so can icons on the desktop, and to get to them is really easy... you just click the "show desktop" icon on the taskbar... not that i like that either... i prefer gnome2's panels that i can put anywhere around the screen and arrange my program icons on them... i can have some panels transparent, autohiding, etc. and x's multiple desktop thing has always been awesome for grouping running programs... then they made gnome3 which i don't much like but hey everyone seems to be changing things for the sake of change so why should the gnomes be left behind
android is outselling iphone by a mile, but apparently android users are likely more mature than the trendy teenybopper isheep that stay glued to their imaster every second of the day, so i guess from a web app developer point of view it does make more sense to develop for ios. i wouldn't call ios users "mindshare" though... maybe "mindless".
err..yeah, I do. It's what "Android doesn't run on".
i realize we're just talking across each other, but part of android does run inside dalvik (which is a virtual machine). in the context of this thread and TFA, the part of android in question is the part running inside the VM, which the post that i was originally replying to was conflating with the linux part (outside the VM).
A recent Samsung kernel exploit was found in any phones that used the Exynos 4412 and 4210 CPU's. It did make the news, but not exactly around the world
i guess if its not an inherent vulnerability that would make sense, and the vulnerability would have to be exploited for it to make front page news. vulnerabilities that can't really be exploited aren't as sensational. i'm not familiar with the samsung thing, but i'm guessing it wasn't a serious threat.
apps written using the NDK are coded in C/C++ with light Java wrappers that do nothing but call the code
native windows programs still run the same way when run on windows inside a virtualbox vm too, but they are still constrained by the limits of the virtual machine. dalvik is a process virtual machine, but i'm assuming even the c/c++ programs you mention are constrained by the limitations of the dalvik process. is it even possible to run a process outside dalvik from within dalvik? i wouldn't have thought so but i could be wrong. maybe if you had root access you could run malicious code on the next boot, or maybe create a cron job, but it would still require root filesystem permission. i'm still (even after reading a little bit about it) not really familiar with how you can gain root filesystem permissions from within dalvik given that i would assume dalvik would itself be running as a separate user with restricted filesystem permissions (kind of like apache). a wikipedia page on the topic talks about "exploiting security bug(s) in the firmware" but that would then be device-specific (like a bug in any device driver). if anyone has any experience in rooting an android device i would be interested to hear how it is done (practically speaking). there is a "su" app, but i imagine there is more to it than just installing the app. i'm not interested in rooting my android phone, but it might help my understanding of how android in general works (because abstract android framework diagrams don't really tell me a whole lot).
in all fairness to apple (i'm a linux fanboi, not an isheep)... users don't go looking for viruses to infect their system (windows and mac), but because mac has heritage in the multi-user unix platform it has some inherent security advantages over windows, which seems to get infected even without user intervention.
windows has a virus problem not only because it is so easily infected by its design, but because it is so easily infected makes it even more of a target
ballmer really hates the gpl because it prevents him from building the secure bits of linux into windows and solving all his virus woes... well maybe
how exactly does this distinction matter to the millions of Android users out there
1) i wasn't addressing the millions of Android users out there 2) it was part of my argument with the parent comment (which was trying to conflate the insecure bit of android with linux)
"My phone was so infected that it was unusable, all my accounts were hacked, and my porn stash was stolen, but at least it was just the vm and my linux kernel held up! (at least I think.. i can't really tell...)"
that same kernel (well, mostly same) is shared by more than just android...if dalvik is corrupted to the point of destruction but the kernel holds up, that will probably matter more to the world that all the embedded and datacenter applications are still secure
Android does not run on a virtual machine, it uses the Dalvik VM to execute apps written in Java
err... you do realize what the "VM" bit stands for right?
i know "android" is the collective term for the kernel, vm and wm, libs, etc, but the insecure bit that TFA is probably talking about (who actually reads TFA anyway) is the app layer, not the kernel... if a virus were able to breach the kernel it would make front page news around the world because there are huge interests at stake (including corporate and government).
It's also perfectly capable of exerting native apps that bypass the VM
i would be interested to know what native apps can bypass the vm without first gaining root access at least (with root of course you can do anything and so could a virus).
yet quite often we hear about a bug in the Linux kernel, or Bind, or some other major component that has been undiscovered for years and years
i seem to recall that as an excuse around these parts for a decade (continuing today) regarding linux... and yet those bugs aren't exploited, even when the potential target is driving much of the consumer embedded world, servers (including probably majority of web servers and many large corporate intranets), and now smartphones.
Android (Linux based) is the most easily hackable mobile phone OS out there!
calm down a bit there sunshine... android is really a userland running on a virtual machine (dalvik). if you find an android vulnerability that affects the underlying linux kernel, then you'll have a major story. yes android is probably pathetically insecure (it would be nice if it were as secure as linux), but the linux kernel underneath dalvik is as tight and tested as the numerous datacenters around the world require it to be.
some slashdotters like to pick on how linux fans claim android = linux when it suits and not when it doesn't. android is an application layer running inside a virtual machine (so it is separated from the linux kernel), but there is still linux underneath (so every android deployment is also a linux deployment). linux and android are usually lumped together when arguing about market share, and separated when arguing about security, but there's nothing contradictory if you take the context of the argument into account.
i only buy toshiba laptops with win7 (i won't be buying a laptop with win8). i've never had a problem getting linux on. maybe you're holding them wrong too.
if you're stupid enough to buy a laptop with win8 with the intention of putting linux on, you're also holding it wrong.
when all laptops have uefi and lock linux out, then maybe i'll bitch. at the moment there is no sign of that though, and given microsoft's foray into surface, i imagine their traditional oems may be looking to diversify to reduce their risk exposure. a few oems are becoming more linux friendly (even if they don't supply preinstalled linux)... http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/
maybe i didn't follow the logic of the post i was replying to, but i was under the impression you think that technology is what gives an army the edge, but from all the evidence i've seen even with a defense budget that exceeds the sum of the spending of the next eight or so highest military spenders, a single combatant with nothing more than an RPG can take out a multi-million dollar attack helicopter... my point is (however poorly made) that the US military with almost unlimited finances, a huge arsenal of advanced weapons (stealth, drones, guided missiles, long range sniper tech, nightvision), satellite technology, espionage networks, international political clout, etc still manages to invade a country and totally fuck everything up from then on... how many american lives have been lost in afghanistan and iraq, not to mention vietnam? and for what gain? when the american military kills one civilian, it probably gains three enemy combatants, and it kills thousands of civilians each year. war isn't rocket science, but it seems like the US military is being managed by rocket scientists... with a fetish for more rockets. the US will NEVER win the "war on terror", and not only because "terror" isn't even defined to a point where you can identify a terrorist (they just lock up whoever they don't like without question), and because anyone that isn't retarded can see the "shock and awe" strategy they use to justify the costs of their huge expensive arsenal is as retarded as trying to hammer a nail with a pile driver.
Slashdot Mirror
so can icons on the desktop, and to get to them is really easy... you just click the "show desktop" icon on the taskbar... not that i like that either... i prefer gnome2's panels that i can put anywhere around the screen and arrange my program icons on them... i can have some panels transparent, autohiding, etc. and x's multiple desktop thing has always been awesome for grouping running programs... then they made gnome3 which i don't much like but hey everyone seems to be changing things for the sake of change so why should the gnomes be left behind
It is still Windows afterall
yeah...and it still sucks :-)
windows in windows? that's umpossible
typing in windows is so 90's
customers are not required to remain customers
that's exactly what microsoft wants you to think
if you want to use windows server for powershell, you may as well just upgrade to linux and ssh
android is outselling iphone by a mile, but apparently android users are likely more mature than the trendy teenybopper isheep that stay glued to their imaster every second of the day, so i guess from a web app developer point of view it does make more sense to develop for ios. i wouldn't call ios users "mindshare" though... maybe "mindless".
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/04/ios--android-usage/
even their logo kinda looks like four blue screens of death
what about a linux failures list?
Then of course it would have failed in it's number one goal, force the idiot sheep to become accustomed to the windows phones interface
nope... number one goal is profit... nothing more... nothing less... how they get it is of secondary importance
windows NT was the backbone of business for a long time and formed the basis of XP etc
i dunno whether i would call it a failure
how many pcs are out there compared to other smart devices?
i think the whole point is that the pc isn't all that it used to be
they'll bring the start menu back but they'll gradually make it suck to the point where users get more from the metro thing
Windows 8NT4Me
err..yeah, I do. It's what "Android doesn't run on".
i realize we're just talking across each other, but part of android does run inside dalvik (which is a virtual machine). in the context of this thread and TFA, the part of android in question is the part running inside the VM, which the post that i was originally replying to was conflating with the linux part (outside the VM).
A recent Samsung kernel exploit was found in any phones that used the Exynos 4412 and 4210 CPU's. It did make the news, but not exactly around the world
i guess if its not an inherent vulnerability that would make sense, and the vulnerability would have to be exploited for it to make front page news. vulnerabilities that can't really be exploited aren't as sensational. i'm not familiar with the samsung thing, but i'm guessing it wasn't a serious threat.
apps written using the NDK are coded in C/C++ with light Java wrappers that do nothing but call the code
native windows programs still run the same way when run on windows inside a virtualbox vm too, but they are still constrained by the limits of the virtual machine. dalvik is a process virtual machine, but i'm assuming even the c/c++ programs you mention are constrained by the limitations of the dalvik process. is it even possible to run a process outside dalvik from within dalvik? i wouldn't have thought so but i could be wrong. maybe if you had root access you could run malicious code on the next boot, or maybe create a cron job, but it would still require root filesystem permission. i'm still (even after reading a little bit about it) not really familiar with how you can gain root filesystem permissions from within dalvik given that i would assume dalvik would itself be running as a separate user with restricted filesystem permissions (kind of like apache). a wikipedia page on the topic talks about "exploiting security bug(s) in the firmware" but that would then be device-specific (like a bug in any device driver). if anyone has any experience in rooting an android device i would be interested to hear how it is done (practically speaking). there is a "su" app, but i imagine there is more to it than just installing the app. i'm not interested in rooting my android phone, but it might help my understanding of how android in general works (because abstract android framework diagrams don't really tell me a whole lot).
in all fairness to apple (i'm a linux fanboi, not an isheep)... users don't go looking for viruses to infect their system (windows and mac), but because mac has heritage in the multi-user unix platform it has some inherent security advantages over windows, which seems to get infected even without user intervention.
windows has a virus problem not only because it is so easily infected by its design, but because it is so easily infected makes it even more of a target
ballmer really hates the gpl because it prevents him from building the secure bits of linux into windows and solving all his virus woes... well maybe
how exactly does this distinction matter to the millions of Android users out there
1) i wasn't addressing the millions of Android users out there
2) it was part of my argument with the parent comment (which was trying to conflate the insecure bit of android with linux)
"My phone was so infected that it was unusable, all my accounts were hacked, and my porn stash was stolen, but at least it was just the vm and my linux kernel held up! (at least I think.. i can't really tell...)"
that same kernel (well, mostly same) is shared by more than just android...if dalvik is corrupted to the point of destruction but the kernel holds up, that will probably matter more to the world that all the embedded and datacenter applications are still secure
Android does not run on a virtual machine, it uses the Dalvik VM to execute apps written in Java
err... you do realize what the "VM" bit stands for right?
i know "android" is the collective term for the kernel, vm and wm, libs, etc, but the insecure bit that TFA is probably talking about (who actually reads TFA anyway) is the app layer, not the kernel... if a virus were able to breach the kernel it would make front page news around the world because there are huge interests at stake (including corporate and government).
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalvik_(software) ... "Dalvik is the process virtual machine (VM) in Google's Android operating system".
It's also perfectly capable of exerting native apps that bypass the VM
i would be interested to know what native apps can bypass the vm without first gaining root access at least (with root of course you can do anything and so could a virus).
what about the worst virus of all: ANDROID?!?!? that entire OS is a virus masquerading as a useful product. it needs to obliterated
regards,
steve ballmer
38:14 And God created the first ever Hosts file...
205.186.175.153 goatse.cx
yet quite often we hear about a bug in the Linux kernel, or Bind, or some other major component that has been undiscovered for years and years
i seem to recall that as an excuse around these parts for a decade (continuing today) regarding linux... and yet those bugs aren't exploited, even when the potential target is driving much of the consumer embedded world, servers (including probably majority of web servers and many large corporate intranets), and now smartphones.
Android (Linux based) is the most easily hackable mobile phone OS out there!
calm down a bit there sunshine... android is really a userland running on a virtual machine (dalvik). if you find an android vulnerability that affects the underlying linux kernel, then you'll have a major story. yes android is probably pathetically insecure (it would be nice if it were as secure as linux), but the linux kernel underneath dalvik is as tight and tested as the numerous datacenters around the world require it to be.
some slashdotters like to pick on how linux fans claim android = linux when it suits and not when it doesn't. android is an application layer running inside a virtual machine (so it is separated from the linux kernel), but there is still linux underneath (so every android deployment is also a linux deployment). linux and android are usually lumped together when arguing about market share, and separated when arguing about security, but there's nothing contradictory if you take the context of the argument into account.
i only buy toshiba laptops with win7 (i won't be buying a laptop with win8). i've never had a problem getting linux on. maybe you're holding them wrong too.
if you're stupid enough to buy a laptop with win8 with the intention of putting linux on, you're also holding it wrong.
when all laptops have uefi and lock linux out, then maybe i'll bitch. at the moment there is no sign of that though, and given microsoft's foray into surface, i imagine their traditional oems may be looking to diversify to reduce their risk exposure. a few oems are becoming more linux friendly (even if they don't supply preinstalled linux)... http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/
maybe i didn't follow the logic of the post i was replying to, but i was under the impression you think that technology is what gives an army the edge, but from all the evidence i've seen even with a defense budget that exceeds the sum of the spending of the next eight or so highest military spenders, a single combatant with nothing more than an RPG can take out a multi-million dollar attack helicopter... my point is (however poorly made) that the US military with almost unlimited finances, a huge arsenal of advanced weapons (stealth, drones, guided missiles, long range sniper tech, nightvision), satellite technology, espionage networks, international political clout, etc still manages to invade a country and totally fuck everything up from then on... how many american lives have been lost in afghanistan and iraq, not to mention vietnam? and for what gain? when the american military kills one civilian, it probably gains three enemy combatants, and it kills thousands of civilians each year. war isn't rocket science, but it seems like the US military is being managed by rocket scientists... with a fetish for more rockets. the US will NEVER win the "war on terror", and not only because "terror" isn't even defined to a point where you can identify a terrorist (they just lock up whoever they don't like without question), and because anyone that isn't retarded can see the "shock and awe" strategy they use to justify the costs of their huge expensive arsenal is as retarded as trying to hammer a nail with a pile driver.
gimp does have a purpose... it serves as a handy code base for adobe programmers to plagiarize from
gimp = by experts, for experts
photoshop = by dummies, for dummies
sid is a very naughty boy