How the fuck is this insightful? It's someone imposing their subjective opinion on everyone else...
You give yourself away by using the words, 'purity of nature'.
What's natural? Anything found in the 'natural' world? Yech... leave me out of it.
Modern anti-biotics, construction methods, things like schools or heavens forbid - writing, or anything that can happen in the real world - basically anything that 'can't happen in nature'.
Okay, sure, that's a laudable "natural" goal for idiots that can't actually think. Forget any kind of modern medicine, food preservation, construction, or, heavean's forbid, things like social structure though. Yea! I like complete and total anarchy and only being able to grunt louder than anyone else!
Yeah, I'm taking this to the logical extreme, but what else do you do to test things like extremely ignorant stupidiy and laws - when people are okay with it because it's pretty?
No law is perfectly clear, just like no documentation is perfectly clear and no specification is perfectly clear.
Sigh... Granted I've seen lots of docs and specs that aren't perfectly clear.
I've also seen quite a few that provide a wealth of information that leave little to no room for ambiguity - some of which are international standards such as some networking protocols and other higher level protocols like EDI. Yes, it does take some work to make idiot proof docs and specs - but like in EDI where a single mistake can cost you 10k-25k USD and batches tend to run in the hundreds if not thousands - there's actually some incentive there to prevent it.
Then what the hell do we pay our lawmakers for? This kind of crap really irritates me. I can't think of any reason why at least pretending to think about how laws are worded and possible unintended consequences before it actually becomes law wouldn't be a good idea. I'd think it would be required...
If this law isn't clear in context already, what will happen, most likely, is that it will never be applied to individuals selling their own items on eBay, because nobody thinks of such people as auctioneers, and, were such a person arrested for not having a license, they'd argue that the law doesn't apply, and win their case on this basis.
Sounds like a good way to make lawyers more money and increase the amount of frivolous and idiotic lawsuits going through our courts... Good Job!
Now I know why Dad always wanted me to be a lawyer...
...what will happen, most likely, is that it will never be applied to individuals selling their own items on eBay...
Oh good - I feel safe now. Why not take an extra five minutes and write the damned law that way then in the first place?
Yeah, At Ease was never meant for security, which it did even say on the software box. Our "computer" teacher was our Pys Ed teacher, a hobbyist, so he attempted to use it as such. There were too many ways to get around it for even Mac novices though - which I was at the time, although no stranger to PC's.
Could open apps through hypercard, or even open the At Ease prefs with a graphics program as binary (with Photoshop) and then just "erase" it. No prefs file, everything reset. Or better yet, copy it to another file, erase the original and then just switch it back. Or do some simple string comparisons on the prefs file while switching the password around to determine how the password was stored (simple XOR or similar) and then just read the password whenever it was changed.
All of that work just to play Bolo after school hours (or during study hall) in the library... lol.
Wow, an Anonymous Coward that'd I'd actually mod up if I haven't posted already. So few people have any concept of how crypto actually works - it's kind of sad - it's just basic math and logic (if a lot of it thrown together...)
Well, except for the 'you don't have a fucking clue' bit - that's just flamebait.
The really wierd thing is that "creative spelling" has been actually taught in some schools in the US as a method of getting students to actually be able to write their ideas down on paper.
The SAD thing is, is that some idiotic teachers actually think it's acceptable to use... No shit, I've actually been told this by a Minnesota board certified teacher who is supposedly able to teach the English language to the college level.:P
Exactly. Clinical psychologists will do anything to make people "ill" and then "cure" them for $200/hour.
Yeah, that thought's crossed my mind too. The whole "anything can be psychologically addictive" type thing can almost seem to make sense, but then behavior can seem addictive when it's just a way to cope with other problems though too. Figuring which one is which is probably more brain science/chemistry than psychology though. *shrugs* Who the hell knows, I'm neither shrink nor biochemist, just overtired and probably talking out of my ass. lol
Some of these shrinks need to get together and learn what a whole hell of a lot of AA, Compulsive Gambling, and other addiction specialized counselors and therapists already know, and most will tell you.
Anything can supposedly be addictive, depending on the thought processes and emotions involved.
I don't necessarily agree with that opinion myself, but it's the only explanation that I can think of for sadism, masochism, and some of the other "out there" forms of what most will classify as mental illness.
Sure, games are addictive, but imho only as much as anything else out there. I tend to recognize some very addictive behavior in myself - have spent too much of my past doing drugs, drinking lots, and other nasty stuff that generally isn't considered too healthy or productive.
I like games too - but only nicely complex ones that are well though out and internally consistant - and sometimes I can go a bit overboard.
I'm generally too much of a pragmatist to see it as anything else but escapism though - which is almost a sure sign that something else is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to directly compare games and street drugs, we could easily be talking about quilting here, or maybe something more physical like exercise if that helps people to understand. Whatever calms or makes you feel "comfortable". Runner's high anyone?
It's just that I happen to enjoy and be relatively good at games and game theory.;)
How about we give him a couple of warnings that his computer is infecting others/trojaned/etc, and if he doesn't shape up (that is, fix the problem), we slap him with some nice fines?
Are you not directly responsible for your property when it directly impacts someone else in a negative way? What are a few examples from real life here... Loud music (concert-like loud, easily doable these days), your tree falling on someone else's house, knowing your brakes were going out - and ignoring it, your dangerous pet tiger running free and chewing off some kid's face, etc etc. You get the point. It's called gross negligence.
Why fines for users that continually cause problems hasn't happened yet, I'll never know. I think it's just a symptom of intentional ignorance being "okay". Obviously the idiot running the machine knows that it connects to a world-wide network, that's why clueless people getting on the 'net do it. Just have some basic responsibility is all that I ask.
"Huh? What? Why that's a computer, I don't know anything about those!"
Try telling that to the judge when your brakes fail and you mow down all the kids on Sesame Street because you were just too lazy to get 'em fixed.:P
(and ya ya, different situations, but the same concept)
I don't know, pushing out more phones would be okay, if they're going to be nice and solid and actually let you sync descently.
Kind of irritating the damn app only runs on windows, and even then still sucks rocks. I've been playing with various developer packages, trying to cobble something together, but the packages for the 3586 are pretty much basically non-existant, unless there's an overlapping dev kit and I'm just ignorant of it. (I've been *looking* though too, hard to believe that's the case)
I guess you do get what you pay for, that model is kind of they're entry and newer, but also the best that my provider can recommend for getting a signal out here in the sticks...
I'd love to get a decent *basic* phone with good/great signal reception that you can actually sync contacts with, even if the only option is being allowed to roll my own...
Erk, jeez, that comment could've been a bit trollish of me anyway - wasn't thinking and was posting tres tired... - sorry man. Anyway...
Yeah, definitely, they were longer than the usual flick at the movies - just re-watched 1 & 2, so that comment kinda caught my eye.:)
I just hope (I'm kindof ignorant on this, haven't even looked around yet) that there's just the basic 3 disc set out also - but might go for the full set if it's not too overpriced, ya never know. Depends on how full I feel my pocketbook is when I finally go looking prolly...
Ouch, must have touched a nerve so I'll not correct your assumptions... Was just throwing that out there for the general crowd anyway. Some actually do like knowledge for it's own sake.
But I'm afraid "bullshit knowledge" it's not, as it can mean having a machine run... or not - as you found out.;)
Sorry for the short novel here, but I see a lot more FUD in your arguments than his. Granted, the 1000 number is exaggerated, but then again, that's pretty obvious...
Second, I have never -- that means NOT EVER -- seen an IE fix that broke my machine worse than a virus would.
Funny, I've seen "fixes" come down the pipe and break things quite a few times. Not often true, but enough that I think it's quite a dumb idea to autoapply patches even on a home "play" machine.
And the VAST majority of IE fixes have had no ill effects whatsoever.
A ringing endorsement... too bad they still can't get it right.
The fix might cause problems with IE, but it wouldn't cause my machine to send spam email against my will.
The fix might cause problems with IE, the kernel, once or twice some filesystems, net and memory drivers, just plain destroy config and preferance files and other files totally unrelated to IE... ad nauseum. And, by the way, except for the IE part, NONE of these should even be touched by the code running under IE.:P
You are right about the spam sending part, but that's usually only an annoyance factor when compared to the destruction and leakage of important or potentially confidential information.
On the other hand, emerging the latest from gentoo causes something to break a substantial percentage of the time.
Careful, now you're just showing your ignorance. There's different build profiles that you can use, generally grouped around kernel versions and flavors. If you run any of the development sources, of course things are going to break sometimes. And if a mistake does slip through, a fix for the problem and any secondary problems the first problem caused is usually hot on it's tail.
"a substantial percentage of the time" though is a pretty silly statement though, if you're running a "regular" kernel type. Have a little bit more awareness of what you're emerging/installing.;)
Personally, for my home machine that "just has to" stay up 24/7, I run "development-sources" which, contrary to what the name suggests (and only real instance of this type of misnomer), is built around the 2.6 kernel and stable as hell - meant for production.
On this set I will pretty much blindly emerge stuff from the stable app lists. Have been for almost 2 years, and have had very very few problems.
"I do agree that IE isn't the best browser ever"
Ya, I'll agree to that. Have gotten almost all of my friends that use the net regularly running firefox cause they just got sick of IE running arbitrary code on their machine just by visiting a web site.
"but this doesn't excuse you from putting blame where it doesn't belong.
Where did blame get put, I must have missed that part... If on Microsoft, for not taking care of such bugs when they're known to exist and causing problems, then I'd agree though. I'm confused, this is as it should be...
"If you're going to fault Microsoft for anything, fault them for not being up front about the patch process. They should let us know at every step of the way what the problem is, how to patch it for now, when a fix will be ready and how to defray such bugs from allowing exploits in the future."
Agreed.
That's one cue from OSS they'd be smart to heed.
Yup.
All software is buggy. Pretending it's not is tantemount to pretending you aren't going to fix it."
Yup, but there are many many things you can do to improve your odds. Relying on security through obscurity as MS tends to do more often than not is NOT the answer.
PS:
By the way, http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-kernel.x ml has the different kernels and their relative merits and shortfalls if you're interested.
rofl, caught that myself... It's good to know that the CD doesn't install software that doesn't actually exist by definition - that's gotta be tough to do...
On the other hand, had my first good laugh of the day courtesy of whoever wrote that press release...
I think that most people would not give up living on Earth in order to have a home on another planet.
True, but most people wouldn't have to. Only a tiny tiny tiny fraction would, and, with some minor advances in medicine - it would be self-perpetuating.;)
I tend to disagree since I've suggested Firefox to %90 of my windows running friends and they haven't looked back - and that's just due to popup blocking and auto installs of pr0n homepages and "little" annoying crap that IE just lets through without a blink...
Sure, it's not that many people, after all - I am here reading/., but that's the way things catch on...
Slashdot Mirror
Oops, sorry, dunno how that happened.... (posted anon)
Are you fucking stupid doublebackslash? Yes, and the idiots that modded you up too...
Oh, never mind, I just looked at your posting history...
How the fuck is this insightful? It's someone imposing their subjective opinion on everyone else...
You give yourself away by using the words, 'purity of nature'.
What's natural? Anything found in the 'natural' world? Yech... leave me out of it.
Modern anti-biotics, construction methods, things like schools or heavens forbid - writing, or anything that can happen in the real world - basically anything that 'can't happen in nature'.
Okay, sure, that's a laudable "natural" goal for idiots that can't actually think. Forget any kind of modern medicine, food preservation, construction, or, heavean's forbid, things like social structure though. Yea! I like complete and total anarchy and only being able to grunt louder than anyone else!
Yeah, I'm taking this to the logical extreme, but what else do you do to test things like extremely ignorant stupidiy and laws - when people are okay with it because it's pretty?
Ooh I wish I could mod you up...
No law is perfectly clear, just like no documentation is perfectly clear and no specification is perfectly clear.
Sigh... Granted I've seen lots of docs and specs that aren't perfectly clear.
I've also seen quite a few that provide a wealth of information that leave little to no room for ambiguity - some of which are international standards such as some networking protocols and other higher level protocols like EDI. Yes, it does take some work to make idiot proof docs and specs - but like in EDI where a single mistake can cost you 10k-25k USD and batches tend to run in the hundreds if not thousands - there's actually some incentive there to prevent it.
Then what the hell do we pay our lawmakers for? This kind of crap really irritates me. I can't think of any reason why at least pretending to think about how laws are worded and possible unintended consequences before it actually becomes law wouldn't be a good idea. I'd think it would be required...
If this law isn't clear in context already, what will happen, most likely, is that it will never be applied to individuals selling their own items on eBay, because nobody thinks of such people as auctioneers, and, were such a person arrested for not having a license, they'd argue that the law doesn't apply, and win their case on this basis.
Sounds like a good way to make lawyers more money and increase the amount of frivolous and idiotic lawsuits going through our courts... Good Job!
Now I know why Dad always wanted me to be a lawyer...
Oh good - I feel safe now. Why not take an extra five minutes and write the damned law that way then in the first place?
No kidding, fix the actual security rather than shitty security inplementations...
Yeah, At Ease was never meant for security, which it did even say on the software box. Our "computer" teacher was our Pys Ed teacher, a hobbyist, so he attempted to use it as such. There were too many ways to get around it for even Mac novices though - which I was at the time, although no stranger to PC's.
Could open apps through hypercard, or even open the At Ease prefs with a graphics program as binary (with Photoshop) and then just "erase" it. No prefs file, everything reset. Or better yet, copy it to another file, erase the original and then just switch it back. Or do some simple string comparisons on the prefs file while switching the password around to determine how the password was stored (simple XOR or similar) and then just read the password whenever it was changed.
All of that work just to play Bolo after school hours (or during study hall) in the library... lol.
Looks fine to me...
Wow, an Anonymous Coward that'd I'd actually mod up if I haven't posted already. So few people have any concept of how crypto actually works - it's kind of sad - it's just basic math and logic (if a lot of it thrown together...)
Well, except for the 'you don't have a fucking clue' bit - that's just flamebait.
Are you cracked? If I wrote something like this in a corporate (or division) wide email I'd be summarily shot or drug tested. :P
Maybe the person who writes the email just has to know exactly what you're talking about in that specific context... riiiight.
The really wierd thing is that "creative spelling" has been actually taught in some schools in the US as a method of getting students to actually be able to write their ideas down on paper.
:P
The SAD thing is, is that some idiotic teachers actually think it's acceptable to use... No shit, I've actually been told this by a Minnesota board certified teacher who is supposedly able to teach the English language to the college level.
People have tried this argument before...
;)
"But we rewrote all of the code!!!"
Yeah... whatever, it's still a derivitive work since it's based on the origional.
Exactly. Clinical psychologists will do anything to make people "ill" and then "cure" them for $200/hour.
Yeah, that thought's crossed my mind too. The whole "anything can be psychologically addictive" type thing can almost seem to make sense, but then behavior can seem addictive when it's just a way to cope with other problems though too. Figuring which one is which is probably more brain science/chemistry than psychology though. *shrugs* Who the hell knows, I'm neither shrink nor biochemist, just overtired and probably talking out of my ass. lol
Some of these shrinks need to get together and learn what a whole hell of a lot of AA, Compulsive Gambling, and other addiction specialized counselors and therapists already know, and most will tell you.
;)
Anything can supposedly be addictive, depending on the thought processes and emotions involved.
I don't necessarily agree with that opinion myself, but it's the only explanation that I can think of for sadism, masochism, and some of the other "out there" forms of what most will classify as mental illness.
Sure, games are addictive, but imho only as much as anything else out there. I tend to recognize some very addictive behavior in myself - have spent too much of my past doing drugs, drinking lots, and other nasty stuff that generally isn't considered too healthy or productive.
I like games too - but only nicely complex ones that are well though out and internally consistant - and sometimes I can go a bit overboard.
I'm generally too much of a pragmatist to see it as anything else but escapism though - which is almost a sure sign that something else is wrong.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to directly compare games and street drugs, we could easily be talking about quilting here, or maybe something more physical like exercise if that helps people to understand. Whatever calms or makes you feel "comfortable". Runner's high anyone?
It's just that I happen to enjoy and be relatively good at games and game theory.
How about we give him a couple of warnings that his computer is infecting others/trojaned/etc, and if he doesn't shape up (that is, fix the problem), we slap him with some nice fines?
:P
Are you not directly responsible for your property when it directly impacts someone else in a negative way? What are a few examples from real life here... Loud music (concert-like loud, easily doable these days), your tree falling on someone else's house, knowing your brakes were going out - and ignoring it, your dangerous pet tiger running free and chewing off some kid's face, etc etc. You get the point. It's called gross negligence.
Why fines for users that continually cause problems hasn't happened yet, I'll never know. I think it's just a symptom of intentional ignorance being "okay". Obviously the idiot running the machine knows that it connects to a world-wide network, that's why clueless people getting on the 'net do it. Just have some basic responsibility is all that I ask.
"Huh? What? Why that's a computer, I don't know anything about those!"
Try telling that to the judge when your brakes fail and you mow down all the kids on Sesame Street because you were just too lazy to get 'em fixed.
(and ya ya, different situations, but the same concept)
Yeah, rough "cage" when you can just walk out of it...
Farking loser.
I don't know, pushing out more phones would be okay, if they're going to be nice and solid and actually let you sync descently.
Kind of irritating the damn app only runs on windows, and even then still sucks rocks. I've been playing with various developer packages, trying to cobble something together, but the packages for the 3586 are pretty much basically non-existant, unless there's an overlapping dev kit and I'm just ignorant of it. (I've been *looking* though too, hard to believe that's the case)
I guess you do get what you pay for, that model is kind of they're entry and newer, but also the best that my provider can recommend for getting a signal out here in the sticks...
I'd love to get a decent *basic* phone with good/great signal reception that you can actually sync contacts with, even if the only option is being allowed to roll my own...
Erk, jeez, that comment could've been a bit trollish of me anyway - wasn't thinking and was posting tres tired... - sorry man. Anyway...
:)
Yeah, definitely, they were longer than the usual flick at the movies - just re-watched 1 & 2, so that comment kinda caught my eye.
I just hope (I'm kindof ignorant on this, haven't even looked around yet) that there's just the basic 3 disc set out also - but might go for the full set if it's not too overpriced, ya never know. Depends on how full I feel my pocketbook is when I finally go looking prolly...
Yeah, after all, it takes absolutely no time, effort, or money to even produce such movies. Get a grip...
Lay off the weed, it's distorting your time sense. :P
Ouch, must have touched a nerve so I'll not correct your assumptions... Was just throwing that out there for the general crowd anyway. Some actually do like knowledge for it's own sake.
;)
But I'm afraid "bullshit knowledge" it's not, as it can mean having a machine run... or not - as you found out.
Sorry for the short novel here, but I see a lot more FUD in your arguments than his. Granted, the 1000 number is exaggerated, but then again, that's pretty obvious...
:P
;)
x ml has the different kernels and their relative merits and shortfalls if you're interested.
Second, I have never -- that means NOT EVER -- seen an IE fix that broke my machine worse than a virus would.
Funny, I've seen "fixes" come down the pipe and break things quite a few times. Not often true, but enough that I think it's quite a dumb idea to autoapply patches even on a home "play" machine.
And the VAST majority of IE fixes have had no ill effects whatsoever.
A ringing endorsement... too bad they still can't get it right.
The fix might cause problems with IE, but it wouldn't cause my machine to send spam email against my will.
The fix might cause problems with IE, the kernel, once or twice some filesystems, net and memory drivers, just plain destroy config and preferance files and other files totally unrelated to IE... ad nauseum. And, by the way, except for the IE part, NONE of these should even be touched by the code running under IE.
You are right about the spam sending part, but that's usually only an annoyance factor when compared to the destruction and leakage of important or potentially confidential information.
On the other hand, emerging the latest from gentoo causes something to break a substantial percentage of the time.
Careful, now you're just showing your ignorance. There's different build profiles that you can use, generally grouped around kernel versions and flavors. If you run any of the development sources, of course things are going to break sometimes. And if a mistake does slip through, a fix for the problem and any secondary problems the first problem caused is usually hot on it's tail.
"a substantial percentage of the time" though is a pretty silly statement though, if you're running a "regular" kernel type. Have a little bit more awareness of what you're emerging/installing.
Personally, for my home machine that "just has to" stay up 24/7, I run "development-sources" which, contrary to what the name suggests (and only real instance of this type of misnomer), is built around the 2.6 kernel and stable as hell - meant for production.
On this set I will pretty much blindly emerge stuff from the stable app lists. Have been for almost 2 years, and have had very very few problems.
"I do agree that IE isn't the best browser ever"
Ya, I'll agree to that. Have gotten almost all of my friends that use the net regularly running firefox cause they just got sick of IE running arbitrary code on their machine just by visiting a web site.
"but this doesn't excuse you from putting blame where it doesn't belong.
Where did blame get put, I must have missed that part... If on Microsoft, for not taking care of such bugs when they're known to exist and causing problems, then I'd agree though. I'm confused, this is as it should be...
"If you're going to fault Microsoft for anything, fault them for not being up front about the patch process. They should let us know at every step of the way what the problem is, how to patch it for now, when a fix will be ready and how to defray such bugs from allowing exploits in the future."
Agreed.
That's one cue from OSS they'd be smart to heed.
Yup.
All software is buggy. Pretending it's not is tantemount to pretending you aren't going to fix it."
Yup, but there are many many things you can do to improve your odds. Relying on security through obscurity as MS tends to do more often than not is NOT the answer.
PS:
By the way,
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-kernel.
rofl, caught that myself... It's good to know that the CD doesn't install software that doesn't actually exist by definition - that's gotta be tough to do...
On the other hand, had my first good laugh of the day courtesy of whoever wrote that press release...
I think that most people would not give up living on Earth in order to have a home on another planet.
;)
True, but most people wouldn't have to. Only a tiny tiny tiny fraction would, and, with some minor advances in medicine - it would be self-perpetuating.
I tend to disagree since I've suggested Firefox to %90 of my windows running friends and they haven't looked back - and that's just due to popup blocking and auto installs of pr0n homepages and "little" annoying crap that IE just lets through without a blink...
/., but that's the way things catch on...
Sure, it's not that many people, after all - I am here reading