You know what I would like to see... is that Microsoft just pull all copies out of all of Europe and then let Europe experience the horror of trying to use Linux. Sure Linux is good for us nerds, but lets see how much of an uprise there is when the internet market in Europe takes a dive because the mom and pop shops can no longer use the ineternet to place orders and mom and dad can no longer buy their goods off line because they can't figure out how to launch the internet browser.
You guys all have Microsoft to thanks for the advancement of the internet on the masses and if you think anything else you are crazy and blind. The internet would still be something that is used in the back of corporations down in the basement if it wasn't for Microsoft giving everybody a PC that they could easily use.
Well this is pretty Null and Void because buinsessmen are always giving and acccepting presents from foreign dignitaries. So I this is a pretty null point for the argument.
I wonder who is going to win this battle. On one had you have Microsoft the multi-billion dollar software goliath. On the other hand you have a 17 year old kid that is a multi-hundred dollar one person development company. I personally think he should hold out for around 50,000 dollars since it means so much to Microsoft to have this domain name.
I have always wondered if these lawyers of Microsoft's are just free ranging lawyers that find causes and go out and fight them with the Microsoft pocket book. Or if there is some guy in Microsoft thinking up all these things to sue about.
It was actually standarized by both ECMA as well as ISO.
I don't know how representitive these numbers are.
on
2003: Year of Apache
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· Score: 1
How representitive are these numbers to actually results of people using Apache compared to those that have it installed on their machine and don't use it. I wish they would weed out all of the people that have it installed on dyndns domains or other domains that probably aren't really reflective of the common user (i.e. corporate or actual website hosters that get more than 10,000 hits per-month). Imagine all those Linux users that have apache installed on a broadband connection with out any kind of firewall or all those dorm users that want to install a HTTP server on their windows box but don't have a full access to a Windows Server. Both of these are very real examples because I not only did it myself but as a tech support at the college I saw a lot of this happening.
I just wish there were better numbers. I don't doubt that Apache is winning the HTTP Server War but I question their numbers by which they are winning.
Windows was a good choice for this test, because many of the development languages that were used in this test aren't really mature enough in *nix. (i.e..Net languages and arguably Java) A better test would be doing both tests on both OS's, because GCC is really more optimized twords Linux, while VC++ is more optimized twords Windows. I would have rather seen VC++ vs. Borderland C++, because that is a more real world business example.
You are so right about performance, but performance is really negated in furture applicatiosn because of Moores Law. I am not saying you should be a slopper programmer, but performance of a compiled byte code isn't really as critical as if you were running on a Windows 95 machine with a 100 mhz.
Plus assembly and low level C is now used in mission critical applications, not really in the business market any more because of the previous point on Moores law. But a missle guidence system is always going to need that low level perforance optimizations that only a human programmer can do.
>> Commodity, standards based software will be the winner in the end. So what you are telling me is that the EMCA is not longer a standards based organization? Hmmm... You might want to let the rest of the world in on that, because everybody has pretty much created the same JavaScript language support across all browsers and since that is no longer a standard we better go create a new scripting language for the web.
You can't actually beleive anything you have just said. I can give you a crap load of fortune 500 companies that are switching to.Net. I can even give you a defense contract that is doing satilight signal processing in.Net. In cluding a "little" company called Novel that bought out a company so that they would have their.Net product that can be used on *nix OS's.
Get a life and stop pushing your aging propoganda.
I have to agree with most things that you brought up because they are valid. But really with a test like this compile time doesn't matter, because programs only need to be compiled once. And if there is a comple seconds between compile time or a couple mintues that doens't really matter because if both programs get used for a year straight with out a recompile the minute or two extra that it takes is really null and void.
Plus a compile time would just be a representive of the compiler used to compile the compiler and how much optimization the compiler might be doing.
Actually the way that they compared them is totally valid. They took simular operations and ran time checks on them. And if what you are saying is true C would always be better because it is closer to the processor than the extra layer managed code adds on. But this shows some discrepency in that old logic.
This is a totally valid test because they aren't testing anything that is deeper than runtime. A more biased test would have been to test memory usuage because C uses pointers and doesn't rely on a GC so it would always have lower memory usuage.
According to this Visual C++ is faster than GCC? But what really surpised me was that a managed language was actually faster than a compiled language. Because look at Java 1.4 it kicked arss in all but a couple categories. Also what I don't understand is why VB.Net got such a high time for IO operations when all the.Net languages are compiling to the same IL. Also why didn't they try compiling VC++ into managed code too.
I would really like to see the code they used for some of these tests because I am sure some of the operations can use some further optimization.
But what really surprised me is that some of the managed code.net kicked butt over GCC.
How can that be, everybody has been complaining about.Net for a while now about how slow it is, and how slow managed code is. Are there any other sources that do simular comparisons?
I don't know how accurate this article is but I am glad to see.Net and Microsoft getting some high scores because it will be a good article to point some of my compiler geeks too. Because there modo so far has been GCC kicks arss even against VC++.
Why did VB do so bad on IO compared to the other.Net benchmarks? They were pretty much equal up until the IO benchmarks? Any chance of getting the code published that was used to test this?
So how many of the eWeek people do you think saw the code to MS SQL Server or Oracal SQL? I am hightly doubting that they even were able to get to the front door to knock on either of the doors to ask if they could see the code. I mean this just looks like pure propoganda to anybody that has half a brain and keeps up with the industry.
Don't get me wrong I love MySQL, but these types of articles are just as bad as the people saying that MacOS X isn't that secure because of the less users on it. Or the guy claiming that MS is way superior in the Internet Server world. These type of articles are just there to cause controversy and seperate us as a community Mac/Windows/Linux combined.
I am not putting any merrit in this article and neither should you.
And who says Microsoft doesn't innovate. I mean this looks pretty cool and the graphic even looks cooler. I am hoping this will get out in the market soon. The one thing that I didn't understand is weather you send the message to a newsgroup/forum/e-mail address and some interface picks up on it and displays it.
I have always wanted to see a combination of all 3 because they really provide the same functionality and can be seemlessly combined with out much effort on the standards part. I envision where all the data gets stored on a Newsgroup type server and then the forum has an interface to it and if there is a reply to the forum an e-mail get sent. So then when you reply back to the e-mail it is the newsgroup address, and that is the full loop. In addition each process can work backwords.
What do you guys think. I am not supporting Microsoft, but the idea is a great one.
Real media player comes with AOL, and AOL install files are preinstalled on every Windows XP machine. It comes part of the default setup on most PC's. I guess every failing compnay wants a peice of a compnay that is doing well.
This is really off topic but has anybody noticed that/. has changed the starting score from 1 to 0. I am just curious what the reasoning behind this is? There is probably a good reason I am just curious.
Okay I read the paragraph slightly wrong. I guess they are disabling the 3rd party DLL that crashes IE. But it would be also nice if this was reported back incase so Microsoft could send it to the product developer.
Welcome to slashdot, where people ignore inconvenient facts that would otherwise get in the way of a good bit of FUD.
----
No if you read the above statement, and knew a little about the current process. They currently collect the computers state at the crash of the program including all the DLL's in memory, and then send it off to MS. This is very had to analize since everybodies computer differs.
Now they are actually going to try and pin-point the DLL so that Microsoft can say hey look at that xxx.dll is causing this crash 99% of the time. Then they can alert their own product team or go and alert the company that produces the DLL.
Yeah they have actually done this for Longhorn. If you noticed the article yesterday on/., they have created a core team whos responsibility is security as well as the other usually Kernel stuff.
Yeah this is one of the features that I am most excited about. All the upgrades they are going to do the IE. Pop up blocker is key. I can't wait for all these adware companies to start filing law suits at Microsoft, saying they are stifling their business. I hope Microsoft kicks their arss. I am glad they finally see this ActiveX problem and are going to fix it. I hate all those spyware Gator ads that pop up asking me to install them. There are very few ActiveX programs that need to be installed in the browser, actually the only one I can think of is Flash. And that is not even nessasary.
Slashdot Mirror
You know what I would like to see ... is that Microsoft just pull all copies out of all of Europe and then let Europe experience the horror of trying to use Linux. Sure Linux is good for us nerds, but lets see how much of an uprise there is when the internet market in Europe takes a dive because the mom and pop shops can no longer use the ineternet to place orders and mom and dad can no longer buy their goods off line because they can't figure out how to launch the internet browser.
You guys all have Microsoft to thanks for the advancement of the internet on the masses and if you think anything else you are crazy and blind. The internet would still be something that is used in the back of corporations down in the basement if it wasn't for Microsoft giving everybody a PC that they could easily use.
Well this is pretty Null and Void because buinsessmen are always giving and acccepting presents from foreign dignitaries. So I this is a pretty null point for the argument.
The link again is http://www.v-entertainment.com/downloads/vlovedete ctor.zip because it got broken up for some reason when I first submitted it.
Does anybody have a mirror for the following file. http://www.v-entertainment.com/downloads/vlovedete ctor.zip I wanted to try it out on my Pocket-PC.
I wonder who is going to win this battle. On one had you have Microsoft the multi-billion dollar software goliath. On the other hand you have a 17 year old kid that is a multi-hundred dollar one person development company. I personally think he should hold out for around 50,000 dollars since it means so much to Microsoft to have this domain name.
I have always wondered if these lawyers of Microsoft's are just free ranging lawyers that find causes and go out and fight them with the Microsoft pocket book. Or if there is some guy in Microsoft thinking up all these things to sue about.
It was actually standarized by both ECMA as well as ISO.
How representitive are these numbers to actually results of people using Apache compared to those that have it installed on their machine and don't use it. I wish they would weed out all of the people that have it installed on dyndns domains or other domains that probably aren't really reflective of the common user (i.e. corporate or actual website hosters that get more than 10,000 hits per-month). Imagine all those Linux users that have apache installed on a broadband connection with out any kind of firewall or all those dorm users that want to install a HTTP server on their windows box but don't have a full access to a Windows Server. Both of these are very real examples because I not only did it myself but as a tech support at the college I saw a lot of this happening.
I just wish there were better numbers. I don't doubt that Apache is winning the HTTP Server War but I question their numbers by which they are winning.
Windows was a good choice for this test, because many of the development languages that were used in this test aren't really mature enough in *nix. (i.e. .Net languages and arguably Java) A better test would be doing both tests on both OS's, because GCC is really more optimized twords Linux, while VC++ is more optimized twords Windows. I would have rather seen VC++ vs. Borderland C++, because that is a more real world business example.
You are so right about performance, but performance is really negated in furture applicatiosn because of Moores Law. I am not saying you should be a slopper programmer, but performance of a compiled byte code isn't really as critical as if you were running on a Windows 95 machine with a 100 mhz.
Plus assembly and low level C is now used in mission critical applications, not really in the business market any more because of the previous point on Moores law. But a missle guidence system is always going to need that low level perforance optimizations that only a human programmer can do.
okay I admit bad example. But that still doesn't negate the point of C# runs under linux using the Mono compiler.
By the way I am a C#/Java developer.
.Net. I can even give you a defense contract that is doing satilight signal processing in .Net. In cluding a "little" company called Novel that bought out a company so that they would have their .Net product that can be used on *nix OS's.
>> Commodity, standards based software will be the winner in the end.
So what you are telling me is that the EMCA is not longer a standards based organization? Hmmm... You might want to let the rest of the world in on that, because everybody has pretty much created the same JavaScript language support across all browsers and since that is no longer a standard we better go create a new scripting language for the web.
You can't actually beleive anything you have just said. I can give you a crap load of fortune 500 companies that are switching to
Get a life and stop pushing your aging propoganda.
>> Oh wait! C# only runs on one operating system. Can you name any other development languages that only run on ONE OS, boys and girls? Neither can I.
Oh wait what about Mono? Boy there goes that question trying to spread FUD around?
I can also name a couple what about COBOL when was the last time your wrote a COBOL program for Windows??
I have to agree with most things that you brought up because they are valid. But really with a test like this compile time doesn't matter, because programs only need to be compiled once. And if there is a comple seconds between compile time or a couple mintues that doens't really matter because if both programs get used for a year straight with out a recompile the minute or two extra that it takes is really null and void.
Plus a compile time would just be a representive of the compiler used to compile the compiler and how much optimization the compiler might be doing.
Actually the way that they compared them is totally valid. They took simular operations and ran time checks on them. And if what you are saying is true C would always be better because it is closer to the processor than the extra layer managed code adds on. But this shows some discrepency in that old logic.
This is a totally valid test because they aren't testing anything that is deeper than runtime. A more biased test would have been to test memory usuage because C uses pointers and doesn't rely on a GC so it would always have lower memory usuage.
According to this Visual C++ is faster than GCC? But what really surpised me was that a managed language was actually faster than a compiled language. Because look at Java 1.4 it kicked arss in all but a couple categories. Also what I don't understand is why VB.Net got such a high time for IO operations when all the .Net languages are compiling to the same IL. Also why didn't they try compiling VC++ into managed code too.
.net kicked butt over GCC.
.Net for a while now about how slow it is, and how slow managed code is. Are there any other sources that do simular comparisons?
.Net and Microsoft getting some high scores because it will be a good article to point some of my compiler geeks too. Because there modo so far has been GCC kicks arss even against VC++.
I would really like to see the code they used for some of these tests because I am sure some of the operations can use some further optimization.
But what really surprised me is that some of the managed code
How can that be, everybody has been complaining about
I don't know how accurate this article is but I am glad to see
Why did VB do so bad on IO compared to the other .Net benchmarks? They were pretty much equal up until the IO benchmarks? Any chance of getting the code published that was used to test this?
You do realize the price from the TI-83 Plus is a book and not the actual calculator?
So how many of the eWeek people do you think saw the code to MS SQL Server or Oracal SQL? I am hightly doubting that they even were able to get to the front door to knock on either of the doors to ask if they could see the code. I mean this just looks like pure propoganda to anybody that has half a brain and keeps up with the industry.
Don't get me wrong I love MySQL, but these types of articles are just as bad as the people saying that MacOS X isn't that secure because of the less users on it. Or the guy claiming that MS is way superior in the Internet Server world. These type of articles are just there to cause controversy and seperate us as a community Mac/Windows/Linux combined.
I am not putting any merrit in this article and neither should you.
And who says Microsoft doesn't innovate. I mean this looks pretty cool and the graphic even looks cooler. I am hoping this will get out in the market soon. The one thing that I didn't understand is weather you send the message to a newsgroup/forum/e-mail address and some interface picks up on it and displays it.
I have always wanted to see a combination of all 3 because they really provide the same functionality and can be seemlessly combined with out much effort on the standards part. I envision where all the data gets stored on a Newsgroup type server and then the forum has an interface to it and if there is a reply to the forum an e-mail get sent. So then when you reply back to the e-mail it is the newsgroup address, and that is the full loop. In addition each process can work backwords.
What do you guys think. I am not supporting Microsoft, but the idea is a great one.
Real media player comes with AOL, and AOL install files are preinstalled on every Windows XP machine. It comes part of the default setup on most PC's. I guess every failing compnay wants a peice of a compnay that is doing well.
This is really off topic but has anybody noticed that /. has changed the starting score from 1 to 0. I am just curious what the reasoning behind this is? There is probably a good reason I am just curious.
Okay I read the paragraph slightly wrong. I guess they are disabling the 3rd party DLL that crashes IE. But it would be also nice if this was reported back incase so Microsoft could send it to the product developer.
Welcome to slashdot, where people ignore inconvenient facts that would otherwise get in the way of a good bit of FUD.
----
No if you read the above statement, and knew a little about the current process. They currently collect the computers state at the crash of the program including all the DLL's in memory, and then send it off to MS. This is very had to analize since everybodies computer differs.
Now they are actually going to try and pin-point the DLL so that Microsoft can say hey look at that xxx.dll is causing this crash 99% of the time. Then they can alert their own product team or go and alert the company that produces the DLL.
Yeah they have actually done this for Longhorn. If you noticed the article yesterday on /., they have created a core team whos responsibility is security as well as the other usually Kernel stuff.
Yeah this is one of the features that I am most excited about. All the upgrades they are going to do the IE. Pop up blocker is key. I can't wait for all these adware companies to start filing law suits at Microsoft, saying they are stifling their business. I hope Microsoft kicks their arss. I am glad they finally see this ActiveX problem and are going to fix it. I hate all those spyware Gator ads that pop up asking me to install them. There are very few ActiveX programs that need to be installed in the browser, actually the only one I can think of is Flash. And that is not even nessasary.