> I happen to work for a company that makes tax software. It's a ton of work.
Right, and why is this work being done 10 times over by 10 different companies, and then we are all being charged $30 to pay for it!!!!
Are you claiming that the government couldn't produce a Java or Web tax system for less than $200,000,000 per year!??!??
Here in Canada the provincial and federal governments co-operate in producing the forms/calculations, which means the provinces send their numbers/rates/paperwork/etc to the Feds who write up combined tax forms for each province. The feds collect *all* the tax, then transfer the provincial tax to the provinces.
However we've got the same idiotic situation in that 3-6 private companies are duplicating each other's effort in creating software, and then charging us $20-$40 a pop for the shit. All this when the federal government could simply do the job itself and save us $50,000,000 plus per year (minus their costs).
(Here in Canada the tax software you buy creates a government format regulated ".tax" file that you upload over ssl to the federal tax website. Even web-tax-software creates and.tax download for you that you then upload by yourself to the federal government.)
No, you *think* you're going to heaven. In actual reality, you *already* know what's awaiting you after you die. You've been "not alive" before.
Remember what the world was like before you were born?
What's that? You have no memories of the passage of time before you were an infant? You have no concept of existence before then? You have no memory, impression, or anything of the ENTIRE beginning of the universe?
Guess what. That's what the rest of eternity in this universe is going to feel like after you die. You're simply going to cease to exist.
The first one is a description, the second one is an explanation.
The scientific method and the things that result from it are not explanations. They are a system of self consistent descriptions.
Personally I don't use Occam's Razor when dealing with these religious nuts. I use Maxwell's demons. Anything your imaginary God can do, Maxwell's Demons can do just as well.
You fools, there are only 10 to the 260th power combinations if you presume that there are no mechanisms that *reduce* the problem space and make 10 to the 250 power possibilities disappear.
Look at it this way. See the ball I'm holding in my hand. It occupies X amount of physical space. There are 10 to the 1024th power other physical locations in the universe it could go to when I release it. But *mysteriously* it always ends up on the floor roughly below my hand.
. Incorrect. Your "broken window fallacy-fallacy" is a fallacy.
It is true that if money circles faster, it may mean that more useful stuff may be happening faster. So it *could* be an indicator of better times.
However our "wealth" or "standard of living" is not determined by how fast the money circles. It's determined by how much useful stuff we are producing.
You are confusing cause with effect.
Here, try this experiment. Get $1000 and a friend. Give your friend the $1000 and have him give you a rock. Then have him give you the $1000 and give him back the rock. Do this over and over and over again, really fast!
Wow, what a great booming economy you have there. You two are rich!!!
It's not just that - who the fuck gives a non-entity such as a corporation the right to contest the collective will of a community!??! What kind of idiotic law allows that??
It's idiotic. Sure I understand you Americans have a greater belief in the "greater efficiency" of private enterprises compared to governments for a lot of things, but the above just REEKS of violating the "buggy whip" principle - that just because a corporation has been making money at a business does not mean that they have an innate right to make a living at a given business.
If we want to put their asses out of business by competing directly against them as a community, there should be nothing to stop us - other than of course pre-existing contractual relationships....
The only reason rural areas have power and telephones is that we decided as a community to subsidize the deployment. (Well, where I'm from the government telco monopoly did it, where you're from the private telco monopoly you created did it. Guess which place has $40CDN/mo DSL in itty bitty towns hundreds of miles from big cities over 2 years ago?)
. Ooohhhhhshit, you have no idea how relevant this is.
I've been thinking for a year or so that I should add a laser pointer to my wilderness tripping emergency gear - along with the flares and mirror. You know, if you're out on the water in your sea kayak or trapped on a lake when on a canoe trip, you can easily use the laser pointer to signal an airliner overhead (plans on their way to Europe and stuff take "great circle" routes that pass overtop of all sorts of out of the way northern places).
But *now*, I might end up charged with who knows what!
Now have a friend hold the grape 50 feet away from you, and move it at 1 inch per second (everything is relative dude). Attach your laser pointer to a pair of binoculars and mark on the near lens the "hit point". Now try and track the "fast moving" plane.
Easy, isn't it? Now all you need is a 10 watt laser instead of a 10mw diode pointer.
[sarcasem] Of course, it's so easy to tell which lasers pointing into the cockpits and into motorists eyes and into pedestrians eyes are "pranks" and "jokes" verses "assaults" and "mallicious".[/sarcasem]
Personally I think people should be sentenced for their actions, not for their actions combined with their good luck in not killing someone. The guy who drives home drunk and the guy who drives home drunk and runs someone over - what did they do differently? Nothing. But if the first guy is caught he gets his license taken away, if the second guy gets caught he gets 2 years in jail.
When I was a physics grad student we had to take a number of half day hazards courses, one for each type of hazard we had in any of the labs were were going to be using for our research.
-cryogenic liquids -high voltage systems -compressed gas systems -acids and other chemicals (storage, handling, etc) -lasers
The one on lasers was interesting because they gave you a 20 page book which gave you all the math and exposure/limit charts and information you needed to calculate *for yourself* the dangers and limits of the laser you were using were.
*Then* after all the courses, they asked you to write up a multipage essay describing in detail all of the systems in all of the labs and their hazards in explicit detail as per the course material ("The Photoluminescence laboratory uses a 10mW 300nm CW laser... blah blah... capable of this type of eye damage if direct, capable of this type of eye damage when specularly reflected, requires these types of safety procedures, requires these types of interlocks, here is all the math I used to calculate all of the above, etc etc).
The feds should IMPOSE and require anyone who has access to a laser (other than puny pointers) or laser parts - the requirement to take such a course.
Just like the occupational health and safety group in my home province and university required of me....and nowdays the course should also have a page saying "no fucking around pointing it into other people's eyes even if the expected exposure at the expected distances will be below maximums - as the cost of police investigations mean your ass will be suitably fried just for causing the need for an investigation in the first place".
Maybe in IQ test too. Personally I don't mind at all if the guy burns. I viciously hate inconsiderate assholes, and he was definitely being an inconsiderate asshole. Serves him right.
Yes, and it increases their costs because instead of just suing the ISP once for the names, then "threatening" the people and getting all sorts of out-of-court settlements, they have to file N lawsuits. I wonder how easy/cheap/quick the latter is? I wonder if it's even doable when you're talking about thousands of suits.
This is fucking insane and idiotic. Seriously there is just no fucking point to that much repetition.
The IT company I work for (also filled with smart people though not to the extent of Google - I have a MSc in a hard core science) requires a copy of your marks with the initial application or they drop it into a wastebasket. There is one interview, maybe 0.5 to 2 hours, plus a *small* technical quiz - 4 questions tops, takes some people 20 minutes, others 60. In total my interview plus quiz took 1 to 1.5 hours.
Plus they call your references.
If they decide to hire you, they *always* call the VERY next day to tell you.
It works well and it rules! If someone tried to pull this kind of umpteenth interview bullshit on me, I'd cross them off my list as "grossly inefficient, incapalbe of making decisions, and/or screwed up internal organization", and tell them "no thanks, I've learned all I need to know about your company".
. I've got no problem with answering one of the greatest questions of all time - but it's a waste of power and effort to re-calculate the same thing 50 times over.
Why have 50,000,000 computers doing SETI when they only have the data necessary to keep 500,000 busy with useful analysis? Those other 49,500,000 should be doing something else useful. But clearly the 49,500,000 people too many are all too stupid to figure that out for themselves, and squander a huge resource.
. When the family grocery store burned down the only thing left was the safe, which is where the lottery tickets and other such important/like-money-but-not-money type things were kept overnight. Of course having been in the middle of an inferno for 6 straight hours left it such that it couldn't be opened using the combination or door.
My Uncle called the safe company, and they faxed him some instructions and told him to take it to the local autobody shop. At which point we learned why safes of that size are so damn heavy. Outer and inner boxes of thick steel, with the inner space filled with concrete!! (It's hard to get through and it insulates against fire..)
A couple hours of careful torching and hammering latter and only one corner of one document came out singed - everything else was fine.
Tsunami....... - 6 hours - 140,000 dead - 23,000 per hour Hitler+Germany - 6 years - 20,000,000 - 380 per hour Saddam........ - 30 years - 2,000,000 dead - 8 per hour Since Saddam.. - 1.5 years - 50,000 dead** - 4 per hour
This instance of Mother Nature wins by two orders of magnitude.
(**) Compromise with the famous 100,000 study. Clearly at least 20,000 deaths, probably more so I'll accept 50,000. I will not include 50,000 that died due to plain outright person to person non-insurrection related murders. And remember, of the 50,000, 20,000 were evil people who deserved to die. They were the 20,000 who helped murder the 2,000,000 over the prior 30 years.
The original poster clearly thought that his composites showed "what's under water", but in reality nothing is "under water", the buildings have simply been flattened and the color of the land changed by being covered in debris and little puddles of remaining water.
Yes, it was still interesting, having to flip between the two tabs to try and spot changes was not as easy as looking at the offset images. Presuming that one easily understood that they were offset.
> Colin Powell stated that he fully expects the > eventual US aid to the region to top $1 billion.
Yeah, but like on a date, first impressions are everything. All anyone in the world is going to remember is seeing a chart showing countries like Canada and Sweden donating as much as the US - even though in the end you'll end up donating 10 times that.
I saw a clip on TV last night that claimed that none of the promised US funds for Bam Iran has been delivered yet. You seem well informed. Any idea what they were talking about?
Yup, and the site changed 10 MONTHS ago to the "please pay $20 to cover bandwidth". So it's not something that the web hosting company (who as you note has hosted them since 2001) started doing out of malice.
This isn't quite the "software hijacking" ripoff that the original poster assumed.
Hmmm, danima is clearly a small time webhosting kinda 2 guy company. It's entirely possible that the kid in Finland signed a contract, didn't pay, and now they're trying to recoup their losses in an indirect way. I mean, they haven't tried at all to obscure the fact that the Finnish kid owns the software... and they're not charging directly for the software either...
Still not very kosher, but I betcha the story isn't as straight forward as we think...
What do you mean "ripped away from him"? I'd like a real background story please. Especially since the guy who supposedly "ripped it away from him" lives just a few KM north of me and has SO much personal inforamtion available over the internet:):)
No seriously people, don't use the following until you personally find out what the real story is. To be honest I'd like to see a full storyline by the guy in finland. If some brave sole (I'm not that brave I guess) would like to call up the Canadian faker and ask him his side of the story, his phone number is below.
If anyone wants to make a personal visit with a camera, I'd be willing to go along. (Safety in numbers, eh?)
For example the guestbook at "http://www.freebok.net/books/tonihele/view.html" IS in fact linked to by the guy in finland. The fact that the Canadian site links to it as well doesn't make it "part" of the fake site.
Finally the "Products" page on the canadian website does in fact list the software as "freeware". So maybe this is some kind of collaberative thing gone wrong, or two friends who are now on the outs.
Hmmm, I'm thinking that an e-mail by the Finnish guy to abuse@peer1.net might be of use, especially since they are an American company and might pay attention to a DMCA request despite the actual site being in Canada.:-)
Impossible period? Or impossible in less than N hours? Missiles take 20-40 or so minutes to cross the world, the Tsunami being talked about would take 5 hours, subtract overhead-want-to-be-sure-etc, we'd have 4 hours for an evacuation.
IIRC the core of Toronto grows by 300,000 to 500,000 people during the day due to people commuting in, and that's not with cars packed to capacity. I think that with 5 hours warning you could evacuate all 2 million people from a place like Toronto.
Now the Island of NY... no idea. I betcha someone smart in the City of NY govt has worked the numbers what with all the disaster planning and prearedness of late. One of their plans would be usable for something like this......probably the one where they get solid intel that there's a nuke somewhere in NewYork and it's set to go off at Xpm.
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> I happen to work for a company that makes tax software. It's a ton of work.
.tax download for you that you then upload by yourself to the federal government.)
Right, and why is this work being done 10 times over by 10 different companies, and then we are all being charged $30 to pay for it!!!!
Are you claiming that the government couldn't produce a Java or Web tax system for less than $200,000,000 per year!??!??
Here in Canada the provincial and federal governments co-operate in producing the forms/calculations, which means the provinces send their numbers/rates/paperwork/etc to the Feds who write up combined tax forms for each province. The feds collect *all* the tax, then transfer the provincial tax to the provinces.
However we've got the same idiotic situation in that 3-6 private companies are duplicating each other's effort in creating software, and then charging us $20-$40 a pop for the shit. All this when the federal government could simply do the job itself and save us $50,000,000 plus per year (minus their costs).
(Here in Canada the tax software you buy creates a government format regulated ".tax" file that you upload over ssl to the federal tax website. Even web-tax-software creates and
> I'm going to heaven, you're going to hell
No, you *think* you're going to heaven. In actual reality, you *already* know what's awaiting you after you die. You've been "not alive" before.
Remember what the world was like before you were born?
What's that? You have no memories of the passage of time before you were an infant? You have no concept of existence before then? You have no memory, impression, or anything of the ENTIRE beginning of the universe?
Guess what. That's what the rest of eternity in this universe is going to feel like after you die. You're simply going to cease to exist.
You aren't going *anywhere* bitch.
.
.
The first one is a description, the second one is an explanation.
The scientific method and the things that result from it are not explanations. They are a system of self consistent descriptions.
Personally I don't use Occam's Razor when dealing with these religious nuts. I use Maxwell's demons. Anything your imaginary God can do, Maxwell's Demons can do just as well.
.
.
Sigh....
You fools, there are only 10 to the 260th power combinations if you presume that there are no mechanisms that *reduce* the problem space and make 10 to the 250 power possibilities disappear.
Look at it this way. See the ball I'm holding in my hand. It occupies X amount of physical space. There are 10 to the 1024th power other physical locations in the universe it could go to when I release it. But *mysteriously* it always ends up on the floor roughly below my hand.
Wierd, eh?
.
.
Incorrect. Your "broken window fallacy-fallacy" is a fallacy.
It is true that if money circles faster, it may mean that more useful stuff may be happening faster. So it *could* be an indicator of better times.
However our "wealth" or "standard of living" is not determined by how fast the money circles. It's determined by how much useful stuff we are producing.
You are confusing cause with effect.
Here, try this experiment. Get $1000 and a friend. Give your friend the $1000 and have him give you a rock. Then have him give you the $1000 and give him back the rock. Do this over and over and over again, really fast!
Wow, what a great booming economy you have there. You two are rich!!!
See what I mean?
.
> Who decides what is private business?
It's not just that - who the fuck gives a non-entity such as a corporation the right to contest the collective will of a community!??! What kind of idiotic law allows that??
It's idiotic. Sure I understand you Americans have a greater belief in the "greater efficiency" of private enterprises compared to governments for a lot of things, but the above just REEKS of violating the "buggy whip" principle - that just because a corporation has been making money at a business does not mean that they have an innate right to make a living at a given business.
If we want to put their asses out of business by competing directly against them as a community, there should be nothing to stop us - other than of course pre-existing contractual relationships....
The only reason rural areas have power and telephones is that we decided as a community to subsidize the deployment. (Well, where I'm from the government telco monopoly did it, where you're from the private telco monopoly you created did it. Guess which place has $40CDN/mo DSL in itty bitty towns hundreds of miles from big cities over 2 years ago?)
.
:)
Ooohhhhhshit, you have no idea how relevant this is.
I've been thinking for a year or so that I should add a laser pointer to my wilderness tripping emergency gear - along with the flares and mirror. You know, if you're out on the water in your sea kayak or trapped on a lake when on a canoe trip, you can easily use the laser pointer to signal an airliner overhead (plans on their way to Europe and stuff take "great circle" routes that pass overtop of all sorts of out of the way northern places).
But *now*, I might end up charged with who knows what!
Interesting
.
Now have a friend hold the grape 50 feet away from you, and move it at 1 inch per second (everything is relative dude). Attach your laser pointer to a pair of binoculars and mark on the near lens the "hit point". Now try and track the "fast moving" plane.
Easy, isn't it? Now all you need is a 10 watt laser instead of a 10mw diode pointer.
[sarcasem] Of course, it's so easy to tell which lasers pointing into the cockpits and into motorists eyes and into pedestrians eyes are "pranks" and "jokes" verses "assaults" and "mallicious".[/sarcasem]
> the ... equivalent of chucking rocks over the freeway as a dumb prank
http://www.google.ca/search?q=rock+overpass+death
Fuck you and your dumb pranks.
Personally I think people should be sentenced for their actions, not for their actions combined with their good luck in not killing someone. The guy who drives home drunk and the guy who drives home drunk and runs someone over - what did they do differently? Nothing. But if the first guy is caught he gets his license taken away, if the second guy gets caught he gets 2 years in jail.
I think both of them should get 2 years in jail.
.
When I was a physics grad student we had to take a number of half day hazards courses, one for each type of hazard we had in any of the labs were were going to be using for our research.
... blah blah ... capable of this type of eye damage if direct, capable of this type of eye damage when specularly reflected, requires these types of safety procedures, requires these types of interlocks, here is all the math I used to calculate all of the above, etc etc).
...and nowdays the course should also have a page saying "no fucking around pointing it into other people's eyes even if the expected exposure at the expected distances will be below maximums - as the cost of police investigations mean your ass will be suitably fried just for causing the need for an investigation in the first place".
-cryogenic liquids
-high voltage systems
-compressed gas systems
-acids and other chemicals (storage, handling, etc)
-lasers
The one on lasers was interesting because they gave you a 20 page book which gave you all the math and exposure/limit charts and information you needed to calculate *for yourself* the dangers and limits of the laser you were using were.
*Then* after all the courses, they asked you to write up a multipage essay describing in detail all of the systems in all of the labs and their hazards in explicit detail as per the course material ("The Photoluminescence laboratory uses a 10mW 300nm CW laser
The feds should IMPOSE and require anyone who has access to a laser (other than puny pointers) or laser parts - the requirement to take such a course.
Just like the occupational health and safety group in my home province and university required of me.
Maybe in IQ test too. Personally I don't mind at all if the guy burns. I viciously hate inconsiderate assholes, and he was definitely being an inconsiderate asshole. Serves him right.
Yes, and it increases their costs because instead of just suing the ISP once for the names, then "threatening" the people and getting all sorts of out-of-court settlements, they have to file N lawsuits. I wonder how easy/cheap/quick the latter is? I wonder if it's even doable when you're talking about thousands of suits.
[apu]
I.... don't understand.
[/apu]
> Current job - 9 interviews
> Previous job - 12 interviews
This is fucking insane and idiotic. Seriously there is just no fucking point to that much repetition.
The IT company I work for (also filled with smart people though not to the extent of Google - I have a MSc in a hard core science) requires a copy of your marks with the initial application or they drop it into a wastebasket. There is one interview, maybe 0.5 to 2 hours, plus a *small* technical quiz - 4 questions tops, takes some people 20 minutes, others 60. In total my interview plus quiz took 1 to 1.5 hours.
Plus they call your references.
If they decide to hire you, they *always* call the VERY next day to tell you.
It works well and it rules! If someone tried to pull this kind of umpteenth interview bullshit on me, I'd cross them off my list as "grossly inefficient, incapalbe of making decisions, and/or screwed up internal organization", and tell them "no thanks, I've learned all I need to know about your company".
.
I've got no problem with answering one of the greatest questions of all time - but it's a waste of power and effort to re-calculate the same thing 50 times over.
Why have 50,000,000 computers doing SETI when they only have the data necessary to keep 500,000 busy with useful analysis? Those other 49,500,000 should be doing something else useful. But clearly the 49,500,000 people too many are all too stupid to figure that out for themselves, and squander a huge resource.
Clear?
.
When the family grocery store burned down the only thing left was the safe, which is where the lottery tickets and other such important/like-money-but-not-money type things were kept overnight. Of course having been in the middle of an inferno for 6 straight hours left it such that it couldn't be opened using the combination or door.
My Uncle called the safe company, and they faxed him some instructions and told him to take it to the local autobody shop. At which point we learned why safes of that size are so damn heavy. Outer and inner boxes of thick steel, with the inner space filled with concrete!! (It's hard to get through and it insulates against fire..)
A couple hours of careful torching and hammering latter and only one corner of one document came out singed - everything else was fine.
Hmmm, my bad, the Tsunami only took 1.5 hours to cross the Indian Ocean, so that makes the Tsunami around 75,000 killed per hour.
We're looking at Page 25, Figure 12
(starts at ZERO, full scale is 1%):.
.
Good point, let me summarize:
Tsunami....... - 6 hours - 140,000 dead - 23,000 per hour
Hitler+Germany - 6 years - 20,000,000 - 380 per hour
Saddam........ - 30 years - 2,000,000 dead - 8 per hour
Since Saddam.. - 1.5 years - 50,000 dead** - 4 per hour
This instance of Mother Nature wins by two orders of magnitude.
(**) Compromise with the famous 100,000 study. Clearly at least 20,000 deaths, probably more so I'll accept 50,000. I will not include 50,000 that died due to plain outright person to person non-insurrection related murders. And remember, of the 50,000, 20,000 were evil people who deserved to die. They were the 20,000 who helped murder the 2,000,000 over the prior 30 years.
He was being polite, pointing out facts.
You are being an asshole.
The original poster clearly thought that his composites showed "what's under water", but in reality nothing is "under water", the buildings have simply been flattened and the color of the land changed by being covered in debris and little puddles of remaining water.
Yes, it was still interesting, having to flip between the two tabs to try and spot changes was not as easy as looking at the offset images. Presuming that one easily understood that they were offset.
> Colin Powell stated that he fully expects the
> eventual US aid to the region to top $1 billion.
Yeah, but like on a date, first impressions are everything. All anyone in the world is going to remember is seeing a chart showing countries like Canada and Sweden donating as much as the US - even though in the end you'll end up donating 10 times that.
I saw a clip on TV last night that claimed that none of the promised US funds for Bam Iran has been delivered yet. You seem well informed. Any idea what they were talking about?
Yup, and the site changed 10 MONTHS ago to the "please pay $20 to cover bandwidth". So it's not something that the web hosting company (who as you note has hosted them since 2001) started doing out of malice.
This isn't quite the "software hijacking" ripoff that the original poster assumed.
Hmmm, danima is clearly a small time webhosting kinda 2 guy company. It's entirely possible that the kid in Finland signed a contract, didn't pay, and now they're trying to recoup their losses in an indirect way. I mean, they haven't tried at all to obscure the fact that the Finnish kid owns the software... and they're not charging directly for the software either...
Still not very kosher, but I betcha the story isn't as straight forward as we think...
Oh hell, even better, photographs: http://www.danima.com/thecompany/theteam.html
Of course, these guys might just be hosting the site for some other SOB.... you never know...
No seriously people, don't use the following until you personally find out what the real story is. To be honest I'd like to see a full storyline by the guy in finland. If some brave sole (I'm not that brave I guess) would like to call up the Canadian faker and ask him his side of the story, his phone number is below.
If anyone wants to make a personal visit with a camera, I'd be willing to go along. (Safety in numbers, eh?)
For example the guestbook at "http://www.freebok.net/books/tonihele/view.html" IS in fact linked to by the guy in finland. The fact that the Canadian site links to it as well doesn't make it "part" of the fake site.
Finally the "Products" page on the canadian website does in fact list the software as "freeware". So maybe this is some kind of collaberative thing gone wrong, or two friends who are now on the outs.
I'll ask in the official/Finland forums (http://toniarts.freeware4u.com/ - see my post here: http://toniarts.freeware4u.com/viewtopic.php?p=119 &sid=eca6c1a367204988ed6b700e3547555b#119)
Anyways, on to the good stuff.
Jeezus, that's just 5 KM north of me!!! http://ca.maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=5tcseup_0T pIxnhJgYdYfHQK6bgT&csz=M2M2T8&country=ca
Reverse phone number time:
http://findaperson.canada411.ca/search/Reverse_Pho ne?phone=416-223-6800
Heh heh, he's an independent insurance adjuster.
http://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie= utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Nick+Svab
And he has a toll free 888 number....
http://nick.danima.com/contact/
nick@svabinsurance.com, nick@danima.com
Hmmm, this looks like a nice place to publicly humiliate him - http://www.evanrotella.com/messagecentre/messagebo ard.html
Hmmm, I'm thinking that an e-mail by the Finnish guy to abuse@peer1.net might be of use, especially since they are an American company and might pay attention to a DMCA request despite the actual site being in Canada. :-)
Live by the internet. Die by the internet.
---- ---- ---- --- stop reading here please ---- ---- ---- ----
This is a bunch of junk text to increase the number of characters per line, slashdot's fucking lameness filter unfortunately. Hopefully this ma
Impossible period? Or impossible in less than N hours? Missiles take 20-40 or so minutes to cross the world, the Tsunami being talked about would take 5 hours, subtract overhead-want-to-be-sure-etc, we'd have 4 hours for an evacuation.
...probably the one where they get solid intel that there's a nuke somewhere in NewYork and it's set to go off at Xpm.
IIRC the core of Toronto grows by 300,000 to 500,000 people during the day due to people commuting in, and that's not with cars packed to capacity. I think that with 5 hours warning you could evacuate all 2 million people from a place like Toronto.
Now the Island of NY... no idea. I betcha someone smart in the City of NY govt has worked the numbers what with all the disaster planning and prearedness of late. One of their plans would be usable for something like this...