" I'm kinda sceptic about the performance in "demo systems" vs. performance in real systems. Remember Intels claims for how much MMX would speed just about everything up?"
In this case the demo systems were 800mhz and handed to a third party(I forget if it was anandtech or tom's h/w though). Not sure what that will come out to in real life
"That would be one of the fine open source operating systems around then. Well, you can always dream"
Yes your correct but we still have a few years before any of them can take over the mainstream market. Personally I would prefer it.
Thats assuming of course that IA64 even takes off.
So far it's looking like it won't be priced for the consumer market and can't be considering the huge die size used to provide room for the massive amount of transistors needed to even get it to preform on par with X86.
And that's in native mode of course I don't imagine emulated is anywhere near as fast. Can you remember why the PPro flopped? That's right it wasn't as fast for 16 bit code still being used in many apps and a certain consumer OS as the time. I don't imagine anything that runs 32 bit code slower than the current 32 bit CPUs will do well at all.
If anyone pulls it off it will be AMD with the Opteron whoes demo systems offered a 30% speed advantage over Athlons running at the same clock speed.
And that of course will pull all of the backward compatabillity crud with it for another generation of processors.
I don't see this changing until everyone is running an OS that allows apps to be ported between arches with a simple recompile. Unfortunatly I have my doubts about that happening in time to save the Itanic.
MS set the record for bad patches with NT4 with some patches crashing services ven disabling copeting sofware. It's not that much of a supprise that some admins are still afraid of patches to this day.
The basic problem is that some vendors like to roll security patches in with general software upgrades. MS has gotten better about that lately but then I still have an XP patch that prevents the system from booting.
The real fix is to avoid vendors who have a track record that bad.
" In the real world, we can't all just apply every patch immediately, some of us need to make sure that a patch won't cause a problem with vital services before we do so, and contrary to what you may have read on slashdot, those verification processes aren't always trivial."
How does "the real world" handle it when some kiddy beaks in and erases the webserver? I can count on a scan every 4 hours or so as soon as a new exploit is handed to the kiddies. That's not a large margin of error. But then I also avoid vendors who break things on security patches.
But then I wasn't talking about admins who take a week either.. I was referring to the idiots who can't even bother patching servers 2 MONTHS after a security fix is released.
I once tracked an attack an unpatched irix machine that hadn't been patched in three years. Clearly something is wrong with that picture.
"Hmm... wonder if that means running a non-up-to-the-latest-patch OS or application is a crime?"
After having to deal with expsnsive DoS attacks made possible by admins who didn't give a damn about security you won't find me crying should they start imposing a fine to running servers with known vulnerabillities...
After all I spend the time upgrading each time a new security patch is issued so why the hell should I have to suffer because of the incompetance of admins who don't?
More like wi-fi scares them because it's insecure by default and most big corps leave it on default settings without realising that it's the electronic equivelant of dropping your pants and bending over.
I actually asked a 3com sales guy about it a year ago and got "Well personally there is nothing on my network worth breaking into and I doubt there is anything on yours either"
These people need to take action and clean up before the govt gets more motivated to regulate them.
Must be the same guys who sold him that "uncrackable encryption" for hiding links he one thought would keep my former employer's buisness free of spam complaints.
Tell me about it.. I once had a programming student call my dad and have me come over to look at a "completely frozen computer" The guy had somehow deleted autoexec.bat and was looking at a DOS prompt instead of win 3.11.
It was bad.. what few interfaces that existed were so slow you generally had to do everything manually
Most of my old dos programming books have instructions on how to read and write the MSdos disk format directly.
If you did anything 32 bit the general idea was to disable MSdos entirely and getting back to 16 bit was *ugly*
When your apps are doing that many things manually it becomes a limmiting factor and we saw this when the disk formats became too big for the orignal structure and they came up with ugly hacks to extend it. It's also a bit twisted when any app can corrupt the filesystem. 1000 places for possible bugs instead of 1 (the OS).
Still.. it had it's fun times and a part of me will miss programming for it.
No need.. if everyone were to use a compartmentalised hull where each compartment could be sealed from the others you would have something completly unsinkable.
It would even lower costs elsewhere since lifebots would be rendered obsolete and you would only need just enough for your boat to look stylish.
No good.. Ralsky uses a constantly rotating set of ISPs to send the original mail to insecure mail servers.
Intermediate domains are also hosted on dialup.
His main site hosting locations are also disposable and that's something I tried and failed to explain to one of my previous employers who thought he would get rich working with Ralsky.I was proved right 2 months after I quit when Group Telecom terminated his fiber optic line. But hey hes got an endless string of idiots who he convinces will get rich working with him.
For Ralsky everything is disposable right down to his email address and cell phone.
It's not as if he doesn't know how to filter.. and as somone who worked for one of his many previous ISPs (quit over ralsky) I can tell you he has a pretty good yet souless tech.
"Hey... linus refused to change the behaviour of kill -9 -1 also"
I don't see how that's revelevent at all. Kill -9 -1 is not a security bug and there are many instances whre kill -somethingelse -1 is quite reasonable.
If you type that it's your own problem and Unix will happily shoot the gun exactly where you aimed it..
An attacker would need root access to do that and if an attacker has root there are much worse things (s)he can do to your system than shut off all it's processes..
Slashdot Mirror
" I'm kinda sceptic about the performance in "demo systems" vs. performance in real systems. Remember Intels claims for how much MMX would speed just about everything up?"
In this case the demo systems were 800mhz and handed to a third party(I forget if it was anandtech or tom's h/w though). Not sure what that will come out to in real life
"That would be one of the fine open source operating systems around then. Well, you can always dream"
Yes your correct but we still have a few years before any of them can take over the mainstream market. Personally I would prefer it.
Thats assuming of course that IA64 even takes off.
So far it's looking like it won't be priced for the consumer market and can't be considering the huge die size used to provide room for the massive amount of transistors needed to even get it to preform on par with X86.
And that's in native mode of course I don't imagine emulated is anywhere near as fast. Can you remember why the PPro flopped? That's right it wasn't as fast for 16 bit code still being used in many apps and a certain consumer OS as the time. I don't imagine anything that runs 32 bit code slower than the current 32 bit CPUs will do well at all.
If anyone pulls it off it will be AMD with the Opteron whoes demo systems offered a 30% speed advantage over Athlons running at the same clock speed.
And that of course will pull all of the backward compatabillity crud with it for another generation of processors.
I don't see this changing until everyone is running an OS that allows apps to be ported between arches with a simple recompile. Unfortunatly I have my doubts about that happening in time to save the Itanic.
I sure as hell hope that's not a server with access from the internet...
If it does have access to the internet then what you have there is a break in waiting to happen.
won't work .. hotmail for instance just dumps new messages as soon as the box is full.
"1) Don't use strcpy."
.. I've seen it done.
Don't use strncpy with the third var of strlen(sourcevar) either.
Seriously
MS set the record for bad patches with NT4 with some patches crashing services ven disabling copeting sofware. It's not that much of a supprise that some admins are still afraid of patches to this day.
The basic problem is that some vendors like to roll security patches in with general software upgrades. MS has gotten better about that lately but then I still have an XP patch that prevents the system from booting.
The real fix is to avoid vendors who have a track record that bad.
" In the real world, we can't all just apply every patch immediately, some of us need to make sure that a patch won't cause a problem with vital services before we do so, and contrary to what you may have read on slashdot, those verification processes aren't always trivial."
How does "the real world" handle it when some kiddy beaks in and erases the webserver? I can count on a scan every 4 hours or so as soon as a new exploit is handed to the kiddies. That's not a large margin of error. But then I also avoid vendors who break things on security patches.
But then I wasn't talking about admins who take a week either.. I was referring to the idiots who can't even bother patching servers 2 MONTHS after a security fix is released.
I once tracked an attack an unpatched irix machine that hadn't been patched in three years. Clearly something is wrong with that picture.
"Hmm... wonder if that means running a non-up-to-the-latest-patch OS or application is a crime?"
After having to deal with expsnsive DoS attacks made possible by admins who didn't give a damn about security you won't find me crying should they start imposing a fine to running servers with known vulnerabillities...
After all I spend the time upgrading each time a new security patch is issued so why the hell should I have to suffer because of the incompetance of admins who don't?
More like wi-fi scares them because it's insecure by default and most big corps leave it on default settings without realising that it's the electronic equivelant of dropping your pants and bending over.
I actually asked a 3com sales guy about it a year ago and got "Well personally there is nothing on my network worth breaking into and I doubt there is anything on yours either"
These people need to take action and clean up before the govt gets more motivated to regulate them.
Must be the same guys who sold him that "uncrackable encryption" for hiding links he one thought would keep my former employer's buisness free of spam complaints.
You would think he would have learned by now.
"What's surprising is that DOS *hasn't* been replaced by something better and more similar to the shells available under Unix."
You mean like 4Dos or the version of bash they ported to win32?
Just because you can't get them from MS doesn't mena you can't get them.
Tell me about it.. I once had a programming student call my dad and have me come over to look at a "completely frozen computer" The guy had somehow deleted autoexec.bat and was looking at a DOS prompt instead of win 3.11.
"The DOS command line is a stripped down, sodomized version of most *nix shells."
Not quite true.. it's CP/M with unix directory support and several other Unix lookalike features hacked on top of it.
Of course any power MSDos user used 4DOS but even that's not as nice as as the real thing.
It was bad.. what few interfaces that existed were so slow you generally had to do everything manually
Most of my old dos programming books have instructions on how to read and write the MSdos disk format directly.
If you did anything 32 bit the general idea was to disable MSdos entirely and getting back to 16 bit was *ugly*
When your apps are doing that many things manually it becomes a limmiting factor and we saw this when the disk formats became too big for the orignal structure and they came up with ugly hacks to extend it. It's also a bit twisted when any app can corrupt the filesystem. 1000 places for possible bugs instead of 1 (the OS).
Still.. it had it's fun times and a part of me will miss programming for it.
Actually one of my office mates boutht that shirt for herself.
So yeah I've seen women wear it.
Personally I'd wire his t1 and phone lines into the main volatage and bridge the transformer...
Unfortunatly that won't do much good since he will just go back to dialup or cable and colocate his servers somewhere.
No need .. if everyone were to use a compartmentalised hull where each compartment could be sealed from the others you would have something completly unsinkable.
It would even lower costs elsewhere since lifebots would be rendered obsolete and you would only need just enough for your boat to look stylish.
No good.. Ralsky uses a constantly rotating set of ISPs to send the original mail to insecure mail servers.
Intermediate domains are also hosted on dialup.
His main site hosting locations are also disposable and that's something I tried and failed to explain to one of my previous employers who thought he would get rich working with Ralsky.I was proved right 2 months after I quit when Group Telecom terminated his fiber optic line. But hey hes got an endless string of idiots who he convinces will get rich working with him.
For Ralsky everything is disposable right down to his email address and cell phone.
It's not as if he doesn't know how to filter.. and as somone who worked for one of his many previous ISPs (quit over ralsky) I can tell you he has a pretty good yet souless tech.
"Hey... linus refused to change the behaviour of kill -9 -1 also"
I don't see how that's revelevent at all. Kill -9 -1 is not a security bug and there are many instances whre kill -somethingelse -1 is quite reasonable.
If you type that it's your own problem and Unix will happily shoot the gun exactly where you aimed it..
An attacker would need root access to do that and if an attacker has root there are much worse things (s)he can do to your system than shut off all it's processes..
The words "cheap Japanese crap" was more a result of the quality rather than price They fixed that and now look where they are.
I don't see why anyone needs to distance themselves from this at all.
I predict they will use their backups and repoint the URL to another location.
It's not as if the debian project didn't have the domain properly setup with 3 diffrent nameservers in 3 completely different locations.
They may even have a working mirror...
Because the old system had 3 diffrent parsers each with their own bugs and it had become a maintainance nightmare.
Making new configurators is simple with the new system and I'm sure there will be gtk/whatever else configurators available.
The tickets are also free if you book in advance.. I think their only purpose is to make you register so they know how many people will arrive.
"I signed up but didn't get the tickets yet" also worked last time I had seen it tried.
He *never* says "screw the userland apps". Modules yes.. system utils yes.. general apps NO.
In fact, you can still run your old a.out apps from 5 years ago provided you have the right libraries installed.