You really need to check your links for corruption. Not only is the wwbt.com link in your source expired - the NBC footage posted in the article found elsewhere is also expired.
In other words, your supposed evidence & link is more than worthless. It just wastes people's time. kthxbye.
You're assuming that it is trillions of ISK without any actual proof except lots of anonymous coward posts though.
The whole four year thing is speculation by anonymous posters, while there are quite a few players that have posted checkable facts regarding market activity that makes it seem like only matter of a week or whenever alchemy went in.
Yeah, I agree - illegal activity okay when in retaliation against bad corporate policy decisions. When my boss and I disagree, I just slit the throat of the new guy.
Scamming is part of the game, yes - just like any others. Once you give someone something in Eve, it's theirs.
I meant the part you were quoting more along the lines of, how would they be able to do anything at all anyway? Just arbitrarily decide to invalidate normal transactions? Not feasable, and it wouldn't be good for the game as a whole either, imho.
Aaarg. Yeah it is, blast your eyes, and now that I recall it I dislike that "exception" even more. That and I think selling/transferring an actual account unit (set of three characters, one billing bit) is permissible also - but I'd really have to check around to be sure. I've never been interested in such.
Frankly, I wish they'd get outlaw any RMT transactions at all. Of course, there'd always be that black market - you can chance it, but if you ever get caught, you're banned and everything is purged would hopefully become the norm.
I can see the corporate appeal ($$$) behind allowing or just looking the other way toward RMT transactions though. I guess I just like the appeal of starting fresh in a game setting and not being able to buy your way into whatever you want. Corporate greed ftw. =(
That's how I've scanned most of this too, although in much more detail as I've never done any Eve "Banking" and won't until Contracts. All above board "in the EULA sense" as banking cannot be done without this kind of risk with current Eve mechanics. You either give something to someone to do with what they will or you don't.
I'm looking forward to Contracts though, should make some things lots easier. =)
"Market" transactions are secure and game mechanic enforced. Trading between two people, your typical "trade" window, is also secure and enforced. Your "hangar" where you store stuff, is private. There's also a secure "Escrow" system that's going to be replaced by a much more complex "Contract" system coming in the future (and has been on the drawing board for quite a while).
Eve's economy is quite fine. I'm a little curious as to why the dollar value was placed on the ISK though in the submission. As the submitter almost must know to know what he posted, buying or selling ISK for real life currency will get the game account holder (real names here) banned, and the ISK removed from the system. Or so CCP says (repeatedly and loudly).
Yeah, that's why I always though this Eve banking and stock market thing was a little silly. All you have is trust - if you get scammed, you're hosed and there's nothing that can be done about it. Once that's done it's theirs in Eve.
In the real world and banking, there's stuff like laws, etc, and you're money is "secured"/"insured" etc. The equivalent of this would be the Contract system that Eve's had in the drawing board for a while and is putting in Real Soon Now(tm). Formalized and game mechanic enforced Contracts.
I'm sure there'll still be scammers, etc around after though - such is the way of the world. At least Contracts will provide more secure options though, just like signing a contract in the real world when doing banking. =)
You cannot transfar ISK (money) from another character's account to your own.
You can only just give money/items to another character with no assurances of anything. There's the usual secure trading way to do this. Once you do this though - it's theirs.
Everything's done "off the books" as far as the game itself, game mechanics, and this so called "banking" was and is concerned - until the Contract system that's in the works goes in.
Sure, you can trace the money - but if the other person says that you just gave it to them then you're hosed. Once you give something to someone in the game - it's theirs. You can't tie any game mechanic strings or conditions on it and/or expect anything "official" to be done about it.
A thought occured to me while typing this. Someone should offer some sort of contract in Eve. Either it can be done through CCP with GMs backing it and they could even charge for it, or a sufficiently large and militarized corporation could sell contract enforcement. Maybe this has already been done, otherwise feel free to steal this idea and try to make some isk with it.)
There's a formal contract system going in that's going to replace the current 'Escrow' system - it's been in dev blogs for quite a while.
"apparently it was legit because of voting or something?"
I'm not sure about how you'd define 'legit' in this case. There are no in game functions available to allow for player run banks. Basically, you can whip up a web site, just ask people to transfer you ISK, and sha-zam. You're a bank. People got fooled because they wanted to get fooled. I've never touched any of the so-called Eve "Banks", and I don't intend to util the formal contract system goes in (if then).
As all of the "banking" organization took/takes place outside Eve Online, I'm not sure that there's much that the admin there can do besides just start banning people for scamming. There are systems in place to just give other people money/items/etc with, but none to 'bank'.
There IS a formalized ingame enforced contract system coming in soon(tm), that should make playing around with larger amounts of cash a lot easier though.
Wrong answer about it being in-game. There is nothing in-game to support banking, and everything was done by people just handing over unsecured amounts of ISK. Such a good idea.:P
But hey, there's a lot of suckers in the world that just wanna 'get rich quick'.
Not to be rude, but since it was missed - I'll point it out. You are directly contradicted by your citation. That citation also happens to be correct.
Other non-zero-sum games are games in which the sum of gains and losses by the players are always less than what they began with, such as in a game of poker played in a casino in which vigorish is taken by the house.
As someone who's worked for a few casinos - their cut is not insubstantial. All games have a house percentage or get a piece of the action in some form. I've seen in-house only progressive slot machine pots in a fairly rural part of a Mid-Western state grow by a few thousand a day. For the progressives that I mentioned, (usually $1 slots, sometimes the quarter slots can get almost as busy) this means that millions got sunk in to them.
Nicely said. I'm really starting to get worried that if this kind of thing doesn't get stopped soon - it either never will, or will take extreme measures to stop.:(
Any specific sources? I'd be interested to hear such... please keep in mind that the link that you used applies to any form of crypto.
The old "rubber hose treatment" is an idea that is amazingly non-new to anyone in the crypto field, and is (probably) one of the main reasons for wanting to implement hard crypto in the first place.
I'm sure this'll get blown off as 'corporate spin' too then I guess, and I absolutely hate sounding like a fanboy, but oh well...
I like that I can actually play with some of my buddies from Australia, Europe, and other parts of the world in the same game environment. Not just know what they're talking about. *shrugs* I know that in some MMO's you can pick international servers and such, but transferring servers is generally a pain at the least - and usually costs. I gave EverCra^E^E^EQuest a try not too long ago, and I've still seen some things better done in a few MUDs. Well, except for the obvious graphics...
I think it just turns some people off due to a pace that's not quite as breakneck as, "signing on, turning off brain, kill, KilL, KILL!".
Each to their own I guess. I used to like first person shooters too before I got bored to tears and nearly a coma with them. I'll definitely agree with the GP's statement above of his "statement of bias". I just got sick to death of Elves, Goblins, and the fantasy motif too.
Only a few games has been able to hold my interest for longer periods of time. Two MUD's that I've played and still stop in at after more than a decade or so, and now this one that I've been playing for two years and having a blast (no pun intended).
In humble opinion there's a fairly good reason why it won MMORPG's Reader's Choice Best Game award though despite, how do you put it, it's (comparative) lack of player base. 100,000 registered active players is nothing to sneeze at, but it seems to have something, and getting bigger all the time. *shrugs*
PS: My only corporate affiliations are with the internet dept in a food company, and my Eve Online player corp.:P
Okay, why can't I find one fucking comment at +3, +2, or +1 that's actually on topic? *sheesh* I'm starting to not even read the comments here...
Anyway, I'd like to call bullshit on this article. Granted, this is only anecdotal, but when visiting the local Science Museum I couldn't even *react* within 70ms. I play MUD's a lot, I can *tell* the difference between 50ms and 100ms, but to make an intelligent judgment about what I'm seeing?
Forget it.
Yeah, gut 'instinct' will affect you - this is news how?
Come to think of it, I think that, in a world where there were no exploits (PC-wise) the whole callback function scenario was pretty cool.
Sorry, but it has never at any time been true that there has been 'a world where there were no exploits' (computer wise) since before PC's were even thought of as possible by most people... That's why security concious type people are irritated. =)
He also noted that Tumpey's work had to go through a variety of scientific reviews and approvals -- a process Tumpey said took about three years.
"If there was any concern about safety, the experiment would not have been approved," Kawaoka said.
Next time try reading the article genius...
I've not worked with the CDC and friends directly, but I've got a friend that has in the past - and his bio paranoia (like, say just with any type of possibly contaminated sharp) somehow exceeds my computer security paranoia by a few orders of magnitude. It's nuts.
Yaha, I've been saying this for a few years now - although I tend to be a bit more in favor of stuff like allowing "bounties" that are a little more relaxed.
Say, you repeatedly warn a user that they're infected with a known and specified threat and are actively attacking other computers (spam, botnet, etc). If the user is found to have not fixed it in a reasonable time (prolly would have to be days or number of instances depending on type of malicious action), then you can report the person to whoever, the user must then pay a fine - and you get part of it kicked back to you for actively taking part in making the world a better place. The other revenue goes to maintaining the reporting and known threat system.
Of course, this would have to be run by the state or fed to have teeth and to be enforceable...
I like the "bounty" idea because it provides an incentive for both the tech savvy and the non-technical. I think the whole bother would far outweigh... hrm, can't think of any drawbacks offhand... never mind.
Seems fair and reasonable all the way around to me - but then most people don't like taking responsibility for their actions, or lack of such... and will bitch to high hell about any such penalty to even intentional and malicious ignorance.
Slashdot Mirror
Are you sure you're not 12 now?
Sorry, just basing off your idiot punctuation and most obvious sense of naivete and "'leetness".
You really need to check your links for corruption. Not only is the wwbt.com link in your source expired - the NBC footage posted in the article found elsewhere is also expired.
In other words, your supposed evidence & link is more than worthless. It just wastes people's time. kthxbye.
You're assuming that it is trillions of ISK without any actual proof except lots of anonymous coward posts though.
The whole four year thing is speculation by anonymous posters, while there are quite a few players that have posted checkable facts regarding market activity that makes it seem like only matter of a week or whenever alchemy went in.
Yeah - because that impacts dumb ass file extensions that have been hold overs from 8.3 land exactly how?
Everyone should realize by now that file extensions mean exactly nothing, or are a 'suggestion' at best!
Extensions were a convenience - and who's to say that anything that can be interpreted can't have flaws in it's interpreter?!
I just wish that the 'net would be what it was once was and what it promised to be - common sense on top of technical sense.
Silly me.
*snickers* No, this is just common knowledge among the players there. :P
Yeah, I agree - illegal activity okay when in retaliation against bad corporate policy decisions. When my boss and I disagree, I just slit the throat of the new guy.
Oh, wait...
Scamming is part of the game, yes - just like any others. Once you give someone something in Eve, it's theirs.
I meant the part you were quoting more along the lines of, how would they be able to do anything at all anyway? Just arbitrarily decide to invalidate normal transactions? Not feasable, and it wouldn't be good for the game as a whole either, imho.
Aaarg. Yeah it is, blast your eyes, and now that I recall it I dislike that "exception" even more. That and I think selling/transferring an actual account unit (set of three characters, one billing bit) is permissible also - but I'd really have to check around to be sure. I've never been interested in such.
Frankly, I wish they'd get outlaw any RMT transactions at all. Of course, there'd always be that black market - you can chance it, but if you ever get caught, you're banned and everything is purged would hopefully become the norm.
I can see the corporate appeal ($$$) behind allowing or just looking the other way toward RMT transactions though. I guess I just like the appeal of starting fresh in a game setting and not being able to buy your way into whatever you want. Corporate greed ftw. =(
That's how I've scanned most of this too, although in much more detail as I've never done any Eve "Banking" and won't until Contracts. All above board "in the EULA sense" as banking cannot be done without this kind of risk with current Eve mechanics. You either give something to someone to do with what they will or you don't.
I'm looking forward to Contracts though, should make some things lots easier. =)
"Market" transactions are secure and game mechanic enforced. Trading between two people, your typical "trade" window, is also secure and enforced. Your "hangar" where you store stuff, is private. There's also a secure "Escrow" system that's going to be replaced by a much more complex "Contract" system coming in the future (and has been on the drawing board for quite a while).
Eve's economy is quite fine. I'm a little curious as to why the dollar value was placed on the ISK though in the submission. As the submitter almost must know to know what he posted, buying or selling ISK for real life currency will get the game account holder (real names here) banned, and the ISK removed from the system. Or so CCP says (repeatedly and loudly).
Yeah, that's why I always though this Eve banking and stock market thing was a little silly. All you have is trust - if you get scammed, you're hosed and there's nothing that can be done about it. Once that's done it's theirs in Eve.
In the real world and banking, there's stuff like laws, etc, and you're money is "secured"/"insured" etc. The equivalent of this would be the Contract system that Eve's had in the drawing board for a while and is putting in Real Soon Now(tm). Formalized and game mechanic enforced Contracts.
I'm sure there'll still be scammers, etc around after though - such is the way of the world. At least Contracts will provide more secure options though, just like signing a contract in the real world when doing banking. =)
You cannot transfar ISK (money) from another character's account to your own.
You can only just give money/items to another character with no assurances of anything. There's the usual secure trading way to do this. Once you do this though - it's theirs.
Everything's done "off the books" as far as the game itself, game mechanics, and this so called "banking" was and is concerned - until the Contract system that's in the works goes in.
Sure, you can trace the money - but if the other person says that you just gave it to them then you're hosed. Once you give something to someone in the game - it's theirs. You can't tie any game mechanic strings or conditions on it and/or expect anything "official" to be done about it.
A thought occured to me while typing this. Someone should offer some sort of contract in Eve. Either it can be done through CCP with GMs backing it and they could even charge for it, or a sufficiently large and militarized corporation could sell contract enforcement. Maybe this has already been done, otherwise feel free to steal this idea and try to make some isk with it.)
There's a formal contract system going in that's going to replace the current 'Escrow' system - it's been in dev blogs for quite a while.
"apparently it was legit because of voting or something?"
I'm not sure about how you'd define 'legit' in this case. There are no in game functions available to allow for player run banks. Basically, you can whip up a web site, just ask people to transfer you ISK, and sha-zam. You're a bank. People got fooled because they wanted to get fooled. I've never touched any of the so-called Eve "Banks", and I don't intend to util the formal contract system goes in (if then).
As all of the "banking" organization took/takes place outside Eve Online, I'm not sure that there's much that the admin there can do besides just start banning people for scamming. There are systems in place to just give other people money/items/etc with, but none to 'bank'.
There IS a formalized ingame enforced contract system coming in soon(tm), that should make playing around with larger amounts of cash a lot easier though.
Wrong answer about it being in-game. There is nothing in-game to support banking, and everything was done by people just handing over unsecured amounts of ISK. Such a good idea. :P
But hey, there's a lot of suckers in the world that just wanna 'get rich quick'.
Not to be rude, but since it was missed - I'll point it out. You are directly contradicted by your citation. That citation also happens to be correct.
Other non-zero-sum games are games in which the sum of gains and losses by the players are always less than what they began with, such as in a game of poker played in a casino in which vigorish is taken by the house.
As someone who's worked for a few casinos - their cut is not insubstantial. All games have a house percentage or get a piece of the action in some form. I've seen in-house only progressive slot machine pots in a fairly rural part of a Mid-Western state grow by a few thousand a day. For the progressives that I mentioned, (usually $1 slots, sometimes the quarter slots can get almost as busy) this means that millions got sunk in to them.
Nicely said. I'm really starting to get worried that if this kind of thing doesn't get stopped soon - it either never will, or will take extreme measures to stop. :(
Any specific sources? I'd be interested to hear such... please keep in mind that the link that you used applies to any form of crypto.
The old "rubber hose treatment" is an idea that is amazingly non-new to anyone in the crypto field, and is (probably) one of the main reasons for wanting to implement hard crypto in the first place.
I'm sure this'll get blown off as 'corporate spin' too then I guess, and I absolutely hate sounding like a fanboy, but oh well...
:P
I like that I can actually play with some of my buddies from Australia, Europe, and other parts of the world in the same game environment. Not just know what they're talking about. *shrugs* I know that in some MMO's you can pick international servers and such, but transferring servers is generally a pain at the least - and usually costs. I gave EverCra^E^E^EQuest a try not too long ago, and I've still seen some things better done in a few MUDs. Well, except for the obvious graphics...
I think it just turns some people off due to a pace that's not quite as breakneck as, "signing on, turning off brain, kill, KilL, KILL!".
Each to their own I guess. I used to like first person shooters too before I got bored to tears and nearly a coma with them. I'll definitely agree with the GP's statement above of his "statement of bias". I just got sick to death of Elves, Goblins, and the fantasy motif too.
Only a few games has been able to hold my interest for longer periods of time. Two MUD's that I've played and still stop in at after more than a decade or so, and now this one that I've been playing for two years and having a blast (no pun intended).
In humble opinion there's a fairly good reason why it won MMORPG's Reader's Choice Best Game award though despite, how do you put it, it's (comparative) lack of player base. 100,000 registered active players is nothing to sneeze at, but it seems to have something, and getting bigger all the time. *shrugs*
PS: My only corporate affiliations are with the internet dept in a food company, and my Eve Online player corp.
Okay, why can't I find one fucking comment at +3, +2, or +1 that's actually on topic? *sheesh* I'm starting to not even read the comments here...
Anyway, I'd like to call bullshit on this article. Granted, this is only anecdotal, but when visiting the local Science Museum I couldn't even *react* within 70ms. I play MUD's a lot, I can *tell* the difference between 50ms and 100ms, but to make an intelligent judgment about what I'm seeing?
Forget it.
Yeah, gut 'instinct' will affect you - this is news how?
Come to think of it, I think that, in a world where there were no exploits (PC-wise) the whole callback function scenario was pretty cool.
Sorry, but it has never at any time been true that there has been 'a world where there were no exploits' (computer wise) since before PC's were even thought of as possible by most people... That's why security concious type people are irritated. =)
Heh, obviously neither of you actually looked up this company - they do offer landline services...
From TFA:
He also noted that Tumpey's work had to go through a variety of scientific reviews and approvals -- a process Tumpey said took about three years.
"If there was any concern about safety, the experiment would not have been approved," Kawaoka said.
Next time try reading the article genius...
I've not worked with the CDC and friends directly, but I've got a friend that has in the past - and his bio paranoia (like, say just with any type of possibly contaminated sharp) somehow exceeds my computer security paranoia by a few orders of magnitude. It's nuts.
Funny, I've used DS and all of it's official variants and a hell of a lot of mods and a few total conversions for years.
Never had a single problem with 4 different types of firewalls. Having a basic understanding of internet networking may help here.
Yaha, I've been saying this for a few years now - although I tend to be a bit more in favor of stuff like allowing "bounties" that are a little more relaxed.
Say, you repeatedly warn a user that they're infected with a known and specified threat and are actively attacking other computers (spam, botnet, etc). If the user is found to have not fixed it in a reasonable time (prolly would have to be days or number of instances depending on type of malicious action), then you can report the person to whoever, the user must then pay a fine - and you get part of it kicked back to you for actively taking part in making the world a better place. The other revenue goes to maintaining the reporting and known threat system.
Of course, this would have to be run by the state or fed to have teeth and to be enforceable...
I like the "bounty" idea because it provides an incentive for both the tech savvy and the non-technical. I think the whole bother would far outweigh... hrm, can't think of any drawbacks offhand... never mind.
Seems fair and reasonable all the way around to me - but then most people don't like taking responsibility for their actions, or lack of such... and will bitch to high hell about any such penalty to even intentional and malicious ignorance.