I didn't mean the israeli arabs were excluded because of general discrimination, I meant they were excluded from the army - in ways that are typically difficult to pin down - and later not serving in the army was used against them to discriminate. I found this link meanwhile Is excluded the right word?.
I agree that concerning homosexuals Israel is a step ahead of the US. That is why the argument is misleading. It suggests extrapolation. Concerning the treatment of Israeli Arabs Israel is way way behind. And they're much better off than those who live in the westbank, who are again much better off than people in Gaza.
I think I know what I'm saying when I emphasize the Israeli need to keep up appearances and to cover up every discrimination. The first person that needs to be fooled there is the Israeli Jew. After all, they want to be nice. Well, they are. But that is a very weak safeguard. It also makes it very difficult to tell them their country is doing things that are very wrong.
Maybe you should read that book of Susan Nathan's.
Aah, so not by law. I should be able to track that down. In that case it will be a diffuse system of requirements that in effect makes it near impossible for israeli arabs to join. With a few exceptions to put on display for all to see. Israeli Arabs need the income awfully bad you know. But there are enough middleclass israeli arabs to help you ignore that.
Tell you a secret, as soon as they say "even homosexuals are welcome", check the case of the israeli arabs. Look at this beach! There is even an area for homosexuals!
No, as far as I know muslims are forbidden by law to join the army, so most israeli arabs. For druze there is some kind of draft, a special case. I forgot about the Bedouins. Everybody forgets about the Bedouins. The orthodox christians can volunteer too.
One way in which the Israeli Arabs are discriminated against is, there are a lot of benefits you can't have if you haven't served in the army. It sounds so fair when they cut costs by taking away some benefit for those who didn't serve. After all, they earned it less...
I think it certainly is not just a matter of a minority of extremists. Rather the occupation and apartheid is deeply imprinted on the country(as is the need to obfuscate the reality). It is everywhere and it would be hard for any government to change direction.
One of the best sources to help understand that this is not just a matter of aggressive repression or tit-for-tat escalation is Jeff Halper from the Israeli Committee against House Demolitions (ICAHD). He explicitly speaks about Apartheid. But Apartheid exists in the laws, the bureaucracy, the everyday discrimination and so on. Halper focuses on the occupied territories but the israeli arabs are in a similar(though less uncomfortable) predicament. Halper compares them with the "colored" status.
So, if a new passport system is introduced I would ask is how will it discriminate against israeli arabs. Well, you could make the use of the new ID required for some services. Then, Israeli arabs would have problems (delays, extra permissions required,.. )getting their ID. Or they would have to go to another town to find an office with the new type of terminal. Or their ID wouldn't have some extra data that is required to get some permit. That's the kind of weird stuff I would expect and it emanates from the whole system.
since there is this background idea that Israel is "one our our guys", who should be able to understand if you talk about oppression and apartheid. Contrary to err - those others who aren't there yet.
It is a bit contentious to call Israel a democracy. A few years back a poll from the Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI) concluded: In sum, from the relative ranking across all the indicators, Israel may be classified as a formal democracy that has not yet succeeded in incorporating the characteristics of substantive democracy. Not exactly a suspect source.
In fact all Israeli identity cards till recently had to mention the ethnic/religious group. I shouldn't say "since the beginning" but at least it has been like that for a long time.
No, we haven't had that here since er, 1958 i guess.
Your parallel runs a bit thin though. I happen to know that Sony remained market leader for walkmans despite many others entering the field. Many made a profit. But if you'd used Philips as an example, they used to be in the habit to pioneer a new market(cd, dvd) and then have others run away with it.
It can happen that a tiny but viable market is killed by competitors entering the field but it can also happen that the competitors cause the market to grow.
In this case I think it is well possible that the pioneer does the effort opening up the market and then loses out against the next guy who muscles in.
Clinton admitted at other times that complying with the UN inspections wasn't going to make much difference. Saddam had to be removed. Clinton issued secret orders to have him killed. The Iraqis distrusted the UN inspections for very good reasons, they were heavily under US control.
The Israelis bombed the Osirak, which was a civilian reactor(and impossible to defend against attacks), but it could be put to dual use for making plutonium. Nuclear energy is important for the bigger oil producing countries but that's rarely emphasized. Right now, every oil barrel you have to use yourself is 140$ less of income. Having the dual use option is of course nice. Then after the bombing Saddam ironically decided he needed a hidden nuclear weapons program. It was advancing pretty well until Gulf War II cancelled it. After that things changed.
The official story doesn't have the cause and effect part, preferring the heroic interpretation instead, but I don't see how anyone can believe a story that lacks irony.
Apparently the yellowcake in the article dates from the Osirak. There should be similar stocks dating from 1991 too, under UN control as well. If i recall correctly the Iraqis even mined their own yellowcake, they have sulphurmines. Yellowcake is sulphur. The good stuff has a pinch of uranium.
If my memory serves me well, the bombing of the civilian dual use reactor Osirak triggered a hidden program for a bomb. Hidden means you can't use known stocks for it. The program was successful and close to making a working device before it got interrupted by the 1990 war. If i recall correctly Iraq could mine its own yellowcake too(sulphur with a pinch of uranium). After 1991 it was impossible to enrich uranium there.
Wrong. Bloggers who set up blogs to promote apostasy, promiscuity or "corruption" may be opened up to the joys of the death penalty in future, not anyone who's "blogging."
It's not forbidden yet to do that either. They're debating a draft bill. Looks like we're going to continue to be flooded with shit about Evil Iran for quite a while yet. Are there any wars being planned, incidentally?
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I didn't mean the israeli arabs were excluded because of general discrimination, I meant they were excluded from the army - in ways that are typically difficult to pin down - and later not serving in the army was used against them to discriminate.
I found this link meanwhile Is excluded the right word?.
I agree that concerning homosexuals Israel is a step ahead of the US. That is why the argument is misleading. It suggests extrapolation. Concerning the treatment of Israeli Arabs Israel is way way behind. And they're much better off than those who live in the westbank, who are again much better off than people in Gaza.
I think I know what I'm saying when I emphasize the Israeli need to keep up appearances and to cover up every discrimination. The first person that needs to be fooled there is the Israeli Jew. After all, they want to be nice. Well, they are. But that is a very weak safeguard. It also makes it very difficult to tell them their country is doing things that are very wrong.
Maybe you should read that book of Susan Nathan's.
Aah, so not by law. I should be able to track that down. In that case it will be a diffuse system of requirements that in effect makes it near impossible for israeli arabs to join. With a few exceptions to put on display for all to see. Israeli Arabs need the income awfully bad you know. But there are enough middleclass israeli arabs to help you ignore that.
Tell you a secret, as soon as they say "even homosexuals are welcome", check the case of the israeli arabs. Look at this beach! There is even an area for homosexuals!
No, as far as I know muslims are forbidden by law to join the army, so most israeli arabs. For druze there is some kind of draft, a special case. I forgot about the Bedouins. Everybody forgets about the Bedouins. The orthodox christians can volunteer too.
One way in which the Israeli Arabs are discriminated against is, there are a lot of benefits you can't have if you haven't served in the army. It sounds so fair when they cut costs by taking away some benefit for those who didn't serve. After all, they earned it less...
I think it certainly is not just a matter of a minority of extremists. Rather the occupation and apartheid is deeply imprinted on the country(as is the need to obfuscate the reality). It is everywhere and it would be hard for any government to change direction.
One of the best sources to help understand that this is not just a matter of aggressive repression or tit-for-tat escalation is Jeff Halper from the Israeli Committee against House Demolitions (ICAHD). He explicitly speaks about Apartheid. But Apartheid exists in the laws, the bureaucracy, the everyday discrimination and so on. Halper focuses on the occupied territories but the israeli arabs are in a similar(though less uncomfortable) predicament. Halper compares them with the "colored" status.
So, if a new passport system is introduced I would ask is how will it discriminate against israeli arabs. Well, you could make the use of the new ID required for some services. Then, Israeli arabs would have problems (delays, extra permissions required,.. )getting their ID. Or they would have to go to another town to find an office with the new type of terminal. Or their ID wouldn't have some extra data that is required to get some permit. That's the kind of weird stuff I would expect and it emanates from the whole system.
Israeli Arabs (who seldom serve in the army...
Israeli arabs can serve in the army? I didn't know that. Are you sure? Note, I don't mean druze.
since there is this background idea that Israel is "one our our guys", who should be able to understand if you talk about oppression and apartheid. Contrary to err - those others who aren't there yet.
I think that's a nice briefing :)
It is a bit contentious to call Israel a democracy. A few years back a poll from the Israeli Democracy Institute (IDI) concluded: In sum, from the relative ranking across all the indicators, Israel may be classified as a formal democracy that has not yet succeeded in incorporating the characteristics of substantive democracy. Not exactly a suspect source.
In fact all Israeli identity cards till recently had to mention the ethnic/religious group. I shouldn't say "since the beginning" but at least it has been like that for a long time.
It is not possible to be "just an israeli".
No, we haven't had that here since er, 1958 i guess.
Your parallel runs a bit thin though. I happen to know that Sony remained market leader for walkmans despite many others entering the field. Many made a profit. But if you'd used Philips as an example, they used to be in the habit to pioneer a new market(cd, dvd) and then have others run away with it.
It can happen that a tiny but viable market is killed by competitors entering the field but it can also happen that the competitors cause the market to grow.
In this case I think it is well possible that the pioneer does the effort opening up the market and then loses out against the next guy who muscles in.
I don't get it. The only thing I can see that killed the walkman is the demise of the cassette. Or maybe the introduction of the mp3 player.
It's just that the truth doesn't catch up with the myth.
What would a poll say about it now? And about Love Canal? Loveboat?
Now I'm going to sue you for causing me to sit down next to my chair.
America is going to invade Canada in a secret ploy to emigrate there.
And the the page from the comic where Nikopol encounters Johnelvisson
During the eighties the Iraqis mined uranium at the Akashat phosphate mine at Al Qaim.
hm, my memory is off. Yellowcake is not sulphur.
Clinton admitted at other times that complying with the UN inspections wasn't going to make much difference. Saddam had to be removed. Clinton issued secret orders to have him killed. The Iraqis distrusted the UN inspections for very good reasons, they were heavily under US control.
The Israelis bombed the Osirak, which was a civilian reactor(and impossible to defend against attacks), but it could be put to dual use for making plutonium. Nuclear energy is important for the bigger oil producing countries but that's rarely emphasized. Right now, every oil barrel you have to use yourself is 140$ less of income. Having the dual use option is of course nice. Then after the bombing Saddam ironically decided he needed a hidden nuclear weapons program. It was advancing pretty well until Gulf War II cancelled it. After that things changed.
The official story doesn't have the cause and effect part, preferring the heroic interpretation instead, but I don't see how anyone can believe a story that lacks irony.
Apparently the yellowcake in the article dates from the Osirak. There should be similar stocks dating from 1991 too, under UN control as well. If i recall correctly the Iraqis even mined their own yellowcake, they have sulphurmines. Yellowcake is sulphur. The good stuff has a pinch of uranium.
If my memory serves me well, the bombing of the civilian dual use reactor Osirak triggered a hidden program for a bomb. Hidden means you can't use known stocks for it. The program was successful and close to making a working device before it got interrupted by the 1990 war. If i recall correctly Iraq could mine its own yellowcake too(sulphur with a pinch of uranium). After 1991 it was impossible to enrich uranium there.
i misread that myself! sorry, nothing to see here, please move on...
Wrong. Bloggers who set up blogs to promote apostasy, promiscuity or "corruption" may be opened up to the joys of the death penalty in future, not anyone who's "blogging."
It's not forbidden yet to do that either. They're debating a draft bill. Looks like we're going to continue to be flooded with shit about Evil Iran for quite a while yet. Are there any wars being planned, incidentally?
Well don't tell that to the buyer then. I mean, did they?..
Anyway, the population is 3000 people.
Rub it in!