On the Heels of Wheezy, Aptosid Releases 2013-01

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On the Heels of Wheezy, Aptosid Releases 2013-01

Posted by timothy on Sunday May 5, 2013 @01:56PM from the different-drummer-to-similar-tune dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Right on the heels of Debian's 7.0 ('Wheezy') release, the Aptosid team is proud to announce the immediate availability of the 2013-01 release. Aptosid is a rolling release built on top of Debian's most modern branch Sid, providing the most up-to-date kernel available with patches and stabilization not yet seen in mainline, along with many patched Debian packages, all while maintaining 100% compatibility with upstream Debian (unlike other distros based on Debian). If you think Debian Stable is too old to be useful, give Atposid a spin!"

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A great distro. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 14:23 · Score: 1

Probably be switching back to this distro after three years on Arch.
1. Re:A great distro. by jampola · 2013-05-05 17:16 · Score: 1
  
  Recently switched back to Debian from Arch. Best thing I did. I have nothing against the Arch guys or the distro, but I seem to get more work done on Debian!
  
  XFCE 4.10 and I'm running sid with the siduction repo's and I couldn't be happier. It's a shame they couldn't get the XFCE 4.6 -> 4.10 upgrade path working by freeze.
2. Re:A great distro. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-06 01:15 · Score: 0
  
  Probably be switching back to this distro after three years on Arch.
  When you want to Learn, use Arch or Gentoo. When you want to work, use Debian. When you want to play, use Fedora.
3. Re:A great distro. by fast+turtle · 2013-05-06 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  I run Gentoo you clod and get plenty of work done. It's all in how you configure your system. What I dislike about debian is they make it so damn difficult to get exactly the options I want instead of the everything and the kitchen sink approach they have. As an example, I can run older software that's extremely stable simply because most times, a vulnerability is found in a feature/library my system isn't built against unlike debian. From what I've seen, if there are 30 different libs to do the same thing, they include all of them as deps instead of choosing what works the best and stick with it for both security and stability reasons, which is exactly why I restrict myself to a very limited number of deps.
  The main thing is, I can get my work done w/o the system getting in my way nor do I have to update things but once a year at the least. Normally, I get at least 18 to 24 months between upgrades, when I do a completely clean installation anyhow - clears all of the cruft and accumulated dust bunnies (yes they need to be evicted on an annual basis) and that's why I do a clean install then.
  
  --
  Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by jazzmans · 2013-05-05 14:57 · Score: 1

I used Kanotix, Sidux, and Aptosid (related debian-derived distros)for a long, long time.
It's nice to see a new Aptosid version, I may have to give this a spin, after updating all my server machines to Wheezy.
Keep on Truckin' guys!
jaz

--
Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans. No-one sees motorcycles
1. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by pavon · 2013-05-05 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  I used Kanotix, Sidux, and Aptosid (related debian-derived distros)for a long, long time.
  Maybe you can answer this since the website doesn't. What is the difference between aptosid and just running sid?
2. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  Just running sid is asking for your desktop to implode when a new thing drops and it breaks everything else (trust me, I used sid for my desktop right up until the x11/xorg transition). Sid is where all the package rearchitecture begins, sometimes those new packages are even available on the archives before the conflicts begin, the rest of the time, you apt-get at the wrong time and everything uninstalls. FTBFS is a showstopper on stable and testing, on sid it's an excuse to force all the other package maintainers to upgrade their libraries and repackage.
  Having a layer (however thin) between raw sid and the people using it is great for smoothing out the bumps.
3. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:49 · Score: 0
  
  It has a script to update (Deliberately made to be as unreadable as possible.)
  A more desktop oriented kernel. (That was pretty good.)
  I think the grml kernel is better though.
  They don't use aptitude though or support it.
4. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:52 · Score: 0
  
  If you use aptitude you don't have any issues nearly all the time it makes more sensible choices than apt-get. (You don't get any of the totally stupid ideas).
5. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by bfree · 2013-05-05 16:11 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It has a script to update (Deliberately made to be as unreadable as possible.)
  This is not true of aptosid. The update procedure is simply to stop X, run "apt-get dist-upgrade" and make sure what it wants to do seems sane before accepting it.
  
  They don't use aptitude though or support it.
  This is absolutely true and for similar reasons to why Debian has recommended using apt-get to perform the dist-upgrades between their stable releases. With sid you want to dist-upgrade and the predictable and consistent nature of apt-get is far better suited for this then aptitude which can often be too smart for it's own good.
  
  --
  Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
6. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by bfree · 2013-05-05 16:14 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The summary includes one of the major differences, the kernel. Wheezy (and sid as of now) has 3.2, this aptosid release has 3.9. The aptosid kernel stays very close to vanilla mainline with the latest stable/important/security patches and suitably tuned for most desktop users.
  Another major difference is the installer (and it's live system) which brings a coherent set of packages to start with and some initial configuration which helps make it more suitable for use as a sid system such as disabling the installation of recommended packages by default. The initial aptosid system is a clean sid system, such as you can get from debootstrapping, without the pain of bootstrapping or the baggage accumulated by starting from a stable system and upgrading it to sid.
  As a result of not being tied to the Debian kernel and debian-installer it can also often adopt features ahead of Debian itself without breaking compatibility with sid. Examples have included ath5k support for a fully Free wifi experience, insserv support for parrallel starting of initscripts and support for installing on EFI systems. Of course it doesn't support everything d-i does nor all the architectures of the Debian kernel.
  The aptosid manual is great and covers an awful lot of material from setting things up to maintaining your system, guiding you to keep a supportable system in the unstable environment. It's available in 14 languages at the moment.
  The artwork of course is also aptosid's own, changing with each release. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and of course you can pick other art from the Debian packages or your own images for wallpapers ... though I never bother.
  Finally there is a community which wants to support those running sid and a "fix.main" section of the aptosid repo which often includes some "hot-fixes" for issues which have cropped up in sid, helping to protect it's users, sometimes briefly just waiting for the next debian mirror push and sometimes for issues which end up staying in sid for a long time.
  
  --
  Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
7. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by GigaplexNZ · 2013-05-05 17:16 · Score: 1
  
  It's nice to see a new Aptosid version
  Why? It's rolling release.
8. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Artifakt · 2013-05-05 18:08 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  As the uncle of an autistic adult who has been called a gimp by various ignorant and vicious people, and seen his face when it happened, I literally think of the people who insist in clinging to that name as the equivalent of the KKK or the Manson family. I will not use the GIMP, and remove it from all installs I do. Large distros are turning off tens of thousands of potential users by insisting it's just a play on words, It's hateful, bigoted, and harms all the other developers of bundled Linux software that won't stoop to that level by association. However, out here in meatspace, I'm certainly not afraid of the software, I simply find it (and its creators) offensive.
  
  --
  Who is John Cabal?
9. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 18:41 · Score: 0
  
  you forgot the BEST thing ----
  NO GNOME 3
  NO UNITY
  out-of-box desktops include KDE ('lite' or 'full') and XFCE.
10. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by drinkypoo · 2013-05-05 19:05 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  As the uncle of an autistic adult who has been called a gimp by various ignorant and vicious people, and seen his face when it happened, I literally think of the people who insist in clinging to that name as the equivalent of the KKK or the Manson family. I will not use the GIMP, and remove it from all installs I do.
  Really? KKK or the Manson family? I agree with most of what you said in your comment, but I feel dirty for agreeing with you after reading that idiocy. Your comment is incredibly insulting in its insensitivity to people who have been killed for being different, rather than merely insulted — and more meaningfully, to their survivors.
  Anyone who defends the name of The GIMP is being lame. The GIMP is the poster child for why developers shouldn't name their own projects. But a cross-burning (or a lynching) it ain't.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
11. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 20:42 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, but you're an idiot.
12. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Runaway1956 · 2013-05-05 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  How about Mate? I've not even looked at it yet, but if Mate is available, my testing will be considerably more enjoyable.
  
  --
  "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
13. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 22:20 · Score: 0
  
  Anyone who defends the name of The GIMP is being lame. The GIMP is the poster child for why developers shouldn't name their own projects. But a cross-burning (or a lynching) it ain't.
  I don't think the name is one bit of a problem on the other side of the pond; the only place I consistently hear complaints about its name seems to be Slashdot.
  I do have a couple of problems with other open source projects' names, though. LibreOffice sounds very awkward, and fercrissakes don't name a music player Audacious when a popular audio editor called Audacity already exists. So I guess I am lame?
14. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by crutchy · 2013-05-05 23:06 · Score: 1
  
  sid is a very naughty boy
15. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by crutchy · 2013-05-05 23:11 · Score: 1
  
  gimp does have a purpose... it serves as a handy code base for adobe programmers to plagiarize from
  gimp = by experts, for experts
  photoshop = by dummies, for dummies
16. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by AliasMarlowe · 2013-05-05 23:26 · Score: 2
  
  I don't think the name is one bit of a problem on the other side of the pond; the only place I consistently hear complaints about its name seems to be Slashdot.
  It's more of a storm in a teacup, which might give some people a stick to beat the GIMP with. As you say, it appears to be a Slashdot-only sort of thing.
  The first page or two of Google results for gimp all point to sites for the Gnu Image Manipulation Program. Also, the entry in wiktionary for gimp suggests GIMP as an alternative, then lists some arcane meanings for the term, before noting its use in US slang from 1925, and then listing more arcane definitions. Despite living more than a decade in the US and Canada as an adult, I only heard people there use the term to refer to the image editor. Expletives and pejorative expressions were common enough, in many contexts, but never did I hear "gimp" used in that way.
  
  --
  Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
17. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by ThePhilips · 2013-05-05 23:27 · Score: 2
  
  Maybe you can answer this since the website doesn't. What is the difference between aptosid and just running sid?
  Many things were listed before, but the biggest ones were not:
  1. You can't install Debian Sid, since there is no installer for it. You need to install normall Debian, and then add the sid repos and dist-upgrade. Can be painful and very error-prone (see #2).
  2. As much as people like to say that Aptosid (formerly Sidux) is pure Sid, it is not. The Aptosid maintainers/Debian developers try to hold off known to be broken version of packages.
  
  --
  All hope abandon ye who enter here.
18. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 23:31 · Score: 0
  
  I literally think of the people who insist in clinging to that name as the equivalent of the KKK or the Manson family.
  ???
  Are you serious? It's a word with multiple meanings, get over it. If you think the name 'gimp' is equivalent to lynching somebody or stabbing somebody in the stomach during a ritual killing, then you need to get on meds, quickly. Seriously, you're an idiot.
19. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by JackieBrown · 2013-05-06 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming by "normal" debian, you mean stable, that is incorrect. You can install testing and update to sid. That is a much easier path than stable to sid.
20. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-06 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Posting A/C to avoid undoing my mods: I've been using Aptosid for just over two years without any problems. I have three minor complaints:
  
  1. The recommended software update process for bug fixes and security updates is to kill X, install the update, and start X. Their directions for this are excellent and very easy to follow, but it's still a hassle to lose access to your web browser (aside from Lynx) while your updates are installed.
  
  2. This is clearly a team of brilliant software engineers but not top-tier designers. Their choice of themes and fonts is, with all due respect, not as pretty as the big name distributions like Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint, OpenSUSE, etc... it's not a serious drawback, but I've had my wife and kids remark on how pretty my display looks when I'm using other distributions. They view Aptosid with distaste.
  
  3. The default web browser is Iceweasel 10.0.12ESR. That tracks Debian, but it's fairly out of date. I think it would be nicer if a newer version of Iceweasel or default Firefox was available by default. It's only a minor annoyance, but it seems odd to me that they didn't make a more up-to-date browser the default.
21. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-06 02:58 · Score: 0
  
  Anyone who defends the name of The GIMP is being lame.
  Using "lame" in that manner is not much different.
22. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by uM0p+ap!sdn+ · 2013-05-06 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  aptitude and sid, ouch, your asking for a sysyem meltdown
  Kanatix, sidux, aptosid, siduction, all based on sid, all of them don't recommend aptitude, and for good reason
23. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by uM0p+ap!sdn+ · 2013-05-06 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  Nice to see you here bfree . :)
24. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Aguazul2 · 2013-05-06 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  So, I should stop using "git" because "git" is an insult in my culture (UK)? No, I keep on using it because it does a fantastic job. What about firefox -- how do you think foxes feel about that? Yes, you have the right to be offended by a random acronym. Please carry on being offended -- thankfully no-one loses except you.
25. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by drinkypoo · 2013-05-06 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  Using "lame" in that manner is not much different.
  Why did it take an AC to see what I did there? This place has gone to the cowards.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
26. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Ginger+Unicorn · 2013-05-06 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Seems to me like the people you should be annoyed with are the people that were bullying your nephew. The word gimp has many meanings.
  
  --
  (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
27. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by UltraZelda64 · 2013-05-06 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  You get a fully usable live CD/DVD that can be booted into a complete desktop for testing, emergency/recovery or standard desktop use. And if you like it and want to use it as your main OS, you can install it. It's basically the KNOPPIX of Sid, but featuring a live system installer. And it's primarily focused on KDE (with Xfce and LXDE editions available), which is good for people who can't stand GNOME 3.
28. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by readingaccount · 2013-05-06 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think the name is one bit of a problem on the other side of the pond; the only place I consistently hear complaints about its name seems to be Slashdot.
  Probably because very few people actually use GIMP (everyone else just pirates Photoshop if they can't or won't pay for it), so the sample size of users and people who've even heard of the GIMP is vanishingly small compared to Photoshop. Slashdotters tend to be fans of open source stuff though so it makes sense they'd at least be aware of the GIMP more than anyone else.
29. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-06 16:12 · Score: 0
  
  G I M P is an acronym and not a word.
  Google it and get back to us.
30. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by drinkypoo · 2013-05-06 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  Probably because very few people actually use GIMP (everyone else just pirates Photoshop if they can't or won't pay for it), so the sample size of users and people who've even heard of the GIMP is vanishingly small compared to Photoshop.
  
  I downloaded that Adobe CS2 that Adobe accidentally gave away and I still use GIMP and didn't even bother to jump through the hoops to install Photoshop, which is nontrivial. I'm afraid I'll require a citation before I'll believe that more people are using pirated photoshop on linux than are using The GIMP, which is really fairly usable these days.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
31. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by martinux · 2013-05-07 00:19 · Score: 1
  
  Tried suggesting it in a UK, NHS hospital to a manager (M) as a . The hospital runs a *gait analysis* lab, various imaging labs and has a school for long-term stay kids.
  As soon as they heard the name it was off the table. The fear of someone seeing the name and making a compaint was enough.
  It doesn't matter that GIMP could have saved the taxpayer-funded NHS money and it doesn't matter how competent a tool it is. It's associated with a word that still has widely recognised derogatory connotations. I've shown it to other people outside of the hospital and I still get uncomfortable looks when I mention the name.
  My only hope at this point is that some group will do a rebrand.
32. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by martinux · 2013-05-07 00:26 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry for the lack of edit, I can't seem to find the option to modify my post...
  Tried suggesting it in a UK, NHS hospital to a manager as an alternative to the widely used Photoshop.
33. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by readingaccount · 2013-05-07 01:33 · Score: 1
  
  Well if I go by what you said, no-one is using pirated Photoshop on Linux anyway because it doesn't exist. :) Unless you mean Wine, which I don't.
  Put it this way - GIMP has no mindshare. When people talk about Photoshopping they have one product in mind. When people discuss artistic design with computers, they're not talking about GIMP. When people present stuff they've made, I've yet to see anyone of any measurable level of quality use anything other than Photoshop. It's the industry standard for a reason.
  I'm not saying GIMP is useless. I'm saying that given how much piracy is accepted in society (which is obvious seeing how much TV shows are torrented at the very least), it's hard for a lot of people to justify learning the GIMP as opposed to Photoshop when the end cost is going to effectively be the same. Plus with Photoshop you have a potentially transferrable skill set for those who are interested in a career in digital design. I have yet to see ANYONE use GIMP in a professional setting. You won't see it used in any photo houses that's for sure.
  By extenion, Linux doesn't stand a chance in these environments. So much for Windows dying.
34. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-09 20:41 · Score: 0
  
  Would you mind pointing to the LXDE edition?
35. Re:Neat, a new updated Aptosid! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-13 04:01 · Score: 0
  
  install once
  keep your system uptodate ( use apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade)
  on new release read and apply "hints for upgraders"
  let it roll
Are you serious? by philip.paradis · 2013-05-05 15:00 · Score: 2, Interesting

If you think Debian Stable is too old to be useful, give Atposid a spin!
Debian 7 is less than 24 hours into being the stable version, and went into release freeze status less than a year ago (2012-06-30). I'm endlessly amused by what people consider "old" these days.

--
Write failed: Broken pipe
1. Re:Are you serious? by ButchDeLoria · 2013-05-05 15:04 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  As the poet of a generation put it: "My new computer's got the clocks, it rocks| But it was obsolete before I opened the box| You say you've had your desktop for over a week?| Throw that junk away, man, it's an antique| Your laptop is a month old? Well that's great| If you could use a nice, heavy paperweight"
2. Re:Are you serious? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:34 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe a poet of a generation?
  Maybe a voice of a generation?
3. Re:Are you serious? by Billly+Gates · 2013-05-05 15:45 · Score: 1
  
  If you think Debian Stable is too old to be useful, give Atposid a spin!
  Debian 7 is less than 24 hours into being the stable version, and went into release freeze status less than a year ago (2012-06-30). I'm endlessly amused by what people consider "old" these days.
  It is possible they had a pre-release leading up to this with patches based on the RC candidates of Debian 7. I do not know as I do not run that distro.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
4. Re:Are you serious? by kernelpanicked · 2013-05-05 17:04 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah I mean who wants a desktop that's still being maintained (I'm an XFCE user), or a web browser and email client that aren't EOL before the OS is even released? It's crazy I tell ya.
  
  --
  Ubuntu: If at first you don't succeed, blindly slap a sudo in front of it
5. Re:Are you serious? by philip.paradis · 2013-05-05 17:47 · Score: 1
  
  You can run an official Google Chrome build on Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/openSUSE. You can also run XFCE on current releases of these distros. What functionality is missing from any of the available mail clients available in their repositories? All these things are supported with current security and bug fix updates as well. It seems you're complaining about nothing.
  
  --
  Write failed: Broken pipe
6. Re:Are you serious? by drinkypoo · 2013-05-05 19:01 · Score: 2
  
  Debian 7 is less than 24 hours into being the stable version, and went into release freeze status less than a year ago (2012-06-30). I'm endlessly amused by what people consider "old" these days.
  Irrelevant, because the versions of packages that Debian ships may not be current. They're the currently tested versions, which is why people run testing — the fully-tested versions are too old right out of the gate, in their opinion. Or, why people run Ubuntu.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
7. Re:Are you serious? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 19:06 · Score: 0
  
  I don't want Chrome, I use Firefox, and no you can't run a current version of Xfce on Debian Stable, and yes there is missing functionality from software I use such as Blender, and no I can't update it without also updating dependencies to the point where the whole "stable" thing becomes moot. And there's no "these distros" here, you started talking about Debian Wheezy and we're talking about Debian Wheezy.
  I'm not kernelpanicked but I also think the software in Wheezy is old and it is a very valid complaint. Debian Stable is appropriate for situations where old software doesn't make a difference, but just because it doesn't make a difference doesn't mean it's not old.
  Captcha: accept
8. Re:Are you serious? by Runaway1956 · 2013-05-05 21:34 · Score: 1
  
  "I'm endlessly amused by what people consider "old" these days."
  At work, if a computer still powers up and posts, it's new enough and good enough to make some drudge use it.
  At home - a year old computer/kernel/whatever is just alright. I'm looking for something newer to play with all the time.
  
  --
  "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
9. Re:Are you serious? by DuckDodgers · 2013-05-06 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  Debian 7 has some stuff that's relatively old, especially compared to what people expect when they get the latest Fedora, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, etc... GNOME 3.4.2, when GNOME 3.6 is 7 months old. X.org 1.12, when X.org 1.13 is 7 months old. Perl 5.14, when Perl 5.16 is 11 months old. Linux Kernel 3.2, when 3.4 is 11 months old. Iceweasal 10, when Firefox extended support 17 is 5 months old.
  
  I'm not knocking Debian, the Debian community, Debian's stability, or its security. But Debian stable's package selection is a little older than you would expect, and I believe it has been for the previous two releases too.
woadie by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:03 · Score: 0

How about a compact portable version titled Lil' Wheezy?
Re: still no secure boot since last article by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 15:11 · Score: 0

secure boot is an attempt by microsoft to make you not want to install linux. It's not even possible to boot a livecd unless secure boot is turned off. Linux shouldn't ever support it because in an ideal world your mobo really shouldn't either.
The Ubuntu guys who don't get it by G3ckoG33k · 2013-05-05 16:29 · Score: 1

Is it the Ubuntu guys who don't get it, or is it me?
Canonical taps Debian every six months and then add their own extras like brown colors and Unity. Then comes Mint and flavors both Debian and Ubuntu with mint.
But, in the meantime Debian changes, too. So, when Canonical or the Mint girls come back to the mothership there has been a number of changes, being more up-to-date than either of the children.
Is it the Ubuntu guys who don't get it, or is it just me?
1. Re:The Ubuntu guys who don't get it by bmo · 2013-05-05 17:34 · Score: 1
  
  or is it me?
  It's you.
  "Up To Date" != stability.
  I'm running 12.04, the equivalent of Wheezy, with PPAs for certain bleeding edge stuff I can tolerate crashing. I don't want a rolling release for bloody everything, thanks.
  Your post reeks of "stop liking what I don't like."
  --
  BMO
2. Re:The Ubuntu guys who don't get it by philip.paradis · 2013-05-05 18:45 · Score: 1
  
  You should read the GP again. He wasn't disagreeing with your position or advocating use of a rolling release.
  
  --
  Write failed: Broken pipe
Self mortification by GioMac · 2013-05-05 17:14 · Score: 1

It's a real torture. People are switching from one derivative distro to another, adding 3rd repositories, switching to testing repos etc. All this stuff brings more incompatibilities, decentralization and divides community forces.
Ubuntu is Ubuntu and there are LTS and short lifecycle versions of distros. it's not Debian at all.
Is it so hard for Debian to have two main distros like "Debian Stable" and "Debian Mainstream"? Everybody will be happy. I've heard another post-self-mortification words like "you know we've got 236272927 packages in here". Oh yes, it's scaring, you are using only 5% of these packages and 95% of users - about 15 I think... Who cares about the rest? Why are they so blind?

--
"It feels like I'm at the Zoo when reading this thread - I'm frightened, but it's interesting" (c)
1. Re:Self mortification by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 18:51 · Score: 0
  
  it's not Debian at all.
  um, I think you'll find it is somewhat related...
2. Re:Self mortification by dehole · 2013-05-06 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Debian Testing exists for those who want newer packages, aka "Debian Mainstream". I believe its impossible to make everyone happy, and I agree with the Debian approach to their product.
  I think there are at least two kinds of people when it comes to linux, there are people who want to get things done, and people who want everything to be perfect. For those people who want everything to be perfect, they switch DE's, switch distros, and try to find the perfect combination of tools, often giving up on a distro that is good enough, to find one that is 'perfect'. The other kind of people realize that their operating system is just a tool that lets them do other things (create things, surf the web, look at kittens), and once they find a OS that lets them accomplish what they really want to do, they stay with it because they aren't looking for something that is perfect, they only want something that is good enough and reliable.
3. Re:Self mortification by Minwee · 2013-05-06 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  Is it so hard for Debian to have two main distros like "Debian Stable" and "Debian Mainstream"? Everybody will be happy.
  That's a good idea, but can I suggest a small change? Make three of them and call them stable, unstable and testing. Then you can have one distribution that is well tested and reliable which people can use as a reliable, long lasting platform, one which is more up to date while still being fairly solid, and another which can have the latest features but which may not have all the issues straightened out. The alternative, having two completely different distributions called "Debian Enterprise Linux" and "Debian Fedora", has already been tried by another group and has somehow failed to bring about an age of universal peace and contentment.
  
  I've heard another post-self-mortification words like "you know we've got 236272927 packages in here". Oh yes, it's scaring, you are using only 5% of these packages and 95% of users - about 15 I think... Who cares about the rest? Why are they so blind?
  If they were so blind, it would be because they weren't paying attention to the popularity contest. Yes, 15% of packages are installed on 95% of the systems surveyed. What of it? Not all users have the same needs. 95% of the adult male population of the USA is under 190cm is height. Does it also trouble you that the remaining 5% are able to find pants in their size?
4. Re:Self mortification by GioMac · 2013-05-06 05:23 · Score: 1
  
  Testing is for accepting into Stable, so, it's the same without major feature changes and some fixes: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-ftparchives#s-frozen Unstable is more like development version, not the "Debian Fedora". If they're paying attention, if everything is fine, then why do we have aptosid in here? According to distrowatch, Debian has already spawned more than 120 derivatives (c) debian.org (!). RHEL/Fedora have 28, and most of them are very specific, like trixbox, clearos, Yellowdog, centos, scientific. There is a huge diversity in Debian and community is creating general use distros outside the Debian project. Why? Is it so hard to allow maintainers to deliver changes and add-ons via subprojects? At least two mainlines. I guess it's because of Ubuntu, and there we've got LTS. It's separatism and very closed approach, like Oracle is playing with MySQL.
  
  --
  "It feels like I'm at the Zoo when reading this thread - I'm frightened, but it's interesting" (c)
5. Re:Self mortification by HiThere · 2013-05-06 16:39 · Score: 1
  
  At least CentOs is a Fedora derivitive (well, a Red Hat derivative) rather than a Debian derivative. Not sure about Yellow Dog. I think Scientific is also a Red Hat Derivative. And Another, White Box, may still be active.
  N.B.: Starting out as the derivative of a distro doesn't guarantee that you will remain such. Mandrake started out as a derivative of Red Hat.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
6. Re:Self mortification by GioMac · 2013-05-06 17:08 · Score: 1
  
  CentOS is not a Fedora derivative, there's a huge difference. CentOS is just a rebuild of RHEL's src.rpm's. RedHat must provide sources for all the changes, but not binary packages, this is how CentOS is born, same with Scientific. Yellowdog is created for PPC arch use.
  Mandrake is/was BASED on RedHat 5 (do not confuse with RHEL 5) and has nothing to do now with RHEL. It's a separate product which has it's own commercial way.
  Suse was initially same as Slackware, but now it has nothing to do with Slack, and has absolutely different approach.
  So, again, why should I have 100 derivative distros doing almost the same, instead of having two with remixes and subrepos?
  
  --
  "It feels like I'm at the Zoo when reading this thread - I'm frightened, but it's interesting" (c)
7. Re:Self mortification by HiThere · 2013-05-07 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  Why not? The people who have common needs are well served (we hope) by the common distributions. People with specialized needs may refer one of the less common distributions. Nobody needs all of them, but everybody can find some distribution that is satisfactory.
  Personally, I've settled on Debian, but I give occasional checks of a few other distributions to see is they're in some way better. So far the answer has been no, but that's no guarantee for the future.
  As an example, I don't understand why anyone would prefer to use a distro that required that they use Gnome3 or Unity. But some people prefer that. So I'm glad that they can find a distro that serves them, even if to me it seems senseless. My use case isn't theirs.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Debian stable by zrbyte · 2013-05-05 19:09 · Score: 1

There is a reason they call it that.
Re:still no secure boot since last article by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 21:26 · Score: 0

I suspect that you would like to suck Torvalds - but he shot you down, you little queer.
Re:poop by crutchy · 2013-05-05 22:58 · Score: 1

not even any reference to hosts files.... pathetic
Re:still no secure boot since last article by crutchy · 2013-05-05 23:05 · Score: 1

if you build your own system, secure boot is a non issue
if you buy an oem box with windows on it and then wonder why linux won't install, you're holding it wrong
Re:still no secure boot since last article by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-05 23:33 · Score: 0

LAPTOPS,
Re:still no secure boot since last article by morgauxo · 2013-05-05 23:54 · Score: 1

...have pretty much always sucked.
They are filled with hardware that is difficult or impossible to use in non-windows OSs, for that matter, they are often even difficult to get working with a Windows OS that isn't the same version the laptop shipped with.
They have poor life expectancy and are prone to overheating.
Their #1 advantage, portability goes out the window after a year when the battery stops holding a decent charge.
Give me a good desktop any day. If I want to be portable that's ok, VNC will run on whatever OS the craptop likes.
Re:still no secure boot since last article by morgauxo · 2013-05-05 23:55 · Score: 1

Oh.. i meant to include in that list...
They have pretty much zero upgradeability.
Re:still no secure boot since last article by crutchy · 2013-05-06 10:08 · Score: 1

i only buy toshiba laptops with win7 (i won't be buying a laptop with win8). i've never had a problem getting linux on. maybe you're holding them wrong too.
if you're stupid enough to buy a laptop with win8 with the intention of putting linux on, you're also holding it wrong.
when all laptops have uefi and lock linux out, then maybe i'll bitch. at the moment there is no sign of that though, and given microsoft's foray into surface, i imagine their traditional oems may be looking to diversify to reduce their risk exposure. a few oems are becoming more linux friendly (even if they don't supply preinstalled linux)... http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/
If you think Debian Stable is too old to be usefu by npsimons · 2013-05-07 03:41 · Score: 2

If you think Debian Stable is too old to be useful, give Atposid a spin!
If you think Debian Stable is too old to be useful, you're a retard.

--
Nathan's blog
Re: If you think Debian Stable is too old to be us by Anonymous Coward · 2013-05-15 08:45 · Score: 0

What about newer Atheros usb/ethernet chip support? Not in the sid kernel backport for Squeeze I believe. If this Aptosid (sounds like an indigestion medication) has that out of the box I might just give it a whirl on my laptop.