If you have done testing and produced reproduce-able, peer-reviewed papers on the subject I definitely would love to see them. Cause so far it seems like the GMO debate is a lot like the vaccination debate. Not based on great science.
That's such a remarkably lame, albeit common, fallback position. It reminds me of corporate lawyers bullying private individuals who can't afford the legal costs required to defend themselves. The, "Show me peer reviewed papers" argument is on the one hand perfectly reasonable, but on the other, it allows people to ignore their common sense and continue to participate in comfortable but highly dubious activities because nobody has, A) Gone to the huge effort of performing a test, B) Convinced other groups to perform the same test for verification and, C) Has the funds and friends in media to promote and widely disseminate the results of that test, particularly if the results run counter to a corporate bottom line.
And even then, all it takes is a half-wit Slashdotter to hold up one random (and very often invalid) nitpick to discard the entire process so that he can continue with said comfortable but dubious activity in peace. -All while pretending to hold science and innate human curiosity in high regard when really all he desires is to go back to sleep. I don't know which type you are, but the pathetic & cowardly version of "Show me your papers" is shows up with regularity around these parts.
However, in this case, despite the massive government and corporate resistance to testing, there has indeed been some telling science done.
Here's an example, not just of the science, but of the consequences of going against the machine.
But hey, why not perform your own test? You're not an invalid, (I'm assuming), and even an invalid can make cookies.
Here's what I did: Bake batches of cookies and muffins, two batches each. Make half with GM margarine and half with real butter made from happy cows. Then consume a few bites of each and observe how they make you feel. I didn't do this double blinded; just single blinded and anyway, I tend to trust my senses because I've found they work rather well. I hear a noise and generally, my ears tell me where the noise came from. I see a flash and I know something flashed. And when I feel my throat burn, I know I've eaten something bad. -And a burning and closing throat was the first indicator which separated the two apparently identical sets of muffins. It's interesting that the various subjects I put treated to my test baked goods responded similarly.
I should add that I think it's a damned falsehood fed to us by the authorities of the world that we should ignore our senses and the obvious.
But maybe that's just me. Here's some further reading on the subject in case you are interested.
WTF!!! Do you realize that the "modified" DNA from GM food is not directly absorbed by your body, but broken into simpler molecules and then assimilated? That the proteins coded by extra genes are broken down into amino acids before being absorbed into the body?
Do you realize that you are quoting the candy-coated TV science version of reality? Things are a great deal more complicated than that.
Think: Is there no means at all you can grasp by which DNA contained in an ingested cell might be transferred to cells within your digestive tract and beyond? Hint: Why is it encouraged that we eat yogurt after taking a course of antibiotics?
Furthermore, you seem to think that it's wrong to use a gee from a mouse it in anything but a mouse. Well, it's silly. Many organisms do similar things with genes that are vastly different. Some functionally equivalent proteins are only 20% homological between e.g. people and cockroaches. Finally, we've been genetically modifying our crops for thousands of years via crossbreeding, hybrids, chemically induced mutations, and radiation induced mutations. Genetic engineering only gives us much better precision and diminishes the possibility of accidentally introducing unwanted traits.
You are being naive. Just because your science fiction dreams make sense on paper does not mean that they are executed accordingly in reality where there is huge profit to be had, both financially and psychologically, in making the general population sick and stupid. In a Star Trek story, the happy reader can trust the governing bodies of the great and glorious planet Earth. In reality, you are a dreaming child if you think those people aren't trying to harm you.
Your DNA is a far, far more complex thing than you understand. The junk DNA in our cells is trying like mad right now to reassemble into its original shape. This is turning on all kinds of new functions and levels of awareness. The slavemasters of the world want to prevent this, and are attempting to do so through the deliberate manipulation of our food supply. Don't try to apply standard reasoning or your child science to this concept. Those things were provided to you specifically to keep you blind and stupid. You need to look for new answers. They are there, but an enormous amount of programming has been inserted into the world in order to stop you cold from proceeding along any avenue of investigation of any true value.
Really, the organic / anti-GMO clowns are even more paranoid than the anti-nuclear clowns. There is no great conspiracy to poison you. Monsanto is not the only agricultural company in the world. GMOs will not kill you. There is no credible peer reviewed science to suggest that GM food is harmful in any way. GM crops reduce pesticide use, which is good. Go to a psychiatrist.
The sad part isn't that you truly believe yourself. -The sad part is that I used to BE you, and it's embarrassing to recall. Essentially, I already know all of your arguments and I've been fed and have studied all of your data, whereas you know next to nothing of mine. I've done a vast amount of research and thinking in areas which I suspect you aren't brave enough to even consider researching. How could you? Your peers would laugh at you, and most people are simply not strong enough to withstand even that low-level trifle of a control mechanism. I would estimate that I have absorbed roughly -at the very least- double what you know about the world. I have also worked on those automatic parts of myself which would otherwise prevent me from thinking outside the lines, as it were, whereas most people don't even know where those lines begin and end let alone how to circumvent them. So given this, which of us do you think is better equipped to judge anything?
Those who advocate organic-only farming and free range chickens and all that are essentially saying that the poor should go back to eating gruel and potatoes.
Hardly. I'm not the one who initiated economic/class warfare upon the populace. I'm not the one limiting education and introducing poisons and stupid-making technologies and media into the psychological atmosphere in order to create slaves. And anyway, the condition of poverty and ignorance shouldn't be used as an argument for the continuance of the very systems which created poverty and ignorance in the first place.
Further, I don't have a lot of money. In fact, I live quite deliberately well below the poverty line. But I collect knowledge rigorously, without fear-bias, and I've got the courage and willingness to use that knowledge. The FACT of the matter is that if you are smart, you can live like a prince without traditional wealth. I advocate knowledge and the exploration of the world and the building of personal strength of spirit. As a result, I'm more nimble and more healthy and a great deal stronger and happier than nearly everybody I've met who cleaves to the classic systems.
But you're partly right. The truth of the matter is that most people are going to get munched. The system is set up to eat whole populations and very few are going to survive. And frankly, as you can see from the kind of conversations which go on around here, most people don't WANT to avoid getting munched. So let them die. That's their choice. All I'm doing is pointing out how those with the desire and the will can step across the bridge.
Ouch. I crossed a couple of lines in my previous post and I owe you an apology.
Sorry! My understanding of the problems regarding carbon dating was broken in a couple of spots, and this back & forth with you brought that ignorance into the light. I felt like an idiot about ten minutes after posting the above and it took me several days to come back here and own up to the fact. LAME!
Basically, while the relativity issue among artifacts being dated does lead to some inaccuracies, the really big problem in Carbon dating lies in the magnetic shifts in the Earth's field and the effects this has upon Carbon 14 quantities created in the atmosphere. This has the power to throw off the dating by a huge amount.
Cheers, and sorry once again for being an over-zealous ass. You're still wrong in your main point, but I wasn't entirely right nor was I playing fair. I allowed emotion to get the better of me.
Do keep at it. You're clearly a thinker, and there are too few of those around here. You just need better intel.
Intelligence and individuality are threatening to the authorities. There's a reason the intellectuals and truth-tellers are among the first to be executed in a fascist state.
So it sounds like you really don't have anything to fear. Except being swept away along with the troglodytes.
If you wanted to make good use of your skills, how about getting a real job and working for a living like the rest of us instead of peddling pot or whatever got you busted? You broke the law and suffered the consequences, you have no right to complain.
It'll be interesting to hear you change your tune when you are placed in an internment camp. They're just going for the low-hanging fruit at the moment, but your turn will come if they don't kill you off in some other manner first.
Nobody is safe from slavery. That's why we had an economic crash; to shunt wealth up the ladder and create a legion of homeless and poverty-stricken slaves. You think you're safe? It can all vanish in a puff, and when it's your turn, you will remember these words.
So how many times in that 4 years did you have to pay for rent, food, clothes, medical care, dental care, etc.? I think if you take all that into account, it far exceeds minimum wage. A good friend of mine spent 10 years in prison and commented shortly after his release that his standard of living was higher while inside.
You are arguing in favor of Slavery. And that's not the problem. The problem is that you accept this happily. That's the problem.
And when looked at in microcosm, your brand of asshattery does make a sick kind of sense. But only fools and retards look at parts of the system out of context and draw conclusions from that point. The system as a whole was engineered so that populations will accept such insane ideas as rational.
Poverty is the reason for most so-called criminals being in prison, and Poverty is the default position for most people today because it is enforced through deliberate economic warfare and psychopathic deeds performed in government and banking. The end result is a means of having interment camps at arms length without having to take direct responsibility for putting them there.
There's a reason the U.S.A. has the highest rate of incarceration per capita in the industrialized world.
Sure, but also keep in mind that products are designed to have a short life-span before requiring replacement.
People remember negative experiences and on the next go-round, they'll bloody-well think twice about buying another lap-top from the company which gave them a bad experience. Pavlovian responses work that way. I can think of several companies I will never buy from again, and have indeed exercised that option. I can also think of several companies whose customer service has won a great deal of loyalty from me.
Though, these days I'd rather buy used off eBay than get something new. There's already too much crap being manufactured. I like to think that I'm contributing to the downfall of our current economic system by building, repairing and re-using goods, working on barter and generally refusing to borrow money.
Ugh! So you'd like to see the prison system turn into a for-profit venture, would you?
Others think like you do, and those systems quickly become corrupted. That is, when it becomes profitable to keep prisoners, prisoners are found regardless of any laws having or having not been broken. As somebody else noted, real criminals don't have skills, so suddenly skilled workers, (like you?) become coveted commodities. And now that everything is a crime, you can be legally shunted off to the slave mill on a whim.
Think it won't happen? It already is happening. It'll be bitter justice when it happens to you. When an economy crashes and lunatics are in charge, nobody is safe, so don't you dare feel smug.
Hm. I only buy food from farmers I trust, and I avoid GM foods like the plague. I'll happily pay more for organic and grass-fed. The farmers I know who use sensible tactics are very well-educated and scientifically aware people; there's a lot of very new knowledge available. I actually attended a lecture just on the subject of soil and the various micro-organisms living in it and the complimentary/interdependent roles played by such. One of the speakers presented state of the art biological science in fungus research which pretty much blew my mind; apparently there is a type of fungus which has a long-standing evolutionary relationship with certain plants; when it infects those crops, yields are increased by as much as 40%, and this knowledge is only a few years old and expanding at a furious pace. We live in pretty exciting times, but one has to have the time/energy/will to seek and implement the knowledge available.
In any case, I don't see any family farms declaring bankruptcy around here, but it takes local farm markets supported by educated populations to make that possible. On the other hand, I HAVE seen entire revenue streams move away from large distribution centers to smaller scale community-based distribution. I realize it's not like that in many places, but in those places where it is, it seems to work with increasing efficiency and success.
Also. . , I've seen enough science and done my own tests re GM foods to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are causing harm. Morgellon's Disease, I suspect, may be related to GMO's and the effects they have upon human DNA.
Sadly, the world has been set up to starve and live on poisoned food. An ugly state of affairs, no doubt, but one I choose not to participate in the experience of if I can avoid it personally!
The "batshit crazy" part comes when Fomenko essentially claims that there is a great conspiracy theory, starting from 16th century onward, to edit and falsify historical documents, dispose of any "inconvenient" data, and disseminate forgeries, to create the picture of history as we commonly know it - because practically no surviving documents or artefacts support his theories. The magnitude of that theory is astounding - it spans the ruling elites and academics of the entire globe, who were all perfectly aware of what they were doing, and why.
Oh, come on. You're over-exaggerating. I really don't see that such a thing requires a deliberate conspiracy. I mean, you are arguing in favor of orthodox historical accuracy based on the momentum of academic consensus, which if wrong, doesn't make you a secret-society mustache-twirling villain. You're just acting on the mentality that the status quo is without flaw and must stand. Herd thinking, which is only compounded when combined with hard won scholarly degrees and income tied to teaching positions. Rationality in the field of re-examining the status quo becomes a very rare bird with such forces in place, and you know it. But that doesn't make it a deliberate conspiracy. -There are numerous similar forces which can corrupt a knowledge structure without the need for a grand conspiracy, (which I don't see Fomenko actually declaring. That seems to be a charge leveled at him by his detractors in an effort to make him sound crazy and thus easier to ignore). There need be nothing more than the same forces acting in previous ages to achieve the same perpetuation of a series of false ideas. ..
In the seventeenth century, a Jesuit Father, Jean Hardouin, uncovered a fraud wherein locals were creating ancient Greek and Roman coins and medals and burying them about the countryside to "fill in the gaps" of history as well as make money by selling such "finds." In 1639, a certain Jacques de Bie published The Families of France, Illustrated by the Monuments of Ancient and Modern Medals, which, according to Anatole de Montaiglon contained more "invented medals than real ones."219 Fulcanelli goes on to cite more instances in which the possibility - probability - that our history has been largely fabricated looms as an ever-growing specter of confusion. [...]
As it happens, there are some eminent experts in the present day who have smelled the rat and who propose the exact same thing that Fulcanelli has suggested. When we investigate the matter, we discover that the chronology of ancient and medieval history in its present form was created and completed to a considerable extent in a series of works during the 16th and 18th centuries, beginning with J. Scaliger (1540-1609), the "founder of modern chronological science." and D. Petavius (1583-1652). Chronology is what tells us how much time has elapsed between some historical event and the present. To determine real chronology, one must be able to translate the data in the ancient documents into the terminology and units of modern time reckoning. Many historical conclusions and interpretations depend upon what dates we ascribe to the events in a given ancient document.
The accepted traditional chronology of ancient and medieval world rests on a foundation of quicksand. For example, between different versions of the dating of such an important event as the foundation of Rome, there exists a divergence of 500 years. What is more, falsification of numbers was carried out down even to contemporary history. Alexander Polyhistor took the first steps towards filling up the five hundred years, which were wanting to bring the destruction of Troy and the origin of Rome into the chronological connection. But, was he helping, or further confusing the matter? As it happens, according to another chronology, Troy had fallen at the same time as the foundation of Rome, and not 500 years before it.
Fomenko's claim go far further than just "history is screwed up". He constructs his own, where e.g. Jesus was a Byzantine emperor.
So what?
Reconstructing history happens automatically when pulling apart the broken version. If Event X didn't happen as described, then you must have some reason for thinking so. The discovery of a faulty conclusion necessitates the postulation of one which the researcher deems more accurate. Having not read Fomenko's books, I can't judge the veracity of his work, but I don't see why Jesus being a Byzantine ruler is any less plausible than his being a carpenter. And why not both? When you get a huge following, you are automatically a leader. I'm really not seeing the "batshit crazy" here. Is he crazy because he doesn't think that, "Christ died for our sins"? I always thought that church believers were the foolish ones, not those who question the word of the bible.
I should also add that carbon dating is indeed faulty. Sadly, carbon dating is a crap shoot, and the people who employ it know this fact well. I explain briefly why this is in my previous response, which you seem not to have read (??). Basically, radiological dating makes certain broad and generally insupportable assumptions about the levels of atmospheric carbon at the time of death of the object being dated. That is, to use Carbon dating to find out the age of an object, you need to first know the age of the object and have an accurate picture of what carbon levels were like in the area of the find at that time. It's not just a logical "Catch 22"; it's even worse, and it pretty much invalidates what might otherwise be a useful tool. And that's just one issue with the system. -So what researchers do is refer to already accepted dates of previously dated materials as benchmarks, and thus like Egyptology, they just plug new finds into the existing time line. The fact that the original seeds of information are off means the whole dating system is off. It's a really interesting problem but again, it's one which people like to ignore because it throws the entirety of history into chaos. People would rather have an ordered illusion than a disordered reality.
Kasparov is batshit-crazy. For one thing, he is an ardent and outspoken supporter of Fomenko's "New Chronology" - go ahead, read what's at that link, and tell me if a sane person can believe this.
Um, the conventional understanding of human history IS completely screwed up. But to know that, you'd actually have to invest some time researching the issue. -One of the biggest problems is that during many formative periods, historians were hopelessly inured with their religious faiths and liberally used the method of, "If the puzzle piece doesn't fit, just use a hammer". Egyptology, for example, is a total mess of single events told over and over to fluff out long periods, along with the outright manufacture of entire swaths of data to make Christians and Jews happy.
Also, radiological dating is indeed filled with flaws. That's not crazy at all. To think that atmospheric carbon distribution has always been constant is idiotic. While the masses are generally too ignorant to understand this, technicians working in carbon dating labs are not and they have to make approximate guesses at what local carbon levels were like at the time of death in the object or plant they are trying to date. Any ten-year old should be able to spot the flaw in that logic.
Seriously, batshit crazy isn't thinking there's something screwed up with textbook history. Batshit crazy is pretending that the Sphinx was never rained on.
As a customer one might prefer a flat-rate unlimited deal; but it's pretty well impossible to say they are ripping you off if they charge you more when you use more.
It's not impossible at all; not when you signed up on one plan only to have the rules change after it has become a cornerstone of your business and personal life. Especially when Bell's actual bandwidth costs are dropping due to infrastructure expansion and improvements in the technology upon which switching speeds are based. I don't know how you define the term, "Rip Off", but to me a price gouge certainly fits the mold.
DSL is a monopoly market in Canada, and the CRTC is falling down on the job. It's supposed to protect tax payers, not bow to the mega-corps. Canada is sliding.
That a bunch of insane attention whores claim that it's happening doesn't mean that it is.
That you don't know what you are talking about doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
Only the ignorant denounce without knowing, and only cowards and the supremely lazy avoid doing the research. -And yes, it's SUPREME laziness when it happens to be perhaps the most fascinating and important subject ever to touch the human race. Real Aliens, for goodness sake!
Geeks love their sci-fi, but when it comes to the greatest show on earth, Actual Reality, they stuff their heads into the sand.
Think of all those stories you've enjoyed where the whole of society has been programmed into zombies of one kind or another, (either brain eaters or glassy-eyed law-abiding citizens), and the hero is the one kid who happens to see that something is wrong and then reacts accordingly. Didn't you think somewhat smugly that, "If I were in that story, then I'd certainly be like the hero and defy the zombie paradigm. I wouldn't be fooled!"
Except when push comes to shove, most people are just cowardly zombies. Nobodies and villains. Pathetic livestock so afraid of being laughed at that they never once dare to even read "taboo" material. Maybe that's why they love their TV so much; it's easier to live in a dream of one's heroics rather than face up to the fact that they are just lazy, dim-witted cowards who can easily be manipulated with basic social engineering.
I'd be very happy if there was nothing wrong; if it turned out upon examination that it was all a big crock of shit. But that's simply not the case. Anybody who is courageous enough to defy the herd and research the subject fully will come to the same conclusion; they're here, they have been for a long time, and it's not a good thing.
lol, if you think I'm gonna read all of that you must be seriously deluded. Oh wait, you are!
Not deluded. I pretty much knew I was spending my time on a retarded machine person, but I gave in to the compulsion to fulfill a perceived obligation. That is, you asked some questions and I answered them to the best of my ability in the moment.
But you clearly don't actually want to know anything beyond your strictly limited operating parameters. It's funny how often those who need it most, resist knowledge with the greatest vigor.
How is this claim about UFOs/aliens any different, reality-wise, than the millions of people around teh world who actually believe that a Jew thousands of years ago raised himself from the dead, or that Moses made the sea split so he could travel across it, or that Jacob wrestled with an angel?
Well, one is happening all the time right now, and the other is a two-thousand year old piece of propaganda used to manipulate the masses.
-Further, one explains the other; those who have properly researched the subject also recognize that there is a very distinct possibility that the whole Christ mythos was generated by aliens in the first place precisely to put the world where it is today. Divide, conquer, set up and knock down. The whole 'apocalypse' thing is wonderfully useful to sculpt awareness. All some asshole alien has to do is show up in a glowing halo and the world is easy pickings.
Why don't people research this stuff? There is SO much excellent information out there, and most people around here like to read. I wish people wouldn't judge until they read the source material to know they are talking about. For starters, read Richard Dolan.
Though, it's always possible that this Russian may be another, "Fake Moon Landing"; stand up, make a claim, and then be proven certifiably crazy so as to deep-six the whole subject for the on-the-fencers. It's very sad how social engineering works so damned well. When Walmart was deciding where to build, a LOT of people in my town signed a petition to try to persuade them to build the monstrosity on our fine pastures. Not to send them away, but to bring them here!
The sad fact of the matter is that most people are ignorant livestock too cowardly to do anything about the fact. Like exercising a bit of independence and exploring taboo subjects in earnest. Most just don't have the gonads for that kind of thing.
OK, so in other words we don't know shit, some nutjobs just agree to speculate on shit they know nothing about without any way to test/verify them, and nothing in your previous post can even qualify as things we know. Furthermore you seem to accept reports of alien abductions as more than a psychological phenomena whereas even though the good faith of the people who report them is hard to doubt there's no physical evidence for their claims and everything seems to indicate that people who report abductions do so as a result of being suggested so by therapists.
Well, there are some episodes of physical evidence, (scars, wounds, odd objects implanted in the body, spontaneous bleeding which upon medical examination reveals mysterious surgeries, etc). But for the most part this sort of thing tends to get sidelined and ignored, (probably because it is too upsetting for most people to consider, and so it is deleted from awareness). In any case, many alien abductions occur on a level of reality which doesn't jibe easily with our senses; soul extraction and re-implantation in a time-locked state is reported to be one common means, thus physical evidence wouldn't even be part of the equation in such circumstances, though the extreme weirdness of interactions with 4th Density can (and does) result in all manner of observations.
But in terms of actual observations, we have animal mutilations to look at, which while the tightly wound fellows over at Skeptic's Dictionary do their pathetic best to explain away through the most cherry-picked and blind "logic", remain. UFOs are another huge, huge piece of evidence which occurs daily. I strongly recommend reading Richard Dolan's work on the subject; he went through mountains of documents using the FOIA and compiled a list of thousands of reported sightings. He sifted through those and only took from them multiple-witness sightings where the witnesses were either police and emergency workers, military, and pilots, (or a combination of such), all of whom were required to fill out paper work. Even sifting out everything else, Dolan recorded hundreds of such events, and created a very readable history of UFOs and the government official response from the 1940s to the 1980s in two volumes. The amount of official information on record is just plain overwhelming, but the truly amazing thing is that while there is so much information regarding UFOs, people simply don't bother to take the time to learn about it. Most people I mention Dolan to will in nearly every case quickly try to judge the books sight-unseen, then do anything upon anything to avoid reading such a massively powerful resource. "I don't have time." "It's all garbage anyway." "I'm already right, so why do I need more proof of that?"
Ha ha! I wonder what you will do? There is SO much great information out there of this nature that anybody who really takes the time to research it all will come away with their entire world-view shifted away from the useless orthodox view most people currently have as a result of television and media. -I've done the work to read and familiarize myself with much of that work and similar, so I do actually know what I am talking about, and yet people who have done virtually no research whatsoever have the gall to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, using the most stale and broken logical arguments one can imagine. (You used one in the very next sentence). It's the equivalent of an ignorant child telling trained carpenter or mechanic how to install a door frame or fix a car. It's silly beyond words, and yet it happens all the time. People judging what they simply have next to no knowledge about.
Besides, if you believe alien do abductions but that they'd destroy us if they met us, why aren't they in the process of genociding us?
Sorry, but I thought you re-read my post. There was a lot of information in it. If you had done so and had absorbed what I said, you wouldn't ask such
First of all, in one sense, nobody truly "knows" anything, so the definition is worth pinning down. What I mean is that there is a large pool of information available and that within it certain ideas repeat and support one another or cancel out other ideas in such a manner as to leave behind a fairly robust "working copy" of alien reality. -This comes about to close to knowing as we can logically get without boarding an alien ship in person, (which has been done many times in the form of abductions), but for my part I need to work largely from reports and research combined with some semi-related experience in energy and spirit work.
With this in mind, I would direct you to my previous post on this subject, where I pointed out several things I consider to be "known".
But you did take the time to "lol" so I suspect you're not really willing to honestly think and research this subject but are rather inclined to ego-driven mechanical response behavior. I may be wrong, but it would certainly be the most common response. Just give me some indicator so I'll know whether to bother spending any more energy on you. The number of two-trick gad-flies around here is depressing!
Whoa. I didn't mean to upset or offend you. You don't need to take such a tone, but if you want to play that way, I can certainly respond in kind. I'd much rather not, and so I'll take another run at civil discussion. Learning and ego should play in separate rooms. You are not your knowledge structure.
Fine, well if you'll go with the constance of human behaviour, how about you stop with the cherry-picking of historical events? The Chinese back in the 14th century would go all around the world as they knew it in peace, even in places where they could have easily dominated and conquered such as Africa. To use Colombus' example as if it was what always happens when civilisations meet is just bullshit. Maybe that's far from obvious if your knowledge of history is centred on the Americas.
This is a fair point. The only answer I can offer is that based on the kind of interactions we've observed, it is fair to assume that there are two approaches to life; Prime Directive style and Exploitation. Service To Others, and Service To Self. As we have learned, these polar opposites underpins everything in existence. A large proportion of genuine crop circles appear to be created by the former, while abductions and mutilations appear to be actions taken by the latter. Clearly, we needn't worry about civilizations which have advanced to a point of respect for life while we certainly do need to concern ourselves with those which have embraced fear and hunger as the primary driving forces of their civilization.
Furthermore, while basic human behaviour remains the same, civilisation and society progresses and advances morally, which is why people don't consider it acceptable anymore to make slaves, only a century or two after it was abolished.
I disagree. I think it is simply that the definitions have changed and people have found new ways to lie to themselves as the old lies wore out. Because clearly a lot of people DO think that slavery is acceptable, or there would be no factories in 3rd world countries exploiting whole populations for the benefit of rich nations. Back in the days of classic bare-foot and chains slavery, I'm sure people were just as capable of lying to themselves in such a way which removed any moral responsibility from slave ownership. Morality has never changed. It is a personal choice; you either abuse people or you do not. The fact of the matter is that there is more slavery today than there ever was before, simply by virtue of the expanded population base of the planet.
And obviously the elephant in the room, aliens are not humans. See my comment about making the mistake of projecting the familiar onto the utterly unknown.
Your point about projection is true, except that we do in fact know a great deal about aliens. But that knowledge is not spread out uniformly across the population. It exists in pockets and there is an extremely large amount of disinformation. But in general, if you really want to know, you can find out. It takes a lot of work, though, and the willingness to toss out false info as you contrast and compare.
As for your points, well, they're kind of bullshit. What civilisation do cattle have? None. As such they're quite boring. They have nothing to teach us except for what biology teaches us, as they don't transmit knowledge from generation to generation. Nothing they've done is worth studying really. Whereas civilisations, all civilisations, are worthy of being thoroughly studied. Again, you seem to have (dis)missed my point about us being more interesting left intact than "as a resource". Also you clearly overestimate our interest "as a resource". What's so good about our resources? Water? We don't even have that much non-salty water, whereas the universe is full of it. Oxygen? Again, it's not even like there's so much oxygen here that is not readily available in other places or in other ways. Minerals? Once again, there's n
You offer some of the clearer thinking I've seen on this subject around here, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time by adding these thoughts. . .
1. In any culture, no matter how advanced the top echelon is, there always seems to be a spectrum of awareness within that culture. That is to say, we live in a culture which produced some very fine minds, (Gandhi etc., as you pointed out), while at the same time we have dangerously retarded idiots in evidence, who as it happens, hold positions of vast power in our world. "As above, so below." For souls to grow, they need room to thrash around and make mistakes and generally be ugly adolescents. I would assume that souls growing in the medium of an advanced alien culture would, at least in some cases, work in the same manner. Alien Gandhis must certainly exist, but by the same stroke, so must Alien Bushes. Spiritual advancement takes work no matter where and who you are, and so long as the choice remains possible, there will be lazy souls which have chosen the road of fear and hunger thinking. Presumably some of those will have access to ray guns, flying saucers and legions of dangerously stupid minions. Just because people happen to be born in an enlightened age does not guarantee that (most) of them won't laugh at bathroom humor and get drunk at football matches.
2. I am of the opinion that "Aliens" and UFOs are not of the "nuts and bolts" variety. Everything; history, observational evidence, everything points to hyper-dimensionality. One way to think of it. . . Your brain existed a minute ago, and it also exists now. Imagine if you could take readings of reality from both points at the same 'time' and combine them; not as a set of working memories, but rather a current, on-going awareness. Humans don't have the wetware to do this, to see past the illusion of 'time'. But aliens, by many accounts, do have this ability, and their entire perception of reality and their modes of moving through it are based on this. We can't even see them for the most part.
3. When dealing with such enormously advanced beings, we would quite literally occupy the same position on the food chain as dumb livestock; a resource with value as a resource. -Because one thing holds true at these lower levels of reality, (including the level at which such aliens exist); Life feeds on life. We are not the top of the food chain by a long shot, and aliens have as much desire to reach out and communicate with us as human farmers desire to establish meaningful relations with their cattle and corn.
Slashdot Mirror
Animals have brains, right?
If quantum entanglement doesn't turn out to be a vital component in neurological science, then I'll be a fish on a loaf.
-FL
If you have done testing and produced reproduce-able, peer-reviewed papers on the subject I definitely would love to see them. Cause so far it seems like the GMO debate is a lot like the vaccination debate. Not based on great science.
That's such a remarkably lame, albeit common, fallback position. It reminds me of corporate lawyers bullying private individuals who can't afford the legal costs required to defend themselves. The, "Show me peer reviewed papers" argument is on the one hand perfectly reasonable, but on the other, it allows people to ignore their common sense and continue to participate in comfortable but highly dubious activities because nobody has, A) Gone to the huge effort of performing a test, B) Convinced other groups to perform the same test for verification and, C) Has the funds and friends in media to promote and widely disseminate the results of that test, particularly if the results run counter to a corporate bottom line.
And even then, all it takes is a half-wit Slashdotter to hold up one random (and very often invalid) nitpick to discard the entire process so that he can continue with said comfortable but dubious activity in peace. -All while pretending to hold science and innate human curiosity in high regard when really all he desires is to go back to sleep. I don't know which type you are, but the pathetic & cowardly version of "Show me your papers" is shows up with regularity around these parts.
However, in this case, despite the massive government and corporate resistance to testing, there has indeed been some telling science done.
Here's an example, not just of the science, but of the consequences of going against the machine.
But hey, why not perform your own test? You're not an invalid, (I'm assuming), and even an invalid can make cookies.
Here's what I did: Bake batches of cookies and muffins, two batches each. Make half with GM margarine and half with real butter made from happy cows. Then consume a few bites of each and observe how they make you feel. I didn't do this double blinded; just single blinded and anyway, I tend to trust my senses because I've found they work rather well. I hear a noise and generally, my ears tell me where the noise came from. I see a flash and I know something flashed. And when I feel my throat burn, I know I've eaten something bad. -And a burning and closing throat was the first indicator which separated the two apparently identical sets of muffins. It's interesting that the various subjects I put treated to my test baked goods responded similarly.
I should add that I think it's a damned falsehood fed to us by the authorities of the world that we should ignore our senses and the obvious.
But maybe that's just me. Here's some further reading on the subject in case you are interested.
-FL
WTF!!! Do you realize that the "modified" DNA from GM food is not directly absorbed by your body, but broken into simpler molecules and then assimilated? That the proteins coded by extra genes are broken down into amino acids before being absorbed into the body?
Do you realize that you are quoting the candy-coated TV science version of reality? Things are a great deal more complicated than that.
Think: Is there no means at all you can grasp by which DNA contained in an ingested cell might be transferred to cells within your digestive tract and beyond? Hint: Why is it encouraged that we eat yogurt after taking a course of antibiotics?
Furthermore, you seem to think that it's wrong to use a gee from a mouse it in anything but a mouse. Well, it's silly. Many organisms do similar things with genes that are vastly different. Some functionally equivalent proteins are only 20% homological between e.g. people and cockroaches. Finally, we've been genetically modifying our crops for thousands of years via crossbreeding, hybrids, chemically induced mutations, and radiation induced mutations. Genetic engineering only gives us much better precision and diminishes the possibility of accidentally introducing unwanted traits.
You are being naive. Just because your science fiction dreams make sense on paper does not mean that they are executed accordingly in reality where there is huge profit to be had, both financially and psychologically, in making the general population sick and stupid. In a Star Trek story, the happy reader can trust the governing bodies of the great and glorious planet Earth. In reality, you are a dreaming child if you think those people aren't trying to harm you.
Your DNA is a far, far more complex thing than you understand. The junk DNA in our cells is trying like mad right now to reassemble into its original shape. This is turning on all kinds of new functions and levels of awareness. The slavemasters of the world want to prevent this, and are attempting to do so through the deliberate manipulation of our food supply. Don't try to apply standard reasoning or your child science to this concept. Those things were provided to you specifically to keep you blind and stupid. You need to look for new answers. They are there, but an enormous amount of programming has been inserted into the world in order to stop you cold from proceeding along any avenue of investigation of any true value.
Really, the organic / anti-GMO clowns are even more paranoid than the anti-nuclear clowns. There is no great conspiracy to poison you. Monsanto is not the only agricultural company in the world. GMOs will not kill you. There is no credible peer reviewed science to suggest that GM food is harmful in any way. GM crops reduce pesticide use, which is good. Go to a psychiatrist.
The sad part isn't that you truly believe yourself. -The sad part is that I used to BE you, and it's embarrassing to recall. Essentially, I already know all of your arguments and I've been fed and have studied all of your data, whereas you know next to nothing of mine. I've done a vast amount of research and thinking in areas which I suspect you aren't brave enough to even consider researching. How could you? Your peers would laugh at you, and most people are simply not strong enough to withstand even that low-level trifle of a control mechanism. I would estimate that I have absorbed roughly -at the very least- double what you know about the world. I have also worked on those automatic parts of myself which would otherwise prevent me from thinking outside the lines, as it were, whereas most people don't even know where those lines begin and end let alone how to circumvent them. So given this, which of us do you think is better equipped to judge anything?
I'll let you ponder that.
-FL
Those who advocate organic-only farming and free range chickens and all that are essentially saying that the poor should go back to eating gruel and potatoes.
Hardly. I'm not the one who initiated economic/class warfare upon the populace. I'm not the one limiting education and introducing poisons and stupid-making technologies and media into the psychological atmosphere in order to create slaves. And anyway, the condition of poverty and ignorance shouldn't be used as an argument for the continuance of the very systems which created poverty and ignorance in the first place.
Further, I don't have a lot of money. In fact, I live quite deliberately well below the poverty line. But I collect knowledge rigorously, without fear-bias, and I've got the courage and willingness to use that knowledge. The FACT of the matter is that if you are smart, you can live like a prince without traditional wealth. I advocate knowledge and the exploration of the world and the building of personal strength of spirit. As a result, I'm more nimble and more healthy and a great deal stronger and happier than nearly everybody I've met who cleaves to the classic systems.
But you're partly right. The truth of the matter is that most people are going to get munched. The system is set up to eat whole populations and very few are going to survive. And frankly, as you can see from the kind of conversations which go on around here, most people don't WANT to avoid getting munched. So let them die. That's their choice. All I'm doing is pointing out how those with the desire and the will can step across the bridge.
-FL
Ouch. I crossed a couple of lines in my previous post and I owe you an apology.
Sorry! My understanding of the problems regarding carbon dating was broken in a couple of spots, and this back & forth with you brought that ignorance into the light. I felt like an idiot about ten minutes after posting the above and it took me several days to come back here and own up to the fact. LAME!
Basically, while the relativity issue among artifacts being dated does lead to some inaccuracies, the really big problem in Carbon dating lies in the magnetic shifts in the Earth's field and the effects this has upon Carbon 14 quantities created in the atmosphere. This has the power to throw off the dating by a huge amount.
Cheers, and sorry once again for being an over-zealous ass. You're still wrong in your main point, but I wasn't entirely right nor was I playing fair. I allowed emotion to get the better of me.
Do keep at it. You're clearly a thinker, and there are too few of those around here. You just need better intel.
-FL
They won't be coming for me any time soon either. (I thought you were serious.)
-FL
Intelligence and individuality are threatening to the authorities. There's a reason the intellectuals and truth-tellers are among the first to be executed in a fascist state.
So it sounds like you really don't have anything to fear. Except being swept away along with the troglodytes.
-FL
If you wanted to make good use of your skills, how about getting a real job and working for a living like the rest of us instead of peddling pot or whatever got you busted?
You broke the law and suffered the consequences, you have no right to complain.
It'll be interesting to hear you change your tune when you are placed in an internment camp. They're just going for the low-hanging fruit at the moment, but your turn will come if they don't kill you off in some other manner first.
Nobody is safe from slavery. That's why we had an economic crash; to shunt wealth up the ladder and create a legion of homeless and poverty-stricken slaves. You think you're safe? It can all vanish in a puff, and when it's your turn, you will remember these words.
-FL
So how many times in that 4 years did you have to pay for rent, food, clothes, medical care, dental care, etc.? I think if you take all that into account, it far exceeds minimum wage. A good friend of mine spent 10 years in prison and commented shortly after his release that his standard of living was higher while inside.
You are arguing in favor of Slavery. And that's not the problem. The problem is that you accept this happily. That's the problem.
And when looked at in microcosm, your brand of asshattery does make a sick kind of sense. But only fools and retards look at parts of the system out of context and draw conclusions from that point. The system as a whole was engineered so that populations will accept such insane ideas as rational.
Poverty is the reason for most so-called criminals being in prison, and Poverty is the default position for most people today because it is enforced through deliberate economic warfare and psychopathic deeds performed in government and banking. The end result is a means of having interment camps at arms length without having to take direct responsibility for putting them there.
There's a reason the U.S.A. has the highest rate of incarceration per capita in the industrialized world.
-FL
Sure, but also keep in mind that products are designed to have a short life-span before requiring replacement.
People remember negative experiences and on the next go-round, they'll bloody-well think twice about buying another lap-top from the company which gave them a bad experience. Pavlovian responses work that way. I can think of several companies I will never buy from again, and have indeed exercised that option. I can also think of several companies whose customer service has won a great deal of loyalty from me.
Though, these days I'd rather buy used off eBay than get something new. There's already too much crap being manufactured. I like to think that I'm contributing to the downfall of our current economic system by building, repairing and re-using goods, working on barter and generally refusing to borrow money.
-FL
Ugh! So you'd like to see the prison system turn into a for-profit venture, would you?
Others think like you do, and those systems quickly become corrupted. That is, when it becomes profitable to keep prisoners, prisoners are found regardless of any laws having or having not been broken. As somebody else noted, real criminals don't have skills, so suddenly skilled workers, (like you?) become coveted commodities. And now that everything is a crime, you can be legally shunted off to the slave mill on a whim.
Think it won't happen? It already is happening. It'll be bitter justice when it happens to you. When an economy crashes and lunatics are in charge, nobody is safe, so don't you dare feel smug.
-FL
"2 : a meaningless word coined by a psychotic"
That's from Merriam-Webster?
I don't know what to say. I'm at a loss for words. Which, come to think of it, is probably a good thing.
-FL
Hm. I only buy food from farmers I trust, and I avoid GM foods like the plague. I'll happily pay more for organic and grass-fed. The farmers I know who use sensible tactics are very well-educated and scientifically aware people; there's a lot of very new knowledge available. I actually attended a lecture just on the subject of soil and the various micro-organisms living in it and the complimentary/interdependent roles played by such. One of the speakers presented state of the art biological science in fungus research which pretty much blew my mind; apparently there is a type of fungus which has a long-standing evolutionary relationship with certain plants; when it infects those crops, yields are increased by as much as 40%, and this knowledge is only a few years old and expanding at a furious pace. We live in pretty exciting times, but one has to have the time/energy/will to seek and implement the knowledge available.
In any case, I don't see any family farms declaring bankruptcy around here, but it takes local farm markets supported by educated populations to make that possible. On the other hand, I HAVE seen entire revenue streams move away from large distribution centers to smaller scale community-based distribution. I realize it's not like that in many places, but in those places where it is, it seems to work with increasing efficiency and success.
Also. . , I've seen enough science and done my own tests re GM foods to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are causing harm. Morgellon's Disease, I suspect, may be related to GMO's and the effects they have upon human DNA.
Sadly, the world has been set up to starve and live on poisoned food. An ugly state of affairs, no doubt, but one I choose not to participate in the experience of if I can avoid it personally!
-FL
The "batshit crazy" part comes when Fomenko essentially claims that there is a great conspiracy theory, starting from 16th century onward, to edit and falsify historical documents, dispose of any "inconvenient" data, and disseminate forgeries, to create the picture of history as we commonly know it - because practically no surviving documents or artefacts support his theories. The magnitude of that theory is astounding - it spans the ruling elites and academics of the entire globe, who were all perfectly aware of what they were doing, and why.
Oh, come on. You're over-exaggerating. I really don't see that such a thing requires a deliberate conspiracy. I mean, you are arguing in favor of orthodox historical accuracy based on the momentum of academic consensus, which if wrong, doesn't make you a secret-society mustache-twirling villain. You're just acting on the mentality that the status quo is without flaw and must stand. Herd thinking, which is only compounded when combined with hard won scholarly degrees and income tied to teaching positions. Rationality in the field of re-examining the status quo becomes a very rare bird with such forces in place, and you know it. But that doesn't make it a deliberate conspiracy. -There are numerous similar forces which can corrupt a knowledge structure without the need for a grand conspiracy, (which I don't see Fomenko actually declaring. That seems to be a charge leveled at him by his detractors in an effort to make him sound crazy and thus easier to ignore). There need be nothing more than the same forces acting in previous ages to achieve the same perpetuation of a series of false ideas. . .
In the seventeenth century, a Jesuit Father, Jean Hardouin, uncovered a fraud wherein locals were creating ancient Greek and Roman coins and medals and burying them about the countryside to "fill in the gaps" of history as well as make money by selling such "finds." In 1639, a certain Jacques de Bie published The Families of France, Illustrated by the Monuments of Ancient and Modern Medals, which, according to Anatole de Montaiglon contained more "invented medals than real ones."219 Fulcanelli goes on to cite more instances in which the possibility - probability - that our history has been largely fabricated looms as an ever-growing specter of confusion. [...]
As it happens, there are some eminent experts in the present day who have smelled the rat and who propose the exact same thing that Fulcanelli has suggested. When we investigate the matter, we discover that the chronology of ancient and medieval history in its present form was created and completed to a considerable extent in a series of works during the 16th and 18th centuries, beginning with J. Scaliger (1540-1609), the "founder of modern chronological science." and D. Petavius (1583-1652). Chronology is what tells us how much time has elapsed between some historical event and the present. To determine real chronology, one must be able to translate the data in the ancient documents into the terminology and units of modern time reckoning. Many historical conclusions and interpretations depend upon what dates we ascribe to the events in a given ancient document.
The accepted traditional chronology of ancient and medieval world rests on a foundation of quicksand. For example, between different versions of the dating of such an important event as the foundation of Rome, there exists a divergence of 500 years. What is more, falsification of numbers was carried out down even to contemporary history. Alexander Polyhistor took the first steps towards filling up the five hundred years, which were wanting to bring the destruction of Troy and the origin of Rome into the chronological connection. But, was he helping, or further confusing the matter? As it happens, according to another chronology, Troy had fallen at the same time as the foundation of Rome, and not 500 years before it.
Fomenko's claim go far further than just "history is screwed up". He constructs his own, where e.g. Jesus was a Byzantine emperor.
So what?
Reconstructing history happens automatically when pulling apart the broken version. If Event X didn't happen as described, then you must have some reason for thinking so. The discovery of a faulty conclusion necessitates the postulation of one which the researcher deems more accurate. Having not read Fomenko's books, I can't judge the veracity of his work, but I don't see why Jesus being a Byzantine ruler is any less plausible than his being a carpenter. And why not both? When you get a huge following, you are automatically a leader. I'm really not seeing the "batshit crazy" here. Is he crazy because he doesn't think that, "Christ died for our sins"? I always thought that church believers were the foolish ones, not those who question the word of the bible.
I should also add that carbon dating is indeed faulty. Sadly, carbon dating is a crap shoot, and the people who employ it know this fact well. I explain briefly why this is in my previous response, which you seem not to have read (??). Basically, radiological dating makes certain broad and generally insupportable assumptions about the levels of atmospheric carbon at the time of death of the object being dated. That is, to use Carbon dating to find out the age of an object, you need to first know the age of the object and have an accurate picture of what carbon levels were like in the area of the find at that time. It's not just a logical "Catch 22"; it's even worse, and it pretty much invalidates what might otherwise be a useful tool. And that's just one issue with the system. -So what researchers do is refer to already accepted dates of previously dated materials as benchmarks, and thus like Egyptology, they just plug new finds into the existing time line. The fact that the original seeds of information are off means the whole dating system is off. It's a really interesting problem but again, it's one which people like to ignore because it throws the entirety of history into chaos. People would rather have an ordered illusion than a disordered reality.
It's pretty pathetic, if you ask me.
-FL
Kasparov is batshit-crazy. For one thing, he is an ardent and outspoken supporter of Fomenko's "New Chronology" - go ahead, read what's at that link, and tell me if a sane person can believe this.
Um, the conventional understanding of human history IS completely screwed up. But to know that, you'd actually have to invest some time researching the issue. -One of the biggest problems is that during many formative periods, historians were hopelessly inured with their religious faiths and liberally used the method of, "If the puzzle piece doesn't fit, just use a hammer". Egyptology, for example, is a total mess of single events told over and over to fluff out long periods, along with the outright manufacture of entire swaths of data to make Christians and Jews happy.
Also, radiological dating is indeed filled with flaws. That's not crazy at all. To think that atmospheric carbon distribution has always been constant is idiotic. While the masses are generally too ignorant to understand this, technicians working in carbon dating labs are not and they have to make approximate guesses at what local carbon levels were like at the time of death in the object or plant they are trying to date. Any ten-year old should be able to spot the flaw in that logic.
Seriously, batshit crazy isn't thinking there's something screwed up with textbook history. Batshit crazy is pretending that the Sphinx was never rained on.
-FL
As a customer one might prefer a flat-rate unlimited deal; but it's pretty well impossible to say they are ripping you off if they charge you more when you use more.
It's not impossible at all; not when you signed up on one plan only to have the rules change after it has become a cornerstone of your business and personal life. Especially when Bell's actual bandwidth costs are dropping due to infrastructure expansion and improvements in the technology upon which switching speeds are based. I don't know how you define the term, "Rip Off", but to me a price gouge certainly fits the mold.
DSL is a monopoly market in Canada, and the CRTC is falling down on the job. It's supposed to protect tax payers, not bow to the mega-corps. Canada is sliding.
-FL
Sigh.
And you were modded down for speaking your mind, offering insights without high emotion, in an amusing manner while staying on-topic.
Such is the world. Full of cowards with moderator privileges.
-FL
That a bunch of insane attention whores claim that it's happening doesn't mean that it is.
That you don't know what you are talking about doesn't mean that it isn't happening.
Only the ignorant denounce without knowing, and only cowards and the supremely lazy avoid doing the research. -And yes, it's SUPREME laziness when it happens to be perhaps the most fascinating and important subject ever to touch the human race. Real Aliens, for goodness sake!
Geeks love their sci-fi, but when it comes to the greatest show on earth, Actual Reality, they stuff their heads into the sand.
Think of all those stories you've enjoyed where the whole of society has been programmed into zombies of one kind or another, (either brain eaters or glassy-eyed law-abiding citizens), and the hero is the one kid who happens to see that something is wrong and then reacts accordingly. Didn't you think somewhat smugly that, "If I were in that story, then I'd certainly be like the hero and defy the zombie paradigm. I wouldn't be fooled!"
Except when push comes to shove, most people are just cowardly zombies. Nobodies and villains. Pathetic livestock so afraid of being laughed at that they never once dare to even read "taboo" material. Maybe that's why they love their TV so much; it's easier to live in a dream of one's heroics rather than face up to the fact that they are just lazy, dim-witted cowards who can easily be manipulated with basic social engineering.
I'd be very happy if there was nothing wrong; if it turned out upon examination that it was all a big crock of shit. But that's simply not the case. Anybody who is courageous enough to defy the herd and research the subject fully will come to the same conclusion; they're here, they have been for a long time, and it's not a good thing.
-FL
lol, if you think I'm gonna read all of that you must be seriously deluded. Oh wait, you are!
Not deluded. I pretty much knew I was spending my time on a retarded machine person, but I gave in to the compulsion to fulfill a perceived obligation. That is, you asked some questions and I answered them to the best of my ability in the moment.
But you clearly don't actually want to know anything beyond your strictly limited operating parameters. It's funny how often those who need it most, resist knowledge with the greatest vigor.
Bye now.
-FL
How is this claim about UFOs/aliens any different, reality-wise, than the millions of people around teh world who actually believe that a Jew thousands of years ago raised himself from the dead, or that Moses made the sea split so he could travel across it, or that Jacob wrestled with an angel?
Well, one is happening all the time right now, and the other is a two-thousand year old piece of propaganda used to manipulate the masses.
-Further, one explains the other; those who have properly researched the subject also recognize that there is a very distinct possibility that the whole Christ mythos was generated by aliens in the first place precisely to put the world where it is today. Divide, conquer, set up and knock down. The whole 'apocalypse' thing is wonderfully useful to sculpt awareness. All some asshole alien has to do is show up in a glowing halo and the world is easy pickings.
Why don't people research this stuff? There is SO much excellent information out there, and most people around here like to read. I wish people wouldn't judge until they read the source material to know they are talking about. For starters, read Richard Dolan.
Though, it's always possible that this Russian may be another, "Fake Moon Landing"; stand up, make a claim, and then be proven certifiably crazy so as to deep-six the whole subject for the on-the-fencers. It's very sad how social engineering works so damned well. When Walmart was deciding where to build, a LOT of people in my town signed a petition to try to persuade them to build the monstrosity on our fine pastures. Not to send them away, but to bring them here!
The sad fact of the matter is that most people are ignorant livestock too cowardly to do anything about the fact. Like exercising a bit of independence and exploring taboo subjects in earnest. Most just don't have the gonads for that kind of thing.
-FL
OK, so in other words we don't know shit, some nutjobs just agree to speculate on shit they know nothing about without any way to test/verify them, and nothing in your previous post can even qualify as things we know. Furthermore you seem to accept reports of alien abductions as more than a psychological phenomena whereas even though the good faith of the people who report them is hard to doubt there's no physical evidence for their claims and everything seems to indicate that people who report abductions do so as a result of being suggested so by therapists.
Well, there are some episodes of physical evidence, (scars, wounds, odd objects implanted in the body, spontaneous bleeding which upon medical examination reveals mysterious surgeries, etc). But for the most part this sort of thing tends to get sidelined and ignored, (probably because it is too upsetting for most people to consider, and so it is deleted from awareness). In any case, many alien abductions occur on a level of reality which doesn't jibe easily with our senses; soul extraction and re-implantation in a time-locked state is reported to be one common means, thus physical evidence wouldn't even be part of the equation in such circumstances, though the extreme weirdness of interactions with 4th Density can (and does) result in all manner of observations.
But in terms of actual observations, we have animal mutilations to look at, which while the tightly wound fellows over at Skeptic's Dictionary do their pathetic best to explain away through the most cherry-picked and blind "logic", remain. UFOs are another huge, huge piece of evidence which occurs daily. I strongly recommend reading Richard Dolan's work on the subject; he went through mountains of documents using the FOIA and compiled a list of thousands of reported sightings. He sifted through those and only took from them multiple-witness sightings where the witnesses were either police and emergency workers, military, and pilots, (or a combination of such), all of whom were required to fill out paper work. Even sifting out everything else, Dolan recorded hundreds of such events, and created a very readable history of UFOs and the government official response from the 1940s to the 1980s in two volumes. The amount of official information on record is just plain overwhelming, but the truly amazing thing is that while there is so much information regarding UFOs, people simply don't bother to take the time to learn about it. Most people I mention Dolan to will in nearly every case quickly try to judge the books sight-unseen, then do anything upon anything to avoid reading such a massively powerful resource. "I don't have time." "It's all garbage anyway." "I'm already right, so why do I need more proof of that?"
Ha ha! I wonder what you will do? There is SO much great information out there of this nature that anybody who really takes the time to research it all will come away with their entire world-view shifted away from the useless orthodox view most people currently have as a result of television and media. -I've done the work to read and familiarize myself with much of that work and similar, so I do actually know what I am talking about, and yet people who have done virtually no research whatsoever have the gall to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, using the most stale and broken logical arguments one can imagine. (You used one in the very next sentence). It's the equivalent of an ignorant child telling trained carpenter or mechanic how to install a door frame or fix a car. It's silly beyond words, and yet it happens all the time. People judging what they simply have next to no knowledge about.
Besides, if you believe alien do abductions but that they'd destroy us if they met us, why aren't they in the process of genociding us?
Sorry, but I thought you re-read my post. There was a lot of information in it. If you had done so and had absorbed what I said, you wouldn't ask such
lol, what??
Tell me a single thing we know.
First of all, in one sense, nobody truly "knows" anything, so the definition is worth pinning down. What I mean is that there is a large pool of information available and that within it certain ideas repeat and support one another or cancel out other ideas in such a manner as to leave behind a fairly robust "working copy" of alien reality. -This comes about to close to knowing as we can logically get without boarding an alien ship in person, (which has been done many times in the form of abductions), but for my part I need to work largely from reports and research combined with some semi-related experience in energy and spirit work.
With this in mind, I would direct you to my previous post on this subject, where I pointed out several things I consider to be "known".
But you did take the time to "lol" so I suspect you're not really willing to honestly think and research this subject but are rather inclined to ego-driven mechanical response behavior. I may be wrong, but it would certainly be the most common response. Just give me some indicator so I'll know whether to bother spending any more energy on you. The number of two-trick gad-flies around here is depressing!
-FL
Whoa. I didn't mean to upset or offend you. You don't need to take such a tone, but if you want to play that way, I can certainly respond in kind. I'd much rather not, and so I'll take another run at civil discussion. Learning and ego should play in separate rooms. You are not your knowledge structure.
Fine, well if you'll go with the constance of human behaviour, how about you stop with the cherry-picking of historical events? The Chinese back in the 14th century would go all around the world as they knew it in peace, even in places where they could have easily dominated and conquered such as Africa. To use Colombus' example as if it was what always happens when civilisations meet is just bullshit. Maybe that's far from obvious if your knowledge of history is centred on the Americas.
This is a fair point. The only answer I can offer is that based on the kind of interactions we've observed, it is fair to assume that there are two approaches to life; Prime Directive style and Exploitation. Service To Others, and Service To Self. As we have learned, these polar opposites underpins everything in existence. A large proportion of genuine crop circles appear to be created by the former, while abductions and mutilations appear to be actions taken by the latter. Clearly, we needn't worry about civilizations which have advanced to a point of respect for life while we certainly do need to concern ourselves with those which have embraced fear and hunger as the primary driving forces of their civilization.
Furthermore, while basic human behaviour remains the same, civilisation and society progresses and advances morally, which is why people don't consider it acceptable anymore to make slaves, only a century or two after it was abolished.
I disagree. I think it is simply that the definitions have changed and people have found new ways to lie to themselves as the old lies wore out. Because clearly a lot of people DO think that slavery is acceptable, or there would be no factories in 3rd world countries exploiting whole populations for the benefit of rich nations. Back in the days of classic bare-foot and chains slavery, I'm sure people were just as capable of lying to themselves in such a way which removed any moral responsibility from slave ownership. Morality has never changed. It is a personal choice; you either abuse people or you do not. The fact of the matter is that there is more slavery today than there ever was before, simply by virtue of the expanded population base of the planet.
And obviously the elephant in the room, aliens are not humans. See my comment about making the mistake of projecting the familiar onto the utterly unknown.
Your point about projection is true, except that we do in fact know a great deal about aliens. But that knowledge is not spread out uniformly across the population. It exists in pockets and there is an extremely large amount of disinformation. But in general, if you really want to know, you can find out. It takes a lot of work, though, and the willingness to toss out false info as you contrast and compare.
As for your points, well, they're kind of bullshit. What civilisation do cattle have? None. As such they're quite boring. They have nothing to teach us except for what biology teaches us, as they don't transmit knowledge from generation to generation. Nothing they've done is worth studying really. Whereas civilisations, all civilisations, are worthy of being thoroughly studied. Again, you seem to have (dis)missed my point about us being more interesting left intact than "as a resource". Also you clearly overestimate our interest "as a resource". What's so good about our resources? Water? We don't even have that much non-salty water, whereas the universe is full of it. Oxygen? Again, it's not even like there's so much oxygen here that is not readily available in other places or in other ways. Minerals? Once again, there's n
You offer some of the clearer thinking I've seen on this subject around here, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time by adding these thoughts. . .
1. In any culture, no matter how advanced the top echelon is, there always seems to be a spectrum of awareness within that culture. That is to say, we live in a culture which produced some very fine minds, (Gandhi etc., as you pointed out), while at the same time we have dangerously retarded idiots in evidence, who as it happens, hold positions of vast power in our world. "As above, so below." For souls to grow, they need room to thrash around and make mistakes and generally be ugly adolescents. I would assume that souls growing in the medium of an advanced alien culture would, at least in some cases, work in the same manner. Alien Gandhis must certainly exist, but by the same stroke, so must Alien Bushes. Spiritual advancement takes work no matter where and who you are, and so long as the choice remains possible, there will be lazy souls which have chosen the road of fear and hunger thinking. Presumably some of those will have access to ray guns, flying saucers and legions of dangerously stupid minions. Just because people happen to be born in an enlightened age does not guarantee that (most) of them won't laugh at bathroom humor and get drunk at football matches.
2. I am of the opinion that "Aliens" and UFOs are not of the "nuts and bolts" variety. Everything; history, observational evidence, everything points to hyper-dimensionality. One way to think of it. . . Your brain existed a minute ago, and it also exists now. Imagine if you could take readings of reality from both points at the same 'time' and combine them; not as a set of working memories, but rather a current, on-going awareness. Humans don't have the wetware to do this, to see past the illusion of 'time'. But aliens, by many accounts, do have this ability, and their entire perception of reality and their modes of moving through it are based on this. We can't even see them for the most part.
3. When dealing with such enormously advanced beings, we would quite literally occupy the same position on the food chain as dumb livestock; a resource with value as a resource. -Because one thing holds true at these lower levels of reality, (including the level at which such aliens exist); Life feeds on life. We are not the top of the food chain by a long shot, and aliens have as much desire to reach out and communicate with us as human farmers desire to establish meaningful relations with their cattle and corn.
-FL