My other post mentioned a hypothetical situation of you being Ukrainian and your wife russian. I guess that was real life. lol
So in my other post what if you as an Ukrainian owned land and a home and had a job in Crimea? Would you want to loose your identity as an Ukrainian and be under Putin's thumb instead of Ukrainian and perhaps be part of the more open EU later on?
Would you want to loose your home and job if not? What if your wife was Ukrainian or Tar Tar instead? What then? You have a lot invested. That doesn't sound far to me unless you are Russian and then you are screwing your neighbors over by supporting this?
Ukrainians are mixed with Russians through a century of marriage during the soviet union.
There maybe more pure russians or close to it in the east, while in the west it is the opposite. But more than likely they are mixed and have extended family members vowing and routing for one side vs the other. Property too is a problem. What if you had a Russian wife and lived in the east where you job is at and the house you paid a lot of money for is located as well. Now your wife is cheering invasion and bringing food to the rioters taking over government buildings, while you and your brothers and parents join the Ukrainian national guard to fight the evil Russian imperialists? What do you do?
Live under Putin's rule if Russia wins and be backwards in time? SUpport Ukraine and endanger your wife and yourself, but loose your home and job and maybe your marriage?
I spoke with a Russian once on Ukraine several years ago. She said they are Russian or at least slavic. The difference is politics but their true heritage is ours.
What about the Americans who were in Texas and So California before the illegal invasion of refugees outnumbering native residences? I seen it happen in Riverside, CA. 60% of hte people there are not American. What about those who were there previously? Think they want to get kicked out of their homes, loose citizenship, or be forced to move to stay national to their country?
Seriously 30 million illegals have changed the southern US.
No I am not racist at all. I know I maybe modded down by some mod thinking I am insensitive, but fact is if they all wanted to join Mexico I would have a real problem with it and fight anyone who would say so if they came in armed.
So no we would not want a peacefully kick out of our homes or loose our citizenship.
Crimea had a 13% non Russian population so what you saw where Russians wanting to join the motherland. Not the reactions of the oppressed Tar Tars and Ukrainians who hid and kept their mouths shut as many who protested are missing and presummed dead.
SystemD makes sense as it is event based. Solaris and MacOSX have moved beyond init and it makes sense.
How do you setup initd on a Macbook where it is on one network, falls asleep, then wakes up on another? Scenarios such as this and others such as detecting when an apache server gets compromised you can set a chain of commands to do things based on events.
Yes it is different and unix admins hate changes that require years worth of scripts to go obsolete.
But initd is from a different era where a typical server ran 3 or 4 daemons and maybe had a few dozen unix command line options if you were lucky. That is long gone today.
FYI I am typing this on a Windows 7 system I have at home. I use more yes I use VMware workstation with my 16 gigs of ram to simulate domains and do testing and lab work to sharpen my IT skills. But I am not typical. So I am not a 50 year old who hates change at all and wanted to clear that up first.
Security wise excluded XP works for business except in niche cases I see and it is very very expensive to switch and gpos, app certification, and many other steps are needed for something that is not required does not make sense.
I do not know of any use a typical office worker could not do on a Windows 3.11 486? The only except is poorly written javascript ajax websites but that is considered off task on the job anyway.
XP works for 1/3 of the users on the internet. Windows hit the maturity point with XP and now there is no reason to ever change. As the years go by when 2019 hits and Windows 7 goes EOL anyone needing more than 16 gigs of ram and a non raid SSD will be even a much smaller niche. Again no need to change unless MS wants more money.
Yes you like technology and some newer graphical effects and kernel features are cool. But HR does not utilize 4 cpu cores to write a report, check email, and go to taleo to screen an applicant. This is a new age and yes post PC era. Phones need upgrading hell of a lot more than desktops as the benefits go down each new release.
You are right. I can't tell the difference between a reception typing a letter in word 2003 on a p4 vs an i5. She can work just as fast and albeit slower on Windows 7/office 2010 as she may not be familiar with the ribbon yet.
People at work use older IE so that issue of 20 tabs is mute as Chrome is a pig and not a good example of a well written app.
Excel will work just as fast on a pIV unless the finance guru runs a custom VBA application running calculus in excel that number crunches (very rare I may add unless it is a niche app). But for light excel pie charts a 386 can display things as fast for 95% of spreadsheet work as computers today are very very very fast.
A typical office latchkey can do office work fine with 512 megs of ram on XP. Yes it will boot slowly and he will have to come in 5 minutes early. But only the engineers, developers, and servers need anything more for light office work.
You can edit photos fine with 512 megs of ram if you use Adobe CS2 which is free and what XP users would be using. IE 8 runs fine with 512 megs of ram too. So why change if people can still get work done just as well?
Sure a new $600 computer sounds trivial for a user but when you are complex you have +20 GPOs (some are not win 7 compatible), apps, fussy apps, OU changes, and many many other issues it gets expensive and a pain in the butt requiring consultants, +20 temps, and production impacts as bugs arise.
XP is not just a toy. It is the pillar upon all business processes and software rest upon. Quite a big under taking.
Do not be surprised when management views you as incompetent when you suggest to spend millions to replace a perfectly good working platform that just works and generates hundreds of millions of dollars all because it isn't new?!
ATMs generate trillions in revenue for the banks! They are mission critical and work just fine. Why take risk with no ROI??!
If it aint broke DONT FIX IT. XP works and does the job as well as Windows 7. Sure you can name some kernel features to me and the cost accountants yada yada but our response will always be "How does this help raise the shareprice or boast productivity?" Can the receptionist type faster? Can our accountants put numbers faster? The answer is NO!
So it sounds like IT is doing the right thing with sticking with XP until MS forces us to change. Yes it is 13 years old but so are many pieces of equipment in a business. If they work you keep them. Windows needs to give us a productivity boast. If not the old os stays. Simple as that.
Well things cost money. Yes we pay for them. That is life as you would be pissed of one person paid you for something and I took it for free and gave your work away to others right?
That amount wont cover the cost for a whole year. It is the combined total.
However, yes updates do come into play depending on use. Citigroup has a 45 year old mainframe app to do its processing. There is no need to upgrade and the punchcards will lost many decades ago so it can never be updated.
Yes I was for people keeping XP too if there was no reason to upgrade.
However software does need updating. Look at the openssl heartbeat bug? Linux and apache have many that Slashdot mysteriously never report and lazy unix admins never upgrade which are constantly hacked! Java has issues..NET has issues. Windows has issues. Solaris has issues. Nuclear reactor software written in freaking cobol for Digital's pre-VMS OS is still being updated today and run on PDP-11's in Europe.
Sometimes things change like standards, new hardware, new currency rules, timezone changes in law, etc.
What can you do on a nice shiny new i5core Dell box that your XP system can not?
Can you type faster? Can you think faster? Do webpages load up faster? Do pie charts in excel pop up quicker?
Where are the productivity enhancements to pay for this investment??... I am waiting. That's right there is none. So it is not an asset. It is a cost center and an expense. This is why XP is still around.
It works and the cost is already set. Instead of blowing millions like my employer is upgrading how about the millions be used to raise the share price higher? Isn't that the goal of business? Or hire new salespeople? Or buy new factories? Or upgrade trucks to lower costs? All those bring in more revenue than the cost so therefore they are a profit center and an asset.
Look you like technology like many of us and that is great. But at some point it is trivial eye candy. If security wasn't an issue no one would bother upgrading except enthusiasts.
Those machines aren't going to implode because they don't get updates.
Keep running them, keep on replacing them. Block all external web sites to employees (which they should be anyway).
Do you really want your personal information on a vulnerable system where a Russian hacker can make a killing selling your identity? Do you still back that up in such a case?
As much as I am a proponent of it aint broke do not fix it I have to bring up the costs it takes for Microsoft to man up a support command and control center, os kernel hackers, teams of security experts, and developers who know ancient code bases to keep the updates going year after year after year.
This aint free.
Ms should charge something for support and if only a slim number are willing to pay for it the associated costs is going to be high. If they charge $30 a pc (example) the neophytes and Grandma wouldn't even know about nor pay for it. It would be a money losing proposition.
IBM charges for 360 support still for 40 year old software! However, mainframes have not been sold for decades. They are rented with high fees to pay developers. XP is just like a mainframe where you pay through the nose for support as average Joes are not willing to pay $100 every 3 years to keep running it.
It works. It has the best gui. Windows explorer isn't crippled. Apps just work. Websites render just right. Updates do not break it unlike 7 or 8. It works well with 512 megs of ram.
If it aint broke DON"T FIX IT!
The reason they like XP is they had win98 and WinME and remember the crapola experiences, crashes, re-installing the OS, etc. XP was the first OS which just worked. Why change?
People become conservative as a result. Our grandparents who grew up during World War II and the Great depression became conservative and AMERICA IS GREAT during the 1950's when good times hit. Same is true with XP. It came from an era of bad apples preceeding it. Now look at Windows 8 and Vista which came later?
Can you blame them of being afraid of change?
XP works just fine and they do not want a cell phone os and risk nightmares of getting things to work and performance problems. It finally works so leave it and they need a reason to change. There is no reason to change what works right?
Free time is not free. If you eat out someone has to give up their time to serve you. If you drive your car to somewhere then the drilling, oil companies, and gas station attendents have to lose their free time to serve you. If you eat the farmer and truck drivers loose their free time etc.
So this is why you have less time to enjoy yourself unless you are truly self sufficient. Then you need to give up your own free time to milk your cows and grow your crops.
You are screwed either you way. So this is nonsense as you give \up your time and the value of your time you give up determines the value others give up for yours in return. Welcome to life!!
Then how can you deploy it or change things at the AD level?
The point is that I got mod -1 for telling the truth is until Linux catches up to Windows is not is not a business ready OS without these things. I am migrating 35,000 computers at work. No way can we do what we do with Unix.
Access Control Lists came from VMS. UNIX knows root and non root. Yes someone added a patch to Linux to include. But is not integrated with the platform and most apps are not ACL aware. With OU's you can set them for locations in AD with group policies and move with a mouse click by the thousands.
Due to sexual harassment lawsuits businesses need a way to track usage. Everyone uses.pac files with IE.
Doesn't matter if it's win specific or not. Shit needs to get done. GPOs do that. Linux never had an answer to this so it stays in academia and specialized servers. For business sorry but Windows has it beat with management.
employment is only income if your time is worthless
It is worth something to someone. That's called your salary or wage. Now if you do nothing this value decreases very rapidly to minimum wage by 6 months
Slashdot Mirror
Wow
My other post mentioned a hypothetical situation of you being Ukrainian and your wife russian. I guess that was real life. lol
So in my other post what if you as an Ukrainian owned land and a home and had a job in Crimea? Would you want to loose your identity as an Ukrainian and be under Putin's thumb instead of Ukrainian and perhaps be part of the more open EU later on?
Would you want to loose your home and job if not? What if your wife was Ukrainian or Tar Tar instead? What then? You have a lot invested. That doesn't sound far to me unless you are Russian and then you are screwing your neighbors over by supporting this?
Ukrainians are mixed with Russians through a century of marriage during the soviet union.
There maybe more pure russians or close to it in the east, while in the west it is the opposite. But more than likely they are mixed and have extended family members vowing and routing for one side vs the other. Property too is a problem. What if you had a Russian wife and lived in the east where you job is at and the house you paid a lot of money for is located as well. Now your wife is cheering invasion and bringing food to the rioters taking over government buildings, while you and your brothers and parents join the Ukrainian national guard to fight the evil Russian imperialists? What do you do?
Live under Putin's rule if Russia wins and be backwards in time? SUpport Ukraine and endanger your wife and yourself, but loose your home and job and maybe your marriage?
I spoke with a Russian once on Ukraine several years ago. She said they are Russian or at least slavic. The difference is politics but their true heritage is ours.
What about the Americans who were in Texas and So California before the illegal invasion of refugees outnumbering native residences? I seen it happen in Riverside, CA. 60% of hte people there are not American. What about those who were there previously? Think they want to get kicked out of their homes, loose citizenship, or be forced to move to stay national to their country?
Seriously 30 million illegals have changed the southern US.
No I am not racist at all. I know I maybe modded down by some mod thinking I am insensitive, but fact is if they all wanted to join Mexico I would have a real problem with it and fight anyone who would say so if they came in armed.
So no we would not want a peacefully kick out of our homes or loose our citizenship.
Crimea had a 13% non Russian population so what you saw where Russians wanting to join the motherland. Not the reactions of the oppressed Tar Tars and Ukrainians who hid and kept their mouths shut as many who protested are missing and presummed dead.
Actually Windows 7 RTM was dropped last year.
Only sp 1 is supported. Bad if you have apps that check for version
Well, you're right, they're hardly comparable. A rectal examination is over rather quickly and there is actually a good reason for it.
yeah I was wondering if they had to use the whole fist when I tried windows 8
SystemD makes sense as it is event based. Solaris and MacOSX have moved beyond init and it makes sense.
How do you setup initd on a Macbook where it is on one network, falls asleep, then wakes up on another? Scenarios such as this and others such as detecting when an apache server gets compromised you can set a chain of commands to do things based on events.
Yes it is different and unix admins hate changes that require years worth of scripts to go obsolete.
But initd is from a different era where a typical server ran 3 or 4 daemons and maybe had a few dozen unix command line options if you were lucky. That is long gone today.
Such as ...?
FYI I am typing this on a Windows 7 system I have at home. I use more yes I use VMware workstation with my 16 gigs of ram to simulate domains and do testing and lab work to sharpen my IT skills. But I am not typical. So I am not a 50 year old who hates change at all and wanted to clear that up first.
Security wise excluded XP works for business except in niche cases I see and it is very very expensive to switch and gpos, app certification, and many other steps are needed for something that is not required does not make sense.
I do not know of any use a typical office worker could not do on a Windows 3.11 486? The only except is poorly written javascript ajax websites but that is considered off task on the job anyway.
XP works for 1/3 of the users on the internet. Windows hit the maturity point with XP and now there is no reason to ever change. As the years go by when 2019 hits and Windows 7 goes EOL anyone needing more than 16 gigs of ram and a non raid SSD will be even a much smaller niche. Again no need to change unless MS wants more money.
Yes you like technology and some newer graphical effects and kernel features are cool. But HR does not utilize 4 cpu cores to write a report, check email, and go to taleo to screen an applicant. This is a new age and yes post PC era. Phones need upgrading hell of a lot more than desktops as the benefits go down each new release.
LOL comparing an OS to a rectal examination. Only on Slashdot.
At work we use i5's which are brand new with 8 gigs of ram and put XP on them.
When the time is right we will re-image them. We are still upgrading Pentium IV's.
You are right. I can't tell the difference between a reception typing a letter in word 2003 on a p4 vs an i5. She can work just as fast and albeit slower on Windows 7/office 2010 as she may not be familiar with the ribbon yet.
People at work use older IE so that issue of 20 tabs is mute as Chrome is a pig and not a good example of a well written app.
Excel will work just as fast on a pIV unless the finance guru runs a custom VBA application running calculus in excel that number crunches (very rare I may add unless it is a niche app). But for light excel pie charts a 386 can display things as fast for 95% of spreadsheet work as computers today are very very very fast.
A typical office latchkey can do office work fine with 512 megs of ram on XP. Yes it will boot slowly and he will have to come in 5 minutes early. But only the engineers, developers, and servers need anything more for light office work.
You can edit photos fine with 512 megs of ram if you use Adobe CS2 which is free and what XP users would be using. IE 8 runs fine with 512 megs of ram too. So why change if people can still get work done just as well?
Sure a new $600 computer sounds trivial for a user but when you are complex you have +20 GPOs (some are not win 7 compatible), apps, fussy apps, OU changes, and many many other issues it gets expensive and a pain in the butt requiring consultants, +20 temps, and production impacts as bugs arise.
XP is not just a toy. It is the pillar upon all business processes and software rest upon. Quite a big under taking.
Or bad IT worker test.
Do not be surprised when management views you as incompetent when you suggest to spend millions to replace a perfectly good working platform that just works and generates hundreds of millions of dollars all because it isn't new?!
ATMs generate trillions in revenue for the banks! They are mission critical and work just fine. Why take risk with no ROI??!
If it aint broke DONT FIX IT. XP works and does the job as well as Windows 7. Sure you can name some kernel features to me and the cost accountants yada yada but our response will always be "How does this help raise the shareprice or boast productivity?" Can the receptionist type faster? Can our accountants put numbers faster? The answer is NO!
So it sounds like IT is doing the right thing with sticking with XP until MS forces us to change. Yes it is 13 years old but so are many pieces of equipment in a business. If they work you keep them. Windows needs to give us a productivity boast. If not the old os stays. Simple as that.
100% true and why corps love XP. 90% of staff run fine off a pentuimIV so the cost accountants will find a better use of the money
Well things cost money. Yes we pay for them. That is life as you would be pissed of one person paid you for something and I took it for free and gave your work away to others right?
That amount wont cover the cost for a whole year. It is the combined total.
Software never ages. It can run forever.
However, yes updates do come into play depending on use. Citigroup has a 45 year old mainframe app to do its processing. There is no need to upgrade and the punchcards will lost many decades ago so it can never be updated.
Please
Yes I was for people keeping XP too if there was no reason to upgrade.
However software does need updating. Look at the openssl heartbeat bug? Linux and apache have many that Slashdot mysteriously never report and lazy unix admins never upgrade which are constantly hacked! Java has issues. .NET has issues. Windows has issues. Solaris has issues. Nuclear reactor software written in freaking cobol for Digital's pre-VMS OS is still being updated today and run on PDP-11's in Europe.
Sometimes things change like standards, new hardware, new currency rules, timezone changes in law, etc.
Let me flip this?
What can you do on a nice shiny new i5core Dell box that your XP system can not?
Can you type faster? Can you think faster? Do webpages load up faster? Do pie charts in excel pop up quicker?
Where are the productivity enhancements to pay for this investment?? ... I am waiting. That's right there is none. So it is not an asset. It is a cost center and an expense. This is why XP is still around.
It works and the cost is already set. Instead of blowing millions like my employer is upgrading how about the millions be used to raise the share price higher? Isn't that the goal of business? Or hire new salespeople? Or buy new factories? Or upgrade trucks to lower costs? All those bring in more revenue than the cost so therefore they are a profit center and an asset.
Look you like technology like many of us and that is great. But at some point it is trivial eye candy. If security wasn't an issue no one would bother upgrading except enthusiasts.
Yep. It's a total waste of money.
Those machines aren't going to implode because they don't get updates.
Keep running them, keep on replacing them. Block all external web sites to employees (which they should be anyway).
Do you really want your personal information on a vulnerable system where a Russian hacker can make a killing selling your identity? Do you still back that up in such a case?
As much as I am a proponent of it aint broke do not fix it I have to bring up the costs it takes for Microsoft to man up a support command and control center, os kernel hackers, teams of security experts, and developers who know ancient code bases to keep the updates going year after year after year.
This aint free.
Ms should charge something for support and if only a slim number are willing to pay for it the associated costs is going to be high. If they charge $30 a pc (example) the neophytes and Grandma wouldn't even know about nor pay for it. It would be a money losing proposition.
IBM charges for 360 support still for 40 year old software! However, mainframes have not been sold for decades. They are rented with high fees to pay developers. XP is just like a mainframe where you pay through the nose for support as average Joes are not willing to pay $100 every 3 years to keep running it.
Windows XP is the best Win OS ever made.
It works. It has the best gui. Windows explorer isn't crippled. Apps just work. Websites render just right. Updates do not break it unlike 7 or 8. It works well with 512 megs of ram.
If it aint broke DON"T FIX IT!
The reason they like XP is they had win98 and WinME and remember the crapola experiences, crashes, re-installing the OS, etc. XP was the first OS which just worked. Why change?
People become conservative as a result. Our grandparents who grew up during World War II and the Great depression became conservative and AMERICA IS GREAT during the 1950's when good times hit. Same is true with XP. It came from an era of bad apples preceeding it. Now look at Windows 8 and Vista which came later?
Can you blame them of being afraid of change?
XP works just fine and they do not want a cell phone os and risk nightmares of getting things to work and performance problems. It finally works so leave it and they need a reason to change. There is no reason to change what works right?
Time to pay up and downgrade off XP the best win os ever made.
IRS should how that one feels. A strong sense or irony or karma if you believe in the latter
Free time is not free. If you eat out someone has to give up their time to serve you. If you drive your car to somewhere then the drilling, oil companies, and gas station attendents have to lose their free time to serve you. If you eat the farmer and truck drivers loose their free time etc.
So this is why you have less time to enjoy yourself unless you are truly self sufficient. Then you need to give up your own free time to milk your cows and grow your crops.
You are screwed either you way. So this is nonsense as you give \up your time and the value of your time you give up determines the value others give up for yours in return. Welcome to life!!
Then how can you deploy it or change things at the AD level?
The point is that I got mod -1 for telling the truth is until Linux catches up to Windows is not is not a business ready OS without these things. I am migrating 35,000 computers at work. No way can we do what we do with Unix.
Access Control Lists came from VMS. UNIX knows root and non root. Yes someone added a patch to Linux to include. But is not integrated with the platform and most apps are not ACL aware. With OU's you can set them for locations in AD with group policies and move with a mouse click by the thousands.
Due to sexual harassment lawsuits businesses need a way to track usage. Everyone uses .pac files with IE.
Doesn't matter if it's win specific or not. Shit needs to get done. GPOs do that. Linux never had an answer to this so it stays in academia and specialized servers. For business sorry but Windows has it beat with management.
employment is only income if your time is worthless
It is worth something to someone. That's called your salary or wage. Now if you do nothing this value decreases very rapidly to minimum wage by 6 months