I agree but I think you miss one point. Programmers are doing stuff for free now. The thing is they're tending to do what they want not what other's want. So if we make it democratic then a programmer who wants to code a SCSI driver for his old machine, might instead be told no that's not important the people want you to work on USB support. The programmer doesn't have USB on his machine, so instead quits the group. This could be a downside to this idea. I think.
-cpd
Sorry I live in DE. This event's been going on for quite a while. They've had to move it in recent years because the machine were starting to fire pumpkins near a church (and or Rt 1). The thing does get insane though with lots of people, lots of beer, duct tape, heavy machinery, and people who are way too serious about hurling pumpkins into tomarrow.
As for those concerned about people starving, realize these are left over pumpkins, that probably couldn't be shipped anywhere in time to be of use.
My friends and I really want to enter this. One of these years we will. Not to win mind you. Just to have some fun.
OK so you were slammed. This means that MCI lost money to them. Call MCI and let MCI know that AT&T was stealing their money. Probably will get no response, but hey it might.
-cpd
However how would you feel if you walk in to buy a book. Say a romance novel as a present for someone so its not your usual purchase. The person in front of you buys the same book and you see them get charged $8.95. You buy yours and are told it'll be $10.25. Are you gonna be annoyed? Their changing prices per customer, not per store.
I wonder if it now makes sense to make buying collectives. So you and a group of friends agree to set up Amazon users that each buy only 1 type of book. So that you can pool you discounts. Just a thought.
-cpd
You mean the "Mom" hatch? The little spot so that the seamen could take the moms on the tour and go "See Mom if the ship goes down I hide in that hatch and I can just swim to the surface." Knowing damn well they'll never make it.
-cpd
What are you talking about? There's no mention of Debian in any of the articles. Yes the last article was about Debian. But that hsa nothing to do with this one. Or is the AOL release only for Debian? If so where did you find this out?
-cpd
OK only resonding to point 1)
But what's the probability of flipping a coin 100 times and only getting heads? I doubt it's 50/50. I'm very bad with probabilities though. Yes I agree with the base statement that previous history has no influence on future events (in truely random events). If I have five heads in a row though, and the probability of me getting another head is still 50%, what was the probability at the begining that I'd get 6 heads in a row? Wouldn't it be like 1/12? I honestly am not real sure on any of this. Anyone know?
-cpd
They can throw hundreds of lawyers. Millions of dollars, tons of resources against napster, etc. We can throw hundereds, of thousands of people at the problem. Start you own servers. If everybody started a server they would have to shut down everybody. Look at it like speeding. Yes its illegal, however it generally accepted because it would be absolutely impossible to enforce it 100%. So some speeding is tollerated. You are allowed to go by a cop at maybe 5mph over, do 10mph over though and you're pushing it. If there we so many servers out there that it became absolutely impossible for the RIAA to stop every single one then they might just give up. Kinda the reverse of what they're doing. "We'll spend millions of $$$ because they can't compete with us and afford all the legal fees." Fine you want to play that way... We will set up millions of servers and see if you can keep up with it. -cpd
OK so it seems almost impossible to keep those who run websites, and those who advertise on them, completely in the dark about your goings on. Yes you can run a junkbuster, but this merely filters out the ones you know about. What if we went the other way? Would a system that continuously jumps sites make the data gathered useless? The basic idea would be that there would be two browsers running on your machine, 1 doing actuall stuff, the other hitting random sites. The random browser would only connect when the connection was idle. Have it never display anything it gets, just get it and pipe it to/dev/null. This way when doubleclick collects their data on you they would see you have been hitting a really wide variety of sites. Like homedepot.com, playboy.com, marthastewart.com, aol.com/~bob, slashdot.org, linux.com, microsoft.com, dumbentia.org. They would actually have no idea what sites you actually visited, and which were the random junk, ok if you kept hitting a site then they might figure it out, but you could have the second browser hit a set of random sites repeatedly, everytime you log in. I dunno its an idea. Think of it in the same way as Jam-Echelon. -cpd
And the US has how many times Vietnam's population? Besides (and I'm stretching my geography here) they're fighting over Kashmir correct? Well that's a relatively small plot o' land. Not like India could put their entire population there to fight it out. As master Yoda says "Judge me by my size will you?" (or something close to that) -cpd
"(2) use of such Documents from this Server is for informational and non-commercial or personal use only and will not be copied or posted on any network computer or broadcast in any media"
But isn't Samba non-commercial? Couldn't most open source projects be considered non-commercial? OK so Red Hat probably can't develop software to use this, but others can.
They claim that they would be innundated by mail and couldn't handle the response so will not even put up an email address. Or a phone number for customer service, or subscription problems or sign up.
This really bugged me when I suddenly started getting a subscription. I hadn't signed up for it. So I wrote them a note asking them to stop sending me the magazine. They did, but not until they sent a second notice on the payment.
Ya know this would be pretty attractive to me. But it wouldn't need to be only on retoring old homes. Any community could do it. Here in Delaware most of the homes are packed into seperate developments. These usually have weird rules like "No satelite dishes", but this is something that a community could actually provide that would be worthwile. Having said that though, I'm not willing to move to St Louis for it. -cpd
OK so it may not be an even battle, but the last paragraph in the article talked about actors, producers, etc wanting this, and having the money for it. Yet the studios don't want it. Well at least the actors have the money to fight for it. Maybe someday we'll see it. -cpd
Manufacturing. Merely as an example. We currently use VMS to handle an entire warehouse. Everything from automated forklifts, to temperature controlled areas, to 100 ft cranes, to weighing of material. For us a move from VMS to UNIX (any form) would cost millions and take a long time. A real long time. And personally I couldn't gaurentee the same level of capabilities and/or reliability. (note though I have not been asked to look into the feasability) Besides which it does have (by my experience) more reliability than our UNIX boxes. Our computer room got 'hot' one day. Real hot. The UNIX boxen all shut down. Not real nicely either. Almost lost data. The vaxen just kept right on going. Never missed a beat. Dispite a backup tape melting inside one. It really didn't care. Nor did we. There were more of them in a nice redundant rollover cluster. Just replaced the tape and did another backup. -cpd
Go to Borland's site. Read what this thing does. When you use it C++ code is created. You do not write C++ code with this. I would imagine that this license applies to the code it generates. They are copyrighting their code generator. This is kinda similar to say MFC being copyrighted but giving permission to freely redistribute. C++Builder has code in itself to do X. You want to do X in your program. It adds the code for X. Kinda like using VB adding a component but instead of just getting this visual dodad you get actual code. They are maintaining that you can redistribute this is binary form So you can compile something in C++Builder and distribute the source. However developing it entirely in C++Builder is a no-no. Because it would use Borland's code in the final output of your project. If you released your source free and clear at that point you would be distributing Borland's source code. Remember this is not just a compiler. -cpd
OK so they claim that Slashdot needs to remove copyrighted material? Yet if Slashdot does this then they are responsible for any copyrighted material. So... Let's post the spec on one of Microsoft's sites. If they then remove it, then they are claiming editorial responsibility for any information posted there. Then we post anything we want under their servers (I'm thinking mp3s here) and they could be held responsible for it. So we'd have the RIAA suing M$ for the removal of this stuff that we'd keep posting. And there's nothing quite like 2 large corporations suing each other silly. Especially if its posted on NBC's news site who would be more likely to claim its within the rights of a news orginization to do so... Like I said... silly idea. -cpd
Option 1: Realease early often and show the world all the work you are doing. Including the dumb stupid moronic bugs. Get flamed for putting out such low quality work.
Option 2: Release periodically when you have a nice stable point. Make sure as many bugs are out as possible. Get flamed for not being open source.
Oh this sounds like fun. Yes I'll admit the hypocritical part of this (with them preaching the realease often part) sounds odd. But this is really their choice. And its all still compliant with GPL. Released in a timely fashion. Yes it'd be nice to see a CVS repository and a tar ball release, but that's tough.
The last set of questions about morals was a very good one. I believe this points directly to RMS' beliefs and why so many agree/disagree with him. I think (I may be wrong) that RMS has a very strong definition in his own mind of what right and wrong are and these beliefs revolve around a "do good unto others" belief. I believe others (Eric Raymond perhaps) have their own views on this along the lines of "do no harm unto others". Mind you "harm" and "good" are definitions dependant on each individual. The points seem to be the same but lead to markedly different approaches to life. I believe these are age old philosophical points. While, in relative terms, using these arguments in software is new, the points raised are old. I don't think these arguments will ever be settled. And I think a student of philosophy would do a great deal of good to contibute to this discussion. I am not a philosopher, but I can recognize the need for one in here.
Let me step into devil's advocate mode. The same could've been said of calculators. When electronic calculators came out they already had slide rules. These did the same job faster and easier and had more uses. Calculators were slow, cumbersome and ugly. Why should they have invested in calculators, they didn't accomplish anything new or better. Yes they seem kinda stuck. And somewhat limited in the current state. However so were computers when they only used machine code. Or only used vacum tubes. Yet the technology evolved and overcame these limitations and eventually we have what we have today. Most inventions are just better ways of doing things we already know how to do. We already knew how to get from point A to point B - walk or horse - before cars were invented. And when cars were invented they couldn't move any faster than cars. Yes it may be hype, but it may also eventually lead to some useful things. Why block that path? -cpd
Gee I wonder why? From McMaster-Carr: 12"x12"x1/8" Acetal Copolymer = $10.74 (in black) 12"x12"x1/8" Titanium = $364.90 Funny how that basic material cost factors in. -cpd
Slashdot Mirror
I agree but I think you miss one point. Programmers are doing stuff for free now. The thing is they're tending to do what they want not what other's want. So if we make it democratic then a programmer who wants to code a SCSI driver for his old machine, might instead be told no that's not important the people want you to work on USB support. The programmer doesn't have USB on his machine, so instead quits the group. This could be a downside to this idea. I think.
-cpd
Sorry I live in DE. This event's been going on for quite a while. They've had to move it in recent years because the machine were starting to fire pumpkins near a church (and or Rt 1). The thing does get insane though with lots of people, lots of beer, duct tape, heavy machinery, and people who are way too serious about hurling pumpkins into tomarrow.
As for those concerned about people starving, realize these are left over pumpkins, that probably couldn't be shipped anywhere in time to be of use.
My friends and I really want to enter this. One of these years we will. Not to win mind you. Just to have some fun.
-cpd
OK so you were slammed. This means that MCI lost money to them. Call MCI and let MCI know that AT&T was stealing their money. Probably will get no response, but hey it might.
-cpd
No then we'd just "Blame Canada!"
Sorry too easy.
-cpd
Except they released it a little while ago.
As previously seen on slashdot.
However how would you feel if you walk in to buy a book. Say a romance novel as a present for someone so its not your usual purchase. The person in front of you buys the same book and you see them get charged $8.95. You buy yours and are told it'll be $10.25. Are you gonna be annoyed? Their changing prices per customer, not per store.
I wonder if it now makes sense to make buying collectives. So you and a group of friends agree to set up Amazon users that each buy only 1 type of book. So that you can pool you discounts. Just a thought.
-cpd
You mean the "Mom" hatch? The little spot so that the seamen could take the moms on the tour and go "See Mom if the ship goes down I hide in that hatch and I can just swim to the surface." Knowing damn well they'll never make it.
-cpd
Yes its possible. That's how mine is currently set up.
-cpd
What are you talking about? There's no mention of Debian in any of the articles. Yes the last article was about Debian. But that hsa nothing to do with this one. Or is the AOL release only for Debian? If so where did you find this out?
-cpd
OK only resonding to point 1)
But what's the probability of flipping a coin 100 times and only getting heads? I doubt it's 50/50. I'm very bad with probabilities though. Yes I agree with the base statement that previous history has no influence on future events (in truely random events). If I have five heads in a row though, and the probability of me getting another head is still 50%, what was the probability at the begining that I'd get 6 heads in a row? Wouldn't it be like 1/12? I honestly am not real sure on any of this. Anyone know?
-cpd
Yes but if they came up with a method that can store 3D data in a smaller space than 2D data isn't that fairly impressive itself?
-cpd
They can throw hundreds of lawyers. Millions of dollars, tons of resources against napster, etc. We can throw hundereds, of thousands of people at the problem. Start you own servers. If everybody started a server they would have to shut down everybody. Look at it like speeding. Yes its illegal, however it generally accepted because it would be absolutely impossible to enforce it 100%. So some speeding is tollerated. You are allowed to go by a cop at maybe 5mph over, do 10mph over though and you're pushing it.
If there we so many servers out there that it became absolutely impossible for the RIAA to stop every single one then they might just give up. Kinda the reverse of what they're doing. "We'll spend millions of $$$ because they can't compete with us and afford all the legal fees." Fine you want to play that way... We will set up millions of servers and see if you can keep up with it.
-cpd
OK so it seems almost impossible to keep those who run websites, and those who advertise on them, completely in the dark about your goings on. Yes you can run a junkbuster, but this merely filters out the ones you know about. What if we went the other way? Would a system that continuously jumps sites make the data gathered useless? The basic idea would be that there would be two browsers running on your machine, 1 doing actuall stuff, the other hitting random sites. The random browser would only connect when the connection was idle. Have it never display anything it gets, just get it and pipe it to /dev/null. This way when doubleclick collects their data on you they would see you have been hitting a really wide variety of sites. Like homedepot.com, playboy.com, marthastewart.com, aol.com/~bob, slashdot.org, linux.com, microsoft.com, dumbentia.org. They would actually have no idea what sites you actually visited, and which were the random junk, ok if you kept hitting a site then they might figure it out, but you could have the second browser hit a set of random sites repeatedly, everytime you log in. I dunno its an idea.
Think of it in the same way as Jam-Echelon.
-cpd
And the US has how many times Vietnam's population? Besides (and I'm stretching my geography here) they're fighting over Kashmir correct? Well that's a relatively small plot o' land. Not like India could put their entire population there to fight it out.
As master Yoda says "Judge me by my size will you?" (or something close to that)
-cpd
OK so they make a point of saying
"(2) use of such Documents from this Server is for informational and non-commercial or personal use only and will not be copied or posted on any network computer or broadcast in any media"
But isn't Samba non-commercial? Couldn't most open source projects be considered non-commercial? OK so Red Hat probably can't develop software to use this, but others can.
Or at least that's my thoughts.
-cpd
They claim that they would be innundated by mail and couldn't handle the response so will not even put up an email address. Or a phone number for customer service, or subscription problems or sign up.
This really bugged me when I suddenly started getting a subscription. I hadn't signed up for it. So I wrote them a note asking them to stop sending me the magazine. They did, but not until they sent a second notice on the payment.
Grumble mumble.
-cpd
Ya know this would be pretty attractive to me. But it wouldn't need to be only on retoring old homes. Any community could do it. Here in Delaware most of the homes are packed into seperate developments. These usually have weird rules like "No satelite dishes", but this is something that a community could actually provide that would be worthwile.
Having said that though, I'm not willing to move to St Louis for it.
-cpd
OK so it may not be an even battle, but the last paragraph in the article talked about actors, producers, etc wanting this, and having the money for it. Yet the studios don't want it. Well at least the actors have the money to fight for it. Maybe someday we'll see it.
-cpd
Manufacturing. Merely as an example. We currently use VMS to handle an entire warehouse. Everything from automated forklifts, to temperature controlled areas, to 100 ft cranes, to weighing of material. For us a move from VMS to UNIX (any form) would cost millions and take a long time. A real long time. And personally I couldn't gaurentee the same level of capabilities and/or reliability. (note though I have not been asked to look into the feasability)
Besides which it does have (by my experience) more reliability than our UNIX boxes. Our computer room got 'hot' one day. Real hot. The UNIX boxen all shut down. Not real nicely either. Almost lost data. The vaxen just kept right on going. Never missed a beat. Dispite a backup tape melting inside one. It really didn't care. Nor did we. There were more of them in a nice redundant rollover cluster. Just replaced the tape and did another backup.
-cpd
Go to Borland's site. Read what this thing does. When you use it C++ code is created. You do not write C++ code with this. I would imagine that this license applies to the code it generates. They are copyrighting their code generator. This is kinda similar to say MFC being copyrighted but giving permission to freely redistribute.
C++Builder has code in itself to do X. You want to do X in your program. It adds the code for X. Kinda like using VB adding a component but instead of just getting this visual dodad you get actual code. They are maintaining that you can redistribute this is binary form
So you can compile something in C++Builder and distribute the source. However developing it entirely in C++Builder is a no-no. Because it would use Borland's code in the final output of your project. If you released your source free and clear at that point you would be distributing Borland's source code.
Remember this is not just a compiler.
-cpd
OK so they claim that Slashdot needs to remove copyrighted material? Yet if Slashdot does this then they are responsible for any copyrighted material. So...
Let's post the spec on one of Microsoft's sites. If they then remove it, then they are claiming editorial responsibility for any information posted there. Then we post anything we want under their servers (I'm thinking mp3s here) and they could be held responsible for it. So we'd have the RIAA suing M$ for the removal of this stuff that we'd keep posting. And there's nothing quite like 2 large corporations suing each other silly. Especially if its posted on NBC's news site who would be more likely to claim its within the rights of a news orginization to do so...
Like I said... silly idea.
-cpd
Option 1: Realease early often and show the world all the work you are doing. Including the dumb stupid moronic bugs. Get flamed for putting out such low quality work.
Option 2: Release periodically when you have a nice stable point. Make sure as many bugs are out as possible. Get flamed for not being open source.
Oh this sounds like fun. Yes I'll admit the hypocritical part of this (with them preaching the realease often part) sounds odd. But this is really their choice. And its all still compliant with GPL. Released in a timely fashion. Yes it'd be nice to see a CVS repository and a tar ball release, but that's tough.
-cpd
The last set of questions about morals was a very good one. I believe this points directly to RMS' beliefs and why so many agree/disagree with him. I think (I may be wrong) that RMS has a very strong definition in his own mind of what right and wrong are and these beliefs revolve around a "do good unto others" belief. I believe others (Eric Raymond perhaps) have their own views on this along the lines of "do no harm unto others". Mind you "harm" and "good" are definitions dependant on each individual. The points seem to be the same but lead to markedly different approaches to life. I believe these are age old philosophical points. While, in relative terms, using these arguments in software is new, the points raised are old. I don't think these arguments will ever be settled. And I think a student of philosophy would do a great deal of good to contibute to this discussion. I am not a philosopher, but I can recognize the need for one in here.
Let me step into devil's advocate mode.
The same could've been said of calculators. When electronic calculators came out they already had slide rules. These did the same job faster and easier and had more uses. Calculators were slow, cumbersome and ugly. Why should they have invested in calculators, they didn't accomplish anything new or better.
Yes they seem kinda stuck. And somewhat limited in the current state. However so were computers when they only used machine code. Or only used vacum tubes. Yet the technology evolved and overcame these limitations and eventually we have what we have today.
Most inventions are just better ways of doing things we already know how to do. We already knew how to get from point A to point B - walk or horse - before cars were invented. And when cars were invented they couldn't move any faster than cars.
Yes it may be hype, but it may also eventually lead to some useful things. Why block that path?
-cpd
Gee I wonder why?
From McMaster-Carr:
12"x12"x1/8" Acetal Copolymer = $10.74 (in black)
12"x12"x1/8" Titanium = $364.90
Funny how that basic material cost factors in.
-cpd