of a "person." "Indeed, had Congress wanted to subject the federal government to the TCPA, it easily could have done so by defining 'person' to include the federal government," according to the ruling. Therefore, contractors hired by members of Congress can robocall individuals to participate in town halls, government researchers can place autodialed calls to the cellphones of survey respondents, and contractors can make similar calls to offer information about social security. The ruling does not apply to lawmakers who are using the calls for political campaigns.

Comments

Well, of course it is! It's the damn government.

[fustakrakich]

It is exempt from everything. Who cares? The voters don't. So why should I dwell on it?

What a ridiculous ruling

[Anonymous Coward]

You might not be able to go after the Government over robocalls. However, you can go after the individual contractors and take them to court. Even if the case gets tossed, it will be a burden on the contractors. They'll, hopefully, think twice about being a part of something like this.

Re:What a ridiculous ruling

[muphin]

most likely this will be outsourced to companies already with the facilities... mainly.. the telemarketers ... but guess what.. since they now have your number it will go on a million other lists :p and since its outsourced, different laws apply.

Propaganda...

[Anonymous Coward]

...meet call blocking feature.

Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Basic espionage laws along with destruction of evidence and lying to the FBI (which is what Martha Stewart was jailed for)

Why should government be bound by any laws us little people have to follow?

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Get your libels correct:

"...Stewart was found guilty in March 2004 of felony charges of conspiracy, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigators,..."

The Conspiracy charge was by far the most serious, and isn't usually pursued unless the evidence is overwhelming. Conspiracy cases can take a decade to develop, and Stewart was just the most public conviction. BTW, she deserved it.

Clinton may be guilty of many things; lord knows Republicans have charged her, with sound bites, of everything up to and including bad fashion sense. But those bastards always melt away when push comes to Indictment, because they have _nothing_. If they did have anything, other than sound bites, they would seriously pursue Conspiracy charges.
"Basic Espionage Laws". Name just one, you rectal hemorrhage. (Hint: Look up the various Alien and Sedition Acts and the Fifth Amendment, and in 1000 words or less, explain why they don't apply. Provide Proofs in logical order. Oh, double spaced, please, and this time, no crayons.)

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the government HAS to be able to contact it's citizens... they aren't retailors or a political party. It's obvious the robocall law was not made to apply to the government and it should not because it would harm the nation.

Citizens and govenrment are really the same thing in a democracy, but mandatory public services really need to be able to send out automated messaged.

Are you really saying Amber Alerts should be illegal because that's where you would be going with saying the government should not solicit you using an automated process.

We do that to private organizations to stop spam. I've never heard of spam from the government. Even the IRS and DMV doesn't spam people.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[roman_mir]

WTF are you talking about? Government absolutely spams people. Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself. This has nothing to do with any so called 'public good' (there is no such thing anyway). These robocalls are illegal and now the government says: fuck you all, we are above the law. We will call you, promote our agenda, ask for money, threaten you into compliance, into voting a particular way, etc.etc.etc.

Tyranny of a collectivist government is worse than tyranny of a singular tyrant. A tyrant can be taken down, even killed. How do you kill the hydra that is a collectivist government?

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[SirSlud]

I was unaware that most tyrants didn't surround themselves with what amounts to a hydra.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[EmeraldBot]

WTF are you talking about? Government absolutely spams people. Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself. This has nothing to do with any so called 'public good' (there is no such thing anyway). These robocalls are illegal and now the government says: fuck you all, we are above the law. We will call you, promote our agenda, ask for money, threaten you into compliance, into voting a particular way, etc.etc.etc.

Tyranny of a collectivist government is worse than tyranny of a singular tyrant. A tyrant can be taken down, even killed. How do you kill the hydra that is a collectivist government?

Seriously? You don't like the government's policies, so your first reaction is to kill the leader? For the love of god, you're a shining example of the extremism that's become fashionable nowadays. This isn't Iran, if you have a problem you protest peacefully or become active in politics yourself, you don't fucking assassinate people.

Second off, I think the AC parent is the only one I've read so far who's RTFA. If you actually did, it still bans politicians, which will prevent the at times harassing political bombardments, but the government itself is of course going to need to call people. Businesses are exempt when they do business - but what does the government do? It's sure as hell not supposed to be business. Without the mass calling exemption, they wouldn't be able to distribute natural disaster alerts, the Amber Alert system would be questionable, and I think we can all agree saying no to a researcher the one time in your life you're called isn't too hard compared to the benefits scientific studies bring us all. I'm as frustrated with our government as anyone is right now, but geez people, think before saying something.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[roman_mir]

This isn't Iran, if you have a problem you protest peacefully or become active in politics yourself, you don't fucking assassinate people.

- I disagree. I think assassinating government officials makes perfect sense, they don't give a hoot about assassinating anybody and everybody if that's what it takes to stay in power. Starting wars, murdering thousands, tens, hundreds of thousands, millions, all of this is done by governments. Sure, sure, governments have support of their people, but that's the problem - the people are very often uninformed, unintelligent creatures that follow another 'charismatic' asshole down the drain. Sometimes that 'charismatic' asshole needs to be taken down to pull the people out of their idiocy. Sometimes the dear leader simply cannot be replaced by any other means (see North Korea for example).

As to the fucking collectivist governments, like the ones in USA, EU, those are the worst types of offenders where it comes to impossibility of getting rid of a completely fucked up situation.

I am against the very existence of the IRS, Federal reserve bank, FDIC, FHA, EPA, FCC, FBI, departments of all shapes and sizes, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, every form of welfare, every form of theft and redistribution.

These things cannot be eliminated because the people who are voting will always vote to take from others what they think is their entitlement. These things should not exist in the USA in the first place, not a single one of them is Constitutional, every one of them is usurpation of power. AFAIC the power is already such that it is way beyond the normal process, there is no way to abolish all of these institutions without a violent event. A violent event is coming, it will be brought upon by the crash of the US bonds and the dollar itself. The violence is coming and these institutions will be gone simply because the very foundation for them, the US dollar that is fake (defaulted upon back in 1971) is going to fail and the Fed will make sure it fails in the worst way possible.

We are alive on this planet today, not tomorrow necessarily, not 100 years from now but right now. We should not suffer any of this right now.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[EmeraldBot]

This isn't Iran, if you have a problem you protest peacefully or become active in politics yourself, you don't fucking assassinate people.

- I disagree. I think assassinating government officials makes perfect sense, they don't give a hoot about assassinating anybody and everybody if that's what it takes to stay in power. Starting wars, murdering thousands, tens, hundreds of thousands, millions, all of this is done by governments. Sure, sure, governments have support of their people, but that's the problem - the people are very often uninformed, unintelligent creatures that follow another 'charismatic' asshole down the drain. Sometimes that 'charismatic' asshole needs to be taken down to pull the people out of their idiocy. Sometimes the dear leader simply cannot be replaced by any other means (see North Korea for example).

As to the fucking collectivist governments, like the ones in USA, EU, those are the worst types of offenders where it comes to impossibility of getting rid of a completely fucked up situation.

I am against the very existence of the IRS, Federal reserve bank, FDIC, FHA, EPA, FCC, FBI, departments of all shapes and sizes, SS, Medicare, Medicaid, every form of welfare, every form of theft and redistribution.

These things cannot be eliminated because the people who are voting will always vote to take from others what they think is their entitlement. These things should not exist in the USA in the first place, not a single one of them is Constitutional, every one of them is usurpation of power. AFAIC the power is already such that it is way beyond the normal process, there is no way to abolish all of these institutions without a violent event. A violent event is coming, it will be brought upon by the crash of the US bonds and the dollar itself. The violence is coming and these institutions will be gone simply because the very foundation for them, the US dollar that is fake (defaulted upon back in 1971) is going to fail and the Fed will make sure it fails in the worst way possible.

We are alive on this planet today, not tomorrow necessarily, not 100 years from now but right now. We should not suffer any of this right now.

Well, the US must be so hard for you, but Somalia embraces all of these. No IRS, no Medicaid, no government! Just those sweet leader assassinations and the warm African desert. What's not to like?

And how much are we willing to bet that all of these services, the retirement, the health insurance, the police, how much are we willing to bet you use all of these? You can't escape taxes without revoking your citizenship, but at least you can be an honest anarchist and refuse to use any and all government services.

That includes both running water and electricity.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you please stop ruining people's fantasy with your facts?

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[dywolf]

But those bastards always melt away when push comes to Indictment, because they have _nothing_. If they did have anything, other than sound bites, they would seriously pursue Conspiracy charges

QFTMFT

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[dywolf]

again you prove your ignorance.

There are many legitimate government functions where they may want to call you, and the robocall law was clearly/ not aimed at blocking things like the IRS calling because you owe taxes, or FBI calling because they want to speak to you.

Such things are hardly tyranny, though twits like you apparently think the governments mere existence is tyranny.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

He'd probably consider the IRS to be tyrannical too. After all, quoth parody:

You see, I've just discovered, by my intellectual bravery,
That civic obligations are all tantamount to slavery;
And thus that ancient pastime, viz., complaining of taxation,
Assumes the glorious aspect of a war for liberation!

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Name just one, you rectal hemorrhage.

Somebody seems awfully far up Hillary's ass and it's no the OP..

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Archangel Michael]

Here is the problem, Liberals are saying "Clinton isn't guilty" (legal meaning) so they are going to vote for her, which sounds a lot like "I hired Casey Anthony to babysit" to me.

And if you bring up Trump, I'll simply say ... "pointing to bad behavior to justify bad behavior doesn't work on me"

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[roman_mir]

IRS is tyranny obviously, the government does not own you, so it does not own your income, not any part of it. FBI is tyranny as well.

As to robocalls from IRS - also clearly illegal.

As to being a twit, you have already shown yourself as one being anti-human anti-individual freedoms shit that you are.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[ultranova]

Government is a bunch of politicians, each one with their own agenda, each one trying to make some money/name for himself.[...]Tyranny of a collectivist government is worse than tyranny of a singular tyrant.

So which one is it? Is the government a bunch of individuals or a collective?

A tyrant can be taken down, even killed. How do you kill the hydra that is a collectivist government?

The fact that you can keep posting your rants about tyranny strongly implies you don't actually live under one.

But to answer your question: you can't. A society can't function without collective decision-making. No group of human beings can. And as the group becomes larger, coordinating its rules and activities becomes more complex and requires specialization, just like with any other task. At that point you need a government, and demonizing it doesn't make that need go away.

tl;dr Grow up.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

If the IRS or FBI wants to contact me directly to speak to me about a matter that requires talking to me directly, a human can pick up a phone and make the call. Or better yet, do it in writing or (in extreme cases) a personal visit. I am unlikely to trust anyone on the other end of an incoming phone call anyway and I will just hang up on them.

There are *zero* scenarios where the government (or anyone else) needs to robocall me. I'll say it again: ZERO.

If the government wants to reach a large number of people regarding natural disasters, amber alerts, etc., there are many broadcast avenues available to them to do so. If a private entity wants to reach a large number of people, the entire advertising industry exists just for this purpose. Using my personal and direct telephone number for this purpose is an unwelcome abuse of the system.

The practice needs to be banned, with criminal consequences, for anyone doing it.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[ultranova]

Here is the problem, Liberals are saying "Clinton isn't guilty" (legal meaning) so they are going to vote for her, which sounds a lot like "I hired Casey Anthony to babysit" to me.

Liberals are going to vote for Hillary because she's the closest thing to a liberal that's available. "Not guilty" is relevant because it affects availability.

And if you bring up Trump, I'll simply say ... "pointing to bad behavior to justify bad behavior doesn't work on me"

"Work on you" in what sense? Surely you don't think anyone expects you to change your political identity no matter what.

In any case voting for Hillary because you think Trump is worse (or the other way around) is perfectly valid reasoning. After all, US voting system is set up so that one of them will get the presidency. Pick the lesser evil, whoever you think that is.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the US must be so hard for you, but Somalia embraces all of these

in other words

Pick up that can, citizen. If you don't want to, move to Somalia!

He doesn't want Somalia's brand of "Freedom" he wants the one protected under the United States Constitution that stands against the government acting as a ruling class, rather it describes a government as "By the People, For the People" and if you don't like that, feel free to move to North Korea where your dear leader, who can do no wrong, is never questioned and is protected as a holy being.

You probably associate the government boots on your neck with erotic asphyxiation.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[Anonymous Coward]

IRS is tyranny obviously, the government does not own you, so it does not own your income, not any part of it.

Nope, it's documented that they are collecting taxes to pay for services rendered, if you want to reject that method, you can, but you have to pay for the services in some other way, or simply reject them.

FBI is tyranny as well.

Nope, it's a sworn law enforcement service.

As to robocalls from IRS - also clearly illegal.

Nope, though as a matter of fact, the IRS insists that they don't call people, as that's a route for scams.

As such, I'd say Robocalls purporting to be from the IRS are more of a problem.

As to being a twit, you have already shown yourself as one being anti-human anti-individual freedoms shit that you are.

You're the one who favors theft, murder, and outright deceit, instead of engaging in honest and deliberate conduct with others in order to achieve a just end, you leap to the most vicious methods possible while purporting to nobility.

That makes you a twit, sir. At least admit to your derangement.

Re:Well with Hillary immune from

[roman_mir]

So which one is it? Is the government a bunch of individuals or a collective?

- the system of government based on this mobocracy is collectivist and you are well aware of that. It is collectivist in the idiotic ideology and many of the outcomes - taking from those who are working and redistributing to those who are not. Taking from those who have more and redistributing to ... whoever, the vast majority of the redistribution goes towards buying the individual politicians more power.

Of-course individual politicians in government want to gain from the system, so they would absolutely abuse any form of free (to them) advertising and abuse that goes together with robocalls.

The fact that you can keep posting your rants about tyranny strongly implies you don't actually live under one.

- I was born in one, I managed to escape and from then on I decided not to be a slave to any collective, which is why my business and strategy, assets, movement is structured in such a way as to avoid all of your collectivist ideals.

But to answer your question: you can't. A society can't function without collective decision-making.

- right, as I said, the collectivist hydra is very difficult or maybe impossible to destroy from the outside, however it will destroy itself from the inside because its own collectivist ideology is going to destroy it. The hydra lives as long as it can feed itself, but as any parasite, it will destroy the host economy and society and will die.

A society can't function without collective decision-making. No group of human beings can.

- sure, we are making 'collective decisions' every time we decide to buy a product, to start a company, to save money, to spend money, the bigger the pull to one side, the more chances that the side wins. However this absolutely does not require any deity government, any form of 'intelligent design', because the so called intelligent design is based solely on violence, on initiating force by the collective against the individual. This works for a short period of time, where the length of the period is very much proportional to the length of the time that preceded it, and it is the time that preceded it, the time of much greater individual freedom that builds the wealth that the collective forms around in order to steal it.

Basically any collectivist government forms around wealth that can be stolen but this wealth is first generated by the preceding work of the individuals, who built the wealth while the government was much less collective.

I am not just demonizing it, I am predicting its ultimate and unavoidable demise. It will die as it kills the economic host it rides and the former economic USA host is on its last legs.

Any More Questions About why Hillary is Not Guilty

[Anonymous Coward]

Congress Often exempts them selves from Laws.
Insider trading, sexual harassment.
Law that cover them tend to be weakened.

Of course not

[Anonymous Coward]

The ruling does not apply to lawmakers who are using the calls for political campaigns.

Of course it doesn't, that behavior is already allowed.

harassment

[Anonymous Coward]

unsolicited calls by anyone are harassment by indirect collusion since everyone and their ceo/director/etc want you on their call lists, and gov't being exempt is just legalized harassment.

to paraphrase 'death by a thousand cuts' we have 'harassment by a thousand phone calls nobody asked for'.

owning a phone should not be an automatic opt-in for being harassed.

fuck telemarketers, fuck all robo-callers in general, fuck the gov't and their fucking contractors. go to hell and leave us the fuck alone, you entitled assholes.

Shrugged again, alas

[harvey the nerd]

Punitive laws and distraints primarily apply to Little People, as so recently demonstrated, again.

Re:Shrugged again, alas

[fustakrakich]

Such is all of human history... One young punk tried to tell the world has changed, and I had to reply, no it hasn't, it has just accelerated.

Re:Shrugged again, alas

[Anonymous Coward]

But the government has gotten more sophisticated in its legal jargon on why they are different from everyone else: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity_in_the_United_States

The fact is that sovereign immunity makes the a joke of the checks and balances that are suppose to keep the three branches of government from running amok. If the law only applies to the government when the government feels like letting the law apply, then what's the point?

Re:Shrugged again, alas

[SuperRenaissanceMan]

Such is all of human history... One young punk tried to tell the world has changed, and I had to reply, no it hasn't, it has just accelerated.

By definition, isn't acceleration just change in velocity?

Re:Shrugged again, alas

[Archangel Michael]

"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - unknown origin

(Not Thomas Jefferson, as often attributed)

Re:Shrugged again, alas

[Anonymous Coward]

"Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry." - unknown origin

(Not Thomas Jefferson, as often attributed)

That's a bad definition then.

Robocall laws are a joke

[seven of five]

I get BS robocalls all the time and the IRS is gonna sue me. Fly-by-night robocall companies thumb their nose at the law and operate almost as if it didn't exist.

Re:Robocall laws are a joke

[Gavagai80]

Either you're unlucky or you have a poor memory. The number of calls I get is dramatically lower since the do not call list.

Re:Robocall laws are a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

The majority of the calls do not originate within the US. Ignore what caller ID tells you, it is commonly forged - get a etrunk line (24 voice lines) and you can set it to whatever you'd like. If that's too expensive, there are web sites where for a few bucks it will set it to whatever for you during that call.

Overseas providers sell packages to places like Pakistan telemarketers to re-route their calls to a US termination point without using the PTSN until it gets to their site. If the CCP gets popped (rare) then they just shrug, say "We didn't know, so sorry!" and pull that account. The perps don't even miss a beat as their systems are set to roll over to the next provider seamlessly. You often find old spammers in this trade now.

The only way a consumer can be sure of where a call originates from is if they use their own phone to call themselves. If it's international and not one of the "eight eyes" countries (where the US has espionage agreements in place) then forget about even the NSA tracing the call in real time. They -might- figure it out after 60 days or so, depending on a lot of factors.

Re:Robocall laws are a joke

[nitehawk214]

The scam calls were already illegal. So of course they don't care about robocall laws.

However, having a mobile phone only means I don't recall the last time I received one of those.

Perhaps someone got your financial details and is directing scams at you? Not sure how to deal with that level of identity theft.

Re:Robocall laws are a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

One way to get around robocall laws is to simply switch to a "click-to-dial" method.

Instead of the system automatically dialing, the caller clicks a button to initiate the call.

So, you would, for example, install a VICIdial system, load a campaign and then the agent logs in to a web interface which allows them to click a button to initiate a call to the next person in the list.

Another option is to immediately route the called party to a live agent as soon as voice is detected. This gives the appearance of not being a robocall. The problem with this method is that you have to tweak the calls:agent ratio just right.

Proving that a robocall was made is hard to do, especially since VICIdial (and similar systems) have perfectly legitimate uses other than robocalling. These systems are full blown call center software suites so just proving that they are using one of these systems is not enough.

Re:Robocall laws are a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

get a etrunk line (24 voice lines) and you can set it to whatever you'd like.

In addition to that, most VoIP carriers allow you to set whatever number you like in the SIP headers. This means you can change the caller id to anything you want on a per call basis.

I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of robocalls these days are from VoIP systems. The bar for entry is so small. The software is open source and all you need is a consumer-grade Internet connection. The hardest part is obtaining a quality call list to load.

Leave it to the government...

[Nunya666]

...to make a worthless law even more worthless.

Thank goodness my call blocker can block this crap! I like mine so much that I bought one as a gift for my parents.

Shoes get your Shoes

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm calling to ask if you're willing meet at the town hall to discuss . will keep you on solid ground and your feet dry. is an important issue the current lawmakers are failing to address. Do you prefer solid ground over shaky ground? Press "1" to support 's solid foundation. We offer a free pair of shoes with every donation.

More fun times ahead

[Archfeld]

The best method to discourage sales or political calls is to engage them in useless time consuming discussion about imaginary family or to request a moment to get a pen, and put the phone down for minutes then return with a pen, that mysteriously won't write, ramble on like a dementia afflicted individual. It takes a bit of time but can be quite amusing and I've found it to be very effective. Often informing the other side that you are recording the conversation for future entertainment purposes will discourage them as well.

Re:More fun times ahead

[JoeMerchant]

Now is the time when we need to demand more citizen/voter accountability for the FCC from our elected representatives... a government agency declaring that the government is above the law for something as non-critical to government function as RoboCalling? It's time for some unreasonable response...

Re:More fun times ahead

[bloodhawk]

good luck engaging a recorded message in a useless time consuming discussion.

Re:More fun times ahead

[Archfeld]

Any suggestions ?

Re:More fun times ahead

[Opportunist]

Indeed, informing the other side that the call is recorded and will go straight to my YouTube channel usually shortens the call duration and reduces the number of repeat offenses considerably.

Re:More fun times ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

I suggest a modernized equivalent to the Boston Tea party where you recruit some interns to sneak into one of the government telemarketing callcenters and dump a shipload of their telephones on the pavement out back.

Re:More fun times ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

With Background noises of Elephants trumpeting, toilet fart and flushing noises.Plenty of youtube vids how to waste call center time including plane dings and 'all passengers must turn off all electronic devices for takeoff' .

Re:More fun times ahead

[dinfinity]

Obligatory Lenny reference:
http://www.independent.co.uk/l...

We should really be using machine learning to create the ultimate anti telemarketeer chatbot. On the other hand, if there is one set of interactions that would drive AI to want to destroy humanity, it is this one.

Re:More fun times ahead

[JoeMerchant]

Force the issue in Congress, set up RoboCalling centers overseas in non-extradition countries and blast anyone with any kind of connection to lawmakers with a sustained "campaign message" that RoboCalling should be banned. Hit their personal cell phones, hit their e-mail accounts, spoof addresses to appear like they're coming from their home district. You know, all the things that RoboCallers do already.

Re:More fun times ahead

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that reading the article is unfashionable around these parts, but did you even read the headline? This is about robocalls. How are you supposed to engage a recording in useless time consuming discussion?

Re:More fun times ahead

[Obfuscant]

The best method to discourage sales or political calls is to engage them in useless time consuming discussion

So they push the button that says they weren't able to contact you and your number goes back into the pool to be called again (sometimes within five minutes or less), and they hang up. You've wasted your time answering the call and trying to talk to them. The predictive dialer has handed them another victim to talk to before you have time to hang up the phone.

Congrats, they won that round.

Why do you even need them these days?

[muphin]

With the Internet, Email, SMS .... why do you even need robocalls these days with so many areas to access information?

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[Anonymous Coward]

With the Internet, Email, SMS .... why do you even need robocalls these days with so many areas to access information?

Because ninety-five percent of people doing robocalls are crooks, scumbags, and scammers. And most older, retired people (their chosen mark) still use telephones as a primary means of communication.

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[JoeMerchant]

The main robocall we get is from our county school district, but that's because we let them.

The other 60% of robocalls are annoying as f___ sales idiots who couldn't manage to close a sale even if we were interested in their offering. Any endeavor that annoys 10,000 people for every one that might be interested needs to stop. Of course, that would attack television advertising at its core, so I suppose that's a losing battle.

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[Opportunist]

Because cat videos and 9gag don't inform you about a hurricane coming your way. Just because people COULD get relevant information doesn't mean they DO.

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[mysidia]

most older, retired people (their chosen mark) still use telephones

Still use landlines.... why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[Chelloveck]

Because ninety-five percent of people doing robocalls are crooks, scumbags, and scammers.

But this article is about robocalls made by the government-- Oh, I see your point.

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[Obfuscant]

why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?

For the same reason they target random email addresses. The cost is essentially zero and any rate of success is a win for them.

Re:Why do you even need them these days?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still use landlines.... why do they target unlisted cell phone numbers?

They probably don't. Robocaller software simply calls a specified block of numbers, say xxx-0000 through xxx-9999. If there are any unpublished numbers or numbers on do not call lists in the block, they get called too. The robocallers are already breaking the law so they simply don't care.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[pete6677]

Nope: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

Don't expect help from the government.

[fustakrakich]

We are simply on our own.

If you can, get a caller ID machine that allows you to create a white list of numbers that can get through and send all others straight to the answering machine which you can later blacklist from getting in at all. Works for email, I whitelist my inbox in order to take care of old business before wrestling with new business going into the spam box.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or just use an Android phone that blocks all calls from people not in your contact list.

problem solved.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Anonymous Coward]

PBX equipment is the best for this, in theory but I just can't find enough information online to implement it. All the documentation I sifted through when I came across a Voip phone focuses on connecting me to the internet, when I just wanted to use the phone hardware as a dumb terminal with no internet access, and just connect to the regular telephone network. What I would have gained is personalized mailboxes and greetings, unlimited blocking (as opposed to my house phone near-useless 30-number limit for blocking) and some knowledge of how to bring business IT to the home. Numerous online offers focus on businesses, but not on how one might dabble on Voip without the IP.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah you can blacklist Amber Alerts, Emergency Weather Alerts all that COMPLETELY USELESS stuff.

What fantasy world are you guys living in? The government does not spam people. You're mad at something that doesn't happen.

Automation is a good thing EXCEPT when it's abuse. You can't hate automation just for the sake of automation, that's not a valid sane person concern. We will ignore you.

We block robocalls because they became abusive, if they had not, we would not have blocked them. Pretty simple. If states try to robocall citizens and abuse that automation, maybe you will have a case, but I suspect government HAS to be allowed to contact citizens and automated means would be acceptable because there is no reason it shouldn't be.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[fustakrakich]

I should be able to block any calls I want. Are you trying to say I shouldn't allowed to? That's pretty weird thinking there, bub. Should I be forced to keep my webcam on with the mic open also?

You can't hate automation just for the sake of automation

Nobody is saying that. You're just goofing on us

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Opportunist]

No, of course you should be allowed to block the hurricane warning. At the same time, you should, if you choose to do so, not expect any kind of compensation from your insurance.

Idiocy should not be rewarded.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[mysidia]

What fantasy world are you guys living in? The government does not spam people.

Yes, they do. Or rather, Politican candidates (Often incumbents re-running for office)
Generate a hell of a lot of spam, every time there is an election coming up, and there are also always at least 3 or 4 calls for some voter survey too.

Now, not all of these are done under the auspicies of the government, but often there will be at least 3 or 4 messages from the local incumbent regarding Town hall meeting, "reminder to vote", etc.

They are annoying...... we don't need the FCC saying the local government is exempt from the rules for such trivial contacts which are for Non-Emergency / Non-Essential purposes, Not even being used to make an announcement, other than to try and get someone currently in office re-elected, mostly.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[mysidia]

if you choose to do so, not expect any kind of compensation from your insurance.

That is Grade A Horse shit right there. Insurance compensation is for a loss IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER contingent on the policyholder receiving advance notice about a hurricane warning.

Insurance is also In No Way Whatsoever dependent on the policyholder's behavior before the loss.

It's not as if a hurricane is more likely to strike when you ignore or don't receive the notice.

You're not even required to own a telephone or communications device, let alone be listening for alerts.

Anyways, there is no way to take a hurricane warning and wave a magic wand to prevent damage. The purpose of having hurricane warnings, is so that people in danger will know If and when they need to evacuate or stay inside. Thay way fewer people get killed by floodwaters, high winds, or impaled by debris or objects falling on them.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Attila Dimedici]

In which case, you should consider them beneficial for reminding you who the incumbent is, then you have no excuse for voting for them.

You do know the first rule of voting, don't you? "When in doubt, vote the Ins Out"
Or to put it another way, you should either vote for or against (usually against) the incumbent. Never vote against the challenger. The only time you should vote for the incumbent is if the incumbent has done something which gives you a compelling reason to vote for them. If the incumbent has not done something which makes you an enthusiastic supporter, vote against them.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Opportunist]

You have an insurance that doesn't care whether you were negligent? Awesome, please inform me where I could get something like that! I always wanted to have a car insurance the pays even if I'm speeding while drunk!

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[operagost]

Moron, homeowner's insurance doesn't expect you to protect your house from hurricanes. That's pretty much impossible. What are you supposed to do, pick up your house and move it away when you get the warning?

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[fustakrakich]

You ever been in a hurricane? They don't just suddenly pop up on top of you... Satellite pics are pretty easy to come by. And we have radio... These days the biggest danger from hurricanes comes from the crappy match stick house of cards built below(!) sea level. Tornado watches were delivered by a great big siren. Robocalls are hardly adequate for delivering emergency messages. Sometimes the old ways are superior. Plain old radio and the EBS. It's far more robust than a downed telephone line. For cell phones, there's an app, right? And SMS? There's teletype/FAX also. No, the issue here is advertising. And there's no stopping your congress person's campaign is what the FCC is saying. So, I'm back to my original statement, we are on our own. We have the technology to deal with it peacefully, so it's not a big deal.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Opportunist]

What my insurance expects is me doing what can reasonably be expected from someone to mitigate damages. I'm expected to not drive while drunk. Also, having a grand open fire BBQ right under the old, wooden doorframe I just gave a new coat of paint with that "flammable" labeled paint might not be something my fire insurance looks kindly at.

But, again, if you know of any that allow you to be a total moron and act like one, yet still pay in full, please share that knowledge with me. Though I fear that either the premiums are unaffordable or they go out of business soon...

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[mysidia]

What my insurance expects is me doing what can reasonably be expected from someone to mitigate damages. I'm expected to not drive while drunk.

Driving while drunk is not like a hurricane. There's nothing you can do about a hurricane, without unreasonable cost at least... You could build a concrete hurricane defense wall, But not in the 72 hours advance, And Insurance cannot require extra expenditures for coverage --- You are covered AS-IS.. Driving while drunk is Unlawful behavior that caused the damage; different ballgame.

Of course, in the case of drunk driving, your insurance should not repay you for damage that you willfully caused to your own property, and willfully and voluntarily engaging in illegal behavior that had that as a foreseeable consequence should be considered willful self-damage.

But yes, if you drive while drunk, then I still expect your insurance to pay for DAMAGE YOU DO TO OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE.

They should also pay (Both liability, And collission) if you spontaneously fall unconscious at the wheel and an accident results.

Also, the act of crashing into me was probably involuntary on your part, so your insurer should not expect you to fork over the money either for driving while drunk ---- this is part of the insured risk, But I guess it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, as long as the victim gets paid promptly.

If it's not part of the insured risk for liability insurance, then the Auto insurance companies sure are gouging us......

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[ultranova]

No, of course you should be allowed to block the hurricane warning. At the same time, you should, if you choose to do so, not expect any kind of compensation from your insurance.

Your insurance won't pay if you won't listen to telemarketers? Maybe you should think the implications of your position through a bit more carefully.

Re: Don't expect help from the government.

[Opportunist]

Reductio ad absurdum? This early in the conversation?

Laws are for Little People

[Anonymous Coward]

Do as I say, not as I do.

Do you Americans realize yet that your entire country is a giant SCAM?

The only good thing about this shitty iphone...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the ability to block any caller for any reason. I even have amber alerts blocked. If I don't want to hear from you, I don't. Simple as that.

Fuck the government

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't do shit for the man on the street. If you aren't ready to stop listening to the two party lie by now then you're a stupid motherfucker who deserves yo get his ball stomped until they're mush.

Vote third party and tell the Dumb-o-Fucks and RepukeliCunts to shove their policies and lies right up their ass.

Hello.

[PPH]

This is Lenny.

On what fucking grounds?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the people decide they don't want to be robocalled, then that includes the gov't, who fucking serve the people! If there is an emergency then go through the proper channels! Stop this shit!

Re:On what fucking grounds?

[Opportunist]

Just out of curiosity, what are the proper channels?

Re:On what fucking grounds?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...

Do-Not-Call-List

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, what does it matter. I'm on the National Do-Not-Call-List, but I get daily calls telemarketing robocalls. Sure, I've certainly reported them... in googling the phone numbers, so have hundreds of other people within a few hours of myself. If laws aren't enforced, it might as well not be a law. A certain presidential candidate knows this!

Just USA?

[quenda]

Is this a peculiarly American problem? I don't think I've ever had a robo-call in my life in Australia, unless you count the ones that connect you to a call-centre operator a second or two after you answer. SMS spam, yes. Plenty of charities begging, some sales calls that got past the "do not call" register, and the occasional overseas scam call. But always human, never a recording.

    Do any counties other than the US - oh, and presumably Canada, have this problem?

Re:Just USA?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a peculiarly american problem as we have never had a per-call tarrif for local calls from landlines.

Re:Just USA?

[radarskiy]

"we have never had a per-call tarrif for local calls from landlines"

For small values of never. I'm old enough to remember the pages of tariffs in the front of the phone book, which could even vary from one central office to another.

Re:Just USA?

[Anonymous Coward]

I get 5-10 calls per week on my landline, usually about one per day. If I pick up, I'll get a recorded message, usually trying to sound official "this is Rachel from card services", or "this is credit card services, we're calling about your account". If I were to engage, I'd eventually be transferred to a scammer. When it is instead not a scam, it's a spam.

On my cellphone these are about 2 per month.

Because many of the robo dialers will hang up once they detect they are talking to an answering machine, my answering machine always has several messages on it, most of them being several seconds of silence. This has made answering machines totally useless to me.

If they start on my cell phone, I don't really know what to do next.

Re:Just USA?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never had one in the US. YMMV.

Re:Just USA?

[Obfuscant]

I don't think I've ever had a robo-call in my life in Australia, unless you count the ones that connect you to a call-centre operator a second or two after you answer.

Why wouldn't you count those? Those certainly are robocalls. Predictive dialers make the call and then pass you off to the first available human scam artist.

If you're thinking only of the "call and play a recorded message" abuses as "robocalls", then you ought to know that predictive dialers/human scum are even worse than recorded messages. Getting calls that immediately hang up on you because there wasn't a human ready to patch in is worse than the stock recorded message.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[Anonymous Coward]

The rest of the proles can pay to avoid such treatment. Pay a fee to sign up for TSA PreCheck and you'll get pre-911 levels of security. Proof that the security checks are a sham. If you've lost your job or wife the day before and are planning on taking something out, the normal line might catch you. But since you paid for PreCheck a few years earlier, you'll make it through the security line.

As for politicians and board of directors, they never use public planes so they never go through airport security.

phone numbers are transient and disposable

[TheGratefulNet]

with sim cards being easy to buy, its not hard to change your number often.

I've gotton on some prank lists where I was getting nuissance calls.

I dropped that number. buh-BYE. end of story.

phone is not even the main channel of comms anymore. 20 yrs ago it was. today, everyone has a more perm email and phone numbers can, and do, change. I'm and older guy and even I am ok with throwing away phone numbers and restarting, should I get on a 'annoy this guy by calling and not taking no' list.

we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru. when I had a landline, I used modem callerid and a unix daemon. now, most people just have cell phone #'s and the app I use is 'mrnumber' (yeah, lol). it lets me put a select switch between calls and me.

this is what it comes to. like online ads, its a war and we users are left to fend for ourselves. at least we now have good tools to defend ourselves from.

the part about the gov granting itself more rights, yeah, well, that's fully expected given the trajectory the US (and ROW) is headed. sad but its not unexpected. and since we have no control over our gov's (no one, anywhere in the world, does) we are stuck with what they all grew into. this crap where the system rewards itself and cares nothing about the people, themselves.

Re:phone numbers are transient and disposable

[radarskiy]

"its not hard to change your number often"
Unless there are people that you *do* want to receive calls from.

"we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"
But if everyone *else* is changing their numbers frequently, how do you know what numbers to whitelist?

Re:phone numbers are transient and disposable

[Anonymous Coward]

Just don't care. Email works.

The trend for messaging services to use phone numbers as identifying tokens it really strange imo. Just another reason not to use TGram, WApp and the rest...

Re:phone numbers are transient and disposable

[mysidia]

"we can also have devices that whitelist and let ring thru"

What happens when the robocallers realize that we are whitelisting, and start using 'confirmed lists of valid phone numbers to call', then start a brute-force attack with caller IDs working on making 10 billion calls to each phone number: if we don't answer (Each time spoofing a different incremental Caller ID, in the hopes that they figure out one of the whitelisted CIDs and then suddenly get through) ?

Re:phone numbers are transient and disposable

[Zontar_Thing_From_Ve]

with sim cards being easy to buy, its not hard to change your number often.

I've gotton on some prank lists where I was getting nuissance calls.

I dropped that number. buh-BYE. end of story.

I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA and that you don't work in IT. Both apply to me. This is not as easy to do as you claim for a lot of us. First of all, while you can buy SIM cards in the USA, it's difficult. US mobile telephone service isn't really setup to work this way. Everybody expects you to sign a contract with a carrier for a certain number of years. Just walking down to some local electronics store and buying a SIM card off the shelf is not at all how things work in the USA. You have to go to carriers to get SIM cards here and those aren't really setup to be pay as you. You can do that sort of thing if you're willing to use crap disposable phones like with Tracfone, but not so much if you actually have a good phone.

Secondly, I'm assuming that your work doesn't need to contact you. I work for a support team on a specific product that my employer, and Fortune 500 company, sells. I only support the one product out of many we offer, but our customer base expects and pays for 24x7 availability. Our contracts allow us to do maintenance at one specific time frame on weekends but if we are down outside of that, we lose money. My employer expects me to be available 24x7 in case of emergencies even if I'm not on call and we rotate on call duties every week. I simply can't willy nilly change my phone number every few weeks or months on a whim. We've had people change phone numbers and they have to send out emails to a lot of people making sure that they say when the new phone number will go into effect and update internal contact lists about it. It's not something anybody wants to do more than once every year or two.

And finally, it must be nice that you have no friends or family who want to contact you by phone. Do you remember to tell everybody you actually do care about that you have a new number? What if they forget? What if they are older? I've got a step-mother who I stay in touch with and she is often telling me about having problems trying to get in touch with my brother, who changed his phone number well over a year ago. I think she may be dialing an old number for him, but she swears she's using the new one and she lives hours away from where I live so I can't be there to see what she is actually doing. So yea, hooray for you that your work doesn't need to talk to nor do you have any personal relationships where anybody else does either.

Re:phone numbers are transient and disposable

[Fnord666]

I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA and that you don't work in IT. Both apply to me. This is not as easy to do as you claim for a lot of us. First of all, while you can buy SIM cards in the USA, it's difficult. US mobile telephone service isn't really setup to work this way. Everybody expects you to sign a contract with a carrier for a certain number of years. Just walking down to some local electronics store and buying a SIM card off the shelf is not at all how things work in the USA. You have to go to carriers to get SIM cards here and those aren't really setup to be pay as you. You can do that sort of thing if you're willing to use crap disposable phones like with Tracfone, but not so much if you actually have a good phone.

I'm assuming that you don't live in the USA either, because your facts are way out of date. I just ordered a couple of new SIMs off of Amazon yesterday to swap out on phones.
Here are a couple of examples.

• AT&T
• T-Mobile
• Straight Talk

corrected headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Entire Federal Government Exempt From Laws

why are contractors included?

[Anonymous Coward]

If the ruling is that the government is exempt, why are contractors given the same exemption? Shouldn't this ruling apply ONLY to gorverning officials, not companies that they contract?

Re:why are contractors included?

[dywolf]

the government is exempt when it is performing government business.
since much of that business is contracted out, it makes sense to also exempt those actually carrying it out.
this should not be a hard concept, even for an AC.

Yeah, so?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just how is this different from the previous exemptions they've already had for robocalling?

If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[zenlessyank]

less rules? Every day man lords over man with 35 new laws every day. US Gov has laws for us. The state has laws for us. The county has laws for us. The city has laws for us. 27 diff US federal entities have laws for us (DEA, CIA, FBI, FCC, FAA, etc.). This getting fucking retarded. FUCK YOUR ROBOCALLER. I ain't answering shit. And I am blocking you. /rantoff

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Anonymous Coward]

If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have less rules?

You must be new here and not gotten the SJW memo. More is better in the new socialist nanny state world order. Less is BAAADD!!

Besides, do you really want your friendly congresscritter and neighborhood sh... lawyer be out of a job?

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Opportunist]

Mostly 'cause his rules make even LESS sense than the crap our government spits out . Ever read Deuteronomy 14 or Exodus 34? That shit makes copyright law looks sensible and sane, and our drug laws are very non-arbitrary in comparison.

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Anonymous Coward]

Mostly 'cause his rules make even LESS sense than the crap our government spits out . Ever read Deuteronomy 14 or Exodus 34? That shit makes copyright law looks sensible and sane, and our drug laws are very non-arbitrary in comparison.

Made me contemplate the possibility of genetically engineering pigs and sea creatures so they fit the requirements, so you could sell them to devout Abrahamic monotheists as clean food. Like a lobster with fins and scales.

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Opportunist]

I guess that would be covered by Deuteronomy 14:3, the "don't eat abomination" part.

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, I never thought about the possibility of creating kosher pork!

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Bob the Super Hamste]

I guess that would be covered by Deuteronomy 14:3, the "don't eat abomination" part.

So Canadian Geese are out then?

Re:If God Is Such A Bad Guy Then Why Does He Have

[Opportunist]

Pretty much Canadian anything is out.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to be a retarded voters to vote to have your own government not be able to call you with low cost automated methods.

You have to really really stupid to think you should be free from government calls.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[fustakrakich]

Why?

Add to reject list

[Anonymous Coward]

'Nuff said!

Opportunity!

[Anonymous Coward]

I read this notice as saying I can create a company to robocall the federal government.

Look for my kickstarter so I can keep as many of these bureaucrats phone busy as possible. Suggestions on who to start with? FCC?

Hillary for Prison 2016! Now more than ever!

True enough

[Archfeld]

Got a point there, but I rarely get a true robo call except for political ads, they are usually a robo dialer connecting for a human after you answer.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[SirSlud]

The voters are responsible for it. The "my government is the enemy" mentality basically absolves them by default. Nobody rightly takes actual issues with abuse of power seriously at this point, because according to the electorate, everything they do is wrong.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[SirSlud]

I don't. I mean, I take off my shoes, but do you get nudie scanned and freedom-groped? I'm hardly a congressperson.

Captcha

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I can't wait until my phone has a captcha. "To make this phone ring, please type in the answer to this question: Which Star Trek movie is the best?"

Re:Captcha

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait until my phone has a captcha. "To make this phone ring, please type in the answer to this question: Which Star Trek movie is the best?"

Nope, close though.

With our Telemarketer Block, inbound callers will hear an automated message which will require them to press a specific key (1-9) in order for your phone to ring.

What do the Spam Call Filter categories indicate? (Low, Medium, High.)

Spam vs Telemarketer Block

Re:Captcha - Which Star Trek movie is the best?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait until my phone has a captcha. "To make this phone ring, please type in the answer to this question: Which Star Trek movie is the best?"

The one with Darth Vader in it.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Opportunist]

Because emergency information? Duh.

With more and more people kicking out TVs (which is absolutely understandable), please tell me of a way to inform a large amount of people of a danger in their area. And note that you don't have a few thousand people standing by to call everyone, this ain't the 50s, phone operators are a thing of the past.

Baaa

[Anonymous Coward]

"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others."

In my Western democratic country, Judges, members of parliament and members of the cabinet are immune from prosecuction.

I'm sure it's as widespread as privately owned Central Banks.

Slashdot, you'll have to try a little harder to outrage (some of) us.

If they are exempt...

[treczoks]

Does that mean they are exempt from the protection of it, too? I.e. are you allowed to robocall the government?

This is not meant as a joke, but as a serious question. But the answer I'm thinking of might lead to interesting results...

Re:If they are exempt...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't we do this when we can't get through and we sit there and hit re-dial when the busy signal is heard?

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Zontar The Mindless]

<sarcasm>Why can't they just post it to FB like everyone else these days?</sarcasm>

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[Zontar The Mindless]

As for politicians and board of directors, they never use public planes so they never go through airport security.

Hate to mess up a good rant, but...:

United States Congressman Larry McDonald from Georgia, who at the time was also the second president of the conservative John Birch Society, was on the flight. Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina, Senator Steve Symms of Idaho, and Representative Carroll Hubbard of Kentucky were aboard sister flight KAL 015, which flew 15 minutes behind KAL 007...

Just so we're clear

[Anonymous Coward]

Corporations: People
Federal Government: Not People

Got it.

Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Congre

[raymorris]

First, this isn't about emergencies, it's about solicitations. Specifically, asking donors and other likely supporters to participate in "town halls" hosted by the politician.

More importantly, Congress is supposed to make the law, notbthe Obama administration. Congress duly passed the law saying government contractors may use robocalls "solely to collect a debt owed to or guaranteed by the United States." It further instructed the FCC publish detauled rules about that one exception that Congress allowed. Congress could have allowed other exceptions; they chose not to. The FCC has decided to pretend the actual law passed by Congress doesn't exist and the FCC gets to make the law.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm certain that good samaritan laws already cover that.

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[Opportunist]

And yes, that should be disallowed. But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.

Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because emergency information? Duh.

With more and more people kicking out TVs ...

There is a reason why people are kicking TVs outof their homes. One of them being that they do not want to be (constantly) bombarded by info they did not ask for*.

*if you think "emergency information"** is important to you you can simply sign up for the service.

**just watch out for re-definitions that will cause three drops of rain in the next state to be(come) "emergency information" too ...

And now the guberment takes/keeps the right to call you up because they think there is something you simply "must know" ?

I don't want to receive gouverment robo calls on my phone the same way I do not want to recieve {insert product peddling companies} robo calls on them either.

As for robo calls themselves ? Thats not even the actual problem -- as long as you asked for them and can stop them as easily.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[RabidReindeer]

I have no reason to believe that people are kicking out their TVs, It's merely that now there are far more things to hook up a TV to than a handful of broadcast networks. You can no longer just commandeer the Big 3 networks and get the word out. The S.A.M.E. system works for people with weather radios, but a lot more people have telephones than have weather radios, where alert-friendly radios or otherwise.

The Federal, State, and local governments have thus far limited their robocalling to bona-fide emergency situations. That is, within 24 hours you need to Do Something, and specifically, what you should do.

I can live with that. If you cannot, perhaps we can set you up on a Do Not Call/Let Them Perish list.

I'll join you if/when I start getting robocalls about politicians holding "town meetings" or government contractors peddling their own wares, but until that happens, I prefer to get critical information unobstructed.

Actually I already do get robocalls on "town meetings", but it's because political candidates and charities have an existing loophole in the Do Not Call list anyway. Although I'm pretty sure that legally they're supposed to be live calls.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Opportunist]

Why do I have that feeling that you'd be one of those people who lament endlessly that government didn't tell them that a tornado was coming their way and they didn't get their house prepared...

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe because you don't seem to be a very intelligent person. Honestly, if you're often asking yourself "Why am I thinking this dumb thing...", then it's probably because you're dumb.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Ol Olsoc]

Why do I have that feeling that you'd be one of those people who lament endlessly that government didn't tell them that a tornado was coming their way and they didn't get their house prepared...

There are many ways to get weather notices. A NOAA radio is a great way. http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/co...

You can get the info direct from them using either an app or a radio like this one: http://www.northerntool.com/sh...

This is a superior method to telephones, which in emergencies are often not accessible. Smartphones are cool and all, but I wouldn't trust my life to one.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[fustakrakich]

Do people still jump and pick up the phone every time it rings? I know I don't. In fact, during meal time and when I'm asleep I put it on silent. I am unreachable by telephone during those times.

The more I think about it, robocalls aren't such a big deal. We have the tech to block them. So, I guess the issue is resolved.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[rickb928]

Around here, they commandeer the cable systems to deliver emergency notifications, and this then imposes these warnings on every channel. Even the ones you aren't subscribed to.

The government isn't going to let you escape their control until you make them.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[RabidReindeer]

By your logic, I guess Paul Revere was an oppressive abuser of power, then.

Re: Is in *my* phone or not ?

[rickb928]

By your logic, Paul Revere sounded the alarm throughout Massachusetts...

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you didn't read my

if you think "emergency information" is important to you you can simply sign up for the service.

that I also posted.

Preferrably a service which lets you choose which emergencies and/or how severe an emergency it must be before you get notified.

Ofcourse, if that guberment could decide on a single sourcing phone number (just as they have done with 911 as a single target number) to send all those robo call messages from than I maybe could agree with it -- when you decide those calls to be more obnoxious than helpful than you can at least block that particular number.

Re:Is in *my* phone or not ?

[Obfuscant]

Around here, they commandeer the cable systems to deliver emergency notifications, and this then imposes these warnings on every channel. Even the ones you aren't subscribed to.

If you aren't subscribed to it, how do you know the notification appears there? Hmm???

In fact, on modern systems, the notification appears on one channel (when it is a required cable system test and not just the local station) and your cable box is instructed remotely to tune to that channel. It is then supposed to be instructed to tune back when the test is over, but sometimes that fails. It seems to be a setting in the local system, because my HD Homerun system would switch to but not back from the notice until I called them and they contacted Comcast.

And IIRC, the law requires that channel to be available on a standard analog channel for people who don't have digital service in a system. That was CSPAN in our system. For a long time after Comcast went all-digital, the two analog channels you could still get on a standard old TV were the channel telling you that everything had moved to digital and you needed to call Comcast for a digital adapter, and CSPAN.

Re: Is in *my* phone or not ?

[rickb928]

On Prism, it banners and sounds an alarm on the channel your watching. Change and the other channels also have the banner and alarm. People who have premium channels I don't tell me they get the warnings.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just BULLSHIT! There should be NO advertising calls(including political BS calls and charitable organizations begging for money!) allowed to be made to ANY phone (cell or land line)! The only way to get a cell phone number should be for the owner to give it to someone. And anyone that passes that number on for any reason should get a huge fine and long jail sentence for each instance.

I should only ever get a call or text from those who I have given my number. I treat ALL robocalls/texts as unwanted advertising and hang up/delete them without listening or reading at all if they don't come from my family or friends. If its from a number that I don't instantly recognize, it gets no attention at all.

Captcha

[xaroulawoj]

The Chapta for me is something so useless and stupid.

Weird Calls

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of really weird calls that I've been receiving on my business line lately. The calls are automated recordings. The content sounds like radio advertisements, but its for government agencies and programs. The recordings last several minutes and advertise numerous unrelated services and programs of the U.S. federal government.

So what?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not news that laws often do not apply to the ones making them.

But in this case, they do not seem to be enforcing the law much at all.
Everybody I know seems to get a couple of unwanted robocalls a day on their cell.
It would be news if they did something to make these rare.

So private prisons are exempt too?

[tlambert]

So private prisons are exempt too? After all, they are government contractors.

Because it's pretty popular to use prisoners for outbound telesales calls...

"Sovereign Immunity" unamerican

[redelm]

While entrenched in British Common Law, the very notion of "soverreign immunity" is completely contradictory with the founding principles of the United States. The idea was whatever powers (sovereigns) were subject to limitations.

To now claim "sovereign immunity" is merely a complete about-face, and very likely corrupt.

Re:"Sovereign Immunity" unamerican

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, the founders didn't think so, considering how they passed the 11th Amendment affirming the principle as soon as a case (Chisholm v. Georgia) challenging it arose. Bear in mind, the Constitution was a whopping 7 years old at this point and this occurred well before things like the government's ability to buy land, found a federal reserve, or raise a standing army had been firmly established.

And suing agents of the federal government who commit crimes/abuses under color of law or office is completely legal. It's called a Section 1983 suit, and it is designed to allow relief while keeping lawsuits from affecting completely unrelated sectors of government that have had nothing to do with the abuse.

But keep talking about subjects you have no understanding of.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Tourney3p0]

I would have to drive about 10 hours from my current house in order to be within the area code associated with my phone number. Should I be receiving emergency information for places that are 10 hours away from me? Ooh, or maybe we should be required to register our phone numbers with the government when we move to a new area. That sounds fantastic.

Person

[Anonymous Coward]

People who work for government would ultimately be the ones who use robocalling systems to contact large numbers of people.

This decision is asinine.

Told ya.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another reason not to put yourself on their Do Not Call List

What about

[Anonymous Coward]

Robotexts? I get them at all hours.

Exempt?

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on the number of robocalls I get daily, I'd have to say the entire world is exempt from these laws. None of these companies care what the federal government says about anything.

Exempt both ways?

[nitehawk214]

Does this mean we can do robocalls TO members of the government? They are exempt.

Of course not. Laws apply to plebs, not to the ruling elite.

Congress isn't people

[internerdj]

It was already common sense. Nice to see we have a court ruling as proof.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[Anonymous Coward]

That was in 1983 you dope.

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[Ol Olsoc]

And yes, that should be disallowed. But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.

More and more people are adopting the technique of not answering any number they don't recognize. So if I set the phone to only ring those in my address book - its all good until someone goes to the trouble of mining my address book and spoofing numbers of my list.

In other words, the telephone system is so broken it is of very little use any more. It's my last line of communication, and since "do not call" has never worked, I've implemented "Do Not Answer".

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[fustakrakich]

Because emergency information? Duh.

They'll have to send a teletype if I don't pick up, which is usually the case when I don't recognize the number. I'm not really asking for a prohibition of robocalls. Nobody respects them anyway. I'll just look for a caller ID machine that can whitelist my contacts.

please tell me of a way to inform a large amount of people of a danger in their area

We used to have to those those big air raid sirens. Are they pulling all those out now?

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the emergency information sent based on area code? For emergencies, a system could send an alert from every tower nation wide. Location data could be used to filter alerts (amber alert style) and remain silent unless the phone is in a set radius of the emergency. None of this requires using a phone in the conventional sense and would still be cheaper than robo-calling.

As stated above, this isn't about emergencies - that is the 'think of the children', 'terror' appeal to emotion.

I'm more concerned about other exemptions

[QuietLagoon]

Such as: political campaigns, charities, market research organizations,

.
While it is always an easy target to go after the Federal government, I have had zero, absolutely zero, robo-calls from the Federal government in the past 5 years. Zero.

Yet, I have had countless political calls (calls from/about Trump seem to be horribly numerous this past month). I have had numerous calls from charities and also market research organizations. But not one from the Federal government.

So I have to wonder why is this a /. article at all? Oh yeah, it's the political season.

Re:I'm more concerned about other exemptions

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:I'm more concerned about other exemptions .. Such as: political campaigns, charities, market research organizations,...
Yet, I have had countless political calls (calls from/about Trump seem to be horribly numerous this past month). I have had numerous calls from charities and also market research organizations.

All of these so-called 'exemptions' are actually illegal. The right to not have one's time wasted is a fundamental human right, and hence a recognized and protected right in any country with a legitimate government. It's also a consequence of the right to ethical practice of law. Hence, this right is doubly protected under the 9th Amendment of the US Bill of Rights, as a right 'retained by the people'.

Contract law, as a lessor form of law than the Bill of Rights, can not take away this right.

All door-to-door sales, all political calls, all charity and market research calls violate this right, and hence violate the highest law in the land. The same applies to junk mail. As a matter of fundamental rights, all advertising, whether it is political, business, religious, must be opt-in (and easy to opt-out of should one change one's mind). Items bundled with advertising must be readily available without it (charging twice as much might be reasonable).

Clearly it is inappropriate and illegal for the government to grant any special status to organizations that violate fundamental rights, including non-profit status and all other tax exemptions, or copyright, trademark, or patent. This applies to all organizations, including religions and political parties.

Congress, and the pet judges they select to create the illusion of checks and balance, simply choose not to acknowledge their legal obligations under the Bill of Rights. Since the legal profession has a massive ethical conflict of interest with respect to the 9th Amendment, they don't speak up about this or fight the multitude of 9th Amendment violations routinely engaged in by government (at all levels), or violations by many non-governmental entities.

The 9th Amendment right to ethical practice of law has the legal profession terrified, and as a result they prefer to pretend that the 9th Amendment doesn't even exist. Unfortunately, this lack of integrity has a whole host of negative consequences for society (and in the global economy, it isn't just citizens of the USA that are affected).

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

It is registered. E911. and always on IMEI.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[rickb928]

My TV doesn't do a good job of notifying me...

- when I'm at work. no live TV within view.

- when I'm driving to and from work. Radio? Not when I'm listening to streaming whatever.

Sadly, while my government will rely upon emergency service to justify the exemption, they will use it for every purpose. And if Hillary becomes President, be sure, certain beyond doubt, my government will use this to threaten and intimidate me, to justify its' expansion, to market itself to me, and to engage me solely to improve its surveillance of me and everyone connected to me.

It will not do any of this for my benefit, or to my advantage, because my government, when it exceed the minimum necessary functions a federal government should perform, does nothing that brings any benefit to me.

No. Beyond the minimum necessary functions, federal government is of no advantage or benefit to citizens. Everything beyond these minimum necessary functions should be performed by state or local government, or by the people.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[Zontar The Mindless]

The claim was that politicians and other important folks never take commercial flights, which I just demonstrated to be false, you dope.

Re:Govt may also torture and kill people

[rickb928]

"Also, government is allowed to lock up anybody who protests against trump deporting all muslims and non jewish circumcised men"

Please. Stop drooling.

Re:Does your congressperson take off his shoes?

[Zontar The Mindless]

And yes, I've a bit of a morbid fascination with air disasters, probably because flying gives me the willies and yet I do it anyhow.

People still answer unknown phone numbers?

[pla]

Do people actually still answer unknown phone numbers?

Hell, I have my phone set to not even ring for anyone not in my contacts list. Everyone else can leave a message, and I'll add them as a contact if I actually want to speak with them in the future.

fair is fair...

[Anonymous Coward]

of course, this is bi-directional, right? we're allowed to robocall all members of the government soliciting funds, letting them know their windows are infected, and blasting an airhorn and letting them know of fabulous credit card opportunities.... right?

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[micahraleigh]

Or more specifically:

The federal government is allowed to provide robocalls for incumbents who favor sending more tax revenues to the FCC.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Calydor]

In Europe (at least in Denmark) we still have sirens placed around the country that can be used to warn against impending air attack (the original use), chemical spill or other such nasty "Get to safety!" events.

Besides, they could just add a "State of Emergency" clause rather than allowing political solicitors to call you whenever.

The Problem with Sovereign Immunity

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the dictionary, the definition of sovereignty is, "supreme power or authority". Since in our country, the founders concluded the power to rule was derived from the power of the people, the people ultimately have the supreme power or authority.

So here is the way it is supposed to work in this country: The true sovereigns are the people. The government is the (in this case - disobedient) servant. Despite the niceness of their robes, the supreme court is not nobility, nor is the president royalty. The supreme court has gone so far from the truth, they literally have it backwards.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[desdinova 216]

I think it's not so much that they're being pulled, but more they're being disabled via lack of maintenance

IRS calling - pay attention !!

[ripvlan]

I guess I should start taking those "this is the IRS calling about case # 123556" threatening legal action. I'll pay my past due taxes immediately as requested via bitcoin and make sure "the situation totally unfolds" in a good way.

Entire Federal Government Exempt From all Laws

[moeinvt]

FTFY

Whether it is ATF agents smuggling weapons to Mexican drug cartels, OTS employees helping banks back-date deposits to cover up insolvency, James Clapper lying before Congress, Lois Lerner destroying evidence pursuant to a Congressional investigation, etc. government employees operate beyond the rule of law.

Blocking list

[Anonymous Coward]

We need a list of numbers of these people so we can block them en mass.

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[jratcliffe]

Congress DID make the law. The statute limits the prohibition to "persons." There's longstanding legal precedent that referring to a "person" does not include the Federal Government, unless specifically indicated. The statute makes no such indication. If Congress had wanted to include the Federal Government among the limited parties, it should have said so.

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[Obfuscant]

But outlawing robocallers would be tossing the baby with the bathwater.

The phrase "baby with the bathwater" assumes that there is something of precious value in with the valueless, even objectionable and polluted, surrounding media. That is an assumption that is not valid when it comes to "robocalling". Robocalling should be illegal, period, end of sentence. There is nothing of value that necessitates such abuse of the telephone system.

The closest to useful I've ever found these things are when my doctor's office uses one to call to remind me of an appointment. But since the robocall makes NO attempt to verify that it got the right number or that it is speaking to the patient involved. I consider that a clear violation of HIPAA laws. Suppose your husband answers the phone and hears a recording saying "this is a notice from XYZ clinic reminding Joan that she has an appointment with Doctor Schlub tomorrow at 2PM." "Dear, why are you seeing Doctor Schlub? I found him in the phone book, and he specializes in abortions ..."

But politicians already had exemptions for "political" calls, and charities, and other common abuses. And the FCC and FTC have done NOTHING to stop the ceaseless "consider this your last notice concerning the stimulus act" credit card fraud. And I'm getting veiled threats from an alarm system company that tells me how often homes like mine are broken into. Not in so many words, but clearly "wouldn't it be a shame for sumptin bad to happen to your beautiful house?"

One of the recent robocallers was from a petition drive seeking to make voting records private in the state of Oregon. That's so bad people cannot get access to your name or other information. The irony that they almost certainly used the voter records to create their caller list was not lost.

As for not answering "numbers I don't recognize", these robocallers can spoof any number they want to. I've gotten calls from "US Government", the state of Florida, and from my own phone number. I don't answer ANY calls anymore. If the message isn't compelling enough to get me to call back, too bad for you.

The stupid robocallers can detect answering machines, and they still leave a message saying "it's important we speak to you", leaving no callback number, and telling the answering machine to "press 1" to speak to a representative. No, there is nothing of value in robocalling, it's vile, disgusting and unnecessary.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Obfuscant]

My TV doesn't do a good job of notifying me... - when I'm at work. no live TV within view. - when I'm driving to and from work. Radio? Not when I'm listening to streaming whatever.

And my telephone does absolutely nothing to notify me in either situation. It can ring and ring and ring all it wants, there's nobody home in either case to hear it. Just my poor, overworked answering machine.

Our county crowed about how it has paid a company to do robocalling for emergency events. I called the company and told them to remove my number from that list, as the law allows me to do. They said they could not. The county decided to test the system. During the day. About 2PM. Do you know how many people aren't home at 2PM on a weekday, but have answering machines? The county found out -- a very large number of them called the emergency dispatch center when they got home to find out what the message meant. The center was overloaded that night. Instead of learning from that problem, they tested it again. At 2PM on a weekday. But they solved the problem by bringing in volunteers to deal with the flood of calls. "911 what's your emergency?" followed by a quick forward to a volunteer to deal with the complaints. This has now taught the public that getting a call like that is meaningless and it can be ignored. Good job, county.

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[sysrammer]

...I've implemented "Do Not Answer".

Yep. If I don't know it, it goes to vmail. If they don't leave a vmail, it wasn't important.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the emergency information sent based on area code?

Because "phone" doesn't mean "cell phone"

Re:Not an emergency and FCC shouldn't overrule Con

[Opportunist]

It has its place in emergency services. That it can be abused, and it is abused, is a given. Of course, it's far too tempting to use it to spam people. It's not any different than the ability to spew out thousands of emails per second. That can be used to give a lot of people important information in a flash, and it is abused to spam millions of people with crap.

What this needs is regulation. Limitation to specific messages only, with everything beyond warning of immediate threats requiring you to opt-in (NOT opt-out if you don't want it). And strict checks that ensure that it isn't abused to bother you with trivial rubbish.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[doccus]

Up here in the Great White North it appears to be legal to robocall folks that the voting location has changed when it hasn't, or that the day is wrong etc etc on behalf of the ruling gov't. At least they make a noise in the beginning (after the election!) and slowly the whole thing is forgotten. US could learn a thing or two about successful corruption from us here!
Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[fustakrakich]

Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..

He is his father's son.

Re:Well, of course it is! It's the damn government

[doccus]

Not sure how well the boy that's the current PM will work out..

He is his father's son.

Oh, That is so not good...