It's to avoid forwarding addresses that are spoofed.
Any chance you could explain that further and perhaps back up what you say with a link to a security advisory (or perhaps a confirmed bug report or something)? I remember seeing these types of vulnerabilities disclosed some time ago, but I was under the impression that IE and Firefox had fixed these flaws after they initially came to light. I make no claims to have any authoritative knowledge on the issue, however some substantiation would be appreciated if you can provide it.
"Porting to Linux" wasn't the best verbage the AC could have used, but it doesn't quite descend to the level of 'mindless statement'. The fedora developers have worked to make DS for Linux a better product. For example the 1.0 release uses apache + mod_nss instead of the ns-httpd server, and the performance improvement is impressive. Of course the non-Linux platforms for which they produce DS presumably also reap these benefits, but it seems to me that the primary motivation is to make a great Linux product.
the point that they were selling (for LOTS of money) stuff that they didn't write and that all the other distros give away for free
I realize the you think this is philosophically wrong. However to a large extent, this is money that is going to be spent irrespective of whether some other distro will give it away for free or not. Would you rather it go to MS or another commercial software vendor? I realize that small businesses might feel sighted by their change of market focus, but you're always free to use CentOS or any other distro. To their credit, Redhat reinvests (some likely significant portion of) this money back into the OSS community. I think the OSS community would be well served if there were more Linux companies like Redhat. For instance it would be great if Novell would open source eDirectory like RH did with Directory Server.
One client had an existing Debian setup on fairly common PC hardware. They wanted to transition to FC4, after hearing about how great it was....
...At that point I had to tell my client about the problems with Fedora Core 4.
Damn, it would suck to be your client. If it were my client, I would have advised them that "hearing about how great it was" isn't really a valid basis upon which to make business decisions. Secondly, if I'd known about "problems" with a particular disto, I wouldn't wait until the client started bitching to disclose them.
As with all of these discussions about distos, most of the arguments break down into: "I'm not familiar with the particular idiosyncracies of product X, and therefore product X is flawed. However, I am familiar with the particular idiosyncracies of product Y, and therefore product Y rules.
If one setup unattended or semi-unattended installs...Setup your own apt repository...use scripts to spray out updates as needed...Make sure the user's data is stored on network mounts, use LDAP...Kerberos for authentication and management, and enjoy.
Yeah, that does sound pretty easy. I'm sure anyone could do it.:)
Seriously though I do understand your point, and I know that competent sysadmins can implement such solutions effectively. However just because an administrator can do so doesn't mean that it wouldn't be more efficient to use RHN to accomplish the same purpose. Also, it's not a given that every entity that wants to implement Linux has such a competent admin.
It would be like an unreleased movie being nominated for the Oscars.
Your comment is dead on. I'd go so far as to say it's more like if they'd awarded King Kong the best picture Oscar last winter. I'd be shocked if more than a handful of these 'awards' weren't bought and paid for in the early planning stages of this fraud.
Your point is valid, I don't buy your argument. One could just as easily say something like, "My bank couldn't function without the regulations established by dirty politicians and sleazy lobbyists, and the services provided by my city government depend on inept local politicians. However just because I give my money to these scumbags doesn't make me part of the problem."
The GP wasn't making a point about our dependence on proprietary technologies, but rather about how ideals aren't something like a comfortable jacket that one puts on or takes off on a whim.
Redhat tends to be the whipping boy of the Linux enthusiasts on Slashdot
I agree, but one must keep in mind that this says far more about the character and maturity of Linux enthusiasts on Slashdot than it does about the RedHat distro.
Sorry to hear about your job troubles. I've worked at places where sysadmins were similarly regarded. Hopefully the Karma gods will soon bestow upon you a better gig than you had before.
I just posted a comment saying your posts were civil, but I hadn't read this comment at that point. Your replies to me were certainly civil, but perhaps you might have been well served by including your 'grumpy' disclaimer on the above post as well. There is a clear tone of hostility in your reply the the GP, and although the GP criticized your argument I didn't detect the same hostility you showed. I don't mean to cast the first (or second) stone though. I've said things when I was grumpy that would make your post look like a compliment.:)
Anyway, back to being (somewhat) on topic...
I'd like to hear from *one* person who's purchased RHEL because they actually need the support *and* has used it.
It depends on what you mean by support. If you mean having to call RH to have them (for instance) figure out how you botched your sendmail.mc, then I've never used that kind of support. I've also never used that form of support from MS, Apple, or any other OS vendor. However if you mean support in the sense of utilizing automatic updates or other features of RHN (for instance), then I've certainly had experiences where that was a significant factor in choosing to purchase RHEL. In this context the support was obviously in fact needed and used. I know that other distros provide a similar level of 'support' at a lower cost (or for free), but that doesn't imply that RHEL can never be the most appropriate choice of distro. I'm glad that RedHat has had success in their target market because they've continued to make extensive contributions to the OSS community.
No problem. Your posts haven't breached the borders of civility, and no offense was taken. In fact I understand your frustrations completely. I've encountered similar hassles with many a RedHat/Fedora installation. To be fair though I've also encountered similar bothers in SuSE, Debian, and other distros. I guess the general rule is that the more familiar I am with a distro, the less bothered I am by its particular idiosyncrasies.
No, it wasn't free to upgrade. I seem to recall there being some trivial discount...
My bad then. I was pretty sure that one of my friends who'd paid the $60/year fee before they announced the EOL had been offered the free upgrade to RHEL-WS. He happens to work at a university, so now he pays $25/year instead of $60. Needless to say he didn't feel as though he'd been screwed over, but it's certainly understandable that others did.
Perl 5.8 is installed, but apparently Time::HiRes is not
This is off-topic now, but Time::HiRes is an RHEL provided package. Try "# up2date perl-Time-HiRes".
Screw you, your year of support ends in April even if you just paid for a year a couple of months earlier. Feel free to buy our overpriced piece of crap...
I don't remember it being exactly like that. Although they clearly dropped support for RH9 in April, I thought they continued to honor the support agreements for their full terms if you upgraded to RHEL at no extra cost. I could be remembering things incorrectly though.
In any event RedHat seems to be doing OK selling their overpriced piece of crap version.
Global Warming is having a direct and measurable impact on the endangered pirate population
No no no, you've got it all wrong. It is the decrease in the number of pirates that is causing global warming. Don't you understand the difference between cause and effect?
Considering the the lackluster reception of the original X-box in Japan, I think the figures might need to be adjusted to something like 3/6/1 for Europe, America, and Japan (resp.). One never knows though.
I didn't care so much for the movie either, but the book is a great work of historical fiction IMO. I read it in high school over 20 years ago, and I remember thinking that it taught me as much about the civil war / reconstruction period as any history book ever did.
I've seen many statements in this and other discussions that outright declare or at least imply that the GC is solidly in 'third place' in the three man race between GC, PS2, and Xbox. Now clearly the PS2 is in first place, but the last 'real' figures I recall seeing (a very long time ago) seemed to indicate that the race for 2nd between GC and Xbox was about even. Can anyone cite a reputable reference that can give an accurate picture of how things stand today? Preferably any such citation would be for worldwide sales figures (as opposed to US only figures). It's not that sales figures have anything to do with game/system quality and value, but I'm curious as to whether those who make such claims have a factual basis upon which to make them (or not). Such claims seem to be made frequently, but I don't recall seeing any recent authoritative citation.
He [Linus] believes that what he [Tridge] did wrong was knowingly break up the "agreement" that Linus and McVoy had only to see the protocol.
How can Tridge break an agreement between Linus and McVoy? I can see how Tridge could break an agreement between Tridge and Linus or between Tridge and McVoy. If I "agree" to let you sleep with my girlfriend, but she's not into it, has she broken our agreement?
Trigdell did not intend on making a compatible client (or any software for that matter).
This sort of contention ought only to be made if one has factual references upon which to support it. I understand that you are referencing Linus' arguments, and not making the arguments yourself. I'm just addressing them directly (although I happen to think they have already been addressed quite thoroughly).
I personally think that attempting to assign blame is akin to asking the wrong question. Not every story has a Hollywood ending, and if we just accept that we can pick up the pieces and move along. In fact I'm sure that many if not most of those talented enough to make contributions to kernel development have done just that (including of course, Linus). To conclude I again quote, "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition."
Slashdot Mirror
It's to avoid forwarding addresses that are spoofed.
Any chance you could explain that further and perhaps back up what you say with a link to a security advisory (or perhaps a confirmed bug report or something)? I remember seeing these types of vulnerabilities disclosed some time ago, but I was under the impression that IE and Firefox had fixed these flaws after they initially came to light. I make no claims to have any authoritative knowledge on the issue, however some substantiation would be appreciated if you can provide it.
From the 1.0 release announcement page:
This wasn't the case with the prior version, but AFAIK Redhat has now made good on their promise to open source the entire product.
"Porting to Linux" wasn't the best verbage the AC could have used, but it doesn't quite descend to the level of 'mindless statement'. The fedora developers have worked to make DS for Linux a better product. For example the 1.0 release uses apache + mod_nss instead of the ns-httpd server, and the performance improvement is impressive. Of course the non-Linux platforms for which they produce DS presumably also reap these benefits, but it seems to me that the primary motivation is to make a great Linux product.
I'm surprised no one else has posted this already.
The related article is here.
We have the exact same thing in the US except that it's called the FCC.
the point that they were selling (for LOTS of money) stuff that they didn't write and that all the other distros give away for free
I realize the you think this is philosophically wrong. However to a large extent, this is money that is going to be spent irrespective of whether some other distro will give it away for free or not. Would you rather it go to MS or another commercial software vendor? I realize that small businesses might feel sighted by their change of market focus, but you're always free to use CentOS or any other distro. To their credit, Redhat reinvests (some likely significant portion of) this money back into the OSS community. I think the OSS community would be well served if there were more Linux companies like Redhat. For instance it would be great if Novell would open source eDirectory like RH did with Directory Server.
Unlike you, I listen to my clients. If they suggest something, and it sounds reasonable...then I will consider it.
Again, I feel bad for your clients if you feel that switching distros because someone heard that it was great is 'reasonable'.
One client had an existing Debian setup on fairly common PC hardware. They wanted to transition to FC4, after hearing about how great it was....
...At that point I had to tell my client about the problems with Fedora Core 4.
Damn, it would suck to be your client. If it were my client, I would have advised them that "hearing about how great it was" isn't really a valid basis upon which to make business decisions. Secondly, if I'd known about "problems" with a particular disto, I wouldn't wait until the client started bitching to disclose them.
As with all of these discussions about distos, most of the arguments break down into: "I'm not familiar with the particular idiosyncracies of product X, and therefore product X is flawed. However, I am familiar with the particular idiosyncracies of product Y, and therefore product Y rules.
If one setup unattended or semi-unattended installs...Setup your own apt repository...use scripts to spray out updates as needed...Make sure the user's data is stored on network mounts, use LDAP...Kerberos for authentication and management, and enjoy.
:)
Yeah, that does sound pretty easy. I'm sure anyone could do it.
Seriously though I do understand your point, and I know that competent sysadmins can implement such solutions effectively. However just because an administrator can do so doesn't mean that it wouldn't be more efficient to use RHN to accomplish the same purpose. Also, it's not a given that every entity that wants to implement Linux has such a competent admin.
The Onion has a summary that is just as informative and much shorter.
It would be like an unreleased movie being nominated for the Oscars.
Your comment is dead on. I'd go so far as to say it's more like if they'd awarded King Kong the best picture Oscar last winter. I'd be shocked if more than a handful of these 'awards' weren't bought and paid for in the early planning stages of this fraud.
Oops. I meant, "Although your point is valid,..".
Your point is valid, I don't buy your argument. One could just as easily say something like, "My bank couldn't function without the regulations established by dirty politicians and sleazy lobbyists, and the services provided by my city government depend on inept local politicians. However just because I give my money to these scumbags doesn't make me part of the problem."
The GP wasn't making a point about our dependence on proprietary technologies, but rather about how ideals aren't something like a comfortable jacket that one puts on or takes off on a whim.
Redhat tends to be the whipping boy of the Linux enthusiasts on Slashdot
I agree, but one must keep in mind that this says far more about the character and maturity of Linux enthusiasts on Slashdot than it does about the RedHat distro.
Sorry to hear about your job troubles. I've worked at places where sysadmins were similarly regarded. Hopefully the Karma gods will soon bestow upon you a better gig than you had before.
I just posted a comment saying your posts were civil, but I hadn't read this comment at that point. Your replies to me were certainly civil, but perhaps you might have been well served by including your 'grumpy' disclaimer on the above post as well. There is a clear tone of hostility in your reply the the GP, and although the GP criticized your argument I didn't detect the same hostility you showed. I don't mean to cast the first (or second) stone though. I've said things when I was grumpy that would make your post look like a compliment. :)
Anyway, back to being (somewhat) on topic...
I'd like to hear from *one* person who's purchased RHEL because they actually need the support *and* has used it.
It depends on what you mean by support. If you mean having to call RH to have them (for instance) figure out how you botched your sendmail.mc, then I've never used that kind of support. I've also never used that form of support from MS, Apple, or any other OS vendor. However if you mean support in the sense of utilizing automatic updates or other features of RHN (for instance), then I've certainly had experiences where that was a significant factor in choosing to purchase RHEL. In this context the support was obviously in fact needed and used. I know that other distros provide a similar level of 'support' at a lower cost (or for free), but that doesn't imply that RHEL can never be the most appropriate choice of distro. I'm glad that RedHat has had success in their target market because they've continued to make extensive contributions to the OSS community.
Sorry, I'm particularly grumpy tonight. :)
No problem. Your posts haven't breached the borders of civility, and no offense was taken. In fact I understand your frustrations completely. I've encountered similar hassles with many a RedHat/Fedora installation. To be fair though I've also encountered similar bothers in SuSE, Debian, and other distros. I guess the general rule is that the more familiar I am with a distro, the less bothered I am by its particular idiosyncrasies.
No, it wasn't free to upgrade. I seem to recall there being some trivial discount...
My bad then. I was pretty sure that one of my friends who'd paid the $60/year fee before they announced the EOL had been offered the free upgrade to RHEL-WS. He happens to work at a university, so now he pays $25/year instead of $60. Needless to say he didn't feel as though he'd been screwed over, but it's certainly understandable that others did.
Perl 5.8 is installed, but apparently Time::HiRes is not
This is off-topic now, but Time::HiRes is an RHEL provided package. Try "# up2date perl-Time-HiRes".
Screw you, your year of support ends in April even if you just paid for a year a couple of months earlier. Feel free to buy our overpriced piece of crap...
I don't remember it being exactly like that. Although they clearly dropped support for RH9 in April, I thought they continued to honor the support agreements for their full terms if you upgraded to RHEL at no extra cost. I could be remembering things incorrectly though.
In any event RedHat seems to be doing OK selling their overpriced piece of crap version.
Global Warming is having a direct and measurable impact on the endangered pirate population
No no no, you've got it all wrong. It is the decrease in the number of pirates that is causing global warming. Don't you understand the difference between cause and effect?
Thank god nobody has figured out how to use Ajax to enable the community and synergize their collaborative efforts towards successification.
I must question the truthiness of that statement.
Considering the the lackluster reception of the original X-box in Japan, I think the figures might need to be adjusted to something like 3/6/1 for Europe, America, and Japan (resp.). One never knows though.
I didn't care so much for the movie either, but the book is a great work of historical fiction IMO. I read it in high school over 20 years ago, and I remember thinking that it taught me as much about the civil war / reconstruction period as any history book ever did.
I've seen many statements in this and other discussions that outright declare or at least imply that the GC is solidly in 'third place' in the three man race between GC, PS2, and Xbox. Now clearly the PS2 is in first place, but the last 'real' figures I recall seeing (a very long time ago) seemed to indicate that the race for 2nd between GC and Xbox was about even. Can anyone cite a reputable reference that can give an accurate picture of how things stand today? Preferably any such citation would be for worldwide sales figures (as opposed to US only figures). It's not that sales figures have anything to do with game/system quality and value, but I'm curious as to whether those who make such claims have a factual basis upon which to make them (or not). Such claims seem to be made frequently, but I don't recall seeing any recent authoritative citation.
He [Linus] believes that what he [Tridge] did wrong was knowingly break up the "agreement" that Linus and McVoy had only to see the protocol.
How can Tridge break an agreement between Linus and McVoy? I can see how Tridge could break an agreement between Tridge and Linus or between Tridge and McVoy. If I "agree" to let you sleep with my girlfriend, but she's not into it, has she broken our agreement?
Trigdell did not intend on making a compatible client (or any software for that matter).
This sort of contention ought only to be made if one has factual references upon which to support it. I understand that you are referencing Linus' arguments, and not making the arguments yourself. I'm just addressing them directly (although I happen to think they have already been addressed quite thoroughly).
I personally think that attempting to assign blame is akin to asking the wrong question. Not every story has a Hollywood ending, and if we just accept that we can pick up the pieces and move along. In fact I'm sure that many if not most of those talented enough to make contributions to kernel development have done just that (including of course, Linus). To conclude I again quote, "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition."