But look, the iBook is a consumer notebook. Do you want to trade speed for price and battery life? Why didn't you get a TiBook instead then?
Because a $1400 computer should offer fast, responsive web browsing and a snappy interface. You shouldn't have to buy a $2500 machine just to have a portable with decent speed.
Besides, based on the article, that (upgrading to a TiBook) would not solve the problem anyway - apparently the problem is still there, even with an 800mhz G4!
Finally, finally Slashdot has posted an article about this!
With all the praise heaped on OS X, everyone seems to forget to mention how slow it really is. They are right - it is really nice. But it is SO SLOW!
Due in large part to positive comments I read on Slashdot, I purchased an Apple iBook with OS 9/X, however, I wasn't interested in 9. I only wanted to use X.
Took it home, very excited to play with my new toy. Up comes the "Welcome to your new Mac, please register" window. It's all pretty and aqua-like. I click in one of the fields to enter my name and (this is not a joke) the computer was already lagging! I couldn't believe it. When I clicked to pop down widget for "state" there again was a noticeable lag which continued as I went through the fields! Keep in mind, this is just the "welcome" screen - I haven't even started using the computer yet.
And yes, before you ask, this computer had 640 MB of RAM, so that wasn't the problem.
The situation did not improve as I began to install the applications I wanted to use. Dragging and resizing windows is an exercise in frustration. Switching between browser windows or applications is very slow. The bundled mail.app has a noticeable lag when I switch to a different email message in the preview pane. (Even a crummy client like Outlook is lightning fast when switching between locally stored messages.) Opening the system preferences window takes 5-10 seconds.
I think one of the greatest inventions is the wheel mouse. When I'm reading Usenet or web pages, I like to use the wheel to quickly page up or down. On even a 'slow' wintel, 400mhz let's say, this is a very smooth process. A few clicks of the wheel and the screen smoothly scrolls to the bottom. On OS X is sputters and lags, and takes 3 to 4 times as long to reach my destination. It's not just the wheel mouse, if you just click and hold the window scroll arrow there is the same problem.
Apple says the G3/G4 is suppposed to be far faster per mhz than Wintel, and I bought into that when I bought the iBook. However it simply IS NOT TRUE. In fact, I feel the G3 is actually SLOWER than a PIII of the same clockspeed. Keep in mind you can buy a Wintel with double the clock for the same price and you have an ugly situation.
After a while, I just couldn't take it anymore - it was constant frustration everytime I booted up. It was just not acceptable, especially considering what I paid for the computer. For what I paid, I could have bought a 1 ghz AMD laptop, which I can assure you, does not lag in the slightest when running Windows 2000.
I ended up selling it, just 8 weeks after I bought it, and I don't miss it. Right now I'm shopping for it's replacement.
You don't hear any Mac users warning you about this - instead, they recommend that you purchase the computer! I'm under the impression that either they just don't realize how much faster Windows/Linux is (maybe they haven't used x86 in a few years) or maybe they are just in denial as a way of trying to defend the platform that they love. (i.e. they know it's very slow, but deny it when asked because they want to preserve a favorable opinion about Macs).
This is the dirty little secret that no one wants to admit. There is a thread on MacSlash about how attractive the Mac is supposed to be for Java development. I tried some java programs like Jedit and NetBeans and they ran at about 1/2 to 1/3 of the speed of running them on Wintel.
Hello! The emperor has no clothes! It's okay to say so!
This is somewhat unrelated, but why do I need a voice line to get DSL? In southern california, anyway, I can't order DSL without also having a voice line/voice number at that residence.
This totally defeats the purpose of broadband - Between my cellular and net2phone type apps, I'd be all set - except I can't get broadband without having a landline it seems.
Is there anyway around this? Does everyone with DSL also have a voice number, or is it just this area?
Oh, I tried OS X. I was very impressed, BUT: For one thing, ColdFusion does not run on OS X right now. It was also PAINFULLY SLOW. (I had a 500mhz iBook). Too bad because I actually liked it alot, but I ended up selling the computer. Maybe 10.2 will fix some of those issues, but I just couldn't wait anymore.
I doubt OS X will get much faster on existing hardware, anyway. Apple's "slowness" problem will just be solved when new, faster hardware comes out, not by better programming.
Most people who run NT/Server do so because of IIS, and it's ease of config. (let's not start a flame war here...) If you want Apache, use UNIX. There's no point is using a had to config OS (nt/5.0) if you aren't trying to use an easy to config HTTP server (iis/5.0).
Uh-uh. I run Apache on Windows 2000. It allow me to have a "mini server" on my laptop with Apache, PHP, ColdFusion and various databases, AS WELL AS my favorite development tools like Homesite, Dreamweaver, and Photoshop, not to mention the browser (IE) that 90% of people will be using to access the sites I develop.
ColdFusion is certainly functional, but not very robust.
Again, blatant mudslinging with no real facts - "not very robust" in what way?
Put it this way, if they were using ColdFusion, your HTML guys could have written it themselves, rather than relying on an admin (you) to provide them with a custom tag!
What a crappy 'comparison'. I'm no IIS fan (an understatement), but IIS's 'game' is ease of installation and administration.
Look, the myth that Apache is harder to setup than IIS is simply not true.
And lest you think I'm biased, I'm one of those guys that is usually complaining - "open source tool xyz is great, but why is there no GUI setup tool?" - and even I think Apache is easier to setup and configure than IIS!
Especially on Windows, Apache is SO easy to run. You can download the latest and run the installer and have it running in 10 minutes. It has a GUI setup that takes care of the basics. Afterwards, you can easily edit the.conf file - it's all nice and commented and real straightforward.
After you've got it running, you can start/stop the service via a tray applet or using some shortcuts it puts in the Start menu. Couldn't be easier. IIS on the other hand is a complete maze of dialogs.
Jeez, from reading the posts on Slashdot, you'd think the main reason to learn PHP would be so you can mock 'simpler' languages. Look how cool I am, I know Perl DOOD! Well, some of us enjoy writing in a straightforward, yet powerful language that allows us to author web applications much faster than other languages.
What's not to like about ColdFusion? It even runs on your precious Linux, Solaris, NT, and several Unices. Your developers can code once and it will run on any platform.
Would you run Amazon.com on ColdFusion? Probably not. But 99% of people aren't building Amazon.com, are they?
I'd encourage you to:
1. Grow up;
2. Take a look at the evaluation version of ColdFusion server, show it to your HTML people and watch them smile as they realize that there IS a lanaguage you don't have to be a computer science major to understand. Yes, it's $1,200. That's 8-10 hours of billable time for a consulting firm. You'll save that much time on the FIRST job you do.
Why does the Ximian installer overwrite the Gnome "foot" menu items that came with my distribution?
As a new user, this was very frustrating, because I had begun using a few of those programs, but was unable to access them after the Ximian install because I did not know the command line phrase to start them. Without the menu I was lost.
Can't you just append your stuff to the menus... maybe in a submenu called "Ximian"?
Fine... Someone's going to step up and write drivers for Linux... and that's not going to be the issue...
Uh, don't count on it. I have a Dell Inspiron with a Winmodem that doesn't work in Linux. I'm still waiting for someone to "step up and right a driver"... 3 years later.
About as much as bringing WinMODEM's spelt the end of Linux dialup. As far as I could tell it didn't make any impact, ditto.
WHAT are you talking about? WinModems are a HUGE problem for Linux. Why? Because almost every laptop comes with a Winmodem built in.
The first thing you find when you install Linux is that suddenly you lose your modem. So it's off to CompUSA in search of one of the few remaining hardware-based PCMCIA modems. And that is a big impact!
How many people have tried Linux only to be turned away because they couldn't get a network connection? I know, because I was one of them.
Re:Titanium is also very flexible.
on
The Sexiest Metal
·
· Score: 1
Decent quality ones?
Absolutely. 75% of the people on the team I used to ride with had broken a steel frame at one time or another. They just wear out after a while.
I have no problem with legislation banning talking on cellular phones while driving - as long as legislation is passed that prohibits driving while smoking as well.
How often do you see someone driving along, one-handed, with a hand holding a cigarette out the window, or worse, using both hands to light one up?
Smoking while driving with kids in the car ought to be a crime, if it's not already.
The killer on the Treo is that on Cingular (in California, at least) making a data call to an outside ISP is $0.15 a minute and $4.95 a month to get data turned on. Ouch!
Has anyone used the Treo with Cingular as the "ISP", which is how their other phones work? If used that way, then it would just 'cost' airtime, instead of $0.15 a minute. But Handspring previously said that it will NOT work that way...
Does Debian work on the iBook2 without screwing around? By "work" I mean working sound, airport, modem, and ethernet without having to download and/or compile a kernel or look up how-to's and type command line mumbo-jumbo. 3 ISOs is a big download if I'm just setting myself up for a disappointment. Mandrake 8.2 is almost there but some stuff still doesn't work.
iTunes takes 30-40% of the CPU on my 500mhz macintosh. A common MP3 player on Windows (WinAmp) takes around 4% of a PIII 500.
Something is wrong with that picture. Obviously ripping and encoding is going to be CPU intensive - playback should not be. One of the first things I erased from my iBook was iTunes, for exactly this reason.
iTunes is not exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
The article basically says that YDL 2.2 is "okay", with quite a few quirks, their configuration tools crash, etc. Why is this considered "acceptable"? Is it wrong to expect more out of what is supposedly a "maintenance release" - shouldn't they have some stuff ironed out by now?
I have $100 just waiting to be donated to the first PPC Linux team that produces something that works properly on my iBook. Seriously. No one seems to want it.
In Yellow Dog 2.1, I followed their Airport setup instructions to the letter, but it does not work. Their "YUP" update tool does not work. Sound did not work. From the way the article reads, it sounds like 2.2 is more of the same, so why bother?
I'm also following the Mandrake 8.2 PPC beta process with much interest. As far as I can tell, there is ONE GUY - Stewart - working on it. He's doing some great things, but frankly, it's clear that he's overwhelmed. For example, my iBook2 cannot get IPs via DHCP over either the built in ethernet or the wireless inteface. Nobody knows why. Modem works, but only after you tweak the timout values in the dialer to be certain values. How would anyone know that? It should be done by the installer if the installation platform is the iBook!
I wish that these folks would work on getting the CORE stuff working, and working well, before they start including 2000 packages on the CDs. I can download Apache, MySQL, and 18 text editors later - right now, I need a working network connection!
The "gold standard", as far as I'm concerned, is RedHat 7.2 on a Dell Inspiron. Everything worked, and I mean EVERYTHING. No tweaking, no kernel upgrade, no command line garbage. Ethernet, video, mouse, keyboard, everything. So that's what I expect, but no PPC vendor has delivered it yet.
Given the very limited hardware a PPC vendor must support, I just expect it to work. It doesn't.
Slashdot Mirror
Because a $1400 computer should offer fast, responsive web browsing and a snappy interface. You shouldn't have to buy a $2500 machine just to have a portable with decent speed.
Besides, based on the article, that (upgrading to a TiBook) would not solve the problem anyway - apparently the problem is still there, even with an 800mhz G4!
With all the praise heaped on OS X, everyone seems to forget to mention how slow it really is. They are right - it is really nice. But it is SO SLOW!
Due in large part to positive comments I read on Slashdot, I purchased an Apple iBook with OS 9/X, however, I wasn't interested in 9. I only wanted to use X.
Took it home, very excited to play with my new toy. Up comes the "Welcome to your new Mac, please register" window. It's all pretty and aqua-like. I click in one of the fields to enter my name and (this is not a joke) the computer was already lagging! I couldn't believe it. When I clicked to pop down widget for "state" there again was a noticeable lag which continued as I went through the fields! Keep in mind, this is just the "welcome" screen - I haven't even started using the computer yet.
And yes, before you ask, this computer had 640 MB of RAM, so that wasn't the problem.
The situation did not improve as I began to install the applications I wanted to use. Dragging and resizing windows is an exercise in frustration. Switching between browser windows or applications is very slow. The bundled mail.app has a noticeable lag when I switch to a different email message in the preview pane. (Even a crummy client like Outlook is lightning fast when switching between locally stored messages.) Opening the system preferences window takes 5-10 seconds.
I think one of the greatest inventions is the wheel mouse. When I'm reading Usenet or web pages, I like to use the wheel to quickly page up or down. On even a 'slow' wintel, 400mhz let's say, this is a very smooth process. A few clicks of the wheel and the screen smoothly scrolls to the bottom. On OS X is sputters and lags, and takes 3 to 4 times as long to reach my destination. It's not just the wheel mouse, if you just click and hold the window scroll arrow there is the same problem.
Apple says the G3/G4 is suppposed to be far faster per mhz than Wintel, and I bought into that when I bought the iBook. However it simply IS NOT TRUE. In fact, I feel the G3 is actually SLOWER than a PIII of the same clockspeed. Keep in mind you can buy a Wintel with double the clock for the same price and you have an ugly situation.
After a while, I just couldn't take it anymore - it was constant frustration everytime I booted up. It was just not acceptable, especially considering what I paid for the computer. For what I paid, I could have bought a 1 ghz AMD laptop, which I can assure you, does not lag in the slightest when running Windows 2000.
I ended up selling it, just 8 weeks after I bought it, and I don't miss it. Right now I'm shopping for it's replacement.
You don't hear any Mac users warning you about this - instead, they recommend that you purchase the computer! I'm under the impression that either they just don't realize how much faster Windows/Linux is (maybe they haven't used x86 in a few years) or maybe they are just in denial as a way of trying to defend the platform that they love. (i.e. they know it's very slow, but deny it when asked because they want to preserve a favorable opinion about Macs).
This is the dirty little secret that no one wants to admit. There is a thread on MacSlash about how attractive the Mac is supposed to be for Java development. I tried some java programs like Jedit and NetBeans and they ran at about 1/2 to 1/3 of the speed of running them on Wintel.
Hello! The emperor has no clothes! It's okay to say so!
Well, you already have a phone LINE... but need you have voice service ON that line? Does anyone sell just data?
This totally defeats the purpose of broadband - Between my cellular and net2phone type apps, I'd be all set - except I can't get broadband without having a landline it seems.
Is there anyway around this? Does everyone with DSL also have a voice number, or is it just this area?
I doubt OS X will get much faster on existing hardware, anyway. Apple's "slowness" problem will just be solved when new, faster hardware comes out, not by better programming.
Uh-uh. I run Apache on Windows 2000. It allow me to have a "mini server" on my laptop with Apache, PHP, ColdFusion and various databases, AS WELL AS my favorite development tools like Homesite, Dreamweaver, and Photoshop, not to mention the browser (IE) that 90% of people will be using to access the sites I develop.
I cannot do this on Unix.
Again, blatant mudslinging with no real facts - "not very robust" in what way?
Put it this way, if they were using ColdFusion, your HTML guys could have written it themselves, rather than relying on an admin (you) to provide them with a custom tag!
Look, the myth that Apache is harder to setup than IIS is simply not true.
And lest you think I'm biased, I'm one of those guys that is usually complaining - "open source tool xyz is great, but why is there no GUI setup tool?" - and even I think Apache is easier to setup and configure than IIS!
Especially on Windows, Apache is SO easy to run. You can download the latest and run the installer and have it running in 10 minutes. It has a GUI setup that takes care of the basics. Afterwards, you can easily edit the .conf file - it's all nice and commented and real straightforward.
After you've got it running, you can start/stop the service via a tray applet or using some shortcuts it puts in the Start menu. Couldn't be easier. IIS on the other hand is a complete maze of dialogs.
What's not to like about ColdFusion? It even runs on your precious Linux, Solaris, NT, and several Unices. Your developers can code once and it will run on any platform.
Would you run Amazon.com on ColdFusion? Probably not. But 99% of people aren't building Amazon.com, are they?
I'd encourage you to:
1. Grow up;
2. Take a look at the evaluation version of ColdFusion server, show it to your HTML people and watch them smile as they realize that there IS a lanaguage you don't have to be a computer science major to understand. Yes, it's $1,200. That's 8-10 hours of billable time for a consulting firm. You'll save that much time on the FIRST job you do.
As a new user, this was very frustrating, because I had begun using a few of those programs, but was unable to access them after the Ximian install because I did not know the command line phrase to start them. Without the menu I was lost.
Can't you just append your stuff to the menus... maybe in a submenu called "Ximian"?
Don't forget the 36 text editors that each basically do the same thing.
Uh, don't count on it. I have a Dell Inspiron with a Winmodem that doesn't work in Linux. I'm still waiting for someone to "step up and right a driver"... 3 years later.
Are Linux laptops out there? Of course they are. Is it a quantity that will even make a DENT in Toshiba's sales when they start using WinWiFI? No.
Especially when they ALL start using WinWiFi.
WHAT are you talking about? WinModems are a HUGE problem for Linux. Why? Because almost every laptop comes with a Winmodem built in.
The first thing you find when you install Linux is that suddenly you lose your modem. So it's off to CompUSA in search of one of the few remaining hardware-based PCMCIA modems. And that is a big impact!
How many people have tried Linux only to be turned away because they couldn't get a network connection? I know, because I was one of them.
Absolutely. 75% of the people on the team I used to ride with had broken a steel frame at one time or another. They just wear out after a while.
Probably because people that spend $4000 on a bicycle aren't very likely to park it in front of the quickie mart while they go inside for beer.
Not for bicycles. Trust me - I've worn out several steel frames. Not from a crash or other damage, but just from "wear".
One day you look at it and find that the steel has cracked - from fatigue.
I always wondered about that... when these people come knocking, who the fuck would let them in?
How often do you see someone driving along, one-handed, with a hand holding a cigarette out the window, or worse, using both hands to light one up?
Smoking while driving with kids in the car ought to be a crime, if it's not already.
Has anyone used the Treo with Cingular as the "ISP", which is how their other phones work? If used that way, then it would just 'cost' airtime, instead of $0.15 a minute. But Handspring previously said that it will NOT work that way...
Like, say, running OS X? Believe me, when OS X is taking half your CPU and iTunes gobbles up another 25%, you notice.
Does Debian work on the iBook2 without screwing around? By "work" I mean working sound, airport, modem, and ethernet without having to download and/or compile a kernel or look up how-to's and type command line mumbo-jumbo. 3 ISOs is a big download if I'm just setting myself up for a disappointment. Mandrake 8.2 is almost there but some stuff still doesn't work.
Something is wrong with that picture. Obviously ripping and encoding is going to be CPU intensive - playback should not be. One of the first things I erased from my iBook was iTunes, for exactly this reason.
iTunes is not exactly the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I have $100 just waiting to be donated to the first PPC Linux team that produces something that works properly on my iBook. Seriously. No one seems to want it.
In Yellow Dog 2.1, I followed their Airport setup instructions to the letter, but it does not work. Their "YUP" update tool does not work. Sound did not work. From the way the article reads, it sounds like 2.2 is more of the same, so why bother?
I'm also following the Mandrake 8.2 PPC beta process with much interest. As far as I can tell, there is ONE GUY - Stewart - working on it. He's doing some great things, but frankly, it's clear that he's overwhelmed. For example, my iBook2 cannot get IPs via DHCP over either the built in ethernet or the wireless inteface. Nobody knows why. Modem works, but only after you tweak the timout values in the dialer to be certain values. How would anyone know that? It should be done by the installer if the installation platform is the iBook!
I wish that these folks would work on getting the CORE stuff working, and working well, before they start including 2000 packages on the CDs. I can download Apache, MySQL, and 18 text editors later - right now, I need a working network connection!
The "gold standard", as far as I'm concerned, is RedHat 7.2 on a Dell Inspiron. Everything worked, and I mean EVERYTHING. No tweaking, no kernel upgrade, no command line garbage. Ethernet, video, mouse, keyboard, everything. So that's what I expect, but no PPC vendor has delivered it yet.
Given the very limited hardware a PPC vendor must support, I just expect it to work. It doesn't.
Well, OS X is quite slow on the iBook while Linux is not. So that might explain part of the reason someone might want to switch.