Of course, this thread would not be complete without a comment about 1 button mice and floppies.
Hello? You can get a floppy for your Mac. It's called "optional". Get used to it. The last time I used a floppy on my mac was 9 months ago. I don't own any software that I use which comes on floppies. Why make something standard that 90% of the users don't need? You don't, you make it an option for those who need it. Geez, it's not hard to understand...
When I bought my PC, it came with a 2 button mouse, but I wanted a 3 button so I could use the middle button in netscape to open links in a new window. So I bought a 3 button mouse.
When I bought my Mac, it came with a 1 button mouse, but I wanted a 3 button mouse so I could use the right button to bring up contextual menu panels and program the middle button to do other cool tricks. So I bought a 3 button mouse.
It's a nice little server, easy configuration, seems to work quite well. It's also an RTSP server, so I would guess it is independant of media and players, right?
Everyone go try it out: http://www.apple.com/publicsource
Have you asked anyone who has used it? Everyone I know who has done Openstep development would be happy to share with you. My list? I wrote a TextEditor with search and replace, multiple undos/redos, selectable font size and style, spell checking, cut and paste, and drag and drop integration with 7 lines of code in under 4 minutes.
What's wrong with the Darwin Streaming Server? I've been running it on linux for about 3 months, and the latest release even has binaries available for linux and solaris. It's open source, and works on a well documented protocal (RTSP), as well as now being able to stream over HTTP. The only downside now is that you have to "touch" movies to stream them, which means you have to buy quicktime pro or another product that can hint movies (an open source project to be?).
I'm also pretty sure it is independant of quicktime and media format since it's just a streaming protocol, but don't hold me to it.
Actually, they had a lot of trouble... Apple has said before that their development schedule was about doubled when they started supporting windows because it took so much longer to releases working. This is not to say one is better, but Linux and Windows programming are a lot more alike than either to Macintosh. Macintosh programming is just wierd... The whole way MacOS handles resources and memory management, and the whole API just make it a pain to support both Mac and Windows. Every time I looked at writing a MacOS app I just got confused... It's hard for me to shift out of using certain libc routines that are available on both unix and windows, and hard to figure out the MacOS API. I've been sticking to OSX apps since OpenStep is much more familiar to unix programming than MacOS...
How about the same way they do now? The vast majority of people download the free version of qt4. Then you can buy the deluxe version (which has some really cool features for $30). Why not the same on linux? I doubt apple makes much money off qt player now anyway, the real interest is in getting their player to be the most widely used. That helps to sell their creation tools (like iMovie and Final Cut Pro) and I'm sure in the future they will have a more advances pro version of their streaming server.
I would hope Apple sees that. After all, i was pretty impressed by how short a time it took for people to port Darwin Streaming Server to Linux, and apple incorperated those changes and made it available pretty quick.
But quicktime is a bit trickier. The streaming server was built upon an OSX base, so it was largely UNIX compatible anyway, minus some threading issues. But the quicktime player is a fairly hardcore macos app, there isn't even a decent player for OSX yet... I'm betting it wouldn't be quite so easy to strip away the gui and port it.
I'm rambling now... Anyway, I'd like to see it too, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to follow their current strategy of releasing the core of the apps.
Because they can. When CD's came out, and before that, no one ever thought that people would be able to rip the cd into some digital format, and freely distribute it around the world over a vast "internet" with millions of people on it. This was in the days of 1200 baud modems and 300 mb hard drives, it wasn't feasible. Today though, everyone knows we have the technology to do such things, so they decided to encrypt DVD's. The only reason cd's aren't encrypted is because no one had thought to do it back then and it's too late to start now. Believe me, the record industry wants to stop this type of thing as much as the film industry, they just got caught with their pants down.
This is pre alpha. That means there is probably still a lot of debugging code in it. Debugging code slows things waaaay down. Don't doom it before it's done, you can't judge a product by it's pre alpha quality.
Go find some screenshots of NeXT, you'll see that it looks almost exactly like the NeXT file browser cleaned up. If it looks like IE5, then perhaps MS stole it from NeXT, who had it long before...
I've been testing this for a little while now, except the version I have is called BeOS.;)
You've never used OpenStep, have you? Based more on SmallTalk than anything if you think they ripped off Be. Cocoa (aka openstep) has also been around a lot longer than Be, so think about who ripped off who here. Besides, the OpenStep environment and tools are much more advanced than Be.
The windowing system is completely different. However, GNUStep apps should be extremely portable. Hopefully GNUStep will take off, OpenStep is so cool. There is also an free XServer that runs on OSX Server now, but it has some issues.
You can boot into OSX Server without the gui. I don't remember the command, but you type something for the username field in the login dialog and it drops you down to just a shell.
OSX has only mach threads. You either have to make a wrapper so that apps that call on pthreads get translated to cthreads, or you have to use something like gnu pth with pthreads emulation. I've tried both without much difference in performance, either way it seemed a bit slower than it should be. I believe with OSX consumer and the next release of server, apple is including pthread support by doing a wrapper to mach threads.
I like the functionality too, that's why I have a 3 button trackball on my linux box and my mac... I said 1 button can do everything a 3 button can, I never said it wasn't nice to have more silly boy...
I don't get the sky is green thingy, but then again I can't even count to 4 so it don't matter much:)
Easy to spot the linux folk. Note that you will objec to the idea that one mouse button is all you need because you most likely use an OS whose interface is designed to work well with 3 buttons. MacOS, on the other hand, was designed to work with one button, and it does so fine. It's quite silly to think that because you need three buttons under one OS you will also under others. If you run linux on a mac, however, getting a three button mouse is a good idea...
Well, if you want to run linux apps, there's a reason... Most linux apps will run on OSX, but if they use Posix threads, OSX has to emulate that which will slow it down a hair. You might also want to use X. XNext has been ported to OSXServer, but isn't overly stable in my playing. Oh, don't forget the camp who will use linux because non-free software is a mortal sin.
I think if you have a mac, OSX is a clear winner, mainly cuz no matter what they say, all the mac linux distros do wierd things on my powerbook... Maybe a desktop is better, but MacOS is too damn pretty and well thought out to leave for long...
Every OS has it's merit. I don't use linux on my daily desktop machine (because netscape is so ugly and there is no decent gui mail client) and I don't use MacOS on my server... Use what fits your needs.
That's what Cocoa is, just a new name for Obj-C. It isn't going anywhere, how could they get rid of the best development environment ever created? Now if only they would support GNUStep to help them along...
So if it bugs you, go buy a three button mouse... It's not like the mac is designed to completely disable extra buttons if you have a mouse with them... I use a three button trackball, needed for linux. In MacOS, the extra buttons are pointless. As apple decided (correctly) long ago, you can do it all with 1 button, and much easier.
With OSX, apps should be cross platform without a problem, thanks to openstep. Carbon is around to just transition developers and to make old MacOS apps run without a complete rewrite. New apps will hopefully be written with Cocoa (aka openstep). OpenStep was designed from the start to be completely cross platform. The frameworks that make it up are available for windows, and mostly available on unix (with GNUStep, which has quite some work left sadly). In theory any MacOSX app should be able to run under any platform with an Obj-C compiler (such as gcc) and an openstep runtime environment with the proper frameworks (such as gnustep and windows cocoa foundation). I would think it would be in apple's best interest to promote openstep on other OS's, so I really hope they will open source it, or at least support GNUStep. I'd also like to see WebScript (an interperated version of Objective-C) opened up, but I'm not sure if they would, not that they'd have anything to loose...
A closet full of sawed off shotguns, ammo, and twinkies will get you quite far in a disaster. Don't accept imitatins, twinkies are the only food guaranteed to be fresh long after you aren't.
PHP4 is only under the PHP License, which is essentially the apache license. GPL was dropped to make it easier to use/distribute PHP for commercial purposes. Some people just like to spread FUD. PHP4 is "free". The confusion comes from the fact that the Zend engine, which is integrates into PHP4, is licensed under the QPL. However, this only applies to Zend as a standalone product, withing PHP4 all you have is the PHP License and no worries.
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Of course, this thread would not be complete without a comment about 1 button mice and floppies.
Hello? You can get a floppy for your Mac. It's called "optional". Get used to it. The last time I used a floppy on my mac was 9 months ago. I don't own any software that I use which comes on floppies. Why make something standard that 90% of the users don't need? You don't, you make it an option for those who need it. Geez, it's not hard to understand...
When I bought my PC, it came with a 2 button mouse, but I wanted a 3 button so I could use the middle button in netscape to open links in a new window. So I bought a 3 button mouse.
When I bought my Mac, it came with a 1 button mouse, but I wanted a 3 button mouse so I could use the right button to bring up contextual menu panels and program the middle button to do other cool tricks. So I bought a 3 button mouse.
It's a nice little server, easy configuration, seems to work quite well. It's also an RTSP server, so I would guess it is independant of media and players, right?
Everyone go try it out: http://www.apple.com/publicsource
Have you asked anyone who has used it? Everyone I know who has done Openstep development would be happy to share with you. My list? I wrote a TextEditor with search and replace, multiple undos/redos, selectable font size and style, spell checking, cut and paste, and drag and drop integration with 7 lines of code in under 4 minutes.
Show me somewhere else I can do that.
What's wrong with the Darwin Streaming Server? I've been running it on linux for about 3 months, and the latest release even has binaries available for linux and solaris. It's open source, and works on a well documented protocal (RTSP), as well as now being able to stream over HTTP. The only downside now is that you have to "touch" movies to stream them, which means you have to buy quicktime pro or another product that can hint movies (an open source project to be?).
I'm also pretty sure it is independant of quicktime and media format since it's just a streaming protocol, but don't hold me to it.
Actually, they had a lot of trouble... Apple has said before that their development schedule was about doubled when they started supporting windows because it took so much longer to releases working. This is not to say one is better, but Linux and Windows programming are a lot more alike than either to Macintosh. Macintosh programming is just wierd... The whole way MacOS handles resources and memory management, and the whole API just make it a pain to support both Mac and Windows. Every time I looked at writing a MacOS app I just got confused... It's hard for me to shift out of using certain libc routines that are available on both unix and windows, and hard to figure out the MacOS API. I've been sticking to OSX apps since OpenStep is much more familiar to unix programming than MacOS...
I can go sign as many times as I want as Robin Miller...
How about the same way they do now? The vast majority of people download the free version of qt4. Then you can buy the deluxe version (which has some really cool features for $30). Why not the same on linux? I doubt apple makes much money off qt player now anyway, the real interest is in getting their player to be the most widely used. That helps to sell their creation tools (like iMovie and Final Cut Pro) and I'm sure in the future they will have a more advances pro version of their streaming server.
I would hope Apple sees that. After all, i was pretty impressed by how short a time it took for people to port Darwin Streaming Server to Linux, and apple incorperated those changes and made it available pretty quick.
But quicktime is a bit trickier. The streaming server was built upon an OSX base, so it was largely UNIX compatible anyway, minus some threading issues. But the quicktime player is a fairly hardcore macos app, there isn't even a decent player for OSX yet... I'm betting it wouldn't be quite so easy to strip away the gui and port it.
I'm rambling now... Anyway, I'd like to see it too, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to follow their current strategy of releasing the core of the apps.
GNUStep isn't a desktop, you're thinking of window maker...
Because they can. When CD's came out, and before that, no one ever thought that people would be able to rip the cd into some digital format, and freely distribute it around the world over a vast "internet" with millions of people on it. This was in the days of 1200 baud modems and 300 mb hard drives, it wasn't feasible. Today though, everyone knows we have the technology to do such things, so they decided to encrypt DVD's. The only reason cd's aren't encrypted is because no one had thought to do it back then and it's too late to start now. Believe me, the record industry wants to stop this type of thing as much as the film industry, they just got caught with their pants down.
This is pre alpha. That means there is probably still a lot of debugging code in it. Debugging code slows things waaaay down. Don't doom it before it's done, you can't judge a product by it's pre alpha quality.
Go find some screenshots of NeXT, you'll see that it looks almost exactly like the NeXT file browser cleaned up. If it looks like IE5, then perhaps MS stole it from NeXT, who had it long before...
I've been testing this for a little while now, except the version I have is called BeOS.
You've never used OpenStep, have you? Based more on SmallTalk than anything if you think they ripped off Be. Cocoa (aka openstep) has also been around a lot longer than Be, so think about who ripped off who here. Besides, the OpenStep environment and tools are much more advanced than Be.
The windowing system is completely different. However, GNUStep apps should be extremely portable. Hopefully GNUStep will take off, OpenStep is so cool. There is also an free XServer that runs on OSX Server now, but it has some issues.
You can boot into OSX Server without the gui. I don't remember the command, but you type something for the username field in the login dialog and it drops you down to just a shell.
OSX has only mach threads. You either have to make a wrapper so that apps that call on pthreads get translated to cthreads, or you have to use something like gnu pth with pthreads emulation. I've tried both without much difference in performance, either way it seemed a bit slower than it should be. I believe with OSX consumer and the next release of server, apple is including pthread support by doing a wrapper to mach threads.
1...2...3...7...er...9....er....3.14?
shit, you're right.
I like the functionality too, that's why I have a 3 button trackball on my linux box and my mac... I said 1 button can do everything a 3 button can, I never said it wasn't nice to have more silly boy...
I don't get the sky is green thingy, but then again I can't even count to 4 so it don't matter much
Easy to spot the linux folk. Note that you will objec to the idea that one mouse button is all you need because you most likely use an OS whose interface is designed to work well with 3 buttons. MacOS, on the other hand, was designed to work with one button, and it does so fine. It's quite silly to think that because you need three buttons under one OS you will also under others. If you run linux on a mac, however, getting a three button mouse is a good idea...
Well, if you want to run linux apps, there's a reason... Most linux apps will run on OSX, but if they use Posix threads, OSX has to emulate that which will slow it down a hair. You might also want to use X. XNext has been ported to OSXServer, but isn't overly stable in my playing. Oh, don't forget the camp who will use linux because non-free software is a mortal sin.
I think if you have a mac, OSX is a clear winner, mainly cuz no matter what they say, all the mac linux distros do wierd things on my powerbook... Maybe a desktop is better, but MacOS is too damn pretty and well thought out to leave for long...
Every OS has it's merit. I don't use linux on my daily desktop machine (because netscape is so ugly and there is no decent gui mail client) and I don't use MacOS on my server... Use what fits your needs.
That's what Cocoa is, just a new name for Obj-C. It isn't going anywhere, how could they get rid of the best development environment ever created? Now if only they would support GNUStep to help them along...
So if it bugs you, go buy a three button mouse... It's not like the mac is designed to completely disable extra buttons if you have a mouse with them... I use a three button trackball, needed for linux. In MacOS, the extra buttons are pointless. As apple decided (correctly) long ago, you can do it all with 1 button, and much easier.
With OSX, apps should be cross platform without a problem, thanks to openstep. Carbon is around to just transition developers and to make old MacOS apps run without a complete rewrite. New apps will hopefully be written with Cocoa (aka openstep). OpenStep was designed from the start to be completely cross platform. The frameworks that make it up are available for windows, and mostly available on unix (with GNUStep, which has quite some work left sadly). In theory any MacOSX app should be able to run under any platform with an Obj-C compiler (such as gcc) and an openstep runtime environment with the proper frameworks (such as gnustep and windows cocoa foundation). I would think it would be in apple's best interest to promote openstep on other OS's, so I really hope they will open source it, or at least support GNUStep. I'd also like to see WebScript (an interperated version of Objective-C) opened up, but I'm not sure if they would, not that they'd have anything to loose...
A closet full of sawed off shotguns, ammo, and twinkies will get you quite far in a disaster. Don't accept imitatins, twinkies are the only food guaranteed to be fresh long after you aren't.
PHP4 is only under the PHP License, which is essentially the apache license. GPL was dropped to make it easier to use/distribute PHP for commercial purposes. Some people just like to spread FUD. PHP4 is "free". The confusion comes from the fact that the Zend engine, which is integrates into PHP4, is licensed under the QPL. However, this only applies to Zend as a standalone product, withing PHP4 all you have is the PHP License and no worries.