I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who knows how to "nurse" those "old" computers. In my opinion a 200MHz P-I is enough for most corporate users. But then, I'm laughed at by most of my peers:-(
I'll give you a little list of machines I run....Just to show you that vintage machines are not bad:
Pentium 166/128Meg RAM running OpenBSD as NAT/Firewall...it is never over 0.1 CPU usage.
Pentium 120/32Meg RAM running Linux with WindowMaker...Rocks as a surfing station
AMD K6-II/333, 384Meg RAM ruuning W2k...My sisters main machine (which I sponsored, she is stil at school). Never had a single complaint about performace
And finally my sweetheart: Pentium Pro 200/256Meg RAM running W2K...Granted with Voodoo2 Card...Runs Halflife, Quake and Unreal like a charm. Return to castle wolfenstein is horrible, but I knew that when buying the game.
I really got sick seeing all these people dissing 400MHz machines. I don't know what they are running, but a 400MHz machines should at least last 3 years in a corporate environment. A well configured Windows (that is not the default unfortunatley) can be stable and last a long time. I myself am a BSD guy:-)
Oh and I love your nick..however I'm more of an Audi guy (Drive a TT myself)
Actually the guy doing the "Ask Slashdot" is insane considering a 400MHz Pentium obsolete. In an office environment it's plainly stupid to say that. Heck, I develop Java on a 400MHz and provided it has enough RAM I don't see any performance problems.
This guy is either going heavy 3D, or something like that...or he has quite a strange concept of "obsolete". Add some RAM to those machine be happy with them.
*sight* People don't know how to take care of computers anymore:-(
Okay, tell me how to build a laptop... I build my own systems too, don't worry, it just happens that I have 2 laptops and one OEM system that I got real cheap because of work. (Of course, there is nothing much left of original hardware except the motherboard and the CPU *grin*) But honestly, dear AC, look around and tell me how many people build their own systems and then look around and tell me how many people just buy an OEM computer that certainly has those ugly stickers. I actually am pretty convinced that OEM's *pay* to put those ugly stickers on their machines.
On nearly all machines I owned there was a "Intel Inside" and/or "Microsoft Windows Compatible" sticker. I loathe them, and it is the first thing I do when the machine gets out of the package: remove them. Simple.
It is very strange IMHO that people never remove those stickers for they are butt-ugly.
You really have no clue, do you? Lilo let you specifiy easily what partition to boot, let it be OpenBSD, QNX, Linux or Windows. Yes, I do boot W2K by default. Just edit lilo.conf on your linux partition.
I won't argue NTLOADER is a good loader, it centainly is, but you have to know how it works. I prefer LILO in any way.
I recently reintalled a machine that had a start button overtaken...No program should ever do that because it confuses users.
Next time do 'man lilo.conf' and if you can't get it to work, I'll gladly help.
...is that he didn't use a small Linux distribution. I personally would have taken a minimalist distribution (or NetBSD, but that's another story) and there are plenty to choose from according to linux.org .
The funniest thing for me was RedHat complaining that there was not enough memory (32Meg, come one, isn't that enough to *install*). My favourite "mini" distribution is Peanut Linux . It's the one I use on all my machines, big and small. I have running it on a P120/32Meg RAM with WindowMaker as windowmanager and it runs really smooth (while playing MP3's, in mono however). The installation process never complained a single time about "lack of memory". Ah, the days that 4Meg of RAM was huge and 8Meg of RAM was overkill:-)
This was my 500th post on slashdot. Feel honoured I used it on you;-)
I indeed have been pondering a lot about getting a teacher. I already have got the "information CD", but due to lack of time, I didn't yet have a look at it.
Weirdly enough, many people say to me I have the typical "teacher touch". I don't know yet if it is a compliment.
As for my education (I'm not american and have great trouble understanding the american educational system), I am a "Licentiate in Computer Science". That means 4 years of Univesity. One of the big hurdles for becoming a teacher in my country (Luxembourg) is that you have to be perfect in the two official languages: french and german. French is no problem, but in german I'm an autodidact...and I do make a lot of errors (mainly in written language).
Who said anything about DB programming? I do know how to do that, but my main job is writing components for other coders, putting in place frameworks. I rarely code for the end-user. First because it's not fun, and second because I really am good in what I do. Well, that is what people tell me when using my code.
It's improbable I ever get to see the other side of the fence: I have a full-time job and loans to pay: I can't go back to school to become an engineer. Besides, 4 years of university ought to be enough to have a decent job. Yes, I'm not an engineer, but do I need to? My customers are happy with my work.
Well, I would like to become (and already informed myself) a teacher because I like explaining things. However, teachers are extremely well paid where I live. A beginning teacher makes about 20% more than what I earn for the moment.
Oh, that...and think of the amount of holidays you have:-))
What are you talking about? I am a programmer and I have a Computer Science degree. Okay, I'm not an engineer (because that's a different degree), but saying that programmers are "almost blue-collar" is really underestimating the creativity involved in creating code.
Of coure I plan in becoming a systems architect down the road, but the difference between coding and making the design of an application is that a design is just "pretty pictures" and "pretty definitions". They are needed, but once you get into the nitty-gritty detail, you have to get pretty creative to put out sound, clean and efficient code. Don't diss the programming job as something inferior: I have often more esteem for the programmer that finds a way to do "the impossible" than for the Software Engineer that thought of something impossible and didn't think enough about the practical feasabilty.
Yes, programmers and engineers are different animals, but more on a conceptual level than anything else.
That's the true hacker spirit. I have been offered to go on in project management (which is substantially better paid than analyst/developper), but I just said no. It's not my stuff: give me an editor and a compiler anyday. It's my passion, and *that* is what counts.
Of course I'm just 25 and have no family to support. In a few years I might think different. But right now I'm very happy how it is. Besides, I have to admit that my managers are great guys, nothing "dark" about them.:-)
Yes, you may have a point on not being able to choose your hardware. On the other hand, most computers come with WinModem. It would be great to get them work on Linux, but most of the time it doens't work. So people shell out good money to "replace" it.
I see the ADSL modem in the same light. If it doesn't work well enough for you, put it back in the box and buy something better. You might even be able to sell the USB version to a Windows user. For the record, the P&T has the local monopoly here too, but they gave the choice between different ADSL systems. However the one I needed (wanted) was the most expensive one. I think it is even possible to get the subscription without ADSL "modem", and use your own. Let's say we have a nice telecom monopoly:-) Last time I checked they even had HOW-TO's posted for Linux.
Hmmm, one of the things that is important when running Linux (or BSD for the matter) is that you have to inform yourself well before buying anything. Why didn't you research what works and what not? Honestly, I admit that having a non-working device is part of the "Linux experience" when you're a newbie. I had similar problems with a PCI ISDN card and a USB ISDN "modem". (Both bought for a Windows machine, before I got "enlightened")
I learned my lesson when I switched to ADSL, and simply bought a ADSL to Ethernet "modem". Works great, never looked back (see my journal entry here) Don't forget, sometimes it is preferrable to buy a bit more expensive equipment that will work on many systems because you never know what system you'll be running in the near future.
Oh, and we really should stop using the word "modem" when talking about ISDN or ADSL...They're not modems.
And now the offtopic part: You get laid at 16? Damnit, I'm 25 and I'm nearly never getting laid:-( Enjoy it man, abstinence is hell.
Try running the original SimCity for DOS. It will start, but the character set is horribly broken: you can't read a thing.
I don't call that backward compatible.:-)
Well, even if offtopic, I found it interesting.
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Lunar Power
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Thank you for the futher detail. I'll take those kind of tires in consideration next time I buy a "normal" car. I just checked the Goodyears available for my car: none of the kind. (I usually buy Goodyear because they have a factory and a test-track in my country...have to help local economy/employment:-))
I suppose however that you're right: they are for people who do 30k miles a year (they exist, I do know some people like that), and then the recommended 2 years I cited still apply. I think however that most people are better off with lower-mileage tires that have a better grip. Most people are bad drivers (including me). Well, at least you proved me wrong. Besides, what's about cost: Z rated tires are usually above 100$, so I don't even dare to complain anymore. It's the price to pay for having a fast car;-)
Yes, indeed....quite OT..
on
Lunar Power
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· Score: 1
The site is quite interesting, but even after surfing quite some while I didn't see any mileage ratings. Yes, I did look at the P and Q rated tires. Would you mind to give me a pointer? How do these high-mileage tires perform anyway if you don't live in a hot, not-much rainy country? I mean, grip is very important in a country like mine that regularly has snow and rain. Actually I have two sets of tires: one Z rated for the summer (yes my car *needs* that) and H rated for the winter (I just have to keep calm). My estimation of 30000km wasn't even based on my current car, but normal car I had before (Audi 80, 1987...), which is neither sporty nor needs exotic tires. I'm still not convinced that choosing a 70000mile tire is a good choice, it sounds dangerous to me. Considering my current mileage, I would only need to buy tires once in 7 years. Rubber doesn't last well 7 years long, and a lot can happen in 7 years.
Where do your buy your tires? Honestly, from my experience tires last about 30000 km, that is 18750 miles. When having a bit more sporty car, it's much much less... (I learned that the hard way) Motorcylce tires? Even worse: 6000km, max.... Besides, did you know that road security experts say that a two year old tire should be replaced, whatever the profile-depth is.
Perhaps SUV tires last longer, I don't know. It's perhaps about that kind of cars you talk, but surely not about the regular Honda Civic, VW Golf or Ford Focus.
I depends how you see it: I personally am not a self-marketing monster. Actually I'm really bad at selling myself, because I just keep my mouth shut and clean up behind those that do "dumb things".
The problem is that many people see "computer scientists" as theorists. Yes, that is true: our education has quite some theoretical background, but because of exactly that theoretical background we are able to adapt very very fast to any new environment. I program Java for a living, which is not a great archievement, (I'm not a career-man) and anyone taking a three week crashcourse in Java can do my job, yet I am in some way more valuable: next project is C++? No problem, 2 days and I'm up and running. I want to see that done by the guy that got his three week Java crash course. A complete career change doing System Administration? (which I do as a hobby anyway), no problem...Give me some time to read the man pages and I'm ready. Yes, I'm not a die hard expert in every domain, but I sure know how to assimilate a new environment. It's mainly about being able to adapt, and I know many companies value that more than paying a lesser salary.
Besides, many of the "I learnt on the fly" tech-guys are out of a job now, and I still have mine. Only those that learnt on the fly and that have at least 5 years experience are hired nowadays. The times that one could say "I know computers" and only be able to make some VB scripts in Excel are over. That's one of the positive sides of the dot-bomb crash:-)
On the other hand, if you learn what "persists" through time
Strangely enough is this the reason why I chose to study Computer Science. In computer science they don't teach you how to admin a W2K server or a Unix server, they teach you the background of how things work. This is exactly how it should be.... Unfortunately many people in IT do not have this background, and sometimes I meet people who did just the same study as you that think to know everything but alas are on the wrong road. This is no personal insult, you may be the exception that confirms the rule:-)
LOL....No I currently have no site about sharks. I plan to put my personal page someday on my ADSL server, but that is when I got the time to make a full review of the existing pages (on my ISP's server).
However thanks for the concern...;-)
Besides, slashdotting woudn't be aproblem: that would be exactly two days that your DSL connection would be busted and you'd have to take that as a honor for being posted on slashdot (which is very unlikely to happen anyday soon to me.)
Well, it's not a good reason. Imagine I run a small website on my own machine (let's say a little site about sharks with a few pics and some info). This site is small, for non-commercial use and is not likely ever to attract a huge amount of visitors. This is what I can personal use.
A company on the other hand is going to advertise it's URL heavily (it is a way of marketing and make bussinees), with as a probable result of very high bandwith usage.
I see no need why my little amateur-shark page coudn't be hosted by my own machine on DSL, for it would be sufficient and not harming bandwith usage. For a company I can understand: they expect a return of investement on their website and would eat DSL bandwith for breakfast.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who knows how to "nurse" those "old" computers. In my opinion a 200MHz P-I is enough for most corporate users. But then, I'm laughed at by most of my peers :-(
- Pentium 166/128Meg RAM running OpenBSD as NAT/Firewall...it is never over 0.1 CPU usage.
- Pentium 120/32Meg RAM running Linux with WindowMaker...Rocks as a surfing station
- AMD K6-II/333, 384Meg RAM ruuning W2k...My sisters main machine (which I sponsored, she is stil at school). Never had a single complaint about performace
- And finally my sweetheart: Pentium Pro 200/256Meg RAM running W2K...Granted with Voodoo2 Card...Runs Halflife, Quake and Unreal like a charm. Return to castle wolfenstein is horrible, but I knew that when buying the game.
I really got sick seeing all these people dissing 400MHz machines. I don't know what they are running, but a 400MHz machines should at least last 3 years in a corporate environment. A well configured Windows (that is not the default unfortunatley) can be stable and last a long time. I myself am a BSD guyOh and I love your nick..however I'm more of an Audi guy (Drive a TT myself)
This guy is either going heavy 3D, or something like that...or he has quite a strange concept of "obsolete". Add some RAM to those machine be happy with them.
*sight* People don't know how to take care of computers anymore :-(
I actually think that bun-bun would make a kick-ass mascot for any OS.
Okay, tell me how to build a laptop... I build my own systems too, don't worry, it just happens that I have 2 laptops and one OEM system that I got real cheap because of work. (Of course, there is nothing much left of original hardware except the motherboard and the CPU *grin*)
But honestly, dear AC, look around and tell me how many people build their own systems and then look around and tell me how many people just buy an OEM computer that certainly has those ugly stickers. I actually am pretty convinced that OEM's *pay* to put those ugly stickers on their machines.
On nearly all machines I owned there was a "Intel Inside" and/or "Microsoft Windows Compatible" sticker. I loathe them, and it is the first thing I do when the machine gets out of the package: remove them. Simple.
It is very strange IMHO that people never remove those stickers for they are butt-ugly.
I won't argue NTLOADER is a good loader, it centainly is, but you have to know how it works. I prefer LILO in any way.
I recently reintalled a machine that had a start button overtaken...No program should ever do that because it confuses users.
Next time do 'man lilo.conf' and if you can't get it to work, I'll gladly help.
The funniest thing for me was RedHat complaining that there was not enough memory (32Meg, come one, isn't that enough to *install*). My favourite "mini" distribution is Peanut Linux . It's the one I use on all my machines, big and small. I have running it on a P120/32Meg RAM with WindowMaker as windowmanager and it runs really smooth (while playing MP3's, in mono however). The installation process never complained a single time about "lack of memory". :-)
Ah, the days that 4Meg of RAM was huge and 8Meg of RAM was overkill
This was my 500th post on slashdot. Feel honoured I used it on you ;-)
Yeah, so have I...and I thank God everyday that someone else is in charge for maintenance and user-support.
Weirdly enough, many people say to me I have the typical "teacher touch". I don't know yet if it is a compliment.
As for my education (I'm not american and have great trouble understanding the american educational system), I am a "Licentiate in Computer Science". That means 4 years of Univesity. One of the big hurdles for becoming a teacher in my country (Luxembourg) is that you have to be perfect in the two official languages: french and german. French is no problem, but in german I'm an autodidact...and I do make a lot of errors (mainly in written language).
Who said anything about DB programming? I do know how to do that, but my main job is writing components for other coders, putting in place frameworks. I rarely code for the end-user. First because it's not fun, and second because I really am good in what I do. Well, that is what people tell me when using my code.
It's improbable I ever get to see the other side of the fence: I have a full-time job and loans to pay: I can't go back to school to become an engineer. Besides, 4 years of university ought to be enough to have a decent job. Yes, I'm not an engineer, but do I need to? My customers are happy with my work.
Well, I would like to become (and already informed myself) a teacher because I like explaining things. However, teachers are extremely well paid where I live. A beginning teacher makes about 20% more than what I earn for the moment. :-))
Oh, that...and think of the amount of holidays you have
Of coure I plan in becoming a systems architect down the road, but the difference between coding and making the design of an application is that a design is just "pretty pictures" and "pretty definitions". They are needed, but once you get into the nitty-gritty detail, you have to get pretty creative to put out sound, clean and efficient code. Don't diss the programming job as something inferior: I have often more esteem for the programmer that finds a way to do "the impossible" than for the Software Engineer that thought of something impossible and didn't think enough about the practical feasabilty.
Yes, programmers and engineers are different animals, but more on a conceptual level than anything else.
Of course I'm just 25 and have no family to support. In a few years I might think different. But right now I'm very happy how it is. Besides, I have to admit that my managers are great guys, nothing "dark" about them. :-)
I see the ADSL modem in the same light. If it doesn't work well enough for you, put it back in the box and buy something better. You might even be able to sell the USB version to a Windows user.
For the record, the P&T has the local monopoly here too, but they gave the choice between different ADSL systems. However the one I needed (wanted) was the most expensive one. I think it is even possible to get the subscription without ADSL "modem", and use your own. Let's say we have a nice telecom monopoly
Well, I spend way too much for computer parts ;-)
I learned my lesson when I switched to ADSL, and simply bought a ADSL to Ethernet "modem". Works great, never looked back (see my journal entry here) Don't forget, sometimes it is preferrable to buy a bit more expensive equipment that will work on many systems because you never know what system you'll be running in the near future.
Oh, and we really should stop using the word "modem" when talking about ISDN or ADSL...They're not modems.
And now the offtopic part: You get laid at 16? Damnit, I'm 25 and I'm nearly never getting laid :-( Enjoy it man, abstinence is hell.
Try running the original SimCity for DOS. It will start, but the character set is horribly broken: you can't read a thing. :-)
I don't call that backward compatible.
I suppose however that you're right: they are for people who do 30k miles a year (they exist, I do know some people like that), and then the recommended 2 years I cited still apply. I think however that most people are better off with lower-mileage tires that have a better grip. Most people are bad drivers (including me). ;-)
Well, at least you proved me wrong. Besides, what's about cost: Z rated tires are usually above 100$, so I don't even dare to complain anymore. It's the price to pay for having a fast car
The site is quite interesting, but even after surfing quite some while I didn't see any mileage ratings. Yes, I did look at the P and Q rated tires. Would you mind to give me a pointer?
How do these high-mileage tires perform anyway if you don't live in a hot, not-much rainy country? I mean, grip is very important in a country like mine that regularly has snow and rain. Actually I have two sets of tires: one Z rated for the summer (yes my car *needs* that) and H rated for the winter (I just have to keep calm).
My estimation of 30000km wasn't even based on my current car, but normal car I had before (Audi 80, 1987...), which is neither sporty nor needs exotic tires. I'm still not convinced that choosing a 70000mile tire is a good choice, it sounds dangerous to me. Considering my current mileage, I would only need to buy tires once in 7 years. Rubber doesn't last well 7 years long, and a lot can happen in 7 years.
Where do your buy your tires? Honestly, from my experience tires last about 30000 km, that is 18750 miles. When having a bit more sporty car, it's much much less... (I learned that the hard way) Motorcylce tires? Even worse: 6000km, max.... Besides, did you know that road security experts say that a two year old tire should be replaced, whatever the profile-depth is.
Perhaps SUV tires last longer, I don't know. It's perhaps about that kind of cars you talk, but surely not about the regular Honda Civic, VW Golf or Ford Focus.
The problem is that many people see "computer scientists" as theorists. Yes, that is true: our education has quite some theoretical background, but because of exactly that theoretical background we are able to adapt very very fast to any new environment. I program Java for a living, which is not a great archievement, (I'm not a career-man) and anyone taking a three week crashcourse in Java can do my job, yet I am in some way more valuable: next project is C++? No problem, 2 days and I'm up and running. I want to see that done by the guy that got his three week Java crash course. A complete career change doing System Administration? (which I do as a hobby anyway), no problem...Give me some time to read the man pages and I'm ready. Yes, I'm not a die hard expert in every domain, but I sure know how to assimilate a new environment. It's mainly about being able to adapt, and I know many companies value that more than paying a lesser salary.
Besides, many of the "I learnt on the fly" tech-guys are out of a job now, and I still have mine. Only those that learnt on the fly and that have at least 5 years experience are hired nowadays. The times that one could say "I know computers" and only be able to make some VB scripts in Excel are over. That's one of the positive sides of the dot-bomb crash :-)
Strangely enough is this the reason why I chose to study Computer Science. In computer science they don't teach you how to admin a W2K server or a Unix server, they teach you the background of how things work. This is exactly how it should be.... Unfortunately many people in IT do not have this background, and sometimes I meet people who did just the same study as you that think to know everything but alas are on the wrong road. This is no personal insult, you may be the exception that confirms the rule :-)
However thanks for the concern...
Besides, slashdotting woudn't be aproblem: that would be exactly two days that your DSL connection would be busted and you'd have to take that as a honor for being posted on slashdot (which is very unlikely to happen anyday soon to me.)
This site is small, for non-commercial use and is not likely ever to attract a huge amount of visitors. This is what I can personal use.
A company on the other hand is going to advertise it's URL heavily (it is a way of marketing and make bussinees), with as a probable result of very high bandwith usage.
I see no need why my little amateur-shark page coudn't be hosted by my own machine on DSL, for it would be sufficient and not harming bandwith usage. For a company I can understand: they expect a return of investement on their website and would eat DSL bandwith for breakfast.