Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Prepares Rethink On Windows 8
jones_supa writes "Microsoft has confirmed to be preparing to reverse course over elements of Windows 8. 'Key aspects' of how the software is used will be changed when Microsoft releases an updated version of the operating system this year, Tami Reller, head of marketing and finance for the Windows business, said in an interview with the Financial Times. Referring to difficulties many users have had with mastering the software, she added: 'The learning curve is definitely real.'"
While this decision is generally being framed as a frantic backtrack for Microsoft, it comes as the company has recently passed 100 million Windows 8 licenses sold. Clearly they see this as more of a course adjustment than bailing water from a sinking ship. Microsoft also plans to preview the update called 'Windows Blue' in June.
...prediction: They'll lash in a start button but still try and force the user to go through Metro first.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Personally, I went back to Windows 7 because I didn't like the constant switching / start screen. I shouldn't have to install a separate app to get the start button back. Give us an option for tablet or desktop mode.
I am no Microsoft fan however I am glad to see them responding to customer feedback on their product. IT is good to see large companies shape products based on customer response - particularly when they command a very large share of a market.
KK4SFV
Of course that's what Microsoft cares about, but it's irrelevant to the point of fixing this broken OS.
People don't buy Windows; they buy computers.
\subject
Just put back the start button.
"One size fits all" rarely does.
I guess I am trying to be facetious, but rather than the strengths of different devices coming together through some kind of unified OS metaphor all the weaknesses joined forces instead.
Now go and make something REALLY GOOD
I can't add a wireless profile if the surface unit can't see the network. When it can, I can't get it to use the certificate and it starts asking for a wifi password.
Then there's the compatibility problems. And the hiding of familiar places to make admin changes. And the removal of the start menu.
Microsoft should have listened to people instead of trying to strong-arm them into changing.
Microsoft is misspelling things again.
It's spelled "Windows Blue", but pronounced "Windows Blew".
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Seriously? Nobody takes a crack at marketing calling the new one blue? If you thought windows 8 was bad, the new version is guaranteed to leave you blue... or something?
01:36AM up 426 days, 2:46, 1 user, load average: 0.14, 0.11, 0.05
Today I took delivery of my new work PC. When I ordered it I asked for Windows 8... One has to keep up with these things, right? Bloody hell...
Seriously, when one has to Google on another computer for instructions on how to bring up the damn (well hidden) address bar in the browser, you know your "intuitive" design is bad, bad, bad. Luckily I already knew about the (equally well hidden) active corners of the screen to bring up the Start screen, Desktop and Charm bar,so I did manage to get around, sort of. Trying to find some essential system settings proved impossible until I ended up installing StartIsBack, which gives me the start menu and old desktop upon boot; after that I could access the old style control panel. Windows 8 is just fine and dandy... Now that I have it working just like Windows 7. Honestly, the Metro interface is not that bad on a mobile device with a touch screen, but it has no place on a desktop PC.
Sure, all new UIs will require some learning. But never, not since Windows 3.11, have I had such a hostile experience from a new OS.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
This just further demonstrates that Microsoft doesn't get it. They seem to think that it's because it's all "different" and there is a "learning curve" which is why people don't like it.
The real reasons:
1) Metro apps default to one app on the screen, and break any sophisticated workflow which requires multiple widows. This is removed functionality, not just an interface change.
2) The UI requires more wrist movement or "gorilla arms", which forces people to do more physical work which adds up for things like muscle strain.
3) They try to force the same interface on two different kinds of setups - small touchscreen tablets/hybrids, and desktop setups with potentially multiple large monitors. There is no way to have a nice uniform interface for both kinds of setups.
There are certainly many more, but those are the worse that I can think of. It's not about learning a different interface - it's that there are genuine drawbacks and genuine functionality removed that needs to be given back.
100 million Windows 8 licenses sold.
I just bought a notebook for my mother's birthday.
Since she is used to Ubuntu on the desktop computer, is was the natural OS of choice.
Windows 8 never saw the light of the day... yet since it came preloaded, it still counts as a sale for Microsoft.
If I clone myself, can I call it a thread?
If a girl winks to us, can I call it a race condition?
They may have sold 100M licenses to manufacturers, but adoption is still under 4%: http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0
Microsoft has a habit of padding their sales results. How many of those 100 million licenses are currently in use? Does it include bulk purchases by OEMs? Does a Windows 8 license get subtracted when a user upgrades to Windows 7 or Linux?
Will be the new normal to see Windows Blue Screen now.
How many stayed with 8 after buying the computer or laptop, I know I have switched at least 30 to Windows 7 from 8. Windows 8 has also caused at least 5 friends to switch to Mac. Hopefully blue is a good fix/revision!!!
>difficulties many users have had with mastering the software, she added: 'The learning curve is definitely real.'"
Wow, just wow. It's not their fault it sucks, it's our fault for being too stupid to realize how awesome it is.
Classic interface is default
Metro available as a theme
Honestly, Windows 8 is pretty snazzy once you put a start menu on there like Start8 or something. I personally don't like the Classic Shell free ones, but for $5 Start8 is pretty awesome. Regardless, I'm certain they will be bringing it back. Having a hybrid environment of both the Start Screen and Desktop mode is actually quite nice. It's like I'm working in desktop mode 9am-5pm and they I open up the Start Screen mode for watching my movies, reading news, social networking, etc. It's not for everybody and has a ways to go, but the concept of a hybrid interface is something I think we'll start seeing more of in the future.
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
The key question is not how many of this or that MS is shipping but why and what direction the sales are going. Most companies and home users have a bevy of Windows only software that they are somewhat committed to. People also need to buy a new machine every now and then. These two facts mean that your average corporate or home consumer will buy their next machine without much thought and will buy a windows 8 machine. The more savvy buyer might even insist on getting Windows 7. But the average user, both corporate and home, are moving into a cloudy world where they need a browser as their primary software and an Office suite as a secondary. This still allows MS to have a slight grasp as MS Office is still mostly the standard.
But and this is a big but. Things like LibreOffice can suit many user's needs and if I were a student doing term papers I would use a combination of google drive and google docs. Docs so my stuff is everywhere and can't be lost and Drive so that if I loose connectivity I have it on my machine. This might seem like a small market but the students of today are the consumers of tomorrow.
Lastly many home consumers are skipping the whole home desktop/laptop all together. A larger screened phone is generally all they need for most of their needs. This also goes for corporate types. The average higher level manager / road warrior is fine with a tablet / BB combo or some other mobile technology.
Soon the only people really needing a Windows machine (as opposed to some agnostic OS that primarily serves up a browser) will be specialty users such as accountants. Many other power users will be fine with either a Mac or Linux.
Which then leads to the whole server market. Linux is pretty dominating. My personal experience is that the MS shops out there are hard core MS evangelists who don't mind buying and managing huge piles of licenses which is getting even harder with many larger companies going with internal cloud systems that can spool up 20/200/2000 new machines on a whim.
I don't think that Windows 8 is the problem. I don't think it is the Metro interface beyond the fact that some MBAs at MS probably had these great spreadsheets showing huge desktop app sales. MS is declining for many other reasons. Preinstalled Bloatware would be a big one. But the key question is why I should not be using Linux, Android, MacOS, QNX? What is it that MS offers me to come back? For some reason it just doesn't appeal to me to pay an extra $100 when I buy a $500 device just so that I can run Windows. I don't see why I would want to run servers that could get me sued if I don't manage the licensing. I can see why people might stay through inertia but that isn't a very good business model in the long term.
Man, I am disappointed. I sure hope Microsoft, in their mad rush to undo the damage they perceive, doesn't ruin the touch experience on the touch screen computers out there already.
From the article:"There’s a level of risk and creativity going on that would never have happened two years ago.”
Creativity is not forcing people to use an iPad interface on their desktops, a better word would be idiocy. Idiocy, as in forcing system admins to use an iPad interface on Windows Server 2012. Idiocy, as in having two taskbars, one on the bottom, and one auto-hiding on the right side.
These kinds of articles are supposed to make us feel better about Microsoft? I'd suggest not celebrating until they have actually DONE something. Lets see if they actually improve anything - there is a good chance they will make things even worse!
This isn't the first time they have screwed over their customers, and the sure as hell isn't the last.
Metro, because they were expecting good milage out of it. However most people took to it the same as a very small and awkward car with only three cylinders.
The biggest Windows update since, well, forever. This WAS to be Microsoft's tablet dominating step into the future.
And they got it wrong. They didn't just get it wrong, they proclaimed loudly and repeatedly that Windows 8 was the best ever and we were just supposed to suck it up. Even though we knew they got it wrong.
Now Microsoft admits that they got it wrong and the next release will 'fix all that'. I guess we weren't all just fussing over nothing.
Fool me once.
They should just fork ubuntu like everyone else does.
Windows 9 (GNU/Linux)
After brazening it out for a few days, the CEO admitted, "OK, yeah, we fucked this up." You think Ballmer will have the class to do the same? We'll get corporate mealy-mouthing about "improvements" that shirk his culpability for one of the biggest (and most predictable) fiascos in PC history.
1. As much as they need to re-think the whole Metro implementation for users without touchscreen hardware, from what I've read they are *NOT* bringing back the old desktop Start Menu, they are simply putting an icon in the familiar place to get to Metro. Metro is still the place where you will launch programs/apps from... and I will continue to bypass it altogether with Classic Shell on my desktop PC. I don't need a complete context change just to open a command prompt, control panel or start programs. Perhaps surprising to MS, I prefer to do my computing at a desk with a 24" non-touchscreen monitor, and I will not be replacing it anytime soon just so that I can bend forward and reach across the keyboard to smudge a hidden menu with my index finger.
2. As we all know, the 100 million licenses sold BS is just that. MS is conflating OEM licenses shipped with actual users actively purchasing and/or using Windows 8 software. They can pull this off because Windows is the de facto shipping OS on virtually all PC hardware. It is obviously to their advantage to maintain this sleight of hand, so don't expect them to get honest any time soon.
Every new PC worldwide ships with Windows 8 on it. Consumers don't really have a choice. They get Windows 8 whether they like it or not. Even Vista's numbers looked good, even though people hated it. And Windows 8 is far worse than Vista ever was. I like the desktop. I love Metro. The unhappy marriage of the two is exceptionally annoying.
I hope they bring back Aero. For all its other faults, there's nothing quite as disconcerting as the 'flatland' style (no bevels, shadows, lack of contrast between elements, and generally a white-washed look).
Why OpalCalc is the best Windows calc
They didn't realize Gmail Blue was an April's Fool joke.
http://mail.google.com/mail/help/intl/en/promos/blue/
Now if we could just convince the Web design community not to impose the hacks required for constrained UIs on non-constrained platforms. I'm pointing at you, Google. I do not need a handful of links and a "more" button on my 1680 wide display. Show me all the links if you can, based on the value returned for display dimensions, which I'm pretty sure you can get from the browser.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
If you simply uninstall all so called "windows look and feel" more commonly known as metroUI applications, than the start screen becomes essentially a start menu. This goes a long way to making windows 8 usable on a non tablet system (touchscreens on desktops or even laptops are pretty much a novelty as the combination of keyboard mouse/track-pad makes for a much more capable input device) but it doesn't cure all ills. Microsoft made all kinds of trade-offs to make a supposedly unified UI, One that particularly annoys me is the inability to rearrange the order of wireless networks. I am no stranger to the command line but it seems rather nonsensical to make something as simple as reordering wireless networks impossible from the gui.
Old Coke came back.. Same goes for Windows! :)
I think Microsoft has gotten a bad rap on Windows 8, mainly from a very very vocal but overwhelming MINORITY of PC users that are resistant to change and can't handle learning new and better ways of interacting with PCs.
I personally think Windows 8 with Metro is wonderful, and creates a consistent and easy to use interface across all of my devices (which include Phone, Tablet, and PC).
I hope they don't listen to the equivalent of computer teabaggers and just dump the greatest idea to hit computing since Windows ME.
"We fucked up."
Now, give us the option to *completely* remove any interjections from Metro (start screen, WinKey+tab, charms, network selection, search, probably a number of other elements I've forgotten), ie.: real-actual-computer-to-get-shit-done mode. Also get rid of that horrible, difficult-to-read low contrast color scheme and bring back the only good thing Vista brought us: Aero Glass.
Do these things and we might forgive you. Otherwise, fuck this shit, I'm going to Debian.
It is a steaming pile of donkey fecalation, however, with ClassicShell hiding the metro monstrosity and providing a usable start menu, it is a pretty stable well performing OS. Shame they had to unify the experience between unrelated platforms. That being said Ubuntu 13.04 is stable, familiar, and easily de-Unityed if one feels like it. In this day and age, a decent chunk of the market just wants certain things to run on their computer. Blue, or Green or Red, or whatever, won't make a difference, it is easy to just try something else. They successfully changed stuff too much, and for no reason.
F2 still works on my uefi laptop. Don't know about if it still works with fast boot as I nuked my mswindows as soon as I got it and installed windows (X windows, thank you) on it instead with gnu-licious linux of the debian flavor.
What happened to that kid employee in the store who supposedly made everything look so easy?
I'd bet money within a year and a half Ubuntu makes a similar announcement.
... How many we're new pcs that instantly got downgraded? How many are enterprise licenses that have not been used?
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
100 million sold? Or 100 million packaged with laptops, PCs and tablets forced down the throats of unwitting users that definitely would rather have had windows 7 had they any clue?
The most hilarious part of this whole debacle on Microsofts part is that we recently decided to upgrade from WinXP to Win7 finally... and as part of that a few people said "hey, why don't we just go for Win8 while we're at it?" so they put together some focus groups of generally non-tech savvy employees to see how long it would take them to get a grasp on how to do their jobs using the new OS. One of the security guys in charge of the project is a big apple fan and argued we needed a control... and wanted to use OSX... management thought it wasn't such a bad idea, but of course, we're NOT switching to Apple any time soon so instead they used Redhat. Win7 was easiest for them to pick up of course... but Redhat beat Win8 by a country mile. There were many in test that never got Win8 to work for their jobs. I wasn't privy to all of the hurdles they found and what-not. But it's pretty staggering to think MS screwed up their UI so much that a bunch of our least talented salesmen were more capable of using Linux that it.
So why shouldn't MS screw up our experience?
Personally, I like Google Blue better
http://mashable.com/2013/04/01/gmail-blue/
When I first turned on my new PC loaded with Windows 8, I was flabergasted by the Metro screen. I did not know what the hell to do, but after painstaking searches on Google I was able to cobble together a desktop system that meets my needs. Now I never even see the Metro screen except by accident.
All I can say is that this is the worst customer service fiasco by a major corporation in history, and is even more ridiculous since they planned and conspired to strong-arm their customers into some glitzy crap mode of computing which does not fit with efficient productivity work. As an example of the loonyness expressed by the creators, on the Power button 'Hibernate' is not one of the default choices. You have to dig into the system to find it. What a load of holy bullshit!
Classic shell http://www.classicshell.net/ is a free, open-source fix for Windows 8. It brings back the proper windows 7 or windows xp start button and menu. It allows you to boot straight to the desktop so you never see the metro interface, and it can disable all the 'hot-corners' mouse-over elements that might bring you back to the metro stuff. Essentially it allows you to get all the benefits of Windows 8 (faster bootup, great task-manager and improved desktop UI) without any of Microsoft's botched experiments.
I recently bought a Dell touchscreen all-in-one PC, which you'd think would be the ideal platform to use the Metro UI, but in fact I've completely disabled it, firstly because many other people use the computer and I don't want to have to explain to them how to use Windows, but also because the Windows App Store where you buy/download Metro apps is completely useless. I tried to install QQ messenger by clicking the link on the QQ website, and instead of opening the store at that app, it opens on the front page. Searching in the store for QQ brings up no useful results. I was almost tempted to install the Metro version of Skype instead of the desktop one, but the pages and pages of one star reviews convinced me otherwise.
I feel sorry for anyone who bought one of the budget Surface tablets that can only run the Metro UI. Windows 8 is great, once you turn off Metro and the giant start menu.
cokane.com
Metro Metro Metro! That's what the media is focusing on, but it's not the real reason Windows 8 failed.
W-8 failed because Microsoft thought they'd be able to screw their developers the way that Apple's been screwing iOS developers since day one. Going full walled-garden for the Metro UI while at the same time effectively forcing developers to abandon Silverlight and Flash due to concerns about long-term viability meant there really was no compelling reason for a developer to bother with Windows 8. My company, a manufacturer of population-based analytical software that runs on a massively-parallel database, basically abandoned Windows as a development platform. In the middle of a product cycle.
Those MSDN/Visual Studio/Team Foundation/etc. licenses will never happen. Now, at great expense and risk, we've decided to go down the HTML5+Javascript path for the front end. It sucks. It sucks so badly that there's not a person in the shop who doesn't want to abandon the project altogether. But at least it will be portable if it ever gets built. It'll take two years longer than it would have if Microsoft hadn't screwed us over, but that's the price of doing business I guess. (The JBOSS backend is painful too, but not to the degree that an HTML5/Javascript front-end is.)
Yet, all that could have been avoided if Microsoft hadn't hit the Greed button and tried to force the Metro UI down its developers' throats. We have no confidence in Microsoft EVER being a viable development platform again. Not when key components could be pulled out from under us just because they want to impose a UI tax.
And I know I'm not alone. I've heard the same story, read the same story, watched the same story unfold all over the internet.
Microsoft used to field the best damn development and application platform in the industry, hands down. It still does, actually. But unfortunately, I can't risk using it. And because of that fact, there's very little chance that I'll ever bother considering it in future efforts.
And THAT's why Windows 8 failed and any attempt to revive it will fail as well.
...job?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I automatically associate "Windows Blue" with "Blue Screen of Death". I literally can't help it, it's the first thing that pops into my mind.
Microsoft is misspelling things again.
It's spelled "Windows Blue", but pronounced "Windows Blew".
Is there more to consider; that is, will one also have to ReThink the meaning of Windows RT and how it differs from Windows 8.
Two things come to mind as I think about this update.
First: Who the hell code named this thing "Blue"? The first image in my head is "blue screen".
Second: I understand the need to overhaul and refresh an interface. Windows had looked like Windows for almost 20 years. Same with Apple, the main interface looked essentially the same for ages. OS X comes out, vastly differently looking than OS 9. And yet the main top toolbar is still there. Regardless of program I still have "File Edit View..." etc. Some things are in different places, the bottom tool bar is new, so there was learning curve, but not too steep. Microsoft with version 8? Complete overhaul, with nothing the same on the user's interface. And what a surprise, the masses revolt! Had they gone the Apple route and had separate desktop and mobile versions they'd have saved a ton of headache and been sitting better off.
Microsoft isn't "finished" yet...but when you're getting to be known for only getting every other Windows version "right", that's bad for business. 2000, XP, 7 - good Me, Vista, 8 - not so good
does that make me some kind of genius?
(God is disappointed in the rest of you, more was expected...)
Jeremiah Cornelius posited:
Microsoft is misspelling things again.
It's spelled "Windows Blue", but pronounced "Windows Blew".
No, no, no.
There's nothing past tense about it.
Check out my novel.
M$ is starting damage control over a one perhaps slightly un-hinged employee Ms. Reller.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/05/07/can-microsoft-really-make-a-u-turn-on-windows-8/
Look for Ms. Reller to exit M$ VERY soon; M$ is investigating Legal complaints against Ms. Reller and that CAN take some time to sort out.
And now if they'd only announce that they were allowing users of MsOffice to use menus instead of the awful Ribbon. I could get MsOffice2007 for a very cheap price, but instead I'm using LibreOffice, because it still has menus.
(Actually, I'm starting to use LaTeX more and more, because I can't get section numbering to work right on MsWord or Libre's Writer. But it's trivial in LaTeX.)
Why couldn't the car users back in the late 50s grok that tail fins were the greatest idea to hit automobiles since the Edsel?
Oh wait...
or will a server product have metro interface, that will be slow as crap on remote desktop on slow nets.
its a one person job to put it back in
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
For those of you that don't "like" windows 8, you're a pack of cry babies!
You'll fall behind the kids of today and end up like your 80/90yo grandparents and their ability to adopt technology.
My 5yo niece picked up windows 8 in a month coming from XP.
I actually like the interface and all the advanced new features. If your argument is that you don't like the new locations of everything, it sounds much like the XP/7 debate. If you're argument is that you don't like the new Metro App Framework, it sounds much like "http://ask.slashdot.org/story/13/05/08/002258/ask-slashdot-why-wont-companies-upgrade-old-software".
Resistance to change is an inherent human flaw, but I thought fellow slashdoters would generally be on the other end of the scale.
My only gripe is the Market Place policy.
Rant complete!
"While this decision is generally being framed as a frantic backtrack for Microsoft, it comes as the company has recently passed 100 million Windows 8 licenses sold." You're forgetting that a certain percentage of those licenses include "downgrade" rights, to install Windows 7 instead.
Windows 8 is OK. What I find problematic about it is that the traditional desktop and Metro seem to clash with one another even though you can use them both simultaneously. On the outside you want to pick which environment you want to spend the most time in; if you want to stay in Metro, then use only Metro apps, but if you want to live in the Desktop, then you find yourself avoiding any Metro apps. It's just too hard to mix the two together.
Assuming, however, that you just want to use the Desktop all the time, Windows 8 is not that big of a deal. It boils down to the fact that they took away the start menu, and that apparently drives people nuts. Personally, I don't even like the start menu. The programs you use all the time end up being pinned to the task bar, and for the occasional other program, you just hit the Windows key and type in its name. It's really not hard, but people just don't figure this out. My uncle got a new Windows 8 laptop last week, and right when he got it I told him three or four times to use the Windows key and type in order to search for the program he wanted, and he *still* would just open the start screen with the mouse and then open "All Programs" and sit there reading all the entries in order to find the program he was looking for. A few days later he said, "You know, I realized I can just hit the Windows key to switch between the Desktop and the start screen."
I would consider Windows 8 to be an upgrade from 7, but people struggle with the interface changes. Windows 7 has a more "pure" UI experience, and it's what people expect.
Reading everything, it's actually Windows 9/Windows 8.1/Windows Blue/Windows 6.3. I kid you not. It is called all of those officially by MS.
http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/index.asp
This start menu blends well with Windows 8's theme, replicates all Windows 7 start menu features, and has options to boot to desktop and disable hot corners. Only caveat is that it does cost $5, but is probably the best polished Windows 8 start menu out there.
I think Win 8.1 will be a great step forward for them. Not only will it fix most of the things consumers hate about Win8, it will be timed to coincide with Bay Trail and Haswell, and possibly will tie in with XBox "720" (whatever it will be called). It'll never make fans of the slashdot crowd, but it could well become a major market success. Ridiculing Windows and Microsoft has never seemed to matter very much.
I usually sprinkle in some gratuitous criticism of them and their products as it seems standard protocol for slashdot, but that has gotten tiresome. Win 8.1 and their other products might well be a very strong play this year.
Too bad Microsoft doesn't have to pay a $1 everytime someone misassociates the term Metro with something produced by Microsoft?
Suborbital [spaceflight] is the special olympics of spaceflight. - Rei
Nooo! :(
I like Windows 8 the way it is and ought to evolve. Please do not handicap it to suit snails, i'll just revert to Linux desktop (again) once its touch UX rivals that of Windows 8.
If i had a say, i'd stop at optionally making the taskbar visible always, and somehow merge with left bar functionality (the touch alt-tab). The startscreen is fine, except that it could use some form of nested folders or (optional) vertical scrolling. The moment i descide to launch another app, i never ever need to see the other windows opened, except for a list that shows whats running but thats solved by making the taskbar visible anyway.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
Surel not even they can polish a turd!
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Damn it, where are mod points when you need them? That one was good, I honestly never even really thought about the similarities between those two words...
It's getting so tiring!.
I've been using both Windows 7 and Windows 8 since December and I still don't understand this "learning curve" is.
Step 1: start the computer (bonus: it doesn't even require as much patience as a Win7 boot)
Step 2: Look at the Metro start screen and start flinging your feces like your primate brethren ("I don't like change!")
Step 3: Click the big button that says "Desktop"--complete with a picture of your desktop--and everything's back to normal
I didn't even need to go out of the way to download MSE, since windows defender already includes in now. If anything, the start screen is just an extended start menu that can hold more than a dozen shortcuts.
Windows 8NT4Me
We create software icons mainly for Windows (from XP to WIndows 8) and always need to follow the latest Microsoft style guidelines. When we started working on the Windows 8 icons we immediately saw that Microsoft was doing something awefully wrong by mixing two totally different UI styles in one single operating system.
So we came up with the idea that there should be a transition or "fading" between both styles in order to make it easier for Windows Vista/7 users to get used to the new style. So we took the old Vista/7 icons and converted them to monochrome versions, while keeping the overall shape. With some Javascript this could be used for a very cool transition between the old Vista/Windows 7 and the new Windows 8 style.
Unfortunately this idea never really took off (we never saw anybody use this), but I still think it could make the new style much more acceptable for users of Windows Vista/7.
If you are interested here is our technical page demonstrating how the transition works (some animated samples, lots of technical details):
http://www.iconexperience.com/technical/
Signature deleted by lameness filter.
and what percentage of that is from people who wanted to buy a new computer; got stuck with windows 8; and have no way out. 20%, 50%, 80%... I recently purchased a new laptop for the hardware which came with windows 8, not that it ever got booted as I installed a more useful OS instead, so I guess I'm one of the 100 million licenses sold.
Melinda Gates (yes, Bill's wife) pushed through Microsoft Bob.
Julie Larsen-Green was twice as bad.
1) She pushed through the MS Office ribbon interface
2) Then she pushed through Metro
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
They could just keep selling Windows 7
They would do well to take Windows 8, do a Windows 7 interface option to it, and call it something like Windows 7.5. That way, the OS would sound more Windows 7 compatible, while retaining the internal Windows 8 features that are so good, but totally lost due to the fiasco over the Metro interface.
For the tablets and phones, just call the OS Metro, instead of Windows 8 or Windows RT. It gives them a clean start, and they can have different ports of Metro for ARM, Atom/Fusion and MIPS. There are very much Asian vendors who even use MIPS chips as the basis of their platforms, and since NT once existed on MIPS, no reason why Windows 8 can't have that capability as well. Have Metro for these 3 platforms on tablets & phones, and then release them.
For the OS, make Windows 7.5 the last OS, and from here on, just do updates. Things that are there - the win64 API, the newer kernel and so on - can be the basis for a long time. Microsoft could morph into a blend of Symantec & IBM, and exist by providing services based on Windows - be it anti-virus, bug fixes and so on. The OS itself can continue to sell @ say, $40 or $50, so that it's not unreasonable to expect customers to pay for it, rather than pirate it.
Got to love a correction to a correction: I said you could actually run the Win95 shell on NT4 without changes but I meant on NT 3.51. 3.51 was a lot more stable than 4.0 due to merging of the Kernel and GDI memory spaces in 4.0, so more people than you might think actually did this.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"Start Menu only available thru business-class volume licensing."
Against my advice, my parents bought a Windows 8 machine so I've had a fair bit of chance to play with it and to hear from a couple of "typical" computer users what their experience with Windows 8 is like.
Everyone who has used that machine *hates* the start screen. While one would think you can "fit more" than with the start menu, in practice what you have is the ability to show or hide the sub-menus as groups of icons. Once you tell it to show stuff you actually *want* (like Games), the start screen rapidly becomes 2-3 physical screens wide. So now not only do you have to drag your mouse all over the place to reach the icons/tiles, you have to scroll the screen/menu to reach them.
My Dad is particularly frustrated with Windows 8. As far as he's concerned, nothing works right except Firefox, and even that ticks him off because he has to scroll all the way over to the right on the start screen to find it's icon.
My Mom is ticked off with the Metro interface on her card games. The "click top and drag down" metaphor for shutting down applets is not intuitive, and without a touch screen, it's also difficult to use. Mom has always had difficulty with "click and hold" aspects of applications because of her arthritis. Most of the time she just gives up because she can't hold the mouse button down long enough to drag it to the bottom of the screen.
Personally what I hate is that there is no actual "windowing" of Metro apps. Everything is full screen. I haven't worked with full screen apps since the days of the 80x24 green screen terminal. I need to be able to access multiple applications at the same time. And the flash from work screen/desktop to start menu literally gives me a headache (I get migraines regularly, and eye strain from this type of interface aggravates them -- I despise Gnome 3 for the exact same reason.)
Windows 8: Epic FAIL!
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Well played. I prefer the bra section in the Bay catalog, though.
That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
Highlighting the obvious similarity of the Metro interface to the Sesame Street web site is the best dump on Windows 8's flagship yet. Another (derivative) comparison is with the McDonald's cash register (which amazingly enough can be bought). I'm sure there are Idiocracy references too. 5 seconds on Google confirms it.
I come here for the love
So far I've come into contact with about a dozen people that have "bought" Windows 8. Not a single 1 of them wanted it, but it's forced upon them when buying the computer.
Of the 100 million, I'd like to know the percentage that actually wanted Windows 8. I wouldn't be surprised if that number drops down below 20 million.
And you're a liar Jeremiah Cornelius http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3722427&cid=43654735 acting as a pot calling a kettle black/hypocrite on what's in the subject-line above since you couldn't even spell "Penetration" on your resume, mispelling it "Pentration" instead and leaving it on LinkedIn for years that way. Hilarious part is you claimed to have done that for a job primarily. You're so full of it it is not funny. Keep sockpuppet modding yourself up for yoru crap posts too.
http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3725365&cid=43659719 since we all know you have issues with hosts files (and got your ass kicked in the 3 links shown there for it - of course, your more than welcome to try to disprove the points in them too, so you can look a fool all the more, as well as a liar who says he never trolls as ac and yet is shown saying he does, and admits to being a troll too http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3722427&cid=43654735 ) from your 100's of anonymous coward submitted posts you flooded this forums with for 3 months now but you made a mistake accidentally submitting 1 using your registered 'lusername' here giving yourself away as the troll doing it http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3581857&cid=43276741
APK
P.S.=> There's NO WAY you worked for Microsoft in a true technical capacity blundering as you did on relatively simple networking and computer science concepts in the 1st link above, and being a trolling liar as shown in the other links is no way to live life either...
... apk
Can anyone tell me what are the new features of Windows 8? If Windows Blue or Win9/whatever went back to the start button, then how would it be different than Windows 7? If you're going to sell me a product you need to tell me how my life will be better with the new product, but Windows 8 doesn't offer any new features over Win7. The interface is different, but comparing the 2 is a 'apples-to-oranges' comparison- some people like 7, some like 8, but that isn't an upgrade, it's an alternative. If they want to sell me a new version then they need to give me something that is better, not just different. For instance:
1. Use some of that research to create an OS that is impenetrable to virus, worms and over malware. Not more of this cat and mouse game of virus/antivirus but a real solution that solves the problem once and for all. Hint: microkernels, VT-X extensions
2. Upgrade some of the included programs- why doesn't MSPaint have the ability to open TGA files? Why doesn't it have red-eye removal tools? What about some basic photoshop-like features, such as bluring?
3. I hate to say it, but they need an app store that can install things easily. Want visual studio? One click. Want cygwin? One click.
4. Include virtualization software (HyperV light?). When you create a new client you have the option for it to have the same kernel that you have on the host, without having to run an installer. Automatically include tools to share files, networks between host and client OS
I'm not saying that these are brilliant ideas- what I'm saying is that Microsoft needs to step it up and give us more, not just different
Microsoft is misspelling things again.
It's spelled "Windows Blue", but pronounced "Windows Blew".
Let's quit beating around the bush here: The new OS is going to be called "Windows Blue Screen of Death". A complete operating system of nothing but the BSOD.
I understand what Microsoft is trying to do. They want one computer (a phone) that can be docked to a larger screen (a tablet) or docketed to a keyboard/mouse and a very large screen (a desktop). We are getting to the point where such a computer will exist. The trouble is: their implementation is horrible. It is possible to configure Win 8 as a desktop, that works as well as Win 7. You just have set a lot of defaults and use the "windows key" on your keyboard more often. If you configure your Win 8 as a desktop, it would make a horrible tablet or phone. What they need to do is have two sets of file associations, one for tablet mode and one for desktop mode. The resulting model should be that anything that starts in desktop mode stays in desktop mode, and anything that starts in tablet mode stays in table mode, other than explicitly requesting a mode change. Furthermore I should be able to run my tablet mode screen as a window in my desktop when I run in desktop mode.
Let's quit beating around the bush here: The new OS is going to be called "Windows Blue Screen of Death". A complete operating system of nothing but the BSOD.
Think of the quick load times and minimal system requirements.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
Let's quit beating around the bush here: The new OS is going to be called "Windows Blue Screen of Death". A complete operating system of nothing but the BSOD.
Think of the quick load times and minimal system requirements.
Yeah! Think of it's potential!
... Sorry... Mandatory "Always On Features" or "It's not DRM but Cloud stuff!" in games that you can't opt out of? No problem thanks to WinBSOD!
DRM
Piracy taking away preciousss money because dirty user Hobbits stealing them? Problem solved thanks to WinBSOD!
Terrorists using computers for terrorism or to plan terrorism? No problem thanks to WinBSOD!
Hackers doing hacking things? Gone! Problem solved thanks to WinBSOD!
Mean, not nice freedom of speech and expression? Say hello to WinBSOD!
Only problems for Microsoft would be the vast majority of users would flock to Apple and Linux in mass exodus only to give those two OSes the exact same problems that Windows did away with under the WinBSOD OS. So maybe that'd be a win for them too?
If they passed 100 millions licenses, they would not be backtracking at all. So that number is greatly exaggerated.
Put in a start button. Make metro a option. And touch screen a option of course. Drop the price to under $100 (especailly considering the fact its a tweaked up windows 7 and not really a whole new OS) and I'll actually buy it. Well??
I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
Had exact same reaction.
If so, it will fail so badly at getting to the bsod that it'll be stable, and therefore another failure.
If you like Asian women, then either you're blind or desperate. "Me love you long time" indeed. Just fucking hideous.
Appropriate naming. > Microsoft also plans to preview the update called 'Windows Blue' in June.