What should Bush had done after the August 6th briefing? Please, I am interested in your answer, what with all the foreign policy and military experience you must have.
Keeping in mind the August memo was really really vague in it's warnings.
Not to mention that the taxpayer money we are paying US contractors to rebuild Iraqi infrastructure is going toward rebuilding infrastructure that was destroyed by the US military, using taxpayer money.
So we are creating jobs and wealth.
We are paying military folks salaries (the majority of the budget). They will spend this money in the US. On US products. Stimulating the economy.
We are paying for defense programs. To US companies. Who pay US employees, who buy food and cars for their families. In the US.
We are paying for US Contractors. Who are US companies. With US employees. All of this money "wasting" in Iraq is going to US interests, people, and companies. To be spend back in the US on labor, raw materials and taxes.
I fail to see the problem here. Sounds like a good way to stimulate the economy to me.
Amen. This being Slashdot, you would think this would get a positive response, it is Science after all.
But no, it's defense technology (like so much else) so it's an evil Republican plot to steal from poor blacks and old people.
How many technologies would not have come along if it wasn't for the military/NASA/NSA/CIA/NRO?
Missiles are cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the cost of a missile striking Seattle or Las Vegas. CHEAP. Unbelieveable cheap. They could spend $100 Billion and it would still be cheap.
Verizon wants monopoly rights to the fibre they are laying
If they are laying it, it is their right to use it however they want. If Earthlink wants to run fibre, they can...
If Verizon is spending millions of dollars to run fibre everywhere, don't you think they should be compensated fairly for it?
You say you are a believer in free markets, but apparently not free enough.
Also, when you pull a section directly from a Washington Post front page story, you should probably cite that, otherwise you look pretty shifty. You might also want to read the rest of that article.
CBSNEWS LAUNCHES INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AFTER SUSPICIOUS BUSH DOCS AIRED
**Exclusive**
CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.
The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.
Just like Kerry annihilated William Weld in his Senate race right? That was such a defeat. Weld almost won, in Massachusetts. A Republican for senate in mass? Wow.
If John Kerry finishes his opponents, why is Bush ahead in the polls?
A Lt. Colonel is impressive and all, but he would not be writing on a 20,000 typewriter for a memo, would he? Maybe. But, maybe not. It is worth investigating.
"I asked him to put a percentage on the chances that this was a fake, and he said that was 'hard to put a number on it.' I then suggested '90%?' Again he said it's 'hard to put an exact number, but I'd say it's at least that high, sure. I pretty much agree that that font is Times New Roman.'"
The paper today said that you were a space alien. Because you haven't challenged it's authenticity it must be true.
Just because the Bush admin hasn't challenged, doesn't mean they are admitting they are true either. Wow you can twist your logic around however you want.
"I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft's Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date "18 August 1973," then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian...The spacing is not just similar--it is identical in every respect. Notice that the date lines up perfectly, all the line breaks are in the same places, all letters line up with the same letters above and below, and the kerning is exactly the same...There is absolutely no way that this document was typed on any machine that was available in 1973.
After much thought on the issue I decided that a country should be treated like a person, and that loving your neighbour is just as much a directive for a country as it is for a person. It is one way to look at it, though I don't know how valid it is in the world. As a religious person, do you believe in the concept of good and evil? If your neighbor is evil should you still love him? It's one difference between judaism and christianity, judaism believes in evil and stopping it. Christianity believe in turning the other cheek. Should the United States turn the other cheek against Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden? Should we have turned the other cheek to Japan after Pearl Harbor? At some point you MUST fight back, or else we all perish.
The doctrine of preemptive strike (under which Iraq was invaded) is contrary to Christian principles... It is a dangerous doctrine for America also as it means that [North] Korea can invade if it feels threatened by America (as it no doubt does). In the end it assumes that America is stronger than the rest of the world. [For this exercise, imagine you live in America] Imagine you live in a small suburban neighborhood, with white picket fences and nice lawns and everything. Your five year old daughter enjoys playing in your front yard with her dolls. Next door to you, is a man who was arrested for murder, but was found not guilty at trial. Couldn't be proved, though pretty much everyone knows he did it. Your neighbor (who christianity says you should love and forgive his trespasses) walks around his front yard with a loaded 12-gauge shotgun. When you confront him about it, he says it's for personal protection, and as long as you don't trespass on his property, or impede him in anyway, he won't shoot you or your daughter. When you go to the police, they say they can't arrest him for it, but they will put a police car across the street from both of you, just in case. He gets mad at you for tattling to you to the police. You start getting threatening letters from him, saying he is going to kill you and your daughter who is playing in the front yard all the time, completely innocently. He starts buying more weapons (legally) and stashing them in his front yard and buy's a pit-bull attack dog and ties it up in the front yard. What do you do?
The war on Iraq was waged for dishonest reasons. WMD & terrorism were given as the major reasons, and both of these were false. WMD has yet to be determined, but at this point it looks like you are half right. There are (as yet) no WMD's in Iraq. However, they were there once. He used them. We know they were there because he told us. We sold some of them to him (not relevant here, but a whole different issue). The American, English, French, German, Russia, Polish, Israeli, and Australian intelligence services all thought he had WMD's and were actively trying to get more. The United Nations knew he had them. The question is, where are they? Maybe he had destroyed them, and had none at all in recent years and months; then why didn't he let inspectors in? Why did he stonewall the United Nations and the United States? Why did he ignore Security Council Resolution 1441? Why would he do these things if he had nothing to hide? It doesn't add up. Personally I think that they were shipped to Syria, and there is some (not much public) evidence to support this claim. We will find out eventually.
As far as terrorism goes, Saddam was giving money to Palestinian homicide bombers families, supporting their murder of civilian's in Israel including American civilians (probably Australians too, but I don't know). He had contact with Al Qaeda and extensive ties to Syria and the aforementioned Palestinian terror movement (NOTE: I did not say he was connected to 9/11). He was constantly shooting at US warplanes that were patrolling the No-Fly-Zone in southern Iraq. He openly praised the 9/11 attacks and tried to kill our former President. Saddam was a bad man
If you haven't seen it yet, this is an interesting look at Fahrenheit 9/11. Moore kool-aid drinkers will slam it, but it's interesting to see.
Moore is certainly a good pitchman, and gets lots of people to see his movies, but he spins more than a tilt-a-whirl.
Do you not support the war because you are a pacifist, or some other reason?
My mother is as liberal as they come and she is quite secular; she isn't voting for Bush because (among other reasons) he is "a Evangelical Christian who hates me and everything I stand for" like abortion, women's rights, yadda yadda. She thinks those because he is a very strong believing Christian. She also opposes the war because she agrees with Sen. Kennedy that it was "a war concocted in Texas for political gain" and to help Cheney's Halliburton cronies.
How do I reconcile your view and hers?
I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to figure it out the other side's views.
Also, my mother cannot stand that I'm a conservative (small-c) so I don't agree with Bush on a lot of domestic issues.
Slashdot Mirror
"We can't even supply our troops with enough armor"
Yes, it is true that a Humvee is not a tank. We all know this.
You can blame President Clinton for ordering too many Humvees, and not enough Bradlee's.
Yes, if we had more armor, fewer troops would have died. But we didn't.
You go to war with the Army you have. That's the facts of life. You change and adapt as things move along.
Just because the situation isn't perfect, doesn't mean you don't go at all.
You let Clinton completely off the hook.
What should Bush had done after the August 6th briefing? Please, I am interested in your answer, what with all the foreign policy and military experience you must have.
Keeping in mind the August memo was really really vague in it's warnings.
UBL wanted to attack America! Wow. News flash.
Not to mention that the taxpayer money we are paying US contractors to rebuild Iraqi infrastructure is going toward rebuilding infrastructure that was destroyed by the US military, using taxpayer money.
So we are creating jobs and wealth.
We are paying military folks salaries (the majority of the budget). They will spend this money in the US. On US products. Stimulating the economy.
We are paying for defense programs. To US companies. Who pay US employees, who buy food and cars for their families. In the US.
We are paying for US Contractors. Who are US companies. With US employees. All of this money "wasting" in Iraq is going to US interests, people, and companies. To be spend back in the US on labor, raw materials and taxes. I fail to see the problem here. Sounds like a good way to stimulate the economy to me.
Amen. This being Slashdot, you would think this would get a positive response, it is Science after all.
But no, it's defense technology (like so much else) so it's an evil Republican plot to steal from poor blacks and old people.
How many technologies would not have come along if it wasn't for the military/NASA/NSA/CIA/NRO?
Missiles are cheap, cheap, cheap compared to the cost of a missile striking Seattle or Las Vegas. CHEAP. Unbelieveable cheap. They could spend $100 Billion and it would still be cheap.
You cannot put a price on American lives.
Verizon wants monopoly rights to the fibre they are laying If they are laying it, it is their right to use it however they want. If Earthlink wants to run fibre, they can... If Verizon is spending millions of dollars to run fibre everywhere, don't you think they should be compensated fairly for it? You say you are a believer in free markets, but apparently not free enough.
I cannot fathom how this got onto Slashdot, nor how the poll even got funded or published.
THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES NOT VOTE IN US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS!
It matters more who the Simpson's and Han Solo would vote for than what the Phillipines thinks should be President.
No, I can tell you how this got onto Slashdot, you are all a bunch of loonies and you have no idea how to be the least bit unbiased. Except for Pudge.
What do you have to say for yourself now?
What? I was agreeing with you. I didn't really make that clear though. Fucking cnn.
Also, when you pull a section directly from a Washington Post front page story, you should probably cite that, otherwise you look pretty shifty. You might also want to read the rest of that article.
Tsk tsk, bad reporting by you.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/09/bush.gua rd.ap/index.html
That's fine, they don't have to report the news if they don't want to. Everyone else will be front and center.
You really shouldn't take CBS's denial at face value. Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations. That's how it works.
An intellectually honest person would leave open the POSSIBLITY that they are wrong. You are backing yourself into a corner here.
From Drudge:
XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX THU SEPT 09, 2004 22:45:32 ET XXXXX
CBSNEWS LAUNCHES INTERNAL INVESTIGATION AFTER SUSPICIOUS BUSH DOCS AIRED
**Exclusive**
CBS NEWS executives have launched an internal investigation into whether its premiere news program 60 MINUTES aired fabricated documents relating to Bush's National Guard service, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.
"The reputation and integrity of the entire news division is at stake, if we are in error, it will be corrected," a top CBS source explained late Thursday.
The source, who asked not to be named, described CBSNEWS anchor and 60 MINUTES correspondent Dan Rather as being privately "shell-shocked" by the increasingly likelihood that the documents in question were fraudulent.
Rather, who anchored the segment presenting new information on the president's military service, will personally correct the record on-air, if need be, the source explained from New York.
PAGE A01 Washington Post
You weren't accepting the possibility of it being a forgery. I accept either possiblity. What is the problem?
Should we be concerned that high level people from North Korea have talked with high level people from China and Japan?
Hell yes we should be concerned that China and North Korea meet.
I doubt Japan and North Korea meeting as they don't really like each other.
Here are a few websites that reference this situation:
UPI: breaking news
littlegreenfootballs.com
AllahPundit here and here and here.
indcjournal.com
cnsnews.com
command-post.org
hftp.blogspot.com
Just like Kerry annihilated William Weld in his Senate race right? That was such a defeat. Weld almost won, in Massachusetts. A Republican for senate in mass? Wow.
If John Kerry finishes his opponents, why is Bush ahead in the polls?
A Lt. Colonel is impressive and all, but he would not be writing on a 20,000 typewriter for a memo, would he? Maybe. But, maybe not. It is worth investigating.
http://insider.washingtontimes.com/articles/view_u pi.php?StoryID=20040909-040052-8114r
For a guy who sounds like he watched Fahrenheit 9/11 and took it as gospel, you really aren't open to new forms of media are you?
LGF is a very reputable blog. What do you want from me? In 2 weeks if it comes out that this was faked, will you apologize?
There is a question to the authenticity.
2 52 6_Bush_Guard_Documents-_Forged
P ol itics\archive\200409\POL20040909d.html
1 69 .html
u me nts-forged.html
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=1
http://www.allahpundit.com/archives/000925.html
http://www.allahpundit.com/archives/000926.html
http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000838.php
http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewPolitics.asp?Page=\
http://www.command-post.org/2004/2_archives/015
http://hftp.blogspot.com/2004/09/60-minutes-doc
Another point that was brought up, why is it not on letterhead? Letters like this should be on AF letterhead.
It's very curious, something to look at.
It's on drudge now BTW.
NEW: AllahPundit
"I asked him to put a percentage on the chances that this was a fake, and he said that was 'hard to put a number on it.' I then suggested '90%?' Again he said it's 'hard to put an exact number, but I'd say it's at least that high, sure. I pretty much agree that that font is Times New Roman.'"
The existed, yes. But they were very very expensive, and some yahoo in Alabama didn't have one. Probably.
It is suspect though, and something to look into.
The paper today said that you were a space alien. Because you haven't challenged it's authenticity it must be true.
Just because the Bush admin hasn't challenged, doesn't mean they are admitting they are true either. Wow you can twist your logic around however you want.
Little Green Footballs here
"I opened Microsoft Word, set the font to Microsoft's Times New Roman, tabbed over to the default tab stop to enter the date "18 August 1973," then typed the rest of the document purportedly from the personal records of the late Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian...The spacing is not just similar--it is identical in every respect. Notice that the date lines up perfectly, all the line breaks are in the same places, all letters line up with the same letters above and below, and the kerning is exactly the same...There is absolutely no way that this document was typed on any machine that was available in 1973.
PowerLine here.
Pacetown here.
I don't have time to write back now, so I'll do it later, if you want to continue this over email, we can do that too...
-jlgolson.mac@com if you like
-jg
Interesting stuff, here is my take on it all.
After much thought on the issue I decided that a country should be treated like a person, and that loving your neighbour is just as much a directive for a country as it is for a person.
It is one way to look at it, though I don't know how valid it is in the world. As a religious person, do you believe in the concept of good and evil? If your neighbor is evil should you still love him? It's one difference between judaism and christianity, judaism believes in evil and stopping it. Christianity believe in turning the other cheek. Should the United States turn the other cheek against Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden? Should we have turned the other cheek to Japan after Pearl Harbor? At some point you MUST fight back, or else we all perish.
The doctrine of preemptive strike (under which Iraq was invaded) is contrary to Christian principles... It is a dangerous doctrine for America also as it means that [North] Korea can invade if it feels threatened by America (as it no doubt does). In the end it assumes that America is stronger than the rest of the world.
[For this exercise, imagine you live in America] Imagine you live in a small suburban neighborhood, with white picket fences and nice lawns and everything. Your five year old daughter enjoys playing in your front yard with her dolls. Next door to you, is a man who was arrested for murder, but was found not guilty at trial. Couldn't be proved, though pretty much everyone knows he did it. Your neighbor (who christianity says you should love and forgive his trespasses) walks around his front yard with a loaded 12-gauge shotgun. When you confront him about it, he says it's for personal protection, and as long as you don't trespass on his property, or impede him in anyway, he won't shoot you or your daughter. When you go to the police, they say they can't arrest him for it, but they will put a police car across the street from both of you, just in case. He gets mad at you for tattling to you to the police. You start getting threatening letters from him, saying he is going to kill you and your daughter who is playing in the front yard all the time, completely innocently. He starts buying more weapons (legally) and stashing them in his front yard and buy's a pit-bull attack dog and ties it up in the front yard. What do you do?
The war on Iraq was waged for dishonest reasons. WMD & terrorism were given as the major reasons, and both of these were false.
WMD has yet to be determined, but at this point it looks like you are half right. There are (as yet) no WMD's in Iraq. However, they were there once. He used them. We know they were there because he told us. We sold some of them to him (not relevant here, but a whole different issue). The American, English, French, German, Russia, Polish, Israeli, and Australian intelligence services all thought he had WMD's and were actively trying to get more. The United Nations knew he had them. The question is, where are they? Maybe he had destroyed them, and had none at all in recent years and months; then why didn't he let inspectors in? Why did he stonewall the United Nations and the United States? Why did he ignore Security Council Resolution 1441? Why would he do these things if he had nothing to hide? It doesn't add up. Personally I think that they were shipped to Syria, and there is some (not much public) evidence to support this claim. We will find out eventually.
As far as terrorism goes, Saddam was giving money to Palestinian homicide bombers families, supporting their murder of civilian's in Israel including American civilians (probably Australians too, but I don't know). He had contact with Al Qaeda and extensive ties to Syria and the aforementioned Palestinian terror movement (NOTE: I did not say he was connected to 9/11). He was constantly shooting at US warplanes that were patrolling the No-Fly-Zone in southern Iraq. He openly praised the 9/11 attacks and tried to kill our former President. Saddam was a bad man
If you haven't seen it yet, this is an interesting look at Fahrenheit 9/11. Moore kool-aid drinkers will slam it, but it's interesting to see.
Moore is certainly a good pitchman, and gets lots of people to see his movies, but he spins more than a tilt-a-whirl.
Do you not support the war because you are a pacifist, or some other reason?
My mother is as liberal as they come and she is quite secular; she isn't voting for Bush because (among other reasons) he is "a Evangelical Christian who hates me and everything I stand for" like abortion, women's rights, yadda yadda. She thinks those because he is a very strong believing Christian. She also opposes the war because she agrees with Sen. Kennedy that it was "a war concocted in Texas for political gain" and to help Cheney's Halliburton cronies.
How do I reconcile your view and hers?
I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just trying to figure it out the other side's views.
Also, my mother cannot stand that I'm a conservative (small-c) so I don't agree with Bush on a lot of domestic issues.